Bhagavad-gita and Modern Psychology 3 – Changing our mind by changing our relationship with the mind
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
Hare Krishna. So, I'm grateful to be here amongst all of you today. And today I'll speak on this topic of Bhagavad Gita in Modern Psychology.
And in the first half, I'll talk today about modern psychology and how the Bhagavad Gita is relevant in the light of whatever developments have happened in modern psychology, taken a broad pattern. And then later, I'll talk about in tomorrow's sessions, and the afternoon session, how the Bhagavad Gita, in many ways, takes us in the same direction which modern psychology is taking us, it takes us much further ahead. So, I'll start by about 2000 years ago, one of the formative thinkers in western thought systems was Aristotle.
And he said that man is a rational animal. And that became the defining credo, that what is it that differentiates us human beings from animals. We human beings are actually physically weaker than many animals.
We are physically slower than many animals. We physically don't have any formidable weapons like many animals have. So, yet we seem to be ruling over the other animals.
We seem to be ruling over the earth. So, what is it? So, his idea was it was our rationality. We can think rationally, we can think objectively, we can think deeper, we can think further.
And this rational capacity is what enables us to rise above the animal world. And yet, after that, there have been other thinkers pointed out that man, human beings are remarkably capable of irrationality. That if you consider the animal world, animals often get caught by their own desires.
A fish gets caught by a bait or a mouse gets caught by cheese in a mousetrap. But in these cases, the animals have excuses. Whatever they are attracted to, it looks like food.
And they don't know in advance that it is a trap. But we human beings in many cases don't have either of these excuses. If we consider smoking, a cigarette doesn't look like food to anyone.
And everyone knows that it is harmful. Cigarette might be a modern invention, but some kind of intoxication has always been there throughout history. So human beings are capable of remarkably irrational behavior, even to the extent of hurting and destroying oneself.
So Alexander Pope was another Western thinker and he said that man is the pride and the terror of the human race. He said that human beings at one level, they are the glory, at another level they are the jest. We have ruled the world, but then we are ruled by something inside us, which makes us do stupid and even self-destructive things.
So man is a riddle unto himself. Here the word man is used in a gender inclusive sense as it was used for many generations in the past. So it's a riddle unto oneself.
Why do we act the way we do? And as this thought process was going on further and further, one of the most influential psychologists of all time and especially of the last century was a person named Sigmund Freud. And Sigmund Freud said that actually we are not rational creatures. He said we are driven primarily by our emotionality.
So he envisioned that our emotions are like a vast turbulent ocean. And our rationality is like just a small canoe on top of that emotionality. And the canoe can move along and float along as long as the waves are peaceful.
But the canoe can't control the ocean. When the waves become stormy, the canoe will be overturned. And the destruction will result.
People will behave in remarkably irrational ways. And this idea, he talked about it in a very gloomy sense. He said that yes, we try to be rational but we just can't be rational.
Because the lower modes are very strong. But unfortunately this idea was taken by the modern culture, the modern advertising industry and the broad modern thought system at large. And the idea was that actually if you want to get people to do some things, you have to trigger their emotions.
So the idea that our emotions can easily overcome our reason, our rationality. And that's how we ultimately behave, irrationally, emotionally and sometimes self destructively. So what to do about this? At one time the idea was that whatever emotions are there inside you, you just have to use your reason to restrain those emotions.
But then some psychologist started saying that actually repressing emotions doesn't work. So Freud had the idea that repressing emotions causes many kinds of different problems. So it is in the 20th century that mental health problems started becoming prominent.
There are always some people who had mental health problems but the single medicine, single type of medicine that has sold more than any other medicine, the kind of medicine that didn't exist 50 years ago and is now the most sold medicine across the counter in the Western world is medicine for mental health. Whether it is for treating anxiety or for treating depression, antidepressants and tranquilizers, they didn't exist before the 1960s. And now millions and millions of people take them.
So we'll talk a little bit more about why this has happened. But overall the mind seems to be troubling people more and more and more. Psychologists historically tried various approaches to try to deal with it.
Initially the word psychology literally means Logos study. Psyche is the mind, the study of the mind. But then afterwards with psychology some people started thinking what is the mind? As the scientific approach became more and more prominent they said we don't know what is the mind.
Is there something called a mind also we don't know. So they started reducing psychology to the study of behavior. Because after all we can't see what is the mind.
So just focus on the behavior. But still another school of thought that came up was that actually our emotions inside are like a black box. Whatever is inside us is like a black box and somehow we have to manage what is there inside the box.
So they said that traditionally people are told repress your emotions. So there was a phase especially in American history in psychology where people were told just express your emotions and you will become free from them. And for example during the civil rights movement there was a lot of antipathy between the whites and the African Americans.
And at that time under the influence of this school of psychology some people said you just bring the whites and the blacks together in one room and let both of them vent their emotions. So the whites started speaking everything bad they felt about the blacks. African Americans started speaking everything bad they felt about them.
And by the end of it neither felt released. Actually both of them were on blows how to fight with each other. So the idea that just give vent to your emotions and you will become free from them that backfired very badly.
And this especially came in the area of sexuality. So basically if you look at our emotions prominently there is lust and there is anger. The Bhagavad Gita talks about three gates to hell.
What are those three gates? 16.21 he says. Now if you consider all three of these are basically emotions. Lust is basically the craving, the emotion associated with the object that promises a sensual gratification.
Greed is the craving with respect to things, possessions. And then anger is the emotion associated with not getting certain things that we want. If I don't get something I feel angry.
But all three of them are emotions. So the idea was just give vent to whatever you feel. And when this came in the realm of sexuality that led to what has been historically called the free sex revolution.
So there is no need for traditional morality. No need for the regulation of marriage. No need for anything.
Just freely express your sexual desires. I thought that that's how we will become peaceful. We will become the emotion that are troubling us.
We just have to give free vent to them. Now Sigmund Freud was one of the pioneers of this idea. And afterwards it captured the popular imagination.
So he was a brilliant person in one way. But he was also you could say a perverted genius. In his childhood he had some sexual attraction towards his mother.
And he generalized from his experience. And he said that all boys have sexual attraction towards their mothers. And all girls have sexual attraction towards their fathers.
And because of society's taboos this attraction is suppressed. And because this attraction is suppressed that's why when people grow up they have all kinds of mental problems. Now there was no empirical data to support this.
And there was later on many thinkers have critiqued the idea that whether his theories are really scientific. They were just his ideas. But somehow his ideas led to basically his theory led to the idea that there should be free sexual expression.
Free expression of emotions. And the result was chaos. Chaos.
The Harvard Medical School did a study of students. Of students in universe prominent universities in America. Where there is a free sex culture.
And they found these kids. The idea of free sex did not bring people closer to each other. It actually made people feel lonely and guilty.
Lonely because although their bodies came in contact with many other bodies. Their hearts remain untouched. There are no commitments in any relationships.
And guilty because they knew that they were using others. And others were using them. So basically the releasing of the emotion or the expression of those emotions.
In an unrestricted way. Going the opposite of what the tradition was saying. Did not result in anything positive.
Now in today's world psychology has many like any other branch. It has many different schools. But still the idea that in the tradition our emotions were repressed.
And in the contemporary world the emotion should be allowed to be expressed. That still prevails. And most people feel that.
There was one devotee in even first world country. Before he became a devotee. So he.
He was depressed. And he went to a psychologist. He was telling me all this after all this happened.
He said that. Why are you feeling depressed? Actually all that you need to do is. Just go out on a date.
And. Actually I don't feel like going out. And even if I don't want to go out.
Nobody comes with me. No no you just. Give a pep talk.
And then. The psychologist. So there is a whole network.
So he later discovered it. You know. We have a group of people.
And you can contact some of them. So what the psychologist would do is. Psychologist gives a pep talk.
In order to make the people feel good. But there is a lot of. Stuff inside that is not processed.
So he would call someone. And whoever would be the woman in that network. The woman would be paid.
To say yes and to flatter the boy. And then the boy would temporarily feel good. Oh I went to the session.
I felt good. I called someone. And she went out with me.
We did whatever we wanted. For a few moments they will feel high. But again they will come down.
So the idea was. That. Just give vent to your feelings.
And you will be alright. But. Our emotions.
We need to go beyond. This duality of. Repressing them.
And expressing them. We need to go beyond. Repressing and expressing.
To processing them. So now. In the modern world.
In the western world primarily. If you look at the. Still the mind is hurting people.
Like never before. At one level. In today's world.
People are much more physically comfortable. Than ever before in the past. Luxuries that were unimaginable for people.
Even a few. A few centuries ago. They are commonplace.
The air conditioning. There is cell phone. There is air travel.
All these are commonplace. At a physical level. There are comforts.
And here at a mental level. There is enormous distress. So much so that.
In the first world. Psychologists say. Sociologists say.
That one out of every four persons. Will have a serious mental health problem. In some part of.
Some course of their life. During the course of their life. And one out of every ten persons.
Will contemplate suicide. At some point in their lives. Now all living beings.
Struggle to live. Survival of the fittest. Struggle for existence.
These are the defining features of humanity. But yet. What we see in today's world.
Is that people are so distressed. That they are ready to destroy themselves. And another level.
If we see. That. At one level.
The mind's distress is very high. But at another level. The mind is being pandered to.
Much much more. Than ever before. What do you mean by the mind is being pandered to.
Who are the professionals today. Who are paid the most. In today's world.
Sorry. Marketing sales. Sports.
Yeah. Sports is a. Who is on the right track. Actors.
Basically. Entertainers. Now many people get paid.
Doctors get paid a lot. Lawyers get paid a lot. Software engineers get paid a lot.
But if you consider. At the right time in India. IPL is going on.
So the. In the Indian Premier League. The cricketers.
For 50 days of play. They get. They earn more than what.
Most Indians earn 50 years. And crores. So now.
Why is it. That entertainers are being paid so much. What.
Yeah. Now. Because people are looking for entertainment.
Yes. Now. Actually at one.
It's true. Actually at one level. Entertainment has always been a part of human society.
And it's a natural. Necessary part of human society. But.
The obsession with entertainment. That is there in today's world. That is unprecedented.
When people are ready to pay so much. Because. They feel.
And it is such a vital need. Sometimes when say. Shortage.
Droughts are there. Famines are there. At that time.
Some business people. They hoard grains. And the prices of the grains shoot up.
Shoot up. Shoot up. Now because.
It's a vital necessity. You can't live without food. So no matter what price is being charged.
People will pay it. And somehow get the food. So.
If we. If something is a necessity. Then whatever the price we pay.
It requires. We pay it. We pay it to get it.
So now. If you are paying a huge amount of money for entertainment. That means.
That we feel that entertainment is such a need. That whatever the cost. We are ready to pay for it.
So now. If we consider entertainment. Whose need is it? Does the body need entertainment? Whose need is it? It's the mind's need.
Body needs food. Water. Air.
So entertainment is something. Which is craved for by the mind. It is provided for.
Provided to the mind. So we can see at one level that. The mind's need.
Is being provided for like never before. And yet the mind is hurting us like never before. So where exactly are things going wrong? What exactly is happening that.
The mind is hurting us so much. And. Although we are doing so many things.
As I said. On one level. Entertainment is one way the mind need is being taken care of.
Another level is mental health medicines. They are also being provided for. But still the mind seems to be more and more distressed.
If we say oh life is so stressful. Life is so uncertain. Life is so troublesome.
Well. At one level. It's true.
At another level. Life has always been troublesome. In the world.
We say oh we may lose our job. We may lose this. Well okay.
In the past people felt they would lose their lives. Wars were there. So many uncertainties were there.
Sometimes we have this idea. There are people who are traditionally they say the past was so good. And people are proud of the progress.
The past was so bad. Some people tend to romanticize the past. Oh everything was so nice in the past.
Now modern times are so bad. And some people tend to demonize the past. This was happening in the past.
That was happening in the past. That was happening in the past. So.
Actually speaking. The world. In a sense.
Doesn't change much. The world is what it is always. Now we say oh there is so much cancer.
There is this disease. That disease. But.
If we consider in medieval times. There was a black plague. And.
One third of Europe was wiped out by that. One disease. So.
Now we talk about fear of terrorists. Terrorists may bomb up and blow up places. But when Genghis Khan attacked.
In the medieval times. There were two main population shocks. One was the black plague.
And the other was Genghis Khan. His attack. He just killed thousands and thousands and thousands of people.
Wherever he went. So basically. The point I am making here is.
That. The world. Has always been what it is.
In today's world. You may say. Oh this has happened.
This bomb exploded there. This plane crashed there. This happened there.
That happened there. It's just because the world is so interconnected. That we come to know about the distresses.
That troubles everywhere. Yes. In some ways.
The. Yes. We could say moral standards have gone down.
In some ways. Instability and insecurity is greater. But in many ways.
The world stays the same. It's not that. In the world.
Problems have suddenly shot up. The world. As the Bhagavad Gita says.
Is actually a place of distress always. So there is something else going on. Because of which.
The mind is so agitated. So to understand. Let's look at.
The Bhagavad Gita setting. The Bhagavad Gita also demonstrates. At it's very beginning.
How. The mind can attack a person. And not just an ordinary person.
A warrior. Arjuna is fully ready. To fight a war.
He has raised his bow. And come forward. In the middle of the battlefield.
As a central. As one of the primary. Warriors.
In his army. And one moment. He is ready.
To fight the war. With his bow raised. A few moments later.
If we consider the Bhagavad Gita. Has 700 verses. Which can be spoken.
If we recite them. Fast. We can recite the whole Gita.
In about. One and a half to two hours. So.
The first chapter. Has 46 verses. In the 20th verse.
It is described. That Arjuna has raised his hand. And is ready to fight.
By the 46th verse. Of the Gita. He has put his bow down.
There are tears in his eyes. His tears are flowing. As he says.
I can't fight. He has given up. So.
From the 20th verse. To the 46th verse. It probably takes.
Two to three minutes. To recite them. At the most.
Three to four minutes. Five minutes. To recite this Gita.
So. A warrior. Who had prepared.
For fighting the biggest war. Of his life. Who had prepared.
For that war. For years. Decades.
He performed. Extraordinary austerities. Gone to the heavens.
Got weapons. This was the biggest moment. Of his life.
And just. At that moment. Something happened.
And he collapsed. So. For a warrior.
To put aside his bow. Is like accepting defeat. And this warrior.
Was such a formidable warrior. Arjuna. That nobody.
Could have. Defeated him. And.
Yet. He was defeated. He put aside his bow.
So. What happened. The mind.
Attacked. The mind. Became.
Filled. With some emotions. Some thoughts.
Some ideas. And just went wild. Because of that.
And as it went wild. It just. He started giving different kind of this.
This reason. That reason. That reason.
But nothing seemed to make sense. And eventually. Just quit.
So. The Bhagavad Gita. Demonstrates.
How. The inner world. Is actually.
Much more. Consequential. In the outer world.
We focus a lot. On the outer world. And making things.
Better in the outer world. And. Most of technology.
Has focused. On. Improving things.
In improving the outer world. But. The improved things.
Cannot help us. If we do not have. Improved thoughts.
And. How to improve our thoughts. That the modern education system.
Doesn't talk about much. That modern science. Modern technology.
None of them. Talk about it much. So.
Arjuna. Had. A powerful weapon.
Celestial Mogandiva. He had great skills. He had the best setting.
For exhibiting his skills. He actually. Not just an exhibition.
It was a vital need. For establishing Dharma. And yet.
We crumble. In that time. So.
In. A broad sense. Of parallels.
Just as today. We see people. Afflicted.
By their minds. Similarly. The Bhagavad Gita.
Begins. By. Talking about.
A person. Who was. Afflicted.
By the mind. The specific. Causes.
Of the mental distress. May be different. For us.
We may be. Oh. I lost my job.
I. Had a separation in my relationship. Oh. This went wrong.
That went wrong. For us. The specific.
Cause of the mental distress. May be. Something else.
For Arjuna. His mental distress. Came from a. Ethical crisis.
Should I fight or should I not fight? So. That. Itself is.
A philosophical. Discussion. Which we can go into.
Elsewhere. If required. But the point here is.
Essentially. What happened. The.
Principle. Of. The mind.
Attacking. And hurting. And disempowering.
The body. Or the person. That.
Is common. And. How.
Does the Gita. Address this. We talk about.
Emotionality. And rationality. Emotionality is.
Our capacity. To feel. Oh.
This is like this. This is like that. You just feel.
Emotions. Emotions are relationships. Rationality.
Is our capacity. To analyze. Things.
So. The. Theme.
Which. The first section of this. Bhagavad-Gita and modern psychology.
Is. There. Anything.
Beyond. Emotionality. And rationality.
Cause. In modern psychology. At one side.
They said that. Rationality should be supreme. We should use.
Our rational intelligence. And control. Our animal emotions.
Man is a rational animal. But then later they said. This kind of control.
is actually repression. You should not repress, you should express yourself. But expressing itself has led to a chaos of a different kind.
So should we go along with our emotionality or should we go along with our rationality? Actually the Bhagavata says that we should go along with something beyond both of these. Beyond our emotionality and beyond our rationality is our spirituality. The spirituality refers to the essence of who we are.
And to the extent we understand that we are beyond the emotions that we experience, that we are beyond the reasons, the reasoning that we do, to that extent we can analyze and act appropriately. We can both use our reasoning faculty and we can use our emotional faculty. So I would like to do a simple thought experiment to illustrate what I mean by talking about our, that we are beyond our emotionality and our rationality.
So all of you, wherever you are, sit comfortably and close your eyes. Closing your eyes, now you can take three deep breaths with me. One, two, three.
Now with your eyes closed, try to see what you see in front of you. Because your eyes are closed, you can't see physically what is in front of you. But still, there is something like an inner screen on which you may see various things.
You may see this temple room, you may see your home, you may see your car, you may see your phone, you may see your loved ones. You may see various images coming and going on that inner screen or you might just see a dull haze of various colors on that screen. But irrespective of whatever you see on the screen, now try to take a step back and catch sight of who it is that is looking at that inner screen.
There is this inner screen, but who is the inner seer who is looking at that inner screen? Take a step back and try to look at that inner seer. No matter how many steps you take back, the inner seer steps back with you. What you are looking for is what you are looking with.
You, that inner seer, are the soul. The inner screen is the mind. You can take one deep breath and then you can open your eyes.
So basically, as in psychology considers the inner world to be like a black box. But the simple thought exercise which we did, we can understand that inside us there are two things. There is whatever you are seeing right now, actually this is the outer scene and we don't directly interact with the outer scene.
The outer scene gets imprinted inside us as an image on the inner screen and we respond to whatever happens on the inner screen. So sometimes this inner screen just shows us something else. We are looking at someone and then our thoughts go somewhere else.
Our thoughts go somewhere else and at that time, hey what happened? What I am thinking about? The other person may tell us, come back, come back, where are you? Earth to you, earth to you. What happens over there? The outer scene is as it is but the inner screen has gone somewhere else. So inside us there is the inner screen and there is the inner seer.
So most systems of psychology, they just equate everything into one. And inside us, there is something, there is emotionality, rationality, but how does it all come together? So yes, we have an emotional side, we have a rational side. But beyond that, we are different from both of these.
The Bhagavad Gita uses the word, mana, buddhi and ahankara. That mind, intelligence and ego to refer to the components of the subtle world. The subtle body, so there are three levels of reality, the physical reality, the mental reality and the spiritual reality.
So we want to see outside the sense perception, the physical reality. In what is inside us, what acts as a medium, a link between the physical and spiritual reality, that is the subtle reality. And beyond that is the soul.
Now in the subtle reality, sometimes we differentiate between, as I said, the mind, intelligence and ego. But this differentiation is primarily a matter of nomenclature. It's a functional difference.
It's not a structural difference. What do I mean by functional and structural? So consider, this is a computer. The hardware is there, the software is there, the user is there.
So the body is like the hardware, the mind is the software, the subtle body is the software and the soul is the user. Now in this software, we may have multiple levels of software. We might have the OS, which is the fundamental level of the operating system.
Without that, nothing functions. Then beyond the operating system, we may have some pre-installed programs or we may have some user installed programs. And then along with that, we may have some viruses.
Now the operating system, the desired programs and the unwanted programs, all three of them are essentially nothing but digital codes. They're all programs. If you look at them technically, they're just codes of 010, 0101.
They're coded in a particular way so that they perform a particular function. So structurally, there's no difference between the operating system, the application that we, the programs we are using and the unwanted viruses that are there. Functionally, they work in different ways.
So similarly, the ego, the intelligence and the mind, they are structurally not different. All three of them are subtle body. Functionally, they work in different ways.
So when we talk about the emotionality and the rationality, basically we are talking about the mind and the intelligence. So these, we could say, are two features of the subtle body. So in some people, the emotionality is more than the rationality.
Some people, the rationality is more than the emotionality. So that's why some people are more emotional. Some people are more rational.
But essentially, the people are different from their emotionality and their rationality. Their emotionality and rationality are basically features of the subtle body. So it's like we have certain computers.
Certain computers may be good for certain purposes. Some computers are designed to be very lightweight, very low cost, and they're used primarily for surfing the net or just doing some light data processing, writing some documents, something like that. Some computers may be designed for doing heavy, say, video editing work and doing a lot of heavy data processing.
So they are structured in different ways. So they are both computers essentially, but they function in different ways. Similarly, rationality and emotionality are features of the mind.
So the word mind can mean many different things. The word mind can refer to one component within the subtle body, the mind, intelligence, and ego. The word mind can generically also be used to refer to the whole subtle body.
So there's mind, matter, and there's matter, mind, and consciousness. So matter is physical reality, mind is subtle reality, and consciousness is spiritual reality. So both can be understood in two different ways.
The important thing is not the nomenclature that we use. The important thing is the functionality that we understand. Once we understand the functionality, then we can understand what makes us function properly and what prevents us from functioning properly.
If you consider the computer, say, somebody has repeatedly visited a particular site on the computer, say, they visited Bollywood.com. They keep visiting it again and again and again. And then now they come to a spiritual program, and then they hear, oh, there's a book, there's a Bhagavad Gita, I want to know about it. And they go on their Google browser, they type Bhagavad Gita.
As soon as they type B, what happens? Bollywood comes up. Why? Because that's what is the preference stored in the computer. So similarly for us, in the subtle body, certain preferences, certain inclinations are stored, and whichever inclinations are stored, they pop up.
So in some of us, the inclinations can be of different kinds. Some of us, we may be more emotional. So we think more in terms of emotions.
Some of us, we think more in terms of reason. But essentially, these two are resources. And there is a source who is using these resources.
And that source is the soul. So the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna on one side, he's saying, oh, how can I fight? How can I tolerate the death of my loved ones? But he also thinks, how can I not fight? Oh, there my loved ones will die if I don't fight. If I fight, but if I don't fight, then my loved ones here, they will suffer.
So he is, he's caught in what should I do? What should I not do? He does some reasoning, he feels some emotions, he's not able to figure out. The Bhagavad Gita solution begins by telling Arjuna that you are different from all this. That you are the soul.
And the soul is different from whatever emotions are being felt. And whatever reasoning, reasoning is valuable, emotions are also valuable. But they both need to be directed towards some higher purpose.
And that higher purpose is what the Bhagavad Gita reveals. And we see at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna has become calm, he has become composed. So the Bhagavad Gita's knowledge helped him to deal with the distress that his mind was creating.
Now how exactly the Bhagavad Gita helped him to deal with the distress, that we won't go into the technicalities of that knowledge. But in tomorrow's and day after session, we'll talk about how the Bhagavad Gita's broad principles help us to manage our inner world. So I'll summarize what I spoke today.
I spoke today about the theme of Bhagavad Gita and modern psychology. And in that I started by first talking about how firstly nature when we observe, there is something distinctive about human beings. Although we are not physically stronger or faster than other animals, still we are ruling them.
So man is, what some people thought, rational animal. Rationality is what distinguishes us. But then we are capable of terrible irrationality, as seen in self-destructive habits.
And so some thinkers thought that actually we are not really rational, we think ourselves, but there's an emotionality that is like an ocean that will overthrow the canoe. And as the current century started to come, in the previous century, in this century, on one level people are more and more physically comfortable, but still they are mentally distressed. The mind is hurting people more and more in terms of mental health problems.
Conversely, we are giving medication to treat the mind, we are offering entertainment to binder to the mind. But something seems to be going wrong. So some thinkers thought that traditionally our emotions were suppressed, and that's why mental health problems come.
So now let us just give unrestricted expression to the emotions. But that resulted only in further agitation. It did not lead to any inner peace, any inner contentment.
Society has become more in terms of anger and lust, the unwanted expression has led to problems. So what is, what is it that, are we emotional, are we rational? We moved from the current setting to the Bhagavad Gita setting, where there also a warrior was overpowered by his mind. And thus he ended up being incapable of fighting at the moment of the greatest fight of his life.
So the Bhagavad Gita begins by telling us that our reasoning and our emotions both can be guides, but we are something beyond both of them. We did a thought experiment about the outer seal, the inner screen and the inner seer. So the inner screen, the Bhagavad Gita says, is a subtle level of reality.
And subtle level of reality essentially is the interface between the physical and the spiritual just as a software is the interface between the body and the soul. A software can have different features, different types of softwares can be there. The operating system, the installed software, the unwanted softwares, like that, but they are functionally different, structurally they are the same.
Similarly, mind, intelligence, ego, they are functionally different, structurally they are the same. We can broadly correlate the mind with the emotional faculty, the intelligence with the rational faculty. But these two faculties, they are themselves not good or bad, just like some computers are designed for doing particular purposes.
So emotional faculty is useful in some cases, rational faculty is useful in some cases, but both need to be directed by someone. Someone who is beyond the two and they should be directed to some purpose which is beyond the two. So the identity of that being which is beyond the two, that we discuss, that is the soul, the inner seer of the inner screen and the outer screen.
And how it is to be directed, to what purpose it is to be directed, that we will discuss in our future sessions. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Are there any questions or comments? What exactly is chitta? It's a little technical, let me try to explain this. The atma has a feature of sat, chit, ananda. So chit means consciousness.
So consciousness is the innate feature of the soul. Now chitta refers to embodied consciousness. Consciousness that comes into the body.
At one level it comes into the body, the consciousness that is channeled into the body. Say like a child is at home comfortably, mother is nearby, but the child is watching a horror movie. And the child's consciousness is completely glued to the horror movie.
The child is here, the face is here, the TV screen is over there. Now what is happening on the TV screen, the child's consciousness is completely related to that. And the child experiences emotions not based on where he is, or where she is, but based on what is happening on that screen.
So similarly for us, we are like the soul, who is different from this world. But the soul's consciousness is caught in matter. Purushaha prakriti sthohi, bhunte prakriti jaan gunaan.
So prakriti sthohi, the soul has become situated in material nature. Like that, our consciousness has got projected into the world. And this projected consciousness is called as chitta.
So chitta is like the consciousness that is locked on the screen of the TV. And that's why in the Bhagavad Gita, although Krishna first says that the soul, consciousness is a feature of the soul, avinashita tadviddhi, he says in 2.17. But later, in the 13th chapter he says, iccha dvesha sukham dukkham sanghatas chetanadhati, etad kshetram samasena savikaram udharatam. He's talking about the Sankhya philosophy in 13.6 and 7. So 13.7 he's saying that chetana, consciousness is a kshetravikara.
Kshetra and kshetragya. Kshetra is the body and kshetragya is the knower of the body, the soul. Kshetravikara means transformation of the kshetra.
So now he's saying that chetana, consciousness is a transformation of the material nature. Now how can we say that consciousness is actually spiritual? So how can consciousness be a transformation of material nature? Krishna is here talking about projected consciousness. See, all over the world, people feel hungry.
We all are living in a particular body, we need food. But all over the world, when people feel hungry and think of food, they may think of different things. A South Indian may think of idli sambhar.
A Punjabi may think of paratha. A Gujarati may think of a dhokla. Now why this? The food is a biological need, but different people think of different things.
Why? Because the consciousness is transformed according to the kind of material nature it is placed. So if the consciousness is placed in a South Indian body, then when the desire for food comes, it thinks of say idli sambhar. When the consciousness is placed in a Punjabi body, then that consciousness and a thought of food thinks of say paratha.
So basically chitta refers to the embodied consciousness. What this means is, let's say this child is watching a movie. The child is so horrified, this is going wrong, that is going wrong, that is going wrong.
Now the mother sees, the child is watching a horror movie and the mother wants to comfort the child. But the child is so caught in the movie, if the mother puts her hand on the child's shoulder, the child starts screaming. The child is completely caught in that.
So what the mother does is, gradually, if there is a second remote for the TV, she takes that remote and starts changing the TV channel. And maybe if you have a recording of some happy moment the child has enjoyed with the mother, they have gone for a picnic, they have had some fun, they are playing together. Mother starts playing that on the TV.
Child starts saying, who is this? Looks nice. I think I know her. And child starts looking at it and the child gets intrigued.
And slowly, the child starts feeling peaceful. Oh, I know her, she is so nice. And as the child starts feeling more peaceful, more connected, then when the mother puts the hand on the child, the child will just hug the mother.
And the horror movie will get over. So similarly for us, Krishna is right next to us in our own bodies. He is there next to us in our own hearts.
But we are so caught in the material world that our consciousness is projected here. And so we just can't perceive the presence of Krishna. So that's why Krishna manifests in the material world.
He manifests as a deity, he manifests as scriptures, he manifests as the holy name, he manifests through the devotees. And to the extent we tune our consciousness on this, to that extent our consciousness becomes spiritualized. So generally people say to become spiritual you should go inside, inside yourself.
But right now if we try to go inside ourselves, the first thing we encounter is the mind. And the mind is wild. So most of the time people say if you go into solitude, be peaceful.
But most of the time when we go into solitude, that's when we get agitated. Now sociologists have found when do people get worried the most? It is when they have nothing to do. During their leisure time, people get wild.
During our leisure time, our mind works overtime. This person said like this, went wrong, that went wrong. So we can't very easily go inwards directly.
So what happens? We go outwards to where the spiritual is present. So that's why we come to a temple, we chant the holy names. By this, gradually our consciousness starts becoming spiritualized.
And when the consciousness becomes spiritualized thus, then we start tuning into the presence of Krishna also. So it is at the spiritual level of consciousness that the chitta aspect of the atma can be perceived when the atma is perceived. But till then what we can perceive is the chitta.
So mat-chitta-sarva-durgani-mat-prasadat. Chitta, we are going to perceive this material world itself. But in the material world, we try to perceive the stimuli connected with Krishna.
So chitta basically refers to the inner screen and the outer scene. So it primarily refers to the inner screen. So chitta refers to the inner seer's seeing faculty, capacity for consciousness.
The inner screen is the chitta. So all that we experience right now in the embodied state is the inner screen. We can just think that there is an inner seer, but we can't perceive the inner seer.
So even the outer world comes in the inner scene. So basically when we become purified, right now when we bring Krishna in the outer scene, then he comes in the inner screen. We come in front of the deities and take darshan, then we think of Krishna.
But as we become more and more purified, then even when Krishna is not there in the outer scene, he will be there in the inner screen. And that is how our spiritualization of consciousness will happen. Chitta is inner screen as you say, but is it like beyond mind, intelligence and ego? We have three subtle substances, but where does it fit in? Is it, this is the fourth thing in the subtle level? Not exactly.
As I said, the differences between these are functional. They are not exactly structural. You consider, even in the Bhagavad Gita, in the seventh chapter, Krishna says, bhumirāpo nalavāyu khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca āhāṅkārāyate me bhinnā prakṛta-raṣṭhā.
Then he talks about mind, intelligence, ego as the three components of the subtle body. But then, if we consider in the third chapter, when he is talking about the inner hierarchy, he is talking about indriyāni mano buddhir, indriyāni parānyāhur indriyābhya parammana, manasas tu parā buddhe, yo buddhe paratastu sa. In 3.42, he says, above the body are the senses, above the senses is the mind, above the mind is the intelligence, and beyond the intelligence is the soul proper.
So, there he doesn't talk about the ego. In the third canto of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, when they talk about the subtle body, he also says that antahkarana, karana refers to senses. So, antahkarana can be many different things.
So, there are subtle senses also that are present in the world. So, let me drive a point over here. Some people talk also about, in the yoga school, the Bhāgavatam and the Bhagavad Gita, they talk about the inner world, drawing from Sāṅkhya.
If you go into yoga, they also talk about, what do you call it, akāśika śarīra, the subtle level. And then some people talk about the akāśika record, where our past karma is stored. In the eleventh canto of the Uddhava Gītā, they talk about 24 elements of material nature.
So, there, it's at one place they analyze 16 elements, another place they analyze 24 elements. So, Krishna makes a comment to Uddhava over there. So, at that time, Vishwanath Jagadguru expresses commentary that the material nature can be analyzed in different ways.
And by such analysis, the sages show their creativity. And if such analysis brings their thinking towards me, then it is beneficial. So, I would say the specific categorization will vary.
Just like if you consider map. Now, we can have a map of America, which is a political map. We can have a, we can have a topographical map, which talks about rivers and land.
Political map will talk about boundaries. We may have a road map, which primarily talks about the roads. We may have a mineral map, which talks only about primarily what is below the earth.
So, these are basically models. And there is, of course, some similarity in the maps, but there is some dissimilarities because each map is meant for a particular purpose. So, in my understanding, chitta would refer to the way the subtle body is functioning.
So, chitta is a way of referring to the consciousness as it is manifested at the subtle level. So, it is not a fourth component apart from mind, intelligence and ego. Rather, it is if we consider the subtle body to be like the inner screen.
So, chitta can be used to refer generically to our inner screen. So, it refers to the subtle level of reality at a generic level. Just like software is a generic word referring to all three.
There can be operating systems, installed software, viruses. They are all software. So, chitta is like a generic term, which refers to all of it.
Chitta, we could say, is like an equivalent of the subtle body. But, in some cases, chitta may be used in somewhat different sense. So, broadly, chitta refers to embodied consciousness.
And that embodied consciousness works through the mind, intelligence and ego in different ways. So, it could be the substratum or the combination of all of them, which are working together. Yes, please.
I have two questions. First one is, for mental problems that you said, patients out there. Patients are material.
Mental problems are related to the mind is subtle. So, how can something that is material treat something that is subtle? So, if people take mental health medicines, the mind is subtle, whereas the medicines are physical, gross. How can the gross treat the subtle? The mind is at the level of interface between the physical body and the soul.
So, in some yoga schools, yoga itself is one school of thought, but in that also there are different schools. So, in some commentators on the Patanjali Yoga Sutra, they talk about the mind at three levels. This is the outer mind, the middle mind and the mind.
So, the outer mind is that part of the mind which interfaces with the physical body. The middle mind is a subtle level of reality. The inner mind is what is capable of spiritual consciousness.
It is more and more connected with the soul. So, now if we consider, although the mind is subtle, the mind's emotions are affected by physical stimuli. Say for example, if you are agitated, our breath starts becoming faster.
If you consciously slow down our breath, the mind calms down. So, the breath is a physical activity. Breathing is a physical activity, but it decreases the agitation of the mind because the mind is not, although it is another category, but it is not completely disconnected.
It is connected. So, physical stimuli affect the mind. The problem is not to say that physical stimuli affect the mind.
It is just normal experience. But that way, we eat good food, it tastes good, we feel happy. So, physical stimuli, it is affecting the mental state.
So, similarly, if we consider laughter, at one level, to talk about say this state of inner mind, outer mind and middle mind. Now, sometimes if you consider laughter, sometimes you go to some relative's or friend's house and they have a small child. You want to have fun with that child.
You start tickling the belly of that child. When you tickle the belly of that child, the child will start laughing. Now, the child laughs, is that laughter happiness? It's laughing.
That laughter is not happiness. If it were happiness, all of us want to be happy. So, we could all have our own perpetual tickling machines.
Tickle, tickle, tickle, tickle, be happy for the rest of your life. Happiness is not that simple. And yet, somebody who is crying and they tickle them, they will start laughing at that time and they forget they are crying.
So, the physical affects the mental. The mistake is to think that the physical and the mental are only the same. So, a physical stimulation may stimulate laughter and that laughter may make some people forget their distress, temporarily at least.
So, the child is crying, you tickle, then the child may stop crying and start laughing. But, happiness is not reducible to the laughter. Sometimes some people will be laughing, but internally they may be distressed.
So, the physical does affect the mental. Because, ultimately we are living in a physical body. So, all the emotions that we experience, they will have a physical expression.
For example, if I am laughing because I hear some mundane joke or if I hear some joke in a spiritual class, that laughter is going to be expressed through my vocal cord, the same vocal cord, that laughter is going to appear on the same face. Similarly, whatever emotions we experience, they are going to create some effect on the brain. In the brain, they say that when we are happy, certain chemicals are secreted.
The brain is very complicated and it is not so simple. But, when we are happy, certain chemicals are secreted in the brain. When we are angry, certain other chemicals are secreted in the brain.
When we are depressed, certain other chemicals are secreted. So, now what medication tries to do is, if we are worried, at that time a certain chemical is secreted. And when we are peaceful, certain chemical is secreted.
What they try to do is, take some medication by which the secretion of the chemical, the enzyme that secretes, that is secreted when we get agitated, when we get worried, decrease that, suppress that. And the enzyme that feels peaceful, it will increase that. Now, again this is a very simple bare bones analysis, the brain works in a much more complicated way.
But, this can help to some extent. Because, just like if somebody is sitting glum, come on, cheer up, smile. If they smile, they will feel little better.
People say that you just sit in a erect posture, you feel better. But, suppose say I am sitting on this chair and there are nails on this chair. And the nails are piercing me.
Now, whether I am sitting slouched or I am sitting erect, the nails are still going to pierce me. Isn't it? That physical reality is not going to change. So, if there is clearly documented shortage of certain chemicals in the brain, which are meant to be normally produced, and they are not getting produced for some reason, and that is impeding the functioning, then taking some medication can help.
I know one devotee who just couldn't sleep for several months. And nobody could find out why he was not able to sleep. And finally, he went to a doctor, expert doctor and said, actually there is a chemical which is meant to promote sleep.
And that is short in your body. You give some medication, from that night you will be able to sleep peacefully. That is not exactly a sleep inducing medicine.
That is not advisable on a regular basis. For people who have insomnia, they sometimes take it. But that is not, as a regular dependence it is not advisable.
But if something which is essentially to be produced in the brain is not being produced, then treating it with some medicine is good. But just the inability to deal with our emotions and trying to medicate away those emotions, that is unhealthy. Did I answer your question? Yes.
Is the non-projected consciousness in our body? Well, the soul is different from the body. So, you could say the soul is presently present, is there in our body. In that sense, the non-projected consciousness is also there within us.
But the soul is not physical. So, to exactly reduce it to a physical location, we may do it for representation or conceptualization. But the soul is transcendental.
That is why the example is given, two examples the Bhagavata gives. It says first that just as the sky is present everywhere, but it doesn't mix with the rest of the world. If you consider sky to be like amorphous presence, it is present everywhere.
But it doesn't mix. Similarly, the consciousness is present everywhere, but it doesn't mix. And the next example it gives is, the sun is at one place, but it illumines the whole world, all the universe you could say.
Similarly, the soul is present in one place, but it illumines the whole world. And in this way, the soul is separate and the soul is still the activator of the body. So, you could say the non-projected consciousness, the soul is essentially the non-projected consciousness.
The soul is present in the body. But the soul, you cannot reduce it to the body. The soul is transcendental.
So, the non-projected consciousness is the soul. The projected consciousness is the soul's consciousness being channeled into the body. Subtle body goes with the soul.
Yes. It's just like say you are using one computer and then you sell away that computer. Then you go into another computer and then you log on.
As soon as you log on with your Gmail ID, all your preferences, all your favorites, all of them get transferred over there. Similarly, the computer is like the physical body. The soul goes into a new body, like the soul logs in.
And all of that is stored in the mind. And that also comes with it. Yes.
Impressions are stored in the subtle body. Yes. Agitated.
Yes. Thank you. You are told today what I was going to speak in tomorrow's class.
So, tomorrow the theme I was going to speak is how entertainment is, I was going to talk about mindfulness, how mindfulness helps and how mindfulness must fall short. Mindfulness is very big. But what I was going to speak was how entertainment is like a painkiller.
It helps. But it helps not by curing, but covering the pain. And what we need is not entertainment.
Okay, like a patient is sick, entertainment is good. Sorry, when a patient is sick, painkiller may be necessary because the pain is too bad. But that is not the complete thing.
So, sometimes, so entertainment is fine sometimes once in a while. It's like a painkiller. But only painkiller is bad.
So, the real curative medicine is not for the mind, is not entertainment, but enlightenment. So, that is the curative medicine. We'll talk about that tomorrow.
One last question. As devotees, do we expect too much out of the devotee when we chant? Any serious version of chant that might be of any problem. But from what I understand, the medicine is easier to take care of.
So, as devotees, we try to take it for granted that the holy name should cure everything. There are important principles, foundations that have to be understood. I want to finish at nine o'clock.
Can I answer this question? It will take around five to ten minutes at least. Okay, finish this. Thank you.
So, the material and the spiritual are two different levels of reality. Let us start first with radical difference and then we'll come to connection. See, if my hand gets fractured, do I expect that by chanting Hare Krishna, the fracture will get healed? Yeah, I mean, Krishna can do anything.
Krishna can heal the fracture just by my chanting also. But that is not the normal way in which Krishna functions. And that is not the devotee's mood that we demand.
Krishna, I'm chanting. So, now you must fix my hand. No, a devotee has a mood of service.
The mood of service means you go to a doctor. And this is not just because we are not advanced devotees. If we see in the Vedic tradition, there is a whole treatment system of Ayurveda.
And the system of Ayurveda is basically about the diseases are because of some material imbalances in the body. And to treat those diseases, we need to cure those material imbalances. That means a material problem has a material solution.
Now, of course, that material solution can be taken with spiritual consciousness. Traditionally, it was understood that Vishnu is the curer. We take the medicine, we remember Vishnu.
But there is a material mechanism also which acts over there. So, now another example of this. After hearing the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna fought the Kurukshetra war.
And he won the Kurukshetra war. Now, did he win that war by the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita that he studied? Or did he win that war by the knowledge of archery that he had learnt throughout his life? Both. Yes, both.
Now, the Bhagavad Gita itself did not teach him archery. Archery he had learnt throughout his life. The Bhagavad Gita gave him direction or inspiration about how and why to use his archery skills.
So, the material and the spiritual are not replaceable, but they are complementary. With the spiritual directing the material. Now, we often talk about material problems and spiritual solutions.
What it means is that it is a solution that is implemented with spiritual consciousness. It is not that the solution itself is solely spiritual. Actually, Prabhupada at one level said, chant Hare Krishna to be happy.
But then he also talked about the material situation socially and how to address it. One way he suggested addressing it was through Varanashram. Now, Varanashram is a social organization.
It is a material organization. Varanashram can be spiritualized when it is done for the pleasure of Krishna. But otherwise, it is shamai vahi kevalam, as Bhagavatam says.
So, ultimately when we are functioning at the material level, there is some material system that is required for functioning. And that material system, if it is done with spiritual consciousness, if it is done with spiritual purpose, then it can be spiritualized. So, having understood this broad, that there is material and there is spiritual, now we can say somebody can chant Hare Krishna and Krishna can provide food for that person.
Yes, Krishna can provide that food. But that food will still be something material. Somebody has to provide, through someone.
Sometimes Krishna may just like Durvasa Muni and his followers, Krishna internally satisfied them. And they started belching. Now, again belching is a physical phenomenon.
Somehow Krishna filled them internally, so that there is a physical sensation of fullness which came as belching. But in general, the way the tradition works is, that there is a physical and there is the spiritual. And even those who are spiritual, they work at the physical level to deal with the physical.
So, if there is a disease, go to a doctor and take the treatment. So, now with respect to mental health problems, we have to see what works. If we consider that there is a doctor and there is a patient.
Each patient is different. And the doctor's purpose is not just to give the medicine. Doctor's purpose is to get the patient cured.
So, now chanting is extremely powerful. And tomorrow in mindfulness, I will talk about how chanting works. And last session will be especially about direct practice of bhakti.
But if somebody's mind is so agitated that they are not able to focus on the holy, then the chanting may not calm the mind. Recently one devotee was asking, it seems that first we tell people when they come first, first when I came, I was told that you chant and you will be able to control the mind. But now I am chanting, now I am being told, you should control your mind and chant.
So, what is it really? Is it that chanting will control the mind or I have to control my mind and chant? Actually it is both. Now to do anything in life, we need some amount of control of the mind. Even if somebody wants to watch a cricket match.
Now cricket match is going on, but at that time, I want to watch this movie also, I want to watch this song also, I want to see this also. Or I get distracted by things. You can't even enjoy a cricket match.
So, to do anything, some level of mental control is required. But the speciality of the holy name is that it will purify us. And when it purifies us, then whatever is driving the mind agitated, that will be calmed down.
That is how the chanting will address the agitation of the mind at the most foundational level. But whether it will work immediately when the mind is agitated, we have to see from person to person. Because ultimately, the holy name has to enter into our consciousness.
If we are so agitated that the holy name is not entering into the consciousness, then we may have to see what will calm the consciousness down. We may chant every day, but sometimes, some days, if we hear an inspiring class about the holy name and then we sit down for chanting, we will chant better. What has happened? The buddhi has been nourished and when the mind wanders, we get the mind back at that time.
So, it is not that the holy name doesn't have Krishna's all potencies, but it is that we have to follow the standard process for dealing with different issues. And sometimes, a person is very hurt. There is a terrible misunderstanding between two people and they need to talk properly.
They need to maybe talk with a counselor or talk through a counselor to each other. Otherwise, chant and the problem will go away. Well, okay, chanting is fine, but you are chanting, chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
How dare he do that? Hare Krishna. How dare he do that? Hare Krishna. How dare? Hare Hare.
We are not chanting at that time, actually. So, there are just as physical wounds may need to be physically healed apart from chanting, sometimes emotional wounds also need emotional healing. So, if I have been hurt by someone terribly, at that time, I may need just a sympathetic ear to hear.
And that person understands me, empathizes with me, comforts me. And then I chant, I can take care of chanting. Now, if there is no one, I may have a physical wound and say there is no physical help available.
At that time, I may just chant Krishna's name and I try to transcend. Okay, this wound is there. I can't do anything, so I just chant Hare Krishna and transcend it.
Try to transcend it. It's possible. Similarly, some emotional wounds are there.
There is no solution available. We may transcend it. We just try to take shelter of Krishna.
But we have to see what works. Phalena Parichayati. The consciousness has to move towards Krishna.
So, if there is a severe physical wound, which is stopping me from moving towards Krishna, my consciousness has to move towards Krishna. Then address that physical issue and then move the consciousness towards Krishna. Say, like somebody has a lot of backache, back pain, and they sit on the floor.
And they are sitting on the floor and chanting. Well, they are just thinking of the pain. They are not thinking of Krishna.
They sit on a chair, sit on a cushion and then chant. So, it's not that we have to consider the physical or the mental as something that has to be rejected or neglected in order to connect with Krishna. As long as we have the body and the mind, the body and the mind also have needs that need to be addressed.
So, the holy nail is the ultimate cure. And it cures when our consciousness connects with the holy nail. And if there is a physical or a mental obstacle, which is preventing us from connecting, then the physical and mental obstacle needs to be addressed.
And once we address it, then the connection becomes stronger. Does that answer your question? So, thank you very much. Thank you.
Let's thank Prabhuji again for a wonderful class. It's so nice to see all of you also come on a weekday evening after a long day. And also especially the children here to see them attend this seminar.
We hope you'll come again tomorrow. Sometimes we feel it's a weekday and it's very difficult, it gets tiring. But you will agree with me that after listening.