Can we experience spiritual happiness with material senses and mind?
Question from Mahadev Prabhu this is based on a comment to Gita Delhi article which talks about 18.37 conviction and purification takes us from poison to the nectar but the comment is 18.37 says about sattvic happiness, which is not the spiritual happiness of the soul spiritual happiness cannot be experienced by mind, senses or mind so there are two issues over here what does 18.37 refer to and can spiritual happiness be experienced by mind, senses or mind so I'll take the second question first actually, nothing can be experienced by the senses or mind because the senses and mind are dead even a corpse has senses and mind, but the corpse doesn't experience anything because the senses and mind are not the locus of experience, they are not the centers of experience, they are maybe the tools by which the soul experiences so to say that the senses can or cannot experience anything is to self-commit a conceptual blunder it is like saying that the TV screen can it experience the joy or sorrow of winning or losing a cricket match obviously it can't but the TV screen is the tool by which the cricket fan can see the match and then the cricket fan experiences it so whether it is material happiness or spiritual happiness ultimately the experiencer is the soul so now once this point is clear, the next question comes up can the senses and mind which are material in nature be tools by which spiritual happiness can be experienced so what is spiritual happiness spiritual happiness is essentially the happiness that comes from remembrance of Krishna Maharaj says Sukha Taram Param Najaatun Jaane Hari Cheran Smarana Amritena Tulyam there is no happiness equivalent to the happiness of remembrance of Krishna so in spiritual happiness there can be various levels of happiness there can be much more milder version of happiness which is basically peacefulness not exactly positive happiness that comes by meditation and Brahman, slightly more happiness which comes by meditation and Paramatma and the highest happiness comes by meditation and Bhagawan so that is spiritual happiness now can we remember Krishna using our material senses yes certainly we can, when we take darshan of the deities, we are using our material eyes to see Krishna so if we feel devotionally enlivened on taking darshan of the deities is that not a bona fide the whole process of bhakti is as described by Narada in the Narad Bhakt Sutra Rishikena Rishikesha Sevanam Bhaktir Uchyate Rishikena Rishikesha by the senses serve the lord of the senses and that is called as bhakti so the path of karma uses the senses for material enjoyment the path of jnana rejects the use of the senses rejects material enjoyment and then tries to seek spiritual happiness primarily by contemplation and inward search but the uniqueness of the path of bhakti is that it uses the senses which normally take us away from God to go towards God so normally the eyes attract us to worldly sense objects but bhakti uses the eyes to see Krishna and then the same eyes become the sources of purification, elevation and spiritual fulfillment spiritual satisfaction so the eyes are the tools for that the source of course is the stimuli which you must remember which is reminding us of Krishna for example the deities so can we experience spiritual happiness with material senses yes in fact that is the speciality of the process of bhakti how is it possible because Krishna is the source of both matter and spirit so Krishna cannot be abstracted by the presence of matter so the deity may be made of matter, our senses may be made of matter and if we perceive Krishna with a materialistic consciousness where we are not seeking remembrance of Krishna we are just looking at stone there may be some remembrance of Krishna in the background some little bit of punya might be there but there will not be much purification by that but if we seek to remember Krishna and then we use our eyes to behold the form of Krishna as the deity Krishna manifests as the deity and therefore we are able to remember him very positively and same way the whole process of chanting is using the material senses so the senses become spiritualized by the process of bhakti and what is 18.37 referring to is it referring to happiness in the mode of goodness yes it is Krishna is describing the nature of happiness in the mode of goodness so happiness is actually an experience in the heart so can what do we mean by happiness in the mode of goodness that means when a person is in the mode of goodness such a person experiences happiness in this way so the mode of goodness can refer to long term happiness that means happiness which involves doing some effort now and getting the result later so universal practical example of happiness in the mode of goodness which tastes like poison in the beginning and nectar in the end could be studies initially when we have to study a subject there is struggle but over a period of time as we become good at the subject then there is joy of learning there is joy of expertise there is joy of a new horizon of understanding being opened so in this way studies is a very good example of this principle of poison in the beginning nectar in the end now when we perceive spiritual love when we seek spiritual happiness when we pursue spiritual happiness at that time we cannot automatically jump to transcendence more or less we practice life in the mode of goodness and in our practice of bhakti we will have to more or less experience this principle that we will not start experiencing happiness immediately when we start doing devotional activity initially we will experience devotional activity sometimes as completely unpalatable dry tasteless and over a period of time we will start experiencing them to be relishable so in this way this principle which can apply to material happiness in the mode of goodness also applies to spiritual happiness so Rupa Goswami in the Bhakti Rasamritha Sindhu is the example of a jaundice patient so he is describing that this jaundice person cannot taste sugarcane juice because of the disease but if the jaundice person keeps drinking the sugarcane juice even when it doesn't taste sweet even when it tastes bitter gradually by drinking that juice the jaundice will get cured and then the person will be able to taste the juice very sweetly so here also the essential principle is the sugarcane juice may taste like poison in the beginning but if one keeps drinking it one will come to nectar so for doing this what is required? conviction and purification conviction that the poison is temporary eventually nectar will follow and purification by which the disease gets cured the contaminations in the body go out and then the natural sweetness of sugarcane becomes perceived by us same principle applies in our practice of devotional service also initially when we are covered by the modes of passion and ignorance we can't taste transcendental happiness but when we keep practicing devotional service, keep drinking the nectar of remembrance of Krishna we become purified, the effects of modes of passion and ignorance subsides and as we move closer and closer towards transcendence we start experiencing more and more happiness so in principle spiritual happiness will be experienced by us in the same way as happiness in the mode of goodness the difference will be that the happiness in the mode of goodness will also be temporary if I learn after a lot of effort algebra or calculus or some other subjects like that I go through a difficult learning phase, after that I enter a relation phase, but after that when I die next time I start, I have to start from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 again I have to start from basics so that which tastes like poison in the beginning will taste like nectar in the end, this applies to material to refined material pleasures also, but they are not lasting, they are not eternal, when we practice Krishna consciousness, even when I am studying Bhagavad Gita, even when I am learning in the process of meditation even when I am trying to become purified, at that time also it will taste like poison in the beginning nectar in the end, but the difference is with respect to devotional happiness the nectar will be permanent whereas with respect to mode of goodness happiness the nectar will be temporary therefore 18.37 in and of itself in the context refers to certainly happiness in the mode of goodness, but the principle that is given by Krishna also applies to the happiness of devotional service it will also taste like nectar in the end, but poison in the beginning and the point of the article that to go from the poison to the nectar we need conviction and purification applies for the pursuit of spiritual happiness.