Appreciating bhakti as a spiritual science

[Congregation program at London, UK]

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

So, thank all of you for coming today evening. I am thinking whether I should thank Sundar Anand for the introduction, because some introductions build up to the class and some introductions, they make whatever class that is going to come after that an anticlimax. So, this is a, this is that kind of introduction.

I do not think I can live up to whatever he has spoken, but still I will try to serve. So, as mentioned, I will speak today on the topic of Bhakti as a spiritual science. Within this, I will take this in three parts and in, Prabhupada will always talk about how Bhakti is a relationship, in the Chaitanya Charitamrita, Sambandha Krishna, Abhidheya Bhakti, Prema Prayojan.

So, in any relationship, there is the object of love, the person whom we love, that is Krishna, the subject of love, that is the soul, we all of us, and there is the interaction of love. There is a process by which we develop love. So, I will talk briefly about the object of love and the subject of love, and I will primarily focus on the process of interaction.

So, the Anand Vrindavan Champu is one of the books written by our Acharyas, Kavi Karunapur. He especially describes how Krishna's pastimes are there, especially in Vrindavan, he has, in his divine trance, he has envisioned those pastimes. Whatever is described in the 10th Canto, he describes it in much more detail and much more poetic and metaphorical richness.

So, Kavi is not just a title for him, he is a superb poet. So, there he gives one fascinating insight about Krishna's all-attractiveness. He says Krishna's all-attractive means that he attracts everyone.

So, how does this happen in Vrindavan? He says that, say a mother, Krishna has different relationships with different people, and for different relationships, different moods or different forms are appropriate. That means, for mother Yashoda, she feels the greatest love for Krishna in the Balarupa. Krishna as a small child, mothers always have affection for their children, but if the child is especially small, then because the child is so dependent on the mother, the mother's love is the most for the child.

And so, he says, so he explains that the Balarupa is the Vatsalya Rasa Ashraya, Vatsalya Rasa is maternal or parental love, and the form that is the shelter for parental love is the Balarupa. Then, as a child grows up, the child discovers friends. And then, if we have some friendships formed in childhood, those friendships are among the closest.

So, he says that the Kumara Rupa, the Kumara Rupa is the Ashraya for the Sakya Rasa, for the relationship of friendship, so Krishna up to five, six, that is Vatsalya Rasa, Krishna between five to ten, and thereafter roundabouts, there are proximate ages. That is the time in Krishna when the friends are closest to each other. And then, he says that, especially then as teenage comes in, in this material world, puberty sets in.

Then, that is when the male-female attraction is the strongest. So, the Kaishora Rupa of Krishna, that is the Ashraya for the Madhurya Rasa. So, the Gopis, they are attracted to Krishna when he is a youth.

Yes, Radharani and Krishnani, which are their friends, they are small babies. But, their attraction matures, and the special flavor of their amorous relationship, their conjugal relationship, that manifests in the Kaishora Rupa. So, he says the Kaishora Rupa is the Ashraya for the Madhurya Rasa.

Now, if each Rasa is Ashrit, is sheltered, is manifested most intensely in a particular form, then how does Krishna reciprocate love with everyone? So, he explains that actually, what is the age of Krishna eternally in the spiritual world is Kishor. There is no time as we know it in the material world. Time is whatever exists in the material world, that can exist in the spiritual world simply for the service of Krishna.

So, in this world, the time controls. Now, we meet someone, we love being with them, but then time gets over, you know. They have to go, we have to go.

We love to be with them, but we have to leave. But when Krishna is performing Rasalila with the Gopis, he is not looking at the watch. Oh, I have to go now.

What Krishna does is, he expands time. So, time exists in the spiritual world, but time is not the controller. Krishna is the controller.

So, time, the cycle, the time moves. There is morning, there is afternoon, there is evening, there is night, but the cycling of time simply increases the variegatedness of Krishna's pastimes. So, whatever age everyone is in the spiritual world, they eternally stay at the same age.

So, in this world, time controls and time destroys. We may be young, healthy, good looking, but as we age, all that youth, health, good looks, they all deteriorate. But this does not happen in the spiritual world.

So, Krishna eternally is youthful. In the spiritual world, he is Kaishora, but there is Yoga Maya. In the manner, I am giving a series of classes about the nature of Maya.

I will be talking about Yoga Maya in detail in the class on Saturday. But suffice it to say that Yoga Maya is the illusion that increases devotion. The normal Maya is the illusion that deteriorates devotion.

We get attracted to things of this world, we are no longer attracted to Krishna. Yoga Maya is the illusion that increases devotion. So, how does this happen? So, this happens by Yoga Maya arranging for Krishna to manifest the form that is most attractive in each relationship.

So, Krishna is Kaishora Rupa, but when he is interacting with his Sakhas, to them, Yoga Maya arranges so that they feel as if he is a Kaumara Rupa. He is just a small, he is a boy, just a young boy. In pre-puberty, the friendship among friends is the most.

Afterwards, the passions of youth start coming in and the relationship comes into play. When Krishna is with the Gopas, he is just with the Gopas. And whenever the same Krishna, he comes back home to Mother Yashoda, that same Krishna who appears like a Kaishora to the Gopis, he appears like a Bal to Mother Yashoda.

And thus, by seeing him, her devotion overflows in her heart. So, this is just one example of how Krishna is all-attractive. Although certain features are attractive at certain ages to certain groups, but Krishna through his Yoga Maya arranges that he can be attractive to everyone.

Now, when we try to share Krishna consciousness with others, share Bhakti wisdom, then you have to think which audience I am going to target. Now devotees, I will present this way. New Indian people, I will present this way.

New Western people, I will present that way. No, but Krishna is omnipotent that he can be the same person, but he appears differently for different people. And that way he attracts everyone's hearts.

So, this is the unique feature of Krishna. His sarva-akarshati iti Krishna. He attracts everyone.

And that same Krishna who is there in the spiritual world, although he has innumerable devotees in the spiritual world, he loves every single devotee and every single soul. Krishna has an individual personal relationship with them. And in movies, in novels, sometimes there is a love triangle.

Two boys love one girl. If that girl reciprocates with one boy, then she cannot be available for the other boy. But Krishna, he can fully reciprocate with one person and yet be fully available to the other person.

That is Krishna's uniqueness. So, from our perspective, Krishna is never unavailable. He is always available to us.

Unfortunately, Kulshekar Maharaj, in one of his prayers, he says that, why are we so foolish that we chase after unavailable masters in this world? Who, he says that, you know, we are looking for a master in this world who will reward us with some little money, some little wealth. And on the other hand, we have this eternal master there with us always. Why? Why do we? Aho naraka vayaka vayam.

How unfortunate it is that we give up the Lord who is eternally available and we chase after people who are sometimes available, sometimes not available. So, Krishna is always available for us. Even now when we are turned away from him, he is still there in our hearts.

He never leaves us. Now, in fact, there is nothing that any of us can ever do that can make Krishna stop loving us. Nothing.

Even if we do the most sinful activity, even if we do the most offensive activity, Krishna will never stop loving us. So, Krishna's love in that sense is unfailing and unflinching. He always loves us and never stops loving us.

And we as souls, we can find fulfillment. Our hearts are made in such a way that our hearts remain restless till they rest in Krishna. We may find some fulfillment in various relationships in this world, but our hearts remain restless till they find rest in Krishna.

And actually the devotee's vision is that Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. So, Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Why is that His coming? So, Krishna is, we are all made in such a way that our hearts remain restless till they rest in Krishna. Now, there is one vision that when we think we should love Krishna, that means that we reject all the loves of this world. But that is one way of looking at it.

And the Bhagavatam, if we see the Dhruva Maharaj pastime, where Dhruva's mother, she tells Dhruva that whatever love I have offered you, Lord Vishnu can offer you millions of times more love. So now, what does this mean? If her love for her child is false, if that is zero, then millions of times zero will still remain zero. So her love is not false.

She really loves her child. But she understands that there is only so much I can do. I am a finite being and there is only so much I can do.

She directs her aim towards the Lord. So, the understanding of a devotee is that, of a spiritual seeker on the devotional path is that we all may get love in different relationships in this world. In the relationships that we do experience love, we respect and we reciprocate with the person who offers us love.

At the same time, we understand that it is actually Krishna loving us through that person. It is Krishna's love who is coming through that person to me. And some people disappoint us, some people frustrate us, some people break our hearts.

So when that happens, how do we as devotees see it? That Krishna, you know, he pulls us towards him through some people and that same Krishna pushes us to him towards some people. So some people act as Krishna's agents by manifesting love and some people pull us towards Krishna, serve the same purpose, draw us towards Krishna, push us towards Krishna by being apathetic, by being harsh, by being unforgiving, by being cruel. So devotee sees everything as meant to draw us towards Krishna's love.

And with this vision, we can always be moving towards Krishna. Whether our relationships in this world are fulfilling or the relationships in this world are frustrating. Now, this, I'll come to the third part now, about the process.

We talked about Krishna, we talked briefly about ourselves, and the object of love, the subject of love, and we'll now discuss about the process of love. Some people say, you know, love should be spontaneous. You know, that actually, if you're attracted to someone, you love them.

If you're not attracted, you don't love them. You know, so what is this whole process of bhakti yoga? Wherein we say that we actually will develop our love for Krishna. So the word love itself has many different meanings.

So in Portland in America, I was there about a month or so ago, I gave a class on, can we love someone whom we hate? So, can we love someone whom we hate? And in that I discussed five different meanings, five different senses of the word love. So love can have many different meanings. Now, love can mean attraction.

So, you know, say a boy and a girl meet each other. And then as soon as they see each other, they feel that, you know, some electric current went through my body. They feel attracted to each other.

So that is attraction. That can be at one level. So that's how the normal sense we use the word.

Now people fall in love with each other. So that is, love is often used in the sense of attraction. There's also love, which is used in the sense of expectation.

You know that, you don't love me. You don't love me, what does it mean? That means I have an expectation that you should do certain things for me. And you're not doing it for me.

So there is love as attraction, there is love as expectation. Then there is also love as emotion. You know, we feel this person is so loving.

So I feel so much love in the presence of this person. But the first and third are related. But in the first case, we are attracted to that person.

And the other is, we feel love in their presence. You know, so, like say, in the case of, say, there are cricket stars or movie stars. There are their fans.

Now the fans love their hero. So they are attracted to that. Now, but those fans probably never interact with the heroes.

So they don't feel the emotion of love from them. So in a sense, attraction is what we feel towards that person. Then expectation is that we should feel something in their presence.

And emotion is when we feel something in their presence. And then beyond that, there is love, which is as a decision. Or love, we could say, as a cultivation.

Love as a cultivation, as a commitment. So without that attraction that is there, this attraction actually has two parts. The initial attraction, say, when a boy and a girl are attracted to each other, that is often infatuation.

So there is attraction, but often that is based on some physical characteristics, some personality traits. And there may be love at first sight. But the longevity of the relationship will depend not on whether there is love at first sight.

It will depend on what is there after many sights. What is there after many sights. So that initial attraction that is there, that's fine.

But that initial attraction, which is often infatuation, that will wane over a period of time. And it is not that person's fault. Yes, some people are more compatible with each other, some people are less compatible.

But when we are actually loving someone in this world, at a conscious or subconscious level, at a subconscious level, not a conscious level, at a subconscious level, we are seeking in them a substitute for Krishna. Our heart is meant to love Krishna, and we are expecting them to be a substitute for Krishna. And no one can be a substitute for Krishna.

So sooner or later, whoever we love, by love I mean the initial infatuation that is there, initial attraction that is there, that will after some time start waning. Because we will see that this person, who I thought was so wonderful, now I find, you know, this person does this, I don't like that. This person does this, I don't like that.

So at that time, people use the word fall in love. Why fall in love? Now say, if I slip and fall, now falling is involuntary. So just as we fall in love, it's almost involuntary.

People do all kinds of crazy things when they are attracted to each other. You know, when they climb up mountains, and they slip their arms, and they write and write, tattoo each other's names, and all sort of things they do. Now that is all the force of that initial attraction.

But that is largely involuntary. And just as people fall in love, they can also fall out of love. The same people who initially say, they fight against the world, you know, I can't live without him, I can't live without her.

You know, after some months when they are together, I can't live with you. I can't live without you because I can't live with you. Why? Because love builds such a tower of expectation for one's beloved, that nobody can actually live in that tower.

So sooner or later frustration comes up. But, so the people who fall in love, they will fall out of love. Unless that relationship, which started with some attraction, which is infatuation, that moves to the stage of cultivation.

In cultivation, what happens is, we make a decision to love someone. So love is, the cultivation means that, yes, this person has this good side, this person has this bad side. I don't like this side so much.

But I will focus on the good side. And I will develop a relationship with that. So every relationship, its stability and longevity will depend on whether the cultivation stage is reached or not.

If the cultivation stage is not reached, the attraction that is there, the attraction will fade. And the relationship will also break down. And that cultivation is, often needs to be expressed through action.

So that is the fifth sense of love. Action. Some people, they are not very expressive in their love.

But you know, their actions, they do a lot. They may not say, I love you, but then they are there when we need them. So their actions signify love.

So there is, I talked about love as attraction, love as expectation, love as emotion, love as cultivation, and love as action. So, now in bhakti, as we understand, as we are practicing bhakti, now, at our stage, we focus on love as cultivation. That's what Rupa Goswami, when he defines bhakti, he says, anukulyena krishnanu shilanam bhaktiruttama Shilanam.

Shilanam is cultivation. So, now the other senses of love are also valid. But they are not central.

That means, we also have some attraction towards Krishna. Sometimes we, you know, there are kirtans and we feel, oh, these kirtans are so nice. Sometimes we do japa and sometimes, you know, we just get so much, we feel so strong, so calm, so stable in the japa, we feel that this chanting should never end.

And the next day, we feel chanting never ends. What is happening? Sometimes we take out the bead from the bead bag. Has somebody changed from 108 to 1008 beads? It's not getting over.

So, you know, that attraction is sometimes there, sometimes not there. Similarly, the emotion. So, attraction means what we feel towards that person.

Emotion means what we feel in the presence of that person. They are related but slight difference on emphasis. Sometimes, you know, we just go to a temple and we feel calm, we feel peaceful.

Other times we go there and not feel anything. So that emotion may sometimes be there, may sometimes not be there. And there is love, which is expectation.

Now, if you love me, you should do this for me. And to a large extent, growing in love means that the relationship's thrust changes from expectation to contribution. Growing in love means, like a small child, when a baby is born, the baby, all that it does is cry.

And as soon as it cries, the mother comes and offers food, the mother changes the diapers, the parents do whatever is required. So, at that time, the child's only conception is expectation. I expect my mother should do this, my father should do this, others should do things for me.

And they do it. Now, as the child starts growing, as the child starts growing, then the child starts understanding. Initially, the child is newborn, child may not even understand.

There is this person, she is my mother and she loves me. The child gets the mother's breast and just suckles. This is a nice thing just coming over here.

And that's how it drinks it. But as it grows, oh, this is a mother. This mother loves me.

As the child grows, the child understands that, you know, it's not just I cry and I get things. I also am meant to do things. I'm meant to do this, I'm meant to do that.

And in that way, as the child grows, the child has codes at home, do this, don't do this. And as the child grows further, then what happens is that the child is expected to contribute. Child is expected to assist in the housework, assist in the earning, assist in the taking care of the home.

So the focus of the relationship shifts from expectation to contribution. And now, when we come to Krishna, now most people, they come to God when they are in trouble. So Krishna talks about four kinds of people who come to him.

Which are those four categories? The distressed, the inquisitive, those with knowledge, and authority, those who need wealth. And in Kali Yuga, four kinds of people come to Krishna. The distressed, the distressed, the distressed, and the distressed.

So most people, almost everyone, it's only when they are distressed, they go to God. So, not just distressed, when they are distressed, and they feel I can't solve this distress myself, then they go to God. So what happens is that initially when we go to Krishna, it's based on expectation.

Krishna has this problem, please solve this problem. And if Krishna solves the problem, then thank you, bye bye. So, the relationship is not really formed over there.

And that's why Krishna appreciates even people who occasionally come to him. In 7.16 he says Sukrutina. In 7.17 he says Udara.

They are pious people, they are large-hearted people, magnanimous, Prabhupada translates it. Ramanujacharya in his Bhagavata commentary, he says this, Udara means charitable. And he says, why does Krishna use the word charitable over here? Charitable means one who gives some contributions.

Somebody gives a big donation. This is a charitable person. These people are coming to Krishna because they have some problem and they want the problem to be solved.

And yet Krishna says, they are all charitable. So Ramanujacharya explains that actually, that Krishna is so eager for devotion, so eager for love. He's so eager that we come to him that for whatever reason if we offer him our devotion, he feels, oh, you're so good.

You have done such a great favor to me. You approached me, you chanted my name, you come to my temple, you worship me. You are Udara.

So Krishna has given us free will and he knows, we have free will, we can do whatever we want. So when we choose to come to him, he feels grateful. Udara, he says, you are so charitable.

So Krishna appreciates any way we come to him. At the same time, that is not, when love is primarily based on expectation, you know, I, that person should do this for me, then they love me. Otherwise they don't love me.

So that's how children, children want a toy. And the mother says, Ah, you don't love me. You know, the child starts crying.

You don't love me. So the parents have done so much for the child, but they just, they reduce the parent's love down to the expectation of that one toy. If that doesn't come, they feel, you don't love me.

Now, often, we also do something similar in our relationship with Krishna. Of course, the things which we need are not toys. You know, they are, we may feel they are very serious things which I need, you know.

This financial issue, this relational issue, this health issue, whatever. Yes, and they are serious. At the same time, if you consider from the perspective of eternity, we ought to speak of eternity, even in this life.

When we think of some issue that was troubling us 10 years ago, we may have so much anxiety. Now, if you think about it, we laugh at how much anxiety we were in. So, the issues that seem huge and disastrous for us right now, in the long run, we'll find they're not that big.

So, therefore, the, as devotees, even if we have this relationship with Krishna which is primarily based on expectation, that, you know, I worship Krishna and Krishna should do this for me. Then our relationship will never be steady. So, we need to go beyond this expectation.

But unfortunately, rather than going beyond expectations, we only grow in the expectation. Because when a child is there, he says, Mommy, I want this bike. And then the mother says, you know, we don't have money.

In the future, when we have money, we'll get it. Child doesn't like that answer. But child also understands, my parents have limitations.

What can they do? They can't provide it for me. They want to, but they can't provide. But with respect to Krishna, we think he's unlimited.

You know, if he wants, he can provide. And if he is not providing, that means he doesn't love me. That means he doesn't care for me.

So, what happens is that, that expectation-centered relationship is often more likely with Krishna than with others also. Because we think that Krishna is unlimited. Yes, Krishna is unlimited.

But when Krishna is unlimited, Krishna is not just unlimited in power, Krishna is also unlimited in intelligence. That means Krishna knows better than us what is best for us. So, when we have this expectation-centered relationship, you know, the terms of our relationship with Krishna are that Krishna, you know, I need this thing.

So, my intelligence and your power. So, I have this problem. This is how it should be solved.

But I can't solve it. So, you please do this, this, this, and solve it. Now, the relationship with Krishna doesn't work like that.

It's Krishna's power and Krishna's intelligence. Actually, everyone likes to serve God. Is it true? Everyone likes to serve God? Yes, even atheists like to serve God.

They like to serve God as an advisor. As an advisor. You know, atheists say, if God had existed, therefore God can't exist.

So, what are they doing? Basically, they are advising God, isn't it? And their non-existent God pops into existence to receive advice from them and after gratefully accepting their advice, pops back into non-existence. So, that is idea that the expectation-centered relationship when we have with Krishna, then it cannot be stable. So, there is love, as I said, there is attraction, there is emotion, there is expectation.

Beyond that, there is love as cultivation. So, the difference between a religious person, general religious person, and a sadhaka. So, there is a bhakta and a sadhaka.

There are many people from their past lives or from their parents, from their upbringing, they may have some bhakti, some attraction for Krishna. But sadhakas are those who have taken up a process for growing their bhakti. That is, they have taken up the process for cultivation.

And it is only when we come to this cultivation phase that we will move forward steadily. And I was at an interfaith program in Washington, D.C. It was a Christian Vaishnav interfaith. And there were many of these Christians very, in their own way, very deeply devoted.

And one of them, after the conference, he said that, you know, we often talk about how much God loves us. They say God gave up His only begotten son who died for our sake. So, we talk about how much God loves us.

But he was telling, after his interaction with the devotees, with all of us, he said, but you people, you focus on how to love God. Our focus is on how much God loves us. But your focus is on how to love God.

So, the process of sadhana is a way by which we, in a structured way, try to develop our love for God. Now, of course, Christians also, in their own way, they also have their own ways in which they practice their devotion. But the process of systematic sadhana, in our process of bhakti yoga, our focus is on how can I offer my love for Krishna? How can I cultivate my devotion for Krishna? So, in the process of cultivation, normally we use the word cultivate.

Traditionally, it was used in the sense of say, cultivating crops, cultivating a garden. So, how it is that there is a small seed that we sow, and we water it, and ensure that it grows nicely. Chaitanya Chaitanya Tamrath uses that same metaphor.

It is that when we hear and chant, that is like the water that nourishes the bhakti latha beach. So, in the process of bhakti yoga, the focus is on doing the things that will increase our attraction to Krishna. So, love is a cultivation in the process of sadhana bhakti, and the various activities that we do, chanting the holy names, worshipping the deities, hearing Krishna katha, they are all meant to nourish that bhakti latha beach, to cultivate it.

And as we cultivate it, our attraction to Krishna will increase. Now, in the Bhakti Samrath Sindhu, where this definition is given, of bhakti latha beach, of bhakti as anusheelanam, there, nine stages of bhakti are described. So, the stages are adau shraddha.

Prabhupada explains the shraddha to be like a favourable curiosity. It's not so much of a strong fit, it's a favourable curiosity. You know, what are these people doing? They seem to be nice people.

I just want to go and find out what they are doing. So, by shraddha, we come to sadhu sangh. Coming to the association of devotees.

What is the third stage? Adau shraddha, sadhu sangh, bhajana kriya. Bhajana kriya is the process where you start cultivation, start chanting, start practicing principles of bhakti yoga. Then what happens? Anartha nivritti.

Anartha, that means, that which has no value. Artha is value, anartha is that which has no value. So, the ultimate perspective, last anger, greed, these are anarthas, they don't have much value.

Or nivritti, they start disappearing from our heart by the steady practice of bhakti. And then, what is the fifth stage? Nishtha. So, nishtha is strong faith.

So, shraddha, at the stage of shraddha, the faith is like a banana tree. At the stage of nishtha, the faith is like a banyan tree. Banana tree can be easily shaken, uprooted also.

Banyan tree, the roots have gone so deep. Because we have seen the process work in our life. We have seen ourselves change.

We've seen ourselves becoming transformed. We've seen anger going down. We've seen envy going down.

We've seen selfish desires going down. We've seen it work. It's like somebody, some people, they may take some alternative therapy, some natural therapy or something like that.

And people may say, you know, these are, this kind of doctors, it's quacks. It's full of bogus. They're not, they're quacks.

Don't go to them. But, if we have taken the treatment and we have become cured, then a hundred people may say, that doctor is a quack. It's worked for me.

I'm cured. So, actually when we see the process of bhakti working in our lives, then our faith cannot be shaken. So, in Kaliyuga, there is myth.

Internet, there is so much criticism that comes from everywhere. If we just expose ourselves, it's like this, it's like that, our faith will get shaken. But, if our faith is based on our own purification, our own experience of the potency of bhakti, then what the world says doesn't matter.

That is the stage of nishtha. And, another word that is used for this is nishtita bhajanakriya. So, at the stage of bhajanakriya, it is anishtita.

It is not so steady. But, when anarthanurti happens, then it goes to nishtita bhajanakriya. Steady.

Then, after nishtha comes ruchi. At that time, you start getting taste. Now, this is so nice.

Now, does this mean there is no taste before that? Even now we experience taste. We do experience. But, at this stage, our taste, it comes, it goes.

But, at that stage, it's an incessant flow of taste. After that comes asakti. The difference between ruchi and asakti is in the focus.

In ruchi, we focus on the process and the taste that we get in the process. In asakti, we become attached to the object of the process. I just like to chant.

Some people, when they come for kirtans, they may chant Krishna's name in one kirtan and they go and chant somebody else's name in another kirtan. They say, it's nice music. I like it.

But then, as we move advanced, we are not just doing the process of kirtan. We are attracted to the person. Asakti.

And then there is bhava. Bhava is we start experiencing overwhelmingly deep spiritual emotions. And then bhava ultimately leads to prema.

Prema is love for Krishna. So, prema is like the fruit of the bhaktilata of the creeper of devotion. So here, in a sense, I talked about love as attraction.

There is love as attraction which can be an initial infatuation. But through the process of cultivation, that love becomes a deeper, stronger attraction. So, bhakti yoga is a process which takes us from wherever we are to the stage of prema.

Now, these nine stages are not are not necessarily like the are not necessarily they are sequential but they are not they are like the steps in a staircase. They are not like if it's a bridge, you have one pillar, one plank over here, the next plank, the third plank, fourth plank. It's not like that.

When I go on the fifth step, the elevation that has been provided by the four steps is already there. So, it is not that when I'm doing from shraddha, I go to sadhusang, then I go to bhajan kriya. When I do bhajan kriya, I don't give up sadhusang.

Sadhusang is still there. It's always there. So, when I come to nishtha, it is not that I give up bhajan kriya.

These steps are they are progressive, they are sequential but they are overlapping. They build on each other. And when we are doing this now, the longest and the toughest stage is the stage of anarthani vritti.

Anarthani vritti is a stage that can go for a long time. It can go for many lifetimes, it can go for a full lifetime, it can go for many years in a lifetime. And whatever Rupa Goswami has written in the Bhakti Rasamit Sindhu that has been elaborated by Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur in a book called And in that he talks further about the stages of anarthani vritti.

So, I will talk about those stages and then we can have question answers after that. So, he talks about various six stages within the process of anarthani vritti. His first is Utsahamayi.

Utsahamayi means there is actually tremendous, now the word Utsaha is enthusiasm. Mayi is full of. Now Utsahamayi means filled with enthusiasm.

That might seem to be positive. But he explains what Utsahamayi is the enthusiasm not for Krishna, it's enthusiasm to show off the process and the result of the process. You know, sometimes you know some people they follow some diet to lose weight.

And then, if they follow a diet to lose weight, they lose 1 kg, they lose 2 kg and they show everyone, you know, I lost 2 kgs. And then, yes, maybe I lost 2 kgs, but what is going to happen? The process has to be followed. But so, there whether I am following the diet so well or not is not the issue.

Whether I lost the weight or not, that is the issue. If I lost the weight, I show it to everyone. Some people, you know, they just live like total tyagis for 1 week, lose weight and then after that 6 months, they are full bhogis.

And then, all that weight comes back with further interest. So, in Utsahamayi, one is not so much interested in enthusiasm or following the process, one is very enthusiastic about showing off the results of the process. So, you know, initially when you start chanting Hare Krishna, we try to shock people or impress people by our strict practices, you know.

I chant 16 rounds. No meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex. We are not concerned whether we are helping other people come to Krishna or not.

Simply because you know how much I am doing. So, Utsahamayi is there, where our Utsaha is primarily to show off the process, show off the practice of the process and the results of the process. And then, after that, there is, when you find you know, hey, I lost weight but I gained weight again.

What is this? So then, we start sometimes practicing, sometimes not practicing. That is gana tarala. Gana tarala means sometimes serious practice, sometimes very frivolous practice, very apathetic.

So, you know, one day it's very serious. One day I'll wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning. And next day, 9 o'clock also I don't want to wake up.

Or one day I want to chant so many rounds, next day I feel, why am I chanting? So, that's gana tarala. So, what has happened is, because we were so eager for the results and the results don't come, then you start worrying, should I be practicing this? There is this very great sporadicity. Sometimes a lot of endeavor, sometimes very little endeavor.

Not much endeavor. And this is, gana tarala is in terms of the actions. Sometimes some people come to the temple almost every day.

For every program they are there and after that they don't come for 6 months. So, this is gana tarala. And then beyond gana tarala is actually, this is in terms of practice.

But then there is indecision. So, not only I stop practicing, I start wondering, should I be practicing this? Should I be giving this up? This indecision within. Because one starts having second thoughts.

Maybe this is not the thing to do. Maybe this is the thing to do. So, we all have our intention.

We may have the intention to practice bhakti. The test of determination is to is that what I want eventually is stronger than what I want presently. We all have certain feelings because I want this, I want this, I want this.

So, what I want eventually. So, eventually what do I want? Say, if a person is following their diet. Now, what I want eventually is, I want to have a healthy body.

But what I want presently is this food is so delicious, I want to eat it. So, determination means that what I want eventually is more important than what I want presently. So, when Vyudhavikalpa is there, at that time, we are too caught.

I want this, I want that. I'll do this, I'll do that. We go through a phase of indecision.

Indecision. And after going through this phase of indecision, then we understand, no, no, I have to do this. I want to practice this.

At that stage, there is Vishaya Sangraha. Vishaya Sangraha means we fight with the sense objects. Now, I will not do this.

We take up the fight. It is initially, we are thinking whether I should be fighting also or not. Undecided.

But at this stage, I am going to fight. Now, when I decide to fight against the sense objects, often this is good to have the determination to fight, but the determination has to be coupled with a proper process. That means, if there is a darkness in a room, if I start saying, you know, why is the darkness there? I am sleeping, I am falling, I am bumping into the wall, I am bumping into the surface, showcase or whatever is there.

Now, the way to remove the darkness is not by punching at the darkness, cursing the darkness, kicking the darkness. It is by turning on the light. Similarly, the point of bhakti is not to fight against the sense objects.

The point of bhakti is to connect with Krishna. But what has happened for us, when we are trying to resist temptations, we are trying to practice bhakti and we are distracted by the temptations. So then, what happens is we may go through a phase of aversion to the temptations.

Because of this I am falling off, because of this I am not able to do this. That aversion is also unhealthy. The Uddhavi Dakshina tells that don't be too attached, but don't be too averse also.

Just focus on the practice of bhakti. So when Vishaya Sanghara is there, we are fighting, but our focus is on the object to be given up. Our focus is not on Krishna.

And with that wrong focus it becomes very difficult to give up the sense objects. Bhakti is not a process of giving up. It is a process of taking up.

So we want to take up connection with Krishna. We want to take up service to Krishna. When we take up that service to Krishna, then automatically other things, giving up, it happens.

So beyond that then there is Vishaya Sanghara. The essential thing is not just to give up the things, it is to follow the practice of bhakti. So we try to follow the practice of bhakti.

Then we come to the story of Niyamakshama. Niyamakshama means that we feel, oh I cannot do this. You know, I want to fast on Ekadashi.

I want to chant attentively. I want to worship the deity nicely. But somehow I am not able to do it.

So here what has happened, the focus has shifted from giving up the sense of objects to connecting with Krishna. In both cases there is some inadequacy. But our focus has shifted.

Not so much on giving up the sense of objects, it is on focus on connecting with Krishna. I am not able to connect with Krishna. We feel that sense of helplessness.

We feel that sense of inadequacy. And then we go beyond that and we start practicing bhakti steadily. But we have not yet gone through Anarthani Bhakti because the six stages, Taranga Rangini.

Taranga Rangini means that at that time we start, so if Taranga means like waves, Rangini means to delight in that. The ocean of devotion, you want to go deep into it. But we just delight in the surface, in the waves of the ocean.

That means what? That means when we practice bhakti seriously, the practice of bhakti provides some benefits. Now when we start becoming, when we start practicing bhakti seriously, other devotees start respecting us. Other people start respecting us.

And that can be very titillating for the ego. We can get power, we can get prestige, we can get the, we can get so many fringe benefits from the practice of Krishna Bhakti. And we start delighting in that.

So I chant attentively, but when I'm chanting attentively, I'm looking. How many people are noticing that I'm chanting attentively? So, the attention is not really to Krishna. Attention is for show.

Now in Utsahamayi also it's similar. Utsahamayi is a very initial stage. Showing off the practice.

Here, I am practicing, but my focus is on the results of the practice. So, if I come to a temple, and I'm not thinking so much of bowing down to Krishna, I'm thinking who all are bowing down to me. So, the focus is on getting the prestige, getting the honor.

When that happens, then also we may get distracted from Krishna. But eventually we start understanding, yeah, I can get some honor, I can get some prestige, but it's not fulfilling. It's not fulfilling.

Now how long is that going to last? If I remember Krishna, then remembering Krishna, there is so much happiness. So, even if there is this little bit of Tarang Rangini, just keep practicing Bhakti. Gradually we start realizing, whatever the fame, the prestige I get from the practice, the pleasure from that is so little.

Before I was introduced to Krishna Bhakti, I had a desire to be a public speaker. I used to give talks. And then when I started giving talks, I was very conscious.

After the class, during the class, who all are appreciating my class, who all are sleeping in my class. And then, especially, who all appreciate me after the class. And then once, I gave a very good class.

At least I thought I gave a very good class. All the points were flowing very nicely, everything was well illustrated. And after that class, nobody appreciated me.

Not even a single person. So there, as I was feeling so dissatisfied, it just struck me that for the last two hours, when I was giving the class and before that when I was preparing for the class, I was so satisfied at that time. So, actually because when I was preparing the class and speaking the class, I was absorbed in Krishna.

But now, I am expecting other people to appreciate me and I am dissatisfied. So even if somebody comes and appreciates me, that's for a few moments. Why am I so caught about it? Why am I so worried about it? If people appreciate, that's fine.

But I am doing this for absorbing myself in Krishna. So gradually, like that, I still have that craving for fame. But just my experience is like this.

So I am understanding, this is not worth it. Whatever I get from that, that is little. The connection with Krishna, the absorption in Krishna, that will give me far more happiness than having others appreciate me.

So, the Prabhupada defines humility in a very beautiful way. In the 13th chapter, verses 8 to 12, he talks about humility means to not be anxious to have the satisfaction of being honoured by others. To not be anxious to have the satisfaction of being honoured by others.

That means, we may be honoured by others. And if we are honoured, sometimes as a service, we accept that honour. But we are not craving for that.

We are not delighting in that satisfaction. We are not expecting that satisfaction. We are not worried for that satisfaction.

So, when we, our focus is on Krishna, then we go, when we start, okay, these benefits will come. If they come, that's fine. Sometimes, if somebody appreciates us, that is also a sign that whatever service we are doing, that they are finding it valuable.

So, we can see it that way also. But the important thing is, that doesn't become the driving force for our service. Our driving force is to serve Krishna, to contribute to Krishna's cause.

If appreciation comes, that's wonderful. If it doesn't come, still we keep serving Krishna. So, Tarang Rangini, we go beyond that stage.

And this way, when we steadily practice Bhakti, once we go beyond the Tarang Rangini stage, Bhakti Samudra said, we come to a stage called Staibhav. Staibhav means steady emotion. That right now, it's unsteady.

It's like our emotions are like a sine wave. When the sine wave is at the peak, we feel, I have become a pure devotee now. I have become pure devotee.

Such taste I have in Krishna. But the sine wave goes down. What am I doing being a devotee? What is this? Just go up and down, up and down.

But as we keep practicing Bhakti, what happens is, the amplitude of the sine wave will go down. The sine wave will still be there, but its amplitude will go down. We won't get so elated when there are some positive spiritual experiences, nor will we feel so depressed when there are no spiritual experiences, when we feel down.

So, again, this will happen more and more when we shift our vision to Krishna. When we are chanting and we don't feel like chanting. When we are worshiping the deity, when we are going in front of the deity, then we feel no emotion.

At that time, what do we do? At that time, Krishna sees not just our feelings. He sees our feelings about our feelings. That means, I'm not feeling like chanting.

Then what do I do? As soon as I finish off the chanting and get it over with, then move on to the next thing. I say, Krishna, you are so merciful. You are manifesting as the holy name.

I want to serve you in your manifestation, but somehow I'm not getting taste. Please help me, Krishna. So, although that feeling of devotion is not there, but Krishna also sees our feelings about our feelings.

We have that intention. We are trying to verbalize that intention. We are trying to act on that intention.

Krishna sees that and Krishna appreciates that also. Because Krishna is seeing ultimately how much we are striving to practice bhakti. If we just keep striving, then gradually by that striving, we will become more and more purified.

While we are striving to practice bhakti, we can try to find out our particular uddhipan. Uddhipan is a spiritual stimulus. So, all of us have our own particular, say, sensual stimulus.

Somebody might be, as soon as they see news about cricket, they get, I want to watch this. Somebody might have, as soon as they see some new car, I want to get this. We all have our stimulus, certain objects.

As soon as we see them, we get agitated. So, they trigger desire within us. Just as we have our individual objects that trigger desire within us, material desires, worldly desires, similarly, in bhakti, you can find out what is it that triggers spiritual desire within us.

And that will be our uddhipan. For some of us, it may be kirtans. And not just generically kirtan.

There is a standard process of bhakti that we all practice, but we have to find out specifically what is it that connects, that triggers spiritual emotion within me. You find this particular devotee's this kirtan or this bhajan. And sometimes it's not one bhajan.

You might find one line from one bhajan. One line from one verse. We just repeat that and it just fills us with spiritual emotion.

We may remember one pastime of Krishna and that may attract our heart so much. We remember one interaction with some senior devotee, with our spiritual master or some other senior Vaishnava. That may inspire us so much.

So whatever is our particular uddhipan, we cherish that. And we make that as accessible as possible. Some of us are more intellectual.

We may like philosophical points. We may like quotes. Then keep that with us.

That will stimulate us. So when we want to cultivate, we want to cultivate, that means even when we don't feel the attraction, we still want to practice. So how do we do that? We don't need some impetus to move on.

So practicing our bhakti, our spiritual growth, it's our responsibility. It's not my spiritual master's responsibility. It is not my mentor's responsibility.

It's my responsibility. And my responsibility means that I need to find out how I can stay connected with Krishna. When we find out our uddhipan, my uddhipan will be different from your uddhipan.

So whenever I take darshan of the Deities, I like to recite verses. I recite the verses and then I think that the same Lord who is being described by this verse is present over here. I can connect nicely.

Once I gave a class, I said that we can recite verses and that way we can connect with Krishna nicely. So a couple of days later, one devotee came and told me, he says, Bro, how do you know? He told me we should recite verses. But you know, whenever I go in front of the Deities, I try to think of verses, that remembering that verses causes me so much tension that whatever bhakti is there, it goes away.

So for that devotee, the remembering verses may not be the uddhipan. For that devotee, maybe something else is the uddhipan. So we have to find out which uddhipan works for us.

And if we find that this spiritual civil life works for us, we can move forward steadily in bhakti. And we don't reduce our bhakti only to the uddhipan. We follow the standard process of bhakti.

But along with that, when we feel a little down in our bhakti, when we don't feel so inspired, then we connect with Krishna through the uddhipan. And thus we move onwards. So there is the standard process of bhakti, but within the standard process of bhakti, there is room for individuality and creativity.

I am an individual. And how I can best connect with Krishna, we can use our creativity. This is what I can connect with.

This is what I like. This is what it is through this magnetization that Krishna is making himself most accessible to me. And in this way, we show Krishna that we want to connect with him.

Then dadami buddhiyo gantam ye nama upayantite. He gives us the intelligence by which we can come to Him. So we will be able to guide it.

We will be guided. I can do this. I can do this.

I can move onwards in my life. So the process of bhakti, as we keep cultivating, the bhakti lataveej is growing. Sometimes we expect dramatic results.

You know that, if a mother, you know, feeds a glass of milk to the child. Yeah. There's a black Skoda in the driveway.

It's actually blocking a car. It's a black Skoda. So… So, we, the process of bhakti is evolutionary.

Every day that we are chanting, we are growing. It may appear as if nothing is happening. But every day that we are chanting, we are growing.

Every day that we are associating with devotees, every day we are worshipping the deities, every time we are doing this, we are moving closer to Krishna. But this growth is subtle. It's gradual.

Sometimes some small children are there. Their mothers tell them that they don't want to eat food, healthy food. If you eat this healthy food, then you'll become strong.

Then the child eats the food and then puts a tape around the biceps. I have not become strong. Now when we hear this, we laugh.

It doesn't work like that. You have to keep eating regularly. So like that, sometimes in our bhakti, we try to quantify too much.

I chanted so much. Why is that nothing happening? But, now for our growth of bhakti, change of desires is not such a reliable parameter. Change of values is a more reliable parameter.

Because the nature of the world is that there is so much contamination in Kaliyuga, that desires will just pop up within us. But, change of values means, what is our response to those desires? The desire comes, what is my response? Some of us, we initially, when we were materialistic, we would go out and search for stimuli so that we could trigger desire within us. So we would go out and search for desires, practically speaking.

But now when the desire has come, we say, I don't want this. Why is this coming? That change of value itself is an indicator that we have changed. There is one devotee who told me that twice in the temple hall, he forgot an expensive camera.

And he came back and the camera was still there. Three times, he forgot Mahaprasad in the temple hall. When he went back, it was not there.

So, this is change of values. What happens is, for us as devotees, if we look for change of desires, we feel, I am chanting everyday, same desire is coming again, same desire is coming again. But what is our value? We are looking forward to that desire or we are trying to avoid that desire.

That change of attitude indicates the change of value. And change of value itself is a sign that we are advancing. So, if we are going on a long car drive, sometimes a long straight road, we are just moving, moving.

Especially if we are moving in a plane, sitting next to the wings in a plane, the plane doesn't appear to be moving at all. It's like a straw that is going off. Not moving at all.

But actually it is moving at a huge speed. So, sometimes we feel, am I progressing in bhakti? So, if you feel like that, then you should look behind. Look behind to see how far we have come.

If you look at what we were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, you will see that there is a big difference. So, we have come a long way. We have practiced bhakti with some level of seriousness, sometimes serious, sometimes not serious.

But even with our not so serious practice of bhakti, Krishna has got us so far. That same Krishna who has been with us through the many lifetimes when we were not practicing bhakti at all. That same Krishna who has guided us for so many years, even through our distracted, half-hearted practice of bhakti.

That same Krishna will guide us ahead. If we just keep observing Him, He will take us to the ultimate destination. So, if we feel disheartened, then we look behind.

So, you see how far Krishna has brought us. If you become proud, I am such an advanced devotee, we look ahead. And we look ahead and we see, you know, what is the kind of ecstasy the Goswamis have? What is the kind of ecstasy that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has? We have a long way to go.

So, we get a lot of pride. But we can have that hope that Krishna has worked in our life already and He will keep working. He will take us forward.

So, from wherever we are, just keep practicing bhakti, keep cultivating the process of practicing bhakti, process of bhakti yoga and Krishna will elevate us towards Him. If by the end of our life we have come to a level where we love Krishna more than the world, even when we have worldly desires, we will not be completely free from those desires. But if we love Krishna more than the world, then Krishna will take us out of this world and He will take us to His abode.

That is the ultimate success of the process of bhakti wherein then we come to a world where there are no distractions. And when there are no distractions, then we can be completely absorbed in Krishna, eternally devoted to Him, eternally ecstatic in that devotion to Him. So, I'll summarize what I spoke today.

I spoke on understanding bhakti yoga as a science. That I talked initially about Krishna's all-attractiveness. How Krishna's balarupa is the vatsalya rasa ashraya.

His kamar rupa is the sakhya rasa ashraya and His kaishora rupa is His madhura rasa ashraya. But still, although Krishna manifests the particular rupa by arrangement of yoga maya which will attract that particular devotee. That's how Krishna is so all-attractive.

And for us, from the subject of love, from the object of love to the subject of love, we ourselves, our hearts are made in such a way that they cannot find rest. They remain restless till they rest in Krishna. And whatever love we get in this world, we see that as a spark, as a drop of Krishna's love for us.

And through the loving people, we see how wonderful Krishna's love is. And we feel drawn towards His love. And through the unloving, through the uncaring, we see that Krishna is actually pushing me through them towards Him.

And then when we talk about developing love for Krishna, we discussed about five senses of the word. People say, if I don't feel love for Krishna, why should I practice bhakti? No. Love is not just an emotion.

It's the five senses of the word love. Love as attraction. I'm in love with that person.

Love as expectation. You don't love me. Love as emotion, you know.

I feel so much love in the presence of that person. And there's love as cultivation. I see the bad side of a person.

I see the good side of a person. But then I'm committed to developing the relationship. Therefore, I choose to focus on the good side and cultivate a relationship.

And that is love as action. What do I do practically? So, for us, love as attraction, if it is there, we'll attract to the deities, we'll attract to the holy, that's fine. It's good.

It's auspicious. But that is not the primary thing. Love as emotion, sometimes we may go to temple and feel good, sometimes we may not feel good.

And that is not a steady practice, steady platform. Love as expectation, that can actually be a very unsteady platform. As a child, initially, it's simply expecting from the parents when the baby is born.

But as the child grows, the basis of the relationship changes from expectation to contribution. In the case of Krishna, we keep expecting because we think Krishna is unlimited. Our parents are limited, so they can't give, but Krishna should be able to give.

But we understand that Krishna is not just more powerful than us, he's wiser than us. Sometimes he may have some better plan for us, which we don't know. As a child, sometimes it reduces the parents' love to the expectation of a toy.

Sometimes we may reduce Krishna's love to the expectation of a particular thing. So that expectation-based relationship will be unsteady. Krishna is happy even with that relationship, but for it to be steady, we have to go to the phase of cultivation.

In any relationship, even if there is some initial attraction, people may fall in love, they'll fall out of love. Unless they go to the phase of cultivation. And in cultivation, Rupa Goswami has given a systematic nine-stage progression of how we move forward from the initial positive curiosity to the ultimate whole-hearted attraction.

The stages of Shraddha, Sadhu, Sangha, Bhajan, Kriya, Anartha, Nivrutti, Nishtha, Ruchi, Asakti, Bhava and Prem, they are progressive, but they are also overlapping, they build on each other. And I focused on the Anartha-Nivrutti stage especially, and discussed the six stages in that. So, initially, before Anartha-Nivrutti, our faith is like a banana tree, easily shaken.

After that, it is like a banyan tree. After we have experienced that a treatment works, no matter how much somebody criticizes, it doesn't matter. So like that, if we experience the potency of Bhakti, then we will be convinced to practice it.

And in Anartha-Nivrutti, we discussed initially, Utsahamai. We are more eager to show off the process and its results, rather than practice the process. Then after that, when we feel the results are not coming so easily, then Kantarla, should I practice, should I not practice? That is, there is, we sometimes practice, sometimes practice seriously, sometimes practice superficially.

Then after sometime, we start thinking, why am I practicing this also? We come to the level of Vyudha-Vikalpa. After that, no, no, I have to practice this. So then we start focusing on fighting against the sense objects, Vishaya-Sangraha.

But after that we understand, the whole basis is not, the main thing is not just to reject the sense objects. The main thing is to connect with Krishna. So let me follow the process for connecting with him.

But then we start feeling, hey, I can't chant so nicely, I can't do this. We feel that, Niyamakshima. And then when we start practicing nicely, then we start delighting in the fruits of that.

That is, Tarang-Rangini, where the honor that we get, the prestige that we get, we start delighting in that. But if we just keep practicing bhakti, over a period of time, Krishna gives us a realization. That honor, that little pleasure.

But absorption in Krishna, far greater satisfaction. Let me not give up this satisfaction, absorption in Krishna for this little thing. And then as we keep practicing bhakti, the growth in the process of bhakti, it is gradual.

But every single day's practice, we are growing. Like every day the child eats food, child's body is becoming stronger. So, rather than looking for change of desires, we can look for change of values.

So, the desires will still keep coming, because the world is a contaminated place today. But, do we welcome the desires or do we resist the desires? So, Krishna sees not just our feelings, He sees our feelings about our feelings. So, if we are resisting, no, Krishna, I don't want this.

I want to be devoted to you. And Krishna appreciates that. And if while practicing bhakti, we feel disheartened, then we can remember how far Krishna has brought us.

So, when we feel down, I talk about two things. One is remembering how far Krishna has brought us and becoming encouraged. Even without my whole-hearted practice, Krishna has brought me so far.

So, Krishna will take me all the way if I just keep moving forward. And secondly, I talk about uttipan. Finding out our specific spiritual stimulus which triggers our attraction towards Krishna and then cherishing that uttipan.

By this, if we keep practicing bhakti, then Krishna will arrange that by the end of our life, this is how we practice, we will be loving Him more than the world. And then, He will take us out of this world of temptation to His abode where we can delight in eternal love for Him. Thank you very much.

Hare Krishna. So, are there any questions or comments? Yes, Ram. Swamiji, we see that sometimes devotees come into Krishna consciousness.

They may even chant 16 rounds. But they go away. At what stage are they going away, generally? Is it anartha nivrtti stage? Or is it some other stage? How does that happen? So, if devotees go away, at what stage do they go away? Usually it is at some level of anartha nivrtti that they go away.

But ultimately we always have free will. So, the misuse of the free will is possible at any stage. Even if you say ruchi, asakti, bhava.

It is said that Jai Bharat was at a very advanced stage. Bharat Maharaj was at a very advanced stage. But even from there he got distracted.

Why? Because we always have the free will. But then we see his distraction was not like falling to a rajasic or tamasic temptation. He did not fall for some gross sense object.

He fell for a sattvic distraction. That was of compassion. His compassion for that dying, drowning deer was good.

But his notion that now I have to be the maintainer thereafter and to take responsibility for that and to let that distract him from bhakti, that was a mistake. But even at that stage, the temptation he fell for was also a big thing. Not a very cheap thing.

But in general, most people who go away, they go away at some level of anartha nivrtti. And especially when somebody goes away, sometimes their going away creates insecurity within us. If they have gone away, am I doing the right thing by practicing? And rather we should understand that if we have experienced the potency of Krishna bhakti, we keep practicing.

And if they have gone away, that is between them and Krishna. We don't have to be too judgmental about that. Sometimes what happens is when some devotee goes away, all the other devotees come together and they have a combined fault finding session.

He was not doing this properly. That's why he left. That way we pat each other on the back.

We are all good people. He was a bad guy. That's why he left.

It shouldn't be like that. Yes, we don't know what, who is going through. So, we just understand that it's between them and Krishna.

So, we should just be friendly with them. Unless they are blaspheming and criticizing, then we keep a distance. But otherwise, we keep the door open for them.

And whenever they want, they will come back to Krishna. So, if there is something to learn, we can learn it in a non-judgmental way. But otherwise, we should understand that we all go through different phases in our life and sometimes some people may go through a phase where practicing bhakti may be very difficult for them.

So, Krishna is still in their hearts and Krishna will bring them back, either in this life or in a future life. And we can pray for them, we can try to help them come back if we can. Does that answer your question? Okay.

We'll come back to you. I mean, the velocity of bhakti. Because you kind of said that even if you're in a plane, you're moving, right? But let's say, initially the gradient is very high and when you come to an earthen nirviti, you're kind of going very flat.

And at that point in time, you're not seeing the delta. So what do you do at that point in time? Because that can be very frustrating as well. Essentially, generally we are motivated by change.

So if your weight is going down and you see every week your weight is going down, you energize and you are motivated for that. Yeah. Okay.

So, initially, we see dramatic changes in our life that motivates us to practice bhakti. But gradually, the changes are not so… they're very subtle. You don't see them at all.

And what can motivate us in the practice of bhakti? Actually, as we start practicing bhakti, it is more, not so much the transformation within us, but the contribution that we can make to transforming others. That's what inspires us. It's like, say, if there's a doctor or there's a patient who has got a medicine and they have got reasonably healed.

Not fully healed, but reasonably healed. And then, now they become a part of the hospital. If there's an epidemic somewhere, they become part of the hospital.

And then they start to become part of the team which is distributing the medicines. And then when they see, you know, I give this medicine to this person, this person was so sick and they become healthy. Then we feel, yeah, this is good.

I'm doing something constructive. I'm doing something valuable. So for us, rather than the expectation of transformation, that's naturally there.

We want to be transformed. But our focus shifts to the contribution to others' transformation. And that's why, in general, it is always good to be, in some way, a part of outreach.

Because we say that there is pratyaksha, there is anumananda shabda, there is sensory perception, there is mental inference, and there is scriptural testimony. So we understand scriptural testimony is the most authoritative. But still, we do rely a lot on sense perception.

It's like, you know, if you come to a program, the program is about Krishna Katha. We see only four or five people. They start thinking, should I have come here? But if you see a big crowd, oh, maybe this is a good speaker.

I should have come. We do depend on sense perception. So like that, same way, if we are actually helping new people to come to Krishna, and we see the transformation happening in their lives, that inspires us to go on.

So rather than the expectation of our own transformation, we focus on the contribution to others' transformation. And that can help us to move on steadily. And over a period of time, we will see transformation.

Probably the transformation that we can see is that, not so much in terms of resisting desires, because the gross desires, you resisted them. Subtle desires, they will take time to overcome. But we can see also the transformation in terms of our capacity to endure problems.

You know, what Krishna Consciousness does is our connection with Krishna, our bhakti, it toughens us internally. The same problem which would have caused us to crumble ten years ago, now we are practicing bhakti, we are able to sustain it. Something which has just caused us to get a panic attack, now we are able to manage it.

We see the transformation in terms of our own capacity to manage our emotions better. So that way also we can see the process working in our life. Ultimately, the process of bhakti is more a matter of matter of choice than the matter of consequence.

If we are too focused on the consequence, then after somebody dies, how do we know where they went? How do we know whether they went back to Krishna or not? We can always have that doubt. But if we are practicing bhakti sincerely, then we will see that this is a far better life than the life when we are not practicing bhakti. So even if it takes me many lifetimes to go to Krishna, still, the life of bhakti is better than life without bhakti.

There are struggles. Struggles are there always in the material world. But in a materialistic life, the struggles are actually ultimately purposeless.

What is the point of it all? We lose everything. Not only after death. Sometimes we lose things before death also.

But for a devotee, the struggle is purposeful. We are moving closer towards Krishna. We are experiencing fulfillment in our life.

At least more than what we were experiencing earlier. We are able to contribute to others. So by looking at that contribution to others, by looking at our own increased capacity to face problems and by seeing that our life is now enriched with a purpose, we can motivate ourselves to move on even when we don't see transformation in terms of our anarthas going down.

Does that answer your question? Basically, you are saying that we become chainmakers. We start influencing others. That's true.

Yes. Thank you. Yes.

Any other matajis have questions? Yes, please. By loving Krishna, we love all the living entity. But sometimes we love Krishna but we don't live living on entity and other sometimes Vaishnav or sometimes other non-Vaishnav animals and all that sort of thing.

How is that? What stage of bhakti do you reach? So sometimes we love Krishna or devotees love Krishna but they don't love other devotees or they don't love people in general. They don't love all living beings. So at what stage will the love for Krishna transform into love for all living beings? Firstly, even for a very advanced devotee, there is a loving disposition towards everyone.

But that does not necessarily mean there is loving action towards everyone. Prabhupada gives an example that a devotee, a pure devotee will see that there is a soul like me even in a tiger's body. But he cannot go and embrace a tiger.

So, there is a loving disposition but there may not be loving action all the time. So there has to be there has to be some amount of differentiation about how best I can help this person. So there are some people who are very anti-devotional and the best way we can help them is simply by offering our prayers from a distance.

The more we go closer, the more they start criticizing, the more they start offending and just creates antipathy. So there has to be so when we say that a person who loves Krishna loves everyone so there is a difference in how they interact. They are kind to everyone but the kindness may not be the same way with everyone.

But it is a well taken point still that sometimes we become, we in the name of loving Krishna, we become unloving towards others. And that happens when we are either in the stage of that Utsahamayi or we are in the stage of Tarangarangini where we are seeking security and pride in our achievements in Bhakti. See our Bhakti practices are meant to make us more understanding towards others.

And just as I have my mind and senses which I am struggling they have their mind and senses and they are struggling with them. So even if they commit some mistakes even if they do some wrong activities they are also struggling with their mind and senses. I may not have that particular weakness which they have but I have my own weaknesses.

And just as for me battling with my weakness is difficult so for me giving up anger may be difficult for somebody else giving up cigarette smoking may be difficult. So I should be more understanding understanding that we all are battling with our mind and senses but sometimes unfortunately instead of becoming more understanding we become more judgmental. You are like this you are like that this person is like that then we become unloving we come off as very self righteous and we alienate people.

So if we have a proper understanding of Bhakti then both ways we understand that I am struggling with my mind and senses and the Krishna who is helping me in the struggling with my mind and senses says I need that Krishna these people also need that Krishna. So let me become an agent who gives Krishna to them and how do I give Krishna? By being kind by being gentle. Prabhupada when he was asked how can we know your disciples? Prabhupada said they are perfect gentlemen.

Perfect ladies and gentlemen. So actually Prabhupada could have said they always chant Hare Krishna they worship Krishna as a supreme personality that's true. Prabhupada here was talking about how people should appear to new people.

You know in our practice of Bhakti there is Siddhanta, there is Sadhana and there is Sadhacharya. Siddhanta is philosophical understanding Sadhana is our personal spiritual practice. Sadhacharya is our behavior.

So the world doesn't care about what somebody's Siddhanta is, what somebody's Sadhana is they care about the behavior. Siddhanta and Sadhana are important. But the Siddhanta and Sadhana that should translate into Sadhacharya.

That was what Prabhupada was stressing. That we should be perfect ladies and gentlemen. That means as devotees we should be loving towards others, kind towards others, courteous.

So once Prabhupada was in Boston or one of the temples and the devotees were staying on one side and there was an old woman staying on the other side. And then she was a little suspicious with young people who just look like hippies, wearing some strange dress and they told Prabhupada, there is an old woman staying there. Prabhupada just went there.

And Prabhupada spent half an hour, 45 minutes talking with her. And it was just like old people talk. How is your health? How is this? How is that? You know, how many children do you have? Just general talk.

And the devotee was thinking, now he will talk about Krishna. Now he will talk about Krishna. But he did not talk anything about Krishna.

And then when they were leaving, devotees asked Prabhupada. Now Prabhupada could see the devotees. They were a little bewildered.

Prabhupada just looked at them and said, old people sometimes feel lonely. So Prabhupada, what did he say? She was supposed to be feeling lonely. So he just went and talked with her.

So you know, this is simply human compassion. We want to be spiritually compassionate but that does not mean that the human virtue of sensitivity and respect is not there. It also should be there.

So it is for our practice. Sometimes what happens is the Maya is so kind that some people are judgmental and then we become judgmental about why you are so judgmental. You know.

So we are not judgmental. We are kind. We will be kind and gentle to others but we become judgmental.

You know, why are you like this? But that also is is like we are falling into the same trap in which they have fallen. So if some devotees we find they are not so caring, not so kind, then we just understand that different devotees come from different backgrounds. So some people may have been born and brought up in a very rough and tough environment.

Maybe their parents were not so loving. Maybe they had to go through a lot of issues in their life because of which expressing love is not their nature. So we we when we are practicing bhakti in the association of devotees not all devotees will be equally inspiring for us.

So what we need to do is in the devotee association find out which devotees inspire us and focus on associating with them. And with them, by gaining inspiration from them, we move on towards Krishna. So other devotees if somehow we find that they are they are a little too harsh or judgmental or whatever, we just respect them from a distance and we move on in our practice of bhakti.

Does this answer your question? Thank you Krishna. Yes. Please.

What does the soul feel? Like the emotions that we feel, is it the mind feeling or the soul feeling? What goes on between the mind and the soul? So the emotions that we feel presently is it the mind feeling the emotions or is it the soul feeling the emotions? Actually whatever is experienced the experiencer has to be conscious and it is only the soul that is conscious. So in that sense the experiencer is the soul. Always.

So that means that whatever it is that we experience. So if I experience pain and something hits my leg now it is the leg that is feeling the pain but it is not just the leg who is feeling the pain. It is I it is my consciousness the soul's consciousness is radiating through the body is going to the leg and then the pain is felt over there.

The stimulus of the pain is centered on the leg but the source of the consciousness through which the pain is experienced is in the soul. So everything is experienced by the soul. At the same time the soul's feelings although everything is experienced by the soul everything that we experience is not spiritual.

Because when you talk about spiritual that is based on at what level of reality is it being experienced or towards what level of reality is it taking us. In 13.22 in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says So he says the soul is situated in material nature and because of the desire to enjoy worldly objects what happens? associated with the mode of material nature and goes through good and bad in various species. So basically somebody might be sitting comfortably in their home but then they turn on their TV on that TV the cricket match is going on and then their favorite team starts losing and you know that match is going on thousands of kilometers away but you know they start gritting their teeth, they start punching they are getting irritated now what has happened they are experiencing that because the consciousness instead of being where they are has gone through the TV into somewhere else and based on that projection of consciousness into that cricket match they are experiencing misery now or they may experience happiness whatever it is so if somebody is watching a horror movie they completely get horrified this shape changing monster is going to devour me now devour me now so now actually they are completely safe so for them the experience is real but although they are in actually no danger but for them the experience at that time is real so similarly the soul is at one level Satchitananda in the sense that soul's nature is always to be joyful but although the soul's nature is Ananda the soul is not Anandi right now why because the consciousness is projected somewhere else if the soul is acting according to its nature the child is at home child's mother is there, brothers and sisters are there child is happy, I am happy but the child is there with the family but is not there with the family because the consciousness is projected somewhere else so as long as our consciousness is projected into the material world then we experience emotions based on wherever our consciousness is projected now the mother may be sitting in the same room or this child may have a brother who is sitting in the same room the brother is also watching but the brother is not so caught in the TV watching the TV, watching the effect on the brother you know what is this that's why you are getting so worked up about it so what is happening, that means it is how much we are emotionally invested in something where we are emotionally invested determines what kind of emotions we experience so the whole process of bhakti is meant to become emotionally invested in Krishna we are emotionally invested in various things at present we shift that emotional investment from the world to Krishna and then because Krishna is supremely joyful in connection with him we also start experiencing the joyfulness so right now the soul is experiencing the emotions but the soul is not experiencing its own pure spiritual emotions it is experiencing material emotions material pleasures and pains based on its consciousness being projected into the material realm does that answer the question? when does the soul actually experience them? ok so when does the soul experience spiritual happiness? the more the soul comes to the spiritual level of reality the more it starts experiencing so now at our stage when we say we participate in kirtans we hear some katha, we do some puja are we experiencing spiritual happiness are we experiencing material happiness now we should focus not so much on where the feeling is coming from more we can focus on where the feeling is taking me because we just get too much into the analysis say for example there is a class and in that class there is a joke and then when I hear the joke I think you know am I laughing for Krishna's pleasure or am I laughing for my own pleasure is this joke is this laughter, material pleasure or spiritual pleasure we don't have to bother we don't have to become so so hyper analytical this is what paralysis by analysis as we say so we just focus on where is this taking me so if we are in the ambit of devotional activities and if we are experiencing emotions in the ambit of devotional activities we can consider those emotions to be spiritual as taking us towards Krishna now if we make our bhakti practice dependent on the practice of those emotions then again we will be unsteady but while doing the practice of bhakti steadily sometimes we experience emotions that's wonderful because we see that that is Krishna giving us some foretaste some advanced taste of what we will experience eventually ok, thank you yes Pramod so just talking about the path make of primary rasas you just mentioned about how Krishna is all attractive in the three rasas our eternal role is to be the servant of the lord and when you look at Gopis they are also serving Krishna by reciprocating to his pleasures in the Madhuryas when we are looking at the Gopas they are serving Krishna in the Sakharas to increase his pleasure or to reciprocate his pleasure so why do we have a separate Vatsaras Vatsaras is incorporating all these rasas anyway and that's our eternal nature so there don't need to be a I don't know if you got completely wrong but why should there be a separate Vatsaras anyway so when Dasya permeates all the rasas all the other relationships have that mood of servitude then why is Dasya needed separately actually Krishna explains in 15th chapter that this world is like upside down banyan tree so that means whatever is present in this world is present in its pure form in the spiritual world so this means that actually we see in this world we all have different kinds of relationships you know we have our spouse we have our children, we have our parents we have our friends and we have servants so whatever is present in this world that is present in its pure form in the spiritual world so there are just increasing degrees of intimacy so Dasya Ras is also a part of the original flavor of the spiritual world where Krishna is the lord and he is served in different ways so in a sense that we could say that at one level these rasas are vertical so Sakya is above Dasya or Vatsala is above Sakya.

At another level they are also we could say horizontal in the sense that they are not only upwards but all of them are serving Krishna it is they are all the devotees in Dasya Ras they are satisfied completely because Krishna enriches them with pure spiritual ecstasy based on their rasa so it's just the spiritual world is the is the complete experience of Krishna at home with his loving associates so as a part of that home there is also servants so there are devotees who are in Dasya Ras and they are also fully enriched in the Dasya Ras does that answer your question? Thank you. Yes. You mentioned that the progress in bhakti should be noted more by change of values rather than change of desires and also I mean you mentioned Prabhupada said that you know devotees are perfect gentlemen that is their identification now many a times even within astronomy we have this crisis where on one side you are trying to build up values and you also see the lobbying, the networking various things going on and you feel like standing up for certain points which you think are right but for that sometimes I mean you need to even you know compromise your values you need to be more assertive more how is being assertive compromising your values it could be taken as you know like what do you say lacking in humility not humble things like that using cliched things too that you have done this therefore so you know how do you balance that how do you stand up for what you think is right and see it through with determination and keeping Krishna's teaching of speech don't agitate the mind of others you know speak truthful and beneficial so you know all these things I understand so when we are expected to develop Vaishnava values which include being sensitive and kind to others, truthful but then we also feel that certain things should be done in particular you want to stand up for a cause so how can we be assertive at the same time be sensitive and humble see humility is not about disrespecting oneself humility is not about disrespecting oneself it is centered on respecting something bigger than oneself that means that I have some bigger cause to live for so and I respect that cause, I want that cause to work out and that cause is bigger than me that I am not so infatuated, I am not so self-centered I am not filled with myself, I am filled with that cause but if now Srila Prabhupada he had humility but at the same time he had determination he was assertive he would establish philosophical points, he went, travelled around, did so much so first of all we often have some stereotypical notions of humility that we have to put aside humility doesn't mean letting others trample down upon us humility doesn't mean that just accepting that other opinions are right even when we feel or know that their opinion is not right, humility simply means that we don't let our ego interfere with our purpose so if my purpose is to get this done I won't let my ego come in the way even if I am dishonored, still I will do it or if I want to do this but I am getting some more honor in something else, so I will just let it go we don't let our ego interfere with our purpose, humility doesn't mean to not have a purpose at all we have a purpose so being assertive and being humble are in that sense not contradictory as long as we are centered on Krishna on the purpose of serving Krishna we can have both of them together beyond that what we can see is that as as far as being sensitive is concerned if we focus while communicating not so much on the person but on the issue not that you are wrong but rather this position I don't agree with because of this so basically sensitivity is not meant to not speak the truth sensitivity means simply we try to speak the truth in as less hurting a way as possible sometimes say the truth is going to hurt but just because the truth is going to hurt doesn't mean that we have a license to hurt people just like a surgeon, a surgery hurts but then responsible surgery means that we try to cause as less pain as possible so it is not that just because surgery is going to hurt, so I just let cause as much hurt as allowed, no we minimize the hurt so sensitivity means that we simply this thing is like this is going to spark off emotions in people so I have to be careful about how I speak we try to minimize the pain so minimizing the pain doesn't mean avoiding causing pain, sometimes surgery has to be done so sometimes there may be differences in devotees also sometimes we may have to point out how some particular course of action is wrong the important thing is that we don't make it as an attack on that person this idea this idea is I see this problem in this idea and therefore I don't support this so if you don't become if you don't make it as an attack on that person and be careful about addressing then we can be sensitive also so bhakti is not just about being devoted to Krishna it is being about devoted to Krishna in this world and this world means we have to do services in this world and if we have to stand up for a service we can do that but as devotees we can stand up without standing on other people we can do that that's what sensitivity is about does that answer your question even if you don't make it about the person it could be the person could take it as an attack on them it's inevitable that then we have to do something so see basically then so even if we don't attack that person if we find a problem with somebody's suggestions but they take it as an attack on that person attack on them what do we do see in that case in all of us in life we have to choose our battles there are many things wrong in the world and we can't set everything right we have to decide which battle I am going to fight and if some battle is important for me to fight then there are going to be some wounds in a battle so if I feel this particular thing is important in that process a particular relationship may get wounded but then this is important it has to be done we have to fight battles but sometimes we feel this person is going to feel so hurt by this and ok I feel this way but it's not like a cause I want to champion so let me just put it aside so then we just have to intelligently choose our battles we will not be able to do anything in this world without being criticized we will be criticized we will be attacked so bhakti is about developing a tender heart but along with the tender heart we need to put that tender heart in a thick skin we need a thick skin if we are not thick skinned we will just become shattered by so many things around us how do you develop a thick skin how do we develop a thick skin one not such a pleasant way is just by being beaten the skin thickens but another way is that we focus more on our service to Krishna than on what people are saying about us we wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about us if we knew how little people thought about us you know this person is saying like this about me this person is thinking like this about me but you know yes they may be thinking like that they may be speaking like that but how much time do they have we all are busy in our own lives they have their life to live we have our life to live I know somebody speaks for some time this has gone with their life so we focus on our purpose more I don't focus so much on other people and especially if we are if we are guided and sheltered by devotees some devotees who are like our guides who are our friends then then that attack that is happening from others criticism that is coming from others we are also getting love support and appreciation from others then we can shift our vision to that and then when we shift the vision to the love support kindness that we are seeing from others then we don't feel so much hurt by those words and then ultimately we know that we have to connect with Krishna even the greatest of devotees are cursed Prabhupada says in a lecture that even Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was criticized and Krishna himself when he was there he was criticized and Srila Prabhupada himself was criticized and you know with respect to Krishna we understand demons criticizing him but this is Srila Prabhupada often it was other brahmanas who criticized sometimes God brothers criticized so we will get criticism in this world it's not that that doesn't necessarily make the people who are criticizing us as bad people there is there can be a situation where people themselves may be good people but they may sometimes do bad things so we just move onwards in our life recognizing that this is a particular issue where there is going to be a conflict so if you want to stand for a particular issue then our absorption in that purpose itself will help us to develop the thick skin but if we are not absorbed in that purpose then we are too worried about what are people thinking what are people saying then we will not be able to do anything substantial Thank you Can I just say that I forgot to make the announcement that Prabhuji is an extremely prolific writer and the number of books he has in his head that will be churned in the next so many months and years is just amazing so one of the books that he has written we have got copies if somebody is interested to that's demystifying reincarnation Can I ask someone to get a copy we will get it just maybe yeah yeah if somebody is interested to buy that please take it Do you want to tell us about your other books because obviously they are available on Amazon we couldn't get copies So are there any other questions or this is the end of the class one question if you can get a copy of the book I will show this book also and then explain the other books also You said that the spiritual world has no physical location I was thinking about it all day because the books and everything depicts how the Vaikuntha Loka and Goloka and how Krishna is there so I am thinking because this is a reflection of those words when we have a particular I know this is an illusion but then there must be so when I said that the spiritual world has no physical location what does that mean actually that has to be carefully understood see when you say the spiritual world does not have physical location it does not mean that it does not have any location at all it does not mean that the spiritual world is simply formless it means that there is there is a form, there is a location but that is of a different kind it is of a different kind to give an example say there is a child who is watching a TV and in that TV the child is watching a video game where there is car racing going on in the car racing that is going on then the child is going from say one city to another city, one town to another town now that he is going from one town to another town but beyond that the child is himself staying in one town now that town is very different from what other towns have been depicted in the television this town is also real and those towns may also be actual places that really exist but they are at a different level of reality so when we say that the spiritual world does not have physical location does not mean that it does not have location or form it is just existing at a different level of reality like the real world a person is living in and the world that a person may be seeing in television that person is seeing a National Geographic program and the places they are seeing are also real but then in the TV as they are seeing they are not real over there, they exist somewhere else so the world is real, this world is real spiritual world is real but the spiritual world and the material world are not simply not existing at the same level of reality so they exist, spiritual world exists at a different level of reality but for the sake of depiction we depict them in geographical proximity this is here, this is here so just because they are not in geographical proximity does not mean that they don't have a, spiritual world does not have a reality it is a tangible reality but it is a different level of reality that's all it means okay it is real it's true, just like I said when you are experiencing something in real life and experiencing something in a movie both are true I mean if the movie is about some place in real life that is also true but this is of a different level of reality another example to explain this idea of different levels of reality is say the a child who is playing with cards has built a house now the child may have a house which is or which is which is on a say in a garden or something and next to that there is a real house now this house is also real that house is also real but you know this house is not really a house where somebody can stay it is just for play that house is also there both of them are real but it is like a different level so they are there but they are different level so or many examples, we have an example that there is money or currency notes which are there in a game they are also paper and relatively speaking within the game say a 100 pound note has more value than a 1 pound note but from the real perspective but the real 100 pound note is a different level entirely so the main point I was making is that we should not just see them as similar entirely but that doesn't mean that when I say they are dissimilar doesn't mean that this is false or that is false both of them are real but they are existing at different levels of reality so this is so this is demystifying reincarnation this is this book I have been working for last 10 years almost we have around 30 cases of past life memories, near death experiences explained with anticipating what objections critics have and resolving those objections the first part is scientific the second part is inter-religious where I talk about how within Christianity Islam, Judaism also there are verses which support your reincarnation and I talk about historically why or how these religions in their mainstream versions today are against reincarnation although their core texts are compatible and the last part is philosophical where I explain diagrammatically exactly how reincarnation happens and what is the how a reincarnation centered world view is actually profoundly empowering in our life journey there is also an appendix on ghosts, what they are how they haunt people, what exactly a ghost is it's also explained with a diagram so this is, I have around 20 other books and we have shipped them here but somehow shipment has not come here so my books are broadly in 4 categories some are books on Gita there are short reflections on the Gita, analyzing different verses in different ways, then there are books we deal with contemporary issues say there is corruption, there is violence, there is terrorism addressing those issues then there are some books on on practical application of bhakti, like say today's class was there, there are two books like that and then there is there are books which are directly there are books which deal with science and spirituality so on Amazon if you go you will see, if you search for Chetan Charan you will find those books, or here also the books will come probably, but this book is right now available, if any of you want it feel free to have it, thank you Hare Krishna, you had a question? Do you know we hear that bhakti is independent of material things yeah, but is there certain status in material world where bhakti is more likely to occur is there certain status or certain ok ok, good question so if bhakti is independent is there certain places, certain status in the material world where bhakti is more likely to occur yes definitely, actually there are two things, Vishwanath Chakra Thakur in the Madurai Kandambani says that bhakti doesn't depend on which mode we are in, what kind of situation we are in but people who are in sattva guna are more likely to associate with devotees they are more likely to go to places where they can get devotional impressions so somebody who because of culture say is likely to visit a temple they may associate with devotees and then they may move closer towards Krishna so in that sense if somebody is somebody somehow more exposed to devotees for whatever reason then bhakti is more likely now bhakti is not just specific cultural phenomena, it's a universal spiritual calling so it's not that say somebody in India alone can practice bhakti in the other theistic traditions also of the world there is some practice of bhakti and there are also people aspire to develop love for God so basically we understand that Krishna always gives the souls opportunity to come closer to him so some souls by their own past karma may have been born in places where the cultural is more conducive to bhakti or some people by their past karma may have developed mindsets where they themselves are more receptive to higher spiritual truths so then in both cases the likelihood of their taking to bhakti is more but when it is said bhakti is independent of material circumstances what it means is that if somebody is sattva guna the sattva guna can be it can be positive as a launching pad for bhakti at the same time people can become comfortable and complacent in sattva guna also you know I am living a good life why do I need to devote myself to it, I am just good as I am, so in that sense there is no pure blessing in the material world sometimes people who are in sattva guna they can become very proud of the knowledge that they have and they think that there is no need for anything more, so it's like say if somebody has to fly an airplane then we want to go from England to India to go to Vrindavan now if we are staying close to the airport to cover less distance, staying far away from the airport to cover less distance, somebody may be living or may be working in the airport itself, but they are comfortable working in the airport they never get on the plane and go out so like that now for a person if they decide to go and they are working in the airport for them to go is much easier but still they have to desire to go so similarly if somebody might be in sattva guna that means they are much closer to the airport, so bhakti is like transcendence the plane taking off from material consciousness so if we are in the mode of goodness the receptivity like receptivity is likely to be more but there can be complacence also when in that case they will not take off does that address your question or it was more specific yeah that's a great answer but I was wondering more there are studies to show that your health as your income increases your health increases so the people with less income have poorer health, people with higher income have more health so is there a certain threshold of income or certain threshold of material situation you need for your mind to be at ease for you to practice bhakti for example if there is a child like for example they can't focus on anything except oh I'm hungry so they can't be educated so could you argue that you need a certain level of material situation to actually practice bhakti in hindi it is generally said that khali peth ki bhajan nao hai gopala correct yeah yeah yeah so is there a certain threshold of material needs or comforts that need to be fulfilled before people can practice bhakti say the stomach is empty one cannot do bhajan yes it's true at one level but then we can see the converse there are so many people with filled stomachs how many of them are practicing bhakti so it's not necessary there are two different things over here see there is social welfare and there is spiritual welfare and both should be taken care of that means it's not that people should be materially deprived and we expect them to just practice spirituality not at all there should be arrangements for material welfare also made now in the traditional spiritual culture of India there are brahmanas and there are kshatriyas the brahmanas would minister to spiritual welfare and kshatriyas would minister to material welfare and both of them would go together now in today's world some states there are welfare organizations there are welfare states where they provide for citizens, some states are not like that so social welfare is a big need in today's world now there are some spiritual organizations who focus primarily on social welfare so social welfare is important spiritual welfare is also important and some organizations they start saying that social welfare itself is spiritual welfare that's not necessarily true yes social welfare is important feeding the body alone is not nourishing the soul, they are two different things so both can go on in parallel and as far that's from the social from say those who have some resources those who have some facilities to share some people feel inspired to do spiritual welfare some people feel inspired to do social welfare and number of people who are inspired to do spiritual welfare are often far lesser than number of people who are inspired to do social welfare so it is not necessary that all those who are doing spiritual welfare should also start doing social welfare because this is not many people doing this now this is from the people who are doing something sometimes people who are doing spiritual trying to do spiritual welfare they are saying what are you doing practically for people but actually changing people's consciousness is among the most practical things that we can do now before I was introduced to to bhakti practices when I was in college at that time I was involved in social welfare organization so I used to go to slums near my college and I used to teach students over there English, History, Mathematics something like that and I found that most of the most of the children they came from families where their fathers were alcoholics it was domestic violence and I started feeling that just by teaching them these subjects, how much am I really helping them so then at that time our organization diversified into de-addiction, into anti-alcohol campaigning also then there is a small village which we took up, one of my friend was more active in that he went to that village and we got practically all the people over there to give up alcohol, like a big success for our organization then one evening my friend came back from that village and he was looking shattered and he told me that recently there had been the local panchayat elections and one of the political candidates in order to get the votes from people had brought three truckloads of liquor and given free to everyone and not only the fathers but even the children had got drunk so then I started thinking I had a lot of faith in the power of education that by education we are opening doors for people which is true but I realized that we also need to provide people the self-control to walk through the open doors and it is not just the uneducated people who went to alcohol I was in another top engineering college in India and there was a senior of mine who had been a university dropper throughout and he had got the highest paying job in the history of our college and I had met him and he was a chain smoker and he got that job and within six months of working in that job he was diagnosed with lung cancer and in six more months he died so I realized that here there is self-destructive forces operating not just in the uneducated strata of society even in the highly educated strata so we may want to help others but are people in a capacity to receive help in many welfare states the state provides people money and people use money not to get food, clothing, shelter they use it to get drugs and go high get stoned so if people don't have basic level of self-mastery then offering them material help is like pouring water in a leaking bucket our intention is sincere but the bucket will never get filled so it is not that spiritual welfare needs to wait till material welfare is done sometimes the absence of spirituality is what prevents material welfare from actually having the desirable effect so when both go in parallel when we practice and share spirituality those people who are wealthy people who have resources when they ultimately understand I am a spiritual being and what I want to carry with me, the material things I will not carry but the good that I do the results of that I will carry so those who are wealthy they become inspired to become more charitable so among the haves, spirituality can infuse more charitable spirit and among the have-nots spiritual practices can help them to become more self-controlled now wherever people have practiced spirituality people have practiced bhakti they become free from bad habits many bad habits which people struggle to give up the practice of bhakti they are relatively much easier to give up so then people become more equipped to receive help so yes, a certain threshold of material well-being is important otherwise the mind is always filled with anxiety but that does not mean that sharing spirituality has to wait till people are in that threshold rather both can go in parallel we shouldn't be insensitive about material needs of people yes, material needs need to be taken care of at the same time many people are in a situation where even if we provide for them materially they will not be able to benefit from it there are many beggars not all, there are many beggars in India who refuse when we travel around we always take prasad with us, we take some food they refuse food many times they want money so that they can buy some cigarettes they can take a drink so there are people in need and if we have the capacity to help them we should help them but it is not that spiritual practices have to wait till one comes to the spiritual level till one comes to a particular level of material prosperity even if one is not there like that spiritual practices can help what should not be done is that people's material side should not be totally neglected or rejected we are in our present our existence is multilevel we are spiritual beings existing in material bodies so we need to help people in an all round way does it answer your question? yes I am quite happy to go on I was just wanting to on a very inspiring note that on Vinay's question about do we have a material threshold certainly age is not a threshold I just wanted to cite an example of this young devotee sitting in the front and I know I am going to embarrass him by talking about him he is year 11 and we talk about spiritual practice Prabhu would you tell us about his day of spirituality for us.