Analyzing the relationship between material progress and spiritual progress
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
Hare Krishna I'm grateful to be here amongst all of you at the lotus feet of Shri Radha Govindan and Shri Prabhupada to try to share something. Hare Krishna to try to speak something about the Srimad Bhagavatam So we are going to seek your blessings so that I can speak something to glorify Krishna So here We'll discuss on the topic of the Unpredictable relationship between material advancement and spiritual advancement material comforts and spiritual progress So here prayer is offered to the Lord that the in the message the verse is saying that Material advancement can be an impediment but not for a serious devotee So for some people the Lord will remove the optimum so that they can advance in the spiritual path And for others it need not be removed at all So I will base this whole talk on a metaphor the metaphor of a sick person And when a person is sick and in pain Sometimes we have sickness for which there is no pain especially cancer for example in the early stages there is no pain at all and Maybe there is some small swelling on the body Somewhere it becomes a little big sometimes the internal you don't even come to know It's only when the cancer goes to advanced stage that Actually, we come to know the disease and then sometimes by that time it's too late So to be deceased and to be in pain are not necessarily synonymous Sometimes we may have a disease, but we may not be in pain and That is although it may feel good. It is not good Because the disease internally is growing worse and worse on the other hand sometimes you may have pain, but you may not have a disease It was a circumstance I Fall down and sprain my leg.
I'm in pain, but there's no disease the sprain recovers after sometime everything gets all right so disease and pain Normally, there is a correlation, but it's not necessary correlation Now Material existence is for the soul a disease The soul is eternal and meant for eternal life in relationship with Krishna And this eternal life is driven by the desire for the eternal so the disease of the soul is That although it is eternal and meant for desiring the eternal the soul is currently desiring the temporary and of course because the soul Longs for the eternal the soul projects the hope for the eternal on the temporary And that's why we have so many romance movies which all Romance movies romance novels most of them end with H-E-A happily ever after And the Bhagavad Gita tells us Dukkhaalem Ashashvatam Exact opposite happily ever after Dukkhaalem Ashashvatam So is this word a happiness? Can we have happiness in this word? Bhagavad Gita says Dukkhaalem Can we have ever after? No, Ashashvatam It's temporary So What is now? When it's like this that the world is not meant to meant for misery Misery is a fact of life, but it is not the purpose of life Just like in a hospital When people are sick misery is a fact of the hospital But misery is not the purpose of the hospital It is not that the hospital creates new means to make people miserable Misery is simply there in the hospital And so similarly it is not that Krishna delights in causing misery to anyone Krishna wants all of us to be happy Even in a hospital There is a program to minimize and eliminate the pain of the patient so that program is the treatment given by the doctor and If the patient is having a disease and is in pain then the program of the doctor involves both curative medicines and pain-killing medicines, pain medicines So the pain medicine is meant to make life livable for the patient and then The curative medicine is meant to ensure the patient continues to live So both are required Similarly, Sri Prabhupada writes in the Ishopanishad Vidyam cha vidyam cha astad vedo vayamsav Avidyayam rithyam tirtha Vidyayam namah shuddhe And then Parpot where Prabhupada says that the sages have devised a program of balance material and spiritual life so the spiritual life the bhakti practice is the curative medicine and our material side the dharma artha kama that Development in that is like a pain killer Now even a patient is sick the stopping of the medicine May not cause pain immediately Whereas the stopping of the painkiller makes pain felt immediately So similarly if we stop chanting Hare Krishna, if you do not stop going to a temple, you may not feel any pain Okay, I was going I'm not going But if you stop taking food If you stop sleeping It causes immediate pain so When a patient is sick, the sickness does not seem as much an urgent problem as the pain The sickness and the pain are not the same thing they are related but they are not the same so treating the sickness does not seem to be as urgent a problem as treating or removing the pain So that's why in the material world in general when there is any material lacking at that time the absence of that material thing causes enormous pain And removing that becomes the first priority of almost everyone even people who are spiritualists If there is a disease, if we are hungry, unless we are specifically fasting for austerity, it becomes unbearable So the material level we all need certain needs to be fulfilled and Those needs can't be neglected. If we neglect them it causes pain which is unbearable It is not that that is the biggest pain. In fact, the soul's Disconnection from Krishna is the biggest problem, but that problem is not felt immediately So when people talk about material progress This can be done in three ways one is Material progress is seen as life's ultimate goal It's like the better the painkiller I get then my pain will be removed And that's why my life's goal is to only take painkillers and take nothing else Then that is actually going to make the disease worse and worse The other is even more damaging Where some people start thinking that if I just get a good enough painkiller, then I don't need the medicine at all So People start thinking that if we just progress materially well enough and there is no need for spiritual progress The third is That we understand that a certain level of material progress is necessary so that we can focus on spiritual progress Just like a patient who is in pain Can't really focus on taking the treatment now some treatments may just be taking a medicine But some treatments may involve doing some exercising Doing certain things so that nowadays a lot of people have brain degenerative diseases Alzheimer's Parkinson's and Then they have to do exercises cognitive exercises to keep their intelligence sharp if the body is in pain you can't do any kind of exercises So the pain has to be brought under a certain level of Regulation taken below a particular threshold so that the person can function normally then they can take the treatment Similarly for people to focus on spiritual life a certain level of material needs fulfillment is essential and That is why in the traditional culture We had the system of brahmanas and kshatriyas.
A major response of the kshatriyas was to take care of the material welfare of people and then Create system so that the brahmanas could take care of the spiritual welfare so Going back to the three points. I said earlier that some people especially say now last one last one and a half two years I have been by the instruction of senior Vaishnavas Spending a lot of time in the West almost the last one year having more than six months in America So I've been observing American civilization trying to reach out to American audiences, especially I've observed the comparative situations In India as well as in the West so in India Now the mainstream media says we are aspirational India. India is aspiring for growth, for progress for becoming a big player on the world stage and When compared to the West the level of Comforts or even physical needs being taken care of in India is much lesser Now this has both the advantage and disadvantage When there is not much material comfort If There is the absence of material comfort and then there is a craving for material comfort Then When the mind gets completely obsessed, so for example, it's hot And now either I can just make myself used to the heat or I can hope when will I get a fan When will I get a AC? When will I get a better AC? So now if the hope is just focused on material improvement The result is that one becomes spiritually blinded One starts thinking if I just get this this will solve my problem.
And yes at one level it does solve. Heat can be uncomfortable And so can be cold and Needing to mitigate that is important But if that becomes the goal of life Then the problem is one misses out on a more fundamental problem and one misses out and a more enduring solution Although at a material level People are much much more comfortable in the West than India but on an average One out of every five persons Suffers from clinical depression Not just some depression that would go and take you to clinical one out of every Four persons Thinks of suicide in some part of their lives one out of every ten person attempts to say So the sheer amount of distress at the mental level is unbearable That's why people in the West are comfortable and are comfortably miserable The body is comfortable, but the mind is miserable Now the mind being miserable has many different reasons and that itself is a whole subject But I would suffice it to say focus on one point here that Frustration is a function of expectation So when the expectation is set up That you get more and more material progress and you will become happy and then that doesn't work out Then what am I doing wrong? What should I be doing to become happy? so one of the biggest Misconceptions that comes when there's a lot of material progress is that people start thinking Happiness is the normal state in material existence And if I am not happy then I'm abnormal and everybody pretends to be happy But that doesn't mean that everybody should go out hanging with morose faces Everybody has problems, but when we are led to believe that happiness is a normal state in material existence then unhappiness seems unnatural and unbearable and Then on top of that when we are unhappy We start thinking something must be wrong with me. Maybe I have maybe I'm clinically depressed.
Maybe I have this problem Maybe I have that problem. Maybe I have that problem So if you have to begin with the understanding and in the material world Happiness is not the normal state That does not mean that we all have to be distressed But I'm talking simply about expectation over here in a hospital. We don't expect happiness That doesn't mean that the hospital is meant to maximize misery or all the patients have to be pessimistic No, not at all.
But the point is we have to have realistic expectation If I if I go into happen, you know, if we go to a hospital and imagine all the patients look very cheerful and They're all actually putting on a facade. They're all in pain, but they're looking very cheerful And if I alone go to the hospital and I'm in pain Everybody's happy And so Everybody is suffering but because of this facade Everybody is suffering alone So I am suffering Everybody else seems to be happy. So at one time in a college it happened and then there were Three depressed people And if they met each other and all three of them were putting on a Friends with their friends they put on a facade that you know, we are happy And all three of them were actually depressed And they all thought that other two are happy and then that same night all three went to the hostel and three of them committed suicide Thinking that the other two are happy.
I am unhappy So it's so tragic That we put on this facade which Denies the reality and which deprives us for of the opportunity for finding a solution so if material opulence is is touted is portrayed as the solution to all problems and When it doesn't turn out to be a solution Then it leads to unbearable frustration So one of the major reasons we have problems with the mind much much more than in the past is because We have so much expectation of material comfort And when that expectation is not fulfilled, we just don't know how to deal with it Not just material comfort alone it is material well-being Everything will work out right material comfort might be there. You may have air conditioners, you may have fast cars, you may have smooth planes but These things don't provide the real comfort. The real comfort comes from relationships when we have Close relationship with each other when we trust each other When we care for each other, then that is where the real comfort comes, but if everybody is alone Fighting their own battles and pretending to everything is good Then there can be no honest bonding that happens among people So The result of this is that the the tribulation the pain gets increased more and more so when Painkiller is given instead of the medicine It covers the pain temporarily, but after that the pain grows because the disease has been worsening and Then you need a higher dosage of pain killer And after some time no matter how high the dosage is it just doesn't work And what do we do at that time? Some people feel frustrated in life Because I wanted to achieve this and I couldn't achieve this.
I want to come first in IIT I wanted to get this job. I want to get this promotion. I wanted to get this award.
I couldn't get it That's why I'm frustrated Frustration on not achieving our goals is frustrating but There is another kind of frustration That comes on achieving our goals and finding that they're empty Achieve my goal and what to do after that I Wanted to get up this I want to get this big car. I want to get this big house. I want to get this What is there after that I had to set up another goal for myself and another goal and another goal So, so that that frustration Which comes when we achieve the goals we set for and find them disappointing That is very disorienting Because we just don't know what am I meant to live for? Repeat if we progress only at the material level through material advancement, but we don't get spiritual knowledge And the result is that We may have much to live with but very little to live for Much to live with refers to the resources for living.
Live for refers to the purpose for living We may have a lot to live with but very little to live for I Was in America in a city where we do college outreach to Western students And I was talking with this boy even he got became 18. He got an inheritance from his grandmother almost a million dollars Now his grandmother. Yeah, his mother was his daughter, but the mother and the grandmother didn't get along well So the grandmother said I will not give one penny to you.
I'll give it to my grandson And He got this and at that age of 18. He was just at around 17. He started exploring drugs and 18 when he got that million dollars in one year He spent a whole billion dollars on drugs.
Now a million dollars is how much? Six crores. Yeah, if you say 60 rupees per dollar So six crores he spent on drugs and not just drugs along with drugs everything else comes along and then at the end of it At least he had that was good sense the last money that he was made. He took that to admit himself in a drug de-addiction center And somehow by Krishna's mercy He met a devotee over there and now he started practicing bhakti And he is telling that Actually at one level getting that money was the worst thing that could happen to him Because then he so I was talking about what we live with and what we live for So if we do not have a spiritual understanding of life, then we do not have anything higher to live for we all need some goal some purpose for life and Usually our goals and purposes for life are set by our association By the culture by the social circle in which we live so if somebody starts telling that take drugs will feel high and Then that becomes the goal for the person's life Now we may consider drugs to be a terrible thing and it is terrible But essentially what is happening is that drugs are very destructive But whether something is Tamasic or something is Rajasic somebody just get infatuated with achievement I want to come first in this class.
I want to get the best employee award. I want to do this I want to do that and that may become as much of an infatuation the point is that we set up goals for our life based on our social circles and These goals are they really worth pursuing That is something which every one of us Has to introspect, but we can't unless we get some spiritual association Shri Ramanacharya in his Shri Bhashya commentary on the Vedanta Sutras First Sutra Atharvato Brahmachikhyansa. He writes almost a hundred page commentary and There he analyzes that what causes this Brahmachikhyansa to arise in people Brahmachikhyansa, spiritual inquiry, why does it occur in some people and why does it just not occur in other people? Nowadays there's a whole trend in In mainstream science to explain everything in terms of neuroscience This is spiritual people their brain is wired in a different way and materialistic people their brain is wired in a different way So if your brain is wired in this way, you'll be spiritually inclined If your brain is not wired in that way, you'll not be spiritually inclined Now brain wiring may be a fact, but it's also a fact that brain wiring can be changed the way we go through life the way we act Habits basically means we could say very strong brain wiring in a particular direction So, what is it that causes Spiritual inquiry to be present going back to our earlier example.
We're talking about the painkiller and the medicine. So What is it that will make a person? Stop chasing after a new painkiller and inquire. What is the disease? What will be the curative medicine for it? How does that happen? That happens Primarily three factors are there.
One is one's own past spiritual information Purva bhyasena tenaiva riyate yavasopi saha Krishna when he's talking in the sixth chapter About the yogis who have been yoga bhrastha in 6.43 and 44 He talks about what one has practiced in one's spiritual life that comes back and makes one helplessly attracted towards spirituality And there are people all over the world like this who are attracted to something higher So that's just there in there We could say in their genes if you want to use biology or we could say it is there in the samskaras if you want to use Vedic terms so it is there and at a particular circumstance it will get manifested Now what circumstance will that be? I'll come to that a little later, but that's one possibility that There are impressions from the past which make people Inquire about spirituality. The second is spiritual association Sangat sanjayate kamaha Normally we use this from the context of the Bhagavad Gita to refer to from attachment infatuation, a strong desire comes Arshila Prabhupada also uses a secondary meaning of the word sanga, association Sangat sanjayate kamaha means in association desire develops So even people who are materialistic if they associate with spiritualists then They their spiritual inclination may also arise And the third is a combination of everything Sometimes you know when we speak to people and we tell them about Krishna, we tell them about Atma and it's just like a light goes on in them It just everything falls in place makes sense to them But for some people we speak to them and it's like speaking to a wall Yes, nothing makes sense to them So it's not that we are bad or they are bad It's of course we can always improve in our presentation skills, but we don't have to condemn them They are just materialistic. We were also materialistic at some time if not in this life in a previous life so the point is all of us are on a multi-life journey of spiritual evolution and When that spiritual inclination will activate we don't know sometimes it may happen that They some people have some past impression But they need a particular situation in this life for the past impression to get active or for some people they may Have the past impression and They need the past impression to be activated by association this life But even both of this is not enough there is a past impression There is present association, and then there is a future complication in their life and at that complication They remember the word they heard in association, and that's where the activation happens So sometimes what happens is we open the door to Krishna for some people.
Please come to a temple. Please come for a program And if they don't show interest then we bang the door in their face It's a materialistic fallen useless person We don't have to do that. We open the door and keep the door open.
If you find that they are not interested Then just end the interaction on a positive note. Let them feel that I met a nice person I don't I don't want to do what they're doing, but I met a nice person And if that much happens then eventually when the situation will come in their life their spiritual inclination will activate So if we see I'll take two examples from the Bhagavatam. We take the example of Gajendra so he had to Go to a situation of material deprivation For the spiritual activation to take place he had practiced bhakti in his previous life Those impressions were there, but those impressions did not Manifest as spirituality right from his birth But when he came to a situation of material deprivation That was the time when that happened It got activated So praag janmani anuksheeshta.
It is said that At that time he started offering prayers what the prayers he had remembered, the wisdom he had remembered in the previous life became activated So it was past impression was there, but a present situation was required And the situation was of Removal of material opulence. He was in an influential situation and an influential situation had to be removed Now let's take a little more complicated example that is of Dhruva Maharaj and try to analyze this in terms of the painkiller and the curative medicine medicine So for Dhruva the pain which he faced When he was disregarded by his father and insulted by his stepmother that was unbearable and that pain Made him go to Vishnu And when he went to Vishnu his goal was there is no interest in spiritual life per se He wanted material things. So he went to a doctor.
I don't want a medicine, curative medicine. I just want a painkiller Like that, but what happened in the process of taking the medicine In the process of worshipping Lord Vishnu He became purified And as he became purified the result was that he realized his painkiller is insubstantial Kaacham vichinvanapi devive ratnam His material opulence, his kingdom is like broken pieces of glass. What am I going to get out of it? My dear Lord, your darshan, your devotion That is like a jewel.
That is what I want The Lord gave, when he had that conviction, when he had that realization that Material opulence is nothing great. The Lord Gave him spiritual opulence, but did not take away his material opulence Why? Because for him the material opulence was not going to be a distraction So as long as we think the painkiller is the solution, then the painkiller remains a distraction But if we see the painkiller as just a painkiller, it's managing the pain so that I can focus on the medicine Then the painkiller does not become a distraction and it doesn't have to be removed When Srila Prabhupada went to Mayapur, now At that time Mayapur was from the material perspective It was quite undeveloped, backward and Prabhupada said that we are building these big buildings We want to have comfortable facilities so that Materially minded people can also come over here. The point is we don't want to just provide the material comforts But for many people the lack of material comforts is such a discomfort that they will not come for spirituality also So when there is some level of material comfort available Then okay, this is there, then I'll come there and then they'll be open to spirituality also So earlier I said that being in disease and being in pain are not necessarily correlated So for most of us in the material world We are diseased, but we are not always in pain Sometimes we have pain shooting up very hard, but most of the times we think things are all right or things will soon become all right So that's why we don't feel that we are diseased That's why people don't feel the need for any treatment If at all they feel the need for any improvement, it's at the material level, not at the spiritual level So it's important that for such people the basic level of material things be provided for And then they'll practice spiritually So Now I'll conclude with two points and then you can have question answers that We don't know What pain who is in and what painkiller is necessary for him? Some people have a very great Intolerance to low temperatures, intolerance to cold So if the air becomes cold, they just can't, they have to have sweater, they have to have muffler Only then they can function Now for somebody else They may just wear a uttari and be out in the cold and nothing happens to them You may think of this person is so detached, this person is so attached It may not be like that at all It's just a functional need of the body That some bodies have a higher tolerance to cold and some bodies have a lower tolerance to cold so For the person who needs a muffler, a sweater That is simply a painkiller so that they can focus on the medicine So it's not important whether I'm coming out in the morning wearing a sweater and a muffler or I'm coming simply in uttari What is important is what am I remembering? If I'm remembering Krishna, then I'm growing spiritually If I'm just wearing uttari and I'm looking at everyone who is wearing a sweater and they are so attached, I am so detached Then those who are wearing sweater may be making more advancement than me Because I am proud that I'm not taking the painkiller But in the pride that I'm not taking the painkiller, I am ending up not taking the medicine So therefore we have to be understanding About the different needs of different people and we don't judge people Based on what painkiller they need So some people who have been born and brought up in very opulent families For them to accept physical austerity is very difficult I was talking with one devotee.
I'm a part of the Shastra Advisory Council. So we're planning some Retreat where we could intensely study and work together. They're thinking of doing this in July So this devotee said that I'm dedicated to this service, but I'm not so dedicated that I'll tolerate summer of India in July So I said I'll come in the first part of the year, the end of the year, but not in July Millions of people living in India in summer.
Why can't you live? No, but for their body, it's unbearable So this is not attachment This is just a human need There is a human need which should not be mistaken to be attachment In America there are many Having pets is a big obsession especially dogs And when I went to America for the first time I found that many devotees also have pet dogs So I was a little taken aback But then as I inquired more and more I found that it's It's quite a subtle thing. It's not a complex thing. It's not a gross thing.
Oh, you're so attached there are some dogs which are called as What is the word for it? They are called as rescue and therapy dogs Not CI, this is different What I'm talking about is there's a devotee wherever he would go, a very senior devotee Wherever he would go, his dog would be right next to him So I was wondering what is this? So then he told me that this dog, he has epilepsy and he gets spits at any time and this dog is trained so that whenever somebody gets epilepsy the dog immediately comes and cushions and then dog starts barking and The dog knows, you know what medicine to get if you have epilepsy and you put some like Some oxygen or some kind of gas in front of the face and dog is trained for all that These are expensive dogs which require special training for this And this dog has saved my life three times till now Just because sometimes an epilepsy comes, may fall on some hard object, may fall in the middle of a street, may die over there So if I don't know the background then I may think hey, why is he so attached? But it's not attachment It is just the need over there. Now, of course when somebody is having a disease like that we can understand very easily I was in one place and I heard of one Mataji She had a pet dog and when that pet dog died, that is the only time in her life when she was awake all night Sitting by the side of the pet dog and she chanted 128 rounds for that pet dog And then she was having Prabhupada Dhoon going on and when Prabhupada was reciting Chintamani Prakara Satmashu, at that time the dog left his body So now, I was thinking, why do all this for a dog? But then the devotees who were there They told me that actually this Mataji, she had gone through three bad marriages Abusive marriages. One was before she became a devotee, two after she became a devotee and then her spiritual master also had fallen and given up his service.
Her temple president had also, the person who had introduced her to Krishna Bhakti had also left Krishna Bhakti So she said that I cannot trust any human being in my life So I know Krishna is the ultimate goal of my life, but I cannot trust any human being So while I am practicing Krishna Bhakti, I need to reciprocate with someone The only person I can reciprocate with is a dog Now, you know initially, we say why is a devotee doing like that? But we hear the background and the whole question is how can someone who has gone through all this still be a devotee? So we don't know what pain who is in. I met one boy who was in foster care. Foster care means that if a child does not have parents, the child is orphaned, then the child is taken to orphanage and if some parents, some family adopts them, that is called the foster family So now he had gone.
Now many times when the parents adopt a child especially if the child is not small, is grown up, then if they don't, it doesn't work then they give the child back and sometimes the foster child has to go through many hoops So then I asked him What happened? Is it that your parents passed away in an accident or something? He said no, both my parents are alive If your parents are alive, then why are you in foster care? He said when I was five my parents divorced and normally if the parents divorce, then there are custody battles because both parents want the child and then often it becomes quite bitter, but in this case both the parents said They told this child only My marriage to my spouse was the biggest mistake of my life and you remind me of my biggest mistake so I don't want anything to do with you and both parents abandoned the child Now This child is grown up, he is now in a college studying, but he is so deeply psychologically scarred So he says that, you know whenever he hears any verse which compares God to a father or a mother, he feels very uncomfortable Because his experience with the father and mother was very negative So now the same thing, you know, Krishna Mata, Krishna Pitta, you know, wonderful But somebody else, it will cause unbearable. So we basically don't know what pain who is going through And for their situation of pain, if they need a painkiller, we shouldn't judge them for that Now humility means This is, I like to put things in, I like Gita Devi articles where I try to put things accidentally, so I have My understanding of what humility means. Humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality Humility means to understand, to acknowledge the complexity of reality That means I see somebody behaving in a particular way and by my conception if I see somebody always with a dog He is so attached.
That's my conception But what is actually going on, I do not know I do not know that. So to acknowledge the complexity of reality So who is in what pain we don't know and if some people need certain painkillers, that's fine with them Let them take the painkiller, but help them to focus on taking the curative medicine If they're practicing bhakti, if they need certain things, we provide them that Second point I'll speak and conclude is that, here I'll talk about renunciation a little bit We are in a moment where we emphasize renunciation quite a bit and that's important at one level At the same time we have to see that even renunciation or the capacity for renunciation Is something which is different in different people Now the renunciation that a devotee manifests can come from two sources One is by their practice of bhakti, they develop detachment Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojita-jani-atyāshvairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ce vairāyatukam that When you practice bhakti, the attachment to Krishna brings attachment to worldly things. That's true But that doesn't mean that This detachment will necessarily manifest in an equal way in everyone So for example We also know Krishna has six opulences, one of them is renunciation and we also know that the wealth or beauty or Strength, all these result because of, if these are present in a person, that is the result of past good karma If somebody has very attractive looks, you understand they did some punya in the past life That's why they have such good looks.
If somebody is intelligent, very intelligent, somebody is very wealthy We understand this is the result of past good karma So similarly some people by their past good karma may have renunciation in this life and that renunciation May have nothing to do with spirituality One of the greatest ironies of the 20th century was that Hitler who was responsible for the killing of 12 million people That Hitler was a vegetarian He caused the death of millions of people, but he would not kill animals for eating food Now does that mean all the people who are vegetarian That means are all the people who are non-vegetarian worse than Hitler No He was much much worse. So he had that whatever reason, whatever inclination, whatever situation He was having that detachment from meat, but that has nothing to do with the overall character of a person His overall character was demonic So the point which I'm making is Different people by their past karma will have different capacities for renunciation and sometimes if we make our Capacity for renunciation as this definer of our spiritual advancement Now what does renunciation basically mean? Renunciation means at one level the capacity to live without painkillers Going back to the example of curative medicine and painkilling medicine Renunciation means the capacity to live with as less painkillers as possible with much less painkillers than other people Now this could be a result of spiritual advancement, but it could also be a result of past karma Now if we start thinking that My goal is renunciation or my success is renunciation If I become renounced then I'll be successful now I have renounced I'm successful Then what happens is we are actually in the same consciousness of materialistic people, but in the opposite way Materialistic people are thinking that getting better and better painkillers is the solution to all problems And we are thinking that giving up more and more painkillers is the solution to all problems But no the solution is taking the medicine So if somebody is not able to have a particular level of renunciation Is not able to live without painkillers. There is nothing seriously wrong with it.
That is just the way the body-mind is made And we have to live with the body-mind that we have and some others have to live with the body-mind that they have So rather than making renunciation our goal, we have to make devotion our goal And while practicing devotion while taking the curative medicine we also Find out what is the dose of painkiller I need so that I can focus on the medicine some people may need more some people may need less and Some people may not need any painkiller at all But the important thing is how many are taking the medicines? so if we don't get this distracted by the painkiller we focus on the medicine then we will make steady spiritual advancement and If you make renunciation the barometer of our spiritual advancement That has two negative results if we succeed in renunciation we become very proud And it look down at everyone else so forth so forth it's like Renunciation is basically Renunciation alone is not spiritual advancement Renunciation is a tool for spiritual advancement Just like wealth is a tool for spiritual advancement somebody has money they can use it for so much service for Krishna Somebody's renunciation they can use it for serving Krishna But when renunciation is made into spiritual advance and is equated with spiritual advancement Then we are meant to use our renunciation To look up undistracted at Krishna but instead We may misuse renunciation to look down at others so far so I Yesterday was a college he can fast on a color. He was wonderful. We are fasting on a color.
She and looking at who all is eating what? Then what is happening? Our body is fasting, but our ego is he stick And we don't make much spiritual advancement So if even if we succeed in renunciation that only increases our ego It doesn't increase our devotion if we have made renunciation the standard conversely if we fail in renunciation We want to be here, but I can't be here. We fail that renunciation then we become so discouraged that we stop practicing devotion There is no need at all to practice to stop practicing devotion just because we cannot have any particular level of renunciation Devotion is what we can practice no matter what happens There is a we may fall down, but we don't have to fall away Fall down means you're going along the path and there are some lapses that we just happen to everyone That's just the nature of the world, but fall away means we give up the practice of We don't have to ever do that Even if renunciation doesn't work out even if we need painkillers Have we don't get a pain killers as long as we're taking the medicine that is the most important thing Because that medicine is what is going to cure us so when you focus on Taking the medicine and then we based on our situation our disposition our body mind Find out what we need so that we can peacefully focus on taking the medicine Then we can steadily move towards Krishna. You know that the Capacity for renunciation or the incapacity for renunciation all this is a result of past Karma But Krishna is beyond Karma and Krishna can help us to come to him no matter what Karma we are in so No, whatever Karma may get us to Krishna will get us through Whatever Karma may get us to whatever situation whatever problem whatever adversity Karma may get us to Krishna will get us through so rather than Obsessing over.
Why is this happening? Why I'm not able to do this. Why is this person doing like this? focus on Krishna How can I survive? We focus on that and that karmic situation will be there. There'll be difficulties.
There'll be pain We'll find some pain killer sooner or later, but eventually we'll be taking the medicine and then move towards Krishna So I'll summarize what I spoke today. I Spoke about How To understand the complex relationship between Material Advancement and Spiritual Advancement So material advancement for a sick patient is like taking a painkiller and Spiritual Advancement is like taking the curative medicine Many times patients may be sick, but they may not be in pain like in cancer So material existence is like a cancerous state Where till we become old, diseased we may not feel ourselves in pain But the disease is there. The disease is basically misdirected desire We are eternal beings and we are meant to love the supreme eternal being, but instead our love is directed towards temporary material things So we are looking for happily ever after in a place that is Dukhaalaya Mahashayaswatham While we are living in the material world, there is a balance required that Just as when a patient is sick and is in pain, the doctor gives pain medicine to manage the pain and curative medicine to heal the disease similarly material satisfaction of material needs is like the pain medicine and Practice of Bhakti is the curative medicine So when there is a balance of both we can move forwards Imbalance happens when somebody thinks that the material progress alone is enough or worse still material progress makes spiritual quest unnecessary It's like the painkiller alone is enough or the pain because I take the painkiller.
I don't need the medicine at all So that happens that we have to strongly challenge and critique the limitations of material progress But it is not that the material needs themselves are to be denied Because When a patient is in pain if the painkiller is stopped the patient feels much more pain than when the curative medicine is stopped Similarly when spiritual advancement is not done, we don't feel much pain But if our food, clothing, shelter, if these are not there, we feel pain. So the provision of these is also important and But if only this is provided for Then we have a situation where we have a lot to live with but nothing to live, little to live for And this we may be physically comfortable, but mentally miserable And In such a situation if we get more and more material resources that will only increase our material distress Just like I talked about this boy who got a million dollars and he got addicted because of that so The infatuation along with material, infatuation of material things along with provision of material things It's a deadly combination which can lead to tremendous entanglement But when we are practicing bhakti at that time Because each of us is coming from a different background, each of us we may need our own dosage and type of painkillers So I gave three examples, one of this This may be centered on dogs, about how somebody may need Somebody may need, before that, somebody may need warm clothing. That doesn't mean that they are attached Somebody may need, they have epileptic feet, so they need a dog to save them from epileptic feet Somebody just have severe trust issues, and that's why they need something So whatever it is, I'm not advocating painkillers.
I'm in no way saying that we should adopt pet dogs I'm only saying that we don't judge others simplistically based on our preconceptions Humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality So rather than judging people based on the painkiller that they are taking, we can focus on what is the curative medicine that they are taking And in our own life Renunciation can be a result of our devotion, but renunciation can also be a result of our past spiritual life. I talked earlier about how When does a person become spiritually inclined? It may be because of past spiritual practice, it may be because of present association Or it may be because of present situation, or it may be a combination of everything. Analyze Dhruva and Gajendra's examples so some people If they do not have a capacity for renunciation, that doesn't mean that they cannot practice devotion So if we make renunciation our standard of spiritual advancement instead of devotion Then if we are successful in renunciation, we become proud and again we get distracted It's like I take soulless painkillers, so I'm healthy.
No, but are you taking the medicine? Are you getting cured? Or somebody, they can't be renounced, so they become discouraged. Oh, I can't live without this painkiller Doesn't matter, take the painkiller to focus on the medicine. So we may Fall down, but we don't have to fall away And sometimes we may be battered by our mind, our senses and it may just be the result of past karma But whatever karma may get us to, Krishna will get us through.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna Are there any questions or comments? I have a question. One thing I understood from your class, that one thing is personal activation, not daily activities And one thing is, we have to also apply that in our preaching, not to judge people and apply that in our preaching So if we try to restrict preaching, like we have, as you told, competently misled them Already they are on the second level of consciousness.
How do you already realize that? So if people in the best are already comfortable, and although they are internally miserable, but they are comfortable And then we are meant to be non-judgmental. So how do we present Krishna Bhakti to them? People are very open to experience Broadly speaking, when Krishna Prabhupada went to America in the 1970s, that was a time when the hippie movement was there And the youth at that time were rejecting western culture and were exploring alternatives Now people are open to experiences, but they are not interested at all in rejecting anything I have my life, I am open to things which will give me more experiences and I am ready to add to my life But they are not in the mood of rejection. So that's why, that mood, Prabhupada did not use that rejection more than in India also In the best, becoming a devotee primarily meant living everything and moving to the temple But when Prabhupada came to India, most Indians were not interested in that So what did Prabhupada do? He started life membership And life membership means very little commitment in a sense Just give some Lakshmi and then have the facility to come to the temple, where you can grow spiritually So Prabhupada was very pragmatic.
According to situation, he gave the presentation of Bhakti At one level, moving into the temple was becoming a devotee, becoming connected with Krishna At another level, becoming a life member, which is very far away, you could say But he gave the facility for people to connect with Krishna in whatever situation they were in So similarly, we have to find out how we can get people to connect with Krishna So people are very open to experiences. The western world is a multicultural world Multicultural world means that there are different cultures and there are different ways of living And we want to know about these different ways of living If any cultures are saying we are the best or this is the truth, this is what you have to do That will be labeled as fanatical and sectarian and will be rejected But if we present ourselves that this is what we do, this is why we do it Then people are interested in knowing it So I like to play with words. So I say that there are three ways in which you can present spirituality It's prescriptive, normative and descriptive Prescriptive means this is what you have to do.
This is what you should do Normative means this is the truth and all this is false Descriptive means this is what we do and this is why we do it So prescriptive and normative modes just don't work People just don't. An example is given that That's the postmodern ethos. Postmodern means people just reject all authority That's the idea.
In pre-modern times, people accepted scripture as authority Whether it's Bible or Koran or Vedas In the modern times, people accepted science as authority But in postmodern times, nothing is the authority Neither scripture nor science. People use the products of science Technology people are infatuated with But people don't believe in science as a source of ultimate knowledge or ultimate good So the only authority is experience If I experience something to be good, I am open to it So they give an example that if a couple is counseling a young couple Now we have been happily married for the last 25 years Then the young couple says, how did you do it? Please tell us They are interested. But the same elderly couple says We have been married for 25 years and we never even considered divorce And no one of you should divorce They say, you get lost That's prescriptive.
You should do this. No, it doesn't work Normative is, we have been married for the last 25 years We believe divorce is a sin against God And those who divorce will go to hell They will say, you go to hell first. We don't care for you So any kind of imposition is seen Any kind of imposition or any kind of absolute truth claim That is not accepted Now when teaching scripture, eventually we do have to give instruction Eventually we do have to talk this is the truth But we are talking about initial stages We have to be descriptive Please explain, this is what I practice, this is why I practice this And if we don't come off as imposing, people are interested in exploring And then when they explore, they get, this makes sense This works, this feels good Let me try it more So if we can present bhakti in a descriptive way At least in the initial stages Then people don't feel threatened People don't feel things are being imposed on them And then they start taking up So that is something which is vital We have to understand the pulse of the times And present ourselves accordingly So one devotee when I started going to America He told me that if you think that you are going to deliver America Americans will deliver you back to India Of course we are no one to deliver anyone We are in the service of Shri Prabhupada But the whole idea is that we are simply servants And being a servant means Understanding what is the obstacle That is stopping this person from coming to Krishna And removing that obstacle So if that obstacle is Their conception that religion is sectarian Religion is divisive Religion is bigoted Religion is imposing Then don't talk about that Present religion as a way of exploring a new way of living There is a materialistic gag against Christianity Gag means like a joke In the bible it said In the beginning was the word and the word was God So the materialist would say In the beginning was the word and the word was no The word was no means You can't do this, you can't do that That is their idea of religion You can't do this, you can't do this All the good things of life religion deprives of that So we don't adopt a normative or prescriptive way Focus on a descriptive way And there are three broad trends You could say four actually Which indicate the rise of sattva Even in the Rajasic west One is the increased interest in yoga Enormous The number of people in America who practice yoga Are almost 100 times more than India If you consider percentage wise In India it's like 1 in 1000 person practices yoga In America 1 in 10 person has actually done a registered yoga course And they practice yoga at some level Second is the vegan movement Vegan, becoming vegans Not just vegetarians but no animal products So it's considered very cool It's become very big India is like almost 50 years behind And even now movies show as if Becoming non-vegetarian is cool But in the west becoming vegan is a very big thing So third is environmental consciousness People are very very conscious that the earth is We are polluting the earth and we need to take care of the earth So all this is indicating sattva guna And the fourth is mindfulness Buddhist mindfulness has become big And people are looking for healing Through these techniques Through breathing, through living in the present Through becoming mindful So instead of taking When they have mental problems Instead of taking antidepressants Instead of taking tranquilizers They are turning more and more towards this So there is the rising of sattva And these four trends They are much more in the west than in India India right now we are seeing the rise of rajas The mode of passion is rising more and more in India But there is frustration with the mode of passion And through that the mode of goodness is rising That doesn't mean the overall society is not passionate It is But these trends are rising over there And if we can present bhakti through these trends Then we have a big opportunity To get people who are already somewhat Spiritually inclined or spiritually evolved To get them to the path which will complete their spiritual evolution To get them to Krishna Okay? So you had a comment? Prabhupada said In a conversation He said The key audience Prabhupada was Commenting the book Regarding the audience In conversation he used The key audience In the western India In western India it is very different Yes Thank you for the comment So Any one question? Yes Yeah Did you have any questions? Yeah Okay What is the difference between humility and honesty And how are they connected with spirituality? Okay See The basic connection is That We grow spiritually when we feel the need for Krishna We feel the need for Krishna at various levels So Ultimately That is a need out of love There can be a need out of pain also So Krishna without you I am in so much pain So please come So whatever it is We have to feel the need for Krishna So when we lack humility When we have pride That means we feel I am self sufficient I don't need Krishna So it could be for solving my personal problems Say I need If I have a good job If I have a lot of money What do I need God for? God is for poor people If I am outgoing If I am courageous Then God is for fearful people People who can't Timid people who can't face life I can face life I don't need God Yes God God can help those who are fearful But God can help those who are fearless also You may be fearless But you may be fearlessly foolish I may be fearless But I may be fearlessly going towards a dead end in my life So God We may all feel the need for Krishna in different ways And humility means acknowledging the need for Krishna Pride makes us feel that I don't need Krishna So in the context of relationships When I said humility means to acknowledge the complexity of reality That means That I don't know Why is this person behaving in this way So Krishna has to reveal to me So I should not form a judgement I should not form a label But rather I should observe I should try to observe Try to learn more So Krishna will reveal to me Prabhupada himself was a pure devotee of Mahabhag But when he was going to America What was he saying? Krishna you please make my words understandable to them That means he is saying essentially that I don't know how I will communicate to them But you are in their hearts You are in my heart So please give me the words by which I can speak By which you in their heart can understand They won't understand So to the extent we feel the need for Krishna We naturally have humility And I would say honesty is related Honesty basically means In this context Acknowledging the finiteness of our capacities Finiteness of our capacities Whatever it may be Ok I have a lot of money Still my money is finite And tomorrow something may go wrong I may lose everything Today I may be brilliant But tomorrow what if I get Alzheimer's And I forget everything including that I am brilliant So many things can go wrong in life So honesty means My capacities are there But they are finite And they are temporary They will be there and they will go So then when we acknowledge the finiteness And the temporariness of our capacities Then that brings humility I need Krishna Even if I feel that I don't need Krishna right now I actually need him And then we can move towards Krishna So without humility, without honesty Spirituality often becomes a social cosmetic It's something which we put on to look good in front of the world I am also spiritual But actually we don't feel a need for Krishna We don't go closer to Krishna We just are situated in our own comfort zone So with humility and honesty Then our spirituality becomes a drive That takes us closer to Krishna And that transforms our heart From its love for worldly things To love for Krishna Ok We will stop here Thank you very much Shri Shri Kali Charan Puri Jai Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai Gaur Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jai Tai Gaur Prema De Shri Shri Kali Charan Puri Jai Sri Prabhupada Ki Jai.