9 forms of devotional service part 1 – Shravanam Kirtanam Smaranam

[Seminar at ISKCON, Brampton, Canada]

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

I was hoping to come here in the morning. So, as I mentioned, I'll speak on the nine forms of devotional service. And more than the specific forms, I'll focus on the principle of technological relationship with Krishna.

And how these specific forms, they help us in developing the relationship. This is talked about, the most well known reference is Nav Vidha Bhakti. Nav Vidha, nine types, nine forms of bhakti.

It comes in the speech of Prahlad Maharaj to Lord Krishna, to Radhikashipu. And Radhikashipu asks him, what is the best thing that you learned in school? So he says, So he says, this is nine processes of bhakti. Nine processes, nine activities basically.

Iti, kumsar, itava, vishnu. When these are offered to Vishnu, Bhakti, chena, nava, lakshana. He says these are the nine characteristics of bhakti.

Lakshana is a characteristic or a symptom. And kriyeta, bhagavad, yadda. And by doing these, one's attraction to the Lord increases.

And this understanding of how devotion is expressed and enhanced. This understanding is the most important thing that I have learned. This is the best thing that I have learned in school.

Now, I said bhakti is expressed and enhanced. There are three things over here. There is expressing bhakti, there is experiencing bhakti and there is enhancing bhakti.

So bhakti is devotion. It's the emotion in the heart. The attraction we have for the Lord.

When we have it, we express it. And when we express it, Krishna reciprocates. When he reciprocates, we get a deeper experience.

When the experience deepens, then bhakti becomes enhanced. So this way, there is expressing, experiencing and enhancing of bhakti that happens. And it happens through these forms, through these activities.

And when we talk about devotion, devotion is the emotion of the heart. But it is not just an emotion of the heart. It is actually the topmost emotion of the heart.

There are many emotions that are possible in the heart. And among all the emotions that we experience, love is the deepest emotion. And love is directed towards the highest object of love, that is Krishna.

Then it becomes the deepest form of the highest emotion. And that is devotion. And the bhakti gives a process over here by which love can be expressed, expressed, experienced, enhanced.

So let's look at these one by one. And we will look at some parallels in the way we develop relationships with each other. And we will look at some differences when it comes to developing a relationship with Krishna.

Bhakti centers on a personal understanding of Krishna. So he is a person. At the same time, he is not like any other person.

He is a supreme person. So there is the personal aspect when we relate to Krishna. There are some aspects when we relate to him like another person.

And there are some aspects when we relate to him as the Supreme Absolute Truth. We will discuss both of these. So let's start with the names.

The first name is Shravan Kirtanam Vishnu. Can you repeat these names after me as you move forward? Shravan Kirtanam Vishnu. So we will come to it.

So the first process is Shravanam. Here Krishna Prabhupada explains that hearing is the beginning of spiritual life. Like he says in one letter that the way to the soul is through the ears.

The way to the soul is through the ears. And there is no physical way literally. Not that we can reach the soul by walking along a particular path.

But the soul, we can understand our identity as soul. We can realize spiritual happenings are available at the level of the soul. All this through the process of hearing.

Now what does hearing actually entail? At a practical level, let's consider, say there are most of the people here are Indians. India cricket is a very popular game. Suppose we hear, oh there is a rising star.

A very good batsman. Now we say, oh he bats so well and he can take a match and he can smash him, kick him in the jaws of defeat. When we hear about the person we hear about what kind of batsman is this? How do they bat? So hearing is the beginning of connecting with anyone or anything.

Hearing does not necessarily mean just hearing. It might be reading also, reading something on the news. But it's basically sound that is transmitted and received by the soul.

So in a formal relationship, hearing is important. Now of course, it's interesting that most people talk about, if you show me God, then I will believe you. But the Bhagavad Gita says that शुद इक्षित पथा निर्णात कुछ सामा शुद इक्षित पथा शुद means ears, इक्ष is eyes.

So the Lord manifests on the pathway of the eyes through the ears. यद्धिया तूर्गाय भाव यद्धि तत्तर्व पुप्रणिय से सदनु ग्रहाय It's said over there, Brahmaji's prayers to the Lord says that you manifest on the path of the ears, on the path of the eyes through the ears and whichever form the devotee worships you in, you mercifully manifest in that form. Most times when people form a relationship in this world, especially nowadays when we talk about relationship, all kinds of relationships, I'm involved in the world relationship, but most people talk about the spousal relationship, the marriage partner.

So, there is this whole concept of love at first sight. It's like, oh, I saw someone and I saw that person. I felt like electricity went through my body.

I felt so charged. I feel alive. And then they attracted to each other.

That is fine. There may be some attraction that may happen right in the beginning. In some people.

The important thing is not what happens at first sight. That makes me the first sight. And this time you will see the starting point.

But the stability and the longevity of the relationship will depend on what happens after many sights. Not at first sight. You know, after we see the person repeatedly.

After we come to know about them. Initially, we may see certain physical characteristics, certain personality traits, which may catch us. But afterwards, as we come closer, then we start seeing the other side also.

At that time, the relationship is stable. It cannot be stable if it is simply based on the principle of initial attraction. Initial attraction can be an initiating point.

But eventually after that, for the patient to be stable, there has to be a phase of cut-initiation. Cut-initiation means, that this person has a side which I don't like so much. So I consciously focus on the side which I like.

I overlook the side which I don't like. And we cultivate the relationship. So, without that cultivation phase, if people don't mature in that relationship, the cultivation phase, then what happens? They fall in love and then they fall out of love.

One time they say, I can't live without you. If I live in the whole world, I can't live without her. If I live in the whole world.

And then they come together after six months. I can't live with you. So, the attraction that is there, that can be an initiating point.

But, for the relationship to stabilize, there has to be cut-initiation. And, in Bhakti also, some people say, how can it actually happen? They say, love is spontaneous. You see someone, you love them.

How can you cultivate love for someone? But actually, Bhakti is a process of cultivating love for Krishna. In the definition of Bhakti, which is given in the Bhakti Samyama Sutra, and it's written like, अनुकूल्तेन कृष्णानु शिल्वनं भगत्यत्मा शिल्वनं is cultivation. So, we cultivate a relationship with Krishna.

We cultivate an attraction to Krishna. Now, we as devotees, often use the word cultivate in a particular sense. If somebody is coming for a program, we cultivate them.

What is involved in cultivation? Cultivation means, it is an agrarian term. At first, the seed is sown, then it is watered, then it is fenced, then it is protected and nourished in whatever way is required and then that seed grows. So, when we talk about relationship being agrarian, it means something similar.

There are predatory forces. Predators, animals may come and eat the crop, like that. There can be forces which can destroy the crop.

So, that's why here, it may happen for some people, they come to a temple and they see the deities and they say, so beautiful, it's wonderful. The attraction is there to Krishna and the deities. That's wonderful.

At the same time, this stable relationship requires Shravanam. When there is Shravanam, we understand the glory of Krishna. By seeing some people may not be so attracted.

Or even if you are attracted to this deity, after some time, okay, I have seen this darshan so many times, what's so great about it? But when we hear, by hearing, we start understanding Krishna's glory. We start understanding for Krishna is the all-embracing, supreme person. And so, by perception, we see the depiction of Krishna.

By perception, by reception, aural reception, by aural reception, we get the, get the, not just the depiction of Krishna, how he looks, but we get the definition of Krishna, who Krishna is. We get the description of Krishna. And that is what attracts your heart in sustainability.

The more we hear, the more the relationship with Krishna will develop. Because, knowledge alone is not the basis of the relationship. But knowledge is the starting, is the essential starting point, is the essential fuel for the relationship.

If the relationship is released only to the level of knowledge, then it's intellectual. There will be scholars who have, scholars of history, who have done a doctorate in history, Indian history, and in terms of historical information, they will know a lot about Krishna. Okay, you know, in this book, this is said about, this Purana is said about Krishna, and this Purana is said about Krishna.

According to this archaeological thing, this is the evidence about this. They will know factually much more information about Krishna than we as devotees may know. But there is a fundamental difference between knowledge between knowing about God and knowing God.

Knowing about God and knowing God. These are two different things. What is the difference? You see, a small child is sick, and the child wants the mother to take the child to the doctor.

When the mother takes the child, now the child, the doctor made a good diagnosis, and the doctor knows the, doctor may know the blood composition, doctor may know the urine composition, doctor may know biologically about the child far more than what the mother knows. But all that is knowledge about the child. Who knows the child? The mother.

Because the child is not just a biological matter of humans. The child is a person. And knowing the person requires not just getting factual information about that person.

It means connecting with that person through a relationship. So, when we are talking about Shravanam, Shravanam is not just getting factual information about Krishna. Yes, factual information is present.

But when we are talking about Shravanam, in terms of knowing, so that it helps us to develop a relationship with Krishna. So, that's why Shravanam is best known from those who have developed a relationship with Krishna or those who are aiming to develop a relationship with Krishna. If we hear from other sources, all that we will get is some information about God.

It will not come to the mouth of God. One of Sri Prabhupada's disciples, Harigiri Prabhu, he tells that one thing about a meeting which Sri Prabhupada was so extraordinary that just by being with him, people would feel, he said, we all would feel that Krishna is a real person and Krishna would really help us if we just try to serve him. In 1968, Sri Prabhupada told his disciple that you are back to Godhead now.

And most of his disciples, they were not really, they had been hippies and they had not done any responsible work. So, he said that, I have to improvise on this book that the only thing we had done with the magazine till then was read. We had no idea about how to publish a magazine, how to print a magazine, how to distribute a magazine.

How did we do it? Sri Prabhupada said if you print about Krishna, Krishna will help you. And do you know what Sri Prabhupada talked about Krishna in such a real, tangible sense? Do you know what this means? Krishna means his God. So, this Shravanam is meant for connecting with Krishna.

It is not just for getting information about Krishna. Information is good, but when you get the information from those who have a personal connection with Krishna, then we may also develop that personal connection. In the path of Bhakti, sometimes the idea of Jnanam, knowledge, there is an ambivalent approach to it.

Sometimes Jnan is approved, sometimes it is not approved. So Sri Rajiv Goswami is one of our most prominent Acharyas and he explains in his Shastra Sandarbha, especially in the last book. He has written six books called the Sandarbhas, which elaborately analyse the philosophy and the practice of Bhakti and of Sri Krishna Bhakti based in Bhagavan.

So there he states that Jnan can be of two types. Normally when the word Jnan is used in the Vedic context, it is used in the impersonal sense. The Jnana about oneness with the Lord.

So the idea is when we acquire Jnana then we understand that we are one with the Absolute. And that kind of Jnana is Pratikunni to Bhakti. Jnana in the path of impersonalism the Jnana that we acquire focuses on the oneness with God.

The soul's oneness with God. In Bhakti the Jnana that we acquire focuses on we also accept that in essence we are one with Krishna. We are parts of Krishna and we are also spiritual.

But in Bhakti Krishna focuses on the difference between us and Krishna. We are so small and Krishna is so great that Krishna has such unlimited qualities. So the Jnana which focuses on the Ekadva of the Atma and the Paramatma Atma and Bhagwan that is not unbound and we don't encourage that.

But the Jnana that describes the Mahatma of Bhagwan the Greatness of the Supreme Lord. Now we are celebrating the appearance anniversary of Sripada Maharaja. So he would say that Narayana is Anantagudasambanna is enriched with unlimited qualities.

So understanding the glory of Narayana has a shelter of all Narayanas, a shelter of all unities. So that there is qualitative oneness between us and God. But there is also quantitative difference and in that difference lies Supreme Glory of Krishna.

So as devotees we hear the Shiravanam that we do, the knowledge that we acquire through Shiravanam, our focus is on understanding the Greatness of Krishna. And so now of course there is not just the greatness of Krishna. There is the greatness of Krishna and there is the sweetness of Krishna.

There is the Aishwarya and there is the Madhurya. These are the terms that are used in the Gaudiya Vishnu tradition. Aishwarya is the greatness, Madhurya is the greatness of Krishna.

Madhurya is the greatness of Krishna. Madhurya is the greatness of Krishna. So this understanding of God is so great, he is so sweet.

He is a supremely loving object. He is the person to whom I should direct my love. It is way I believe that I should continue with my relationship.

So Shravanam, the process of hearing, it enables us to deepen our determination to serve their officers. It increases our conviction. The more we hear about Krishna in this way.

So I wrote about three things. We focus not on seeing but on hearing. And by hearing we focus not on information but on connection.

And while I am talking about connection, we focus on the commonality with Krishna. Similarity of nature. We focus on the difference of proportion.

On Krishna's greatness and Krishna's weakness. And when we do this, when we understand about Krishna in this way. When, this means not just hearing his leela but also in the philosophy to understand his position.

And what happens by that? Our conviction to connect with Krishna becomes very strong. There is a verse in Chetan Chetanamrit which says this very very same point. Keep it after me.

So some people say, oh I am a bhakta. I am not interested in all this philosophy. I am simply interested in how my own free emotions.

There is no, Siddhanta Valiya Jitte Na Kare Alas. Don't be lazy in taking all this philosophy. I don't know.

I am not interested in this stuff. No, this is it. Eekha Peetha.

By understanding the Siddhanta, what will happen? Krishna Na Ke Sudruna Manas. My mind will become whole heartedly fixed on Krishna. And understand that Krishna is the ultimate object for my life.

That is where I should directly my devotion. And thus hearing enables us to become more deeply focused in our devotion. So the way we do this is we have nine forms of devotional service.

I will speak for about 20 minutes on each form. And then we can have, if there is one question, on that form we can take one question. And then I will move on to the next form.

Is there any question right now on Shravan? Yes. If someone is born and cannot hear, can they advance in devotional service? Okay. If someone can't hear, can they advance in devotional service? Yes, of course.

You can at least read. It is not necessary that Shravan doesn't necessarily need to hear. It basically needs reception.

Reception can be through the ears. It won't have books. The principle of bhakti is not restricted by any material circumstances.

The process of bhakti, a specific process may be restricted by material circumstances. So for example, say if I get a car accident, I can't come to the temple. Then I might not be able to do anything.

So that physical process, that specific process may not be possible under certain circumstances. But the principle of devotion, that can never be limited. So, The process of bhakti is uninterrupted.

The principle of bhakti is uninterrupted. Specific forms of bhakti may be interrupted for some people. So if somebody can't hear, they may not be able to take classes.

But they can pray. Based on the reading, they can understand. They can pray.

And they can connect with Krishna in other ways. The thing is, we listen to so many things about the God. Even I have listened to so many things about the God.

Different Aksaryas and so many different gurus. The thing is, when you listen, you focus, you remember everything. But sometimes what happens is, when you go back to samsara, to the family, then when you apply those knowledge, sometimes you don't get a chance.

And sometimes those things never come in your mind. And what happens is, even though you heard so many things, but at some point, when you go back to the samsara, when we go back to the family, you forget everything. And so what's the way, just to keep those principles of it? We hear a lot, but we are unable to apply.

At that time, the students don't seem to remember that we need to apply. Yeah, that is a problem for all of us. And the first thing we need to know is that hearing itself is beautiful.

Even if we don't apply anything, just by hearing about Krishna, we are getting to Krishna. Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't not try to apply. But it's just that hearing itself is beautiful.

By hearing, we are connecting to Krishna. So, now, when we hear, our mind has certain tracks. So, say for example, this floor is inclined this way.

And if water falls on that floor, the water will naturally flow in this direction. Now, even if I have got a drain over here, I cannot get the water to flow naturally there. I have to push it.

So, similarly, based on the way we have acted in this and previous lives, our mind has developed certain inclinations. So, the thoughts, desires, intentions naturally flow in that direction. And that is why we may decide to act in a particular way, but we end up acting in a different way.

That wherever the water is inclined, where the floor is inclined, our mind is inclined. Now, if I don't want the water to flow in this way, I need to put conscious force, conscious effort. So, I may need to use a broom or something which will push the water in the other direction.

So, the whole process of Sadhana Mantri is the process of voluntary force. Nobody else can force me, but I have to force myself. I don't feel like doing it, but I force myself to do it.

Why? Because I know this is the intention. And I know these feelings are coming, they will come, they will go. But my intention is much stronger.

My ultimate intention of life is what is more important. So, basically, in Bhakti, in any process of purification, the process of purification involves the tension between intention and emotion. My intention is to do a particular thing, but my emotion is that I feel like doing something else.

So, in this tension between intention and emotion, that is there, what is it that wins depends on which is the one we identify with. So, if I identify with emotion, then I don't feel like doing this. I may not, but if I identify with intention, this is my real solution.

This is what I am going to do. Then we can do it. Now, we cannot fight too many wars at the same time.

We cannot. We fight as one or two friends. So, we may hear many things in different classes.

Something which really connects with us, which really convinces us, which really inspires us, we take that and make a tangible plan to apply that for a fixed period of time. I may hear many other things, I will take them, but I will focus on applying this one thing maybe for the next one week, next one month. Generally, to make lifelong resolutions, it's very difficult to sustain.

So, it's better to make some finite duration resolutions. So, for example, we hear a class about the importance of studying scripture, importance of hearing. Then we feel, okay, every day, at least for 15 minutes, half an hour something, I am going to study scripture.

When I decide that, at that time, next day, we hear some other class, how important chatting is. I say, now I am going to chat properly. It's good to try to improve in some aspects of life.

But at one time, focus on one thing. And then try to cultivate, try to create as many reminders and pointers for that. So, we need help.

See, the mind usually chooses the path of least resistance. So, if I decide that I am going to study scripture today, then keep scripture ready. Otherwise, and I have some time also, then I think, okay, maybe I can just check my Facebook messages.

If I have a book ready, then what happens? Yeah, let me read. So, once we make a, we need to, we need to help ourselves to apply our resolutions. How do I help ourselves? By making the application as easy as possible.

Or by removing obstacles in the application. So, if I decide I want to read, just focus on one thing at a time. And only focus on that one thing.

Make whatever resources are required as easy as possible. Keep the book, or maybe have the book in your phone, or whatever, digital copy, whatever. If possible, one of the best ways to set an improvement is having an accountability partner.

That means, someone we are accountable to. If we have another friend, who also will do, we make the resolution. Now, we will start script-checking.

So, we will not sit together and read. But, even if we meet once a week, say, you know, oh, I read, you know, I was planning, if I read 15 lines every day, I can read 5 pages. That means, in a week, I can read, 35 pages.

So, last week, I read 30 pages. I said, I read 40. Oh, you read 40.

Next week, I'll read 40. So, this is small cause we have to give access. So, that way, when we, in this small situation, help, basically, the water is going to flow this way.

But, if the water is flowing that way, I will need something by which to push the water in the other direction. So, what are the aids which I can have for pushing the water in the other direction? First aid is, we make this real. So, one is the accessibility of the resource.

Others, the friends, or other partners who are helping do the same thing. Like that, we can find out what are the resources that we can use. And focus on one thing.

And do one thing. And then, even if you think, chanting is very important, I want to do that. Or devote yourself is very important.

I want to spend quality time and devote this. Whatever. Okay, let me do this for one month right now.

Next month, I'll do that. So, that way, we take one thing at a time and do something tangibly. And then, next month, we may be inspired to do the same thing or be inspired to focus on something else.

But, we can improve various aspects of our life. Nancy, question? Yes, sir. Okay.

So, we'll move on. So, shravanam kirtanam vishnom shravanam kirtanam vishnom The second part is kirtanam. Kirtan means speaking.

Now, kirtan can literally mean singing also. But, in this context, it refers especially about speaking about Vishnu. So, in hearing, ideally, hearing should be active.

That means, when I'm hearing, I'm trying to comprehend and understand what is what. What does this mean? Does this make sense? Does this make sense? So, hearing, if it is active, then we learn a lot more. But, in hearing, it is easy to fall into passivity.

Passivity means, just somebody is speaking and, you know, how much is going inside, how much is being processed. I don't know anything about it. So, Shri Prabhupada said in one lecture that we should not hear like a pig.

This is what it means. How does it mean hearing like a pig? You know, a pig may have big ears, but, you know, nothing goes inside. There is no comprehension inside.

So, how can we ensure that we comprehend? How can we make the process of hearing from passive to active? That is by speaking. Speaking. So, when we start speaking about what we are hearing, that forces us to hear more attentively.

It forces us to check whether we have understood or not. And, you know, in any form of learning, one of the easiest ways to deepen the learning is to shift one's role from a student to a future teacher. Not in the presumptuous sense that I want to displace and replace my teacher.

But then, the knowledge has to go on. So, if after a class, like, if after a class, say we are going to meet with some friends and everyone says, what point did you like? What point did you like? Then, just that thought, I want to stick some point out of the box. That forces us to hear which point inspires us.

So, kirtana is basically that what we have heard. So, shravan involves the ears. All of these are ultimately meant to involve the soul, consciousness.

So, but the soul's consciousness manifests through the body, I guess. And so, the more the bodily organs, bodily limbs we involve, the more the consciousness gets involved. So, when we are hearing, the ears are involved.

When we are speaking, the tongue is involved. And, kirtana, to some extent, changes our role in Krishna consciousness from a guest to a host. You know, it's like somebody, you know, somebody comes to a temple for the first time.

You know, we, you know, we welcome them and then, yes, they come. And, we talk nicely with them and we tell them about Krishna and invite them to come here. Now, next time when they come, if they become a friend, then for that friend, they have become a host.

And, you know, this is like, this is like, this is like this. And, when that happens, then they are taking a greater level of ownership. This is the place which I am in already.

Come here. So, just as that can happen and if we see, oh, you brought your friend. That indicates, you know, not only did you come back, you liked it so much that you invited your friend also.

That indicates a substantially higher level of connection and commitment. At least a deeper level of appreciation. So, similarly, what we can, what applies to the physical structure of a temple, a person may change from the role of a guest to a host.

Similarly, it can apply also to the philosophy. So, when somebody starts speaking about Krishna to us, well, that means they are not just guests to the philosophy, they have become hosts to the philosophy. So, speaking means we shift our role from guest to host.

And that forces us to go deeper, to take up ownership, to understand. You know, first time I come to a temple, okay, I know what is here. What is there? Okay, I don't know.

But the next time I find out, okay, what is over there? Now, which is that picture? Who is that particular person? What does that image mean? So, I want to know more because I want to explain to others. So, when we do Kirtan, at that time, we are forced to learn more and more. And actually, this was, if you consider Shri Prabhupada's presentation of Krishna Bhakti, there are many distinguishing features.

If you consider many traditional Hindu temples, as far as preserving the culture of piety that was there in Hinduism, many temples have done that reasonably well. Although, many temples, like many churches, are deserted in India. Like churches are deserted in America and Europe.

Many temples are deserted in India also. But still, people do have pious instincts because they go to temples. Shri Prabhupada focused the temple is not just a cultural centre.

It's also an educational centre. So, cultural centre means, we can just go to temple, sit down, wear a ring, offer some mudra and leave. But educational centre means hearing.

Regular hearing. And after hearing, Prabhupada not only encouraged devotees to hear, he encouraged them to speak. Now, there were devotees who practiced two, three years practicing bhakti and these were not even people who were born and brought up in the culture.

They just two, three years practiced bhakti and he told them, you go to a new country and open a centre. Prabhupada, how do you speak? Prabhupada, whatever you offer, how do you speak? Whatever you read in the books, you speak. So, when we start doing kirtanam, then, we, we, in a sense, as I talked, sadhana bhakti is voluntary force.

Why voluntary force? He said, because we have to apply it to ourselves. It's voluntary. Force means there's a resistance.

You don't feel like doing it. So, then voluntary force, one of the ways of applying this voluntary force to ourselves is to make a kind of commitment for kirtan. A commitment for sadhana is a good thing.

Okay, once a week, I'll come to the temple or whatever time, but once the ashram allows, I'll come to the temple, I'll attend the programs. That is very good. But if you make a commitment to speak, commitment to share, then that will very powerfully enable us to deepen our understanding and to deepen, strengthen our connection with Krishna.

When we speak about Krishna, what do we speak about him? The knowledge about Krishna is vast. It's oceanic. And usually, we will speak about those things that speak the most to us.

We will naturally speak about things that speak naturally to us. So, whatever it is, it connects with us. When one of the scientists decided on an episode of Damodar Maharaj, he was talking about Dr. T.V. Singh.

He came and got introduced and he became inspired by Shri Prabhupada's example, by Shri Prabhupada's teachings. And Prabhupada told him, you speak the same message in the language of the scientists. Now, in the language of the scientists, what does it mean? Most scientists speak in English.

But here, language is not referring to languages of the scientists. It is talking about a conceptual framework in which people discuss, in which people understand. So scientists have a conceptual framework, particular way of thinking, analyzing.

So Prabhupada said, you explain in their language. When we explain in their language, that means they will be able to understand. Prabhupada would often say, I'm not a scientist.

He had scientific knowledge also, but in his humility he said, this is your responsibility. You speak in their language. And this is where we get the concept of realization.

Now realization, what does it mean? Realization means, that which is a reality, we understand it to be a reality. Realization means, that which is a reality, when I understand it, I understand it, I accept it, I experience it to be a reality. So for example, you say, scripture tells us, that, that wealth does not bring happiness.

The whole world is telling us, the more money you have, the more you can enjoy life. Now, what does it mean, what does it mean? Intellectually, everybody, even materialistic people say that, they have their course, money can provide you a bed, it can't provide you sleep, money can provide you medicine, it can't provide you health, people are quite like that. But still, materialistic people are completely gone with money.

Money is of course important as a function of life. But, the idea that money cannot bring happiness, we may intellectually accept it, but practically, okay, okay, but you know, I need money to be happy. But suppose, you know, we go and meet somebody who is very wealthy, and they have a huge bungalow, a whole fleet of cars, and my God, this person is so wealthy, and then we go in and then we talk with them, and then especially, you know, in material life, everybody is in a very, in a phase of great competition, everybody wants to prove that I am superior to them, I am better than them, and that's why they put on a facade.

For example, if somebody who is in the now sort of goes to them, but they don't feel that person is competent at all, they just open their heart, so they may tell, you know, actually, super wealthy person is there, but he tells that, you know, my son, he has become a drug addict, and I don't know what to do about it. My daughter, she ran away with someone, and she hasn't even contacted me. You know, my relatives, my wife passed away because of cancer, many years ago.

All my relatives are just waiting for me to die, so that they can get on my property, get my inheritance. And there, this person is so lonely, so suspicious, so insecure, and get that experience, and then it registers. Oh, actually, money doesn't really bring happiness.

So that is the scriptural reality, but when we get this experience, then what will happen? Then we'll get the realization. Oh, yes, money will not make me happy. Now, for this, what is required? For this, we should be able to connect our experience with scripture.

The experience that we have in life, I should be able to connect with scripture. Then I'll get this realization. But if I have not heard adequately, if hearing is not there, then what will happen? If, say, somebody goes and meets a wealthy person like this, and this wealthy person says, no, we have no one.

If I just act as if I'm close to you, maybe you'll give your property to me. And people will just try to ingratiate themselves with that person, and then they just completely miss the point that wealth cannot really happen, that wealth did not make this person happy, but if wealth comes to me, I will become happy. So, delusion becomes like that.

So, as I said, wealth is necessary for me, but the problem comes when instead of seeing money as something we live with, money becomes something that we live for. Money is a means for me, but when money becomes the purpose for me, that's a problem. So, when we do kirtana, the kirtan that we do, the Krishna Katha that we speak, that will be most powerful when we speak it in our language, with people who speak the same language.

So, as I said, that if there's a scientist, and as I said, if we are interacting with the wealthy people, and we have this experience, by connecting our experience with our scriptural hearing, what we get is a realization, and when we get that realization, then we share that realization with others. And that is what connects with people. That is what connects with people.

So, kirtanam is repetition, but it is repetition with realization. So, kirtanam is repetition with realization. Prabhupada explains that realization means to speak in a way that is interesting to the audience.

So, what is interesting to the audience? This is scriptural knowledge. This is the current world. Scriptural knowledge is a vertical tradition.

This is the current world. Now, we as scriptural practitioners are at the junction between the traditional knowledge that is coming from the past and world around us. Through those experiences when we share spiritual knowledge, then people can connect with it.

So, kirtanam, it not only connects us deeper with scripture. It shifts our role from the guest to the host. That is with respect to the knowledge which we have received.

But kirtana also, it compels us to see the world around us with shastra jaksha, with the eyes of scripture. Okay, I had this experience. How does it make sense in the light of scripture? How do I understand this? How can I appreciate this? So when we look at the world through the eyes of scripture, and then we get deeper understanding, we share that understanding, that is a very powerful way of not only deepening our own understanding, but also connecting with others.

So when we do kirtana, the idea of doing kirtana is at one level to take the knowledge deeper into ourselves. The idea of that is to connect with people. So that is why we should never feel that we are disqualified from kirtana.

In bhakti, we are, we may be unqualified, but we are never disqualified. We may be unqualified, when others are so pure that we can say that I am purely serving Krishna. We all have our desires.

We want to be praised by others. We want to be appreciated by others. We have those desires.

But along with that, we have desires in Krishna also. We have our own sinful desires in our hearts. We have not just desires, we have our conditioning by which we act also.

So in that sense, we are not qualified. We are unqualified. But Krishna is so merciful that in bhakti, we are never disqualified.

Unqualified means we don't have necessary qualification to practice. But disqualified means we are not allowed to practice. So in bhakti, no one is disqualified.

Even if we are very new, for kirtana, we are never disqualified. Whatever we have heard, whatever we have understood, whatever has been spoken to our heart, whatever is connected with our heart, we try to share that with others. And when we do this, we find that our understanding will deepen and we will be able to share, we will be able to connect with others also.

Kirtana, we do it according to our level of realization. Sometimes in the early stages of spiritual life, we may become a little fanatical. Fanatical in the sense that we become very proud if we somehow are able to practice some principle which nobody else is practicing.

Then we become very proud. I want to say, this is wrong, this is wrong. So initially we say, I will hear that Anikadasi should fast.

And then I fast in Nirjala Anikadasi. And then when I am fasting in Nirjala Anikadasi, I go to the kitchen and see who all are eating what. So attached.

So when I am doing that, what am I doing? My body is fasting but my ego is feasting. So when we do kirtana, our purpose is not just to speak about Krishna. We say, this is the right thing, this is the wrong thing.

I want to speak it. You should fast Anikadasi. If you are not fasting, you are attached.

It's not like that. There are various levels at which you can fast. The important thing is, when kirtana is to be done, it is not just that we are meant to speak about Krishna.

We are meant to speak about Krishna in a way that attracts people to Krishna. We have to speak in a way that attracts people to Krishna. If we speak in a way that alienates people from Krishna.

Now if we speak just to show our knowledge, to show our moral superiority over others, then people get put off. I was in Texas. Texas is considered to be like, in Texas in America is considered to be like a Christian state.

There are some countries So there I saw one car. It had a bumper sticker on it. Oh God, please save me from your preachers.

Now, God actually saves us through his preachers. He says, come to know about him through his preachers. But if the preachers are condescending, if they are self-righteous, if they have a holier-than-thou attitude, then people get alienated.

Please God, save me from these people. So when we do kirtanam, we have to do it in a way, not with a position of moral superiority, that I am practicing all this, you are not doing it. No, it is a simple move of service.

Somehow by Krishna's mercy, by Krishna's devotees, they have taught me something. I learned something. And I am sharing this with you.

It is not that we are better than them. It is simply that we are more fortunate. When I say better, then I take the credit for myself.

When I say I am more fortunate, it means I am a recipient. And I am grateful to those who have given it to me. The credit is not to me.

The credit is to those who have given it to me. So we see ourselves as more fortunate than others, not morally superior to others. Even if it may be true that they are practicing something which are wrong, there may be something which are wrong, morally, spiritually wrong, but still our focus should be not so much on being judgmental and saying this is right, this is wrong.

Our focus should be on helping them become attracted to Krishna. This is the process of kirtanam, which helps us, as I said, kirtan forces us to move from being a guest to a host in the philosophy. Kirtan not only connects us deeper for kirtan, when we get realization, that means we hear and we experience.

We correlate our experience with our hearing. Then because our experience is similar to the experience of others, then in their language, in a way that makes sense to them, we can speak. And then by kirtan, we can connect ourselves with Krishna more and we can connect others also with Krishna.

And by doing kirtan, we get repetition with realization and further when we do kirtan, we focus primarily not just on speaking in a group, but speaking in a way that attracts people to the group. We should not think that we are morally superior. At the same time, we should not also think that I am morally unqualified.

Morally, we are not, we are disqualified. Because we may not qualify, but we speak as a service to Krishna. And that takes us closer to Krishna, but it helps others also come closer to Krishna.

So that is about kirtanam. Any questions? So while we talk, we talk according to the real. While understanding also, maybe we try to understand what our gunas are.

Let's say if I am thinking scientifically or mathematically, you might understand and you might speak as well. So how do we avoid speculation? So when we try to get some realization and speak with realization, how do we avoid speculation? Prabhupada explained the difference between philosophical speculation and mental speculation. We often use the word speculation in a negative sense.

But speculation is itself not negative. Prabhupada himself used the word anumar when he comes to America and he writes a mark in the Bhagavad Dharma. Then he says, आचे कित्यु काजे तर्वे एनी अनुमान। नहीं के का आली बेना एनी हुवर्षणान। I guess, there must be some purpose because of which you brought me here.

Otherwise, why would you bring me to this place? So Prabhupada said, I guess. So when there is no certainty of knowledge, at that time we guess. So now, guessing itself is not wrong.

It is when we guess and claim that guess to be a correct thing. That is when the problem comes. So the difference between mental speculation and philosophical speculation is, in mental speculation, both the process and the goal are up for grabs.

In philosophical speculation, the goal, this is what scripture says, this is true. Now, how exactly it is true? I will use the reasoning to understand it. So we use our intelligence to figure out how is it true.

So we accept what scripture says to be true. But we use our intelligence. For example, in the Bhagavad Gita it says, कृष्णा इन देश्टो वसोहां उसकाम्देव। Now what does this exactly mean? Now if you consider from the point of moral science, science says that actually water has no taste.

It is not literally true. Because if we drink water from different places, we do have different tastes. The water of different rivers is different.

So there is definitely some taste to it. But the taste in the terms of, say, we may have sugar or sweet or salty, the direct taste is not true. What exactly does this mean? Because I am the taste of water.

Now if we look at Samkhya, Samkhya explains that that particular sense object is associated with particular elements. So this form is associated with, so say, smell is associated with earth. There are different sense objects associated with certain, certain perceptions associated with certain senses.

So taste is associated with water. So what it means is that whenever we see something tasty, what happens? Water starts forming in the tongue. It's life.

So it is water that enables us to access all tastes. Some people doesn't receive it. You know, people, their tongue doesn't form any saliva on them.

So when that happens, they can't taste anything. Even the most delicious food items, they can't taste. So it is water that makes all tastes accessible.

When Krishna says, I am the taste of water, what does it mean? He is the means by which all tastes become accessible to us. He is the fundamental foundation for all tastes. So this is one way of understanding it.

So we take Krishna's statement, we accept his statement. But then we use Samkhya influence. We use Samkhya analysis, Samkhya is the Vedic system of analysis to understand this.

So if we have some doubts about a particular kind of reason that we have come up with, we can consult some senior devotees and check it with them. The danger is that that firstly, we might just, in the process of reasoning, we may reject the scriptural truths. That is something which we have to be very careful about.

Like some people say that they feel uncomfortable. How could God have allowed for so much violence? Why would God call for war? So they say, actually the whole Bhagavad Gita is simply metaphorical. There is no Kurukshetra war, there is no Kurukshetra.

It is all Arjuna represents, Pandavas represent. The good side is in us, the Kauravas represent the bad side in us. And Kurukshetra is the human body.

Now, this is not explaining the Bhagavad Gita, Kurukshetra is explaining away the Bhagavad Gita. So yes, the metaphorical explanation is also fine. We can say, there is a good side, bad side, there is a war going on with us.

Between us, between the good side and the bad side. But the metaphorical explanation is an addition to the literal explanation. The Kurukshetra as a geographer takes us to a place, the story is lucid, a war took place in that place.

So, when we, we put even the conclusion up for grabs, then it goes in the zone of mental explanation. But we accept the conclusion and then we try to reason and understand how does this conclusion work out. That is philosophical explanation.

And that is actually very essential. Because that's how things will make sense to us. And that's how we will be able to help others make sense of things.

So we, for, especially points that are difficult or sensitive, then we can always consult a devotee, discuss with them and we can understand. And for this, we need like-minded association. For some devotees, they can really have to think so much.

This is a child education we have. If we have an intellectual need, we just can't do it. I need this to make sense, I need this to make sense.

So find out devotees for a similar disposition and discuss with them. And then, when they say, this is not so good at this point, this is not so good. Because this is the problem with this.

This is the problem with this. Okay, I will not use this. Okay, I understand this.

So we can discuss, consult similar devotees. And then, as long as the conclusion is maintained, and as long as the reasoning that we do for arriving at the conclusion does not contradict any other philosophical aspect. For example, somebody says, I want to give a contemporary example for the body and the soul.

So, suppose somebody says, the body is like the mobile, and the soul is like the battery. Okay, it's a reasonable example. But the problem is, the battery gets discharged.

The soul is eternal. In fact, the battery, actually, the battery gets charged in the last week. It's shorter than the mobile.

The soul actually outlives the mobile. Outlives the mobile. So, this is not the best example.

We may use it for a particular purpose. But we have to be careful. So basically, we may use contemporary examples and do some kind of a reasoning for that.

But we have to associate and clarify with similar devotees. With like-minded devotees. And then we can get a proper understanding.

Did you understand what I just said? Yes. Can we have question and answer later? You don't mind? Okay. Okay.

Okay. It's not necessarily false ego. See, so, scripture teaches us something.

And, if we want to understand it according to our level of realization, is it like our false ego trying to massage it and trying to re-exist it to through clarification so that it becomes intelligible at our level? It need not be false ego. It is, it may just be the intellectual need for us. And all of us are of different natures.

Some people, when they come to the temple, for them, the temple is very clean. Oh, that's very good. And some people are unclean.

No, uncle should clean it anyway. For some, they are cleanless. You could say their cleanliness side is very strong.

For some other people, they are very musical. So if somebody is playing one musical tune, just can't absorb it. Just can't do it.

So, for somebody, they come to the temple, one devotee, he used to come to the temple, every time, every morning when he would take darshan, he would go and he would be directed to the jail. Do not put this flower properly. Do not put this like this.

Do this like this. That's what he used to do. So, like that.

And now, that's the way they are. So, for some of us, we may be intellectually conditioned. So, for us, we need to make sense of things.

Just can't live without it. So, if that is the case, we could call it false ego, but that is a, but dismissing it as false ego is harsh. Because for that person, it's a need.

So, what we can do is, that person, okay, this is the understanding which makes sense to me. This may not be a complete understanding. There may be deeper aspects to it which I don't understand.

But at the level which I am at, I need to make some sense of it. And this is how I make sense of it. And we move onwards.

As it is, we don't get a complete picture of reality. But the picture of reality that we get, we need to make some sense out of it. So, Prabhupada was expert at that.

Once Prabhupada was asked, by an MP, what is the bliss of Vaikuntha like? And Prabhupada, you know this MP had just come out of travelling news, and he was asked, what is the bliss of Vaikuntha like? And Prabhupada replied, oh, it is like an ocean of energy. Now, for some reason, I said, no, actually, the pleasure of transit, Tamasic, is the mode of ignorance. Vaikuntha is transcendental.

How is Prabhupada comparing this with that? Now, Prabhupada has in other places in the scripture talked about how exalted Vaikuntha is. But at that point, for that person, that's the understanding that works. So, yeah, ocean of energy, I want to go there.

So, we should see that, when we are studying scripture, or teaching scripture, the point is not just to get it right. The point is also to get it across. Get it across.

We have to make it understandable to people. And we also have to make it understandable to ourselves. So, suppose somebody comes and gives a class in perfect Sanskrit.

They got it all right. But they got nothing across. The audience doesn't understand Sanskrit.

What is the use? So, with respect to a verbal language, we understand the difference. Now, I can't understand this language. But just as there is a verbal language, we all have a conceptual language.

The way we think is shaped by our worldview, from where we come. And we need things to be present in that way. So, serving an intellectual leader is a service.

And we need to associate with devotees who can do that service. And through them, we will get the appropriate understanding. Is the answer your question? So, we discussed Ravana, Krishna and Vishnu.

Let's go to second level. Third level is Smaranam. Smaranam is remembrance.

The whole process of Bhakti Yoga is centered around remembrance. When we love someone, we naturally remember that person. A mother, she loves her child.

The child may be in school. The mother is thinking, what's in my bed? My child needs me. So, I am taking him in.

Will he or she like it or not? How much will he eat properly or not? Thoughts are always going to the person whom we love. So, at one level, remembrance is the result of love. When we love someone, actually we remember that person.

In Bhakti, remembrance is also the way to love. When we love someone, we remember them. But by remembering them, we develop our love for them.

Now, how does this happen exactly? All of us, we can say, are souls who are suffering from amnesia. Amnesia is forgetfulness. You may have seen in some movies, maybe there is some, say, son of a millionaire or billionaire who is going along mountains by car and then the car skids off the road, falls off into a deep valley.

He somehow jumps out of the car. The car explodes. He falls deep into the valley down somewhere.

And he falls in a falls in a pile of hay or something. There is a crisis going on there. The drivers, they come back.

They get him back to consciousness. And he's got a big blow on his head. He can't remember anything.

Who are you? What is your name? I am. I am. I am.

I can't remember my name. I can't remember my name. He is panicking.

He doesn't know what to do. So now, there, the drivers don't know what to do. So, they give him a name.

And they give him a room. He starts living over there. And then, his father comes searching for him.

And when his father comes, all of a sudden, he says, Oh, my son! Son? My son? I can't recognize him. Then, what happens? Father, he forgot everything. Then what happens? If a person got amnesia, one way of curing amnesia is by bringing stimuli from the memories.

Do you remember his watch? Do you remember his pen? Do you remember his shirt? Do you remember his jacket? Do you remember his binoculars? Gradually, the memories start coming back. And the stimuli from the past are repeatedly provided to the person. So, like that, we, as souls, have forgotten Krishna.

And the process of bhakti centers on exposing us to stimuli connected with Krishna. Bloody dreams, the holy name, the message of Krishna, Krishna Katha, all the pictures about Krishna, all these are stimuli. And these stimuli are all meant to awaken our dormant spiritual memory.

To the extent, we expose ourselves to those stimuli and not just expose ourselves to stimuli, but take in those stimuli, then to an extent, our dormant spiritual consciousness will be awakened. And when we, the more we expose ourselves, the stimuli, again and again and again, the more we find that our attraction to Krishna will increase. Why? Because as souls, we have a natural attraction to Krishna.

And that just needs to be reawakened. That means, the soul has the potential to love Krishna, the potential needs to be just activated. And by exposing ourselves to Krishna, that latent dormant love for Krishna will awaken.

So smaranam is, in that sense, it's remembrance, which is which at initial stages there may be no affection involved. You just remember because it's a need. Krishna talks about various levels at which you can practice bhakti.

In the 12th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, from 12.8 to 12.10, 12.8 he says, He says, that just fix your mind. Engage your intelligence in it. And he says, in this way, you will live in me.

Not that you will attain me in future. It's almost that you have attained me now. You are already living in me.

Because where our mind and intelligence is, that is where we actually are. But then somebody should start bhakti. So Krishna, from 12.8 to 12.10, he uses one step down, one step down, one step down.

He uses various levels. The next verse he says, If you cannot fix your consciousness, then what do you do? You do Abhyasa Yoga. You do Abhyasa Yoga.

Practice remembering me. Cultivate the remembrance of me. What will happen by this? By this, your desire for me will become stronger.

You will get the desire for me. So Krishna is saying, just by fixing the mind, by remembering him, our attraction for him will increase. When we have a desire for it, desire for something, that means we are attracted to it.

So then desire will increase. The Smaranam, when we do, what does it actually mean to do remembrance? Remember Krishna. Smaranam is recollection.

But it is not just a recollection in the sense of living in the past. Normally when we have recollection, my childhood I used to go here. My childhood I used to play this.

My childhood I used to do that. It's recollection. Normally when we talk about recollection, we talk about going in the past.

And some people just live in their memories. Especially people who are old and now, they don't have loved ones. They live in their past.

That's where some joy is. So bhakti is not talking about that kind of recollection. When we are living in the past.

The recollection is more a matter of intention. Intention means, say that say a person is having a job and then their job is away from where they live. In a different city.

So when they are in that city, they will be away from their family and they will be at their office meeting this person, pacifying that customer, managing employees, dealing with the boss. They are doing all these things. But deep within their intention is, I am doing all this for my family.

When they have a picture of their family in their wallet or their phone, they think, I am doing all this for them. So, it is not that they will be sitting there and thinking, what is my spouse doing, what are the children doing. They may do that once in a while.

But even if they are not sitting and doing like that, the intention is there. I am doing this all for them. So the recollection, the smaranam, the recollection that is there, it is more of a driving intention.

Recollection in bhakti is not about living in the past. It is about the intention that drives us in the present. For whom am I doing this? So, we as devotees need to be engaged in the world.

We have our jobs, we have our families, we have our particular responsibilities. And we do all those things. Even those who are in the renounced order, they also have interactivity.

And while interacting with the world, it is not that we should always remember Krishna. It is not that we have to be some kind of schizophrenics, where half of our brain is doing the work and half of the brain is remembering Krishna. It is not that Arjuna was shooting arrows and while he was shooting arrows, he said, okay, Karna is attacking like this, I will attack like this.

It is not that he was thinking about Krishna with half of his brain. No, his whole brain was focused on fighting the war. But he was fighting that war for Krishna's sake.

Similarly, for us, when we say we should remember Krishna always, it is not about living in the past. It is primarily about changing our intentions, that Krishna becomes our life. Whatever I am doing, I am doing it for Krishna.

Mishra Prabhupada once, there was a Vyasa Puja offering. In the later years, 1975, 1976, 1977, at that time, there were literally hundreds, thousands of devotees would come. And when Prabhupada's Vyasa Puja was going on, there were devotees who were glorifying him.

The devotees were bathing his feet. And as one of the devotees was bathing his feet and was taking the water from there, Charnamut, Prabhupada just spoke, Krishna, just see how your love is being honoured. Prabhupada was not thinking, I am such a great person, see how these people are worshipping me.

Prabhupada was thinking, Krishna, I am your servant. They are just appreciating yourself. So, for him, even when he was taking honour from others, he was remembering, I am doing all this for Krishna.

So the recollection of Krishna is a driving intention for a devotee. And, now how does this driving intention come? It's not something which will come by doing the magic wand. It's not that, no, we just do whatever we are doing and we think, now I am doing it for Krishna.

No. We want to have that aspiration, that intention. But that requires some time for direct connection with Krishna also.

Without the direct connection with Krishna, our indirect connection with Krishna, indirect connection with Krishna is, you are doing the work, but you are doing it for Krishna. The indirect connection with Krishna will not be authentic, will not be deep, if there is no time for direct connection with Krishna. And that's why we need time to come and associate with devotees.

We need time to come and come and chant the holy name. We need time to worship the deities. Some people are saying that, oh, no, Bhagwan Kanand Chaudhary ghande alla chalu hai.

All the names of God, I am chanting 24 hours a day. The question comes, if it's going on 24 hours a day, why can't it come out for one minute also? You know, nowhere else in no other relationship, you know, if a husband tells his wife, wife says, you know, we don't have food at home. He says, I love you.

He says, you know, we need money. Husband doesn't go for any job. I love you.

What is that love? Love has to be expressed through action. So like that, similarly, if there is love inside, it should be expressed outside. So smaranam is definitely an internal activity.

But if that smaranam is going on internally, it will also be expressed externally. So as devotees, we need some quality time for directly connecting with Krishna, for directly cultivating remembrance of Krishna. Without the direct connection with Krishna, without the direct remembrance of Krishna, the indirect remembrance of Krishna will not be revealed.

The indirect remembrance of Krishna will be ethereal. Ethereal means just near, abstract, not really tangible. If there is no direct remembrance of Krishna.

And we need to, especially when we are practicing the lens of bhakti, when we are chanting the holy name, when we are associating with devotees, coming to the temple, at least at that time we have the facility, we have the external stimuli which are favourable for remembrance of Krishna. All around us there are devotees, there is a tilak, there are pictures of Krishna, there is a kirtan of Krishna going on. So at least at that time, we should be remembering Krishna.

If when Krishna is right in front of us, we are not remembering Him, then when Krishna is not in front of us, how can we remember Him? Isn't it? So when we chant the holy name, when we hold the ashram of Krishna, that time we have to make a conscious effort to remember Krishna. Otherwise, the remembrance will not be authentic. I was always remembering Him.

Going back to the earlier example, if the husband is working at some other place, and the husband comes back on the weekend, and the husband tells you, when I am there, I am always remembering you. And then the wife starts talking with him, and then he opens his phone and starts looking at the messages. He says, when I am with you, you are not giving me attention.

How can you believe that when I am not with you, you are remembering me? So when Krishna is right in front of us, at that time, we need to do attention. So first of all, there should be some time when Krishna is right in front of us. And then when He is right in front of us, at that time, we are attentive.

We are receiving Krishna. And then at other times when Krishna is not there, at that time also, we need to remember Him. So in this way, the process of smaranam is centered on both first cultivating direct remembrance of Krishna, and then having the background remembrance of Krishna as a driving impression.

Now remembrance of Krishna can also be at various levels. That means we may remember the philosophy of Krishna consciousness. That is also remembrance of Krishna.

We may remember the past tense of Krishna. That is also remembrance of Krishna. We may remember the places of Krishna.

We may have gone to Vrindavan, Mayapur. We may remember those. That is also remembrance of Krishna.

We remember the temple. That is also remembrance of Krishna. There are various ways in which we remember Krishna.

So, Rupa Goswami talks about four kinds of smaran broadly. Naam smaran, Rupa smaran, Lila smaran, and Seva smaran. This is remembering the names, remembering the form, remembering the past tense, and remembering the services.

Naam, Rupa, Lila and Seva. All these are various ways in which we can remember. The essential point of remembering Krishna is that by remembering our affection will awake.

So, that remembrance is not just mechanical. It is not that somebody may just do some mathematical things. 5,6,7,8,9,10,15,16,17,18,20 20,25,25,5,6,7,8,9,10,19,20 25,25,5,6,7,8,9,10,20 It is just a mechanical repetition.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Krishna. Nama, Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare Hare. It is a little bit mechanical.

Mechanical repetition is also good. It is better than nothing. But we try to be minimalistic in some way.

Whatever little traction we have. This is the law whichever past tense we remember, we like the most. We like the past tense to say, Krishna who has slain Draupadi.

Or Krishna who helped Arjuna when he had to kill Jaidat. Whichever past tense it is, when Krishna comes with the help of his devotees, then we can remember that. That is the law I am calling right now.

And then we invest some emotion in that. And by that the connection will deepen. So mechanical recollection.

We remember Krishna and all, we remember some dry mathematical facts. We are remembering a person whom we have some affection for. Whom we have some devotion for.

And before all, we want to deepen our devotion. When we try to remember him in this way, then that remembrance will strengthen our attraction. So, talk about smaranam.

That the whole process of bhakti is centred on smaranam. It's like a person who has amnesia. Their past memory is revived by exposing them to stimuli of their previous life.

Like that, we can, we have forgotten about our spiritual identity and our spiritual life. And exposure to Krishna, who is the central being in our spiritual life. Exposure to him, our memory is revived.

And by remembering Krishna, it's not like living in the past. A recollection of past memories. It is more of a driving intention.

Like a person who is working for their family. They are not sitting and thinking about the family. Whatever work they are doing, I think I am doing this for my family.

So remembrance is a driving intention. Now for that driving intention to be authentic, we need also exclusive attention. Focus connection with Krishna.

So when Krishna is right in front of us, that time we remember him wholeheartedly. And then when he is not in front of us, that time also we forget to remember him. That's why, although smaranam is the essence, the external forms are also important.

Yes, we are meant to remember Krishna in the internal. But we are also meant to chant him. Because the externals and internals go together.

And then, there is a little bit of thinking about him. But the important thing in this is, when we are doing the smaranam, it's not like a mechanical repetition or recitation or recollection of past. It's a personal connection with the Lord.

So by remembering Krishna, we invest whatever little emotion we have, by thinking about his past, which are past and attracts our heart. And then, with that, with a little emotion invested in the connection, the emotion will be deeper. And the recollection will also be sweetened by that.

So, any questions about this? Yes. How did we forget? How did the soul forget the connection with Krishna? The bondage of the soul in the material world is an arm. In 13.9 in the Mahabharata, 19.20, Prakriti and Purusha Chaitanya Vithya Anani Mahavi.

From the more material nature and Prakriti and Purusha soul, both of them, they are Anani. Beginningless. Krishna and Krishna Chaitanya Vithya Anani, they have also both explained in the commentary, this verse, that the connection is also beginningless.

So beginningless means it is beyond the scope of time. And it is, what is outside the scope of time, it is just not comprehensible to the human mind. And, you know, humility has various aspects to it.

When we come to the name Nibbola, that's humility. Humility in the intellectual domain means that, means admitting that I don't know and I can't know. So this question about how the soul can disconnect from Krishna, this is one of the favorite ways of devotees to give themselves an intellectual headache.

It's basically like Acharya says, it's Achimitya. It's Anani, it's Achimitya. So it's beginningless and it is beyond conception.

So just like if you consider, Anani, it's beginningless. So if a circle is already drawn, circle is already drawn, how do we know what is the starting point of the circle? We just can't know it. When a soul is in the Samsara Chakra, what we can know at this stage is that the more we connect with Krishna, our life becomes more peaceful, more joyful.

The more we become disconnected from Krishna, the more our life becomes more agitated, more disrupted, more bankrupt of happiness. So with this understanding, we practice Krishna Consciousness. Going back to the past and trying to do a post-mortem of what happened in that time is almost an impossible task.

Question about Seva. About Seva, I will elaborate later. Some of the little glimpse of Bhakti is there.

Yes, ma'am. I think the interaction of remembering Krishna is it because of the circumstances or because we prove to make that connection? Okay. When our connection, remembrance of Krishna gets interrupted, is it because of the circumstances or is it because we can't remember Him? It is both.

That we live in an embodied state in this material world. And in this material world, if they were ups and downs, actually they lack that kind of attention. And we are functioning in this world.

We have our services in this world also. So we need to give them our due attention. So Tamal Krishna Maharaj, when he was looking after the Yuhud project in Mumbai, there was a local mayor.

He was doing all kinds of politics to prevent the devotees from getting permissions to build the temple. And the devotees were very frustrated about it. So one day, I was asking Prabhupada and said, Prabhupada, these land elites, they are causing me so much anxiety that they are disturbing my chanting.

And Prabhupada looked at me and said, they are disturbing my chanting also. The anxiety is disturbing my chanting also. So I didn't know what to say after that.

And Prabhupada said, the anxiety to serve Krishna is linking to Krishna. So actually, the anxiety to serve Krishna is linking to Krishna. Sometimes we reduce chanting to just the verbal utterance of the holy names.

Yes, the verbal utterance of the holy names is vital to chanting, central to chanting. But ultimately, chanting is meant to help us develop a relationship with Krishna. And any relationship involves some amount of anxiety.

So if you are being anxious or some service related to Krishna, that is not outside the value of bhakti. If because of that anxiety we give up bhakti itself, then it is a problem. But anxiety is just a part of life.

We don't let ourselves get controlled by those anxieties. But in a sense, anxiety is a sign of responsibility. If I take up responsibility, there is some anxiety about it.

So it could be because we have responsibilities and they require us, they consume our mind. And that's why we are not able to remember Krishna. So if we are doing it all in the mood of service to Krishna, then even through that, we are in a sense connecting to Krishna.

Having said that, we all need to also, as much as possible, manage our load of anxieties according to our capacity. That means, say, if I can lift up 20 kg weight, if I can lift up 15, I'll get crushed. If I lift up 5 kg, let's do exercise at home.

So, like that, we all need to, we all need to know how much we can take up. And if something is going beyond our capacity, we need to do some adjustments. So sometimes the circumstances are such that they are not in our control.

Sometimes we can adjust a few things. So, we can try to, if circumstances are distracting us too much from our relationship with Krishna, we can see if they can be adjusted. We can try.

But if they can't be adjusted, we just do what we can in that situation. As far as our inner intention is concerned, yes, our intention can also be weak. And that happens especially if there are temptations which are attracting us.

I have to do this, I have to do that. I have to enjoy this, I have to enjoy that. So at that time, associating with devotees who have a strong intention, that helps a lot.

So understanding the philosophy that also solidifies the intention. So, but more importantly, for us, at this stage in bhakti, connection with Krishna is primarily a process of repeated reconnection. You know, when we are disconnected, we need to be connected.

यतो यतो निश्चल, मनश्चल चेलमस दिरू, ततस्त तोन्यं यहितत, आत्मन्ये वश्वन्ये. Krishna says, wherever and whenever the mind wanders, bring it back. It will wander, bring it back.

The mind may stray away, don't let it stay away. It will stray away, we can't avoid it, that's the nature of the mind. But don't let it stay away.

If it goes, bring it back. So, just as in a plane, it is moving, say, say, everything is going wrong, torrent or tornado. Now, the plane doesn't literally go in an absolute straight line.

90% of the time, the plane is off course. But the pilot or the plane's mechanical system, it reorients, reorients, because of the wind, because the atmosphere is getting disoriented, reorients, disoriented, reorients. And when it continues reorientation, it eventually gives you frustration.

So like that, whether it is because of our circumstances externally, or because of our mind internally, we will get disoriented. We don't have to become disheartened just because we have become disoriented. Rather, we expect it, and we reorient ourselves.

And by the process of repeated reconnection, we will develop attraction to Krishna, and then, our connection will become steadier and stronger. You had a question? The same I talked about here. Okay.

About Seva. In between Seva and Surya. Okay.

I'll explain this more quickly. So, what does Seva Smaran mean? So actually, we all have, even in the spiritual world, our service to Krishna. So, Yashodamani, she is cooking for Krishna.

You see, when we are cooking some particular item for Krishna, then she is thinking, you know, I want to make this item very nice for Krishna. Put this, put this, I don't like this, I don't like this. She is thinking about that item at that time, and what is happening? She is actually cooking for Krishna.

So, if our Seva is for Krishna, there is also a remembrance of Krishna. So, Krishna Prabhupada, means Krishna consciousness, is very exalted, and is also very practical. Once in San Francisco, there was this walking man, he was walking in the outer courtyard kind of place, in the place where we have the temple.

He was chanting. And he looked down, and he saw a flatbed truck. Now, how many of us would think of making Krishna consciousness in a flatbed truck? It's a truck, what are they doing? Prabhupada thought, oh, you know, we can put Jagannath Buddha's hood on this flatbed truck, and we can make that into a ruck, and we can have that ruck.

And that's how the first Siddhantra started. So, Prabhupada was thinking, about how can I serve Krishna? And then he heard a truck, became a stimulus, and started to serve Krishna. So, if we have, if we have particular service, then by this, while doing that service, if we are thinking about how to do that service, even learning more and more about that service, absorbing, answering the specifics of that service, that is also a form of remembrance.

Initially, we will be caught by looking at the specifics of the service. Say for example, I'm a writer. So when I read something, I will look at, is this comma right? Is this punctuation right? Is this sentence well structured? And, initially, if I like some things that are well written, then I will find, even if something is non-devotional, I will attract it.

As soon as I see that. But, over a period of time, if I keep practicing Bhakti, what will happen is, that just the linguistic component, it will still appeal. But, if it is not about Krishna, there is no assignment.

So, if someone likes music, anything that is good music, they will like it. But if they do it for Krishna, they learn music for Krishna, they absorb himself in music for Krishna, the service, over a period of time, so, there is a form of service and there is a purpose of service. The form of service is, say the English language, or learning music, a particular instrument.

So initially, we may, by remembering, we may be very caught in remembering the form of service. Okay. But as we become habituated to that, then our focus will shift from the form of service to the object of service, the purpose of service.

Okay, I am doing this for Krishna. If Krishna is not there, what is the use of it? So, even if we are serving Krishna, that service is meant for Krishna, and the remembrance of that service is also a form of remembrance. So, should we take a break here or should we move ahead? Sorry, it is already 10.

We can take a break here. 5 minutes. Yeah, 5 minutes is what we are doing.

If it is well 15, we can leave soon. Thank you very much. Good bye.