Bhagavatam cosmology 3 – Eclipses, earth-sun distance, Vedic planetarium and other difficult issues

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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.

Now, I'll discuss some remaining controversial issues with respect to the cosmos. So, there are many, I'll discuss five of them over here. So, one by one we'll discuss these.

Now, one of the things that people ask that the modern understanding and the Vedic understanding of eclipses. So, are eclipses caused by Rahu? And it seems like a childhood fairy tale that some monster comes and eats the sun or eats the moon. And then what happens? Does he excrete the sun or the moon or how does it come out? So, people make fun of this.

But actually, if you look at the Vedic explanation, it's much more sophisticated. So, let's try to understand this. So, this is the current scientific understanding of how eclipses happen.

So, we have the sun, the moon and the earth. So, when the moon comes in between the sun and the earth, then the part of the moon where the moon's shadow will fall, that will not see the sun. And that is called a solar eclipse.

And now, those two images are brought together over here. The moon cannot be at both places at the same time. But if the moon is on the other side, so, when the lunar eclipse will happen is that the moon we will not be able to see because the moon basically gets the reflection, reflects the light from the sun.

And if the earth is blocking the moon, then the sun's light doesn't reach the moon. And that's why the moon, we can't see it. So, that is how eclipses happen.

And that's the modern understanding. And at least from a functional perspective, it's accurate. We are able to predict eclipses with a substantial level of accuracy using this model.

So, now, what is the Vedic understanding? So, this becomes a little more subtle and sophisticated. So, you will see the sun is in the middle and you see one big circle around it. That is the path of the earth going around the sun.

That's a big circle. But now, if you see on the right side, let's look at the right side. You see the moon and there is a circle going around the moon.

So, the significant point is that the moon's rotation is not, the moon's motion is not in the same plane as the sun's motion. So, yeah, the sun's plane is like this. Sun's motion is in this plane.

The moon's motion is in this plane. So, there is an angular dimension over there. So, now, what happens because of this is that only when, not only the three objects have to be in the same line, but everything also has to be in the same plane.

So, eclipses will happen only when all of them are in the same plane. And you will see these two happen. They are called as nodes.

You see in the top and below you will see the two nodes. So, only when the objects are at that particular location and when the earth is in a nodal point and then the moon comes in between the earth and the sun, then an eclipse will occur. Now, to take this forward, that nodal plane or nodal point is significant because of a particular reason.

So, now, the Surya Siddhanta describes the location of Rahu and Ketu. So, Rahu and Ketu, they are non-lined reflecting planets. So, they are not visible to us.

Just like we discussed, so much in the universe is not visible. So, Rahu and Ketu is also not visible. But precisely their location is at the nodes.

So, the place where the moon's plane and the earth's plane intersect. That is the place where Rahu and Ketu are there. So, in that sense, both Rahu and the alignment of sun, moon and earth both happen at the same time.

So, the alignment of sun, moon and earth is that cosmic explanation is not denied. But when that happens, Rahu and Ketu also happen to be there at that time. So, now, that's why both explanations can work in parallel.

I'll just explain this further, then we'll have questions about it. So, what happens is that the explanations here are not contradictory, they are complementary. Complementary means both explanations can work at the same time.

And now somebody might say that actually then Rahu and Ketu are not needed only. Anyway, the sun, moon and earth, they can come in one line, then automatically it will happen. Yes, from a physical perspective, yes, there is the three coming together will cause the physical event, the eclipse.

But from a shastric perspective, eclipse is not just a physical event. That physical event is associated with certain cosmic effects or certain malefic effects, certain inauspicious effects. And those effects are caused by Rahu and Ketu.

So, when it is said that, okay, during eclipses we should fast or we should do some sacred activities, should avoid certain activities, that is not simply because in the past people are so superstitious or suddenly it has become dark, suddenly we can't see the sun, suddenly we can't see the moon. Oh, that's why we should pray now. It is not just that.

Because Rahu and Ketu are having an influence at that time, so that creates an inauspicious effect. So, the eclipses are not just a physical phenomena. The physical cause of eclipse can be explained in terms of the sun, moon and earth being one line.

But the inauspiciousness associated with the eclipses is caused by Rahu and Ketu. And because Rahu and Ketu are strong negative influences, that's why their location needs to be known. And as far as the Surya Siddhanta or other Siddhanta Jyotishastras are there, there is no other way described to know their location apart from their position at the nodes.

So, in that sense, the eclipses are the way to know when Rahu and Ketu influence, when Rahu and Ketu are going to have an influence. So, the location is known through the method of the eclipse. Now, the Bhagavatam's language is a little more careful.

Sometimes, whenever any story is there in Sanskrit, when it's translated into English, there are different ways it could be translated. And often the translator's agenda or bias comes into the picture. So, the Bhagavatam, if you look at the Sanskrit, it doesn't say it devours.

It says it covers. So, covering and devouring are two different things. And devouring can also be used in a metaphorical sense.

In Bhagavad Gita it says, Mahasano Mahapapma. So, lust is all devouring Prabhupada translates. Now, what does it devour? Even a lusty person is still existing.

It's not like a crocodile or alligator that has devoured something. So, that devouring can also refer in a non-literal sense to lust devours the intelligence of a person. That means the intelligence stops functioning.

So, Rahu and Ketu, they devour the sun and the moon. That means their influence in terms of their luminosity stops manifesting. So, it's not talking about a physical devouring.

It is talking about, even when the word devouring is used, it is more in the metaphorical sense to refer to their influence being eclipsed, being overcome. They no longer manifest at that time. Is this explanation clear from this diagram? Or do I need to, should I explain anything once again? Yeah.

If it's not clear, I can explain. And if you don't care, it doesn't matter. It's just that sometimes, sometimes we don't need to know.

We need to know someone who knows. That's also enough. So, just if somebody makes fun of this, there's no need to get bewildered.

There is a sufficiently sophisticated explanation for this. Thank you. So, we will discuss various things one by one.

I will discuss about eclipses now. Then there is another controversial statement which sometimes Prabhupada says which simply agitates people. Prabhupada seems to say that sun is closer to the earth than the moon.

Now, people who know some amount of cosmology say that if it were like that, we would not be able to live. Mercury is the closest planet. Either Mercury nor Venus are actually suitable for human habitation because they are just too hot.

So, what is Prabhupada saying actually when he is saying sun is closer to the earth? So, this is the question. The moon is not that far away. That's what modern cosmology tells us.

So, how do we understand it? So, the Bhagavatam's vision itself is different. When it talks about distances, it's talking about distances from different perspectives. It's a vision based on the evolution of consciousness of the residents.

And within the Bhagavatam's universal description, there is a vertical dimension. Vertical is not just physically up. It is in terms of karma.

Like I mentioned, heaven is up. So, there is a vertical dimension to the universe and the cosmos. And then when we say the Svarga Loka is above and Satya Loka is above that, that is in terms of a karmic hierarchy.

Now, we may depict it in terms of geographical hierarchy when we draw diagrams of the universe. But there is much more to the description of the universe. So, with this basic understanding of the vision of the universe, let's move forward.

So, here let's consider three buildings. So, there is somebody living in flat A on the ground floor. Yeah, I'll just come to that.

So, at the bottom of the flat A ground level is the earth. So, that's at the right side. So, now somebody is living here and then far away from them, somebody is living.

So, that is the sun. That is the left top, left most. The yellow one.

That is flat C. So, flat A is the earth, flat C is the sun. And flat B, you'll see it's at a very high level. You can say it's at the 20th level.

But it is very close. So, when Prabhupada is saying the sun is closer than the earth, it's closer to the earth than the moon, he is referring it in terms of the vertical dimension. Vertical dimension means the height of the sun is, in terms of height, the sun's plane is closer to the earth's plane than the moon's plane.

If you consider the plane, then the sun is closer in its plane. But not in the geographical distance. So, the earth is at the ground level, the sun is at the second level.

So, earlier I also described that the earth is the Bhumandala and Manasattar Parvat, the sun is moving around. But Soma is way above. So, flat B is horizontally, if we consider, in terms of horizontal dimensions, flat B is much closer to flat A. So, here now we have three ways of measuring distance.

One is, look at the planes of all the three places, the plane in which they are existing. The earth, the sun and the moon. If you look at the three planes and measure the distance between them, then the sun is closer to the earth than the moon.

But if we look at it in terms of the horizontal distance, the sun is much much further away. And then if we look at the effective distance, that is the diagonal distance, even the diagonal distance also the sun is much further away. So, when Prabhupada is talking about the sun being closer, it is primarily in terms of the plane at which the sun is existing.

It's not the physical distance of the sun to the earth, but the distance of the solar plane to the earth's plane. So, just now we started the class. It is described that the solar plane is at a particular level.

No, that is the Bhagavatam itself is saying that the sun exists at a particular height. And then in between there is the Kim Purusha Loka and the Upadevata Lokas. And then below that there is the earth.

But the Swarga Lokas are way above. The Swarga Lokas have already been described and Chandra exists over there. So, these particular dimensions are about the heights of various planes that's mentioned in the Bhagavatam itself.

So, this is the resolution for that particular distance conundrum. So, now we will discuss one more thing, that is Bhagavatam sometimes gives dimensions for earthly objects that seem to be unbelievable. So, for example, the Himalayas are said to be thousands of miles high.

So, how exactly is it possible? We know that the Himalayas are not, we have climbed on top of the Himalayas. Many people have. So, here the concept of Adhikar comes up.

So, the idea is that the universe is like a complex computer. A simple example to understand this. So, if there is a very sophisticated high-end computer, then a data entry operator might be working on that computer and they may have access to only a small portion of the computer.

You enter data over here, you enter data over here, that's all. And apart from that, they may not be able to access anything else. And for them, the computer is only maybe this 50 GB.

But actually the computer might have 50 TB of data. But somebody who has the appropriate level of access, maybe the CEO or the top officers, they can get all the 50 TB data. So, although they are accessing, both are accessing the same computer, they are not accessing at the same level.

So, similarly, just like a computer can have multiple levels of access, so similarly, the universe, there are certain objects in the universe, which can be accessed at different levels by different people. Just like even if physically we go to Chandraloka, we access it only in three dimensions. We don't access the higher levels of Chandraloka.

So, similarly, just like the Ganga, we perceive the Ganga as it flows through Gangotri here. But the Ganga as it exists in the higher levels, if the higher planets themselves are subtle, then the water also there is going to be subtle. So, the Ganga which is in the higher levels, we will not be able to perceive it from here.

So, similarly, the Himalayas, they exist on the earth and they exist at higher levels of reality also. So, the same hard disk, it is seen as having different amounts of data by different people. Similarly, the Himalayas, depending on the adhikar, it is seen differently by different people.

So, this is also called as state-specific knowledge. That means, the knowledge that we pursue depends on the state of our consciousness. To some extent, quantum physics talks a lot about this, that it is the observer who determines what can be seen.

And if the observer is not there, then the perception will be different. Now, Einstein himself found quantum physics very difficult to accept. One of his famous quotes condemning quantum physics is that, he said, I would like to believe that the moon continues to exist even if I am not looking at it.

He said, obviously, moon continues to exist. But according to quantum physics, it doesn't. Quantum physics, actually there are simply waves and when there is an observer, then the waves coagulate and we see gross objects at that time.

So, we are not going to quantum physics. But the idea of state-specific knowledge, that the observer determines the observation, that is something which is not alien to science. So, similarly, depending on the state of consciousness of the observer, certain areas of the universe are perceived and certain aren't perceived.

So, when we talk about perceiving higher realities, how are they to be perceived? There are broadly three things over there. There is some amount of visual perception. But there is also to be intellectual comprehension.

And then after that, there is spiritual realization. So, when all these three come together, that's when we perceive. And this applies for Himalayas.

This also applies, say, for Vrindavan. Now, we may go to Vrindavan, but we don't see Vrindavan just by seeing with our eyes. Now, still seeing with our eyes is important.

Still we are recommended that we go to Vrindavan. But don't go there with a sight-seeing mood. We go there with, yes, we see with our eyes, but our eyes are guided by the description of scriptures.

And not only they are guided by description of scriptures, but our heart is filled with the devotion that comes by associating with great devotees. And then we perceive those higher realities. So, the same is depicted in a different way.

If you consider triangle, these three things, sensory perception, scriptural description, and then prayerful contemplation of spiritual realization. So, as these three increase, then we see the dham more and more. So, we see with our eyes, but don't just see with our eyes.

We remember with our head and then we pray with our heart. Then the divine Vrindavan will be revealed to us. So, all three need to be combined together.

So, now we move to the Vedic planetarium. So, now this is probably one of the most ambitious projects that our movement has taken up. Ambitious in terms of not just the funds required or in terms of the magnificence of the temple that is being built, but also in terms of the attempt to depict a planetarium.

So, I would like to now read out, although the planetarium is one of the biggest projects that Prabhupada has talked about, the number of times he has talked about is not many. He has talked about it with several of his followers and there are about 8 quotes where Prabhupada talks about the purpose of the planetarium. So, we will look at that and we will get a sense of what was Prabhupada's vision when he wanted this planetarium.

So, I prefer those who have not read till now, maybe they can take the mic and read. What we need to explain. Now, all you PhDs must carefully study the details of the fifth candle and make a working model of the universe.

If we can explain the passing seasons, eclipses, phases of the moon, passing of day and night, etc., then it will be a very powerful propaganda. Let it comes in the Prabhupada Swaroop Ramana Das, April 27, 1976. Yes, thank you.

So, Prabhupada actually envisioned the idea of a planetarium quite late and that's why there are not many quotes of Prabhupada. So, it's interesting, Prabhupada also uses the word model over here. Working and that all, this is a working model.

Why? Because the universe is too complex, we can't know how it is. But if we can get a working model that explains basic things that we observe in the universe, then Prabhupada said that will be a powerful propaganda. So, this is where we don't want to dismiss the whole Bhagavatam's description as divine insights of no relevance.

We do want to come up with a working model as much as possible. Prabhupada also wanted that. At the same time, it's not that everything that is there in the universe, we will be able to perceive it empirically or demonstrate empirically.

We will come to that. So, that is the basic purpose what is required for the planetarium. Now, what is the planetarium about? Magnificent temple.

That is our plan. To make a very big temple and to show all the planetary systems within that first Bhagavatam. It will not be an ordinary temple, so that people from the whole world, they will come to see our contemplation.

This is the class on Bhagavatam. So, again you will see mostly 1976 and 1977. Moonshine like attractiveness.

He further revealed, I have named this temple Sri Mayapur Chandrodhya Mahine, the rising moon of Mayapur. Now make it rise bigger and bigger until it becomes the full moon. And this moonshine will be spread all over the world.

All over India, they will come to see. From all over the world, they will come. Letter to Rameshwar, Aishwarya Nagar, October 1977.

Written by Brahman and written by Sri Prabhupada. Initialed. Many times Prabhupada would directly dictate the letters.

And sometimes Prabhupada was too busy or sometimes too sick. Then he would just paraphrase. You write this.

And then the disciples would write in their words. But then they would sign, the particular disciple would sign and Prabhupada would countersign it. I have read it and I authorized it.

So, Prabhupada answered his correspondence in two different ways and at different times. So, especially when he was sick, he would do this. So, this is a little earlier, 1974.

Attract more people. People are already coming from all parts of the world to see Mayapur and join in Vishampittal movement. So, if something more attractive is done, more people will come from all parts of the world.

Letter to V. R. Shridhar Maharaj, Los Angeles 6th June 1976. So, he is writing to his godbrother now that we want to attract more people to come here. And this is the famous pastime which Ambarish Prabhu tells.

So, Ambarish Prabhu tells that the background is that he says that, Prabhupada, I heard about that you are going to build something. It seems wonderful. Then Prabhupada says, I have financed to attract people to Mayapur.

You also like it. So, finance this project in a very kind way. Where will this be, Prabhupada, Mayapur? My idea is to attract people of the world and world to Mayapur.

So, it was like a casual subject which came up in the conversation and that has become the life mission of Ambarish Prabhu now. So, you like it, so finance it. So, Prabhupada was like that, if somebody told that they can light a matchstick, you become in charge of electricity for the whole project.

Like that. Township and material to attract. Prabhupada, yes, we are acquiring 350 acres of land from life for constructing a small township.

I think we, Prabhupada, will attract people from all the world to see that land. So, there is a township and within the township there is a planetarium and that people will come to see that. This is a little more specific.

Automatically advertised. Rupa, would people will come to see the world? World people. Would people will come to see the world of planetary systems? Tamal Krishna.

We should advertise it very widely that this is the actual factual explanation of the universe. Rupa, this will be automatically advertised. As soon as the temple is finished, people will come like anything.

So, Prabhupada does not go in the direction, this is the actual factual. Rupa says, no, the advertisement will automatically be done. So, the advertisement is that people come and more and more people will come.

This is March 18, 1976, Mayapur. Simple living, high thinking. Dear Mr. Hunter, please accept my greetings.

I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter with an enclosed contribution towards the development of our Mayapur city investment park. And I thank you very much. We are trying to construct a city where people from all over the world can come to visit and live according to the wedding tenets of simple living and high thinking.

I am pleased to hear that you are appreciating of our humble efforts and if you would like to contribute in the future towards this great spiritual city, you can send your contributions to me. We are sincerely K. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. K. C. B. P. S. Letter to Mr. Hunter, Los Angeles, June 1976.

Yeah. So, it's interesting. He also mentioned the planetarium in his letter.

In general, what has happened? In the Veda base, we have the letters that Prabhupada wrote. We don't have the letters that were written to Prabhupada. Why? Because many times it was a conscious policy decided by the Veda base managers.

Because many devotees wrote their personal problems and they didn't want those problems to be public. So, those letters we don't have. But from the context we know that actually this was Prabhupada.

He also wanted to contribute to the planetarium and Prabhupada says we are building this for simple living, high thinking. Help us make this diagram, Prabhupada. No.

At present, we are not very much concerned. We are creating, we want the diagram, how to fix it up so that people can see. This is the situation.

So, you make this diagram. We need an astronomer. It is first attempt to unite with the ideas of Bhagavan.

Prabhupada. Yes. So, we have got very good scheme so that people from the world will come to see the Vedic idea of planetary system.

This is the ambition. So, you kindly help us. Manikarma Satsang, 1937, Bombay.

So, it was extraordinarily ambitious. Astrologer says we have never done this before. They used some calculations for Jyotisha.

It actually depicted it was a big challenge and Prabhupada consulted various experts and at that time he was disappointed because nobody actually did anything tangible. This is the last quote. Exhibit India's Vedic culture.

The plans for this very large project are being taken solely from the references found in great cantos of Bhagavan and its commemorative commentaries by important archangels along with other Puranas and Samhitas like Brahma Samhita etc. As you can appreciate the work involved in this project will be gigantic and the advice of many experts from all fields will be there to make it come out successful. It will be a glorious exhibition of India's Vedic culture that will attract visitors from all over the world.

Letter from Shri Raghupath to S N Dhani, November 14, 1976. Yes. So, Prabhupada says several things based on the Shastra.

We need the cooperation of experts and then it will be exhibition of Vedic culture. So, now these are all the statements Prabhupada has directly on the purpose of the planetarium. Now, to summarize it, what are the purposes? Attract people to Mayapur.

That is the main thing. Where there could be Krishna Conscious City of simple living, high thinking. And where the visitors will learn about the Vedic worldview and Krishna Consciousness in general.

And how is the method for that? Build a big beautiful temple which contains a planetarium showing the universe according to the Srimad Bhagavatam. Now, unfortunately, if you look at much of the propaganda that goes out in social media and other places, there are many secondary purposes which are not mentioned in even one of the letters of Prabhupada that come up. So, challenging the scientists, defeating the scientists, revealing advanced science in the Bhagavatam, spelling the downfall of western civilization, convincing people of the empirical truth of the 5th Canto.

Prabhupada doesn't mention even one of these in any of his letters. Now, there might be something which Prabhupada has talked about challenging the scientists elsewhere. He has talked about, but challenging the scientists, it's usually in terms of life comes from life.

That consciousness doesn't come from matter. So, it's like, now devotees may often be well-intentioned, but they take one purpose and transpose it on other contexts. The purpose of the planetarium was not to challenge or defeat the scientists.

The purpose of the planetarium was also not. Now, this doesn't mean that we can, in certain areas, we can challenge and defeat the scientists. If possible, we can also show the advanced science in the Bhagavatam.

But that is not the purpose that Prabhupada wanted for the planetarium. So, why am I saying this? That somehow, in general, sometimes things are made more confrontational than they need to be. Prabhupada's purpose in having the planetarium was not confrontational.

It was more a cultural depiction to attract people. So, when we take a confrontational mode, it unnecessarily increases hostilities. So, if we consider each tradition, or at least our tradition, has something distinctive to present.

So, if we look at it from scientific perspective, the idea of consciousness having a non-material source, that is a very big field of study now. Consciousness study is one of the biggest advancing fields in science today. So, we have something to present over there.

If we go into theology, then the idea of loving divinity and all attractive, all loving person, Krishna, that is something extraordinary. Other traditions don't have such a vivid and attractive conception of God. So, our tradition has something significant to provide, either to world science or to world theology.

But if we take a confrontational approach with respect to the planetarium, unnecessarily we distract energy and the purpose was not confrontation. It was more of a cultural depiction as far as Prabhupada's own statements are concerned. And that brings me to the last part now.

How do we resolve the science-scripture conflicts? So, we discussed this whole cosmology in such a way that whatever descriptions of cosmos are there, they can be understood by a reasonable person. Not that everything can be understood. But there can be a reasonable understanding where one doesn't have to reject science to accept scripture.

So, this is the last part I'll take about how science-scripture conflicts can be resolved. So, basically if you consider scripture knowledge as a big circle, some of it will agree with science, some of it will disagree with science and some of it will transcend science. Now, for the purpose of depiction, I've seen these three circles in a particular size.

But actually speaking, if you see, most of scriptural knowledge will fall in this category of transcend science. That God is a bluish black cowherd boy who lives in a pastoral paradise. Science can neither prove this nor disprove it.

It's just beyond the domain of science. So, most of scriptural knowledge falls in the category of that which transcends science. And if we look at our own lives, when we are practicing scripture, we practice firmly that aspect of scripture which transcends science.

That is what matters to us the most. That is what we relish. That is what we learn from and that is what we grow by.

So, most of you have been performing the austerity of hearing these three classes on cosmology for the three days. Your austerity will end in 10-15 minutes, hopefully. But this doesn't really matter much for us when we are practicing bhakti.

Because when we are practicing bhakti, we may use science, but what our focus is, how can I improve my consciousness. In general, some people practice spirituality. They want to become, maybe manage their emotions better, become more forgiving, become more sensitive, more kind-hearted, have some kind of meaning and purpose in their lives.

So, people, when they come to spirituality and they come to spiritual wisdom texts, that is for some knowledge that transcends science. So, our approach, the way it can be is, if there are some things in scripture which agree with science, we use those things to help people get faith in scripture, so that they can start focusing on that part of scripture which transcends science. And if there are some things in scripture which disagree with science, we have to manage them in such a way that that doesn't become an obstacle for people to come towards the section which transcends science.

So, the whole idea is, get people to the section of scripture which is transcendent and manage the other two sections, first to give faith and the other to avoid damage to faith. So, cosmology, if we consider from that perspective, the cosmological descriptions will fall in which of these categories? Yes. At one level, some of the descriptions of cosmos just transcend science, if we talk about the spiritual world.

But some of the descriptions of, say, some things which we observe, they seem to contradict science. So, our idea should be that, how do we manage this contradiction? So, get people of that onto the area that is transcendent. So, don't obsess on this.

Because we ourselves don't dwell too much on it, so why should we have people who are new dwell on it? So, now somebody might say, is there something that transcends science? What happens, science is basically a horizontal bar and then the horizontal bar expands. But it expands only vertically. So, that which is beyond knowledge always stays beyond knowledge.

So, science knowledge expands in one domain and that domain is the domain of matter. So, we may know a lot of things. But we know things only in the domain of matter.

Like science is the study of matter. Spirituality is the study of what matters. Of what matters.

What is important in life. There are 10 things which is more important, which is less important. So, when Arjuna came to Krishna, he is not interested in learning Dhanur Vidya.

He has already learnt. That is the study of matter. He has already learnt it from elsewhere.

But at that time, what is it that matters? Does protecting the lives of my elders matter? Or does not killing Bhishma and Drona matter? Does it matter that we gain the kingdom back? What matters most? The spirituality is the study of what matters. So, science has its scope and spirituality has its scope. So, science is based on assumptions and axioms.

And it leads to powerful understanding in a particular way, but incomplete understanding. It is silent about existence, purpose and value. Existence means why do we exist at all? That question is not answered.

Purpose. What are we meant to live for? And while living, how do I choose? Should I do A or do B? The values we live for, that is something which science itself can't tell us. It is we who have to choose.

So, these are things which science doesn't provide and scripture provides us that. That's why faith and enquiry, faith means learning from scripture and enquiry means the rational spirit of enquiry. Both can coexist and they can complement each other.

So, what would be the attitude towards science? Somebody might say, it's right. And anything that is not accepted by science, we reject it. That would be, that is actually not science, that is called a scientism.

It's imperialism in the name of science. Because science itself doesn't claim that it tells everything about everything. What science says is, it offers natural explanation for observed phenomena.

So, that's within the definition of science itself. So, one extreme to science is to say that science is right always. The other extreme is to say that science is wrong.

And unless you reject your faith in science, you cannot really have faith in scripture. It's not like that. Within is, it's useful.

Useful means that we learn the purpose of living from scripture. And while living in the world, science is a useful tool. So, just like there could be many useful tools.

Say, we learn the purpose of living to raise our consciousness, attain Krishna from Shastra. But if our health falls sick, Ayurveda could be one tool for recovery. Allopathy could be one tool.

There could be, Unani could be one tool. There are so many other tools for recovery. So, these are useful tools.

Sometimes they may work, sometimes they may not work. If they work, use it. So, our approach towards science can be Yukta Vairagya.

That we use it to the extent it is useful. And we don't have to necessarily reject it, nor do we have to necessarily accept it. And then this brings us to the conclusion of the section.

Yeah, would somebody like to read this? For the last three verses of the whole section Cosmology, they reiterate the purpose. Who has the mic? Yes. So, the whole purpose is, thank you.

It is to increase our Krishna consciousness. And because our consciousness is externally oriented, so, have some external object for thinking about. So, now, for us, there could be various external objects.

The dham, the temple, the deities, they are all external objects. The sevas that we do, they are also external objects. So, whichever external objects can enhance our consciousness, we use those.

We respectfully use those and then we move onward toward Krishna. So, this is, in that sense, one tool. We have to see whether it enhances our Krishna consciousness, then read, hear it.

We discussed earlier about Rashtrila. If it doesn't enhance our Krishna consciousness, then there is no need to use it. And then, see, when we are preaching, seek to give people peace of mind, not a peace of your mind.

Sometimes we just feel, you know, you are wrong and I'll prove to you you are wrong. And then what happens in giving a peace of our mind to people, we take away their peace of mind. And they become agitated.

I can't accept this. So, we need to put first things first. Now, what, as I said earlier, this cosmology, it doesn't matter to us when we are practicing bhakti so much.

So, then why should we make it matter to those who are just taking up bhakti? No, our purpose is to make their path easier to Krishna, not make their path tougher. So, it's like, say, Sunday feast is there. And, you know, for everybody who comes to Sunday feast, we have simply khichdi.

And for insiders, we have opulent feast. You know, that would be improper. You know, we don't make those who visit temple, life more difficult for them than necessary.

So, what applies to giving food, it also applies to giving philosophy. We don't have to make people's journey to Krishna more intellectually hostile or intellectually difficult than it needs to be. So, Prabhupada was expert in removing obstacles from people's path.

And Prabhupada famously would give explanations in a way that could gel with people. And Prabhupada was asked, what is the joy of LSD? Sorry, what is the joy of the spiritual world? Now, Prabhupada told the seven offenses where he says that one of the offenses is to give some mundane interpretation of the holy name. But Prabhupada told that what is the joy of Krishna consciousness or the spiritual world? It's like an ocean of LSD.

Now, is that offensive interpretation? Not at all. It's not offensive. It is accessible.

And it's the expertise of the preacher to give an explanation that is accessible to the audience. So, to the extent we do that, to that extent, we are actually helping people come to Krishna. And that's our responsibility.

So, thank you very much for your patient attention and your austere participation.