Analyzing Govardhan Lila 1 – How Krishna is the best provoker

[Seminar at ISKCON, Soho Street, London, UK]

Video:

Hare Krishna. Thank you for coming today evening. And we will today meditate on and analyse one of the most visually depicted pastimes of Krishna.
So Krishna’s pastimes are themselves very dramatic. But generally if you look at pictures, traditionally as well as contemporarily, there are a few pictures which are most prominent when you think of Krishna Nila. One is maybe as Makhan Chor, stealing butter.
Another is as Kaliya Dhaman, dancing on the hoods of Kaliya. Another is Ras Nila, which is very common. And one more is Govardhan.
So this pastime itself is very dramatic. And we will discuss about not so much the drama, but we will discuss more the psychology of the characters. And we will see how through the drama, Krishna rectifies the thinking of Indra.
So this whole story is at one level almost absurd. Absurd means that Krishna is the supreme lord and it is by his arrangement that Indra is the king of the gods. And Indra is the king of the gods is respected.
And the Vrajavasis are doing Indra puja. And Krishna comes and tells them that there is no need to worship Indra. So just if we try to contemplate what Krishna is doing, I will take three different frames of analysis to explain this.
First is, say imagine, say Janmashtami is coming. And suppose a particular senior devotee has the privilege as the service of say maybe the first Janmashtami Aarti. And the darshan comes out, they do that.
And then suppose one year suddenly the devotee is told you will not do the Aarti. And then who is going to do that? Somebody who is utterly insignificant. Somebody who is a new devotee whose name also you don’t know.
Hey, what’s going on? First of all, if we are given some honour regularly, what happens is the human psychology is that when we get something regularly, we start thinking that we deserve it. So it’s not by qualification we think I deserve it. It’s more by the regularity of getting it.
I think I deserve it. And then don’t get it, it’s infuriating. So Indra was much more than snubbed over here.
And it is quite absurd what Krishna did. I’m using the word absurd deliberately. I’m talking about this from the perspective of Indra.
It was not absurd, it was outrageous. Okay, this is the puja that I deserve. And it’s taken away from him.
And then it’s one thing if we are given something regularly, it’s taken away and it’s given to somebody worthy. But instead of me, it’s a hill being worshipped. A hill of all things.
What is this? Suppose Indian cricket team is there, there is a very prominent batsman who is normally there in the team always. And that person is dropped. And somebody who is not even qualified for national cricket, leave alone international cricket, club player is brought in this place.
What kind of outrage is that? Now when Krishna wants to, so Krishna through this pastime demonstrates that he can do everything perfectly. There are some people who push our buttons. They just, whatever they speak, whatever they do, it just makes us angry.
There are like, scientists say there are about 1 billion nerves in our body. And some people seem to have done a PhD in how to agitate all the 1 billion nerves. They just speak in a way that is infuriating.
So, there will be different people who can provoke, but nobody can provoke like Krishna. Nobody can pacify like Krishna when Krishna wants to pacify. We might be very agitated and we suddenly remember Krishna and the whole agitation can go away.
But if Krishna wants to provoke, in everything he is the best. So first he just snubs Indira and snubs him in such an outrageous way that ripple is replaced by a hill. And as if that were not bad enough.
Krishna also uses false reasoning to justify it. What is the false reasoning? Actually, Krishna, he tells the Brajwasis, why are you worshipping Indira? If you do your karma, Indira is bound to give rains. You don’t have to worship him.
This is technically called the philosophy. Does anyone know the name? Karma Vimamsa. Karma Vimamsa, you could say it is almost like it’s more a mechanical vision of nature rather than a personal vision of nature.
Mechanical vision means what? Say if you have a food vending machine or sometimes in airports you have a food vending or a water selling machine. So now there might be some operator over there sitting but if you insert the money and then you press the button, the water has to come, the food has to come. So this is mechanical operation.
The person might be there to oversee but if you have paid the money, if you press the button, you have to get it. So Krishna in a sense propagates this mechanical vision of nature. If you do the yajna, sorry, if you do your karma, if you are doing your duty, then Indira has to give rains.
You don’t have to do anything more. Now this is not the conclusion of the Vedas. So here we see something very dramatic which illustrates how important context is.
That here we see the absolute truth does not speak the absolute truth. So even when the absolute truth is speaking, we have to look at the context. Context is critical for comprehending the content.
What is being spoken depends on in what context it is being spoken. And many times people take verses out of context to justify whatever they want to argue for. And this can happen anywhere.
So here we worship Krishna as the absolute truth. But we don’t consider these words of Krishna as the absolute truth. Because what is Krishna is speaking here not as an Acharya teaching the Vaishnava Siddhanta or the Shastra Siddhanta.
Krishna is here speaking just to persuade the Brajwasis. And he uses a specious logic. So sometimes when somebody say we are doing a particular service and somebody takes that service and gives to somebody else.
And then we get angry. Why did you do that? And they give some reasoning. And first of all that we are deprived, we are annoyed by that.
And if the reasoning that they give, that doesn’t make sense. Then that makes us even more angry. What is this? It’s like sometimes it’s a I was at a conflict resolution session once.
And like I was a mediation. So one person spoke something and other person speak. So the other person said if you want to lie at least speak a believable lie.
So sometimes it may happen that you give a reason but it’s an utterly unreasonable reason. Then that makes you even more angry. So what happens is that Indra becomes even more provoked.
He says this is a stupid reason. It’s not even the proper philosophy. And then the Vrajavasis try to save the day.
They try to save Indra’s face. And they say yes Krishna, what you are saying we should do a Govardhan puja? He says yes, but let us do this Indra puja. Then after that we will prepare the paraphernalia and then we will do Govardhan puja.
And Krishna says nothing doing. He says there is absolutely no need to worship Indra. Just worship Govardhan.
So it’s like another example. Say somebody is expecting some prasad and they are waiting and say we are cooking and he says there is another guest. You give the prasad to them.
He says no no, we will give the prasad to this person and then we can prepare another plate. There is no need to feed this person. Just feed that person only.
And this person is hungry. What is this? So Krishna, he is expert at everything and he is expert even at provocation. If Krishna wants to make us angry, he can just press all the buttons.
He is omniscient. He just knows how to make someone angry. So here, now why would Krishna do that? Now why would Krishna provoke Indra like that? There is a reason.
You see, all of us in normal situations we all can behave in, we can all put our good face in front. We can all behave like gentlemen and ladies when things are going on normally. But it is when we are provoked that the side of us that we keep concealed, it comes out.
So it is said that provocations introduce us to us. Provocations also introduce us to others. Of course, it is not that who we are when we are provoked is the completers.
But it is also not the who we are in normal situations is the completers. So you can say provocations bring out our lower side, bring out our dark side. It brings out the side of us which we normally keep concealed.
Now at one level such concealing is not necessarily bad. This difference between the internal and the external it is there in everyone. What we think, what we desire and how we act.
There is a gap between the two. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It is also a sign of a civilised society that whatever impulses, whatever desires that come up within us, we don’t act on them.
We cannot see each other’s thoughts. And that is a great blessing. If we started seeing each other’s thoughts, desires, cravings, you think like that about me.
You have that kind of desires. These are the kind of fantasies you entertain. If we all started seeing each other’s hearts, if we all started seeing each other’s thoughts, not a single relationship could be sustained.
So nature has given us a buffer by which many things might occur inside us. But our thoughts remain invisible till they manifest in the physical. And by that what happens is we all can behave in a cultured way.
Of course, this difference between external and internal at one level we could say it is a sign of a cultured or civilised society. But we have to understand what is the intention over here. The intention could be that I act in a civilised way so that I actually become civilised.
That means it is a discipline. I don’t want to be like an uncouth person who yells at others although I am feeling like doing that right now. But I will control myself.
And gradually my anger will also come under control. So this gap can be because we are disciplined. And gradually we might remove the dark within us.
Or the gap could be if it’s on the discipline side, it’s good, it’s positive. But discipline will lead to purification. On the negative side, it could be because of hypocrisy.
That means we want to act in a cultured way till the other person lets their guard down. And the moment they let their guard down, we pounce on them. So somebody is very greedy and they want to steal money.
But somebody from whom they want to steal money, they drop some pennies, they drop some notes and you go and give it back. And when you do that, oh, you are such a trustworthy person. So you act as if you have no greed for the other person.
So you give as a small small amount and the other person lowers the guard and then you steal a big amount. So this gap between the external and internal, why that is, that is something which each person has to introspect within their heart. That gap will be there for all of us unless we are pure devotees.
Then we could say that outside and inside is entirely the same. But the point here is that we all have some darkness within us. Now with that darkness also, there are limits.
That means when I get angry, when I get greedy, when any of these anarthas start coming within us, when they express themselves also, to what extent will someone go when they express themselves? That will vary from person to person. Some people when they get angry, they might just grind their teeth and, you can see their nerves swelling over here and they are clenching their fists. There is some restrained physical expression.
For some people when they get angry, then it’s like the tongue loses whatever break it has. Just speak anything and everything. It’s a verbal assault.
It’s like a verbal machine gun. In America, there is a lot of concern because many people have guns. I was in a college, I was giving a talk and I turned to look at the slide and I looked, there was nobody in the class.
I said, what happened? And then somebody pulled me off the chair. So what had happened, there was a gun alert and everybody had dug under the chair. Everybody had dug under the chair and one of them came to me, he also dug under the chair.
So later on, it turned out that it was actually a test to check whether people comply or not. There was no gunman over there but they wanted to check whether people comply or not. But anyway, if somebody has a gun, then they can be very dangerous.
They can just go around and shoot and kill many people. So if somebody is carrying a gun, they have to be very cautious. So actually, we all carry a gun within us and that is our tongue.
The tongue can shoot, shoot and shoot. When we get angry, we can deliver the best speech that we will ever regret. Actually, anger can make some people very articulate.
They just express themselves. And I have this issue. Because I am a writer, I am quite articulate.
So I can analyse issues very well but when I want to criticise, I can criticise also very bitingly. So I have to be very careful about it. But anyway, the point is that there are different levels of aggression I am talking about.
So somebody might become verbally aggressive. Some people might become physically aggressive. They might take things and throw at each other.
Some people might not just take things and punch at someone. Some people might take a knife and attack someone. Some people might take a gun and attack someone.
So basically, all these are different degrees. Now, all of us have anger but based on our culture, based on our upbringing, based on our conscience, even when we get angry, there will be certain limits within which we will express our anger. There are certain things which we might do but there are certain things which we will not do.
So, now what are the limits for someone? That also reveals their character, their personality, the substance of who they are. So now Krishna wanted to expose how deep was the pride of Indra. So Krishna provoked, so sometimes provocations, as I said, what happens? Provocations introduce us to us.
And us to us means or introduce us to others. But the dark side of us which we conceal normally. When we are provoked, it comes out.
So now we all have a dark side but how dark is the dark side? That we can come to know under provocation. How dark is the dark side within us or how dark is the dark side in someone else? So Indra, because he was the king of gods, he was in a respectable and worshipable position and his pride was not so immediately visible to anyone. Yeah, of course he is in a respectable position, he is to be respected.
So somebody like even the spiritual master might be sitting on a big asan and doing the pada puja might be happening. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they are proud. Some spiritual master who can also become proud.
But just the, if somebody is in an external respectable position does not necessarily mean that they are proud. In devotee culture, it is a culture of offering respect and honour to each other. So in a devotee culture, how do we practise humility? So at one side you are told to be humble but at another time you are also told to offer respect to each other.
So if everybody offers respect to us, how do we stay humble then? So actually humility means to accept honour but to not expect honour. That means if somebody offers us respect, we accept it. Not because we deserve it but because Krishna has put us in a position where the culture makes us receive that, we accept that.
But if we start expecting it. So if I come into the temple and look who all are bowing down to me. Who is not bowing down to me? Offender.
If somebody starts thinking like that, there is very little Krishna consciousness in their conduct. So if somebody offers respect, we accept it. But humility means we don’t expect it.
And certainly we don’t demand it. Some people, their very behaviour is they act like a pure devotee. It’s almost like they are carrying a marker on their forehead.
Pure devotee, offer dandavat. They speak very advanced leelas of Krishna. They act as if they are very very advanced.
And then you see that actually they are all doing all this to crave for honour. That is unfortunate. But the point I am making is Indra was respected.
Just because somebody is receiving respect or somebody is being given or somebody is taking honour, that does not necessarily mean some of you can come ahead. There is a lot of space here. I don’t know, many of you behind are struggling to see me.
I am also struggling to see you. If you want you can come ahead. You can move the chairs ahead also if you like.
So, how do we know when somebody is proud? It is in a provoking situation. So what Krishna is doing, sometimes if somebody is proud because of their behaviour, because they are in a respectable position, others may or may not recognise that this person has become proud. And there are different levels of you could say deception.
Sometimes we deceive others. But sometimes our attempt at deceiving others is so convincing that we end up deceiving ourselves. That means sometimes we tell lies knowing that it is a lie Sometimes we tell a lie believing that it is the truth.
The human mind can work in such a way that sometimes some people can, some honest people can speak untruths. And it is not that they are being manipulative. It is just the way the mind works.
Often what happens, the bad that has happened to us, we have a long memory about it. And the bad that has been done by us, we have a short memory about it. So that’s why when we tell something about how it happened, it might appear as if we are blameless.
Now, it’s not that we, sometimes we might do it intentionally, but sometimes we might just do it, it just happens. So the point I am making here is that sometimes somebody might be proud, but even they themselves might not realise they are proud. Somebody might be greedy, but they themselves might not realise they are greedy.
So sometimes, like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, the weeds that grow, they are sometimes exactly identical to the creeper of devotion. They just can’t identify it. So, if somebody is getting a lot of money, if somebody is getting a lot of honours, now whether they are taking it for themselves, or they are taking it as representatives of Krishna, on Krishna’s behalf.
We don’t know. We can’t know in advance. And sometimes, not only can others not know, sometimes that person also is difficult to know.
If, say, once one of the senior spiritual masters in our movement, he was asked the same question that, we are told to be humble, but then devotees glorify us so much, so how do we maintain our humility? So, the Maharaj said that actually, Prabhu, you are so glorious that we all should glorify you. In fact, if we don’t glorify you, we will fall down. And then he added, but if you believe that glorification, you will fall down.
So the idea is that it’s a culture. Does it mean that it’s lies? It’s not lies. If somebody is doing something glorious, we recognise that.
But we understand that I am an instrument. I am not the cause. So, I am grateful that Krishna is using me as an instrument.
But if I start taking sole credit for what I am doing, then I will become proud. So the point is that sometimes we may have some anartha, and we ourselves may not realise that we have that anartha. But, when we are provoked, that is the time the anartha within comes out, and even the magnitude of the anartha, how much it is, that comes out.
So what happened in the case of Indra was that he, Krishna wanted Indra to realise for himself how much pride he had got. How arrogant he had become because of his position. How much of a mentality of entitlement he had got.
In today’s parlance. Actually, it’s a difficult question to answer universally. But it seems that the nature of humanity is that a certain amount of deprivation is essential for motivation.
If we are living in a very comfortable situation, it is very difficult to be motivated. A certain amount of deprivation motivates us. So, and when that deprivation is not there, when there is abundance, then the motivation may go down.
So, for example, this I have read about surveys in America, in UK also, that generally if immigrants come to a country, then they, because they have left their home, and they have come to a distant place, they work very hard to build their career. So on an average, say if Asians, generally Indians, Americans, people from Indian subcontinent, they do very well in academics. I mean, I was at Ivy League University, and in fact there is a case against Harvard right now, because what is happening is they want to have diversity.
They say if we leave everything to merit, the whole Harvard will be filled with only Indians and Chinese people. Because they are so brilliant. But then what is happening sometimes, a highly qualified Indian boy, super qualified, he did not get into Harvard.
And now his parents have made a case against him. And now many Asians and Indian-Chinese have joined for that case. So the point is that in general, say if immigrants have come, say if students come to a different country for studying, then their motivation level is very high.
I have left the home, I have come here to study. And as compared to the natives, they excel far far more. But then if they settle down, this advantage which immigrant students have over native students, that more or less disappears in three generations.
That means if somebody has been in say America for three generations, they are Indians. But their kids, they don’t have that level of motivation. So they may be good naturally, genetically they may be gifted.
But that zeal, that goes down. So a certain level of deprivation is sometimes necessary for motivation. And abundance of provisions can actually make us complacent, can actually weaken us.
So sometimes if we don’t get honour, if we regularly are honoured, that might take away our motivation. So now what is the exact level of deprivation? Now if somebody is too deprived, they might just become discouraged, disheartened and just quit. So what is optimal that will vary from person to person, situation to situation.
But in the case of Indra, what happened was that he had so much honour that it went to his head. And even he didn’t realise it. At one level, because he is in a respectable position, he is expected to be honoured.
But he is also expected to know that this is not just for me. He forgot that. And Krishna wanted to reveal to Indra how much this pride, this craving for respect had dominated him.
And that is why Krishna provoked him. So Krishna’s provocation, so I talked about Indra’s psychology and then I am talking about also Krishna’s psychology. So actually it was an outrageous thing, an absurd and outrageous thing from Indra’s perspective.
What happened? And why did Krishna do something absurd we could say? But Krishna had his purpose. And when we look at it from a limited perspective, sometimes some situations come in our life that just don’t make sense. You may pray to Krishna for something and something just the opposite of that happens.
So you say, is Krishna answering my prayers? What is going on? So we have thought of a path in our life and we pray to Krishna, Krishna please remove the obstacles from this path. And we pray and suddenly a bigger obstacle than what we had thought of comes up over there. Hey, what’s going on? Now we see the road up to a particular point.
But Krishna sees the road through and through. So what might seem like a barrier for us, there might be a big ditch, there might be a big marsh, there might be a big swamp over there ahead. We can’t see it.
So what appears to be like a barrier for us with our finite vision can from a bigger perspective appear to be, turn out to be a protector. But we can’t see it at that time. So sometimes when Krishna seems, things seem to be happening in such a way that there’s just one thing after another after another seems to be provoking us, seems to be frustrating us.
Say, where is Krishna? What is going on? Now Krishna does have a plan. So, Krishna had a plan. And Indra, he got provoked.
It was… Krishna decided to provoke Indra. Indra, he just got so provoked. Generally, one principle of justice is that the punishment should be proportionate to the crime.
Not proportionate to the outrage felt at the crime. If somebody has done something wrong and nobody knows about it, nobody complains about it and they are punished a little bit. But somebody does something wrong and then the whole media comes to know about it.
Nowadays, the social media, you know, what might catch attention? What might become viral, we don’t know. If something becomes viral and then somebody has done something wrong and everybody condemns them and sometimes the government also, the judges also get carried away, then they might punish the person far more than what is normal because in response to the outrage. So generally, justice, even if somebody has done something wrong, the punishment has to be proportional to the crime, whatever it is.
But here we see Indra’s anger leads to, it’s like a sequence, his pride is there. So generally, pride basically what does it mean? It means an entitlement mentality that I deserve this honour and if I don’t get it, so just see pride is also a desire, lust is also a desire. It is said that the ego, what we desire by that is like sexual sex.
What it means is in lust, we desire a physical object for gratification. In pride, we desire a subtler object for gratification. That is praise, honour, position, distinction.
Now, just as Kama has a Anuja. Who is Kama Anuja? Does anyone know? Anuja is a younger brother. So anger, krodha.
Kama Anuja, like we have Ramanujacharya. So Ramanuja is actually said to be Lakshman. Another brother of Rama.
So Kama Anuja is krodha. That means where there is strong craving, when that craving is not fulfilled, anger will come. So, desire leads to anger.
And similarly, pride is also a desire for something subtler, for honour. So in pride, just as when lust is frustrated, it leads to anger, pride also when frustrated leads to anger. And then Indra’s anger comes out.
And that anger is, he is outraged by what has happened, but Indra’s anger is outrageously disproportional. It is like say, now I give the earlier example. Say, if somebody is supposed to serve food, and instead you give somebody else the food.
It is understood that person will get angry. But suppose, that person gets so angry, that person takes a machine gun and starts shooting everyone around. How dare you take away my food? That’s outrageous.
So, Indra, you could say, he could have got angry at what happened. But, what did he do? He just unleashed the fiercest powers at his disposal. The fiercest powers.
He started showering torrential rains. Not only rains, he started saying, fierce storms, scary lightning. Horrifying thunderbolts.
The combined wrath of nature just descended on Govardhan. It is like, suppose, there are some heads of state today who are notorious to be uncontrolled. So, somebody insults that person, and that person, just because of some countries and other countries insults him, and because of that, this person sends nuclear weapons on that country.
And destroys the whole country. That’s completely out of proportion. So, Indra, he uses all the celestial powers at his command to destroy Vrindavan.
To destroy Vrindavan completely. And it’s shocking how far he can go. He is dishonoured.
I can understand when angry, but to what extent? If you consider, the devatas are also not free from force. Devatas also have lust, they also have greed, they also have anger. But generally, the difference between devatas and demons are, devatas live within limits.
Devatas also have apsaras, they also have celestial delights in heavens. But, devatas don’t go and abduct women. So, they also have those desires, but it’s within limits.
Whereas, the asuras, when the desires come, they go beyond limits. So, actually in a sense, dharma is about many things. Dharma is about both, a bond and a boundary.
A bond means, this is how I should act. A boundary means, beyond this, I should not act. So, when we take initiation, the bond is, chant 16 rounds.
The boundary is, follow the 4 regs. So, dharma is both a bond and a boundary. The bond is, how we should act.
The boundary is, how we should not act. And generally, devatas live within dharma. And when we talk about the boundaries, all of us need certain boundaries.
Actually, we need to protect the fences that protect us. Whatever it may be. Every culture, society has certain norms of behaviour.
And if people act within those norms, then things move forward. So, what happens with Indra is, that his anger becomes completely disproportionate. And, it’s not just disproportionate in terms of what he is using to express the anger.
It’s disproportionate in terms of who he is targeting also. He is not just targeting Krishna. He is targeting all the Brajwasis.
Wants to destroy all of Vrindavan. And this is extremely dangerous. So, for all of us, when we are provoked, what we do or what we can do reveals the dark side within us.
And at one level, sometimes we may hear about Indra and how he acted. He says, what an arrogant person he is. Or we see the characters in scripture.
And we say, what kind of person is this? How could they act like this? But, it’s not just they can act like that. Any of us can act like that. So, in one sense, we need to have, Prabhupada said, have a healthy fear of Maya.
So, another way it could be that, we need to be terrified of how terrible we can be. So that, we never become that terrible. Be terrified of how terrible you can be.
That means, sometimes we see in devotee circle, some devotee does something. We think, how can a devotee act like that? That’s reprehensible. Of course, if something is wrong, a terrible action, it’s a terrible action.
But, instead of simply, there is a word, Adharify. Adharify means, treat the person like Adhar. Adharify means, what kind of species is this? I don’t know who this is.
Instead of treating the person like that, what kind of person will do like that? We understand that, actually, if provoked, if this devotee could act like this, maybe I can also act like that. So, I never want to be like that. So, be terrified of how terrible we can be.
So that, we never become that terrible. So, Indra shows us that negative example. Indra is not a bad person.
He is a devta and he is also a good person overall. But, even when we are good and there is a dark side within us, sometimes we let the dark side grow and grow and grow. But, we continue to live a good life.
But, if we are not fighting against the dark side, we are letting it grow, letting it grow, eventually, it will express itself in ugly way. And how ugly it may be, it can be horrifying. So, what this story reveals is, how Krishna introduces Indra to his dark side, so that he can get rid of that dark side.
So, how he gets rid of that dark side, we will discuss after the break. So, I will quickly summarise till now what I spoke and we have a few questions before we go for Jullain. So, I spoke on this theme today of how Krishna is expert at everything.
He is expert at provoking also. So, Krishna does something outrageous. And from Indra, we talk from psychological perspective, Indra’s anger was entirely justified.
He was outrageously snubbed. The worship that was meant for him was given to something utterly insignificant like a hill. Like the food which is meant to be given to a very respectable person is given to somebody utterly unknown.
So, anything like that. And not only that, Krishna used a false logic to do that. Like if you lie, at least tell a believable lie.
So, Krishna didn’t even do that. So, that’s even more provoking. So, now, it’s understandable that Indra got provoked.
Now, why did Krishna provoke like this? Because, that was the elaborate part of the class, that we all have a dark side in us. In normal situations, we behave in a cultured way. And that gap is good if we are doing it as a discipline so that we become purified.
But that gap can also be because of hypocrisy. We are concealing the dark so that we can pounce and others lower their guard. Now, we might be somewhere in between.
So, when provocations come, then the dark within us pops out. And at that time, how dark is the dark within us, we come to know. So, provocations introduce us to ourselves, introduce us to others.
So, sometimes the anarthas are such that others can’t detect them. Humility means we may accept honour but we don’t expect honour. But when somebody is expecting honour, how do you know? So, sometimes others cannot detect the anarthas, sometimes we might deceive ourselves so much that we believe our lies.
And then we also don’t know the presence of the anarthas. That’s when if a provocation comes, then the anarthas comes out. And we talked about how when the anarthas comes out, based on our culture, there will be limits within which we express it.
So, I might just yell at someone and I am angry or somebody might take a machine gun and kill someone and they are angry. So, how much is the anger within one someone, that is revealed when they are provoked. So, dharma is both a bond about how we should act and a boundary.
Even when we are provoked, don’t go beyond this, how we should not act. So, Krishna provoked Indra and then Indra used justice, even if we are angry, justice has to be proportionate to the crime. Not proportionate to the outrage felt at the crime.
Indra used all his celestial power to exterminate everyone in Vrindavan, exterminate Vrindavan itself. And that was utterly disproportionate. So, rather than otherifying Indra, we understand that this is how terrible even we can become.
And we need to be terrified of how terrible we can be, so that we never become that terrible. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Do we have time for questions? So, 7.20? 7.25? So, we will have questions at that time. It’s not very crowded.