Appreciating Radhanatha Maharaj’s contributions towards helping devotees practice bhakti sustainably

[God-family meeting] Video:

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

So I'll speak today on the balancing of intensity and sustainability in bhakti. And I'll talk about this in terms of something about ISKCON history and what Swadhanath Maharaj has contributed to this. Let me start first with an incident from the Mahabharata which describes the context sensitivity of instructions.

Before the Kurukshetra war occurs, at that time Vidura and many other sages come and try to persuade Duryodhana and Dhritarashtra to desist from the destructive war. And at one time over there, when Vidura tells, Arjuna has single-handedly, in this very body, gone to heaven. He has single-handedly defeated all the Devatas at Khandav.

He has single-handedly defeated the demons who had defeated the gods while fighting the Nivatakavachas. So he says, there is no way you can fight and win against Arjuna. And Bhima is infuriated.

He speaks on and on about the prowess of the Pandavas. And at that time Dhritarashtra says that if it is the will of destiny that our dynasty be destroyed. That's what Vidura tells him that the whole dynasty will be destroyed if you don't stop this war.

If it is the will of destiny that our whole dynasty be destroyed, then who am I, a tiny mortal, to stop the will of almighty destiny? And at that time Vidura cuts through this rationalization. And rationalization means somehow we reason to try to prove something wrong to be right. So rationalize has two spellings.

Rationalize. R-A-T-I-O-N-A. L-I-Z-E.

Rationalize. It can also be rational lies. So when we use our rationality to not only speak lies to others but to make ourselves believe those lies.

So when Dhritarashtra is rationalizing like this, Vidura cuts through his rationalization and tells him, O king, it is the consequence of our actions that are determined by destiny. Not our actions themselves. It is the consequences of our actions that are determined by destiny.

If a student doesn't prepare for the exam and doesn't do well, the parents ask, why didn't you do well? By destiny. It is not your destiny. It is your irresponsibility.

It is the consequences of our actions that are determined by destiny. So he just cuts through his illusion and tells him it's your responsibility to stop Dhritarashtra. But somehow Dhritarashtra doesn't understand.

He doesn't listen. And the whole war gets over and Dhritarashtra is devastated. Because all his hundred sons are dead.

At that time, when he is despondent completely, Vyasadev comes to him. And Vyasadev tells him that, O king, do not lament. This war was the will of destiny.

And through this war, the destructive elements, the demonic elements on the earth have been removed. And you are simply, all the Kauravas and all of you are simply the puppet in the hands of destiny for this plan to be executed. Now we may say here, Vidura and Dhritarashtra are telling exactly the opposite things.

Because Vidura is telling, it is your responsibility, not destiny. And Dhritarashtra is saying, it is destiny. So are they contradicting each other? Not exactly.

Instruction has to serve a purpose. And in general, whenever we give an instruction to anyone, the purpose has to be that that person should choose a course of action that helps them come closer to Krishna. So when Dhritarashtra was complacent and was weak minded and he was letting his son go on the wrong course of action, at that time, Vidura's purpose was, take responsibility now.

So that was meant to make him take a dharmic course of action. But once that incident is over now, the war is over, the sons are dead. Now if he is constantly beating himself up, Oh, you know, why did this war happen? Why did my sons die? Why didn't I stop Dhritarashtra? Maybe I could have done to stop.

So now all this lamentation will get him nowhere. So now tell him, okay, that chapter in your life is over. Move onwards.

So the purpose of the instruction has to be seen along with the instruction itself. So before the incident, take responsibility. Because you can do something to change it.

After the incident, there is nothing you can do to change it. So now just see it as a will of destiny and move on in life. Now Krishna is so expert that sometimes he can bring good even out of the bad.

So once I gave a whole class analyzing various past times of the Bhagavatam. When we say Krishna is merciful or when Krishna has his plans by which everything happens. So if Krishna's plan is for good, then does Krishna's plan include our mistakes also? So if I commit a mistake, can I say my mistake is Krishna's plan? Or is my mistake my responsibility, my thoughtlessness? Well, yes, if I have made a mistake which I could have thought better and I could have avoided that.

My mistake is my mistake. But still Krishna's plan is not like a fixed action course. Krishna's plan is so dynamic that it can incorporate our mistakes into it.

And still manifest through that. So Krishna can bring good even out of the bad. So Draupadi in the Akshaya Patra, the past time, she somehow forgot to clean that pot fully.

And that's why a little shark was left on the pot. And Krishna used that little grain, little food to fill the stomachs of all the sages. So Krishna can bring good even out of the bad.

So when we see the past, okay, what has happened is the will of destiny. That is meant to, okay, the past is a closed chapter, move on in life. So when we understand the context of instructions, then we can understand why different instructions may be needed at different times.

Without the context, we may absolutize instructions, which will be counterproductive. If you see, there's one devotee who has compiled a series of papers, almost 25 instructions of Shri Prabhupada which are exactly opposite to each other. One devotee writes to Prabhupada and says, he's unmarried.

He says, Prabhupada, I'm in trouble by sex desire. Prabhupada says, it is my standard standing instruction to anyone, you're troubled by sex desire, get married. Then somebody else again writes to Prabhupada, I'm in trouble.

Prabhupada says, you're being troubled? Everyone is troubled, even Brahma is troubled. The only solution is tolerate. Which is the right course, these two are exactly opposite, isn't it? But they're not opposite.

So Prabhupada is a spiritual master who knows the level of the disciple. And then according to the level of the disciple, Prabhupada is giving an instruction. So the context is very important to make sense of any instruction.

And this context sensitivity is what we will be considering in understanding how ISKCON emerged at a particular time and what is required for the sustenance of the Krishna consciousness movement into the future generations. Srila Prabhupada came to America by Krishna's arrangement at an extremely unusual time. There was a time of immense material prosperity and immense material frustration.

The hippies, they grew up in a generation where all the things that the previous generations dreamt about, the great good American life, the great American dream, they already had that from their childhood. In the First World War, America actually lost the least and gained the most. Because they provided weapons to all the allied countries and very little of the war was fought on American territory.

So America became very prosperous after the First World War. And that prosperity was received by the children of the people who fought in the First World War. So by the 60s, the First World War ended in 1944, by the 60s these kids were in teenage.

And they had everything that previous generations had dreamt about and they are frustrated with it. There has to be something more in life. It was that time that Srila Prabhupada came and the mood at that time was to reject everything.

It is said about these hippies, they were rebels without a cause and rebels without a cause. This is rebelling, rebelling, rebelling. Rebel against economy, rebel against politics, rebel against education, rebel against family, rebel against everything.

And when Srila Prabhupada came to them and he spoke, he gave them philosophical reasons for their rebellion. Ok, what is wrong with the education, what is wrong with the society, what is wrong with the politics? That is based on the ignorant bodily conception of life. That life's ultimate goal is spiritual.

So they had already rejected everything. Prabhupada says in a lecture that the hippies had already done Sarva Dharmaan Parityaj. I taught them how to do Mam Ekam Sharanam Rajyam.

So, in this way, when Srila Prabhupada spoke in the west, he just, at that time in America, the hippies, they were just the receptive audience for Prabhupada's mood and vision. And many of them took up and they had rejected the world and at that time, practicing bhakti, becoming a devotee meant moving into the temple. Even if one got married, even if one was a householder, still they lived in the temple.

So, the idea of practicing bhakti was, the world out there is big bad material world filled with maya and the temple is the place where there is Krishna and we move into the temple. And anybody who did not move into the temple, they are considered not a very serious devotee, not even a devotee also. That's why for many generations, for quite a few years, when Indians initially started coming to the temples, the Americans thought that, the American followers of Prabhupada, they thought that these Indians, they are not devotees.

Because they are trying to preach to them, come on, move into the temple. Indians had worked very hard, come from India to America and they wanted to have their career. They also wanted to have dharma but they wanted to have their career.

So, for many years, these Indians were coming to the temple, coming to the temple, but the Americans, they did not pay much attention. They are not going to become devotees. Sri Ravindra Saroop Prabhu, one of Sri Prabhupada's senior disciples writes that, if these Indians who were coming to our temples regularly, if anybody had done a religious survey and asked them, which religious group do you belong to? They would have said Hare Krishna.

But if somebody had asked us, are these Indians your people? He said, no, they are not Hare Krishnas. So, it was a mismatch between what was the expectation of people living in the temple and what was the expectation of people who were outside and who were coming regularly. After Sri Prabhupada departed from the world and for a variety of reasons, the whole approach of living in the temple and rejecting the world, many devotees found it unsustainable.

One reason was it became financially itself unsustainable. The movement primarily was sustained by book distribution. But somehow the devotees, during Sri Prabhupada's times, they misunderstood or misapplied Prabhupada's instruction and they started using less than exemplary or ethical means to distribute books.

They tried to force people to give them something, tell them something about the book, which was not there in the book also. And then they tried to sell them the book. So, there was a reaction to that after some time.

And in fact, Tamal Krishna Maharaj, who led the Rahadamudra bus party, which distributed thousands and thousands of books, he at one time, eventually in the 1980s, early 1980s, he actually in the Dallas area, he told devotees to stop distributing books. Because distributing books itself, the book distributors were seen as symbols of these cultist Hare Krishnas who try to steal your money by unethical means. So, then even we were distributing a lot of books in airports and that couldn't be done because the airports, they cut off access for us.

Not just for us, in general for everyone. So, then at that time, the main source of income for the temples was books. Because in India, there is a culture of giving donations to the temples and through that temples are maintained.

But here, there was no culture like that. In fact, here in America also, there are several temples where there are western brahmacharya ashrams. And those brahmacharya ashrams, actually the congregation is not maintaining the ashram.

The temple is not maintaining the ashram. The brahmacharyas, they distribute books and distributing books, whatever lakshmi they get, by that they are maintaining themselves. So, that ethos of donations leading to maintain the temple, that didn't come up because among the hippies, there are very few people who are well educated with respectable jobs.

And Indians had not yet become so committed. So, then what to do? Many of the devotees found that they couldn't continue the temple. Because the temple didn't have service, the temple couldn't support them.

And they didn't have any degrees. So, then they had to go back into the world and take up some various, whatever kind of job they would get. So, the model of bhakti, bhakti means moving into the temple and practicing bhakti that way, that for many devotees, it was not very sustainable.

Now, this was not the only model of bhakti that Srila Prabhupada himself taught. If we see, when Srila Prabhupada was in India, he saw that Indians, even before Prabhupada went to America, Indians were not very interested in becoming serious followers. We know that Prabhupada has always preached for 40 years, but nobody became a very committed follower.

If you see, even after Prabhupada went back to India, not many people became committed followers. If you see, among the first generation leaders of our movement, how many of the leaders are Indians? And even those who are Indians, many of them were introduced in the West. And then they became devotees there and Prabhupada told them to go to India and speak.

So, there were many reasons for that. But more importantly, Prabhupada adapted to their needs. So, when Prabhupada came back with his Western followers to India, it was primarily the cultural nationalism of Indians which inspired them to come to his school.

Oh, you know, these Western people, they ruled us for so long. Now, our culture is being followed by them. So, Prabhupada saw that and Prabhupada was ready to engage them at that level.

So, he encouraged them to become life members. In fact, one devotee was telling that he was a personal servant of Prabhupada and he said, Prabhupada, in a day, when he was in India, he would sometimes go to the house, almost 10-12 people's houses. Morning he would finish the Bhagavatam class in the temple and just go.

One house stay for some time, take a little prasad, give a little talk, talk with a few people, move on to the next house, next house, next house. Initially, if our spiritual master comes to the city, wherever programs are there, we want to go and attend the programs. And the devotees also wanted to go to all the programs.

But soon they found that Prabhupada's pace was such that they couldn't keep it up. So, then eventually, they broke into two batches. You know, one batch would go with Prabhupada, say, after 9 o'clock he would start and they would go till around 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock.

And then this whole batch would come back tired. They were going to 2, 3, 4, 5 places. And then another batch would come and they would go from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock to another place.

So, Prabhupada went and Prabhupada going to their house was, many Indians have that pious instinct that sadhu should come to our house, bless our house with their feet. So, Prabhupada would do that and he would encourage them to become life members. So, now, life membership means at one level, no commitment.

The only commitment is they give some contribution and Prabhupada, the books come in their house and they also can come and stay in our temples. So, the idea was, Prabhupada provided them facilities to grow in their spiritual life. But Prabhupada did not insist on that.

There were Indians, there were Westerners who were initiated devotees and that was their connection of pride with ISKCON. That was their identity. You know, we are, I am an initiated person, this is my name.

I had gone to meet one wealthy person and you know when people write on their nameplates, this is MBBS, this PhD or LLB or whatever, this person on a nameplate had written, life member ISKCON. So, Prabhupada presented it so expertly that this is an international organization and you can become a life member of an international organization. So, like some people say, you know, member of Rotary Club, Lions Club, like that, life member ISKCON.

So, Prabhupada presented in such a way that people felt pride in that connection with our movement. So, we see Prabhupada, in one sense, offering two very distinct visions of connection with Krishna. One is where you move into the temple and become full time committed devotees, the grahasthas or brahmacharis, whatever.

The other is, you stay where you are, no commitment, just have a connection, positive connection with Krishna. And by this, Prabhupada created a lot of positive vibes for the Krishna consciousness movement in India. And then, it was in the 80s that devotees started evolving the concept of congregation preaching.

Congregation preaching means that people stay at their houses and every week we have a program at their place. And they can come to the temple, they will come to the temple once a week, but the whole idea is they are never expected to move into the temple. That's not the primary expectation.

You stay where you are and you practice bhakti and grow. And that's how the preaching started blossoming. And if you see during Prabhupada's times, ISKCON had very few Indians actually.

The lecture of Prabhupada in 1971, I think, or maybe 1970, Prabhupada says, this movement is from India and I am the only Indian in this movement. So, but now we see that things have changed and India is the powerhouse of ISKCON. In terms of the number of temples, the number of devotees, the number of books distributed.

So, things changed. Because when devotees went to India and started preaching, initially Prabhupada's disciples, even in India they had that model. You know, everything is illusion, just join the temples.

But Indians were not ready to do that. And Prabhupada did not expect the life members to do that. Just be with them.

And then devotees gradually evolved the concept of congregation preaching. And then devotees became committed. Now, for many Indians, dharma is an important part of their life.

There are many Indians who are bhaktas, but not sadhakas. They have some bhakti for Krishna, they will do some aarti, some puja. And they have some, we could say some sincere emotion for Krishna.

But they are not practicing sadhana bhakti. So, in ISKCON, that's why if a new person has come, we say bhakta, so and so. We use that name.

Actually, at one level, bhakta is a very exalted state. Who is a bhakta among us? But the idea is, somebody is a bhakta, but that is just now becoming a sadhaka. Sadhaka means one starts practicing the disciplines which will help us to intensify our devotion.

So, many people, they have become sadhakas. Thousands and thousands of people in India have grown towards becoming sadhakas. So, now, when some of the devotees, say, they were living in America, they were living in the temples, and then the temple just couldn't sustain them because book distribution collapsed.

Devotees tried various things. Devotees tried to sell incense, sell paintings, sell various things and try to maintain, but it was difficult. Sometimes, in some temples, you have many, many devotees.

And they were left, at that time, some of the devotees felt let down. We left everything for Krishna and then we are not being taken care of. And somehow, at that time, some of the leaders also, they didn't have, because they were also, we can't blame anyone, they were very new.

The leaders of the movement also were 35-40 years old, 30-35 years old. So, they told, don't worry, Krishna will protect you. Krishna will maintain you.

And this created a lot of bitterness. So, Radhanath Maharaj once was telling in a Ishta Goshti meeting, he says, at one level, yes, we can give devotees the faith that Krishna will protect them, but at another level, Krishna protects His devotees through His devotees. Krishna protects His devotees through His devotees.

That means, he said, it is for us, as devotees, to assist each other and support each other. So, if a devotee is sick, it is not that, you know, just remember Krishna, Krishna will protect you. If the devotee is sick, we should see that this is an opportunity for us to do Vaishnava Seva.

It is an opportunity for me to help this devotee. So, that ethos of serving devotees, of helping devotees who are in need and creating systems by which devotees can be helped, so that they can sustainably practice bhakti. So, that is what Radhanath Maharaj focused on.

He was preaching, he was first in Vrindavan where he was a pujari, then he started preaching in America, going to colleges, he was significantly successful. But then he was told to go to India. And in India, he started developing the community.

He has given several talks on the consular system. One of the consistent themes he speaks in the consular system is that we need to provide devotees whatever they need so that they can practice bhakti lifelong. So, the devotees need some emotional support, devotees need some health care, devotees need some, say, marriage help, getting help in getting married, devotees need some help in, say, some guidance in life.

So, there should be someone who provides them. There should be some systems who provide them that. And for that, various systems were created.

I was once with His Holiness Jayapataka Maharaj and he was giving his Ishta Gosht. He says that, actually, if I look at my day, when people come to meet me, he said, you know, people come, if I take a list of what all are the topics people talk with me about. He said that, you know, people talk about their family problems, financial problems, health problems, management problems.

He said, philosophical questions is something less than 1% I talk during the day. I'm a spiritual master, but that's not what people come to talk with me about most of the time. So, why is this? Because, at that time at least, these are needs which devotees have.

If I have some family issues, I have some health issues, I need someone to talk with. And if there is no system to take care of it, then everything is expected to be taken care of by the spiritual master. And then, it is very difficult for the spiritual master also to take care of all these things.

So, then, for the sustainable practice of bhakti, there is intensity in bhakti, you know, I want to practice, practice very seriously, which is very good. But then, we have to see at what level I can practice bhakti intensely. Say, we can fast nirjal, maybe once a year on Pandav Nirjal Ekadashi.

But if I told to fast nirjal throughout the year, it will be impossible for us. We can't do it. Or, even if I told, we can fast on Ekadashi without grains once a fortnight.

We are told lifelong to live without grains. It will be difficult. So, there is, each one of us has to find how we can practice bhakti sustainably.

Bhakti, there is one Prabhupada disciple, he was telling that, when Prabhupada was there, at that time, the mood was such that, you know, within a few days, we are going to take, the Hare Krishna's are going to take over the world. And in a few days after that, we are all going to become pure devotees. So, they just expected such high things.

And the movement was also spreading very rapidly. And at least in the initial days of bhakti, the transformation that happened was also dramatic. We have some bad habits, just go away.

So, it is dramatic transformation, dramatic expansion of the movement. So, the expectation was that things will go on dramatically changing like this. But over a period of years, the changes do keep happening, but they become a little more subtle.

They are inside, the purification becomes more gradual. It's not so immediately visible. So, if we are depending on these dramatic changes, either in our heart or dramatic changes in the outer world, as the inspiration for our practice of bhakti, then we may not get that.

So, we need to have proper systems by which we can have motivation to sustainably practice bhakti. In the Upadesha Amrit, Nectar of Instruction, Prabhupada says, that the Krishna consciousness movement is sustained by the sixfold loving exchanges among devotees. He speaks in the Dati Pratigrahanati Purport, Guhyamakhyachi Puchchati, that the sixfold loving exchange is giving gifts, taking gifts, speaking our heart, hearing others speak their heart, offering prasad, taking prasad.

This is the way the Krishna consciousness movement is nourished. That means, once we understand that, yes, Krishna is my goal, His worldly entanglement, I have to give them. But, Krishna is a very long way away.

And, I have to live my whole life, till I get to Krishna. Many times, if people are facing problems, and somebody is having a lot of trouble, and they come to a preacher, I have this problem. Yes, you know, this world is dukkhal and you will have problems only.

Well, that is true at a philosophical level, but at a practical level, that is not the way the culture was. You know, Arjuna is crying in tears at the start of the Bhagavad Gita. And, Krishna speaks the Bhagavad Gita to console him.

By the end of the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna is composed. So, Krishna doesn't tell Arjuna, oh, my message is that this world is dukkhal and you already realized it. So, no need for me to speak any message.

This world is dukkhal, but we have to help people find a way to live as well as possible in this world and to move out of this world. The moving out of the world to attain Krishna's abode is the ultimate goal, which is extremely important, but in the intermediate, how are we to live? So, creating systems for that was extremely important. So, the counselor system is, basically, whatever name we have, counselor, mentor, guide, whatever we call it, the point is, it's a facility by which there can be six-fold loving exchanges among devotees.

Because we have a big devotee community, sometimes we talk about souls who are lost in the material world and we get them to Krishna. Yes, that is true, but sometimes there can be souls lost in Krishna's movement also. Especially if we go to dhams and we are not just go on ourselves.

As in, there are so many people who have so many strange ideas. They are in the dham, but actually their consciousness is just gone here, there, everywhere. So, even in the association of devotees, we need some direction, we need some purpose, we need some urgency.

So, that has to be provided as much as possible through structure. And, if we consider that famous metaphor of the drop of water going towards the ocean. Which is Upanishadic metaphor, which is used by the impersonals to talk about how we merge.

But the Vaishnavas use it to talk about how the consciousness flows towards Krishna. So, now, all of us have some spiritual urge. We all want to grow spiritually.

But, for most of us, our spiritual urge is like a small trigger. It is not like a powerful river. So, one trickle, if it is on the top, one small trickle is there, it is on top of a mountain.

For it to reach the ocean is very difficult. But if many such trickles come together, then they become a tributary. When tributaries come together, they become a river.

And that river moves towards the ocean. So, like that, the association of devotees and a forum where devotees can associate nicely with each other, that is what helps the trickles of water to become a river. And then they can move towards Krishna collectively.

So, this, whether it is as a council system or whether it is, say, a hospital, where the purpose is, there are many devotees who have become doctors. Or many doctors have become devotees, rather. So, what do they do? Either they have their own independent practices or they work in a hospital with somebody else.

But if they come together, then their material life and their spiritual life can be harmonized. That we have to anyway do our jobs. But if we could do the jobs in a setting where we can have association of devotees, then it becomes, the material and the spiritual becomes harmonized.

The purpose of Varanashram is not so much to divide society into Varanasi, Brahman, Kshetriya, Vaishya, Shudra. The purpose, that division also is meant for a purpose. That purpose is to help the material life become as harmonious as possible with the spiritual life.

If somebody is Brahminical orientation, then give them a Brahmana engagement in the service of Krishna. So, basically, create systems by which devotees can move towards Krishna systematically. So, similarly, there was the marriage bureau or the marriage board, whatever again be the word.

Nowadays, there are so many portals which are available for devotees who want to, who want to pursue the Grahastha Ashram. But earlier it was not there. Most devotees, how did they get married? Initially, Prabhupada did that and Prabhupada was a pure devotee.

You just tell, this boy, this devotee, this boy, two of you get married. And he expected at one level that the system of arranged marriage was the elders tell, and now you get married to this and they come together and they live. But he found that for the western people, it was not like that.

And Prabhupada at least, he knew devotees, some disposition, he would talk about it. But some of them, then some of Prabhupada's disciples had to follow that. Some temple presence said, you get married to this.

And they would get married and just couldn't sustain it. Not anyone's fault, but they couldn't sustain it. So, there has to be a system created by which people can have this particular need fulfilled in a proper way.

So, through this, the whole practice of Bhakti can be done in a sustainable way. That is, we all need to go towards Krishna, which is our life's ultimate goal. But while going there, there are various needs that we have.

And those needs cannot be denied or rejected. At the same time, to fulfill those needs, we don't have to go away from Krishna. So, somehow we could create a system by which those needs are fulfilled within the devotee community.

Then, we can move towards Krishna more easily. So, that is the whole idea of providing for practicing Bhakti sustainably. And that vision has caught up in various ways by which devotees can move towards Krishna steadily.

Now, after Maharaj was there for almost 10-15 years in India, he started coming more intensely in 1986-87. That time he started saying more. Then he spent a lot of time personally being with devotees, spending time with devotees.

And at a personal level, Maharaj is always very sweet and very humorous. So, this is what devotee was telling me, that in the early days when they would have programs, there were only 10-15 people, 1987-1988. So, Maharaj would meet with everyone after the program.

And all the Prabhus, Maharaj would meet them and give them a nice big hug. So, once a couple came for the program for the first time. They were new, they didn't know anything.

So, they saw everybody coming in line to meet Maharaj. So, then the Prabhu, he came and met Maharaj and Maharaj hugged him. And his wife didn't know anything, she also came forward to him.

So, Maharaj just gently folded his hands, Mataji, I am not so advanced. So, Maharaj at a personal level is very intimate. I was doing some proof reading for Maharaj for one of his books, Journey Home, actually.

Journey Within also I did some work. Journey Within was actually at that time called Yoga of Love, then they changed the name. Because Journey Home became a brand name to continue that theme.

So, then we did the whole book. I was working for almost 15-20 days, first when I was in Pune. And I came to Mumbai and stayed there with Maharaj for 10-15 days, for one week almost and did all the editing.

So, I had given many suggestions to Maharaj. Maybe you could add this example or this or that. Maharaj was very open about that.

So, when I gave all the suggestions, I sent by mail. So, when I came to Mumbai, I met Maharaj afterwards. Maharaj told me, your suggestions are very good.

Now, incorporating your suggestions is your karma. He said, take it all and implement it and see whether it is done properly or not. So, then I did that and then we finished everything.

And then, one night Maharaj told me that it was around 10 o'clock, that tomorrow I am planning to send this book to the publisher. So, before that, can you do one final proofreading? That is a 300-page book. He said, that is 10 o'clock at night.

I said, okay Maharaj, I will do it. So, that whole night I was awake. I was trying to do proofreading.

And while I was doing proofreading at night, I just fell asleep and crashed against my computer screen and cracked my computer screen. But somehow I managed to do that the next morning. And the next morning, Maharaj was in a very cheerful mood.

Maharaj told me that now I am doing proofreading, we don't want to touch my file. So, you make all the changes in your file and tell me and I will incorporate all the changes. So, at one point, Maharaj said that… Maharaj was spelling Bhakti Siddhanta.

So, there was Bhakti Siddhanta, there was a double D over there. So, there was one letter that was missing over there. Bhakti Siddhanta.

So, B-H-A-K-T-I-S-I-D-D-H-A-N-T. So, there is only one D over there. So, I told Maharaj, we have to put one D over here.

Excellent. You passed the test. I just looked at Maharaj and said, what do you mean Maharaj? He says, I had left out that D to check whether you will find it or not.

No, I didn't know. I was just looking at Maharaj. Maharaj said, don't worry.

I was just joking. Till this day, I don't know whether it was joking or it was intentional. So, Maharaj at a personal level is very warm, very loving, very jolly.

At the same time, Historically, Maharaj felt the need to fulfil Prabhupada's instruction or Prabhupada's wish to spread Krishna Consciousness, revive Krishna Consciousness in America. In America, the ethos changed completely. The counterculture was a phase which just got over.

And after that, our movements widespread also went down. So, there is… Now, ISKCON is quite strong in India, in America also, but it is mostly filled with Indians. So, some devotees say that there is the Hinduization of ISKCON or Indianization of ISKCON.

Some devotees say it's not even Indianization, it's Teluguization of ISKCON. So, whatever it is, anybody who is coming to Krishna's movement, that is wonderful. But at the same time, there is an important… Prabhupada wanted that whichever country we are in, the people of that country also become devotees.

So, then around 2004-2005, when Bhaktivedit Maharaj pushed Maharaj to write his own story and he wrote that book eventually. From that time, Maharaj saw that book as a way of reaching out to western people. In the western world, there is now a whole arise of very great skepticism.

In the pre-modern times, people believed in scripture, whether Bible or Vedas or Quran or whatever. In the modern times, science replaced scripture and science became the authority. If science says something, it must be right.

In the post-modern times, people lost faith even in science. Because there are nuclear weapons which were developed and there are many scientific theories which were considered very bedrock. Truths were proven to be questionable.

So, now people do use technology a lot. But they don't see science as a source of final knowledge. They use the products of science as technology but there is no uncritical faith in science also.

So, then that doesn't mean people have developed faith in scripture. The post-modern age means there is neither faith in science nor faith in scripture. There is then what? There is faith only in experience.

That means if something feels good to me, I will do it. If something works for you, tell me. If you say this is the truth, no, I am not interested in that.

Broadly, outreach can be in three ways. It can be prescriptive, normative and descriptive. Prescriptive means like a doctor gives a prescription.

Do this, don't do this. So, that in today's world, it doesn't work at all. Now, who are you to tell me this? Normative means this is right, this is wrong.

On what basis? According to your scriptures, but why should I believe your scriptures? So, some other religious scriptures say something different. So, descriptive means this is what I do and this is why I do it. So, this approach works because people want to see something that works.

Nobody can live completely without faith. But they don't want to put faith in any authority. So, example is given for this post-modern world.

If there is a middle-aged couple who has been married for about 25 years and they are giving some guidance to some young couples who are about to get married or just newly married. So, now if they say we have been happily married for the last 25 years and the young couples will say, yeah, they will be eager to hear. So, we would like to share how we made it work.

Yes, they want to hear. But if the same couple say that, no, we have been married for the last 25 years and anybody who divorces, they are going to go to hell. Then the post-modern people will say, you go to hell first.

We don't care for you. So, anything that is presented as a dogma, this is what you have to do, this is the right thing, that doesn't work. So, when I read the Journey Home for the first time, Maharaj knew I also used to write, I have published B.T.G, I have written a few books.

So, Maharaj asked different devotees for their feedback about it. What do you think about the book? So, I told Maharaj, Maharaj, all the stories are very adventurous. What I like about the book the most is the tone.

See, in this book, you are not writing as a teacher speaking from the dasas. You are writing as a friend sharing his experiences. So, Maharaj said, yes, this is the tone that you need for western audiences.

And he said that India is also becoming westernized if you learn to write this in this tone, then you can reach both western and westernized Indian audiences. So, that time I started exploring what is this. But if you see the whole Journey Home is not prescriptive or normative, it is descriptive.

So, through the descriptive tone, many many people earlier who thought that Hare Krishnas are very narrow-minded, sectarian, self-righteous kind of people. So, Maharaj told me that Journey Home is my way of glorifying Shila Prabhupada. He said many of my God brothers have written books about Shila Prabhupada.

The full book is devoted to their experiences with Prabhupada. And he said his way is that, he said that, now I am paraphrasing in my words what Maharaj said, that those glorifications are mostly for insiders or people who want to become insiders. How, oh, I met Prabhupada, this was so wonderful, this was so wonderful, this was so wonderful.

So, people who are already followers of Prabhupada or who are considering becoming followers of Prabhupada, for them to hear about Prabhupada's glory is wonderful. But for people who are just broadly spiritual, but they are not interested in necessarily following Prabhupada, so then for them, in a subtle but very powerful way, what he shows is, okay, if they read Maharaj's book, he is a serious spiritual seeker, he is ready to give up the whole world in search of God. But then he goes to all these teachers.

Now, many of the teachers whom Maharaj has talked about in his books, in a mundane sense, some of them may be much more well-known than Prabhupada's. But Maharaj went to all those teachers, but then eventually surrendered to Prabhupada. That means, he found Prabhupada more inspiring than all of them.

So, this is his way of glorifying Prabhupada in a non-exclusivist way. Exclusivist way means, this is right and everything else is wrong. But non-exclusivist means, yes, they are all good, but I found this the best.

And this way is the way actually we can reach to a lot of people. If we try to stand out, now we are right and everybody else is a deviant. Everybody else is diluting, contaminating, distorting.

Then what happens, if we try to stand out, we are left out. You know, you people are sectarian, we don't want anything to do with you. But if we try to belong, yes, they are all good and we are also practicing spirituality, we are also sharing spirituality.

If we try to belong, we stand out. Why? Because we have serious sadhana. We have very sound philosophy.

We have many dedicated devotees. So, this whole approach that we try to stand out. Everyone else is deviant and we stand out.

That is the carryover from the rejection ethos of the 1960s. The whole world is bad and we have to become devotees, we are good. But that was not the only way.

The life members, they didn't become devotees. But Prabhupada, they were good because they were appreciative of Krishna. They were contributing Krishna in their own way.

So, when we try to stand out, I am the best. Then we are left out. Sometimes, I was at an interfaith meeting in Australia.

So, I was talking with the devotees after the meeting. And we had a very good meeting and then they were telling that somehow in the past, in Australia, we had a lot of negative publicity. But now things have changed.

So, what happens sometimes, we devotees live in a state of self-congratulatory isolation. Self-congratulatory isolation means what? I pat myself on the back. Well done.

So, I think I am good and everyone else is bad. But that mood comes off as very egoistic for others. And it alienates a lot of people.

So, the mood of Journey Home was that not in a way of rejecting everything else to surrender to Krishna, but rather accepting this is good, but that is the best. And that's how you bring people to Prabhupada's feet and Krishna's lotus feet. And this book had a… So, Maharaj saw this book as a launching pad for connecting with western audiences.

In the west, people are interested in spiritual individuals, not in religious institutions. They feel religious institutions, they have had bad experiences with the church and many things that happened in the church. I don't want to be associated with any institution.

But I am interested in spiritual individuals. So, when Maharaj is presented, if he is presented to western audiences, he goes to yoga people. He presents himself not as an ISKCON guru, but as the author of Journey Home.

That positioning is important. Because then people feel, oh, this person also went on a spiritual journey, had his own experiences and is going to share some wisdom. People are interested in that.

So, many doors which were never reached by devotees before, have now been opened by this. So, Maharaj feels that, and I met him last year in Chicago, he was telling that, the same amount of time I spend in New York, in London or in Mumbai. In London, the devotees can organize much bigger programs than what they can in New York.

And in Mumbai, they can organize even bigger programs. Any talk Maharaj gives, there will be more than thousand people there for the talk. Sometimes several thousand.

But Maharaj said that, Prabhupada said New York is the most important city in the world. Prabhupada said America is the country which is the most influential in the world. So, he says, I want to do something in America.

That's why, in a sense, he could be resting on his laurels. He could be just, in India, everybody arranges programs for him and he gives classes and thousands of people come for his classes. But, even now, he is spending more and more time in America, trying to reach out to Americans.

And sometimes it is possible that we may feel that we don't get personal association with the spiritual master. And that is something we have not just, say, devotees in America feel, even devotees in India feel, even Indian leaders also feel that. But, Maharaj's mood is that, now whatever is the most effective way in which Prabhupada can be served, in Prabhupada's mission can be served, that is where he wants to focus his energy.

And yes, there will always be issues which need to be resolved. But, our own issues, if we learn to resolve, we grow. It is not that we don't have any support system at all.

We have some support systems. We have a good devotee community around us. We have our God family.

We have other devotees to whom we can connect. So, but, for the western audiences, for them to connect with Indians is very difficult. For them to see Indians, especially in their land, as teachers is not so easy.

They may accept them as colleagues, but as teachers is very difficult. So, for them to come to Krishna, that's where Maharaj is focusing his energy quite a bit. And generally, when we live in a community, even in India, it's not that Maharaj is there everywhere.

For most of the first decade of my bhakti, I was in Pune. And although Pune and Mumbai are just 3-4 hours, but Maharaj would barely come once a year or once in 2-3 years to Pune also. We would go sometimes, but even when we go to Mumbai, we hardly get to associate with Maharaj much.

So, if we consider the Krishna Consciousness movement to be like a big university, where we all get spiritual knowledge, then our spiritual master is like the head of department of one department. This is the university, Prabhupada is the principal, Prabhupada is the founder, and there are many departments over here. So, our spiritual master is like the head of one department.

And say, if we get into this university and we are doing our PhD over there. For doing the PhD, usually the head of department has to sanction. Okay, this person can be admitted into the college.

And after that, depending on the specialization, depending on the situation, the PhD student will work with a particular PhD guide. And that PhD guide may not be the head of department at all. And most of the actual learning on the ground for the student will happen through the PhD guide.

Now, both the PhD guide and the head of department have the same purpose. That is to educate the students. But specifically, for particular students, the channels will be different.

So, similarly, if we consider, in the broad institution, educational institution for providing spiritual knowledge, the spiritual master is the head of the department. And the local community leader is like the PhD guide. So, most of our spiritual connection is with the local community and the local community leader.

So, wherever Maharaj goes, if from any community devotees go and talk with Maharaj, Maharaj tells them, you know, you please the local community leader. You serve him, if you please him, I'll be pleased. So, we have to see that there is individuality and there is commonality.

This individuality means each spiritual master is individual. They have their own personality, they have their own inspiration, they have their own areas of emphasis. But then all the gurus are having one purpose.

This commonality is the purpose is to take us towards Krishna. So, the nature of the mind is that it always tends to be dissatisfied. So, whatever situation we are in, we can look at what we have and be satisfied.

Or we can look at what we don't have and be dissatisfied. So, if we are materialistic people, we always look at material things. Oh, this person has a bigger car than me.

This person has a bigger house than me. And that makes us dissatisfied. That is typical of the mode of passion.

Now, when we come to bhakti, the mode of passion doesn't go away. The mode of passion still stays and then we bring that dissatisfaction to bhakti also. Oh, you know, I don't have this, I don't have that, I don't have that.

I don't have association of my spiritual master, I don't have this thing, I don't have that thing, I don't have that thing. I met, in Mayapur, I met one devotee. He is, he is from a country in Europe, you know, one of the countries which is in between the US-ISR block.

And they are small country. He says that in that whole country, he is the only devotee. One devotee in the whole country.

It's not a very big country. And he says that country is practically, they have no veganism also. Almost everybody is a non-vegetarian.

So, if you consider what facilities we have, just one person in the whole country is still practicing bhakti. So, we can look at what we don't have and we can feel dissatisfied. Or we can look at what we have and we can be satisfied.

So, satisfaction is not just emotion we feel. Satisfaction is also a decision we make. Sometimes we feel satisfied, yeah, this is so good, I feel satisfied after this.

But that feeling of satisfaction when it comes, that is nice. But satisfaction is also a decision that we make means, we consciously choose to look at the things that are right in our life. And based on that, we can cultivate satisfaction.

So, by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada and his dedicated followers, all of us have facilities to grow in spiritual life. Wherever we are. We may or may not have the personal association of a spiritual master.

But the spiritual master is a very important inspiration for the practice of bhakti. But at the same time, the spiritual master cannot practice our bhakti for us. It is we who have to practice our bhakti.

Once one devotee asked, one sanyasi, he asked Chandrapoli Maharaj. He says, Prabhupada, his chanting is so much more pure than my chanting. So, during japa, instead of chanting 16 rounds, can I hear Prabhupada's chanting for 2 hours? So, Chandrapoli Maharaj said that, Prabhupada has already done everything for you.

At least you chant. So, now we, whatever we need for our spiritual advancement, we have been provided. And if it is not provided, if we have a sincere desire to serve Krishna, it will be provided to us.

So, rather than letting the mind become dissatisfied, I don't have this, I don't have that, we focus on serving Krishna and the common mission of the spiritual master of Srila Prabhupada will come through various shiksha gurus and we will get the guidance, we will get the mercy and we will grow spiritually. So, the mood of, I will conclude with this point, that every spiritual master has their own inspiration of how they want to serve Krishna. Say, for example, there are some spiritual masters, their focus is to distribute a lot of books.

Prabhupada wanted books to be distributed, distributed a lot of books. That's wonderful. Some spiritual masters, they feel, yes, you have to build big temples.

As many temples you can build, that's nice. Some spiritual masters, they feel that, you know, we should, Prabhupada wrote so many books, I should focus on writing books or translating books. Different spiritual masters can have different focuses.

So, once I was at a Prabhupada Vyasa Puja ceremony in Radha Gopinath Temple and Maharaj spoke beautifully about Prabhupada's sacrifice and Prabhupada's starting Krishna consciousness movement. And then Maharaj said something that just felt, I felt Maharaj was revealing his heart. He said that, on this day, what can we offer to Prabhupada? He said that, all of us are the offering to Prabhupada.

Since we, as a community, practicing bhakti together, we are the offering to Prabhupada. So, again, what Maharaj focused on when he was in India, one of his prime contributions is to build a community where devotees can cooperatively live together and can practice bhakti and move towards Krishna. So, whichever community we are in, if we try to harmonize with the mood of that and contribute to that, then we will be also harmonizing with the overall mood in which Maharaj wants to contribute to Prabhupada's mission.

And we can grow towards Krishna. So, for us, the facility to serve Krishna is always coming from the spiritual master through the various representatives. So, if we take that facility, wherever we are, we can advance.

If we have that facility, but if we don't take the initiative, then even when we are very close to the spiritual master, we may not make much spiritual advancement. So, we take the inspiration from the spiritual master and move towards Krishna by our steady practice of whatever facility, steady practice of bhakti using whatever facilities we have. So, I'll summarize what I spoke.

I started by speaking about how the theme I spoke was on balancing between intensity and sustainability in the practice of bhakti. And especially, Raghav Maharaj's contribution towards a culture of sustainable bhakti. So, ISKCON started at a historically unusual moment when people rejected everything and moved into the temple.

But even during Prabhupada's time, when Prabhupada went to India, India didn't have that mood. So, Prabhupada accommodated them by creating life membership. You stay where you are, but just have some favorable attitude towards Krishna and make some contribution.

And then when the devotees found that, after Prabhupada left, they found that they could not practice that level of bhakti living in the temple, then they started to find their own way to practice bhakti. That's how the whole concept of congregation preaching emerged. In congregation preaching, the idea is, wherever devotees are, that is where, in whatever situation they are in, that's where they will practice bhakti.

And for their practice of bhakti, whatever facilities are required, we, as the devotee community, should provide that. When devotees have certain needs, rather than telling them that Krishna will protect you, it is our responsibility that Krishna protects His devotees through His devotees. So, we try to provide the system.

So, that's how, for facilitating the six-fold loving exchanges among devotees, there is a councilor system for providing devotees a setting in which they can harmonize their material proficiency with their spiritual association. There is a hospital or other projects like that. For devotees to move forward gracefully in grahastha ashram, there is marriage board.

Various other support systems that are required, providing that so that devotees can practice bhakti sustainably lifelong. That is what Maharaj focused on doing in the other Gopinath community. And then, once that community was reasonably well established, then he felt that, ISKCON is going down in America.

One reason being that the whole ethos has changed. People are not interested in rejecting the world and trying something new. They just want to experience something.

So then, Maharaj wrote Journey Home, which offers not prescriptive or normative spirituality, but descriptive spirituality. And through that, he has been able to connect many many people who were earlier, who saw ISKCON as very sectarian earlier and stayed away from it. They are coming closer to Krishna's movement.

If we try to stand out, we are left out. But if we try to belong, then we stand out. And for us, we consider the Krishna Conscious Movement to be like a university.

Our spiritual master is like the head of department and our community leader like our PhD guide. So the mission is common for everyone. So wherever we are, if we try to serve in a harmonious way, then we will grow spiritually.

Rather than looking at what we don't have and feeling dissatisfied, we understand that essential spiritual advancement comes not just by the personal association of the spiritual master. It comes by our commitment to practice bhakti. The spiritual master is meant to inspire us with that commitment.

But we can get that commitment from other sources also. And if we get that, wherever we are, we have been provided the facilities or we will be provided the facilities by Krishna's arrangement by which we can make steady spiritual advancement. And ultimately attain Prabhupada and Krishna's shelter.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? One or two quickly.

Yes. Thank you for a very, very thoughtful class. You mentioned in the beginning about contextualization of instruction.

I guess a related thing which I wanted to ask is when we kind of strip humanity away from a particular spiritual personality, spiritual master or teacher. To give an example, I have seen these discussions happening where people say, my guru knows everything about me, so whatever I am doing is okay. Or he will say within my heart.

And in fact, sometimes people also say within my dream. And it's like you strip the humanity. He is a personality, he is a human.

And we see even in Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's pastimes, even though he is a Manjari, but then he was also having spoils and things like that. There is a human side to it also. So instead of going into that speculation of just ascribing completely spiritual dimension, and I think Maharaj also once said, I am not Prabhupada.

I am different from people who are devoting themselves. So I want to understand how we can collectively educate ourselves to understand there is a personality, we should understand to serve and it's not a complete black and white. Yeah.

So how do we understand the humanity of the spiritual master that we don't say ascribe omniscience to them and think that they just know everything and they will tell us if we are doing something wrong in a dream or by some other means. The Mahabharata says, and Prabhupada would often quote that, that we have to follow the path laid out by the Mahajanas. And if you look actually at Prabhupada, he never operated on the platform of cleaving omniscience.

He asked, he wrote letters, inquired from devotees and based on the information that he got, he chose course of action. And in some cases, Prabhupada was misinformed. So, when the devotees were distributing books, one devotee wrote to Prabhupada and said that the devotees are now going back to their karmi ways in the name of distributing books.

Then Prabhupada said that they should always wear devotee clothes only. They cannot wear shirt pant. But then some other leaders told, Prabhupada, if you start wearing dhoti kurta and sarees, 50% of our book distribution will go down because people will not allow us to approach them only.

And I said, no, we are not wearing hippie clothes. We are not going back. We are wearing respectable civil clothes.

Oh, Prabhupada. Then that is okay. So, there are many examples like this of those who lived with Prabhupada.

He acted based on the information that he had. There could be a few occasions when Prabhupada read some devotee's mind. They told him exactly what they wanted.

And we do not deny the capacity of the spiritual master to exhibit paranormal knowing capacity. But that is not the normal operating level of the spiritual master. That is not how the spiritual Prabhupada operated and that is not the way we expect our spiritual master to operate also.

So, Prabhupada would periodically ask for reports from devotees and based on that he would give them guidance. So, for us also, we understand that the pure devotee's intention is pure. Pure devotee's intention is always to glorify Krishna.

But in the translation of their intention into action, the fact that they are in a human body, that will come out of the picture. When Hindu Mahasabha leader met Prabhupada in Mumbai and he said, Giriraj Maharaj, when I last time met him in Carpentica, he told me this past time. He said that, Prabhupada, this Hindu leader Mahasabha leader, he said that, Swamiji, you pronounce Sanskrit verses in a very Bengali way.

And he was from South India and South Indians have a very clear, very elegant way of pronouncing Sanskrit verses. So, Prabhupada said, what can I do? I am a Bengali. What do you expect from me? So, yes, it is not so much how the verses are pronounced, but how much the verses are realized.

It is with how much we are living the verses. So, the intent, the transcendence of a pure devotee is that their intent is always to serve Krishna. But in the translation of the intention into action, the fact that they are in a human body will come into the picture.

So, a pure devotee will always want us to grow spiritually. But exactly how we will grow spiritually, what we need to do for that, we may have to give them information for that. And Prabhupada did not tell anyone or did not write anywhere in his books that I will come in anyone's dream and give them instructions.

He said, what I wanted to give, I have given in my books. It is possible that Krishna, that Prabhupada can come in our dreams, spiritual master can come in our dreams. But if you see Prabhupada also, it was not just because his spiritual master came in his dream that he took sannyas.

He went and consulted his senior godbrothers. And then he got the approval of senior godbrother and then he took sannyas. So, we cannot say that the spiritual master cannot come in our dreams.

But at the same time, to think that that is the way he will come to give me instruction. To expect that or to demand that, that is not to follow the example of the Krishna chariots. If we have some issue, we need to consult them.

And if we need to give them some information, based on which they can give us some guidance, it is for us to give them that. It is not that we, if we start ascribing omniscience to the spiritual master in the name of reverence, I respect my spiritual master, but then we also have to understand that Prabhupada many times said the spiritual master is not Krishna. So, only Krishna is omniscient.

Spiritual master is servant of Krishna and in that sense, the spiritual master is, because he is being purely devoted to Krishna, the spiritual master is empowered to serve Krishna. Empowered to infuse Krishna in the hearts of others. But understanding that Prabhupada is not Krishna and the guru is not Krishna is very important.

Now, we will never go into Mayavada by saying our guru is Krishna. Actually, Mayavadas go further and they say everyone is Krishna. So, that is unlikely to happen in Vaishnavism, to say that everyone is Krishna.

But saying that the guru is Krishna, that is a contamination that has happened many times in Vaishnavism. The Swaminarayans, they are actually very pure lives. They are Vaishnavas, but they have put Swaminarayan into the centre.

There is Ramanandis, who are North Indian branches, North Indian followers of Ramavacharya. They divided into two groups because one of them said that Ramananda is Ram himself. Other said, no, he is a great devotee of Ram.

So, in Vaishnavism, Mayavada creeps in by making Vaishnavas believe that their guru is Krishna. So, we have to be careful about that also. Sir, you were mentioning about Maharashtra by creating systems.

So, for western preaching, are there any models that you can promote? So, for western preaching, are there any successful models that have worked out? Not exactly till now. Because western outreach also has happened in different ways. In the past, we distributed books.

Now, we are distributing books. But from the books to get people to become devotees, it's a long journey. So, Maharaj is spending a lot of time and energy in Bhakti Centre.

The idea is that, it's also following Prabhupada. There is a letter of Prabhupada. When he had come to New Zealand, he told that for the western people, there is no need for a temple.

So, just have a reading room with lot of books and give them the facility to read. In fact, when we got the LA temple, it was actually a church. And there, like in church, they had those benches, pews.

So, they had the pews over there. And Prabhupada told them, keep the pews. And he said, let people come inside with their shoes.

And he said, have the deities in some other room. But then what happened was, no other room was big enough to have the deities. Because people also want to come and take darshan.

But then they had to do that over there. But Prabhupada himself was very insightful in doing what was required for attracting people to Krishna. So, in the western tradition, for people to accept deities becomes a little difficult.

Because their tradition is very much against idolatry. And also, they are very strongly against sectarianism. So, we say our philosophy is universal, but externally we appear very sectarian.

You know, a particular dress, a particular kind of language, a particular kind of food. So, we need to present bhakti in a more universalist way. So, basically, connect with them through yoga, through meditation, through wisdom and through music.

And then gradually get them to Krishna, to take up bhakti in terms of, say, deity worship or other committed forms of practice. So, if you consider, this is like a main circle where people are practicing serious sadhana bhakti. So, for most western people to come to this circle is a big, big leap.

So, then we need a bigger concentric circle. And this circle could be based on wisdom. So, wisdom about how to live a spiritual life, how to live a balanced life.

Or it could be through yoga. A lot of people are interested in yoga. It could be through kirtan.

So many people. Actually, it was Iskcon that introduced kirtan to the western world. Prabhupada was the first person who actually did kirtan in a public way.

But now, kirtan has become such a big thing and Iskcon is nowhere in the kirtan scene, actually. So many other kirtanis are there, very big there. So, some devotees are trying to do that now, rectify that.

So, spiritual music, kirtan, that is something which they are interested in. So, we need to have some broader extension. So, in 1960s, 70s, the mood was of rejection.

Spirituality as accepting after rejection of the world. Now, the mood is of contribution. Now, how can your spirituality make a constructive contribution? Either to my life or to society at large.

Many people fancy themselves as activists. I want to be activist for some good cause. So, the Govardhan eco-village where we present eco-friendly living.

That is a way where we can present people who have the zeal for environmental activism to come towards Krishna. So, basically, the circle of pure bhakti, we need to extend further so that people find some accessible way to come towards Krishna. That can be yoga, that can be wisdom, that can be meditation, that can be music, that can be eco-friendly living.

Through all these, we can get people closer to Krishna. So, there is no one model which you can say has worked in a big way. But in small ways, each of these ways of connecting people with Krishna has worked and attracted a significant number of people to at least become more favourable and more connected, even if not committed at the level of sadhakas.

So, thank you very much.