Are God’s negative emotions under Maya?

philosophy is not the normal thing that people discuss most people if you have someone over to your home for lunch you might talk about politics, most people like to gossip who did this and what happened philosophy is not what most people discuss but philosophy is what we inevitably tend to discuss when there is some upheaval in our life Prabhupada says in the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita that there is always some upheaval in this world now the upheaval can be trivial maybe our favourite team lost the cricket match or it can be traumatic it can be catastrophic there is a storm which killed thousands of people but generally when things don’t go the way we think they should be going we just can’t make sense of things so philosophy is where we try to make sense of what doesn’t make sense that is the essence of when people look for philosophy we try to make sense of the things that don’t make sense if things were always making sense philosophers would become unemployed but when things don’t make sense then what is happening? why is it happening? what’s going on over here? is there any way to make sense of things? so what is the trauma that has happened over here? here this is a conversation between Vidura and Dhritarashtra now before this there has been a conversation between Vidura and Uddhava and it is at this particular time that Vidura gets the news that Krishna has departed from the world and not only has Krishna departed but Krishna has departed in a very devastating way the entire Yadu dynasty fights and has a fratricidal war in which the Dwarka Kingdom is destroyed and Krishna himself succumbs to almost a casual wound in the leg so in the face of such a trauma such a devastating departure of the Lord and his associates it is understandable that questions may rise what is happening? now the test of great devotees they may not be shaken because they are absorbed in the Lord but still here if we look back at what Maitreya has asked Maitreya has been asked by Vidura this particular theory is not exactly what Vidura has asked he has asked general questions about the Lord but Vidura starts by some people think like this so the fundamental question that comes in the human mind on seeing especially disturbing pastimes like the Lord’s Tripuras that is addressed here well by Maitreya so for Vidura’s sake if not for Vidura’s sake for our sake so what is he saying over here? that some people think that see normally we understand this is the material world material level, this is the spiritual level and the Lord exists at the spiritual level and now the material level is the domain of Maya so when the Lord comes to this world what happens? is the Lord under Maya or is the Lord beyond Maya? now there are several examples given Prabhupada gives the example in this purport how the clouds are created by the sun the clouds cover the sun but they don’t cover the sun the clouds actually they cover only our perception of the sun it is to our vision that the sun is covered so the other example Prabhupada gives elsewhere is like a king who enters into a jail the king is not a prisoner the king is not under the prison laws now we may say this is a self-evident point why would anyone make an argument that God has come under emotion well, so and this is the context, it’s better to speak five points first, this is the context I’ll speak about two particular traditions in which this particular idea comes in and then we’ll talk from the Vishnu tradition what is the Vishnu understanding of it and how it relates to us when we face situations where our faith may be challenged so in the Advaitic idea many of us, for us Advaitavada or as Prabhupada called it Mayavada Mayavada is commonly talked about as that we are all God I was in America and there was a boy not a boy, a young man in one of the what they call the hip neighbourhoods I was an atheist till I discovered I was God so this is a common idea that you are God, I am God, we are all God now this actually is not Mayavada it is what we can call as Neo-Mayavada now Neo-Mayavada is a distortion of traditional Mayavada of traditional Mayavada what Shankaracharya teaches is what he tries to interpret the Veda Sutra is that Brahman is the only reality so the common understanding of Mayavada is that we are here, God is here and then we merge into God and then we become God that is the idea but this idea is not Mayavada this is the model over simplification to the point of distortion of Mayavada this is Neo-Mayavada traditional Mayavada is what? Brahman is the only reality now when Brahman comes in touch with Sattva it becomes Ishvara so we can use the word Jagadish I will tell why I am using this particular name so Brahman in touch with Sattva is Jagadish now there are variants of this but this is a simplified outline Brahman in touch with Rajas is Jiva and Brahman in touch with Tamas is Jagad so all these three according to them are in the domain of Maya so Jiva, Jagad and Jagadish I use the word Jagadish for the alliteration of three Js so Jiva, Jagad and Jagadish all three are in the domain of Maya and their idea is ultimately we realise all three are Maya and the only thing that exists is Brahman so the ultimate realisation is not exactly that Jiva enters into God or Jiva enters into Brahman rather just realise the falsity of all of this so we begin first by realising the falsity of the Jagad this word is Maya but it is very difficult to realise that why? because the Jagad casts a spell it is almost like a noose which ties the soul so they say to get out of the gravity pull of the Jagad temporarily, transitionally the Jiva can worship Ishwara so for them Bhakti which is the Jiva worshipping Ishwara is basically what is it? it is just a transitional tool so you get out of the clutches of Jagad as Jiva comes closer and closer to Ishwara that eventually it is not exactly that Jiva and Ishwara merge their idea is that Jiva realises that Ishwara is Maya and Jiva is also Maya so my sense of I-ness is Maya and the sense of Godhood that is also Maya that’s why their idea is non-duality non-duality means there is nothing except Brahman so within this philosophy Jagadish, Ishwara the avatar of the Lord they are intrinsically in Maya just coming into this world means they are in Maya now this is of course completely a distortion because there are many places for example in the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna says he is not saying he is saying everything comes from nothing higher than his ultimate reality so at least if you stick to the Bhagavad Gita then it’s very clear while there are some verses which can be read impersonalistically by doing a little stretching of the grammar and the context but the pre-ponderance of the verses in the Bhagavad Gita are very categorical in establishing Krishna as the highest reality yo mam eva asambudho janati purushottam sarvabhavid bhajati mam sarvabhavena bharatam one who understands me to be the supreme being that person is sarvabhavid Krishna that person knows everything that person knows the fullest reality so the way the Mayavadas try to say that actually chapter 7 to 12 these are the Bhakti Yuga chapters so in these Krishna talks about his supremacy but in other sections he doesn’t talk about it but it’s not that simple 7, 7, 10, 8 these verses are there I quoted these but 6.30, 6.47 this is the Dhyan section 6.30 is it says one who sees me in everything and everything in me such a person is never lost so never lost to me nor am I lost to that person so what does this mean? Krishna is clearly talking about a state beyond Maya and so this in 6.47 is so this is in one sense the topmost perception Krishna is saying and the topmost yogi both are clearly seeing Krishna as the highest reality and this is in the Dhyan Yuga chapter even before that of course in 5.29 we have Krishna says that now Shanti is the goal of the impersonalists so Krishna is specifically using the word Shanti over there and he is saying that and he is not talking about any impersonal nature beyond and then even if we go into the last 6 chapters these are the Dhyana section is considered to be but here also I quoted this verse 15.19 very categorical Krishna is saying such a person knows everything so Sarvamit is a very categorical declaration such a person knows everything what does that mean? so both the words that means there is no illusion it is not that this is a person who is still in the Mohamaya Brahman and then after that Sarvamit so both of them are very categorical declarations and Krishna says now of course towards the end we have 18.65 where Krishna is saying so there are a couple of places where Krishna uses the word Mamatma but those are very few and somebody can say that Krishna’s Atma is different from Krishna but Krishna uses them as compared to how often he uses Ma he uses Mamatma very rare only a couple of times in the Gita the point is that if somebody wants to read Gita impersonalistically ok some verses they can find that but if one reads the Gita fully the preponderance of the verses points to the personal reality at the highest level so as far as the Gita is concerned Krishna is beyond Maya so the impersonalist reading is not supported by the Bhagavad Gita we could analyse other texts also like that but let’s stick to the Bhagavad Gita for now so now the impersonalist understanding that the Lord is under Maya but it’s interesting that even those who are theistic sometimes they have this notion so one problem is that emotion is all illusion this is the Mayavadi idea the Mayavadi idea is all emotion comes as a product of illusion and we need to go beyond illusion now for even those who accept the Lord’s personhood that means they accept that the Lord is the supreme reality who reigns in the spiritual level but even for them when the Lord descends as Avatar the question comes when he comes as Avatar does he come under Maya what exactly is his relationship and especially when this question comes up even for those who are accepting the personhood when the Lord exhibits emotions that seem mundane mundane like emotions so for example when in the Ramayana Lord Ram is separated from Sita and he is in agony he’s crying tears of lamentation and then what is going on how can the Lord be in tears like this how can the Lord be in agony like this even in Krishna Leela when the demon Shalu is trying to attack Dwarka one time he comes and gets an effigy of Krishna’s father Vasudev and he acts as if he’s going to lock off the head and he kills and Krishna seems to be shaken for a moment even in the Ramayana when Indrajit is trying various means to try to get the better of Ram and Lakshmi when he can’t he decides that I have to perform a Yajna but he needs time for that Yajna so what he does is he makes it look like an effigy of Sita and he drags her in his airborne chariot and there Hanuman and the various Vanaras are fighting and Hanuman boasts to Hanuman this is what you have come for I will defeat your very purpose and Hanuman screams you villain, you should not attack a woman Hanuman picks up a huge rock and hurls it and Indrajit tries to stop him Indrajit laughs mockingly and raises himself above he raises himself above but at that time right in front of Hanuman he locks off the head of that image of Sita and then Hanuman is so infuriated he attacks Indrajit attacks Indrajit but Indrajit just laughs and keeps rising higher the Vanaras are frantic on seeing Sita being killed they try to attack but Indrajit is mocking and rising higher and higher at that time Hanuman says stop, stop, there is no point in fighting and Hanuman goes and tells Ram and then Ram hears this Ram just faints and everybody is frozen, everybody has stopped fighting and then Vibhishan has been fighting in another part of the battle and he sees suddenly the battle seems to have stopped what happened? he comes over and sees a place where everybody is crowded he comes there and he sees Ram is unconscious he asks what happened over there and then Ram has just regained his consciousness he is completely desolate and at that time Hanuman tells Indrajit has killed Sita now while everybody is in agony Vibhishan sees Ammu Vibhishan says that’s impossible he said Rahul fought this whole war because he wanted to have Sita for himself he would not let Sita be killed this is just a trick Sita is not dead Ram is so dazed Vibhishan, what are you saying? Vibhishan explains it again and then Vibhishan says this must be a trick Indrajit must have gone to the Bhuvane that’s where he wants to perform a yajna if he succeeds in performing that sacrifice then he will be invincible you have to stop him right now and then Ram is still in a daze Lakshman says I will go and fight with Indrajit and then they depart so here it appears as if Lord Ram is overcome by illusion and Vibhishan gets in all of illusion so how can we say such incidents happen? now we give the explanation that it is Leela now many times when we use the word Leela it is from a spiritual perspective it is perfectly right but from a logical perspective it can seem like a logical pop out that whatever you can’t explain you call it a Leela and that can seem very unsatisfactory to the logical mind now we can always say that you cannot understand God by logic that also doesn’t seem logically satisfactory so what is actually happening over there? or how do we understand or explain this in a way that even a rational mind can at least get some sense of so the thing is that there is an underlying misconception over here that with respect to the Lord because he is above maya he can only have positive emotions positive emotions means joy, happiness celebration, victory that only these are pure transcendental emotions and any what we call as negative emotions negative emotions would be grief, pain all these are negative emotions and these cannot be experienced by the Lord why? because these are considered a product of the Lord however this itself is a questionable emotion that means what we are saying is that there are certain emotions that are so powerful that if they are experienced by God they will put God in the mind so the explanation that is given for such emotions by certain Vaishno traditions also is that when the Lord comes in this world he comes under maya so for example you say the Lord gets cursed by someone some Rishi and because of this XYZ happens to him so now all this is the idea that the Lord is under the runes of material nature well it’s not that simple so why is this? because we will see that generally whenever if somebody is under a curse they can’t snap out now one moment I am under the curse next moment I am out of the curse if we see the Lord in Dhamma Danila for example at one moment he is not able to untie the ropes which have tied him and it seems to be a child who has been tied by his mother of course before that he has shown he is no child his mother has to get all the ropes in Gokul tied but anyway if you look at that particular time he seems to be tied but the next moment what does he see? hey! these trees are actually Nalapuramani tree and my devotee Narada had promised that I would deliver them and that small child who cannot seem to untie a knot on a rope that child brings down two giant trees so what is happening over here is if the Lord were actually cursed a curse is just a form of maya if the Lord has come under maya so curse is like a subset within maya within the domain of mental nature then the Lord if he has actually lost his omnipotence because of coming under maya then how would he next moment come out of that? so the concept of Gila is not that the Lord comes under maya rather the Lord what he does is the Lord is not so much interested in proving his divinity that is not his primary interest his interest is in relishing intimacy the Lord wants to relish intimate pastimes with his devotees and for that purpose whatever is required he does that it’s just like if somebody may be in a very big position but if they are constantly themselves conscious and making others conscious you know I am the Prime Minister of the country I am the head of this temple I am this, this, this they are constantly reminding everyone of their position then it’s very difficult to come close to the temple because there the reminder of their position whether they do it or someone else does it whoever is doing it the reminder of greatness it becomes an obstacle in closeness in intimacy now you could say two great people mean they can come close to each other, that’s possible but the Lord is Asamoordhva, there is no one equal to him so Krishna is not primarily interested in proving or preserving his Godhood Krishna is not an insecure God who wants everyone to remember I am God, I am God don’t forget it we need to remember him so that we become purified but among his own devotees when he is performing pastimes he doesn’t need everyone to remember that he is God he just wants to experience the rich gamut of various emotions and it is through the rich range of emotions that are experienced that Krishna actually bonds himself to his devotees and the devotees get bonded to him so this is when we say Leela, the point of Leela is not to show Krishna’s greatness it is for Krishna to relish his Madhurya to savour and share his Madhurya now greatness may be demonstrated but more than the Aishwarya is the Madhurya and for that whatever is required Krishna will do that so this is where the idea of Yoga Maya comes in in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna uses the word Yoga Maya he does not technically use it in the sense of the Yoga Maya, the term as it is understood in the Gaudiya tradition but that usage comes most close in the 10th cant of the Srimad Bhagavatam in the start of the Rashtriya pastimes so I’ll make two points about this Yoga Maya before we come to the concluding point in this class that Yoga Maya is in what is English called an oxymoron oxymoron is basically two opposite words brought together so Yoga basically means connection and Maya means illusion so normally what illusion does is cause a disconnection so literally if we take the word Yoga Maya what it is like the word that is a brilliant fool is it a brilliant or a fool it’s a oxymoron two opposite ideas brought together that is a kind killer now if you are a killer how are you kind so now when oxymorons are composed it is not just for the sake of intellectual deletion it is for conveying something deeper so when the Bhagavatam uses the word Yoga Maya so normal Maya is the illusion that takes us away from connection that weakens our connection that is normal Maya but Yoga Maya is the illusion that deepens connection that strengthens connection that sweetens the connection so to the extent Yashoda Mai thinks that Krishna is my child if I don’t feed him he will stay hungry he may even die it is to that extent that she can actually experience maternal emotions and similarly it is Krishna who enters into that role of a small child so when he is there is an emotion of fear in his eyes is it that he is just doing a nakara he is just showing his eyes so that his mother will not chastise him severely maybe but it is also possible that Krishna when he enters into that role he feels that fear but the key thing is when Krishna enters into that role Krishna is not coming under her he is choosing to take on that role so that he can reciprocate love but at any moment when he wants he can come out of that role he is not controlled in the sense that he is not under the spell of the emotions he is experiencing those emotions he is relishing those emotions but whenever he wants he can come out of those emotions so the concept of leela is what enables the lord to relish the full range of emotions if Krishna is complete why should Krishna be deprived of the full range of emotions that are experienced in this world now we may say why should Krishna experience something like grief or agony well, it is not that grief or anxiety or agony are pleasant emotions but those emotions are an integral part of a healthy relationship of a real relationship and Narasimhadev gets angry that anger shows his love for Prahlad now if there is no anger over there then okay, the lord loves his devotees but how do we really know that how do we really experience that so both from the lord’s perspective and from our perspective so the lord actually when he enters into the room he is experiencing those emotions and a metaphor can be given for this that if we consider leela to be like a play that is one of the translations of the word leela Prabhupada translated it as play also like a drama when you perform so in this drama Krishna is like the hero Krishna is the hero, Krishna’s associates are like the other characters the supporting cast now Yogamaya is the director so the director arranges the sets the director arranges everything now when the director arranges things it’s almost as if the director also controls that and the director will seem to be in charge well yes, but beyond that the director is directing according to a script so there is a script writer and that script writer is Krishna so Krishna is controlled by Yogamaya according to his own plan so this is Krishna is not in control and yet Krishna is in control Krishna is not in control in the sense that when he is actually enacting that role he is fully into that emotion he is completely absorbed but at the same time it is not that Krishna is that play is going out of Krishna’s control because ultimately the director is directing according to the script given by Krishna so Krishna is in charge Krishna may seem to come under Maya but he is not coming under Maya he is Maya is acting under his control and for us I’ll conclude with this last point for us sometimes when we are in trouble and when we pray to Krishna and somehow no help seems to be coming then we may if we have had sufficient practise of bhakti we have had sufficient faith in God then we may not deny God’s existence we may say that okay God exists but then why doesn’t God help me so there is one Jewish theology who came up with the idea that that actually God is all good but God is not all powerful so there are different kinds of explanations that we might come up with maybe right now that theology’s idea was that satan is more powerful than Krishna eventually God will assert his power but right now satan is more powerful well that is a contradiction to what scripture teaches but let’s try to understand what Krishna tells when things happen like this see in the asat sabhaya in the terrible assembling where horrendous act of the disrobing of Draupadi happened if we have seen some movies or TV series there we see as if Krishna is coming and smiling and raising his hand from his hand the endless garment is coming but actually nobody sees Krishna all that happens is Vishasan is trying to disrobe Draupadi and the disrober gets exhausted and nobody understands why it happened it is a miracle and it is because of Draupadi’s chastity that Vishasan could not disrobe her but later on when they go to the forest and they are in the forest and Krishna comes to meet them and when Krishna comes to meet Draupadi breaks down and she is almost angry with Krishna so she says Krishna I am your friend I am your relative, I am your devotee I needed you, I called you why didn’t you come Krishna again doesn’t take I am God, my plan is perfect why do you question my plan Krishna does not take that attack at all he says, oh Panchali I had no idea there was any plan of a gambling match also after the rants we had got over there was a demon Shalva attacked Dwarka and I had to rush to protect him it was a fierce fight and as soon as I had protected Dwarka I got free and I heard the news that all this happened I have come immediately oh Panchali, I have heard how everyone in that assembly was hurtling towards Adharma you alone remained firm in the path of Dharma you alone reminded everyone of Dharma although they tried to dishonour you it is you who emerged as the most honourable person in that assembly oh Draupadi, your ears will not go in vain and he pacifies her and Draupadi becomes pacified and Draupadi becomes happy and then Krishna turns towards Panchali and Krishna’s is red hot with anger and Krishna says those wicked people who hurt Draupadi like this I will destroy them right now they do not deserve to live Krishna is wild with rage and it is at that time that Arjuna offers prayers to pacify Krishna there are not many places in the entire Krishna-Arjuna relationship where Arjuna offers prayers Arjuna says, Krishna, you are the Supreme Lord nothing happens except by your plan by your plan, your devotees will always be protected and Krishna, on hearing those prayers of Arjuna becomes pacified becomes pacified so sometimes as devotees when we are going through trouble sometimes we start thinking, is Krishna angry with me that I am going through such trouble in this world, people can do terrible things and everybody has that karma by which they may be able to do some terrible things but we should know that Krishna is not angry with us Krishna is angry for us Krishna was not angry with Draupadi because of which all this happened to him Krishna was angry for Draupadi so how dare they do something like this that’s why Narasimhadeva after killing Hiranyakashyapu when the Devatas offered prayers the Lord didn’t even pay attention to them He said, when my devotee was in danger you neither protected him nor did you protest you did nothing when the need was there and now you are offering big prayers to me, I don’t care so the Lord is angry for us Krishna is not up there causing us suffering Krishna is in here with us Krishna is helping us face the suffering so this is the Lord we shouldn’t think that when I am going through suffering oh Krishna is in the spiritual world dancing with the Gopis, He doesn’t care yes Krishna is dancing with the Gopis but Krishna’s omnipotence means that he can be at multiple places and multiple times not just be at multiple places Krishna in those multiple places can experience multiple emotions so Krishna in our heart cares for us Krishna cares for us so much that not only is there constantly with us He is constantly striving to bring us closer to Him the Lord is tirelessly working so Krishna’s emotions they work for us so when Krishna experiences emotions they work in both ways for His devotees those who are already devoted to Him in the past time they bring intimacy that the devotees come closer to Him for those of us who are sadhakas these Krishna’s emotions they can give us confidence they can give us faith they can reassure us that Krishna never abandons us Krishna has not forgotten us Krishna knows what we are going through and Krishna will redeem everyone when Srila Prabhupada is all alone in the streets of Delhi knocked down by a hit stroke knocked down by a cow Krishna knew that Krishna allowed that to happen for His own purpose in that case the purpose was Prabhupada’s glory will be established much more when David Allen attacked Prabhupada Prabhupada had to leave and he was homeless on the street not knowing what to do Krishna was there Krishna allowed that to happen so that eventually the glory of Prabhupada will be there so what specifically Krishna’s plan is when we feel abandoned by Krishna we may not know but rather than thinking that Krishna has abandoned me we understand that Krishna is with me and Krishna is helping me face the situation it is not that Krishna is bringing the difficulty to devote His life for whatever reason yes Krishna could bring the difficulty some evil person could bring the difficulty the world or nature could bring that difficulty but the key point is Krishna is there to help us face that difficulty mat chintasana durgati mat prasadat darshi that if we take up consciousness of Krishna we will pass over all obstacles by His grace so I’ll summarise I discussed probably 5 points today first we were discussing about is Ishwar in Maya that was a broad topic so first point was about the context that people turn to philosophy amid drama philosophy is humanity’s attempt to make sense of what doesn’t make sense so in this particular case Krishna’s departure is what has prompted this whole discussion and although Vidura doesn’t directly address a question like this but Maitreya is anticipating and is addressing that the idea that now the Lord comes under Maya so Ishwar under Maya that is at one level a Advaitic notion so in the Advaitic, the non-dual idea the neo-Mayavada holds that we become God but the traditional Mayavada what it says is Brahman is the only reality and Jagadish, Jiva and Jagat, all three are Maya which are to be given now you can worship the Ishwar temporarily but ultimately it will go beyond Ishwar so that philosophy we discussed in all the sections, not just the Bhakti section like 7.7, 10.8 but even in the Karma, Vidya, Dhyana section 6.30, 6.47 or for that matter in the Dhyana section 15.19 or 18.65 Krishna is categorically refuting that idea that He is under Maya then we discussed that how even within the devotional traditions there are some which hold that that the Avatar comes under Maya because the Avatar seems to experience some negative emotions but the problem is, this notion is that negative emotions, they say, the Lord can only experience positive emotions negative emotions, they are under Maya but if the Lord is complete why should He not experience all the emotions that animate a rich and real relationship so the last thing we discussed about in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition the explanation is of Yogamala, it is an illusion that actually strengthens connection normally illusion weakens connection but this is an illusion that strengthens connection so when the Lord experiences emotions and the devotees experience emotions what is happening is, they bring intimacy and Krishna’s concern in Leela is more to establish intimacy rather than to prove His supremacy that is not His primary concern therefore Krishna apparently comes under Maya but in any moment He can come out so we discussed how Krishna is both the actor the hero and the script writer so He is, in one sense as a hero, He is into that pastime into that Leela, He is experiencing those emotions as if completely consumed by those emotions but the whole narrative is happening according to His will so He is out of Maya and the last thing we discussed, that when we feel abandoned when we feel as if, is Krishna not in control of the situation why is Krishna letting this happen so it is not that Krishna has abandoned us we discussed the Draupadi pastime that in distress, it is that Krishna is angry for us not with us He is there with us to help us face the sufferings and overcome the sufferings so the world’s power to hurt is great and it will hurt us all even when we are practising Bhakti but greater than the world’s power to hurt is God’s power to heal thank you very much Shanti Japa is not living but I am Krishna and so I will say it over again thank you for the angel class and this whole area of emotional emotions plays a very big role in our minds as settlers and this is expressed by Shanti Japa that Shanti Hare Krishna is not living it is heartbeat Shanti is a genuine drive a child for his mother and I have put together this Japa affirmations to really stress at this point and I felt that Shanti from my heart has really improved my Japa tremendously much less infection out of my mind and in my heart fully present experiencing all the pain and then there comes this fear and fear and fear so even on a sad level is this a comment or a question? so is it a comment or a question? it’s a comment and I would like to hear your comments I would like to connect with what you said yes true that sometimes we may reduce bhakti to a set of rituals that have to be done and chanting a particular number of pranams can become like that so I just have to get this done but if you remember it’s a relationship with the Lord and that’s what Prabhupada says in Nectar of Instruction it’s related that Prabhupada says the substance of devotional service is not imagination, ecstasy or sentimental speculation it is practical service so practical service doesn’t just mean that we clean the temple or wash the plates or whatever practical service means that’s my understanding, the way we would act if we are in a real relationship with someone if we call out someone’s name we mean to call out to that person we want to connect with that person so yes, if we focus on that point of the relationship and see the chanting in the light of that relationship then in the Gopis are calling out Krishna so at that time for them Krishna is a living loving person and they are connecting with him and they are calling out his name so I found that if we hear Krishna’s pastimes or hear about Krishna and those thoughts about Krishna are alive in our consciousness then the investment of emotion in our chanting is relatively easier if our thoughts are caught in the world I had to do this and this person did like this and that person did like that and then Krishna is more like an abstract concept than a living reality for us than a real loving person so the more we hear about Krishna especially we hear those pastimes which touch our heart then it’s easier to bring emotion into our chanting in the pure stage, chanting will bring emotion into our heart but mostly in the sadhaka stage we have to bring emotion from our heart into our chanting eventually that emotion will come from the chanting thank you thank you very much do you want to comment something Rajesh? Hi Rishi, thank you for the wonderful class it was quite an intellectual work can you also debunk the misconceptions of Christianity on the relation of God and material world ok, I was going to speak on that but it’s a little technical, it’s going to take some time that’s why, that was one of the points I was going to speak, I didn’t but basically, I’ll include a few points see, in the Abrahamic traditions God is considered to be as completely the other separate from this world and this is most in the Islamic tradition that nothing can be associated with God that’s why they consider that deity worship to be that they are associating God with man they say that Allah can forgive every sin except the sin of idolatry they say that nothing can be connected with God now what happened in Christian tradition is that the Old Testament God is more like a remote God a distant God and it’s very difficult to actually develop a personal connect to love such a God so, in the Christian tradition after Jesus was crucified for almost 4 centuries there was this whole idea, who is Jesus? there’s a debate about that, or at least confusion for almost 4 centuries the Nicene Creed was declared by the Church and they said that the divinity of Christ is manifested in the humanity of Jesus so they consider Jesus to be fully human and fully divine so Jesus said that I am the Son I’m not the Father, the Father has sent me many Christians for all practical purposes they worship Jesus as if he’s God and their idea is that one says that remote, inaccessible God who is very difficult to love that inaccessible God becomes accessible through the person of Jesus so, now the problem with this idea is that Jesus is fully God in their tradition they have the idea that when Jesus was crucified, actual blood came out that Jesus, it was clear that his body was a material body in fact, it is from that, from their understanding of Jesus itself the word incarnation comes incarnation has the root karna karna is karmic, associated with flesh so incarnation means to come in flesh so that now, in our tradition, Prabhupada didn’t use the word incarnation but Prabhupada qualified that the Lord doesn’t come in flesh so avatar is different from incarnation in the literal etymological sense so when they have this idea that whatever emotions they have for Christ, for God you see most of the songs that Christians write Christian music is very popular but most of their songs are directed towards Jesus not towards God because God is such an abstract reality that it becomes very difficult to love God Prabhupada says God is all pervading like the sky you can be out with the sky, but who can say I fall in love with the sky how can you reciprocate with the sky so they have basically transposed all the emotions to Jesus and then in their particular conception by elevating Jesus to the level of Godhood that God becomes accessible over them so both ideas that God is so remote that He can have nothing to do with this world that itself is a flawed idea because God can come to this world and still remain transcendental and the idea that somebody who has come in the material world who suffers materially that that person is fully God and that is against even the pure words of Jesus now of course in the Bible they can quote some words which say that Jesus also says that but overall you mean that is in the Bible and there are so many quotes where Jesus clearly says He is not God so the emotions that are meant to go towards Christ or God they transport towards Jesus because Christ is almost like an inaccessible principle while the principle of love of God is what we share with Christianity the clarity about the object of love that is quite fuzzy within the Christian tradition so thank you very much Pranth Raj, Shri Mithra Bhavatam Ki Srila Prabhupada Ki Gaurav Chalendra Ki