Bhakti Shastri (135) – Bhagavad Gita Chapter 17 Text 01 to 04

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welcome back to the bhagavad gita bhakti shastri course now we are in the penultimate chapter of the bhagavad gita the 17th chapter entitled shraddha tri-vibhaga yoga the three divisions of faith so the connection between the 16 and 17 chapter is logical and self-evident 16 chapter ends with talking about the contrast those who reject scripture they don’t attain any perfection those who accept scripture they attain perfection therefore no therefore one should follow scripture then one will be able to act properly so in when krishna is talking about those who reject scripture he says that those who reject scripture and act according to lust according to self-centred desire now krishna asks another possibility what about some people who reject scripture but act according to some other faith which is not based on scripture then what happens to them so that is the connection and then krishna’s essential answer is that actually once then one has to look at the three modes of material nature and see how a person is situated within the three modes and then he gives characteristics for understanding behavioural characteristics for understanding which mode a person is situated in and thereby we can determine understand what the level of the faith of that person is so let’s have a quick overview of the chapter before we move forward and discuss the verses so one two four talks about recognise the level of faith through the modes then then five to six talks about demoniac austerity means how we shouldn’t just be misled by externals and certain austerity can be demoniac also and then krishna talks about four behavioural characteristics which can help us to understand the mode that a person is food sacrifice austerity and charity in the three modes um so after describing this then krishna says that okay whatever activities one is doing what are the sacrifices one is doing we can make them transcendental by uttering om tatsat so om tatsat is not just utterance it’s a profound philosophical understanding and a consciousness that we will discuss when we come to that part let’s begin with the first krishna with faith what is the nature of their faith oh krishna is it in goodness passion or ignorance so what is arjuna asking over here going back to the metaphor of the tree of material existence so the enjoying mentality is the seed of the tree and the 15 chapter describes the tree the 14 chapter describes the modes which lead to the nourishment of the tree 16 chapter described the two extremities the godly and the demoniac the divine and the demoniac natures now this is talking about somewhere in between those people who are who are not following scripture but they’re not necessarily motivated by self by just selfish desire they have some kind of faith so non-scriptural faith what happens to those people so prabhupada explains in the purport if one with faith follows some rules which are not mentioned in scripture injection what is the position of the person so that is the question and krishna will answer in a somewhat enigmatic way so shri bhagwan what does bhagwan say that shraddha is of three types for the dehinam for the embodied living being it is born from faith that there is goodness there is passion and there is tamasi also so basically shraddha is of three types and the now arjun has already asked the question that okay where is this how is that faith and goodness passion ignorance so then what is the point of krishna repeating the same thing essentially the emphasis the emphasis of krishna’s point is means born of one’s nature so of course we can say the nature is born of one’s past karma we discussed about that in our earlier class so the hinamsa swabhavaja so our faith is determined by our nature what does it mean see nature means the way we think the way we act the way we perceive the way we respond that’s our nature so now that is our nature is our nature also determines our faith there is nobody who is faithless even a faithless person is not faithless generally the word faithless is used for somebody who is atheist so even atheists have their own version of faith you know atheists have faith in the non-existence of god because there is no way anyone can prove that god doesn’t exist there’s no way that one can prove that there is no god no scientific experiment against just invisibility is no proof of non-existence so when atheists say god doesn’t exist that simply means that they are putting their faith in the non-existence of god you say theists are putting faith in the existence of god atheists are putting faith in the non-existence of god and is there an essential difference between the two not really both are matters of faith ultimately so if both are matters of faith then what is the difference there’s no difference both are both are from the point of view of empirical analysis both are equally unverifiable but the problem is that with respect to atheism there is no experiential verification possible of it whereas especially with respect to not just general theism but vedic theism which is experiential there is a whole process of yoga there are various yogas and there is bhakti yoga and the process of yoga enables one to get experiential verification of what one what is taught in the scripture and in that way one can realise what is the truth so actually both atheists and theists have to ascribe inconceivability to something you know where the universe has come from and how all the majestic variety of universe has come about that is something which there is no logical explanation for it in terms of if you just use logic in the narrow sense of material cause and effect because how matter suddenly gave out consciousness how matter develops self-organising capabilities how matter led to design of the level of complexity and intricacy that we see around in the world that is inconceivable so so the atheists ascribe inconceivable characteristics to matter but there is no process by which one can realise matter so that’s why that is a matter that atheism is the faith of is faith in faithlessness atheism is also a religion it is a religion of faith in faithlessness this faith this nature which we have acquired can be changed if one associates the bona fide spiritual master and abides by his rules and the scriptures so one can change one’s modes so what one has to do one has to consider things carefully with intelligence with intelligence in the consortium of a bona fide spiritual master so we are born with faith with a particular kind of nature and that shapes our faith but it can be changed in fact the whole bhagavad-gita is spoken so elevate our understanding of faith sattva anurupa sarvasya shraddha bhavati bharata shraddha mayoyam purusho yoya shraddha sa eva saha sattva anurupa sarvasya sattva anurupa sattva anurupa means according to one’s nature so sattva is one’s existence according to one’s existence sattva can also it’s more or less same as ager according to one’s existence shraddha bhavati bharata so one’s faith is determined by one’s existence and shraddha mayoyam purusho that means the purusha is made of shraddha shraddha maya like anandmaya is made of anand shraddha maya is made of shraddha shraddha mayoyam purusha that a person is made of shraddha yoya shraddha sa eva saha yoya shraddha sa eva saha so as is one’s faith so a person is so krishna is now in this verse talking about what a defining role our faith plays in facing us in shaping us so shraddha mayoyam purusha that actually the purusha is simply made of shraddha and yoya shraddha sa eva saha and as is the faith so is the person so as is the faith so is the person that means actually everything about us is largely determined by our faith now we may not understand what a role faith plays in our life but simple things you know we work hard for a full month and then somebody gives us a piece of paper now somebody who doesn’t know what is a currency you work for a whole month that person did not give you any grains did not give you any cattle did not give you any anything tangible which is of wealth they just give you a piece of paper and you’re satisfied with that now we may say oh you are a fool you don’t understand what are the value of this piece of paper is it’s a check and is that you can go to a bank and then you can get money from it so now we may say we may call the person who doubts this as foolish but actually what is it we are putting faith there are there have been times in the history especially in the 1929 depression in america at that time you know the currency became so terribly devalued so terribly devalued that people are not that not just that one time alone zimbabwe also the currency became terribly devalued so actually when we put when you ascribe money to paper currency or further now to checks and things like that ascribe wealth to that if the whole banking system collapses tomorrow in the currency gets devalued there are times when people took a bucket full of currency notes to a shop to get just some grains for one meal and when they went to the shop at that time you know they threw away the currency notes and sold the bucket and the bucket was worth more than the bucket full of currency notes so now we may say these are extreme situations we are being alarmist over here yes the point is not to say that these are typical situations but the point is to indicate that there is a role of faith in every aspect of our life so when we are using currency what are we doing we are putting faith in the monetary system that when i put in when i put in my labour and i get a get a currency note or that can be translated into money which can be eventually be translated into things that i need so faith plays a role everywhere when we go in a flight we are putting faith in the driver in the aeroplane company in the car in the air pilot and that they will take us safely we may say that’s a reasonable faith so here we’re not talking about yes it may be reasonable faith because that company has taken so many people in the past safely to the destination that is fine the point here is not about whether the faith is reasonable or not the point is that faith is present and faith is essential so all of us are shaped by our faith how much our faith is shaped as we may not even know till we actually introspect seriously so in the previous verse krishna said that our faith is determined by our nature then he said it was based on shravabhava now he is telling that okay actually faith is not just a product of nature but faith is in one sense our essence according to our existence we have our faith according to the way people according to one’s existence the faith is shaped but faith is not just something which is externally expressed faith is it is intrinsic to our makeup we are just made up of our shraddha as is our faith so we are nakshila prabhupada explains interestingly that shraddha or faith originally comes out in the mode of out of the mode of goodness once faith means a demigod or some god created god or some mental concoction and strong faith is supposed to be productive of works in goodness but so now that means now we may wonder here where exactly is faith situated so now faith is not a physical thing like a table which has to be kept at a particular place but that doesn’t mean it’s entirely intangible also the soul which is pure the soul has got nothing to do with matter so it doesn’t have anything to do with physical matter that is gross matter or subtle matter mind stuff as they say so that soul the soul’s original pure transcendental faith is in krishna the soul loves krishna and is happy in loving and serving krishna that is the soul’s original faith now independent of that the soul also has faith in other things what are the other things the soul currently has different faiths that is in goodness passion ignorance the original faith is transcendental so then it’s in pure goodness entirely but nothing is pure in the material world even goodness is not pure it gets contaminated by passion ignorance now when the soul is situated in the material world it is covered by a subtle body and the subtle body shapes the perceptions and the actions of the soul so our current faith is situated in our subtle body so our current faith depending on the way our subtle body is situated may be in goodness passion or ignorance that is the way our faith presently is and this faith will gradually change it will gradually evolve it will develop and become stronger and purer as we move upwards as we become purified so the soul’s original as it is said in the it is said that that shravanadi that if one just shravan systematically then udai it becomes so udai just the sun rises at the in the morning similarly by regular hearing the faith become faith arises so faith is always there but it is just not realised so it’s not realised in terms of what the pure spiritual natural faith of the soul is not realised whereas it is now distorted just like if there is a light source the light source originally gives beautiful is soothing white light but it is covered by a red filter then jarring red light may come out of it so like that the soul’s original faith is natural directed towards krishna but now the soul’s faith because of being covered by the modes which influence the mind is directed in various directions so let’s go to the next verse so faith in the devatas is in goodness yaksha rakshamsi so even in passion one worships the yakshas and the rakshasas and when one is in ignorance one worships the pretas the bhutas bhutaganams all this kind of people when one is in ignorance so now we may have earlier heard that how those in goodness worship vishnu those in passion worship brahma and those in ignorance worship shiva and durga and kali so those in so that way that’s how the three matcha purana describes that the 18 puranas are classified like the sattvic purana rajasic purana and tamasic puranas now this is a simplistic understanding actually you know it is not that in the sattvic purana there is no mention of vishnu of brahma or shiva nor is that in tamasic puranas there is no mention of vishnu the all these devatas they all all the puranas say share more or less the same universe in terms of what they are describing and same but then the realities that are defected in terms of what are the aspirations of the people what are the conceptions of what are the understandings of people what are their conceptions those change and in the tamasic puranas the largely the aspirations and the conceptions are are more in tune with those who are in the mode of ignorance so it is not that those puranas don’t mention vishnu but the focus is on tamasic achievements tamasic ambitions and accordingly the whole purana is moulded so therefore these puranas are not considered to be uh wrong but they are considered to be catering to a lower level of reality and to the extent these puranas also talk about higher level to the extent these puranas agree with the higher reality to that extent they are accepted otherwise means sattvic puranas to that extent they are accepted otherwise they are not so we’ll look at a verse about it slightly later but right now the point which we are making is that here it said that those who worship the devatas are in goodness but then we hear that those who worship uh say kali or shiva are in ignorance so how do we understand this contradiction the point is that there are levels and first and foremost faith in scripture itself it’s in the mode of goodness now with if one doesn’t have some basic level of goodness one cannot have faith in scripture so we could put like faith in vishnu worship of vishnu is in goodness goodness faith in uh worship sorry worship of brahma is in goodness passion and worship of shiva is in goodness ignorance what does it mean goodness ignorance that means there’s basic platform of goodness but within that there can be ranges so if goodness is a spectrum then within that also there can be variations so in goodness so the idea of accepting some higher being who is talked about in the scripture that itself requires a faith which is indicative of the mode of goodness to understand is another way we also say that animals are in different modes for example a cow is in the mode of goodness or a monkey is in the mode of passion or a jackal is in the mode of ignorance so now um how do we understand this or i’m sorry i’m sorry uh um a lion is in the mode of lion is in the mode of passion and say a jackal or a monkey is in the mode of ignorance so like that we say often now when we say like this it is basically understood that all animals are in the mode of ignorance you know gajendra says that tamar in one of his prayers in the eighth canto he says that actually because i’m in the mode of an animal body therefore i’m in i’m covered by ignorance so then what does it mean basically in the animal body there is a general mode of ignorance because all animals they are so covered that they can’t perceive spiritual reality unless of course it’s exceptional cases like gajendra where the animals uh the souls in the bodies have practised devotional service or spiritual life in their prior previous human birth so spiritual life cannot be started in an animal body but spiritual life may be continued in the animal body the spiritual life once it is started one is helplessly attracted so that’s why one of his consignors is janananda maharaj a book called animals in krishna consciousness and in that he has described how various temples all over the world there have been experience devotees have had experiences of some animals in some one temple there was a dog who would come every evening at a time of gaur arati and just sit peacefully outside the temple and behold the deities while the arati was going on another place a cow would come just at the time of arati and he would be there herself not that the cow has to be brought cowed herself like that there are different animals and the devotees when dog would come now normally dog is considered inauspicious so dog would be they would shoo it away so when the dog they would try to drive the dog away the dog wouldn’t bark dog wouldn’t retaliate dog would just move away and again sit down there and eventually devotees understood this is a devotee dog it’s a devotee dog now we may wonder how can somebody be if somebody has practised spiritual life in a previous life then how can somebody become a dog we discussed this earlier also briefly actually this is the same principle how jadbharat became how bharat maharaj became a deer see there is a there is a spiritual principle there is a material principle and real life no principle applies in isolation because real life is complex so the spiritual principle is that once one has started spiritual life one will continue that that one whatever one neha bhikram na shosti if one has developed interaction for krishna that may be covered but that is never lost that will stay so on the other hand if one gets attached to something material and thinks of that at the time of death that’s what one will get so the spiritual principle is that the spiritual consciousness one has developed that is never lost but the material principle is whatever one is attached to at the moment of death that’s what one attains so both these principles if they conflict then what happens in the case of jadbharat maharaj because he was thinking of a deer at the time of death so he attained the body of a deer but because he had developed attraction for krishna by his steady practise of spiritual life so that attraction to spiritual principle spirituality was not lost so that means what happened is at a material level he got a deer’s body but he did not get deer consciousness his consciousness was far higher than of a deer that’s why he was even as a deer he was constantly searching for green grass whatever grass was available near the hermitages of the sages he would eat that grass and be satisfied and try to associate with the sages and hear about spirituality from them so that’s how sometimes it may happen that if a soul is jadbharat maharaj writes that you know if a person is very fond of a dog he writes one btg article that you know the dog is going around and the master is taking the dog around on a leash so what may happen is in the next life the dog the pet and the pet master master they may interchange positions and therefore if the pet is attached to the master the pet will become a human and we become the master of a dog and the dog and the master because attached to the dog that our master thinks of a dog and they interchange position becomes a dog so what may happen is at a material level depending on our attachment we get a material body accordingly so sometimes even a devotee may be attached to a pet too attached and they already may think instead of thinking of krishna at the time of death a devotee may don’t mean a serious devotee a new devotee because of that a devotee may get a dog’s body but at the same time because the devotees practise devotional service so the devotee keeps advancing spiritually so that’s why this we have a something like a devotee dog so anyway the point which i am making over here is that the dogs the animals are in ignorance but within ignorance also there can be goodness there can be ignorance goodness that is cows there is can be ignorance passion that will be say tigers and lions ignorance ignorance that will be say vultures and monkeys and other creatures like that jackals so ignorance ignorance can also be there so that’s why sometimes you know though we consider cows to be very sacred but at the same time sometimes in the bhagavatam when a person is considered to be a fool at that time the person is considered to be cow like a cow also there’s a famous verse that a person who is doing religious activities but without understanding the essential purpose the person thinks that i am the body made of three elements things that my bodily related people are my people things that my country is worshipable things that one has to go to holy place just to and not to associate with the learned people over there and such a person is is it like a donkey or a cow now we know okay donkey is a donkey is ignorant but cow is sacred why is it compared to a cow because a cow also is in an animal body and because of being an animal body there is ignorance over there and that ignorance has to be acknowledged so it is also the practical thing that the cow is sometimes just when milk is to be brought from the cow sometimes the cow can be deceived by making a artefact making a sort of a look alike of a baby of a calf and when that look alike of a calf is brought near the calf sometimes the cow just starts licking that and then milk starts flowing from each other that’s how the milk can also be got out so basically the cow is in the body in a body that is an animal body so it’s an ignorance so that’s why just as we can have ignorance goodness ignorance passion ignorance ignorance similarly when we say yantra satvika devan so there can be goodness goodness there can be goodness passion there can be goodness ignorance so now sometimes these people become a little confused by seeing various scriptures and how the scriptures seem to teach different things so yeah so mode of goodness is devatas and then in goodness ignorance is shiva goodness passion is brahma goodness goodness is vishnu so here there is the shusha there was some shiva puran so this is what’s about shiva shiva shastra shiva puran is skanda purana this from the skanda puran lord shiva himself is telling kartikeya a skanda puran is a tamasic puran but what is he saying in that shiva shastra so what is he saying means any scripture that talks about lord shiva that should be for example like shiva puran that should be accepted when should it be accepted only when yogi means a connection or agreement only when it is an agreement with bhagavad shastra bhagavad shastra is sattvic shastras shastras like vishnu puran bhagavad puran padma puran why is that because very simple it is that sanskrit is very straightforward in this particular puranic verse that the parama is vishnu understanding this knowledge that vishnu is supreme that is the means for liberation and then this is the nirnaya of all the scriptures but if any somebody says anything else if anything else is said tadanyan mohanayahi it is all for mohan it is not for it is not a truth it is illusion now you wonder why would the scriptures talk about mohanayahi the scriptures don’t want to delude us but the scriptures they don’t want to impose what we are not ready to accept so that’s why it’s not a matter of delusion it’s a matter of illusion illusion is not i l l u s i n it’s e l u elude so the scriptures don’t delude but the truth eludes us what does it mean the scriptures are not intended to delude us scriptures are reciprocal just like krishna said as all people surrender me i scriptures also reciprocate so if we want if we are in tamoguna and we are attached to tamoguna and scriptures will reciprocate and reveal to us tamasic realities if we are in passion scriptures reciprocate reveal passionate realities to us that’s why when we go with the open mind you know what is the teaching of the scripture that’s what i want to do then that will come to us otherwise we will basically find within scripture and become attracted within scripture to those things that agree with our preconceptions and that way we will stay trapped in material existence so if you want to go out of material existence we have to rise beyond the rise beyond the preconceptions that we have by submissively and open-mindedly looking at scripture and learning from those who are learned in scriptures especially learned in the conclusion of scripture shastrana nirnaya sthveshas so i’m not going to go into a whole elaborate discussion of demigod worship because we have already done that in our discussion on ishvopanishad when we talked about the worship of sambhuti and asambhuti but here we are discussing the point about the worship of the devatas which in general is in the mode of goodness so now let’s try to understand now krishna says so what is the difference between pretas and bhutas this can be a whole lecture i won’t go into that but briefly what are bhutas bhutas are souls with just subtle body without gross body when there is just the soul then that is uh okay i’ll just explain this okay let’s go here so so on my website i’ve written an article that was published in btg also so what exactly are ghosts um generally we use the word ghost quite often and the vedic culture gives us a systematic explanation of what ghosts actually are so let’s try to understand that so while this comes along yeah so see this is what you all of us know that the soul there is subtle body and the gross body are three levels of being so now when a person how a person becomes a ghost so what happens at the time of death this is what normally happens the gross body become it become it is always dead actually matter is always dead but it becomes dead to our vision on the departure of the soul so now at the time of death the soul leaves along with the subtle body when the soul leaves along with the subtle body normally the soul and subtle body will go to another body and when they go into another body that’s what is called a uh that’s trance migration soul gets another body but in some cases when the person say commits suicide when the person commits suicide or when the person commits uh extreme engages in extreme tamasic activities then that person is done such karma because of which that person will not get a new body very easily so you say person is supposed to live for 60 years and commit suicide at the age of 25 then for the next 35 years according to karma this person not get supposed to get a new body then what happens but the soul is destroyed this body then the soul has to exist in a disembodied stage state disembodies it means that there’s just a subtle body and the soul so that is called a ghost goes to the soul with a subtle body now sometimes people feel very scared of course sometimes in movies and in horror films they may show suddenly a door opens and there’s no one there and suddenly some screeching sound is heard or some people start seeing different things so all these things happen these are because of ghosts these may be because of ghosts now there may there may be just it may just be illusion also sometimes because of wind only the this is moving so we shouldn’t assume that ghosts are always behind the car behind such things there can be hoaxes also there can be mistakes also but let’s move forward so so now there is something called as possession now what happens in possession position how possession works so there is a normal person the normal person is a soul and subtle body around that but when that person is possessed that means what happens this is the ghost there’s a soul along with a subtle body so that enters into the gross body so that means the soul so the original person becomes dormant or inactive and then the ghost who has entered into that body that ghost takes over the body so this happens especially when a person is living in tamoguna see the ghosts now in the hierarchy which is described of various living beings that is described in the fifth canto it’s described that actually ghosts are above humans why because ghosts exist at a subtle level not that they are more evolved in their consciousness but in that particular hierarchy they because they exist at a level they sometimes have more power than humans have and especially if the humans are acting in the mode of ignorance then are living largely in tamasic intoxication and that sort of activities the ghost can come inside so why would the ghost want to possess a body because the ghosts are themselves miserable why are they miserable because they have a mind but they don’t have a body with which to enjoy we can get some example some understanding of the predicament of ghosts if you think of our situation sickness suppose we are suppose there is a big feast 20-30 ghost feast with a huge amount of delicacies available and at that time we fall terribly sick and we get loose motions and we are very weak and doctor tells us you have to take only soup only liquid soup nothing else so now we see everybody else feasting and it wasn’t there you know gulab jamun was so delicious malpua was so wonderful pakoda was so good pulao was extraordinary and then what happens is we feel miserable we want to eat but we just don’t have the physical facility physical capacity the physical tool is not the body as a tool is not suited for eating so that sickness can be very very mortifying miserable so of course that sickness will go away and later on we will be able to eat but in the case of ghosts that’s their predicament for as long as they are in the ghostly existence you know they have subtle bodies filled with desires for enjoyment and they can you know subtle body also has senses so they can pursue they have the knowledge acquiring senses but they don’t have the working senses with which they can enjoy so they can perceive they can perceive say delicious objects they can perceive good looking forms but they can’t enjoy any of it so that’s why out of the desperate desire to get things get something done to get some enjoyment when some souls are tamasic some souls are living tamasic modes then the ghost possess that person and when the ghost possess that person and that person starts acting in acting in frightened ways acting in suddenly altered ways sometimes you know when a person is possessed that person may speak also in a different voice although the body is same the person who is speaking is different and that person may speak not just in a different voice but completely have different behaviour and there are well documented cases of even respected researchers the Darwin’s theory of evolution which is considered to be a watershed moment in the widespread in the spread of atheism that was actually proposed by Darwin and another scientist Alfred Wallace so Alfred Wallace also did a lot of study in spiritism in the study of spirits and he writes which I have quoted about him also he says that I have spent the better part of my life using my best intelligence to study this and what I conclude is I don’t expect you to believe what I am saying but all that I expect you is to doubt the infallibility of your own preconceptions doubt the infallibility of your own preconceptions that means don’t assume that you know everything already and that you already know the correct thing that no ghosts exist just be open-minded so there are many people who have done research and they have come up with a significant evidence so that the Karma Prabhu in his book called human devolution talks about evidence for the existence of subtle realm so there is matter there is mind and there is consciousness so the evidence for consciousness is in past life memories near the experiences and the evidence for mind is in various things there are random number generators whose number pattern can be changed by the effect of concentrated focus that’s mind affecting matter and he also gives example of ghosts so there can be actually three levels there is a communications apparitions and possessions communications means that sometimes people get some message like there’s a planchette now there’s some mediums and in person starts moving a hand and some message gets written on it and it is said that some ghostly being some spirit is possessing that person and the person is writing something that’s plan so that’s communication some people act as mediums and the ghostly beings communicate through them that is one level second is apparitions apparitions means people see something some relative has died and suddenly the other relatives they see like that person appearing that’s called apparition and if you go there you find other thing there but then you see the outline so it could of course in some cases be illusion but in some cases there are researchers which indicate that multiple people have seen it so it’s apparition and then there is possession so possession is the strongest intervention so in communication there is nothing seen but some person’s hand is moved or a person speaks as a person’s hand is moved and planchette something gets communicated apparition something is seen whereas in communication what happens in a possession the person enters in now there are examples of how devotees uh in their places so people can get possessed and houses can get haunted so if a if a play if a house is considered to be a place where a where a ghost lives and that house is considered to be haunted so people can get possessed houses can get haunted and devotees have gone to various places for example when the devotees were living in john lennon’s estate so at that time is reputed a certain area where there was haunted so devotees went and did kirtan and then the people who were the gardeners and others were living there were scared of going there also but then they did kirtan and everybody could feel a increase of the pressure in that situation as if the ghosts were resisting not wanting to leave from there and suddenly they felt a release of the pressure the ghost left over there and after that they never had any disturbances so if we live in goodness and especially if we practise devotion then we can we we don’t have to be afraid of being possessed by ghosts and we don’t have to be apprehensive or paranoid about such things and even if somebody’s possessing that person chants regularly then the ghosts will go away anyway our point is we are not discussing about ghosts per se over here our point is that and those in ignorance worship ghosts you know there is suhotra swamy one of his consignances wrote a book called you know an article in back to world called extrasensory deception you know extrasensory perception is some people have the capacity if somebody you give an envelope then without opening the envelope people can read what is the content of them that’s called clairvoyance some people have that sort of extrasensory perception but there are others who have extrasensory deception extrasensory deception means that people are seem to be getting some knowledge from some higher being but often the knowledge that they are getting is not from a higher being it’s from a lower being so there are people who say that there are many popular authors who say that actually i am not writing this there is some spirit who is guiding me and whatever that spirit tells me i am speaking that so now that spirit is not necessarily a higher being that spirit can be a lower being and that spirit may spread thomasic knowledge so some people may even worship they were ghosts and ghostly beings so by that they try to get some powers because the ghosts as i said they can they are lower in terms of the their capacity for spiritual evolution and the receptivity towards spiritual knowledge but they are more powerful than us because they exist at a level and they can if they are a piece they can give power to some person but they can take control of that person also when so when somebody worships a ghost that ghost gives power but the ghost can takes control of that person also so that is thomasic worship so now what is a preta there is a slight difference between the preta and a bhuta let’s look at this yeah so what happens is in the soul along with the subtle body leaves so normally it’s only soul and subtle body and that is a bhuta but when the soul is going to get an x body so during the transition the garuda purana explains that the soul gets another body it’s a transition body that is grosser than the subtle body and subtler than the gross body so with that transition body the soul goes so then normally a person on death becomes a preta so everybody becomes a preta the soul with a subtle body and a transition body and then that’s and in the scriptures it is described that when the pun pindadaan is performed so normally uh food is given in the pindadaan so when the food is given what happens it is said that by a process of subtle uh subtle transubstantiation transubstantiation means by subtle change of characteristics of things the food that is offered in the pindadaan in the rituals that food goes towards making the next body of the person and this is of course not for devotees to do because devotees are their by krishna but the idea is pindadaan what is the purpose of this so when the pindadaan is complete then it is said that the soul’s next body gets prepared by that and then the preta becomes a pitra pitra means ancestor so preta after pindadaan becomes a pitra now we discussed earlier what is pitraloka it’s not that all ancestors go to pitraloka it depends on if a person lived a life the person will go to pitraloka that is a normal expected destination for ancestor if they are living our life of average piety in vedic culture if somebody does extraordinary piety that person will go to swarga and if this person does terrible impiety that person will go to naraka so so those are ignorance they worship the the devatas sorry the pretas and bhutas so prabhupada writes in the purport how people worship anyone and everyone during the second world war a man in calcutta worship hitler because thanks to the war he had amassed a large amount of money by dealing in the black market so this is ignorant worship this is an example of non-scriptural worship and then prabhupada talks about pancha upasana this is a complex subject i’ll try to explain it as briefly as possible over here from a historical perspective and then from a from the perspective of how bhaktivinoda thakura explained it so what is pancha upasana so upasana means to worship pancha means five so historically speaking in shankaracharya united before shankaracharya buddhism and jainism had spread practically all over the world all over the country and so buddhism and jainism they both started approximately about fifth century bc a few centuries back and forth and then they gradually spread spread spread and then that many kings especially after ashoka became buddha then he used all the national resources all the state resources at his command to spread buddhism vigorously and many kings became buddhists so much so that you know janaka writes strongly cautioning kings against the influence of buddhism because his understanding was that buddhism is a where is a religion that is focused on too much on negation of the world and rejection of the world and kings have to be responsible they have to be competent they have to be acting in the world if the kings are renunciates then the kings cannot really be responsible for competent and diligent administration of the world so after this so anyway shankaracharya came and spread vedic culture so that time he saw that whoever were following vedic culture they were having a wide variety of different kinds of worships they were doing so he said that basically the vedas talk about different deities so you can worship these five primary deities so what is panchapasana there is vishnu there is shiva there is the goddess there is surya and there is ganesha so these five you you can worship and these five they basically the idea is now the idea was that of course now shankaracharya was a covered personalist that means he has written many songs like bhaja govindam where he talks about devotion but as far as his philosophy that was taught he taught advaita vedanta and his philosophical understanding was that ultimately the philosophical understanding which he propagated at that time was that beyond beyond these forms of various gods is the impersonal brahman that is the highest reality so the understanding of panchapasana in that case was that one worships so that one goes beyond form to formless so these are the five ishtadevatas one can choose whichever ishtadevata one likes worship that ishtadevata and by worshipping that ishtadevata one will move ahead and go beyond matter to spirit go will attain spiritual reality eventually so the idea was you could choose whichever one one wants to worship that is the idea of panchapasana now panchapasana is different from pancharatrika vidhi pancharatrika vidhi is about riti worship it is about how the when the lord manifests in the riti how is to be worshipped but panchapasana is about these five kinds of devatas five devatas and whichever one one wants to worship so prabhupada talks about panchapasana over here also and now bhaktunathakur gives a very intriguing explanation of panchapasana in his book let us look at that explanation yeah so what bhaktunathakur explains is these five how panchapasana elevates as explained by bhaktunathakur so he says that there are these five kinds of worshippers shaktas shouryas gana patya shaivite and vaishnavas so this there is a gradual progression from shaktas to vaishnavas so what happens in the case of shakti means energy or nature now energy is present in nature so these are nature worshippers nature worshippers means their understanding is that oh that is a nature that is providing nature that is arranging everything and we have to understand we have to worship nature so in a broad way we could say that scientists are nature worshippers they are shaktas in a sense because they just in shakti one just sees shakti one just sees matter and energy and one doesn’t see anything beyond that beyond material nature so that is shaktas now when a person starts when a person of say a person is a tribal without much access to spiritual knowledge is living uh that person starts looking around in nature there are so many powerful things you know when i work so hard to build a house and tack one lightning bolt and the whole house is destroyed it’s devastating so nature has so much power so i bow down to the power of nature that’s the first stage in the evolution of the worship then after that the next stage is one moves forward and one thinks okay nature has all this power there is lightning and there are rains and there are storms where is all this power coming from ultimately it is coming from the sun sun is the source of all power there is a source of all energy therefore the sun should be worshipped so one moves from matter in terms of material phenomena to energy which activates this metal phenomena so this is now when people are worshipping surya they may not be thinking about all these things but bhaktivinoda thakur explained that this is the programme by which the evolution can take place so that is sauryas sauryas are those who worship surya now after that one starts thinking okay okay all this is fine but beyond that okay i see nature i see energy but then i see also energetic beings no we see we see powerful beings like lions and tigers and bottomless and whales and elephants so they have such majestic power so there is matter and there is energy combined together that is so then one starts worshipping some one starts worshipping that one says some higher reality manifested in the form of an animal that is what is the terminology of philosophy called as zoomorphism so zoomorphism means morphize form morphize forms who is animal so worshipping of the absolute truth in the form of animal so one understand that supervising nature energy is an animal like being so now ganapati has elephant like head so one starts with one gramme ganapatya so now the idea is that it’s not that people all over the world who come to this conclusion will necessarily be worshipping ganesh but the ganesh like worship is corresponding to this level of consciousness worship of somebody like ganesh is corresponding to this level of consciousness so basically through this panchopasana the consciousness is evolving evolving evolving gradually and then one starts thinking okay there is matter and there may be something which is beyond matter and that is so then that one comes to the level of shaivism so beyond all temporary matter is eternal spirit when one understand this then one comes to the level of impersonalism impersonalism means one understands that i have to go beyond matter to spirit but at this time one is thinking that spirit just matter has formed so spirit is formless so i have to go beyond form to formless and then one starts thinking okay then one comes to the level of vaishnavism so then there’s a conception of a human like being controlling all of existence what does it mean a human like being controlling all of existence that means one starts thinking that okay the i see that there is energy over here for example there is a government the government is controlling everyone now the government as it appears to an ignorant person is impersonal but we know that the government there is a person in charge of the government so like that one understands and one moves forward one step higher in one’s spiritual evolution so conception of a human like being controlling all existence that is vishnu that is vaishnavism now now there is one important point that bhaktivinoda thakur differentiates between material vaishnavism and transcendental vaishnavism now what does it mean how can we have material vaishnavism see when people’s consciousness is still materialistic they have not understood their own spiritual identity they have not understood that the existence of a transcendental reality they have not understood that god reigns supreme in the transcendental reality then even they are they’re practising vaishnavism their vaishnavism is affected by the modes that’s why if we study the third canto of shrimad bhagavatam there kapiladeva is instructing devahuti and there he describes bhakti in goodness bhakti in passion bhakti in ignorance and he talks about how when devotees keep quarrelling with each other that is bhakti in the mode of ignorance so when devotees practise bhakti to get name and fame power and prestige and that is bhakti in the mode of passion when devotees practise bhakti for the sake of liberation not for the sake of pleasure of krishna but for the sake of liberation that is in the mode of goodness and this is a rough analysis it’s quite technical over there but i’m just giving the point that uh stating the point here that bhakti in and of itself is transcendental but when we are practising bhakti that time we will practise bhakti within the modes so similarly vaishnavism can also be within the modes and that sort of vaishnavism is not universal that can be restrictive that can be divisive you know we see within is gone we say that krishna consciousness movement for the whole world you know hindus christians muslims pakistanis africans europeans all people can come and practise krishna consciousness but when it comes to actual practise we start saying you know now you should take anything from my guru only not your guru my guru is better than your guru my guru is indian guru your guru is american guru or my guru is this your guru is that so you know we know we may talk lofty things in philosophy but often in our practises we we tend to be quite divisive you know if i appreciate somebody and i expect that person should take anything from my guru and that person in most sides i want to take anything from some other guru then people get angry you know you’re betraying me i won’t betray he that was we never owned that person now we can’t legislate inspiration that person wants to take anything from somebody is inspired by somebody that person has complete right to take initiation so we can’t assume that because vaishnavism is transcendental our practise of vaishnavism is transcendental so bhaktanathakur explains that there is transcendental vaishnavism is the highest of all forms of worship so all these forms there this universal and one once one is oneself situated in the spiritual level of consciousness and one is when you situated a spiritual level of consciousness at that time one sees the true unity of all living beings and works for the welfare of all uh as uh on behalf of krishna so that is what will truly unify and bhaktanathakur explains that all the different forms of worship now he’s not talking specifically about the ganesh worshippers when he’s talking about gana patyas yes he’s talking about ganesh worshippers but along with that he’s making a point that the various systems of worship that are there all over the world they can be classed into these five levels and above them is transcendental vaishnavism where the pure spiritual soul serves the pure spiritual personal absolute with pure spiritual law that is completely transcendental and all systems of worship are gradually meant to take us it’s like a pyramid to the pinnacle to the top that is of pure devotional you know pure devotional love and the reality where this pure devotional love is eternally facilitated and relished so in this way this is this transcendence is the ultimate goal beyond all that we are practising so after discussing this we will discuss about the demonic way of worshipping in the next words demonic austerity in the next word experts in the next class thank