Can science be spiritual? Can spirituality be scientific?

I thank all the organisers of this programme for giving me the opportunity to speak on this topic. Can science be spiritual? And can spirituality be scientific? And of course, I thank all of you for coming here to share this discussion. It is a seminar that the name suggests.

It will be divided into two parts. Can science be spiritual in the first part? And can spirituality be scientific in the second part? So, can science be spiritual? In that, I will discuss primarily about what is science? When we use the word science and when we use the word spirituality, these are in many senses. So, the word science and the word spirituality can mean many different things to different people.

So, let us start with the semantics. What do we mean when we talk about science? And what do we mean when we talk about the word spirituality? Now, we can consider Newton to be among the most fundamental of all pioneering scientists. So, actually, if you look at Newton's own writing, he has never used the word science or scientist because that word had not evolved in that sense.

So, at that time, what Newton did was called a natural philosophy. So, the word science has evolved around 200 years ago. So, the word science has come into existence earlier.

But the sense in which we use it, we get 200 years ago. And in that also, there are multiple senses. So, first, what science is and what science is not.

We will try to discuss this. Many people think that we talk about soul, we talk about God. All this is unscientific.

Now, whether that is scientific or not, that is not a decision which science makes. Associated science is a school of thought that is called a scientism. Scientism is the idea that science has a monopoly on knowledge.

Means that whatever science is, is the ultimate truth. And there is no truth beyond what science is. So, this is not science.

This is scientism. Like we have communism, we have capitalism. So, this is an independent body of thought called a scientism.

So, Schrodinger and others, Arvind Schrodinger. So, what does he say? He is pointing out the limitation of scientism. Remember, he is a scientist.

And he has got nothing against science. But he is objectively pointing out the strengths and the limitations of science. I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient.

It gives a lot of factual information. Puts all our experience in a magnificently conclusive order. These are two strengths of science, very important strengths.

It gives a lot of factual information. When an object is falling down, what speed will it fall down? Today, we have telecommunications. We have internet.

And all this is by the virtue of science and its application technology. So, it gives a lot of factual information. We can talk with anyone, communicate with anyone.

Puts all our experience in a magnificently conclusive order. Now, one of the biggest developments in science was when Newton figured out that the motion on earth and the motion of the celestial objects in the sky operate on the same principles. So, the same laws of motion that apply for the earth, they apply for the celestial bodies also.

So, this is a magnificently conclusive order. But it is vastly silent. Above all, it is hungry.

That is really new to our heart. That really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight.

It knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad. War and injustice. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions of these domains.

But the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take these things. Now, what Schrodinger is saying by this, he is obviously a Muggle-like scientist. He is proud of science.

And he has a reason to be proud. But he also recognises, over time, that science is his hermeneutical knowledge. I mean, a medical scientist is meant to relieve people from pain and disease.

But in all of medical science, we do not have anything called a pain metre. We may have a pain scale in which we subjectively infer. But the pain is something which cannot be measured.

If I have a fracture, the extent of the angular displacement can be measured. But the amount of pain that I am experiencing, that cannot be quantified. So, now just because we cannot quantify or measure pain with science, does that mean that pain doesn't exist? It doesn't exist.

It's a reality. In fact, removing pain is one of the primary objectives of science. So it is definitely a reality.

If we have a neurosurgeon who is extremely proficient in understanding and operating to cure brain problems, he comes back home. And he finds that his wife is upset with him. So will he do a brain scan to find out what is wrong with her? No, he won't.

There, we need a different methodology for acquiring knowledge. The relationship. And for a relationship, there is a different way to understand a person's emotions.

That's why I say, red and blue, bitter and sweet, pain and delight, these are things which science is not talking about. Now, move further. This is a conversation between Warren Heisenberg and Albert Einstein.

This is also quoted in Ignited Minds by our former president. So he says, you know in the West, we have built a large, beautiful ship. It has all the comforts in it.

But one thing is this, we have no comforts and we do not know where to go. So science in and of itself does not tell us about the ultimate purpose of life. Science can tell us, okay, if you want to go here, this is the way.

You can go by car, you can go by plane, you can go by spacecraft. But where to go? You have to go. These are decisions which we take with our conscience, our morals, our intelligence.

And these are different. So Albert Einstein says further, all religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. So all religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.

I mean, what is the tree? The tree is the human heart, the human head. The human being is in it. So human beings have used their faculties in various directions.

So science is one very significant, remarkable faculty in which human beings are involved. Similarly, there are other faculties. So those people who say that spirituality is unscientific, what are they doing exactly? They are extrapolating science beyond its valid domain.

Science has its domain and spirituality has its domain. If we extrapolate one field from its domain to somewhere else, then what happens? So here, I'll give an example of non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data. Let me illustrate this first and I'll explain it.

So suppose a student is on an experiment and we have got three results. Now based on these three results, we can plot, actually just adjust the points a little bit, and we can have an infinite number of graphs going through those three points. So we could have any number of graphs going through those set of three points and all of them would be consistent with the observation.

But is this shape of the graphs necessitated by the observations? No, it is not. So this is an example of non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data. Let me give another example.

Suppose there were some distant planet where there is light and the living beings of that planet decides to send an expedition to Earth to find out who are the residents on Earth. And suppose a US alien, a little green being comes to this hall and is hovering in the background while the seminar is going on. And then he is in the seminar for two hours and then goes back and reports that the population of Earth comprises of largely males and females in the age group of 20 to 21.

Is that true? The observation is true, the extrapolation is not. The US alien has observed for a finite time and for a finite period. For a finite, over a finite period, yes.

The alien, they, let us hope it works now. So we have non-scientific extrapolation or scientific observation. So the observation is valid when it is done over a limited space and a limited time.

So similarly, what science has observed in the remarkable advances of science have been over the last 200, 300 years. They are significant, no doubt. But I am saying if we look at the vastness of space, how much have we observed it? In the vicinity of the Earth, maybe the solar system, but not much beyond that.

So beyond that, is the void consistent behind? No. So is this working? You don't understand? Fine. I am sorry for this interruption.

Let us hope that you got that properly now. So again, my point here is not at all to criticise science. It is to recognise the glory of the human element.

It is not a minimisation of science. It is the glorification of the human being and the human spirit. But the human being and the human spirit has developed not just in science, but in many other fields.

And to let scientism monopolise the human spirit, it is minimisation of the human spirit and the human being. So in this way, if we reduce everything to scientism, then we miss out on the rich developments that the human beings have done in several other fields. So we could have multiple graphs like this.

So is there something beyond science? There is a reality of mind. There are emotions. There is soul.

There is God. So there is a broad physical reality. Lots of material reality.

And beyond that, there is a higher reality, which is not accessible by current science. I didn't mean it is un-scientific, but the current science is not able to access it. So here is another illustration of this.

So if I am using a computer, a computer has three levels. There is the hardware. There is the software.

And there is the user. So like that, even our existence is three-dimensional. There is gross material that's called physical.

Then there is subtle material or mental. And there is spiritual. So science largely studies the gross material or physical reality.

Then beyond that, there is a subtle material or mental reality. And beyond that, there is a spiritual reality. And the totality of all this is studied by spirituality.

So spirit is the source of gross matter and subtle matter. And spirituality studies all of reality. So let's look at this one from another perspective.

So here, when we see these jurisdictions, we understand that science has a jurisdiction. Spirituality has a jurisdiction. So science and its knowledge has progressed enormously.

But let us try to understand the nature of this progress. So the progress has been there. Now you see at the two ends, there are some things that are beyond knowledge.

Now the spiritual is so, how science and knowledge progress. So it progresses in one dimension. It means vertical.

But laterally, it's not progressing. That means we have got tremendous capacity to manipulate matter. The kind of telecommunications, the kind of use of technology for internet, SMS, social network that we have, that were inconceivable 1500 years ago.

So that very distinct friendship will definitely be given. But in terms of understanding ourselves, who we are, what our emotions are, how we are to be dealt with. So with all our technology today, do we have any medicine that can cure anger? A person gets angry.

We all know that anger is undesirable. We hurt ourselves, we hurt others when we are angry. And is there any medicine? Just give that medicine and anger will go away.

No, we don't have anything. Now in India, corruption is such a big. Corruption comes because of greed.

Now do we have any medicine? We are not directly using this medicine for the low part. Just give the medicine, greed will go. We don't have anything.

So science helps us to improve things. Spirituality helps us to improve people. Science helps us to improve things.

Science improves things, spirituality improves people. One of the biggest causes of avoidable death in America is obesity. Obesity is, now obesity has multiple causes.

One cause is genetic, another cause is sociocultural. But it's largely a behavioural choice. So what is happening? Now if you look at weighing machines, traditionally on railway stations, there was big weighing machines on which we stand and we put in some coins and then the ticket comes out.

There are smaller weighing machines where doctors will stand on a circuit and the weight is zero. Now there are very small portable weighing machines, which you can travel around in and you just put one foot on them for a few seconds and the weight flashes away. So by the virtue of science and technology, the weighing machines are becoming smaller and smaller and smaller.

But the people on the weighing machines are becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. They are becoming bigger and bigger. So now unfortunately science itself cannot help people control themselves.

So obesity, one of the major causes is people overeat. So science cannot help people to regulate themselves. Science will do some bariatric surgery to try to artificially cure the obesity.

But that has its own complications. So what I'm talking about is that the outer world is the inner world. So we can control the outer world through science.

But to control the inner world, we need spirituality. And that part is beyond knowledge, no matter how much science progresses. So God and all the students are outside.

And science is based on assumptions and axioms. And it leads to incomplete understanding. What is incomplete understanding? It is silent about existence, purpose and value.

Existence, purpose and value means, what is the ultimate purpose of man? What is right? What is not? Who decides this? You know, Hitler was very proud of science. And many of his Nazi ideology was using science. There are books which talk about how Darwin's theory of evolution was the survival of the fittest.

The struggle for existence. And Hitler's biography was Mienkamp, my struggle. So he has drawn direct parallels.

And he was a proponent of an idea called social Darwinism. It was just that there is struggle between species. So he had the idea that struggle between races.

And the fittest race should survive. And his idea was the Nazi race is the fittest. The unfit races are going to die.

And his idea of the Jew race is unfit race. So anyway, evolution is going to kill them. But we will help evolution along the way with our gas chambers.

So that was his idea. So now, from the scientific perspective, we can't decide what is right or wrong. With our human sense, we understand killing 5 million Jews is barbaric.

But science itself does not give us that. Science doesn't tell us what is right, what is wrong. So science needs to be complemented with other branches of knowledge, which tell us about existence, purpose, and value.

So here, I will quote a few scientists. In my book, Science and Spirituality, I have given more than two dozen scientists quotes. Here, I will just quote Michael Faraday as we know.

He said, we ought to have the privilege of knowing God's truth. Far beyond anything we can have in this world. So God's truth is the purpose, value, why we exist, how we should live.

In India alone, mathematical genius Srinath Narayan said, an equation for me has no meaning until it represents a thought of God. It represents a thought of God. Einstein postulated E is equal to mc squared.

It was the most brilliant insight in modern science. The idea of interchangeability of matter and energy. But he did not make that equation.

Who made E is equal to mc squared? That is God. So an equation is a thought of God. Now it is, to some extent, an ironic demonstration of the misdirection of human progress that the greatest insight of the greatest brain of the 20th century led to the greatest man-made disaster of the 20th century.

The greatest insight of the greatest brain was Einstein's discovery of E is equal to mc squared. But that itself led to the development of the atom bomb. And the atom bomb, the bomb was used by Nagasaki.

It was a terrible disaster. Einstein after that himself went to Japan to give some reading. And he regretted the day when he sent a letter to President Eisenhower saying that, you know, America should develop to be man-made.

So the point is that time cannot tell us what to do next. So equation is a thought of God. Now Arthur Compton in his novel, Lord of the Rings, he says, an orderly infinite universe testifies to the greatest statement ever uttered, in the beginning, God.

So God is the source of everything. Similarly, Ernst Boris Chisholm's novel, Lord of Medicine, the principle of divine purpose stares the biologist in the face where the universe. Since nuclear technicality was invented, probability was to be invented by the origin of DNA molecules.

To have occurred by sheer chance is just too small to be seriously considered. Then there is Max Born, more categorical in the novel, Lord of Physics. Those who say that the study of science makes a man an atheist must be rather greedy people.

So the point is mainly, science points towards spirituality. We are direct paragons that there is no incompatibility between science and humanity. Science shows that God exists.

These are all novelists. Christian Amsterdam, one novelist comes to me and says, I think only an idiot can be an atheist. And Albert Einstein says, I only trace the line that broke the law.

Trace the line that broke the law. So science can be spiritual if it is seen in an open-minded way, without allowing it to monopolise the human spirit. So now let's look at the scientific investigations.

So Dr. Ian Stevenson is a pioneer in the scientific study of past lives. So this picture is based on a work he has been pioneering. It talks about how the soul is changing the body.

Soul is changing the body within the same age, but still the energy is still in the body after this existence. So Ian Stevenson studied thousands upon thousands of cases all over the world. In a career that spanned over 60 years, and he travelled over six continents, and interviewed over 50,000 people.

So in his, he has written several books, fairly well-researched books, 20 cases history of reincarnation was one of his first books, where reincarnation biology intersect was one of his biggest books. It's a tome where he does exhaustive research. So he has found, and he was a pioneer, and I'll tell him there are many other researchers that I've studied.

So he has found four levels of evidences. The first is recollections, second is recognitions, third is behaviour, fourth is birthmarks. What does this mean? Recollections means, there are some child say, born in India.

And the child is born in India, has never been to North India, and has never met any North Indians, and still remembers little details of some place they can't move. I was born here, and I was doing this, and I was doing that. Actually, I have written a full book on this topic, the history of reincarnation.

And I have a separate seminar. I can't go into all the details of that. I just give some sketches of the kind of cases that he has discovered.

So recollections is remarkably accurate memories that could not have been acquired by normal beings. And most of these children, they get the memories between the ages of four to six. And most of these children are either in the rural areas, even if they are in the urban areas, he did his studies before the time of internet.

So children at the age of four to six, they can't get knowledge of places far away from them very easily, especially none of their relatives know about the place. So first is recollections. These themselves are remarkable.

Second is recognitions. So sometimes, when the children say, you know, there's a mummy, papa, I want to go to my other mummy, papa. So the parents are shocked.

What are you talking about? The children insist, no, I want to go. And then the parents do some preliminary enquiries. And they find out.

So, okay, there's a child, he's a man. There was one boy, D2. So he's Punjabi.

And he said that my mother, no, he was a small boy. He was maybe three, four years old. He said that I'm married.

And I have a wife. And my wife and I own an electrical shop in Kanpur. He was in Lucknow.

And his parents were shocked to hear this. And they said, what is it? He said the name of my electrical shop is Verma Electrical Studio. And then his parents did an enquiry.

And they found actually, there was a Verma Electrical Studio. And he said, my wife's, now this three-year-old boy, the same, not three, four-year-old. He's saying my wife's name is Lata.

And they found that that Verma Electrical Studio was run by a widow named Lata Verma. And then when they took this boy actually there, they took the boy there. He just, he had never been to that city.

But he himself got out. How many children are scared when they go to the police? He got out the train himself and he led his parents, come. And he asked the Tonga to stop.

And got in the Tonga, take us there. And he went there. Now when a small four-year-old child sees some other woman for the first time, he's a little shy.

But he still went into the shop. And he said, this elderly lady, he's saying, Lata, why have you changed the shop so much like this? Shop was like this. This woman was shocked.

And then they went to meet the relatives. Now this boy, he told, you should, he told Lata, you should sit next to me. Like a husband sits next to a wife.

And he knew so many details about their life. And then he also described, this Suresh Varma had been shot in a murder case. So that brings us to the next point also, which I'll explain in more detail.

So this Suresh Varma, he had just come back home. And somebody had shot him blank, with a bullet in his car itself. So there was an entry wound on one side of his temple and an exit wound on the other.

And then this programme was broadcast on BBC. It's called 40 Minutes. So the case of double birthmarks.

Double birthmarks. So this Titu, right from his childhood, he had a birthmark, a swelling on his right temple and a larger swelling on the left temple. Normally when a bullet comes in, it comes in from a smaller point.

And as it moves inside and goes out, it creates a bigger wound. So there was a smaller birthmark on the right side and a bigger birthmark on the left side. And then in this programme, the light, the video is also there.

So his head was shaved. Exactly two birthmarks away. And because it was a murder case, there was a postmortem report with the police.

And there is path life researchers who did the research. They actually located exactly where were the fatal wounds in Suresh Varma. And exactly at the same place on Titu's body, there were these birthmarks.

So birthmarks are the most objective of evidences. Objective of evidences. Why objective? They can be measured.

They can be located. They can be quantified. Now, science knows that there are, the causes of birthmarks are limited.

But the occurrence of birthmarks is much more. So birthmarks can occur because of genetic factors. Parents have some causes, something, some problems for the birthmarks.

The second cause could be that the mother during pregnancy is undernourished or is sick or takes, takes, smokes or takes alcohol or drugs. So all these can cause birthmarks. But in more than 60% of the cases where birthmarks are there, none of these factors are present.

So immediately these birthmarks are not there. So Ian Stevenson has done some study of twins. Now twins are of two types, monozygotic and pythagorean.

Pythagorean. So monozygotic twins are, exactly genetic content is the same. Now when the genetic content is the same, the physical feature should be the same.

But he has found in the monozygotic twins, there are not only different behaviours, but one twin has a birthmark, another twin doesn't have a birthmark. And this twin remembers, now I was so and so and I was, I died in so and so. So these birthmarks, and there's not just one, not just two.

So what Dr. Ian Stevenson did is, he divided the whole body, the cross section of the body, divided into one 14, 128 sections based on XY coordinate system. And then he accurately mapped what is the location of the foetal room in the previous life, and what is the location of the birthmark in this life. And he found with a 128 coordinate system, he's dividing the body in 128 ways.

He can divide it at various levels, depending on the calculus that he wants. 128 is quite reducible for the body. Quite significant level like this.

And he found that the location of the birthmark and birthdeck, is precise. Now along with that, there is behaviours. Behaviours means what? There are three levels of behaviours with a birthmark.

One is phobias. If some child say, I died because of being, because I'm following the river. In the next life, the child has hyperphobia.

So it's extremely paranoid about water. So Dr. Brian Weeks is another researcher, who has treated and cured many people, based on hypnotic regression with their past life memory, and treating them for their phobias. Now phobias can come from various causes, but even more mysterious, is a phenomenon called as xenoglossy.

Glossy is language. There is no language in speech or in writing. Xenoglossy means knowledge of foreign languages.

So there are children, who at the age of four, five, six, the children at that age are just learning the language, with their parents who speak. But yet there are many cases of people, of children, who speak languages, not just information. In recollections, there's information.

But in behaviour, there's systematic knowledge of language. So, there was a girl born in Maharashtra. All her relatives and acquaintances were Marathi.

And she was speaking fluent Bengali. And she said, she had been born in Bengal in her previous life, and she had been a housewife, and she had died because of snakebite. And her fiancé went and did the studies.

And he found that actually, there was a lady in that area. She had died of a snakebite. So, these are all progressively stronger levels of evolution.

Recollections, recognitions, behaviour, and birthmarks. So now, what this indicates is, the concept of soul is definitely compatible with scientific research, if it is done in an open-minded way. So, can science be spiritual? Yes, it can.

Now, let's look at the second part. Can spirituality be scientific? So, we'll talk to Dr. Willer Benckley for the conclusion of this. He's a Nobel laureate neurosurgeon, one of the pioneers.

And he said, the brain is a computer, but it is programmed by something that is outside itself. Now, he did some significant experiments. Now, we may say, oh, I don't remember my past life.

How can I know? Actually, all of us have a very volatile memory. We tend to forget things. But this is an experiment which is repeatable.

So, what was the experiment? You know, scientists have found that when certain areas of the brain are triggered, then certain activities in the body start. For example, a particular area of the brain is triggered, a hand rises. A particular area of the brain is triggered, a hand falls.

So, Dr. Benckley decided to do some experiments. And he told a subject, raise your hand. He said, what happened? He said, my hand went down.

Did you raise your hand? He said, yes, I did. And he observed which area of the brain was activated. Put your hand up.

Put your hand up. And then he artificially activated that area of the brain. Hand up.

What happened? He said, my hand went up. Did you raise your hand? He said, no, I didn't raise my hand. You raised your hand.

He said, your hand, how can I raise it? He said, you did the trick. So, now, whatever part of the brain might be activated, the patient, the subject never said that I am raising the hand. You are raising it.

Simple experiment, but what does it indicate? He said, implications are very profound. Just like, if I have a computer and if I have a printer over here. The printer has a hand which prints out data.

Now, it's my computer. I press the print command. I press the print command.

And then the printer hand starts moving. So, now, in this case, somebody asked me, OK, the printer is printing because I pressed the print command. Now, say, if you come along and you press the print command.

Then also the printer hand will start moving and you print it. But then I will say, I didn't print it. You printed it.

It's my computer, but you used it to print. So, similarly, the body is like the printer hand. The hand is like an appendage.

The brain is like the processor which gives the command. But which initiates the command. The brain is starting the command.

So, Wilter Penfield raised the question. In the second case, it was I, the doctor, who was activating the brain. So, that the hand would rise.

So, who was activating the brain in the first case? In the second case, it was the doctor, the neurosurgeon. And in that case, the patient, the subject was saying, I'm not doing it. But in the first case, the subject is saying, I'm doing it.

In both cases, the brain is getting activated. After that, the hand is getting activated. But who is activating the brain? In the first, second case, it's Dr. Penfield.

First case, who is it? That activator is not in the brain. That activator is outside. So, the brain is the computer.

That's how he came to this conclusion. The brain is the computer, but it's programmed by something that is outside itself. That something is the soul.

So, now, let's talk about, can spirituality be science? So, spirituality is a higher dimension of science. In science, we have theory and experiment. Theory and experiment.

So, Newton observed the fruit fall. Most people, when the fruit falls down, they pick it and eat it and go. But what did Newton do? Why did the fruit fall? There is observation, there is contemplation.

Based on that, a piece of a theory. And then, okay, if there is a code that says every particle will matter, that is, the code between different particles will matter, that is, that is the code Newton had. After that, he must be promoting spread of the existence of the law.

Then that should happen everywhere. Not just in London. Not just in Europe or Africa or Australia.

Not just Newton, but anyone. That is the experiment to confirm or refute the theory. So, similarly, in spirituality, there are two aspects.

There is philosophy, which is like the theory aspect of science. And there is religion, which is like the experiment aspect of science. So, philosophy proposes.

Philosophers and theory proposes. At the standard of proposing, there is this force and this force acts. Similarly, philosophy proposes.

What does it say? Actually, our essential being is not to be. We are not our body. We are souls.

And the soul has a determined relationship with God. In that relationship with God, there is supreme fulfilment. There is the greatest happiness of life.

This is philosophy. Now, how can I verify or refute the philosophy? For that, there is religion. There is philosophy and there is religion.

Now, philosophy is intellectual. Religion is experiential. There is a fundamental difference between spirituality and modern science.

Modern science is experimental. Experimental means I keep the object outside me. I mix acid in the outside and see what happens.

I get salt in the water. So, like that, the object can be kept outside and observed. But in spirituality, it is experiential.

We do the experiment on ourselves. It is experiential. So, now this is Shrila Prabhupada, the founder of the SCOAN.

So, he explains philosophy without religion is just mental speculation. So, if there is spirituality and there are two dimensions. So, they are just simply philosophy.

Bhagavan doesn't practise anything. So, that is just mental speculation. I think it is like this.

You think it is like that. Maybe God exists. People sit on an armchair and when they hand out food on their head, maybe that's God exists.

Maybe God exists. Maybe God doesn't exist. But anyway, I have got this bottle of alcohol.

The pleasure in alcohol is liquidated. So, the whole conception is there is no practise to verify or refute what is going on. So, it is just mental speculation.

And similarly, religion without philosophy is just sentimentalism or fanaticism. So, religion without philosophy, that means in India, for example, any person who just maybe speaks something transparent, tells some traditional story, has a long beard, people start venerating that person as a godman. And they start bowing down to him, worshipping him.

This is all sentimentalism. And as I have written in my book on Oh My God, I have experienced it. It is true that there are many people in the religious field who are accepted as authority although they have no authority and exposing them is desirable.

So, then why do people accept it, this kind of people? It's just like a child. A child has known that a doctor wears a white cloak. So, a child, anytime he sees anybody wearing a white cloak, the child thinks, oh, this is a doctor.

But a white cloak doesn't make a doctor. That's medical knowledge which makes a person a doctor. Similarly, it's not just a dress or a beard or just some sweet singing ability that makes a spiritual teacher.

It is the inner knowledge, the inner realisation, the purity of heart and purity of life that makes a spiritual teacher. So, it can be sentimentalism or it can become fanaticism. And there is a religion without philosophy.

So, the idea is, my way is the only way. If you don't follow my way, you will go to hell. That is fanaticism.

It just happens because there is a religion divorced from philosophy. But when both are together, philosophy and religion are together, then spirituality becomes a science of inner transformation. Inner transformation.

So, how does inner transformation take place? I'll talk two more points. I have a long seminar, but I'll go to the proper question-answer after these two points. This is a further explanation of how spirituality offers profound philosophical understanding.

There is this phenomenon of reincarnation. I mentioned that a person goes from one body to another body. How does this happen? There is an associated phenomenon called as near-death experiences.

Have any of you heard about near-death experiences? What happens is, when people are near death, they have a heart attack or something, and during the surgery, they see themselves from above. There was one surgery done by Dr. Spengler. And it was a surgery done by one lady, Pam, and now she had a brain aneurysm.

Brain aneurysm means, at the bottom of her brain, there was a swelling. And now this, at the bottom of the brain, to operate it is nearly impossible. So, Dr. Spengler had pioneered a surgery called SANSTIP.

So, what you would do is, induce an artificial heart attack. Harvest the blood. The body stops circulating blood.

Then, drain all the blood out of the body. Then, after that, put the whole body in deep freeze. And then, open the skull.

And take out the brain. And then, after that, go to the bottom of the brain, find the aneurysm, find the swelling, and operate it. So, this is an extremely risky surgery.

And by no definition of conception or definition of science, can a person, in that situation, where the heart is not beating, the brain is not functioning, that person is for all practical purposes dead. So, after that aneurysm is removed, the brain is put back. Then, the blood is put back inside the body.

And then, the heart is resuscitated. And then, the person starts coming back to consciousness. So, now when, this Pam had been given this sort of operation stance for surgery.

During that time, she, after she came back to consciousness, she described, Doctor, I heard what all you were talking. I saw, she said, I saw that my head had been cut off in a very peculiar way. And I was very disturbed to see that actually there was a surgery that was to be done for my brain, but somebody was operating in my groyne area.

And then, I heard a voice saying that, her veins are too small. So, the doctors wanted to have a method for bypassing in case something went wrong with the heart. So, there was a female cardiac surgeon, cardiac specialist was also there.

And the doctor's mentor told him, no, you try on the other side, try on the other leg. And then, they were done. And she described in detail, what happened during that surgery.

So, Doctor Spengler, when he was introduced, he said that there is just no brain. That is medically, the person is being observed. So, the heart is not beating, the brain is not functional, there is no blood in the body.

How can the person be conscious? So, how can the person conscious at that time? That means, consciousness does not come from the brain. Consciousness comes from the brain. And another set of researchers, who have done similar experiments in blind people.

So, the blind people, they have never been able to see throughout their lives. But in the case of the surgery, in the case when they have been unconscious, at that time, they have been able to see themselves from outside the body. So, their eyes are not functioning, they are able to see.

How is that? When the soul comes out of the body, the soul observes. Soul observes, then the soul transforms. So, now, we may wonder, okay, all this soul business is there.

How does it make any difference in my life? It makes a big difference in our life because of several reasons. So, what do you see over here? You see a mercury being used for throwing. Now, what will happen when a mercury is used for throwing? Three things will happen.

The mercury will get spoiled, the field will get spoiled and the driver will get frustrated. Isn't it? So, when we are spiritual beings and instead of living spiritually, if we live materialistically, then what happens? These three things happen. Although we are spiritual beings, if we live only materialistically, then we spoil our environment, we spoil our body and we ourselves become frustrated.

So, let us look at some scientific statistics which show that the more society has become materialistic, the more people are becoming frustrated. This is a book called American Paradox, Spiritual Hunger in the Age of Plenty. And so, it describes that from 1960 to today, the divorce rate has doubled, the teen suicide rate has tripled, the violence crime rate has quadrupled, the prison population has quintupled, the percentage of babies born outside marriage has extupled to 6 times and depression has soared to 10 times the pre-World War II level.

So, what does this indicate? People are frustrated. Why? It's science that has only advanced you so much. Why are you frustrated? Because spiritual dimension is missing.

People are not getting enough happiness. And in contrast, if a Mercedes is used for driving on a smooth road, the Mercedes will move very smoothly. So, what have researchers found? I am stating something.

This is a book called The Handbook of Original Health, published by several hundred researchers from Oxford University Press. And what have they found? They have reviewed several thousand cases. And they found that people who attended a spiritual programme at least once a week lived seven years longer than those who didn't attend at all.

They found that religious youth showed significantly lower levels of drug and alcohol abuse, premature sexual involvement, criminal frequency, drug and alcohol crime, and suicide tendencies than their non-religious counterparts. Then, this is for young people. Then for older people, elderly people with deep religious faith have a stronger sense of well-being and life satisfaction than their less religious peers.

So, for young people, for older people, for everybody, religion makes a positive influence in their lives. And the conclusion of their study was, coming from another researcher, they said, a high SQ faithfulness to God appears to benefit people of all means, educational level and ages. That means, if we want to examine in the core of experience, religion brings about a positive influence in people's lives.

So, it's an experiential science, which all of us can experience, experiment with through experience, and get a positive change. So, I'll conclude with how India has the most greatest spiritual culture. So, here we have Max Maxing for religion, God is at the beginning.

For science, God is at the end. So, after so many years of research, scientists come to the conclusion that belief in God, belief in soul, belief spiritually, is beneficial for us. So, this Dr. Anand Taubi, he is a historian, it is already becoming clear that a chapter which has a Western meaning will have to have an Indian meaning, it is not to end in some destructive ways.

And this will bring you into a certain history, the only way of salvation for mankind is an Indian being. So, India has the world's greatest spiritual history. Aishwarya Prabhupada, the founder of Islam, when he went to America and he travelled all over the world at the age of 70, he went all alone with just 40 rupees.

And in 11 years, he established 108 temples, wrote over 80 books, and inspired millions of people all over the world to live spiritual lives, centering service to God and service to humanity. So, he, when he went to London at that time, a reporter frequently asked him, Swamiji, why have you come here? The idea was, he was arrogant, he was saying that we Britishers ruled India, what can you teach us? So, Prabhupada replied, when you Britishers ruled India, you plundered India of our wealth, all our wealth. The amount of wealth that the Britishers plundered from India amounts into trillions of rupees.

But he said, you forgot to take the most precious jewel of India. We Indians are charitable people. So, the jewel that you forgot to take, I have come to give you that jewel.

That jewel is the spiritual wisdom of India. So, this is our greatest treasure. And all of you, born in India, you know, young Indians have a unique opportunity in the history of the world.

All of you, by your birth in Indian culture, have Indian spiritual inclination. And by your education, you have developed a scientific temperament. So, a spiritual inclination and a scientific temperament, if they can be brought together, then they can bring about a positive change externally to the world.

Isn't it? Science, technology improves things, spirituality improves people. So, if we could have technological spiritualists, those who work on improving us internally as well externally, then they can be the greatest assets for the whole world. And every one of you has the opportunity in that.

So, we have a centre over here, the main forum. And we conduct regular seminars, by which, and we have talked about meditational practises, by which you can explore spirituality as a science. The seminar will help you to understand the philosophy.

And the meditation techniques will help you to get the experience. By which you can experience and rush inner empowerment. Finding that your own moods, your own swings of temperament, they will all come into control.

You know, we find ourselves going like a fine wave. Sometimes we feel high spirits, sometimes we feel low spirits. But when you become spiritual, you will become steady.

How will you become steady? When a boat is in the ocean, the boat will keep going up and down because the waves are there in the ocean. But if the boat is anchored to something strong, then although the waves will come, the boat will not shake so much. Because the boat is anchored to something strong.

So, what does meditation do? Meditation anchors us to God. God is the supreme unshakeable reality. And when through meditation we anchor ourselves to God, then there will be ups and downs in the world.

There will be successes, there will be failures. There will be joys, there will be sorrows. But we will stay steady.

We will stay focused. And you will be able to do greater justice to your talents. You will become better students, better human beings, better Indians and better all around you.

So, I'll come right back to what I discussed. First I discussed, can science be spiritual? There I discussed about how science is not to be mistaken for scientific. Science is remarkably advanced, but it explores one aspect of reality.

It is material reality. And our emotions, our aesthetics, they are beyond the reach of science. They are the religion and arts for that.

We discussed the reports of scientists. And then we discussed how there is non-scientific extrapolation of scientific data that happens with science. And that gives me a theory.

So, we discussed the example of the extraterrestrials coming over there. And after that I discussed of how if there is open-minded research, there are scientists who have found evidences for existence of God, and especially evidences for soul and reincarnation. I discussed Dr. Jan Stevenson.

And I discussed Dr. William Penfield's research. And after that, can spirituality be scientific? In that I discussed how? Spirituality has two lists. Just like there is theory in science.

There is philosophy in spirituality. And just like there is experiment in science. There is religion in spirituality.

So, philosophy tells us, postulates the truths. For example, I am not the body, I am the soul. And religion practises like meditation, practises like devotion.

They give us experience of higher things. And then we discussed various statistics. So, not living spiritually is like using a Mercedes for flowing.

And living spiritually is like using Mercedes for going on a smooth road. So, we discussed those who use a Mercedes for flowing, they will get frustrated. So, we are saying as society is becoming more and more simplistic.

What is happening in America? People are not happy even from a religious perspective. Diaboses, depressions, suicide, all these are increasing. And the more people have become spiritual, the less they are going to use.

Rather, handbook of religion has got higher. And we Indians have the opportunity to integrate the spiritual inclination and consciousness and temper to usher in a new era in world history where India can be a spiritual superpower leading the world. Thank you very much.

Very interesting. Are there any questions? Thank you Mr. Chatterjee for sharing your knowledge with us. And we have a question and answer session.

And those in the audience who wish to ask any kind of question. Do we have a mic? How do we ask? Can you use this one? Good afternoon sir. In your seminar, we have been discussing the ways by which we can link ourselves to God.

And you have also talked about the presence, I mean the instances that the scientific theories give us about the presence of the God. Right? What is God? My question is, you have been talking about God also in our talk, but what is God? The question is, what is God? So, there is a definition given in the Vedic scriptures which is compatible with the conception of God in various institutions of the world. The Vedanta Sutra, the Brahma Sutra, there is another word, Karana, Karana.

Karana is the cause. The cause of all causes. So, if we trace ourselves backward, you have come from your parents, your parents have come from their parents.

Like that, when we keep tracing backward, backward, backward, backward, the point where it all stops, that beginning of all beginning, the cause of all causes, that is God. So, God is the absolute truth, the source of everything. The source, but he is not just the source.

He is the source and the sustainer also. So, everything has come from him, but he is still in charge, controlling everything. So, God, we should not just think of God as some person living in the jungle.

Yes, he is a person, but he is not just a ordinary person. He is the source of everything and everyone. That is the meaning of the term God.

Answering questions? Any other questions? Yes, yes. You can stick around, I will repeat the question. Thank you.

Sir, in the 1990s, the government itself said, so these were the activities of people. So, how do we effectively reflect this terrorism? I mean, what is the meaning of terrorism? So, there was a demolition of the mosque, how do we differentiate between religion and terrorism? As I said, you remember I talked about philosophy and religion. So, when there is religion without any philosophy, then that can become either sentimental or it can become fanatical.

So, when people do not understand their religion, that if there is God, then we are all children of God. If we are all children of God, we are all parts of one family. So, when people do not understand them, they start thinking our way is the only way.

Other ways are all wrong. Will that lead to fanaticism? The solution for that is education. So, when there is education, then people understand the philosophy.

When they understand the philosophy, then you will see that actually there will be integration. And you see, India originally was a land of very great integration. So, right from the beginning, when the Christians were being persecuted in Europe by the Roman Empire, for four centuries, Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire.

And then eventually, the Roman Empire became a Christian empire. So, during that time, the Syrian Christians had to flee and come to India. And that time, India gave asylum to them.

They have been living here since that time. In Arabia, when Islam took over, at that time, the Parsis were persecuted over there. The Parsis came to India and they were granted shelter over there.

Even when the European explorers came to India, let us call them Allah Maharshi, they were not converted. They were integrated into the country. When the Dalai Lama and the Buddhists were persecuted in Tibet, they were brought over to India.

So, overall, India's culture has always been very individualist. And it has been the idea that various schools of thought can live together. But over the centuries, the culture and the philosophy have become diverged.

So, people practise the culture but they do not understand the philosophy. And that is why those people who have political interests, they want to use religion as a tool to grab power. And they can't explore India.

Therefore, if we want to avoid fanaticism, we have to actually harm proper education. The problems which are there in religion are like a cataract in India. So, some people say religion itself is a cause of violence.

In my book, Oh My God!, I have analysed this. If religion were the cause of violence, in all the parts of the world where there is no religion, there should be the most peaceful place in the world. Have they been peaceful? If we look at, which are the parts of the world where atheism was tried out on a national scale? The Soviet Russia and China.

Officially, Karl Marx had the idea that religion is the opium of the masses. And because of that, they have made religion illegal. They persecuted religions.

In fact, many, it's called demons, they were tortured, some of them were murdered in the Soviet Russia. Even now, they go to China and persecute it. It's going on still.

But what happened? During the 70 years of communism in China and Russia, what happened? In China and Russia, actually the number of people who were killed by the government itself, they are three times more than the number of people killed all over the rest of the world, including in World War I and World War II. So, it's atheism that causes far greater violence. Because if religion leads to violence, that is a misinterpretation of religion.

In fact, actually people misinterpret religion and it leads to violence. But materialism and atheism naturally lead to violence. Why? Because if there is no God, there is no soul, this is the only life that we have.

And we have to enjoy this life. And we are not accountable for our actions. And whatever we have to enjoy, let's enjoy.

Try to kill someone for that. Borrow, steal, kill, enjoy. So, atheism leads to violence far more than religion.

And we see Hitler, Stalin, Comte, Mao Zedong. They were the biggest persecutors of religion in history. And all of them were atheists.

So, it is human beings who cause violence. And they use ideologies that support violence. Some of them may use religion as an ideology to cause violence.

But religion is not as amenable to violence as atheism. Atheism will lead to far greater violence. So, if we have proper philosophy education, then religion will lead to peace internally and equally.

Is that a question? Yes. So, why do we forget our past lives? Is that a question? There are more different reasons. First and foremost is, it is our normal human tendency to forget.

Let me ask you, what were you doing one week ago at 2.29 pm? It is very difficult to remember. Now, we in general tend to forget. That's the first point.

Second point is, especially when there are traumatic transitions. So, death is a traumatic transition. Trauma happens all the time.

The soul is ripped out of the body. And everything that is dear to us, we lose in one devastating moment. So, after traumatic moments, it is an innate psychological defence mechanism that we try to deal with the trauma by forgetting.

And that's why if somebody passes away, people say, time is the best healer. Because time causes the memory to subside. And that's how people heal.

So, when we die, there is a tremendous psychological trauma that is there. And as a psychological defence mechanism, our memories tend to get cleared away. And thirdly, there is something called as oxytocin.

Oxytocin is a chemical that is secreted in the body. And oxytocin is secreted especially during pregnancy. And oxytocin is known to be associated with amnesia.

With memory loss. So, oxytocin could be a biological cause of the suppression or the checking of the memories. And beyond that, beyond these three factors, there is further childhood suppression of memories.

Childhood suppression of memories means when children are born in cultures where parents don't believe in reincarnation. Then, imagine, suppose you become a parent. And you love your child.

And your child says, Papa, I want to go to another Papa. You are not my Papa. So, when people don't believe in reincarnation, they think, what is the child speaking? Shut up! Don't speak such things.

And now for the children, their parents are the only source of security for them. So, if anything, if you disagree with the parents, children don't speak those things. And most of the cases, when the parents consult some past life researchers, is because the children are undergoing trauma.

Children are repeatedly, No, I want to go there. And then the children are having traumatic memories of There is one, I got a video of the boy who lived before this boy was, James Lanninger. He was James Crawford in his previous life.

He was a World War II fighter. And he was killed in the World War II. Then he was born as James Lanninger.

And he used to have tremendous attacks of panic. Screaming at the top of his voice. And then his parents tried to pacify and they couldn't.

Then eventually, they interrogated him. And neither of the parents were believing in reincarnation. But the sheer force of the evidence forced him.

So, because of the normal human tendency to forget, because of the innate psychological defence mechanism to suppress traumatic memories, because of the secretion of oxytocin during pregnancy, and because of the suppression of childhood memories by the culture where reincarnation is not believed in, because of these, the memories of past lives are relatively few. But even one true memory associated with proper evidence is good enough to prove reincarnation. Because even one case cannot be explained without recourse to reincarnation.

And that means that's also adequate evidence. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. So, there are cultural beliefs that if we do certain things to our children, then they will forget the past lives.

So, actually, these are belief systems. They may not necessarily be true. But somehow in India, in many places, there is a notion that if a child remembers the past life, then the child will die quickly.

Actually, there is no empirical evidence for this. But somehow this belief is there. And there was… And because of that, many times parents do these things.

In my book, I am writing about a case of Mushir Ali Khan. This is a Hindu-to-Muslim reincarnation case. So, he was Narendra Sharma in his previous life.

And he was born as Mushir Ali. No, he was Mushir Ali in his previous life. He died in an accident.

He became Narendra Sharma. And he was saying, I am Mushir Ali. And he would do namaz like a Muslim.

And he said, I want to go to that area. And it was in UP, that was the area where riots had happened. Parents were panicked.

And the parents got this kind of people. They didn't forget it. They put him on a wheel and get him to move around on the wheel.

A potter's wheel. But he did not forget. And eventually, they had to… Virginia Steele was a researcher from the University of Virginia.

She came and she did an investigation. So, the beliefs… Because people have some strange unfounded ideas that memory of past life is undesirable. It is not necessarily undesirable.

It can lead to some further knowledge. And eventually, as children grow up, by the time of 8, 9, 10, they smooth into their present bodies. And they start living normally.

So, there is no need to be panicky about these things. So, any other questions? Yes. I know that has been a long class.

So, I think we will stop here. So, those of you who have questions, as mentioned in the introduction, I answer questions on my website, www.thespiritualscientist.com So, if any of you have questions over there, you can ask questions over there, and I will be happy to answer over there. Thank you very much for your kind attention.