3 ways to engage our desires with Krishna 2 – Desiring Krishna and desiring for Krishna
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Being here today and we'll talk about a theme from the Bhagavatam and this theme I'll put here is engaging our desires with Krishna. How can we, what are the various ways in which we can engage our desires? We will try to discuss that in due course. So let's start with this verse.
This is Bhagavatam 2, 3, 10. So can you recite this. Okay, we'll do it responsibly.
Moksha comes to become liberated from all desires. So one who is desireless, one who is desireful, one who is desiring free desirelessness. So all kinds of people.
Udharadhi. Udharadhi is one who is large minded, large hearted. In all these cases what does a person do or should do? Teevrena bhakti yogena.
Intensely practice bhakti. Yajeta purusham param. Worship the supreme person.
So there are two different things. There is intensity of the practice of bhakti. You can just keep the Sanskrit words if you don't mind.
There is the intensity of practice and there is the purity of practice. So this verse is telling that even if there is no purity, try to have intensity. Teevrena.
Practice intensely, seriously and by this one will grow. So we will go over this verse. Can you just go back up? So broadly we could say based on this akamah, sarvakamah, mokshakamah.
So we have all kinds of desires. We have no desires or we desire to be at the level of no desires. So this if we apply in a devotional context, we can say we engage our desires with Krishna in three broad ways.
Can you have like a slide or something where you can just do it or a page will also do. Basically we may desire from Krishna. We may desire Krishna and we may desire for Krishna.
So our desires may engage with Krishna in three different ways. It's just like here we could treat it like any other relationship. We meet somebody, we desire something from them.
Can you do this for me? Can you do that? If you are meeting some VIP, we meet some celebrities, can you give me an autograph? So we desire something from them. But sometimes we may desire them. I just want to be with you, such a nice person.
I want your association, I want a relationship with you. Desire that person. And then if the desire goes deeper, then we desire for them.
That means I want to get this for you. So, broadly speaking, these are the three ways. Now a kama means the person has no desires in this world.
And so this is, okay. Okay, you got it. Thank you.
So now if we have in often when we talk about spiritual life, many people have this idea that, oh, maybe I'll have to give up or lose so many material things in order to become spiritual. And at one level, it is true. But it is not that simple.
More important than in spiritual life, more important than what we do is why we do it. So we could say, let me explain these three levels. First desiring Krishna, desire for Krishna, desire from Krishna.
And then I'll talk about the modalities, the specifics a little bit more afterwards. So now, most people, they come to God because they need something. This same thing, the desire from Krishna is what Krishna talks about in the Bhagavad Gita, 7th chapter, 16th verse.
This four kinds of people come to me. The four kinds of people are those who are distressed, those who are distressed, those who are distressed, and those who are distressed. Often, distress is like a common denominator.
Krishna does talk about those who are, does anyone know the four categories of people Krishna talks about? Inquisitive, desirer of wealth, distressed, and those seeking knowledge, knowledge seekers or those who are knowers. So now Krishna does talk about four categories. Especially if you see in today's world, even if somebody is desiring wealth, they'll probably go to a money lender.
They won't go to God. In the Bible, they had this prayer, O father thou art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, give us our daily bread. So now, in today's world, most people are not worried about bread.
They may be worried about butter. So the basic necessities of life, they are not, at least in the Western world, we could say, people are not in chronic anxiety about that. So if we have certain needs, if we need wealth, to supply that, people think, yeah, my government will provide me, social welfare programs will provide me, the social justice initiatives, whatever, I can work, whatever.
So people may not want to go to God, there has to be certain level of existential angst, certain level of distress, which makes one look for something higher. So that's why I said, the four categories of people, there is some denominator of distress is there, which makes them look higher. Even if you're inquisitive, we might, there are so many things, just do a Google search, there are so many things which you can know about.
Why would anyone want to know about transcendence necessarily? About an ultimate reality? So there has to be some kind of dissatisfaction with our present reality. Only when there is this dissatisfaction with present reality, then we will move towards the higher reality. So Krishna says that anyone who comes to him, this word which is there, udar dhi, now in the seventh chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, also Krishna uses the word similar udara.
In, I talk this is 7.16, 7.17, he says that, first 7.16, this is four categories of people who come to him and the next, he says udara sarva evaite, jnanitvaatmaiva me matam, no, 7.18, he says all of them are broad hearted, udara sarva evaite. So udara dhi was the word over here, udara is over here. Now the word udara, it can mean various things, it basically means large hearted, charitable, generous.
So now it's interesting, Krishna is referring to people who come to him as generous. Now generally, somebody who is giving something, those are the people whom we call as generous. If somebody is asking something, why would we consider them generous? We call them needy.
Krishna, you are not generous, you are needy. So Ramanujacharya is a prominent commentator in the Bhakti tradition, in the Shri Sampradaya, and he gives a beautiful import to this. He says that, God is the supreme controller, and he controls everything, but there is one thing which he can't control, that is our heart.
He is eager, desirous, hungry for the love of our heart, but that is something which he cannot get simply by his controllership. We have to voluntarily offer it to him, and if we don't offer it to him, he feels bereaved, he feels deprived, because he wants to have a loving relationship with every one of us, and therefore a soul who has not been having a loving relationship with him, if that soul approaches him, and starts worshipping him, starts praying to him, now even if it is for some utilitarian purposes, praying so that he can get something from God, but still that person is praying to God, that person is offering some devotion to God, so Krishna feels so grateful, that Krishna says to such a person, Oh, you are so charitable, you are so charitable, you are offering your heart's love to me, so that is udara, charitable, so Krishna considers anyone who worships him, anyone who offers some devotion to him as a charitable person, and thus he is appreciative, he is grateful. At the same time, Krishna doesn't just want a small part of our heart, he wants our whole heart, and that is the journey, the spiritual journey, we offer a part of our heart first to Krishna, and gradually we move on till we offer our whole heart.
So initially, we all will start with desiring from Krishna, we have some trouble in the world, trouble in our lives, and maybe God will help me, and then we desire from God, that's how we start, and Bhagavatam says it's fine, even if you are that level, if you are udarati, if you are charitable, if you are large-minded, large-hearted, then you will connect with God, and when we desire from Krishna, the connection develops, and as that connection grows, as it becomes purified, then something starts happening over there, that when we connect with Krishna for any reason, at that point, that connection itself gives us some peace, some strength, some joy. Now, there are two ways, two possibilities broadly over here, yeah you can go back, can we make a big screen, desiring from Krishna, just make a big screen, so if we are, say desiring from Krishna is here, and desiring Krishna is here, so gradually what happens, we come to Krishna, because we are in some need, but we start connecting with him, and once we connect with him, at that time, we start sensing that actually this connection itself, I have trouble, I come to a temple, or I go to a church, go to some sacred place, and I pray over there, and just going to that place, feeling the vibes of that place, makes me peaceful. Now, if I am completely consumed by that desire, then I am approaching God solely for getting that desire fulfilled, getting the distress removed, but if our consciousness is a little bit open, then we start experiencing that just being in the presence of Krishna itself is fulfilling, it's pacifying, it's empowering, and then we start moving from that desiring from Krishna to desiring Krishna, and critical for this, for this journey to move from desire from Krishna to desire Krishna himself, critical over there is the association of devotees, those who are desiring Krishna, our desires are often triangular, what do I mean by triangular, generally we may think of desire as linear, say, would any of you like to tell what is your favorite dessert, there's no guarantee that we'll provide it, anyone, yes, vegan ice cream, oh thank you, so suppose you see a vegan ice cream, now in that case, as soon as you see it, the object is here, we are here, and then a desire comes, that's a linear desire, the object and the person, it's linear desire, now many desires are linear, but not all desires are linear, there are some desires which are triangular, do any of you know what is a baklava, anyone, okay, many of you, so about 5-6 years ago, when I first went to Australia, I had never heard of a baklava, so I went to, one person invited me, you want to come here, okay, thank you, so they invited me for their food, prasad at their house, and then when we went, they said, for dessert we have got baklava, would you like to have, because I had never heard of a baklava, and the name baklava is not very sweet, baklava, okay, I said, maybe later, and then there was another devotee who had come with me also, so he said, yeah, give me, then he took it, and he was eating it, and with closed eyes, he was in samadhi, then I saw him, and I said, give me one also, so what happened, just seeing or hearing about the baklava did not create the desire, there was no linear desire, but seeing somebody else enjoying the baklava, it was a triangular desire, so many of our desires, especially desires for good things, virtuous things, uplifting things, spiritual things, they may not grow linearly, say for example, if you consider the Bhagavad Gita or the Bhagavatam, a few of us might just see the Bhagavad Gita, and I want to read this book, I want to know what is there in this book, but those people, the bibliophiles themselves are rare, but spiritual bibliophiles are even rarer, so somebody just falls in love with a book is not so common, but if we meet somebody who is in love with the Bhagavad Gita, and they just recite the verses, get fresh insights, and they are so enlivened by their wisdom, I want to know what is there in this book, and then we get the desire to read it, so many of our desires for uplifting things are not just linear, they are triangular, so that's why to go from the stage of desiring from Krishna to desiring Krishna, critical is those, is the association of those who are desiring Krishna, so it is because from the perspective of our physical senses, there are so many attractive things in the world, okay, Krishna looks attractive, but we may not have such a strong desire come up for it, but when we associate with those who are strongly desiring Krishna, then our desire becomes strong, so that's why there is in the technical terminology that Rupa Goswami uses for describing the levels of devotees, the first level devotee he says is Kanishta Adhikari, Kanishta Adhikari is one who desires, who worships Krishna and desires from Krishna, as if you could say in simple, the first level devotee, the second level here, the second level is higher, sometimes terminology goes up, the first level, second level is lower sometimes, first class, third class, second class, so here it is higher, the first level is lower, second level is higher, so in the second level devotee is Madhyama Adhikari, and the key difference between the first level and second level is appreciation of devotees, how much does one value those who are devoted to God, then by that association our spirituality, our devotion becomes stabler, so when we are desiring from Krishna, at that time also we are connected with him and that is good, but the problem is there are two possibilities, we desire from Krishna and sometimes the desire is fulfilled and sometimes the desire is not fulfilled, if we desire from Krishna and the desire is not fulfilled, then what is the point of worshipping Krishna, why should I do this, and we might just go away, or if we desire from Krishna, we might, thank you Krishna, goodbye, you know till next time, goodbye, so we might not necessarily develop a relationship with Krishna, it is like some people might treat God like a doctor, whenever you have some health issue, you go to a doctor, it is not daily you go and meet the doctor, unless you want to develop a relationship with the doctor, it is a different situation, but the idea is that when we are desiring from Krishna, then we may not go to the next stage of desiring Krishna, that will happen when there is the association of devotees, so this journey of desiring from Krishna to desiring Krishna, that is demonstrated in the life of Dhruva Maharaj, Dhruva as a prince, he was a small boy, but he was grievously insulted and he said, I was not allowed to sit on the lap of my father who was sitting on this throne of the kingdom, he said, I will get a throne bigger than my father's throne, so what to speak on sitting on the lap, I would sit on a throne bigger than his throne, and then his mother told him, you go to Krishna and worship him, he is the only person who can fulfill your desires and he took that earnestly and he went into the forest and at that time he met Narad Muni and it was Narad Muni who first deterred him, I will come to that part of the dialogue with Narad Muni and Dhruva a little later, but here the point is Narad Muni guided him to engage in bhakti and he engaged in what this verse says, very intense practice of bhakti, when he did that, by that practice the lord became pleased and the lord appeared before him and when he appeared before him at that time he realized the lord is so beautiful, that having his, beholding, being in his presence, beholding his beauty, being absorbed in his remembrance is so relishable that why do I need anything else, so that's the time he started desiring Krishna and he said, my dear lord, I don't want this kingdom, he says, I wanted a kingdom and that's why I perform great austerities, but you, oh lord, are like a precious jewel, that is not seen, that is elusive even for the gods, but now I have got you and the kingdom that I was seeking is like a broken piece of glass, so why should I want this, I just have you, my dear lord, and I'm satisfied, I do not want anything else, so because of that practice of bhakti, he got the, not just the sight of Krishna, but he got the experience of Krishna and that experience of Krishna was so enriching that he felt I don't need anything else, but interestingly the lord told him, take the kingdom and then the lord gives him instructions, how he can rule the kingdom in a way that is devotional, so he went from desiring from Krishna to desiring Krishna and in the Prahlad pastime also, Prahlad says, I don't want a kingdom, but the lord gives him the kingdom, so he says, you rule for me, so then you can say he went to the third level of desiring for God, that desire, the rulership of the kingdom, actually he had no desire, but if you're ruling something, then you have to take up the responsibility, so desire for me, on my behalf, Arjuna fights the Kurukshetra war for Krishna's sake, Shrila Prabhupada travelled across the world to build the Krishna consciousness movement for Krishna's sake, so he went, but that is desire for Krishna, which I'll come to again later, but desiring from God can lead to desiring for God, desiring God, if we have the association and in the association we experience Krishna in an enriching way and then gradually our desires grow or rather our desire gets purified, so this was the first part of my talk and the essence was that, whatever way we come for Krishna, desiring from Krishna, we come to desiring Krishna, that is how we move from say, impure or conditional devotional service to pure or unconditional devotional service, so any questions or comments at this stage? Okay, so now, if we move on to the next part, that when we are in the world, because we function in the world, so we desire for Krishna, say for example, we might want to have a bigger place, so that we can have bigger programs, we might want, if we are studying scripture, we might desire a better memory, so that we can memorize more and more verses, if we are conducting a program, we might desire that more people come for the program, so that Krishna's message can reach more people, so when we are practicing bhakti at our level, we actually exist, our consciousness exists at all the three levels, so desiring Krishna is like just direct devotional service, just hear about him, just chant his name, sing his glories and be absorbed in him, but we want to do that, but we can't sustain ourselves at that level and even if we could sustain ourselves at that level, now we wouldn't be an agent of change in the world, because in the world, if you have to act, then we have to desire something in the world, so now for all of us, sometimes we desire Krishna and sometimes we desire for Krishna, sometimes we desire from Krishna, now any categorization that we do, in concept it is simple, because categories are conceptual, they are mental constructs, in real life it's not so simple, so what does that mean that when I am desiring for Krishna and when I am desiring from Krishna, it's not so easy to figure that out, so if I am giving a talk and I want a lot of people to come say for the talk, now is it so that I am giving the talk or is it because it's about Krishna, let more people hear about Krishna, now unless I am very careful or introspective, it may be very difficult to know that, so Prabhupada, let's look at two examples, there's once a devotee was doing kirtan and Prabhupada came into that temple at the same time and Prabhupada just patted him on the back and said, nice kirtan, and now get that praise from the spiritual master, it was wonderful, but then he said, let me pour out my heart, he said, I may not get the opportunity, again he says, but Prabhupada, sometimes I feel proud, and Prabhupada again patted him on the back, what's wrong with that, and walked away, what's wrong with that, he said, pride is, Krishna says, it's a demoniac quality, it keeps us away from Krishna, he'll say so many things like that, and it is true, but it's not just that simple, when Prabhupada says, what's wrong with that, what he means is, that, like some devotees may say that, they may have some talents, some of us may have, but if I use that talent for Krishna, they may say, okay, if I sing very well, if I speak very well, then I may become proud, and then I become proud, I may go away from Krishna because of that, therefore, I will not use this, I will not desire for Krishna also to become a very good singer, become a very good speaker, become a good manager, anything, if I desire to become good, then I may become proud, I want to stay humble, yes, it's good, we want to stay humble, but actually to think that I may become proud, may itself be a sign of pride, why, because if I think I may become proud, I'm assuming that I am right now not proud, I'm assuming that I'm not proud right now, and it could be that I'm humble right now, or it could be that I am proud right now, but I have no reason to be proud, it's like, say, somebody is fasting because they want to purify themselves, then, yeah, that's self-control, that will lead to purification, but if somebody is fasting because they have no food, well, okay, that may not lead to any purification, so it's, if you want to exercise your self-control, if the situation is forced upon someone, then there's not really much self-control, you have no options, so if we voluntarily choose a situation, yes, I can eat food, but I'll not eat food, then that's some self-control, so if there is nothing that can make me proud, there's nothing, I have not done anything special for which I can be proud, and then I say I am humble, well, that may not be humility, so the mood of a devotee is that I, when I'm trying to do something for Krishna, now, I might be doing it for myself also, how do I know that, it's very difficult to know, but the key thing is that if you at least understand this classification, what I'm desiring for Krishna, what I'm desiring from Krishna, and there's desiring Krishna, this broad classification we understand, then if we take up some service, and we start working on that service, we say I'm doing this for Krishna, but it may not be fully for Krishna, it may be for ourselves also, I also want to be, I also want to be well-known, I want to be known like this, I want to be known like that, that's okay, okay in the sense that we can't wish away that desire, so when Prabhupada said it's all right, that means that the pride is already there in our heart, and the way the pride will go away is not by suppression of the talent, a suppression of the talent will not take the pride away, I can sing well, but I won't sing well, why, because I don't want to become proud, but then what will happen, if somebody else sings well, and then that same pride will come out in an ugly form, as envy, so you know somebody comes and says, this devotee sings so nicely, and immediately I may say, have you seen how much he eats, it might be unrelated, but it is, I can't tolerate their glory, so I have to pull them down somehow, so what will happen is, that if the pride is there in the heart, it won't just go away on its own, so the cure for the pride is not suppression of talent, but purification of intent, so I do it, and I slowly become purified, or somebody sings for Krishna, and they may not be singing for Krishna, they may be singing for themselves also, but gradually, what will happen is, we will start recognizing that, well, people praise me, okay, that's good, I feel good by that, but it comes and it goes, but if I sing about Krishna, and I become absorbed in that, that absorption lasts much longer, that absorption is much more fulfilling, so I had this experience, quite a few times, but one time I remember, one time I had prepared for a class very well, every single point, this point will flow into this point, this point will flow into this point, and then I went for the class, and I thought it was one of my best classes ever given, and after that, the class got over, and everybody just walked away, not one person came to talk with me, not one person appreciated the class, and I became agitated by that, and then I started thinking, hey, wait a minute, even if, I found this quite a useful trick, that when the mind gets agitated, when something is not working, then you just turn it around, and say, okay, if this had worked perfectly, what would have happened? Okay, if this had worked perfectly, okay, somebody had come and appreciated the class, I have got that experience also, sometimes people come and appreciate the class, okay, it's there for a few moments, and then I feel happy, I try to learn what people appreciate, that also helps me to speak accordingly in future, in a way that connects with people, but then it's over, so it would have been there for just a few moments, but then I started thinking that when I was preparing for that class, I was fully absorbed, when I was giving that class, I was absorbed, so it struck me that the absorption that in Krishna that we have when we are preparing and delivering a class, that is far more lasting, that is far more fulfilling than whatever appreciation we might get after giving the class, now if I had not given that class, then I would never have got that realization, so the cure for pride is not suppression of talent, I will not do this because I'll become proud, but it is purification of intent, we do it, sometimes we may doing it partially for ourselves, but we will get that realization, and then we'll move toward Krishna, so the important thing is again, whether you have free from desire or you are full of desires, just connect with Krishna, just connect with Krishna, and if you connect with Krishna, everything else will follow through that connection, of course, we need to be cautious, so that means if I'm desiring Krishna or at least I'm aspiring for that, I want to connect with Krishna, I want to attain Krishna, at that time, we will be offered many other things, now when we are offered other things, what do we do at that time, so okay, we might come to Krishna for Krishna's sake, but then after we become a little more senior devotees, then maybe devotees, other devotees start respecting us, they start offering obeisances to us, and then one devotee was telling me, when I come to the temple, my mind is so dirty, so I don't look at the Lord to offer obeisances, I look at people, how many people are offering obeisances to me, oh, of course, it was his humility, but if the mind is so crazy, that we may come for Krishna, but we may get diverted to other things, of course, we also want to have reciprocation with devotees, but the point is we have to be alert, we may get something from Krishna, but we have to be careful that that doesn't take us away from Krishna, Anand Vrindavan Champu is a very beautiful book written by Kavi Karnapur, which describes the pastimes of Krishna in Vrindavan, that means the first 40 chapters of the 10th canto, and there, there's a beautiful contrast drawn between various devotees of Krishna, so if we consider the Gopis of Vrindavan, that is the chapter 29 to 33 in the 10th canto of which is the brahmana patnis, the wives of the brahmanas, they come to Krishna, so now there are similarities and differences between both of these, so what happens is that the Gopis, Krishna plays his flute and what happens, Gati Vidas Tava, Ud Gita Mohitaha, Gita Vyoshitas, Kastya Jinneshi, as soon as the Gopis hear the flute call of Krishna, that flute becomes, through the flute, the sound of the flute is like a rope, it falls in the heart of the Gopis, and it flushoes their heart, and it pulls them, and they're dragged, they leave everything else, they leave their family members, they just run toward Krishna, and they come and meet Krishna in the forest, and Krishna has called them, but Krishna acts innocent and nonchalant over there, and he says, oh Gopis, it is night time now, how come you are here out there today, and he says, oh maybe the night sky is very beautiful, the forest of Vrindavan is very beautiful, maybe you had a desire to see all this, so now you have seen this, after seeing this, please go back, and the Gopis become restless, they say, we did not come to see all that Krishna, we came because you called us, now they don't speak that explicitly, but that's their heart, but when they express their heart, and they insist Krishna, we cannot go back, so Anandanandavan Champo says that, the example of the devotee, when it comes to Krishna, they say that, your request is absurd, he says, if a river comes flowing from the top of a mountain, down to the ocean, and the river has come to the ocean, and the ocean says, oh river, go back to the mountain, how can a river from a mountain go back to the mountain, similarly, we have left everything to come to you, how can we go back now, now the similar situation happens to the Brahman Patnis, Krishna sends his friends first to the Brahmanas, they say, we need some food, we are hungry, and the Brahmanas are busy doing a Yajna, and they don't even pay any attention to them, for a human heart, neglect is very painful, especially when we expect some reciprocation, say, if you come to a temple, and you see some devotee, and you greet them, and they act as if they are seeing, they don't see you only, what is this, it appears very strange, and if it happens once, twice, thrice, then you think, maybe I am not wanted here, so neglect can be very painful, so when they are neglected, they feel hurt, then Krishna says, let go back to their wives, see, now in this past time, the primary thrust is, the thrust of devotion versus ritualism, so their husbands are so caught in the rituals of the Yajnas, they start thinking, who are these boys, they are coming and interrupting, we don't have time for this, we are doing important work, and actually the whole Yajna was meant to please Krishna, and as Krishna himself has come, but they neglected him, Krishna came through his messengers, but the wives didn't neglect, and they said, oh, Krishna is hungry, he said, not only can you carry food, we will carry the food for you, and they themselves came, and they didn't come just to offer the food to Krishna, they wanted to offer their heart and their life to Krishna, so in the primary thrust of this past time, the brahmana patnis, the wives of the brahmanas, they are revealed to be far more devotional, devotionally advanced than their husbands, so the Bhagavatam often inverts normal hierarchies, so the Bhagavatam often inverts normal hierarchies, that means that, say, a brahmana is considered higher than a Kshatriya or a Vaishya, or like that, whatever hierarchy is inverted over here, so here, the wives of the brahmanas, they are shown to be far wiser and far more devoted than their husbands, at the same time, you can have another contrast, so these queens, these brahmana patnis come and they want to offer their whole life to Krishna, and Krishna says that, there are different ways in which you can perform bhakti, you don't always have to have my personal association, go back, and when you go back, you serve me within your hearts, and continue the work that you are doing, I will be with you in your heart always, and for us at our level to get to the point of loving Krishna and being absorbed in Krishna, we have to first, with inspiration, desire for Krishna.
Does that make sense? Okay, I got your question. So, what you are asking is that, at one level, we are told that the perfection of devotion is just to do God's will, just to do the spiritual master's will, but then we see even advanced devotees, they do their spiritual master's will, but in their own particular way, according to their inspiration. So, how should we serve? Is it that doing simply Krishna's will is higher, but at our level, we should do our will in Krishna's service? Yeah, not exclusive, because God's will, rather than thinking of Krishna's will or Krishna's plan as one path, this is the path, we can think of it as one direction.
Krishna has given each one of us free will, and he wants us to use the free will, but use the free will in a healthy direction. I was in London, and I gave a talk on Balram Jayanti on the Guru Tattva. So, one devotee asked this question.
So, he was glorifying Krishna, but the body he had got was in Bengal. So, the way he was speaking, he could naturally have a Bengali accent. So, there is a duality, because each one of us is an individual.
So, Krishna's will, rather than thinking of it as just one particular path, if I'm following the path, then I'm on Krishna's will. If I'm not, it's not that simple or robotic. It is Krishna's will is more like a path, direction, it's more like a purpose or a direction, and different people can harmonize with Krishna's will in different ways.
So, Prabhupada, he said that his spiritual master told him to go to the West, and preach in the West, and he did that. But then he would tell his disciples that now preaching in India is my desire. Now, what did he mean by my desire? Prabhupada based, Prabhupada, yes, he wanted to fulfill his spiritual master's desire, but he also observed, this is my inference, and based, I had talked to several also, he would let those who had already become devotees, but he put his primary attention and energy in Indian outreach.
So, what does it mean? He had a desire, but his desires were ultimately to share Krishna's will. So, his spiritual master said that both individual desires and harmony are Krishna's desire, that there be, every town and village be the holy name be chanted. So, Prabhupada said that, yes, but for them to sustain, they need to come to India.
So, we need to have good temples in India. We need to have good places for devotees to visit. So, focus.
So, we shouldn't think of individual will and divine will as being contradictory always, intrinsically, that to do the divine will doesn't require the suppression of the human will. Rather, we understand that the divine will leads the flourishing of the human will. It leads the flourishing of the human individual.
So, we become the fullest we can be when we become devoted to God. Not that we have to dedicate everything so that we can be devoted to God. So, there are certain aspects which are impure and which need to be given up.
But there is our core personality and that will blossom when we become devoted to God. You see the Pandavas, all of them are devoted. But each of them is a different individual.
Our individuality needs to be acknowledged and God's will will act through individuality. Not that our individuality has to be suppressed for God's will to be enacted. Does it answer your question? Thank you.
Yes. You can speak, I'll repeat. So, my question is that you mentioned how individual desires Krishna or desires for Krishna.
At the same time, we're living in a society. So, there may be some cases where you may desire for Krishna. But then if you desire, for example, I want to preach.
So, I'm desiring for Krishna. At the same time, I have, you know, some authorities. So, if I desire to preach and then one day the authorities, I fall short, the authorities take over.
Then from a social point of view, I may be giving a bad reputation to the consciousness movement. So, in that case, is there a factor that I report my desire? In a second case also, another example is to say, for example, I like to play the saxophone. So, if I desire for Krishna, I think I'm desiring for Krishna, but I have impurities and they take over.
And then if I do something wrong, then it leads to a bad name. So, should we first try to purify ourselves and then do something? Sometimes we have to not desire for Krishna at times. Yes, there is certainly, for somebody who is maybe officially representing Krishna in a particular position, a certain level of conduct is to be expected.
And that's why if somebody is officially preaching, then we need to be following certain principles, living in a particular way. But at an individual level, each one of us, we are going to speak about something to someone. Instead of speaking about other things, we speak about Krishna in a way that is appropriate.
So, we could say that the level we are at, we can always desire for Krishna and act. But if we are taking up some position, especially a formal position, then we need to have a certain level of purity in our desires. And the key thing is not so much what service we take up, but what attitude we have.
If we are associating with other devotees regularly, and especially we are associating with devotees who are candid enough to tell us if we are doing something wrong, then when we start going off course, that association will get us back. I was talking with one devotee. He told me recently, I don't take this personally.
It is just meant only for you. Don't take this personally. It is meant only for you.
Then he spoke something about what I spoke in the class, which he felt was not appropriate. So, I appreciated that. I tried to learn from it.
But my point is that if while taking up some service for Krishna, if we start isolating ourselves from others, and we stop taking feedback from others, or we take feedback from only those who appreciate us, those who think exactly like us, say birds of a feather flock together and then lock everyone else out. That is not so healthy. But if you're taking feedback, then even if we go start going wrong, somebody will tell us and we'll be correct.
We'll be guided. We'll do some course correction. It's a very difficult decision.
It's like an airplane is about to fly. And should we just stay at the place till it gets exact, precise map so that it can fly on? Or should we fly off now? And then when the map comes, we do the course correction. You might say, no, wait till the map, otherwise you're going to go very far off track.
It's possible. But even that off track might be such that it might be, I will be still closer to my destination than if I were just waiting here motionless. So, it's not so easy to decide that.
And also depends on individual nature. Some people are more of go-getters. They have to do something.
Pure or not, I'm going to do this. Some other people might be more restrained in their natures. Okay, till I have your motive, I can't do it.
Okay, that's okay. So, we have to consider the individual nature also within that decision making. Okay, thank you.
Beautiful. That's very thoughtful. Thank you.
Wonderful. Beautiful. Yes, I had a question.
I have a question slightly more suggestive. In the context of your comments about replacing seriously negative feeling positive attitude, you've also taken into consideration that it's more terrified when feelings are happening. And I can think positively, but it isn't going to go away right away.
Because it could never go away right away without certain issues, like factory farming of animals or whatever. And so, I'm just saying, are you also on board that this can be a time management thing about replacing the negative thoughts and energy with positive thoughts and energy? Yeah, replacing negative thoughts and energy with positive. Sometimes still the negative may not go away.
And you may have to just recognize that there's a particular amount of time frame involved. Yes. Let's talk about the individual level or social level.
The social level, if you consider, there are certain evils that are not going to change. There are certain evils which are there in society. But that doesn't mean we can't start doing something good.
It's like there are heavy rains. We hope that the rains will stop. But just because the rains are there doesn't mean that we can't open our own umbrella.
Now, our umbrella might not shelter everybody who's in the rains. It can shelter us and maybe it can shelter one or two other people also. Or maybe if we open our umbrella, it inspires others also to open their umbrella.
Isn't it? So we needn't underestimate the power of small changes. We don't have to be unrealistic and think that everything will change. Small changes can also make a significant difference.
So that's at a social level. We can't light the whole world. But if we light our own heart and we let God's light shine through us, at least the world around us can become a little brighter.
And so, yes, as you rightly said, that negative thinking or positive thinking is like a 21st century mantra. That's true. But that is an exaggeration of the power of positive thinking.
We are not saying that just change your thoughts and everything will be wonderful. See, one rigidly materialistic attitude with a physicalistic attitude is mind doesn't matter at all. Physical reality is what it is.
Mind doesn't matter. That was the attitude of mainstream science at the start of the early 20th century. Physicalism, that was what is called physicalism.
And a reaction to that was actually the mind matters. But like the pendulum swings, one extreme, everything is just behavioral. The mind doesn't matter at all.
But the pendulum went to the other extreme. And now the prevailing thought is the mind is all that matters. So first the mind was made important that you just behave.
Mind doesn't matter. Now the mind is being made omnipotent. Just think positive, everything will work out.
But the mind is not God. The mind is not omnipotent. So the balance state is we recognize the power of the mind and we see how that can be managed.
But beyond the power of the mind is the physical reality. Beyond the power of the mind is the power of God. So mind is one powerful element, but it is not everything.
So some people say everything is in the mind. Well, it's not that simple. Everything comes through the mind.
But everything is not in the mind. There is a physical reality also. So we do have to recognize the power of the mind and try to adjust it in the best possible way.
But there is a reality beyond that. There is the mental reality, but there is a physical reality and then the spiritual reality. There are three levels of reality.
So we need to work in a way that we can grow constructively in everything. But sometimes certain aspects at an individual level might just not be able to change it. But then okay, I can't change it.
I live with it. So then I have to live with it. See, even if we can't change what we live with, we can change what we live for.
Somebody might be an alcoholic and just can't give up alcohol. But they don't have to live for the alcohol. When the urge comes, I can't give it up.
But I still try to cultivate some purpose in my life. Try to do something constructive. When that urge hits me, I will give in.
But I'm not going to live for that. So we can't change what we live with sometimes. But still we can change what we live for.
Thank you very much.