Are ritvikas who reject Krishna’s pure devotees better or worse than the Mayavadis who reject Krishna’s personal form?

Answer Podcast

Question are the rithviks who reject the pure devotees of Krishna better or worse than the mayavadis who reject the form of Krishna answer generally it’s very very subjective when we compare broad categories of people although some comparisons like this are given in scripture and are done by acharyas but elsewhere we will see that they also describe nuances they also describe shades of grey so we have for example shridhar swamy who was affiliated officially with impersonalist sampradaya and yet his commentary which also contains impersonal sections his commentary as well as he himself are venerated by our tradition which was strongly against against monism against impersonalism non dualism so why because you know he also had devotional insights shridhar swamy and chaitanya mahaprabhu focused on that essence of shridhar swamy’s devotion while overlooking whatever impersonalist affiliation or whatever impersonalist commentation also he might have done so now having made this caveat this warning that we cannot apply blanket generalizations to whole categories of people we have to see that the way people are is at one level because of their free will but at another level because of their circumstances also and we need to always be considerate and kind to people and we need to think how best can I help them even if somebody is envious Bhaktanath Thakur explains that we stay away from the envious people not because we envy them but because we know that as devotees just seeing us will increase their envy and they will offend Krishna further so our disposition should always be positive towards everyone not judgmental or negative now coming specifically people who are mayavadis and people who are rathveks they all may well be a product of their circumstances to a large extent we don’t know what the individual consciousness of who is if somebody has grown up in a family where impersonal was taught or has grown up in a culture where impersonalism was a prominent culture and that’s how they adopted that now whether they intentionally knowingly want to blaspheme mayavadis we don’t know they want to blaspheme in the form of the lord we don’t know so certainly what they speak has the potential of hurting them and hurting people’s devotion to the lord so definitely that is what we need to avoid but we don’t have to demonize mayavadis we have to see that they are also on the spiritual path but they have got a serious misunderstanding about the spiritual path and if we can’t correct the misunderstanding we certainly have a responsibility to protect ourselves from the misunderstanding and we have to protect others from it also now having said that if we move further and look at how rathvekism is arising if you only look at how the rathveks are say criticizing the needles of our movement you may feel that they are offending great devotees and therefore they are doomed and certainly it is unfortunate that there is often serious offense being committed towards great devotees because of because by people who are of rathvek orientation but on another level we have to also recognize that rathvekism has arisen from certain complex situations which involved devotees losing faith so that happened because many of the leaders who people at that time believed were pure devotees turned out to be far from that standard and they engaged in serious wrongdoings which led to people losing faith and many of the rathvek rathvekism as an idea it has arisen primarily from hurt hearts and from great faith so what unfortunately some of the rathveks don’t realize is that the current leaders of our movement at least many of the current leaders they were not only betrayers they were also among the people who were betrayed by the rathveks and they also had to fight they also had to fight against the shock that came when this thing happened and they themselves had to recover from the shock and they had to help others recover so whereas many of the leaders in ISKCON now are rebuilding the movement from within there are others who feel that the whole edifice is wrong and they want to make some foundational change which has no precedence in our tradition so therefore the important thing is that everyone of us has to recognize that there can be people who have their devotion to Krishna, devotion to Prabhupada but at present they may be expressing their devotion in a seriously inappropriate way so again their association can contaminate us and we need to do that which is favorable for our devotion so we need to keep a safe distance from them but we don’t have to become super judgmental they are also practicing sadhana they are also practicing bhakti in their way, whatever they can and certainly they are criticizing devotees as a grievous wrong but I would say that best to not make moral judgments about anyone just focus on that which is favorable to our bhakti and move forwards we need to see from our perspective if a particular association is injurious to our spiritual life then we have to avoid it and in our spiritual life it could well be that the association of the Mayavadis as well as the association of the Frithviks can be injurious to our bhakti so we need to keep a distance from them but we don’t have to go into making blanket judgments about any category of people in general

Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Question, are the rittveks who reject the pure devotees of Krishna better or worse than the Mayavadis who reject the form of Krishna? Answer, generally it's very very subjective when we compare broad categories of people. Although some comparisons like this are given in scripture and are done by Acharyas, but elsewhere we will see that they also describe nuances. They also describe shades of grey.

So we have, for example, Siddhaswami who was affiliated officially with the impersonalist sampradaya and yet his commentary which also contains impersonal sections, his commentary as well as he himself are venerated by our tradition just strongly against against monism, against impersonalism, non-dualism. So why? Because you know he also had devotional insights, Siddhaswami, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu focused on that essence of Siddhaswami's devotion while overlooking whatever impersonalist affiliation or whatever impersonalist commentation also he might have done. So now having made this caveat, this warning that we cannot apply blanket generalizations to whole categories of people, we have to see that the way people are is at one level because of their free will but it is another level because of their circumstances also.

And we need to always be considerate and kind to people and we need to think how best can I help them. Even if somebody's envious, Bhaktanath Thakur explains that we stay away from the envious people not because we envy them but because we know that as devotees just seeing us will increase their envy and they will offend Krishna further. So our disposition should always be positive towards everyone, not judgmental or negative.

Now coming specifically people who are mayavadis and people who are rathveks, they all may well be a product of their circumstances to a large extent. We don't know what the individual consciousness of who is. If somebody has grown up in a family where impersonal was taught or has grown up in a culture where impersonalism was a prominent culture and that's how they adopted that.

Now whether they intentionally knowingly want to blaspheme mayavadis, we don't know. They want to blaspheme the form of the Lord, we don't know. So certainly what they speak has the potential of hurting them and hurting people's devotion to the Lord.

So definitely that is what we need to avoid but we don't have to demonize mayavadis. We have to see that they are also on the spiritual path but they have got a serious misunderstanding over the spiritual path and if we can't correct the misunderstanding we certainly have a responsibility to protect ourselves from that misunderstanding and we have to protect others from it too. Now having said that if we move further and look at how rathvekism has arisen.

If you only look at how the rathveks are say criticizing the leaders of our movement, you may feel that they are offending great devotees and therefore they are doomed. Certainly it is unfortunate that there is often serious offense being committed towards great devotees by people who are of rathvek orientation but on another level we have to also recognize that rathvekism has arisen from certain complex situations which involved devotees losing faith. So that happened because many of the leaders who people at that time believed were pure devotees turned out to be far from that standard and they engaged in serious wrongdoings which led to people losing faith and many of the rathvek, the whole rathvekism as an idea it has arisen primarily from hurt hearts and from betrayed faith.

So what unfortunately some of the rathveks don't realize is that the current leaders of our movement at least many of the current leaders they were not their betrayers they were also among the people who were betrayed by the rathveks and they also had to fight they also had to fight against the shock that came when this thing happened and they themselves had to recover from the shock and they had to help others recover. So whereas many of the leaders in ISKCON now are rebuilding the movement from within there are others who feel that the whole edifice is wrong and they want to make some foundational change which has no precedence in our tradition. So therefore the important thing is that every one of us has to recognize that there can be people who have their devotion to Krishna, devotion to Prabhupada but at present they may be expressing their devotion in a in a seriously inappropriate way.

So again their association can contaminate us and we need to do that which is favorable for our devotion. So we need to keep a safe distance from them but we don't have to become super judgmental. They are also practicing sadhana they are also practicing bhakti in their way whatever they can and certainly they're criticizing devotees as a grievous wrong but I would say that best to not make moral judgments about anyone is focus on that which is favorable to our bhakti and move forwards.

We need to see from our perspective if a particular association is injurious to our spiritual life then we have to avoid it and in our spiritual life it could well be that the association of the Mayavadis as well as the association of Frithviks can be injurious to our bhakti. So we need to keep a distance from them but we don't have to go into making blanket judgments about any category of people in general. Thank you.