Can you explain how the mind addresses us in the first person and the second person?
Thank you Question from Sudama based on the article Why do we misidentify with the mind? Would you throw some more light on the first person and second person that you have mentioned in the article Answer The first person and second person are references to ways of speaking and addressing when we speak ourselves we say that that is speaking in the first person so I, me, my these are first person pronouns and you your, yours all these are second person pronouns so the mind is different from us in that sense when the mind speaks to us the mind will speak in the second person just as if somebody else tells us do this, if a salesman comes at our house and tells us please purchase this product you will find it helpful, you will enjoy it so at that time it is sales person is speaking in the second person to us and that would be the normal way for anyone else to deal with us if they want us to do something then they will request us and they will address us in the second person so that is how the mind initially starts when it speaks so right now when I am speaking this, I may feel that answering this question is important but my mind may say that you have other important things to do also so at this stage when the mind is addressing me, it will be speaking to me in the second person, why don't you do that, that is important also that you will enjoy more this is an example of the mind addressing us in the second person now when we listen to the mind by listening to the mind we identify with the mind so for example, the sales person who is coming says, why don't you purchase this car and as that person starts persuading us gradually we start accepting that sales person's proposal and the more we accept that proposal, the more we take ownership of that idea and the more we take ownership of that idea the less that person has to persuade because now once the idea is owned by us, we will do whatever it is to fulfill that idea so I have explained this with respect to the Bhagavad Gita 2.62-63 … … so this is the sequence by which we fall and when we look at this sequence carefully and the emotions that are induced in us or the actions that we are impelled to do because of those emotions then we can notice a subtle progression in the kind of thoughts that we are having at these times for example, when the first thing is dhyayato at that time, there is contemplation and when we start contemplating then say the sales person comes and tells us please take this new cell phone and then we start contemplating and the person shows the cell phone it's shiny, looking very elegant and then we start noticing it and then that sales person starts describing the features so when the features are described at that time there is a second stage, that is attraction, sangha so we feel, hey, that's nice so that basically that person is telling us, why don't you take this feature, this feature, this feature, this feature so at this stage the mind is speaking to us in the second person and we have started becoming favorably disposed towards it and then as the sales person keeps advertising more and then persuading us more, then we become obsessed, what if I can't afford it right now I'll get money somehow I want to have the latest thing that is fashion so what is happening is although the sales person is still persuading us we are taking up more and more ownership of the idea so at this stage of obsession the desire becomes very strong and we are almost taking ownership of the idea so this is what has happened, it's the mind which is speaking to us why don't you enjoy that way, hey look at that object that is so nice and then yes, why don't you enjoy, yeah yes, it is how can you live without it so look at that object contemplation starts, that's so nice that's attraction and obsession means yes, you must have it you deserve it you need enjoyment otherwise how will you live without it, so as these thoughts are coming in, our desire is becoming stronger and from there, so until this point the mind is speaking in the second person in the sense that mind is persuading us but when the mind has persuaded us in terms of at least making us accept the idea so at that time then still the mind is speaking but we have sort of at least conceptually not ontologically, ontologically means in terms of existence in terms of existence the mind always remains different from us but conceptually in terms of our conceptions or our thoughts at that particular time we identify with the mind, just like when we are seeing a movie, we remain different from the movie star but to the extent we identify with that movie star, to that extent we undergo the same emotions or similar emotions to what that movie star is undergoing and when that movie star sees some injustice happening just as that star feels angry we feel angry so once the mind sells its idea to us and we accept that idea, we buy into it and from that point onwards the mind starts speaking in the first person in the sense that now it is our idea and it is our plan, our obstinacy you could say if it is not a good desire to get to it no matter what the obstacles we may remember, no this is against my principles I should not be doing this then so when this thought starts coming in then immediately the irritation comes back, what are these principles, what have they given me why do I need to follow them, if it is meant for enjoyment, why should I lock myself up with rules so basically internally we have started to develop through this kind of thoughts we start developing an irritation towards the rules so this is like the salesperson has stopped speaking and now the salesperson is basically his that his ideas have now gone into our mind I am talking about metaphor over here, have gone inside us and now there is an internal dialogue happening so at the stage of irritations now with respect to the salesperson is outside us and we are separate from him the mind is actually inside us but inside us there is the mind and there we ourselves are the soul so at this stage the mind's idea is accepted by the soul that is accepted by us as our own idea then we start feeling I want to do it and who is stopping it, what is the scripture what is the tradition, who cares for it so I want to enjoy and so that from that stage of irritation onwards where it is not that somebody has to persuade us, we are actually persuaded now we just think that there are some obstacles stopping me from enjoying and I have to overcome those obstacles so from that point onwards the stage of delusion means we get confused is this good or that is good actually I have heard some people guru sadhu shastra say that that is good but this seems so enjoyable and delusion and then after that there is oblivion then we forget that whatever sort of material enjoyment we may try to do especially if it is immoral, anti-devotional then it has consequences and it makes our life tasteless, it makes us feel worthless for not being able to live according to principles you feel tasteless because the enjoyment soon goes away and then we cannot enjoy materially and because we have gone away from Krishna we cannot relish spiritually also so actually we end up becoming miserable we have experienced how enjoyment leads to misery but at that point there is oblivion because of our intense desire because we have accepted the idea as our own so we don't think about anything that will discourage or obstruct that idea that's how we get this forgetfulness and then after that there is buddhi nasha stupefaction and finally there is pranashyati there is destruction so in all these stages actually we have been persuaded and it is we who are trying to get the enjoyment and the intelligence is obstructing us the memory is obstructing us but we just cast aside all those protective barriers that are there between us and that particular undesirable form of indulgence but we push aside those barriers and move forward and actually for pranashyati so at this stage it is the first person because we have taken ownership of the idea and it is we who want to fulfill that idea and our intelligence our memory all these are obstructing us but we throw away those obstacles so this is what I mean by the second person means when the mind when it is speaking in its voice it is speaking in speaking to us as you you are tired, you need some sleep and then as the mind keeps speaking, keeps speaking then when we take ownership of it, yes I am tired I need sleep, now what will other person say, no they will think that I am lazy they will always find fault with me no matter what I do I need rest, I am going to take, I am going to sleep now so this way once we take ownership of the idea then it becomes the first person although actually what is being spoken is spoken by the mind only but the mind has persuaded us we have taken its idea as its own and that's how the mind no longer speaks to us as second person to convince us but the mind speaks as the first person to overcome whatever obstacles that might be posed because of our culture, our training our education and the mind makes us do those things as if we are doing those things and later after the enjoyment is done and the consequences are seen then gradually at that time the infatuated mind which has sort of possessed us, which has overcome us, now gets away from us and then we start thinking why did I do that, so we could understand this another way through the example of a possession when a person when a ghost possesses a person initially that person feels that oh some other presence is coming into me and is trying to take control of me and I don't want to give control to that, whatever it is but then once that ghost takes control of the body and then the ghost starts walking through the body, so initially the ghost is coming in so the person can observe oh there's another person, the ghost is trying to come into me but then once the ghost takes control and the host that is there, the actual person in the body, the original person to whom the body belongs, that person gets suppressed, silenced and then the ghost takes over and the ghost makes the person act go and shout at this person eat this, do that, take revenge against that person and then after that the ghost goes away, then the person is like where am I, what did I do why did I do that, so like that the this is the ghost initially enters in as a second person into our body but once the ghost enters then the ghost takes control of our body and acts as if from the external perspective, what is being done seem to be our desires because the ghost has taken control of the body similarly, the mind initially speaks to us in second person and then it speaks in the first person and forces us to do those things, thank you.