7 purposes of ISKCON explained

7 purposes of ISKCON explained [Talk at Wellington, New Zealand] Video

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Hare Krishna. It's good to be here with all of you once again, and today we'll be discussing about the seven personal purposes of ISKCON. Actually, it was in 1996, I first heard about ISKCON.

I'd never heard about it before that, and when I first heard about it, I had a question. International Society for what? Krishna Consciousness. Now Krishna, of course, is a very common word in India, we know it refers to God, and in common language, consciousness is not that common a word.

Now it is becoming a little common, but otherwise, it is not that common. So consciousness is sometimes seen as a little bit scientific or a little bit abstract word. So when I first heard it, I thought, okay, Krishna Consciousness, Krishna is religious, consciousness seems scientific.

So what is this Krishna Consciousness? And even if it is something, why do you need an international society for that? So it was quite an intriguing name. And so Prabhupada, when he started the movement, he gave it a clear name, and the name itself gives the purpose. So it is to develop Krishna Consciousness.

And what is this Krishna Consciousness, it is Prabhupada's rendition of a Sanskrit word from Rupa Goswami's verse, Krishna rasa bhavitamati, Krishna rasa, rasa is taste, or the joy that we get when we experience Krishna bhakti, actually even the word rasa, the way we use it in common language is different from the way it is used by Sri Rupa Goswami, when he talks about bhakti rasa amritsundhu, when he talks about bhakti rasa, before coming again to Krishna Consciousness movement, the only time we hear about rasa was amras or ganna rasa, mango juice or sugarcane juice. So rasa basically here means its flavor, its taste. So Krishna rasa bhavita, bhavita means the juice of Krishna, of remembering Krishna, of loving Krishna, when we become bhavita, when it manifests, when it enriches us, and in the consciousness, mati, so when the consciousness is filled with the taste for connecting with Krishna, the taste for absorbing in Krishna.

So its a complicated word, poor word, prabhupada condensed into Krishna Consciousness. Now why does anyone need Krishna Consciousness? Consciousness is something which is always there with us, we are always conscious of something or the other, when somebody seems to be lost in thought, what are you thinking? And they say, nothing, now when they say nothing, what it means is, nothing that you need to know, because we are always thinking of something or the other. So thoughts are always there with us, and somehow many times our thoughts are the things which agitated us and hurt us the most, physically we might be okay, but we start worrying about this, fearing that and that, and so many ways our thoughts come back to hurt us.

So just as we build a home for our body, for our body to rest in and be sheltered in, protected in, so like that our consciousness also needs a home. And if the consciousness does not have a shelter, it does not have a home, then what happens? The consciousness becomes homeless, and it goes wherever it thinks it will get shelter. And everybody has their attachments, nobody's consciousness is literally homeless, it's like the home of the consciousness is something which is not a safe place, which is not a good place, everybody has to stay somewhere.

So what is the home of our consciousness? One way to understand it is, what do we think of when we have nothing to think of? Where does our consciousness go by default? For some people it might go towards, now World Cup cricket is coming up, so wake up and what is the cricket score? It might go towards sports, it might go towards, now there's a lot of political changes happening in India, so it might go towards politics, it might go towards maybe our family, maybe our financial condition. So there are many things which our consciousness may go towards, and there are many things we are functionally required to think about, no doubt. But beyond that, many times what our consciousness goes towards, that keeps agitating us.

So much of the news that we see nowadays in social media and internet, we have access to so much information from all over the world. But much of news is like telling people, Lord John's died, to people who didn't know that Lord John's lived. So there's not much relevance to what we know.

Most of the things that we read, how relevant are they to our day to day lives? So we just want some stimulation, some shelter, something to think about, because we have to think about some things. So entertainment is also a big thing, where we try to get some shelter. And entertainment is fine as far as it goes, as a break from life's routine, it's okay.

But it can also become an obsession. When it becomes an obsession, then we just can't live without it. In fact, if say 500 or 1000, 2000 years down the line, if archaeologists studied our 20th or 21st century, what would be the most expensive artifact that they would find from our century? Okay, smartphones are widespread, they may not be the most expensive.

But something which typifies what our century, the most expensive thing which humans make very commonly is movies. Now millions of dollars are spent on one movie. Now where is this money coming from? It's coming from people, from people like us.

Now if people are ready to pay so much money, what it means is that they're feeling that some need of theirs is addressed. That's why people are giving them money. So what is that need? Life is tough and there is trouble for everyone.

And we want some relief from it. So entertainment promises that relief. But at one level, entertainment does give relief, but it's like a painkiller.

It offers some relief, but it's simply covering the pain, it's not curing the pain. And that's why what happens, whenever if somebody is sick and they take a painkiller, then they slowly have to increase the dosage of the painkiller. Because internally the disease is worsening.

And you can see that way, the entertainment's passion, the entertainment's aggression, the violence, it's all increasing as things are moving forward. In the past, maybe 50 years ago, if there was an action movie meant, somebody fighting with fists. But now you have like a big skyscraper building blown up.

And then people say, maza hao gaya. Something happened, otherwise you feel nothing is happening. So if you look at sports also.

In say India, cricket is quite common. So it appears as 5-day cricket matches. And 5 days is a painkiller.

Sometimes that painkiller has no effect for most of the time. It can seem quite boring. So then we had, it got, dose increased.

What happened? One day's were there. And one day's were quite exciting. But afterwards, that also was not enough.

Then what happened? 2020 came. And so basically India has two main painkillers. Cricket and Bollywood.

So about 10 years ago, both of them got married. And they had a child. Who was that child? IPL.

So, heavy dose of painkillers. There is some statistic I read somewhere that the amount of money that is spent on IPL, that is enough to feed all the hungry people of India throughout the year. So, the point here is not to condemn entertainment.

The point here is to recognize that we all need some shelter for our consciousness. And that shelter, if it is provided by entertainment, it is not adequate. We will get something, but afterwards, we want it more and more intense.

Ultimately we get distracted by it. So, Krishna consciousness means that we understand that there is an ultimate reality. And that ultimate reality is our anchor in life.

Life is filled with, if we consider Bhavasagar, this is like an ocean, in which waves keep coming. And as the waves keep coming, they keep shaking us. And sometimes happiness, sometimes distress, sometimes honor, sometimes dishonor.

They keep coming. And when that happens, when the waves are there, it is very difficult to fight it. But if we have some anchor that we can hold on to, then that will give us some steadiness.

So, the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhakti tradition tells us broadly that beyond all this world, there is one unchanging reality. And that is the Supreme Absolute Truth. That is Krishna.

So, if we anchor our consciousness to Him, then we get stability, we get strength, we get satisfaction. So, Krishna consciousness is basically giving a stable home to our consciousness. So, international society for giving people a safe, satisfying, strengthening inner home.

That is the ultimate purpose. And for that purpose, there are various activities to be done. This is a universal human being.

So, if you just look at the term Krishna consciousness, it might seem like an odd term and not so relevant. But if we understand the context, the background, we understand it's a universal human being. And Krishna Prabhupada started this movement so that we could all become Krishna conscious and help others to become Krishna conscious.

So, Prabhupada started the Krishna consciousness movement in which year? Any idea? 1960s. 1960s. Yes, that's true.

67. 67. Very close.

69. 66. Yes.

Thank you. So, 69, I think. So, 65, Prabhupada went from India to America.

And about a year later, in August next year, sometime in August, he started the Krishna consciousness movement. And he called it the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. But at that time, it was just one room in New York.

Just a storefront. And most devotees thought that it's not going to grow beyond this. In fact, for starting a society, Prabhupada was a visitor over there.

So, he couldn't start a society. He couldn't be a trustee also. So, he had some of his disciples.

Actually, it was so, you could say, either you could say seamlessly done or so naively done at that time. So, Prabhupada just had like a weekly program. And at the end, he said, so, we are starting a society.

And it's an international society. And he said, so, he looked at two or three of his disciples. For three of you will be trustees.

And now these were hippies. They had been hippies. Now they had become devotees.

So, they had no idea what it is. And they signed without even looking at what was there in that trustee document. And then when they read, Prabhupada said, the seven purposes.

Because now there was a lawyer, of course, which was needed for incorporating. So, when Prabhupada read out the purposes, they thought, they thought this is just something which is going to be here in New York, Lower East Side. And we will be happy over here.

Swamiji wants to give a name to it. It's good. But Prabhupada had a big vision for it.

And now, that vision has manifested all over the world. With millions and millions of devotees connected. And several thousands and thousands of devotees committed.

And for many, many devotees, their lives have been transformed. They developed love for Krishna. So, we are a part of a tradition.

The tradition does not begin with 1965. The Krishna Bhakti tradition is thousands and thousands of years old. But this particular manifestation of the Krishna Bhakti tradition is something which Prabhupada began in 1965.

So, his purpose is, how do they affect us and how we can understand them as not rules or instructions but as guidelines. See, there is a difference between a purpose and either a goal or a rule. A purpose is more like a broad direction.

A goal is more like a destination. So, a purpose is something which you could say is almost like never achieved. It's an ongoing thing.

It's like developing virtues. Developing humility. So, if somebody says, I have become humble now.

Well, within 24 hours we'll find out. So many things happen. And then, we realize, what happened to my humility? So, self-mastery in general is like a journey.

Similarly, Krishna Consciousness is like a journey. And we could say these seven purposes are broadly like seven lanes in the direction of Krishna Consciousness. So, how can we ourselves become, get that inner home for our consciousness and how can we provide that for others? That's what we will discuss.

So, what we will do is, after each purpose, if any of you have any questions or comments, maybe it's not directly related to that discussion, we can have briefly and then at the end we can have more questions. So, any question till now? Yes. A small fundamental question.

Yeah. I'm trying to understand what is the reason for the stoppage of the society in India? Okay, good question. So, that's a good question.

My question is, India is more traditional, more devotees are there. Yeah. That's why I'm trying to understand that.

Yes. So, why did Prabhupada Why did Prabhupada start ISKCON in America and not in India? India is already so traditional, more devotees are there. What is that Hindi saying? So, in the Christian tradition it says, a pastor is never popular in his own district.

So, this pastor gives class every week. What's the big deal? You go to somebody, oh, he's come for the first time, he's come once a year. So, in general what happened with initially Prabhupada was in India, he was wanting to share Krishna consciousness over there also and he did start another organization called the League of Devotees in Jhansi in the 1940s and 50s roughly.

But what happened, he found three things. India was either too crippled by poverty or it's too enamored by politics because India was just either becoming independent or had just become independent. So, there's a lot of hope that political change will lead to transformation.

And thirdly, it was too enamored by the West. So, as Western civilization is progressing, we want to become like the West. And because of that, people were pious, but people were not committed.

So, yeah, in fact when Prabhupada wanted to come to America, there was his sponsor Sumti Moraji, she gave Prabhupada a place on her ship Jaladuta to come. So, initially she said, Swamiji, why do you want to go to America? If you want to speak Bhagwat, come to my house, every day you can speak, I'll hear from you. Now, for her, hearing Bhagwat was like a ritual.

It's a pious thing to do. Many Indians, they have Bhagwat Sapta. It's not that they don't have devotion, but for them, it is more like Bhakti is one part of your life.

They don't consider Bhakti as the purpose of life. Life can have many parts, no doubt, but ultimately, love for Krishna is the ultimate purpose of life. That was not the idea.

Bhakti is one part of life. But there are so many other things which I want to do and they are more important. So, because of that, Prabhupada found that Indians were not very interested.

Now, if you consider those three, now there could be many specific other factors, but if you consider these broad three factors, it was not in Prabhupada's power to change the poverty of India. That's too big an issue. And it would change if the economy gets stabilized and various factors.

Now, the infatuation with political change, that also, it was not in his power to change. But the infatuation with the West. So, Prabhupada decided to tap that.

His idea was that, if I can go to the West and if I can inspire Western people to practice Bhakti, and then Indians want to imitate the Western people. So, if the Indians say, Oh, they are so good. We want to be like that.

We want to be like them. And then if they are practicing Krishna Bhakti, then there must be something special in Krishna Bhakti. So, therefore, Prabhupada did that.

And he could have gone to UK, but UK's star was going down. When the British Empire was in its heyday, they said the sun never sets on the British Empire. But by the time of 1950, 1960, when Prabhupada started going to UK, Prabhupada joked, he says, Prabhupada was in UK for several days, and he says, the sun never rises in UK.

It was always dark. So, Prabhupada chose America because America had become much more powerful after the Second World War. And he felt that if he could inspire Americans to become devotees, then that would inspire Indians back.

And that did happen. So, now if you see, as you rightly said, the tradition is strongest in India. And now, in our Krishna Conscious Movement, Indians are the majority.

India is the country with the maximum members of our movement. And also, in other countries also, it's Indians who are primarily there. So, definitely the tradition is continued.

But what has happened, there is some international recognition that is there. Because of which, in fact, I had gone in Pune to one very wealthy person's house, and he had his nameplate. And it was written, okay, L and B, this, this, degree.

And on his nameplate, he had written below, ISKCON life member. So, in the 1960s, ISKCON was considered such a special organization that to be a life member of ISKCON was was a very prestigious thing to do. So, Prabhupada adopted that strategy.

That's why he started in America. Thank you. So, let's move with the purposes.

Would someone like, do we have another mic? Or maybe someone with a loud voice can read it. Purpose one. To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all people in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.

So, you could say this is a very big purpose. But, now, I won't go into all the points because we want to cover all the seven. Could have a whole class on this one only.

But, let's focus on some things over here. See, basically, one of the main things, I, now, I was, most of, like, all of you, all of us were born in India. I was born in an Indian Brahmin family.

And, my parents were pious. Again, not very spiritual. But, we used to go to holy places.

The first thing that struck me when I came to ISKCON temple was that there were classes. And, most of it, going to a temple is to do some puja, offer some, offer some worship, do some ritual, and then come back. And, not just there were classes, of course, there was Katha going on, there were classes where philosophy was discussed and explained in a way which could make sense.

So, Prabhupada said that, traditionally, you could say, among the Brahmanas, Brahmanas are the, Brahmanas are the, in the society, they play two broad roles. There is the role of the priests and there is the role of teachers. Now, in general, people practice their culture because of habit.

If somebody has been doing something for some time, just we keep doing it. So, so, the priestly tradition continued. So, there was a role for priests, but the teachers, they somehow got sidelined.

Or, that role the Brahmanas were not doing. And, that's why the temples became a place where the ceremonies were done. The Brahmanas were people who would come and do the ceremonies at your homes, whether it is the name-giving ceremony of a child or whether it is a marriage ceremony or whatever.

But the idea of teaching was lost. And, Prabhupada's primary vision was that, that for understanding what we are doing in life, we need knowledge. So, it was to propagate spiritual knowledge.

When I joined the movement, after I joined, some of my relatives came and said, you stay all day in the temple, what do you do? Isn't it? So, I said, temple is somewhere, something you visit, you do some work. now they saw our temple, there is so much vibrant activity, there are different classes, there are so many different services, there are so many things to do basically. So, the idea is education.

So, to propagate spiritual knowledge. And, this is, we have a long tradition of big big scriptures. But, that was, that the tradition of teaching that was lost.

The tradition of doing rituals was there, but the teacher, Prabhupada's focus was not so much on the rituals. Prabhupada's focus was more on the teaching part. And, at large, and educated all people.

So, Prabhupada said, this is not just for Indians or for Hindus. It is for everyone. And, in that sense, it's universal.

There are some places, for example, some temples, they may not allow some people to come in. Only some kind of people are welcome. Even others are allowed.

Prabhupada would say, Prabhupada was not very appreciative of Jagannath temples not allowing non-Indians to come. He said, it's Jagannath. Why are you making him Hindunath? Isn't it? He is universal.

Why are you making him Sakti? So, to all people. And, what are we giving education in? It's interesting, again, the techniques of spiritual life. So, the word technique is very interesting.

What it means is, spiritual life needs to be practiced in a particular way. And how to be spiritual? How to practice spiritual life? So, the knowledge, there is philosophy, but the Bhagavad Gita gives philosophy ultimately for the purpose of practice. Now, Arjun is not just like a armchair philosopher.

He is on the action field, on the war field, and he has to decide, he has to do. So, the knowledge we are providing is how to practice spiritual life. And for what purpose? It is to check the imbalance of values in life.

Now, what does it mean by imbalance of values? So, again, Prabhupada is not saying here that the purpose is to go back to God. Yes, that's true. But for people, what is go back? What is Godhead? Why do you need to go back there? Now, Prabhupada wrote a book called Easy Journey to Other Planets.

And there was a scientist who was very interested in that book. And he said, Swamiji, you are told about how to go to other planets. If I go there, can I come back? So, the first question is, this world is the main thing for people.

The main thing is this world. So, one of my uncles, when I started practicing bhakti, I was talking with him about God. He said, I believe in God.

He is happy there. I am happy here. So, most people are not interested in the other world immediately.

What they are interested in is this world. And that's understandable. But imbalance of values means that actually if we obsess too much on this world alone, then we, that means we start pursuing material pleasures alone.

Then, it's ironic that the search for pleasure becomes the source of the biggest trouble. In most cases, if you see somebody starts drinking, somebody starts smoking, the activities we do simply for pleasure. Gradually, they start becoming obsessed.

Somebody watches TV for pleasure. But then they get hooked to it and spend hours and hours on it. So, yes, material life has its place.

Spiritual life has its place. And there needs to be a balance. But the mainstream society is, materialism is all that is important.

Spirituality is, no time, no place for it. So, to check the imbalance, that means in a balanced way one can practice bhakti. And Yudhishthira Maharaj, after the Pandavas married Draupadi and then they come back and they are given Khandava Prastha which they make into Indra Prastha.

At that time, Narada Muni comes to meet them. And Narada Muni asks at that time to Yudhishthira, Are you pursuing religion, profit and pleasure in balance? Now, religion, profit and pleasure, these are dharma, artha and kama. So, we could broadly equate it with, for us in today's world, say, religion is like the temple or the spiritual community center.

The profit is our job. And dharma, artha, kama, pleasure, kama is not the sensuality. It is overall materialist, fulfillment of our material desire.

That's the place of home. So, temple, home and workplace. This is balance of all three.

So, Yudhishthira Maharaj is told by Narada Muni, Don't pursue religion at the expense of profit or pleasure. Don't pursue profit at the expense of religion and pleasure. Don't pursue pleasure at the expense of religion and profit.

Just pursue all three in balance. So, the Krishna Consciousness Movement is not here to tell that just reject the material world. But it says, Don't reject the spiritual world for the material world.

Balance. To check the imbalance of values. And then to achieve real unity and peace in the world.

Now, this can seem like a very big thing. What about unity and peace in the world? How is that world even possible? Now, that's difficult. But gradually, ultimately, the world is made of individuals.

And if individuals become more peaceful, they become more content, they become more happy, then they will have less conflicts among each other. So, Krishna Consciousness is about, we could say, a grassroot level change in the world. Make the individuals more self-controlled, more purposeful, more satisfied.

And gradually, a change will happen. So, this way, we can look at this first purpose. So, it's centered on knowledge, but knowledge as a tool to achieving balance.

So, through knowledge, we understand that this world is not all in all. There is something more to life beyond this world also. And we need to pursue both in balance.

And it's interesting that actually the more, if we pursue material pleasures alone, the craving for them becomes more and more and more and more. And then that craving itself destroys us. But if we give due time for our spiritual growth, then our material life also can grow, but it will grow proportionately.

We won't get obsessed by it. Growth is a normal condition of life. All of us were unicellular organisms at one time.

Now, we have grown up millions and billions of cells in our body. This is growth. So, like that, in every walk of our life, we want to grow.

In our social position, in our financial strength, security, in our relationships, in our health. We all want to grow. But growth needs to be proportional.

Cancer is also growth. But it is disproportional and destructive growth. So, we want to avoid that in a balanced way.

So, balanced growth of all walks of life. That's the first purpose. Any questions or comments about this? Good question.

So, in the Bhagavad Gita, if calm is something which you have to give up, then why should we talk about balance? Words have different meanings in different contexts. So, I was in England and there was a youth meeting and after that, there were nice question answers. I answered questions.

There were a lot of challenging questions, but it was quite good. And after that, the preacher who organized the program, he came to me with a bright smile on his face. He said, Prabhu, you killed it.

I said, what did I kill? I thought, was it a step by foot on an ant or something. What did I kill? So, his idea of using the word kill was basically that you answered very well. It was an excellent performance.

You killed it. So, actually, that word, that usage of kill comes from hunting. That means you hit the target.

So, he was taking it in a non-literal way. I took it in a literal way. So, words can have different meanings.

And sometimes a lot of confusion arises if you don't know in what context the word is used. So, when Krishna is saying, calm is something which has to be given up. Say, for example, 3rd chapter he says it.

So, we see, what is the context? Arjuna's question is, what is it inside us which makes us act self-destructively? अथ केन प्रयुक्तोयं पापम् चरति पूरुषः अनिच्छन्नपिवार्षनेय बलादिवनेय ओजितः So, there he is talking about what is it that causes us to act self-destructively. And then Krishna replies, कामेश क्रोधेश So, calm there is used to refer to the force which makes us act wrongfully. And that, Krishna says, needs to be regulated and ultimately we have to transcend it.

But then, in the 7th chapter we also see Krishna says, धर्मा अविरुद्धो भूतेशु कामो स्विभरतर्ष्व That I am kama which is not contrary to dharma. So, now kama in this context, it can have multiple meanings. So, one of our acharyas has translated kama as ambition.

So, ambition that is not contrary to dharma. I am that. If we see human beings, whatever we have achieved in life, it is because of some ambition.

The person who, I was just in America, so, I had gone to that university where the Wright brothers first flew a plane, which is that, I forget the name, anyway. So, went to that place. Now, it's quite an adventure to, in the modern time, at least to do that and fly.

So, whatever we human beings have achieved, it is because of some enterprising spirit, some ambition, some adventure. So, where do human beings get that from? It's that desire to do something extraordinary. That ambition, if it is not contrary to dharma, Krishna says, I am that ambition.

Arjuna's desire to become the best archer, his willingness to commit himself to practice, that's also kama, but that's not contrary to dharma. Similarly, now kama in a more specific sense can be used to refer to the desire to unite so that one can have children. In fact, Krishna also uses prajna, among the causes of procreation, I am kandarpa.

So, prajna shchasmi kandarpa, he says. What that means is that by nature's arrangement, the attraction between the genders is the mechanism by which children are born. And that, a new child being born, a new life coming into the world, that is something very special and sacred.

So, the activity that leads to that is also sacred. Sometimes we feel that kama itself is bad. No, it is, in fact you could say, in modern society the more kama, sex is glamorized, the more it is also trivialized.

Glamorized means all the movies and the media is talking about it, but trivialized means people make it such a casual activity. You know, it's like sometimes people have one night stands and such. So, it's actually made into some, it's glamorized on one side, but practically it's made something very insignificant.

But actually even in a dharmic context of a marriage, when there is physical intimacy, then that is a way of bringing a new life into the world. And so kama, is it to be given up? Yes, ultimately we don't want to be so attached to it that it distracts us from Krishna. But in the normal course of life, it's the way in which the biological imperative to pass on one's genes to the next generation.

One of the biological purposes of every species is to reproduce. So, that biological imperative, how it can be done within a dharmic context, that is regulated through marriage. And then, that kama is not at all against the principles of dharma.

So, it is in fact, if we understand kama in that holistic sense, it is one of the purusharthas. Purushartha is one of the purposes of life. Not the ultimate purpose, but one of the purposes of life.

Did I answer your question? Okay, yes. Birth is one of the real problems. Okay.

And giving birth is sacred, you mentioned. Okay. Birth is one of the problems, but I said giving birth is sacred.

In fact, I am just inspired actually, after something that happened yesterday, to give a whole talk on a topic. The danger of speaking the right thing at the wrong point. So, the philosophy has a purpose and it has to be presented in the proper way.

What does that mean? That means that say, we say that, since the same thing can be placed in different contexts and a lot depends on a state, no statement exists outside a context. So, for example, say we all, we could say we suffer because of our past karma. This is one philosophical statement.

Now, if I take it out of context and say in a home there is a newborn baby and that newborn baby is crying and the mother rushes to comfort the baby and somebody says, the baby is crying because of past karma. Let her cry. Now, that would be ridiculous, isn't it? See, the point is that we can place situations in different contexts.

So, usually we do it at a, we do it almost instinctively, which is the constructive context to put it. Say, for example, right now I'm speaking and if I see some of you straining to hear me, then I would figure that, okay, probably this mic is not close enough, so I'll move the mic closer. But if I see one of you straining in spite of that, so, you're straining your ears to hear me, I could say that, okay, my mic is not close enough to me.

But if that is close, then I could put it in another context. Maybe the volume is not right. Now, somebody put the volume, raise the volume.

Then, if still it's not enough, then maybe, I would think, is this person hard of hearing? Still, if that's not the case, because I have talked earlier with that person and I've been, still been able to, they've been talking now, then are the acoustics of the room this bad? So, basically we need to place things in the right context. So, with respect to the, coming to your particular point, of birth being a problem and the act of giving birth being sacred, the two different things entirely. The point is that, for the soul to be in the womb, in a constricted space, we could say, for the soul with its consciousness, with its capacity for infinite love and eternal life, it's a very constricted space to be in.

And it's suffering. But, actually speaking, it's nature who has designed the mother's womb. But I saw one advertisement for a housing complex in Mumbai.

And the advertisement was, as comfortable as your mother's womb. Now, what does it mean? Actually, from the biological perspective, the body has been made to be as comfortable as possible. So, obviously, if a woman is carrying a child, she's expecting, then, should she be thinking, oh, this baby is suffering in my womb.

Now, traditionally also, if a woman is pregnant, everybody takes care of her. That they should not be slightly also hurt. They shouldn't slip and fall, shouldn't carry too much weight, shouldn't do too much, unless the exertion or whatever.

So, why is that? Because, yes, there might be some distress in that situation, but our role, our duty, is to make sure that the distress is not increased any further. So, if you want to understand that, in the context of understanding that the world is a place of distress, that one of the distresses is birth. But, in the context of recognizing that we all are living in the world and biologically we procreate and we continue the generation.

So, now, if you consider the act of giving birth, there are different samskaras before that. Even after the birth, there is namakaran samskara. So, just as marriage is a sacred act.

Now, you could say that marriage is also, there can be attachment between male and female and there can lead to bondage. Okay, that's one aspect to it. But still, the act of marriage is sanctified.

We take vows, we go around the sacred fire, depending on what tradition we are in. So, we have to put things in the right context. So, the fact that a new life is coming into the world, that is something very special, that is miraculous.

And it is, by the, another way you could understand it is sacred is that it's not in our control. That husband and wife may unite, but just by their union, a child is not born. There has to be, for conception to happen, something more has to be there.

So, how it all happens, it is, there is clearly, if you study the process of birth, it's a, so many things can go wrong in the, while the embryo is growing. Sometimes, tragically miscarriages happen. But rather than considering that a miscarriage is a tragedy, we can say actually birth is a miracle.

Because so many things could go wrong, but they don't and people are born. So, we shouldn't, we need to know what context we are talking about something. So, from the perspective of a new life coming into the world, birth is a sacred activity.

The act of bringing children into the world, it's sacred. In fact, it's one of the ways in which we fulfill our debt to our ancestors. There are three kinds of debts.

There are debts to the gods, which we perform, fulfill by doing yajnas. There are debts to the rishis, which we fulfill by studying scriptures and serving them and the debts to our ancestors, which we fulfill by having children. Now in bhakti, we go to the source and we serve Krishna ultimately.

So, in that sense, we can say that we are, we are not obligated to these debts. But it's not that it is in any way, any way wrong. It's something which is very sacred.

Does it answer your question? If you want to add anything, feel free to add. So, let's go to the second purpose now. Yeah.

Okay. Should we say that giving birth is sacred and having birth is misery? That's a good way of putting it. Okay.

Giving birth is sacred, having birth is misery. You could put it that way. But I would be a little cautious about putting it like that.

Because birth is also an opportunity for us to grow spiritually. If say we don't take birth, that doesn't mean we are purified and we are going to live in the spiritual world. If a soul doesn't take birth, then the soul has to stay in a disembodied body like a ghost or something like that.

And that is also misery. Isn't it? So, at one level, being in material consciousness in the material world is distressful. So, some people say that, especially in the western world now, there is an ideology that why should we have children? And they say, there is many parents, many couples, when they get married, if they get married also.

People sometimes just live together without getting married also. But then, they say, oh, the world is so tough, why should I bring one more soul into the world? And they say that, I don't have to have children. But then, every living being has a deep-rooted need to nurture.

And then that need to nurture, they direct it towards their dogs and cats. I had gone in LA for a morning walk and we had gone to a park. Normally, if you think of a park, there is some place to play, instead of children playing, and then mothers and parents are sitting nearby.

This whole park was filled with dogs. Not a single child you see anywhere. And in fact, now one of the, so I was reading somewhere that, one of the ways, they say that, one of the only reasons why people get exercise is because they take their dog out for a walk.

So, now that need to nurture has not gone away. Just like a mother might take photos of a child and preserve, make an album and a collage and keep the photos. I have an online backup service where I backup my computer and they send periodic mails.

So, they said that they did some way of scanning all the data that was there on their servers. They found that 80% of the data on their servers was photos of cats and dogs. So, that need to nurture, we can't give it up.

We just misdirect it. Now, we have nothing against cats and dogs, but it's concerned if cats and dogs replace human beings as the object of affection. So, in that sense, taking birth is an opportunity for the soul to continue its spiritual journey.

And yes, the process of birth is painful and we need to acknowledge that. But that doesn't mean that we should consider that birth itself is bad. It's not like that.

The fact of being in the material existence and material consciousness itself is fundamentally problematic. And to come out of that problematic zone, we have to go through some problematic phases. And one of them is birth.

But that doesn't take the activity of birth itself as negative. Yeah, second purpose? Who would like to read it? To propagate a consciousness of Krishna, God, as it is revealed in the great scriptures of India, Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. Okay, good.

So, this brings, the first was spiritual knowledge and to promote values. Now, Prabhupada becomes a little more specific. What is spiritual knowledge? Since he's talking about, it's meant to develop a consciousness of Krishna.

And different people have different conceptions of God. And we don't deny their conceptions. Because God is infinite.

And no religion can be claimed to have monopoly on God. But we could say God has been revealed in particularly vivid detail in the Bhakti tradition. In the Abrahamic religions, people have the conception of God.

But there is very little positive description of God. Have you seen that painting of Adam and God? God is stretching out his hand. And Adam is also stretching out his hand.

Actually, I have that, maybe I'll show it to the end of the class if you connect it. It's a common painting. Basically, God is stretching out his hand and Adam is stretching out his hand.

And God is giving his grace to man. That's the idea. And that's how they say God is reaching out to human beings.

Now, that depiction is fine. In fact, that's in many of the churches in Europe, it's there. But if you look at the depiction objectively, so God is depicted as an old man with a beard.

And Adam looks more attractive than God. So, God as an old man, of course, is an artistic conceptualization. God is not an old man.

But the point is, who God is, is not so well known. The idea of God is very widespread. But the specifics of who God is, that is revealed in the Bhakti tradition.

And that's what Prabhupada focuses on. That as revealed in the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam. And if you look at Prabhupada's writings, Prabhupada had finite, limited time and he very carefully chose which books to focus on.

So, we could say that, which is our tradition, specifically, does anyone know the Sanskrit word for our tradition? Sanatana Dharma, yes. Brahma, Madhva, Gaudiya, Vaishnava parampara. So, Gaudiya, Vaishnava.

Now, Brahma, Madhva means, the knowledge about Krishna Bhakti is coming from Brahma. It is propagated through Madhvacharya. And specifically, Gaudiya refers to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

The branch of Vaishnavism of worship to Vishnu that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has given. So, that's the tradition in which we belong, the Gaudiya-Vaishnava tradition. Now, in this tradition, the primary point is that we focus on Krishna.

And Vaishnavism, Vishnu worship is there all over India. But Gaudiya, it can refer to the Gauda desh, the Bengal area. But actually, that's only the external meaning because this Gaudiya-Vaishnava tradition, even in Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's time, it was there in Orissa, it was there in Vrindaban, many other places.

So, Gauda also is a variant of the word Guda. Guda is jaggery. And gud is actually available everywhere.

But the jaggery that is available in Bengal is especially sweet. It's almost like chocolate. Has anyone eaten that jaggery from Bengal? It's very sweet.

So, the idea is Vaishnavism is there everywhere but there is a special flavor of sweetness. And that sweetness is, as we know, the love for Krishna in the mood of the gopis, especially Radharani, in separation. So, Prabhupada is talking about this to promote a consciousness of Krishna.

So, there is, we could say, a universal aspect to our tradition and there is a confidential aspect. Not sectarian but confidential. We don't say this is the only way.

There are many different traditions and people can attain God through their particular traditions. But we are focusing on cultivating Krishna consciousness. And we don't reject that there are other traditions and people can cultivate God consciousness in their own ways.

So, we can conceive that there is a mountain, the bottom of the mountain is material consciousness, the top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness. So, we want to all go to spiritual consciousness. But say, when you are climbing up a mountain also, sometimes the side top of the mountain, from one side you get a particular view, from another side you get another view.

And from some sides, the view is breathtakingly beautiful. So, like that, we are climbing up a path, the mountain, and from this path, we have the view of God as Krishna. And it is this path that we are propagating.

Prabhupada said, we have not come here to convert people from one religion to another. If at all there is any conversion, it is from materialism to spirituality. It is not from one religion to another religion.

So, there is a confidential aspect in the sense that we want to go up by this path. So, that's why in our temples, we will have primarily focusing on the worship of Krishna or some manifestation of Krishna like Jagannath or Gauramitai. But we also respect Ram.

We also celebrate Ram Navami. We discuss Ram Katha. But that's not our primary focus.

That doesn't mean we don't accept them. But that's not our primary focus. That's the second point.

Any questions about this? Go ahead. Yes, who would like to read? To bring the members of the society together with each other and nearer to Krishna, the prime entity, thus developing the idea within the members and the humanity at large that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead Krishna. It's interesting you bring people closer to each other and closer to Krishna.

So, the idea that we are parts of Krishna, that is what is to be fostered. But it's not just an intellectual idea that I am part of Krishna. It is to be fostered by ourselves becoming practically a part of something bigger.

Most of the time when people come to a spiritual path or a spiritual organization or a spiritual group, it's not so much because of searching for something spiritual. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that there are four kinds of people who come to him, four categories of people. Those who are distressed, those who are distressed, those who are distressed and those who are distressed.

What happens is that even if somebody is curious, nowadays people have the whole internet to be curious about. And Sriman Google Guru is always there to teach them. Curiosity can go in so many different directions.

If somebody wants money, they will just take a loan while they come to God. People want knowledge also, they can go to so many other sources. There is a basic, you could say, denominator of some kind of distress and dissatisfaction which makes people look towards transcendence.

So, now one of the big distresses in today's world is fragmentation. Now people are very lonely. In the past there were joint families, then there were nuclear families and now even the nucleus has split and we have protons and neutrons all orbiting around in the vast concrete jungles, isn't it? I was in UK a few months ago, so somebody showed me an article.

They have appointed in UK a minister for loneliness. So it's a cabinet department apparently. So it's such a big problem.

And loneliness is not just because people don't have any friends or relatives. In social media nowadays people have so many friends. But those friends are just nominal friends.

Now deep connections may not be there so much. So the idea is we need to come together closer to each other so that we can come closer to Krishna. So the point I was making is when people are distressed, one way people are distressed is that they are lonely.

And when people come to a spiritual group, it's primarily for a sense of belonging and community. That's one of the main reasons. Very few people are so philosophical that what is the ultimate purpose of life.

It's good to know about it. But what practically helps people is when they come closer to each other. And how much devotees care for each other, that's what will keep devotees together.

So we want to come closer to each other. Our bond with Krishna is vertical and that's important. But to experience Krishna's love for us, it takes time.

But if devotees are there with us and we are like a big family, then that is what gives us experience of Krishna in a practical way. I was at one community of devotees and they were telling me about how it is like a secluded community, you could say a farm community, staying far away from everywhere else. And around that there are many devotees.

There's farm community and around that also there are many devotees. So what happened, there was one new family that had come, and their child, about three years old, got lost. And now it's like a big field and forest and lakes.

And the parents started freaking out, panicking. And now for the government over there, that country is a welfare state, so the government, for them it's not unfamiliar. So they have their own rescue team, so they came and started searching.

But then what happened was, that because this is a devotee community, so it's like almost a whole community, almost more than 100-150 people came and they said, we all want to search. And then their staffer says, all of you are not trained, we will search ourselves. He says, no, these people are there and they want to search.

So then they arranged their groups that they had one trained person and then two-three other people combing the area. So then it became such a big thing that so many people had come to assist. At that time, one of the local TV channels came over there and they were interviewing the search in-charge.

He was at the center place and he was coordinating. So I asked him, is this common that when some child gets lost, so many people come? He says, I have never seen this before. So I said, what is your reaction to this? He says, as a professional, I am concerned about so many untrained people searching.

But he says, as a human being, this restores my faith in the goodness of humanity. So the point is that, if we come together as a family and we are there for each other, when times of distress are there. So that's what will help each other, solidify our connection with each other and with Krishna.

So that's the point. How do we realize that we are parts of Krishna? Krishna is far away from us. But when we experience that we are parts of a community which is centered on Krishna and God becomes real for us, not just through some philosophical analysis, God becomes real through our personal experiences of how those who are devoted to God, they are caring, they are kind, they are loving, they are spiritual.

In so many ways, the biggest cause of atheism is, as you could say, judgmental or fanatical theists. And people have bad experiences with religion. I was in India some place and I was giving a college seminar.

I was in Jagannath Puri, not in Jagannath Puri, which is Rao R. K. Lal's Orissa, that area itself. So I was there talking, I gave a seminar in the class. And after that, the many students, like 800-900 students, it was a big program in the college itself.

And after that, the students, I was staying in the guest room. So many students came for question answers. And after that, one student, he came to meet me and he was standing at the door.

And he was asking questions from me. He said, come in. I said, no, no.

He says, what happened? Please come in. Then another boy who was coordinating, he came and whispered something in my ear. He said, I'm untouchable.

I said, forget it, please come in. Just because he came in, I hugged him. He was completely overwhelmed.

And then he told me that when I was five or six, in that particular village, they were not allowed to come to the temple. And he said, I would stand outside and the pujari would come and give some prasad. So he said, when he would give prasad to us, he would say, keep three foot distance between my hand and his hand and drop the prasad from there.

So he said, I felt so alienated. So after that, when he was leaving, he was almost in tears. And so what happens is, now, of course, those who are doing deity worship should maintain some purity.

But purity doesn't mean that we look down upon others. So what happens is, if somehow, now, within our devotee community, we may not, we will never do like that. But we can become judgmental in our own ways.

We want to come closer to each other. Judgmental means what may happen is that we may think this is the right way of doing things. Now this has to be, chanting has to be done like this, this has to be done like this, this has to be done like this.

And if you're not doing it in this way, then you are deviating. And sometimes our spirituality, instead of bringing us closer, it can make us more judgmental. And when we become judgmental, then we can also, we can be together, but our hearts may not be together.

So we are all struggling. We all have our conditionings. We all have our lower desires, which sometimes come up.

And we all need to battle them. And we are partners. We are all fighting the same war.

So, if some devotee comes and tells somebody else, you know, I have this problem. What? I thought you're such a serious devotee and you're such a fallen human being. You should never say like that.

And it says, we are all struggling and we need to help each other. It's like it said that we should see each other through. That means the life is a difficult journey and we see each other through.

Not that we see through each other. Oh, yes, you're acting like a great devotee, but I know what is in your heart. I've heard like that.

So we want to come closer to each other. And that's one of the important purposes. So as families, family members come closer to each other.

As they say that if a family that prays together, stays together. So if we have some center, which is on which we are all centered together and then we do devotional activities together, that brings us together. Then as a community, we come together regularly.

It's important that we understand the purpose of Krishna Consciousness. Not just that I chant Hare Krishna and I don't care for anyone else. But it's like we as a community come together.

So the community is a very, very important purpose. And to a large extent, as we become a vibrant community, even without explicitly preaching, people will come. Because people want a sense of belonging.

People want a sense of community. So if we can and the way to do this is the sixfold loving exchanges. How do we come closer to each other? We give gifts, we take gifts.

We honor prasadam, we offer prasadam. And we share our heart and we hear others sharing their heart in confidence. Now, normally we, this prasadam, we do a lot.

Gifts also we give. But sharing the heart we need to do much more. And we need to feel secure so that we shouldn't, when we say something, it shouldn't be transmitted all over the world.

It's like most people, they tell you, can you keep a secret? Now when people say can you keep a secret, they are admitting they can't keep the secret. So if somebody has spoken something in confidence to us, keep it in confidence. Now gossip or prajanpa as we say.

Now gossip, when does gossip happen? Gossip happens when we hear something we like about someone we don't like. If we don't like someone, we are eager to hear, oh there is something, this person likes this, I will tell everyone. So if we, to keep community together, this is also a big subject, I won't go into it, but just some broad principles that we need to keep confidences.

If somebody shares our heart, keep it confidential. People should feel that we can trust each other. And then not only will our relationship with each other flourish, but when our relationship with each other are good, then our bhakti will also flourish.

If we are agitated, we are angry, we feel betrayed, then how much can we focus on Krishna even if we chant Krishna's names. So our sense of community has to be good and stable. That's the third purpose.

Any questions or comments about this? Bringing the community together is quite important, but there are two main problems which I see. One is because in Kanyuga we are very selfish and we are focused on us and not about others. That is one problem.

And the second problem is even if somebody wants to help others, the person who is getting helped because of the false ego is not ready to take help. So many times we are not ready to help and sometimes when we are ready to help, people are not ready to take help. So is there anything that we can do? For a community to come together, most people are not ready to help because they are self-centered and most people are not ready to take help because they want to be independent.

Because of ego or whatever. Yes, it's a big challenge. I think a lot depends on what people's experiences are while doing small things in a particular direction.

That means if somebody tries to help someone and the other person doesn't take that help or rejects that help, I feel, why should I do this? Or somebody asks for help and then they are rebuffed. Then what happens? I cannot ask like this. So it all begins with small things.

So in small ways, if we can help others, small courtesies can make a big difference. It's even if somebody is sick, just call and ask them, are you doing well? Do you need some help? They may not even ask for the help. But if you just tell them, make a call, that itself makes them feel okay.

That's a small gesture but it matters. Or if somebody is sick and then somebody else, maybe provide some prasad or something like that, even without asking. So then gradually, through the small gestures, when we do, then people become more ready to open up.

So now, I feel selfish is a very harsh word to use. I think everybody feels insecure. And everybody feels that I have to protect myself.

Because others may not protect me. And that's why I focus on taking care of my own interests. And sometimes my own interests are so complicated that I have no time for anybody else's interests after that.

But most people are not inherently bad. Ultimately, of course, as souls, nobody is bad. But even in terms of the moods, people who are very much in tamo guna, who are completely narcissistic, or people who are sociopaths, psychopaths, they are very rare.

So there is certainly some goodness among people. But when they act on that goodness, what happens? If by acting on their goodness, they have a bad experience. They think acting on goodness is not good.

So we all can begin with small gestures. Small gestures. If somebody asks for some help, we try to provide that help.

Or we ourselves try to make some small gestures of helping each other whenever it's possible. And gradually, it will grow. Trust is something which cannot be legislated.

And I have a whole seminar on this. I think this is what I want to speak on in the Friday class also. I'll talk a little bit more about it.

Trust cannot be legislated. You cannot have trust in someone. Even if somebody is in a very close relationship, even if somebody is married to each other, in every relationship there is an obligatory side and there is a voluntary side.

So obligatory, you might do your marital roles with each other. But opening one's heart and connecting at the level of the heart, that's voluntary and that requires trust. So I'll talk about trust more in that Friday class.

Thank you. Yeah, let's go to the next one now. Yes, ma'am.

Yeah, please. Yeah, here. Yes.

Thank you. So Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. So Prabhupada, we see, progressively is moving forward.

First we talk about spiritual values. Then he talks about Krishna Consciousness. Then he talks about a community to foster Krishna Consciousness.

And now he talks about what you do as a community. It is Samkirtan. So that is, Prabhupada is coming.

I talked about the universal and the confidential. So we are in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition. And Samkirtan is an important contribution of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition to, you could say, broadly Vaishnavism or even world theism or world religion.

Coming together and joyfully chanting the holy names. So Samkirtan, it specifically can refer to the Kirtan that we do, where we come together and chant. But Samkirtan can also refer to the glorification of Krishna together.

So when we are discussing about Krishna, that is also Samkirtan. And if you look historically how Prabhupada started, we will see, Prabhupada will talk about temples later. He will talk about a place of worship.

But here he is talking, the first thing is, we need a place to glorify Krishna. And Prabhupada started the Krishna Consciousness movement with a simple storefront. And a storefront, there were no details.

There were just pictures. But there was vibrant Kirtans. Glorification of Krishna was there.

So whenever we need to focus on reaching out to people, the focus is on glorifying Krishna. Through Kirtan, through philosophy, whatever. It is a glorification of Krishna.

That's our primary activity. We want to build temples, that's good, but that's secondary. The first thing is Samkirtan.

And in fact most of us, our movement largely over the world is recognized as the Hare Krishnas. People who go out and do Samkirtan and distribute books. And that's a defining image.

Samkirtan, what is the point of this over here? The point is that we all come together to glorify Krishna. It's like if you have a circle. And if you have say a circular cloth, which has some stitches and stuff.

Now if you pull up the cloth from one side, the cloth will move but the other part will stay down. If you lift it from the other side, that part of the cloth will move but the other part will go down. But if it's like a stretched out cloth, if you pick up the center and lift it up from there, the whole cloth will move up.

Similarly, if we glorify Krishna and we are all connected to Krishna. So if we raise Krishna up, we all go up. But if we try to glorify ourselves, it's like one side going up, but then something else will go down over there.

When we glorify Krishna, nobody will become, if you are glorifying Krishna genuinely, everybody will be happy because Krishna's glories are so sweet. If you can glorify anyone else, some people will be happy, but some people, their hearts will burn. There are so many other issues which we can talk about.

We can talk about politics, we can talk about economics, we can talk about sociology. Some people are interested, some people are not interested. When we come to Krishna consciousness, we focus on glorifying Krishna.

And the glorification of Krishna is the center of our activities and Krishna's presence is experienced through the glorification of Krishna. In fact, it is said that The Lord is telling that I do not stay in Vaikuntha. I do not stay in the heart of the yogis, but I stay where my devotees glorify me.

What this means again is not literally that Krishna doesn't stay in Vaikuntha. It's not that if you go to Vaikuntha, I will say that God is absent here. Not like that.

But the point is that God's presence cannot be experienced in Vaikuntha. He is there, but how do we know He is there? He is there in the hearts of the yogis. What to speak of the yogis? He is in our own heart also.

But we can't experience His presence. But where there is glorification of Krishna, that's where we start experiencing something spiritual, something wonderful. Even atheists, if they come to some holy places, they come to a temple, they come to a church, atheists say that there is something special over here.

They may not believe in God and they may not even say that the deities are the source of something special. But they feel there are some vibes over there, something is special about this place. I feel peaceful when I come here.

It's because if the glorification of the Lord has happened over there, then that is not just for that moment, but those vibrations last. And they create a sense of peace. So that's also our purpose.

Who would like to read? Yes, please. See, Prabhupada is writing in America. So Prabhupada goes, you could say, out of the way to not use the word temple.

Isn't it? To erect a holy place of transcendental pastimes, dedicated to the personality of Krishna. So, now why is he not using the word temple? There is nothing wrong with the word temple at all. But that can seem sectarian.

And people have certain images about a temple. If you see, as I said, my friend, let us ask, what do you do in a temple? You see, traditionally, the temple was like the center of the whole village or the town or the community. People would come together and do lots of activities in the temple.

So, our purpose is to have the glorification of Krishna going on. The pastimes of Krishna are not just referred to. Say, Krishna appeared thousands of years ago and he lifted Govardhan Hill.

That's the pastime of Krishna. But Krishna Leela is also going on right now. Prabhupada is sharing Krishna Bhakti all over the world.

That's adventurous. That's Krishna acting. That's Krishna Leela in one sense.

So, when people are able to do adventurous things in Krishna's service, that's also Krishna Leela in one sense. So, this is the place where Krishna's glorification, Krishna's seva and Krishna's Leela can manifest. And now if you look at the history, when Prabhupada was in America, Prabhupada did not spend much time in building temples initially.

And just get whatever place you could. And have the glorification of Krishna going on. In LA, we got a church.

And the church, if you have seen the structure of the church, they have seats on which people sit. And then there is the central dais where the priest speaks. So, Prabhupada said at that time, when we got the LA church, he said that keep everything as it is.

And let people come in wearing their shoes. Let them sit and let them hear. And you could have the Deities elsewhere.

So, Prabhupada's stress was not so much on Deity worship. Deity worship was on getting people an opportunity to hear about Krishna. Of course, eventually what happened was the temple grew, the community grew.

And in LA, they found that that was the biggest hall that was available. So, they had to bring the Deities there. But Prabhupada was quite, you could say, radical in what it took to fulfill the purpose.

Now, when he came to India, initially the devotees in the West did not… Prabhupada's focus was not on building temples. But in India, he realized that there are so many already religious organizations, religious groups. And somehow Indians, at that time, as I said, nothing really changed dramatically.

1960s, Prabhupada left India to go to America. At that time, Indians, as I said, were quite enamored by the West. They were crippled by poverty, captivated by politics.

So, they were not really interested. Now, in 1970s, when Prabhupada came back to India with his Western disciples, the overall thing had not changed. They were very fascinated that Western people are becoming devotees.

At Times of India, there is an article. Oh, it's like, is it that those who had conquered us politically will now be conquered by us culturally? So, there was a very nationalistic kind of flavor to the whole thing. So, what Prabhupada did was, people were still not ready to become committed devotees.

If you look at our movement also, we don't have many of our first generation leaders who are Prabhupada's disciples from India. Very few. Many of our movement's leaders are Americans because that's where the movement started primarily.

Of course, second generation Indians are expanding. But at that time, the time was just not right for people to want to become committed devotees. So, what people had a lot of cultural piety.

And in India, to build a temple for God is considered to be a very great act of piety. So, what Prabhupada did was, he started the life membership program and in that life membership program, he would have people contribute something to build a temple. And for many Indians, for a sadhu to come to their house, it's considered to be a very sacred thing.

So, Prabhupada utilized that sentiment. And in India, he would like in one day sometimes visit 25 houses. Go to each house, give a brief talk and then honor a little prasad and then go to next.

And the devotees were, Prabhupada was in the 70s and the disciples were in the 20s. And they would go, but after sometime they would get tired. And then eventually, the devotees formed three groups to go with Prabhupada.

Why three groups? One group would go with Prabhupada from morning till lunch. The other group would go from lunch to evening. And the third group would go from evening to night.

Prabhupada was one common and everybody else was separate. So, Prabhupada had so much energy. And now we see, our movement has beautiful temples.

And Juhu is a wonderful temple. And that time, the Krishna Balram temple was a beautiful master marble temple. Mayapur, we are building a big temple.

Now the idea is, a temple is meant to become like a center for a community. And gradually we see that now, the temples attract people to come. And after people come, they start chanting, they get philosophy and they start growing in their spiritual life.

So, that's happened gradually. Now, but in seeing this hierarchy, the first thing is, we need to have facility for glorifying Krishna and then build a temple. But sometimes, what happens is, people come and their focus becomes on building temples.

And if that becomes too much of a focus, then the energy goes from glorifying Krishna and becoming Krishna conscious to building temples. I was at a community in America and one of the leaders was telling that, if you consider how things are happening there, now, everybody has their own work to do and then they have their families and they do some volunteer, some seva. So, they said that we have deities and it's like the proportion is 50 to 1. 50 hours for deity worship and 1 hour for outreach.

Now, that is not what Prabhupada would have wanted. We want temples, we want deities, but we want Krishna and Krishna's message being shared to be the center. So, sometimes devotees, when a community starts growing, they feel, let's build a big temple.

It's good to build a big temple, but first build a big community. Otherwise, the temple can become itself, it can become a strain then. Oh, how do we maintain this temple? Where will we get the funds? We have so many deities, how will we serve the deities? See, Krishna doesn't need a big temple.

Krishna ultimately wants our heart. And our heart can get connected with him through the temple, our heart can get connected through the chanting of the holy names, our heart can get connected with him through glorifying him, hearing his glories. So, there are certain markers of, say, you could say religious piety or external markers of religious success.

And we may get too caught in attaining those markers. And if we get too caught in that, then we build a temple, but what happens? We build a temple, but then our heart goes away from Krishna. Because our heart goes, oh, I want to raise funds, I want to raise funds, I want to raise funds.

It's one of the things which I have met when I talk with people at various other forums. Other forums means, not ISKCON temples, but general Hindu forums. Many people come and say that they feel that our temples are very commercialized.

I ask them, why do you feel like that? I have been to many temples, I have never felt like that. Of course, I am in Saffron, so I would not get the experience which everyone else gets. But still, I say, why do you feel like that? So, they said that many temples, when they go, as soon as they go, people ask, please give some donation.

Now, that should never be happening. People come, they are coming, we should give them Krishna. And then, as a way of their reciprocation, they may want to offer something to Krishna.

But if that doesn't happen, if we don't get the priorities right, now those who are asking for donation, it's not that their motive is bad. It's not that they are mad for money. They also want to serve Krishna only, they want to build a temple.

They are also thinking that, okay, this person gives donation, that will be good for them also. But even for a person who is coming for the first time, they feel alienated. Why are you asking me for money like this? So, we need to be careful that we want to have temples, but the purpose of the temple is to glorify Krishna.

And that purpose should not get sidelined in the pursuit of building a big temple. Okay. Yes.

Go ahead. Okay, so we will complete and then if we have some time, we can have questions. I want to complete all the seven first.

Yes, who would like to read sixth one? Yes. To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler, more natural way of life. Yes.

Now, we talk about simple living, high thinking, eco-friendly living. Now that has become a very big thing. When Prabhupada started it, it was, Prabhupada was in one sense a pioneer of eco-friendly living.

Prabhupada did not use that word, but Prabhupada was very big on a simple natural way of living. See, instead of simple living and high thinking, most people are simply living and hardly thinking. Just running around, doing things, doing things and hardly thinking about anything deeper in life.

Now, the simple living, what does it mean? It can mean different things at different levels. What does it mean? At one level, we could say live in a farm, just live surrounded by nature, live the way Krishna lived in Vrindavan. And some devotees are very inspired by this and they preach about this.

This is how we should have, we should replicate, we should create Varanashram, we should have farm communities, we should live like that. Now that's good, but Krishna didn't live only in Vrindavan. Krishna lived also in Mathura.

Vrindavan is like a village, Mathura is like a city. So, the point over here is wherever we are living, the simple living simply means that our living should not take so much of our energy that we don't have time for thinking. That means getting the needs of life fulfilled, that should not take so much time, if we have no time to pursue higher purpose of life.

So, whatever be our situation, how can I declutter my life? How can I make my life less complicated? Say for example, simple living might just mean that for us, we may not be living in a farm, but simple living might mean that, okay, I have got a phone, a new version of the phone has come, I want to buy it. Do I really need that new version of the phone? Just like you can have alcoholism, there can also be shopaholism. Shopaholism is shop, shop, shop, shop till you drop.

It's like that. Now, do I really need this? So, simple living, according to our level, we can see what is obsessing my mind too much, what is distracting me too much. So, the idea of the simpler our living is, the more time we will have for thinking about Krishna.

Prabhupada's point when going to farm communities was, so that we can make our life simple and we can have more time to focus on Krishna. So, we can look at our lives and see what are the things that are distracting us and consuming too much of our time. There is what we live for and what we live with.

And the two are separate things. Now, suppose you have a neighbor and they are just rushing out toward their car. Where are you going? I am going to fuel my car.

I am going to the gas station to put fuel in my car. Okay, but after that where will you go? After that I will go to the next gas station to fill my car. Oh, okay, but after that? Then I will go to the next gas station.

But where are you going? Then I will go to the next gas station. But where do you want to go? No, I will go to the next gas station so that I can fill my car. Now, obviously we need fuel to drive the car.

But that's what we are driving with. That's not what we are driving for. The two are very separate things.

Similarly, all of us need food, we need a home, we need money. But this is what we drive with. This is not what we drive for.

So, we have a house and I want a bigger house. And then what do you want? Then I want a bigger house. Then I want a bigger house.

So, that's like, to have a big house is not the purpose of life. A big house is a resource, it's a tool so that we can pursue the purpose of life. So, the simpler living, we have to see at my level, we need to differentiate.

What we are living with and what we are living for. Now, sometimes what we are living with, also we need to work to arrange it. We need to arrange for a house, we need to arrange for a car, we need to arrange for a job.

And that takes time. But that should not take so much time that what we are living for is completely forgotten. So, simplicity, it will be in one sense a relative term for each of us at our particular level.

For somebody who lives in a village, simplicity will be different. For somebody who lives in a city, simplicity will be different. For somebody who is working in software and they constantly need technology, simplicity might be different.

But simplicity simply means that we don't let what we live with consume so much of our time and thought that what we live for has no time. That's simplicity at our level. And we can see broadly our movement is also by sharing spiritual values, it's encouraging that.

Go ahead, last one. Who would like to read? Yes, please. Yes, so, in fact we could say that this has become one of the biggest activities for our movement is distributing books.

So, Prabhupada channeled the young youthful energy of his disciples by distributing. In fact, distribution, how it started was very, very facilitated. Prabhupada had published these books, he had brought Bhagavatam from India and then he tried to get Bhagavata published.

Everybody had these big, big books, but they had no idea how to distribute it. They were able to give the magazines, but once a devotee had gone to a gas station and in the gas station, they filled the gas, they were in a van and then they were just looking, they didn't have the change, they were looking for the change to pay for the gas and then the operator, he looked and saw this beautiful Krishna, beautiful book with nice pictures. He said, what is that book? He showed him that book.

And he said, that's nice. And as they were talking, the devotee said, instead of the bill for the gas, can I give you this book? Hey, it's a big book. Yeah, sure.

And that got the idea that actually you can distribute these big books. And till then they were thinking that distributing books means you have to go to a bookstore and persuade the bookstore to keep the book. But they started doing street distribution.

So distribution is one thing, but the whole idea is that we provide people material which they can keep with them and access. So the number of people who will come to the temple is very, there are many, but still it's finite. But the wisdom that is available in the temple, how can it be made accessible to people? And it's simply because Prabhupada doesn't say only books, he says periodicals, magazines and other writings.

So Prabhupada himself started back to Godhead. Then he stopped it, he wrote his books and then he asked his disciples to continue back to Godhead. That's a magazine.

Then temples can have periodicals where regularly activity, say, if some new guest is coming, then we send what is happening in that. So all that is a part of the purpose of ISKCON. Now at that time there was no social media, but through social media we can reach out to a large number of people.

So nowadays we may live stream programs or use YouTube, Facebook. All this is also a way of, the basic principle here is that people who may not come to a temple, people who may not participate in Sankirtan, we give them some way to connect with Krishna. And there is a Pure Religious Forum in America, which is the world's biggest religious forum.

And they did some study about churches and they found that in the age group of 15 to 35, about 50% of people who came to Christianity, they came through online outreach. So their introduction, their cultivation happened through online. So it's a big way in which we can reach people.

So we need to be contemporary in adopting ways by which we can share Krishna Bhakti with others. So devotees sometimes ask, is hearing class, recording of a class the same as going to a program and hearing a class live? Or is watching a live stream of a class on Facebook or YouTube, is it the same as attending a class live? What do you think? It is different. It is Achin Te Bheda Ved.

It is simultaneously one and different. It is one because we can certainly hear the class and the message can be heard. And if you're hearing attentively, it can be assimilated, it can be absorbed.

So in that sense, access to the knowledge is extended. But it is also different because hearing a class is not just the intellectual activity. It's also cultural activity.

It's also social activity. So we meet people before the class, we have a sense of community, we share with each other. So if we can come physically for class, that is the best.

But if we can't, then better than just not doing anything, hear it online. So it's meant to extend, it's not meant to replace. If you start thinking it will replace, somebody sent me on WhatsApp, I might have it also, that they call it digital puja.

So what is digital puja? I saw this video. There is this Panditji who comes to the house for the house warming ceremony. And then he comes and what he does is he opens his laptop.

And they say, where is the yajna? He is going to do yajna. He says, everything is digital. And then he starts the program and the yajna starts on the computer.

And the fire sacrifice is lit. And then he gives all the people around them like mouse, mouse extension. And then they press the mouse and a hand goes up and puts the whole thing.

So now it is, is that a yajna? Well, it is, it is like a, it is like a very remote expansion of a yajna. Yeah, there is some connection with the yajna, but it's not a little substitute. So we don't want this.

The whole idea of this is to extend, not to replace. So we use the books. Do they replace, replace live classes? No, they don't.

Many devotees, I have talked to a lot of book distribution, they say that very few people just by book distribution become devotees. People take Bhagavad Gita as it is and keep it as it is. But it is, if they get a Bhagavad Gita and then they come in the association of devotees, then, oh, this is interesting, then they will go and read it also.

So the extension is meant to, as I said, reach out to people who are not normally being reached. It is not to replace. But all of these activities, these are all broadly the purposes of the Krishna Consciousness Movement.

And ultimately, the purpose is, all these purposes are to help us become Krishna Conscious. I'll conclude with this point that when we try to share Krishna Bhakti, we may distribute books, we may give classes. When we give classes, we talk with people.

Sometimes people are interested, sometimes people are not interested. I travel across the world and sometimes people are just not interested. Maybe their neighbor is doing, maybe somebody forced them to come for a program.

So it's like sometimes I'm giving a class and the audience is looking at me as if they are watching a foreign language movie without subtitles. What is going on? So what do you do at that time? So it's important. So I asked once a senior preacher about what to do when people are not interested.

So he said, think of that class as a practice run for your future class when people will be interested. So the idea is that actually when we are speaking about Krishna, the biggest beneficiary is we ourselves. The audience benefits, that's wonderful.

And we try to help the audience benefit. But our speaking about Krishna will purify us. Our serving Krishna will purify us.

So the purposes of ISKCON are ultimately the purposes of helping us to become Krishna conscious. I'll conclude with one pastime. I think Prabhupada had come to this part of the world, Australia.

So one girl asked Prabhupada, Swamiji, if this knowledge is so wonderful, why didn't you come earlier? And Prabhupada smiled and said, because you were not born earlier. So the Krishna conscious movement is there for each one of us to raise our consciousness and ultimately attain Krishna. We are forever grateful to Sri Prabhupada that he has established this and given us the facility.

And then we try to share this facility as much as possible with others. So I'll summarize. I spoke today about these seven purposes of ISKCON.

I started by talking about how the word Krishna consciousness can seem, what is this? Why do you need a society for that? International society. But we talk about how consciousness is something you should always have. And our body needs a home.

Our consciousness needs a home. And whatever we think about, quite often it agitates us. So entertainment promises to be some shelter, but it's like a painkiller.

And if we depend only on that, then we just keep needing more and more dosages of painkillers. Like I talked about entertainment, movies, sports, cricket. So then what we need is entertainment is like the painkiller.

Enlightenment is like the actual curative medicine. And enlightenment means to understand that the supremely unchanging, supreme object Krishna, He is the home for my consciousness. It's like in an ocean we can't stop the waves.

But to not be swept away by the waves, we need an anchor. Like that in life, dualities will keep coming. So we can't stop those waves, but we can hold on to our anchor and that is Krishna.

So the society that gives people that shelter for their consciousness, that anchor for their life, that is the Krishna Consciousness Movement. And then we talked about the seven purposes. Prabhupada started this when he was just in storefront, but he had a grand vision.

The first point was sharing spiritual knowledge. I said that traditionally the brahmanas had priests and teachers. So the teaching path was lost in temples and brahmins became simply people doing priestly activity.

So Prabhupada wanted knowledge to be shared. That's why we have classes and a lot of emphasis on classes. And what is the purpose of the classes? It's for everyone without discrimination to provide the techniques of spiritual life.

How can we become spiritually conscious? And by that we can have a balance of values. It's restore the imbalance, correct the imbalance in values. So we talked about how home, temple and workplace, dharma, artha, karma, they all need to be balanced.

It's not rejecting one thing for the other, but doing everything properly in context. And then how will this foster unity? Because if people become peaceful, people become spiritual, then they can be spiritually peaceful in relationship with each other. And the second was about specifically, yes, we will talk about God consciousness, but not just God Krishna consciousness.

So we talked about there is a universal aspect, there is a confidential aspect. So we respect various traditions, but in our tradition we focus on the revelation of Krishna as given in the Bhagavad Gita. So it's like there are many parts of the mountain, but we are going up by this path and we are inviting people to go by this path.

And in this path, the revelation of God's glory, God's personality rather, personal aspect of God is very vivid and endearing. And the third was, it was about being closer to each other. So I talked about how people come to spirituality primarily because of a need for community.

People are very lonely. And within us, if we can cultivate a sense of belonging with each other by being for each other when it's needed, then not only will we become connected with Krishna, but we will attract others even without explicit preaching too much. So I talked about how our spirituality should not make us judgmental.

If people share their hearts, even if they are having some struggles, we need to be understanding with each other. And this can be a very powerful way. We have stability in our life in this world as a family, as a community, and also we have our spirituality growing up.

Then we talked about Sankirtan. So we come together, but what do we do when we come together? We glorify Krishna. And this is how, first there is a bhakti tradition, there is spiritual life, spiritual values, then there is Krishna consciousness, and now there is basically Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition.

Sankirtan is what defines us as, it's our distinctive contribution of our tradition. And this is our primary purpose, to glorify Krishna. And for glorifying Krishna, we need a facility.

That brings us to the next purpose. So for us, temples are secondary. Not that the temples are unimportant, but temple is meant to be like a place for glorifying Krishna.

And if the temple itself starts becoming, maintaining the temple, raising funds for the temple, that starts consuming our consciousness so much that we don't glorify Krishna, we don't have time and energy for glorifying, then we are getting diverted. So that's the fifth purpose. The sixth is, a simpler and more natural way of living.

What that means is, that not necessarily that everybody has to go to a farm, but that wherever we are living, we see what am I living with and what I am living for. And I don't keep increasing the standards of what I am living with so much, and then I have no time left for what I am living for. So we make a balance.

What we are living with, we come to an optimal level, so that our energy can be focused on what we are living for. Like say, if I am driving a car, I need fuel. But filling fuel is not the purpose of having a car.

It is to go to a destination. So the simplicity what it means will vary from person to person. The principle is, simplicity is the way we live, so that our spirituality can be maximized.

And lastly, we talked about how we can publish books. So the idea is, extend the reach, for those who may not participate in Sankirtan, those who may not come to a temple, then make the wisdom accessible to them. So that is through books during Prabhupada's time, writing and publishing and distributing, and now it is through social media.

And this does not replace the traditional means, but it extends the traditional means, so that more and more people can be connected, and they all can be elevated. And lastly, I said that, ultimately the purpose of all this is to help us become conscious of Krishna. These seven purposes are ways in which we can deepen our Krishna consciousness, and we try to help others, but even if others don't accept the help, we will be helped by this effort.

Thank you very much. Prabhupada Ki Jai! Gaurabhata Vrindaki Jai! Gaur Premanandai Jai! Oh, we have time? Yeah, while they are… Yes, please. Yeah.

On purpose between Prabhupada, so we said like, we need to come together, and then become close to each other, like, with devotees. So how do we do that, and be yet detached? Because we say that we need to be detached to… detached to our relationships, but, you know, we need to be detached to everybody like that. We are not… I can accomplish those, yeah.

You want to give a purport? Only Vinay Prabhu. Okay. Because in one of the lectures, Guru Maharaj was saying like, outside we should be attached, but from inside, we will be detached.

Externally attached, internally detached. So, I am thinking… Okay, I got your question. Okay, I got your question.

So, we are also meant to be detached from each other, so if we are coming closer to each other, then how can we develop detachment? Okay. There is a progressive expansion of human consciousness that happens. And, what do I mean by that? That, say, when a child is newborn, the children, you could say, are completely self-centered.

I read somewhere, what is a baby, newborn baby? It's a thing with loud noise at one end and irresponsibility at the other end. Now, we can't blame the baby for that. Because they just don't know.

Now, as the child grows up, starts thinking about others, you know. Okay, if I am hungry, I shouldn't just cry. I shouldn't wake up the whole house when I am crying, when I am hungry.

So, the sensitivity towards others grows naturally. Then, as we, if the child is playing with friends, then, the child, every child wants to win. But if the child starts adopting, I won't win at all costs.

The child may win a game, but after that, other children don't want to play with that child. Then, the child will be lonely. So, for the child, just consider other players also, other children also playing.

So, our circle of considering others gradually increases. So, when we talk about, say, family attachment, for example, the point there is that, for many people, the circle of considering others stops with the family. I'll care for my spouse, my children, but let everybody else, I don't care about.

And God, as long as God is a provider for me, I care for him. Otherwise, I don't. So, but the circle needs to keep expanding.

It doesn't stop at the family. As it grows, it grows. Ultimately, it grows to Krishna.

So, in some ways, we could say it's progressive. For myself, as the child grows up, the child thinks about the mother also. Then, the child thinks about parents, about friends.

And as you grow up, you think about others. And it's meant to keep expanding, expanding, expanding. Now, if you consider that, in one sense, it's said that, the Bhagavatam says, don't be attached to your family, don't be attached to your children.

But in Kali Yuga, in today's world, we can say, people are not attached to their family. People are not attached to their children. But they are not spiritually advanced.

They are materially degraded, you could say. So, even to have a family and to take care of a family, that requires responsibility. And that requires commitment.

And that's also, it's difficult for even that to be done. So, we want to go towards the, ultimately, we want to be attached only to Krishna. But there's an incremental process towards it.

And you could say, detachment is something which happens organically. Organically means, gradually, as we go through life, we become detached. So, if we are only pursuing material pleasure without doing any dharma, then that material pleasure will simply captivate us, we'll want more and more and more, we'll become materially entangled.

But if we are doing dharma and also doing material responsibilities, then gradually that dharma will give us realization. And gradually, our detachment will come. So, what do I mean, I'll conclude with this answer at one point.

One example, see. What does detachment mean? All of you know this well-known prayer in India. Now, what does it mean? You are my mother, you are my father.

Is it literally that God is the mother and the father? Yes. In one sense, it is true. But suppose, the mother wants a child to become a doctor and the father wants a child to become an engineer.

So, which God should the child follow? It's not that simple. What it means is, God's love comes to the child through the mother. God's love comes to the child through the father.

So, whatever shelters us in the world, we understand that that shelter is coming from God. One of the most intimate acts of love is when a mother carries a child in the womb and then newborn child, she feeds her own breast milk. It's a very special act of affection.

At the same time, the mother does not do anything special to produce the breast milk at that time. The same God who sends a child through her womb into the world also provides the milk for the child. So, whoever loves us, we don't deny that they love us.

But we don't restrict our vision to only their love. So, my mother is loving me, but it is God loving me through my mother. That's why we have Dhruv Maharaj, where his mother recognizes that I can't help him now.

She says, you go to Vishnu. And Vishnu can offer you love more than what millions of mothers like me can offer you. So, she doesn't say that her love is false.

If her love is zero, then millions of times a zero is also zero only. Her love is real. But we are all finite beings.

Even if we want, sometimes we cannot help those whom we love because of our limitations. So, if we think that, say, Mata, Pita, Bandhu, Sakha, all this love, if we say this is all false and I give it up, well, what then? What after that? If we reject that, then those who are offering us love, those who are offering us care, do we just abandon them? Not like that. We understand that the love which they are giving me, it is Krishna who is loving me through them.

They are the instrument, so I am grateful to them. But I don't restrict my vision only to them. I raise my vision towards Krishna.

And eventually, a situation may come when these channels through which I was getting love, I may not get that love. Then, if these channels I was thinking of as sources, then I will feel I am completely lost. But if I don't see that as a source but as a channel, I appreciate that it is coming from them, but I also understand it is Krishna who is coming through them.

So, sometimes it may happen that those channels we just stop, then we directly connect with Krishna. That's what happened to Draupadi. She had five husbands, but at a particular point, none of them could help her.

Then, she just directly connected with Krishna. But she didn't reject her husband because of that. So, when we say, you could say externally attached but internally attached, what it means is, broadly speaking, externally attached means we appreciate the channel.

This is the person who is loving me. This is the person with whom I have a relationship. This is the person for whom I have responsibility.

And we do it all. But internally attached means that we don't see the channel to be the source. That means if somehow, if this person goes away, for whatever reason, this person stops loving me, then I don't think that my life is ruined now.

Everything is lost. Krishna is still there and let me connect with Krishna. So, we want to come closer to each other means, it's like we need love from some channel at least in this world.

We can't directly go to the source right now. So, when we say we come closer to each other means, we understand these are the channels from which Krishna's love is coming to me. And we are grateful for that.

We are grateful for that. And we come closer to those who are giving us things, giving us some facilities, giving us some support. So, our focus in our interactions should not be so much on attachment or even on detachment.

It should be on service. If you have that attitude, service. Then if I have a child, I take care of the child.

Then this is my child, so I take care of the child. Well, okay, that could be one way of looking at it. Or you could say this is the soulless part of Krishna and he has come in this world.

And he is my care. So, then I have to take care of him. And I do that as a service.

Now, it may be because it is my child and I am taking care of the child. But if I also have the attitude of service, gradually the attitude of service will grow. Say, suppose two children are drowning.

And let's say my child is there and somebody else's child is there. Now, whose child should I save? Now, it's a difficult question. And hopefully nobody should be put in that situation.

But, you know, my child is my responsibility. Now, you think of it this way. Is it selfishness? It could be selfishness.

I am concerned only about my child. But if you think of it from the child's perspective, the child is drowning. And if that child sees my mother, my father neglected me and went to save somebody else.

What will happen to them at that time? They will be traumatized. Don't my parents care for me? So now, we take care of our child and somebody will take care of their child. It's not that I take care of my child and I drown the other child.

Obviously not like that. But it's very difficult when we do a particular action, whether we are doing it out of responsibility or doing it out of attachment. It's not so easy to discern that.

And trying to discern that also can be can be quite alienating. How do you decide that? Like I remember one devotee, he said that he became… Sometimes what happens in all religious traditions, there is an idea of a zeal of a new convert. Somebody comes new to a particular path and then this devotee, he was a young boy who came to college and he became interested in Krishna consciousness and then he went to his home and his mother had… He was staying in a hostel, so he went back home.

And then his mother was so happy to see him back. And he started quoting Chitra Ketu's pastimes. Which mother? Which father? I had so many parents in my life.

How? That's ridiculous. See, there the child has already passed away and that means that channel has already closed. And in that sense, lamenting over that is undesirable.

But here if your mother is there, your father is there, you cannot speak like that to them. So, if we are in a functional relationship right now, our focus, rather than worrying too much about whether I am getting too attached or whether I am sufficiently detached, we can focus on service. And if you have that service attitude, then gradually the relationship will become more and more spiritualized.

Okay? Thank you. Can we stop? So we have future sessions at other times and we can have Krishna answers at that time also. Thank you very much.

Hare Krishna.