Chatur Shloki Bhagavatam 4 – Understanding human intelligence

We have one more question.

Thank you very much. Satsang with Mooji Up to this, certainly, Jignasyam is to be enquired. Tattva, the absolute truth, Jignasun, by the student, Atmanah, of the Self, Anvaya, directly, Vyatirekabhyam, indirectly, Yat, whatever, Syat, it may be, Sarvatra, in all space and time, Sarvada, in all circumstances.

Translation and purport by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Translation A person who is searching after the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, most certainly search for it up to this, in all circumstances, in all space and time, and both directly and indirectly. Purport To unfold the mystery of Bhakti Yoga, as it is explained in the previous verse, is the ultimate stage of all enquiries, or the highest objective for the inquisitive.

Everyone is searching after Self-realisation in different ways, by Karma Yoga, by Jnana Yoga, by Dhyana Yoga, by Raj Yoga, by Bhakti Yoga, etc. To engage in Self-realisation is the responsibility of every living entity developed in consciousness. One who is developed in consciousness certainly makes enquiries into the mystery of the Self, of the cosmic situation, and of the problem of life, in all spheres and fields, social, political, economic, cultural, religious, moral, etc., and in their different branches.

But here the goal of all such enquiries is explained. The Vedanta Sutra philosophy begins with this enquiry about life, and the Bhagavatam answers such enquiries up to this point, or the mystery of all enquiries. Lord Brahma wanted to be perfectly educated by the Personality of Godhead, and here is the answer by the Lord, finished in four nutshell verses, from Ahameva to this verse, Etaavadeva.

This is the end of all Self-realisation process. Men do not know that the ultimate goal of life is Vishnu, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, due to being bewildered by the glaring reflection in the darkness. And as such, everyone is entering into the darkest region of material existence, driven by the uncontrolled senses.

The whole material existence has sprung up because of sense gratification, desires based principally on the sex desire, and the result is that, in spite of all advancement of knowledge, the final goal of all activities of the living entities is sense gratification. But here is the goal, real goal of life, and everyone should know it by enquiries put before a bona fide spiritual master, expert in the science of Bhakti Yoga, or from a living personality of Bhagavatam life. Everyone is engaged in various kinds of scriptural enquiries, but the Srimad Bhagavatam gives answers to all the various students of Self-realisation.

The ultimate objective of life is not to be searched out without great labour or perseverance. One who is imbued with such sincere enquiries must ask the bona fide spiritual master in the disciplic succession for Brahmaji. And that is the direction given here.

Because the mystery was disclosed before Brahmaji by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the mystery of all such enquiries regarding Self-realisation must be put before such a spiritual master who is directly the representative of the Lord, acknowledged by that disciplic succession. Such a bona fide spiritual master is able to clear up the whole thing by evidence from the revealed scriptures, both direct and indirect. Although everyone is free to consult the revealed scriptures in this connection, one still requires the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, and that is the direction in this verse.

The bona fide spiritual master is the most confidential representative of the Lord, and one must receive direction from the spiritual master in the same spirit that Brahmaji received it from the Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna. The bona fide spiritual master in that bona fide chain of disciplic succession never claims to be the Lord himself, although the spiritual master is greater than the Lord, in the sense that he can deliver the Lord by his personally realised experience. The Lord is not to be found simply by education or by a good fertile brain, but surely he can be found by the sincere student through the transparent medium of the bona fide spiritual master.

Namaste Saraswati Devi Kauravani Pracharine Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Pashyatya Deshatarine Vancha Kalpatarubhyascha Kripasindhubhyaevacha Patitanampavanebhyo Vaishnavebhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Jai Kanya Prabhu Nithyananda Shri Atvaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Krishna Am I audible? Hare Krishna Okay, Hare Krishna So welcome to our last discussion today on the Chaturthi Shloki Bhagavatam We are discussing about the fourth verse The first verse talked about how the supreme absolute truth is the ultimate reality The second talked about how seeing anything disconnected from the absolute truth is illusion. The third verse talked about how the Lord is present within this world and yet maintains the existence beyond this world And this verse says that this is the understanding that we should seek That that inquisitive people should come to this point of understanding how directly and indirectly in all situations, all places in all circumstances, at all times Human beings are defined by some higher capacities as compared to other living species Whether animals can speak animals do communicate whether they have the capacity to form meaningful words and communicate through languages This is a topic about with ethologists. Ethologists are those who, specialists who study animals in their natural habitat they still debate There are some birds, some dolphins some monkeys, which seem to have some capacities to be able to communicate through some kind of verbal communication All animals communicate through noise through sounds But whether that sound comprises any kind of language scientists are not very clear about it But more important than the capacity to verbalise meaningful words more important than that capacity is the capacity to conceptualise meaningful thoughts Communication involves firstly the capacity to form clear thoughts.

Secondly the capacity to put those thoughts in clear words. And third is to make sure that the words are understood by clarifying from others So now the if we look, yesterday we discussed how the whole material world is made up of the basic elements. Now animal body and the human body all are made of the same elements, earth, water, fire air, ether, mind, intelligence, ego So when we say human body is special So where is the speciality? Is the speciality in the greater complexity of the brain cells that we human beings have? Yes, it is at one level but the greater complexity of the brain cells simply implies a greater information processing capacity Just like somebody may have a computer which has a 1 GB RAM and somebody may have a computer which has a 10 GB RAM But the person the 10 GB RAM has a greater capacity for information processing but that itself does not necessarily mean that that computer is used for a higher purpose A scientist or an intellectual or author who is doing a great intellectual work may not have a lot of money so he or she may be working with a 1 GB computer and somebody who is very wealthy may be using a 10 GB computer for playing video games So the brain capacity is like the computer's processing capacity So the difference between human beings and animals, at a biological level, yes it is true that we have a greater sophistication in our brain At the same time, the brain is a channel So then is there a difference Our existence has three dimensions There is the physical, there is the mental and there is the spiritual, the gross body, the subtle body and the soul So at the physical level, there are certain differences.

One of them is the brain's greater capacity At the subtler level, that is at the level of the mind, intelligence and ego Now, these are often, the subtle body is often for convenience referred in shorthand as the mind So at the level of the mind, is there any difference? Our mind the mind, intelligence, ego, they are essentially the same elements whether it is the human body or the animal body So beyond that is the soul Now it is, at one level we could say the soul is the same Isn't it? In 5.18, Bhagavata Krishna says that a wise person sees all living beings equally, whether it is a learned brahmana or an uncultured dog-eater or a dog or a cow or an elephant So that is because such a learned person sees the soul in all living beings So then the soul in all living beings is also the same The soul is the same, the gross body is made of the same elements, the subtle body is made of the same elements. Then where is the difference? The difference is actually in the level of impressions in the level of conditionings that are impressed in the subtle body The gross physical body is a machine We know that as per karma we get the physical body As per our past karma and our past karma, our desires and what we deserve So the higher end of the human body are basically a tool But the difference is the soul is the same, our conditionings primarily lie in the subtle body Our gross body is also a product of our conditionings. Some of us may have healthy bodies Some of us may have sickly bodies Some of us may have good looking bodies, some of us may have not so good looking bodies.

This is a result of conditioning. But the body is more or less like a past instalment of karma which is there with us But the subtle body is what continues and perpetuates our conditioning primarily So the level of impressions in the subtle body are far more in the non-human species than they are in the human species And in some exceptional situations, for example in the case of Jadbharat or Bharat Maharaj when he became a deer Now it is said that if one practises bhakti one will not fall from a human body to a lower body. It is said even if one takes prasad once, one will not fall to a non-human species And yet we saw see that Bharat Maharaj falls to a lower species But he falls to deer body he doesn't fall to deer consciousness And how is that? Because the subtle body doesn't have the impressions that would be there in an animal body.

The subtle body is not covering So the soul is here, the subtle body is the first covering, the gross body is the second covering The subtle body distorts the soul's desire the soul's knowledge So Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 3.38 The covering of material conditionings, it covers our knowledge And this varies from person to person But in human body it is less Now the soul, one of its faculties is Chit. Chit means consciousness Now consciousness means that we want to be conscious of things We want to be aware of things What is where? If monkeys are put in a trap, if there is a wall here Monkeys often go to great strain to find out what is on the other side of the wall Even if there is nothing, they have that curiosity, maybe I will find something So curiosity is present in all living beings But where that curiosity will be directed that is determined by the level of conditionings that are there in the mind So to give a simple example, if somebody is an architect and not just an architect by profession, but that person is an architect by passion and is very interested in architecture That person may come into the temple and may not even notice the deities present at all Look around all the architecture of the temple That's all is the interest So somebody else may come and if that person is a is a person who makes dresses, that person may come and look at the deities and look only at the dresses and not look at the person who is wearing the dress at all So based on our interest based on the kind of impressions that are there in our consciousness, our inquisitiveness is directed in certain directions So in the animal species in the non-human species also this inquisitiveness is directed in various ways, but those ways all centre on aahar nidra bhai maithuna eating, sleeping, mating, defending In human beings also this inquisitiveness is there but there is a capacity for higher inquisitiveness Now through this higher capacity we have developed arts we have developed literature, we have developed science and we have in this way it's all resulting from enquiry Science means we observe nature we try to understand how it works In arts primarily we try to bring into this world our own conception of what the world is So somebody sees something beautiful and that person recreates that conception in the mind in the outer world So art, literature, music science all these are expressions of the higher human inquisitiveness Unfortunately if this higher is not directed towards the highest then the higher ultimately comes down to the lower That means I was very interested in science in my school days and then because of the peer pressure of Indian society, I went into engineering, although my interest was more in pure sciences Then I studied engineering, I was quite fascinated by electronics engineering which I was studying and I would like to read books more than since my childhood, I like to read books more than watch movies or watch TV even before when I was even before I was introduced to Krishna Consciousness So then I studied for three years electronics engineering and then when I came to the fourth year, I read in the book electronics engineering that the primary purpose of electronics engineering is to make televisions and to make movies So I thought I have studied so many years What? Do you know? To help people make better idiot boxes So I felt something is wrong There must be some higher purpose for the intelligence So yes science does enquire a lot and there are many scientists who are into science for the purpose of trying to understand nature But for most purposes, even scientific knowledge is used to develop technology by which people can basically do eating, sleeping, mating, defending If they are not doing eating, sleeping, mating, defending they are imagining how I will do it better So television is basically imaginary eating, sleeping, mating, defending Somebody else is doing, I am imagining one day I will do like that also So the higher intellectual faculty is definitely there and in modern civilisation it is very much evident in the progress of technology But it is all because it is not connected with the highest reality God, so that higher capacity ultimately comes down to the lower purposes. It is directed ultimately for lower things So here it is said We all have our faculty for enquiry It should ultimately be directed towards the Supreme Lord Jignasa or enquiry is very much lauded in the Vedic tradition Some people argue, especially sceptics they say that science is based on enquiry whereas religion you just are expected to accept received dogmas.

This is what you are taught This is the truth and you have to accept it Now that may be true of some religions but the Vedic tradition is not about accepting received dogmas It is about asking questions We have to accept We have to accept what? Accept authorities to get proper answers But it is not that we have to accept everything unthinkingly In fact, at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, what Krishna tells Arjuna in 18.63 years Vimrishaitad aseshena yathe chisittha Vimrishaitad means that deliberate deeply and then decide what you want to do. So here we have a vision of God. In the Bible, God gives 10 commandments, the Old Testament Do this, do this, don't do this, don't do this.

The Bhagavad Gita is not so much a book of commandments as it is a book of choices and consequences If you do this, this will happen. If you do this, this will happen. Now you decide what you want to do So the Bhagavad Gita reveals a vision of God who respects human intelligence and human independence Yes, you have your independence.

You can do what you want but deliberate Deliberate itself means that Krishna is assuming that Arjuna and through him all those who are hearing the Gita, they have the capacity to deliberate So deliberate and decide. So the Gita reveals a vision of God who respects human intelligence and human independence and we are meant to direct it properly. So the Vedanta Sutra begins with Athato Brahma Jignasa.

The Jaimini Sutra begins with Athato Dharma Jignasa. The Shandilya Bhakti Sutra begins with Athato Bhakti Jignasa. So there are different schools of thought which are there in the Vedic tradition.

They all begin with the principle of Jignasa Enquire. So Jaimini is the teacher of the Karma Myaamsa They are enquiring what is Dharma So enquire Enquire what is Dharma. Shandilya is a great saint and he has written the Narada Bhakti Sutras Like that there is another Bhakti Sutra called Shandilya Bhakti Sutra and that begins with Athato Bhakti Jignasa Now enquire what is Bhakti So the point is inquisitiveness is very much encouraged and lauded in the Vedic tradition and Prabhupada writes in this, Prabhupada gives a beautiful connection here in his purport.

He says that the Vedanta Sutra urges us to ask questions and the Bhagavatam gives the answers and this chapter is also appropriately titled as Answers by Citing the Lord's Version. So there are questions and there are answers Now I said that we don't have to accept received dogmas but we have to accept authority. Prabhupada says we should go here in his purport we should go to a spiritual master.

The contemporary ethos is frequently against accepting any authority and there are reasons for this in the history of the world there have been many people who have abused their authority and because of that we tend to be suspicious and doubt is not always bad doubt is a protector normally if we have been deceived by someone or if we have been disappointed by someone then naturally if we want to do something next again we have doubts. If you have gone to a doctor and the doctor has just taken a lot of our money and not really treated us well then when you go to a second doctor at that time we won't go we will have a little more scepticism or if you are staying in a place where we know there are criminals and if somebody comes and knocks on the door we won't just open the door naturally. We will have some doubts.

So doubt can act as a protector and the Bhagavatam says that doubt is one of the functions of the intelligence it says that samshaya is the beginning of intelligence but samshaya is not the end of intelligence doubt is the beginning of intelligence a foolish person will believe anything and everything that is said. Doubt is good. It is not bad today for example there are so many advertisements which promise so many things in some countries advertisements directed towards children below a particular age are banned because it is understood that those children don't have the developed intelligence to discern which advertisements are telling the truth and which advertisements are not telling the truth actually whether adults have that discernment that is also a question but still the point which we make over here is that it is understood that there is that children that some people may not have the capacity to doubt where doubt is desirable so doubt can act as a protector but at the same time suppose somebody who is a relative, somebody who is a benefactor somebody who has come to help us that person is knocking at the door and that person says I won't open the door because I have a doubt so a doubt should protect us from those who are going to harm us we shouldn't keep away those who are going to benefit us and that intelligence we need to have to discern who is beneficial, who is going to help me and who is going to harm me so if we look at broadly at the history of the world in the past there are three broad phases we could say there is the pre-modern age there is the modern age and what is currently going on is called the post-modern age so in the pre-modern age people had faith in religion in scripture most of the world today is westernised people had faith in the scriptures of the Abrahamic religions and over a period of time actually the biggest cause of atheism sometimes people blame that because of science people have become atheistic because of this people have become atheistic yes those are all factors but actually the biggest cause of atheism is primarily those who misuse theism now when religious people misuse and misrepresent religion they become exploitative in various ways they alienate people away from religion so this has happened because of the influence of Kalyuga that many religious authorities they started misusing their position and because of that people develop doubts and then science seems to offer an alternative more rational and more immediately beneficial world view so science seems to offer cures for medicine science offers technological gadgets which benefit so what happened the authority shifted from religion towards science so the pre-modern age was characterised by acceptance of religion as authority of scripture as authority the modern age was characterised by acceptance of science as authority but over a period of time people started recognising that science is not always beneficial in many ways technology which comes from science can harm and it can harm more than what harm might have been possible in the previous ages for example now all over the world there is a great threat of terrorism and quite often people associate terrorism with religion because of religion terrorism is coming even if we for argument sake say that it is coming from religion but still the terrorist would not have been able to cause so much damage if there had been no technology if there had been no bombs, if there had been no machine guns if there had been no weapons of mass destruction the terrorist would not have been able to cause so much harm now terrorists are in one part of the world somewhere in the middle east and they have caused a pall of fear all over the world how is that because of technology so are we ready to blame technology for terrorism nobody will no modern postmodern person will agree to that why not because we understand technology is a tool but similarly for such people religion is also a tool, their religious ideology is a tool for their own hunger for power so now the point which I am making over here is that as it was seen by many people that science is also not universally beneficial so people started rejecting science also, the postmodern age is characterised by accepting no authority neither religion nor science now the result of this is a complete surrender to the mind because if I don't accept any authority then what do I do I accept my own mind as the authority and when we accept our own mind as the authority all that we have is endless confusion endless confusion now many of the Albert Camus was a prominent philosopher existentialist, very sceptical brilliant writer very good thinker in the sense of capacity of thinking but his ultimate conclusion was what life is meaningless even philosophy is meaningless the only philosophical question worth asking is whether to end one's life today or tomorrow whether to commit suicide today or tomorrow because life is meaningless and his whole philosophy is based on even if you have to commit suicide don't commit it today so I am simplifying things but essentially this is what it boiled down to so when we accept no authority we descend into meaninglessness so what has happened we have the human capacity for enquiry and our enquiry has to be guided by some authority if we don't accept any authority we enquire but our enquiry takes us not towards light it takes us deeper into darkness it takes us deeper into darkness in the Bhagavad Gita in 2.52-53 Krishna talks about how our buddhi, our intelligence needs to go beyond the dark forest of delusion now there in that particular context Krishna is talking the dark forest of delusion as the Vedas why? because he says the Vedas are themselves so vast that within the Vedas one may get lost according to Subhashita it is said there are many many scriptures and means each scripture can be interpreted differently by different people and on top of that for all of us we have very little time and even in the little time that we have we go fall asleep so there are many scriptures there are many interpretations of scriptures we have very little time and within that little time also we have many obstacles and therefore what we should do is rather than reading too many things focus on the essence cherish that so the capacity for inquisitiveness if it is unguided then it can lead deeper into darkness even in the Vedic times it is acknowledged the Bhagavatam acknowledges and the saints at that time acknowledged that even in the Vedas itself one can get lost in the Vedas only there are so many Vedas and so much knowledge there that one may get lost it is said words can become like a trap it is a big big jungle and in that one neither enjoys nor one gets liberation so neither in this life nor in the next life that happens when the inquisitiveness is unguided and that is what is happening in today's world also we have tremendous knowledge through science but this knowledge is not transformed into understanding about the purpose of life people have tremendous amount of technology, Martin Luther King said that our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power we have guided missiles and misguided men we have guided missiles and misguided men so the inquisitiveness of the human being has been utilised by science and we have got a lot of knowledge through it but that knowledge is unidimensional what do you mean by unidimensional science focusses primarily on material knowledge it doesn't look for fundamental answers answers to fundamental questions that means in a rough way if you want to classify science asks the how questions how means, how does rain fall how do the planets move around in their orbit now how do things work in nature but science does not so much ask the why questions, why do things exist at all so science can find out the mechanism by which rains come but why are there rains at all, why are there clouds at all why is there the earth at all, why is there life at all, these are the why questions about the fundamental aspects of life science doesn't ask those questions science focusses on more on the way things work and within this scope suppose somebody has a, to give an example, suppose somebody has a black and white TV, nowadays practically nobody has a black and white TV but suppose somebody has a black and white TV, now no matter how long that person keeps watching a black and white TV, a colour image will never appear on the black and white TV so it is not a matter of patience or perseverance a black and white TV by its very constitution will prevent a colour image from appearing over there so similarly the method that science uses for studying nature, by that method itself higher realities are largely ruled out why is that, because science focusses on one of its defining methodologies called as the controlled experiment that means if you want to understand something how it is happening, you have to control the environment, remove all undesirable parameters and then expose the thing which you are experimenting to a controlled environment that means we have to control the object and then we study it now, in an earlier class we discussed about this Tattvatraya from the Upanishads there is Jagdish, there is Jeeva and there is Jagat now the Jagat, the universe is below the Jeeva because the universe is not conscious, we are conscious so to some extent the Jagat, the universe matter we can control and so we can subject matter to controlled experiments but Jagdish, God is above us we cannot subject him to our control and because of that because science focusses on controlled experiments and God cannot be made a subject of our controlled experiments now we can't control God so by definition the methodology of science cannot tell us anything about God directly just as a black and white TV cannot show us a colour image, so a methodology that is designed for the purpose of control that cannot show us one who is beyond our control so that's why the Jignasa that happens through science it can give us knowledge about how to control things and today we have the phenomenon that we have tremendous control over external things but we have very little control over our inner world people's minds are uncontrolled they are wild so although there is greater external control there is far lesser inner control and this can be actually very dangerous because especially say in America there are these fears that people have guns, free guns and people have the capacity just by pressing a few triggers to kill many people but they don't have control over their inner world just in a spell of madness they just go and kill so many people like that so to have control over the outer world without a corresponding capacity to control over the inner world that can be quite dangerous and we have the Bhagavatam says that when we are to enquire, our enquiry should end in the Supreme Lord it should move towards the Supreme Lord he should be the object of our enquiry so suppose there is a person who has always lived in darkness and that person has always lived in darkness moving through, groping through darkness and suddenly comes to light now that person will get the question oh how did the darkness produce light now the question itself is wrong although from that person's perspective the question may make sense I have always been in darkness and suddenly I have come across light so how did the darkness produce light but darkness did not produce light there is some other light source which produced light and when we go far away from that light source we experience darkness but because if we start because that person is starting from darkness so that person is asking the question how did darkness produce light so similarly today's culture today's thought system is largely materialistic we have a mechanistic world view we live in machines and our behaviours are mechanical so it's matter centre so science has studied matter a lot and as it keeps studying matter understood a lot of things and suddenly science stumbles across consciousness so the question comes up how did matter produce consciousness but matter does not produce consciousness because we have largely studied matter so that's why when we see something that is non-material we see consciousness we think oh how did matter produce consciousness but the question itself is wrong now consciousness has not come from matter light has come from a big light source similarly consciousness has come from the supreme consciousness that is God so Prabhupada said life comes from life what that means is consciousness comes from the supreme consciousness so here the problem with the methodology that science adopts is I earlier said that the methodology meant for control cannot show one who is beyond the control that science cannot tell us about spiritual truth so why it is not that the spiritual can't be seen yes spiritual itself can't be seen but we can see that we have consciousness all of us have consciousness but because science is primarily science as it is studied today is primarily rooted in matter so even if something non-material is seen the reference point comes back to material how can we explain the non-material in terms of the material that is the question that comes up and when that is the question then that question is itself wrong the non-material cannot be explained in terms of the material and as long as we have a wrong question we can't get the right answer like if somebody has gone to a doctor and the doctor has done a wrong diagnosis the treatment may be very expert afterwards you know somebody has got say malaria and the person is diagnosed for tuberculosis and the treatment for tuberculosis is given perfectly well the treatment is perfect but the treat is miserable why is that? because the diagnosis is wrong so in that sense the science with its methodology it is in many ways doing an impressive job the way the world has been transformed today there is definitely a lot of hard work that has gone in it but the fundamental assumption is everything should begin in matter and end in matter so in that sense scientists are devotees of matter not just devotees of matter pure devotees of matter Vasudeva Sarvamiti that is a devotee of Krishna and it is matter Sarvamiti so because of that what happens? even when they come across the non-material everything is referenced back to the material and that's why things end in incoherence to understand Krishna we need to stand under Krishna to understand Krishna we cannot subject him to a controlled experiment we have to stand under Krishna we have to submit to him there is a different method that is required and that method is what the Vedic scriptures the Vedic tradition especially the Bhakti tradition teaches us we subject our own consciousness to the experiment of Bhakti Yoga and that means we expose our consciousness to spiritual sound vibration we expose our consciousness to spiritual stimuli centred on Krishna the association of devotees, the deities and we minimise the exposure of our consciousness to those stimuli that will further our material conditioning that's what the regulatory principles are for the regulatory principles themselves are not spiritual but what they do is they stop the material from further interfering with the spiritual the spiritual sound vibrations that are coming they can transform us more and more if we are not heaping in further material impressions and when we practise Bhakti Yoga the purpose of practising Bhakti Yoga is to know Krishna and through the various branches of knowledge whichever branch of knowledge we are studying Bhakti is what we are ultimately going to pursue but while we are living in this world we will study different branches of knowledge and what we try to do is we connect all those branches of knowledge with Krishna that means whatever field we are studying, if we are cooking we cook for Krishna, if we are singing we sing for Krishna if we are in the field of science we try to see how within the field of science we can connect that knowledge with Krishna even if we cannot directly connect that particular branch of knowledge the the result of that branch of knowledge we can connect with Krishna we get a particular position in society by studying or specialising in a particular field we use that position to share the knowledge about Krishna and in this way when the inquisitiveness is directed towards Krishna then we get fulfilment and that is demonstrated right at the start of the Bhagavatam in chapters 4, 5, 6 through the example of Vyasadeva Vyasadeva had written a phenomenal amount of literature but even after that he was dissatisfied but when he started glorifying Krishna at that time he got satisfaction similarly when we use our higher consciousness our developed capacity for enquiry and try to direct that enquiry towards Krishna then we will get far greater satisfaction than what we may get by directing our intelligence in any other field and here the Bhagavatam directs Parikshit Maharaj if you look at the meta context of the Bhagavatam Parikshit Maharaj is already a devotee and sometimes when we see some of the questions that Parikshit Maharaj asks we wonder, even I know the answer to this question does Parikshit Maharaj not know the answer we may get so there if now we may say I know the answer but there is knowing and there is knowing there is knowing in terms of intellectually knowing and there is knowing in terms of internalising and accepting so Parikshit Maharaj knows the answers also but he is enquiring so that there can be deeper understanding there can be internalisation of the knowledge and I conclude with one point this internalisation is not simply through mechanical repetition sometimes when we have classes and we hear the same thing again and again and then we are told we should have taste Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had such taste that he could hear the same past time hundreds of times yes that is true but if we are sharing Krishna's message we should not demand that people should have taste rather we should study Shastra so deeply and present Shastra in such an attractive way that people naturally develop taste it is not that the speaker's responsibility is to just repeat the same old thing and expect that the audience should develop taste yes the audience should think yes I should become pure and I should develop taste more and more but the speaker's responsibility is the speaker should always try to give deeper insights by which the audience will feel attracted and that's how the taste will become deeper and deeper so there is a taste which comes when we are when we are in love with Krishna at that time just hearing about Krishna even if we have heard the same past time many many times because we will be remembering Krishna more and more so we will have taste but none of us are at that level so at our level it is our responsibility to study Shastra and Prabhupada said understand scripture and present it from different perspectives so that we see from different perspectives we get fresher and fresher insights and then our taste develops so developing taste is the joint responsibility of the teacher and the seeker.

The seeker should be willing to hear more and more but the speaker should also be willing to study deeply and present in such a way that the seekers are assisted not impeded in their search for taste and that's what is the responsibility of the living bhakti tradition. Now actually Prabhupada in the early days he was asked Prabhupada you know everyday we could just have your Bhagavatam class isn't it? You know none of us have as much knowledge as you have everyday you could just have a recording of your Bhagavatam class being played everywhere Prabhupada said no he said you should study you should understand and you should speak yes you should study my books that is important but after that it is not just the study of the books we have to ourselves become transformed we have to ourselves become teachers we have to become practitioners so the living bhakti tradition is important to keep the tradition living so we have to ourselves become we have had great previous acharyas exalted previous acharyas phenomenal learned but the tradition will continue on in this generation through us the previous acharyas have preached in their generation and they will preach in this generation but they need instruments in this generation and thus we are the instruments so the responsibility for keeping the bhakti tradition living in this generation is with us the previous acharyas cannot do it in this generation of course they can do it and they will do it if we don't do it they will make somebody else as the instrument but the point is somebody in this generation is required so the previous acharyas are not a substitute for the present teachers of course the present teachers are not a substitute for the previous acharyas also there is a symbiotic relationship between the two we cannot hide behind the back of the previous acharyas we have to take the responsibility and the war has to be fought in this generation see every generation there will be misconceptions and the misconceptions that are there in that generation have to be countered by the people of that generation the prabhupada could very well have said what is the need for me to write books jiyugoswami has written all the books yes jiyugoswami has written all the books vishwanachikata has written all the books but prabhupada had to write because the culture at that time, ethos at that time was different so every generation has to do jijnasa the point I am making here is two fold jijnasa is see when we are living backward there is the tradition and around us is the contemporary world so the tradition has to be connected with the contemporary world so the jijnasa is about the tradition to understand the tradition but the jijnasa also has to be made relevant to the contemporary generation that means how is the traditions message relevant to people today so if we are connected only with the tradition and not with the contemporary generation then the tradition becomes a museum the tradition becomes a museum things are very nicely preserved but they are of no practical use to anyone so if we are not aware of the if we are not inquisitive it is not that we want to learn from the contemporary generation because we think that the knowledge from the Acharyas is deficient no, we want to learn the contemporary ethos so that we can present their wisdom there present the wisdom of the Acharyas there so if we are only connected with the tradition and not connected with the contemporary if our jijnasa is only in this direction and not in this direction then we will become, we will reduce our tradition to just a museum, on the other hand if we are inquisitive only about the contemporary things and we don't study Shastra then we will just become a deviation in the sense that we will be just another part of the modern, post-modern landscape with no rooting in our tradition so go too much in one direction, we become irrelevant go too much in another direction we become deviant so there has to be the dynamic connection between both we study from the previous Acharyas, we study the wisdom that we have given in Shastra and then we look at the world around us understand the world around us and present Shastra in a way that is intelligible to people in the world then the Bhakti tradition will not only be living but it will be blossoming and it can benefit many many people all over the world because wherever people are there are always people who are enquiring what they will enquire about will depend on what seems interesting what seems relevant, what seems meaningful to them so if the Bhakti tradition is presented in an interesting, relevant, meaningful way then their inquisitiveness will be directed towards that and they will come towards Krishna so I'll summarise started by talking about how all living beings have the capacity for inquisitiveness because Atma is Chit, it has the capacity for consciousness but where that inquisitiveness will be directed depends not so much on the brain's capacity, that's just the hardware it depends on the conditionings in the mind and they will direct for non-human species directed towards Aahaar, Nidra, Bhaya, Maithun so in humans because we have higher intelligence, we do higher activities of culture, art, literature, music, science but it goes up but then it falls down with a big bank, why? because there is no, it's not connected with the highest reality so we study science and technology but then we use all the advanced science and technology to do, to think of eating, sleeping, mating, defending ultimately so it is not that science alone is about enquiry and religion is about dogma religion also, at least in the Vedic tradition it involves enquiry it calls for inquisitiveness but it asks for inquisitiveness about higher realities, realities beyond the material and a major part of the class was focused on how the mode of enquiry within science doesn't work today in terms of giving us higher truths, spiritual truths because science focusses on controlling things, studying matter and controlling matter to know it better but God is the controller, so by definition itself, the methodology which requires control cannot understand the one who is beyond, who can't be controlled, just as a black and white TV can't show a colour image so the diagnosis is wrong no matter how precise the prescription and how precisely the prescription is followed still the patient will not be cured so similarly, if we are enquiring only in terms of matter if I ask how did light come from darkness if I ask how did consciousness come from matter, no matter how sincerely I enquire, I will not get the right answer because my starting question itself is wrong so we do need to accept authority and even if we have had bad experiences with different authorities and we are doubtful, doubt is a protector it can be a protector just as I won't open a door of my house to anybody and everyone because I have doubts who is going to come in like that on the doors of our intelligence we don't open to everyone we shouldn't close the door to everyone, we need to differentiate between who is harming us and who is helping us so there is doubt in the beginning of intelligence but doubt is not the end of intelligence we need to move further from doubt and the scriptures are a reliable authority for us but when people turn away from scripture, that is not because scripture itself has a problem, it is because those who are supposed to teach scripture, often they misrepresent or misuse scripture and lastly we concluded while discussing about how when we are studying scripture whatever be the field of knowledge that we are studying, in the material world we all will specialise in different branches of knowledge, whatever it is, we connect it with Krishna and then yayaatma suprasidati that will bring us lasting satisfaction. Are there any questions? So to present bhakti to contemporary audiences how can we study the contemporary mind without becoming contaminated by it see ideally what we should have is senior devotees who have studied scripture deeply and who are very deeply rooted in scripture, they do the studies and they provide books for us so traditionally how it is there were the advaitins and the dvaitins for example the dvaitavadis, the followers of madhwa, practically their whole life mission was they have to defeat mayavad their condition for taking sannyas is that in a live debate you should be able to defeat mayavadis only then you will be allowed to take sannyas so it was like that so the point is but now how do you defeat mayavad without studying mayavad, so what they would do is for almost 20 to 30 years of their training they would not study any mayavadi book, they would study books refuting mayavad by their own teachers so the leaders of the tradition they would study the mayavadi books and they would refute the books and then the students who are there, they would study those books so that way what happens is the opponents if you directly are exposed to them, see logic and reasoning are ultimately games they are tools somebody who is a better logician than us, even if that person is expounding a wrong doctrine that person may use a tool of logic more expertly than us and we may get bewildered just like if somebody is fighting with a gun two people are fighting with swords now somebody may be on the side of virtue, somebody may be on the side of vice but if the person who is on the side of vice is better trained in fighting with sword then that person will win so like that if we directly read books of atheists if we directly read books of sceptics, these are people who have devoted their life for studying atheism so they may use their logic and if we are confronted with that, sometimes we may get bewildered because logic is a skill and we may not be that equipped in that skill so ideally speaking, what we should do is, if we want to target a particular audience, we should see if there are devotees who have already targeted this audience and we meet those devotees, talk with those devotees and learn from them and so, for example certain devotees may have studied science deeply, so we read their books and then we understand that these are the issues involved so basically we can prepare a concentric circle first circle is directly Prabhupada's books and the priest Acharya's books which are directly about bhakti another circle will be outside that will be books written by devotees about contemporary subjects so then, those books if we study, then we get the necessary information about the outside world, at the same time the misconceptions that are there we don't get just the misconceptions, we get the misconceptions with the counter to the misconceptions also, so now if there are some subjects for which devotees have not written books then we should look for books that are written by other like-minded people, so for example if you want to refute an atheist and we found that no devotees have written the book then we can look at other theistic scholars maybe some Christians maybe some impersonalists, they may have written some books now there, we don't have to look at the Christian part or the impersonalist part, we can look at how they have refuted atheism and if we want to go further beyond that, we can look at secular thinkers, so if we want to understand the whole debate of between say, I.D. and science I.D. and Intelligent Design and Atheists so Intelligent Design proponents are going to talk about their world view Atheists are going to talk about their world view sometimes there are academic scholars who bring both of it all together, so they leave it indecisive this is their perspective, this is their perspective, you leave it at that so sometimes we may read those books but ideally speaking as our tradition moves onwards if we see the Christian Conscious movement has been there for 40-50 years now 50 years now, and there are a good number of books written by by the second by post Prabhupada disciples and the Prabhupada grand disciples and this legacy needs to grow as we move onwards, so that devotees will have their intellectual resources for presenting bhakti in the contemporary tradition so ideally, look for books by devotees, if not then look for, there is no need to directly go and read the books of the people who are proponents of certain anti-devotional ideas we can look at the books which explain those ideas with the refutation of those ideas there are on my website, thespiritualscientist.com I have written, there is an answer transcription is there or if you want to present bhakti intellectually, which are the books that we can read so I have given a listing of the books by different devotee scholars and what those books are about, brief summary it is not an exhaustive summary but it is an indicative summary where we can understand, these are the books we can read so we should try to find within the devotee tradition or within the broad theistic world view, the knowledge by which we can counter or at least address the misconceptions that may be present in the culture does that address your question? yeah, it is there on the website any other questions? yeah okay yeah so sometimes we get the question that when we preach, we feel that we did certain things wrong if we did something else, we would have been able to do things better so if we are the instruments of the acharyas now how can we be proper instruments our deficiencies come in the way of the acharyas reaching others yes, that is always possible and that is why it is important to introspect and learn nobody is perfect in the first time one of Prabhupada's senior disciples once Prabhupada was hearing his own lecture and he was in the two pastimes Prabhupada was hearing his own lecture so the devotee went and asked Prabhupada Prabhupada, you were hearing your own lecture? Prabhupada said, I just wanted to check whether I told all the points that I wanted to tell or not so he said that Prabhupada said I would myself practise we know when he was alone, he would write his purports Prabhupada said, I will also practise my lectures and another devotee asked Prabhupada Prabhupada, after we give a class how should we feel? what should we feel after we have given a class? Prabhupada said, we should be thinking how could we have given the class better I missed this point I could have given this example I could have given this so we should be thinking, oh I had such a great class everybody is stunned and impressed by my scholarship there is always room for improvement but if we have that introspective attitude we will learn and we will improve but we cannot wait till we improve to start off because if we do that then many times when we say I can't do it what it means is that sometimes we say I can't do this because it is very difficult we may say that is humility, I don't have the qualification for doing it but sometimes it may well be the ego I can't do it means I won't do it unless I will do it perfectly that is the ego speaking the ego wants us to make sure that when we do something we should be such a performer that everybody will be impressed by what we do and if I do something and nothing wonderful works out then the ego will not get any gratification so I am not saying it is always like that but sometimes what may seem like humility may not be a humility whatever knowledge we have, we start sharing and along the way we keep learning because if we wait, we can keep there are so many scriptures to study I have not yet studied this, I have not yet studied this we start teaching and we keep learning it is also very helpful if we have some other devotees who are also involved in similar services then we can share our experience and we can learn, when this question was asked maybe I could have answered like this or in this situation I could have dealt like this so if you have some other devotees who are doing similar services by discussing with them also we learn a lot but as far as our mistakes are concerned it is better in a sense to commit mistakes and learn than to never do anything at all because if we never do anything we will never learn and Krishna can work even through our mistakes that is the expertise of Krishna that means that even if we even if we are not able to present the message properly if we at least present some part of the message people may get attracted and then they may come and ask some other devotees who may answer better but at least the journey starts off so also we shouldn't be over confident or arrogant about our capacities if we don't know certain subjects we don't have to speak necessarily about those subjects certain subjects we study properly and we present them properly and what we don't know we can always connect people with senior devotees or ask some senior devotees and get the answers there are both ways there is danger, there is being over confident and making a mess of things but equally problematic is being diffident and never doing anything so to conclude and answer the example we are living in a spiritual emergency so suppose there is epidemic and normally medicine is to be administered by a trained doctor but now there are so many sick people and the number of trained doctors are so few so even people who have little medical training they are also told you know you do this test, you administer this medicine or you at least prepare the patient for for treatment or whatever so Kaliyuga is like an age of spiritual emergency and the really expert teachers, there are master surgeons there are very few so what do we do we all have some medical training, we have some spiritual knowledge so we have to assist those who are the trained teachers so now as long as we remember that we are the assistants then we will do what we can, we give some basic medicines with you we at least get people to come to the temple we get them to read Prabhupada's books we get them to connect with the tradition that is the basic thing we can do but what we shouldn't do is many times what I can tell from my own experience you know our arrogance is proportional to our ignorance that means that when we are very new we think you know I am right and everyone else is wrong and I have to prove to them that they are wrong and what happens is we sometimes speak very confrontationally very cuttingly this is wrong, this is fool, rascal, this, that it's like you know, in one meeting before even the diagnosis is complete we want to have the surgery also completed so that doesn't work, in fact in the same situations, I have seen more senior devotees the same question they answer very sensitively, very careful because if a person is a really good surgeon, that surgeon also knows all the complications that can happen in surgery surgeon is very careful, ok, I know I have to test the pulse like this, I have to do this like this, after that I will do the surgery so what happens, the newer we are we think that we have to do the complete job by the time after one meeting with me is over, this person should be an enlightened soul it doesn't work like that it's a very gradual process so if we think that we have to purify people, then we will feel very burdened and we will make a mess of things also, we should just say that our goal is not to purify people our goal is to inspire them to connect with the process of purification so we understand our role properly and we do that and just like people have misconceptions, we have to counter the misconceptions that is like doing surgery but in surgery it has to be done by experts so we don't have to necessarily counter every misconception that people have see, after meeting a devotee if a person feels that I met a nice person I would like to meet such people once again in future, that itself is a success of preaching, it's not that by one meeting a person was an atheist next moment, oh I accept Krishna as the supreme personality of Godhead, that's not going to happen it takes time so if rather than putting a big goal for our preaching that we have to free people from all misconceptions get them connected with the process that will free them from misconceptions, if we keep a modest goal, then not only we will not make a mess of things, also we will not burden ourselves with too much trouble, yes we can definitely connect people with the process of purification and Krishna will take care of them so devotee's mode is that, if they don't know, then that is my problem if they don't want to follow, that is their problem, so I give them the knowledge in a way that will attract them to come towards Krishna and that means giving knowledge in a proper dosage also, it's not that first standard maths teacher will give triple integral calculus to the to the first standard student, no, it should be in proper dosage, so just give some basic things which will inspire people to come towards Krishna and then once they are connected with the process of purification, they will move onwards does it answer the question? okay, when we are preaching how are the acharyas working through us? firstly it is their message that we are presenting, secondly it is their intelligence, their mercy by which we are in a position where we can preach not just intellectually, but also we are following Shastra to some extent, we are living as practitioners of the bhakti tradition that is also by their mercy and the acharyas work as I said, through their instruments that means it is their mercy which gives us the intelligence but it is for us to take their intelligence according to our capacity so Prabhupada said my books are written by Krishna but then Prabhupada put his name below his books, he did not put Krishna over there, so when we say we are an instrument, that does not mean that the instrument is unimportant the instrument is also important Prabhupada's books are written by Krishna, but still they are also written by Prabhupada, it is not that when you say Krishna has written the books, Prabhupada has not written the books not like that, it is Krishna writing through Prabhupada, Prabhupada is very much the author that is why the English which is there in Prabhupada's books is the English that he had learnt in the 1920s so it is a symbiotic performance the acharya's mercy empowers us but we will act in our own ways we have particular kind of body particular kind of mind and we have particular set of interests and in a sense to use a new age term, people say just be yourself so actually bhakti helps us to truly be ourselves each of us is an individual and initially it appears as if all devotees we have the same kind of dress the same tilak, all of you have become externally conformists but we follow the process of bhakti, our individuality comes out, that is why we will see the leaders of our movement every one of them is an individual they follow the same process of bhakti but by the process of bhakti, our pure individuality starts coming out so when we want to become instruments of the prince acharya, that doesn't mean that we have to suppress our individuality it means that we take inspiration from them, we take guidance from them and we look at what our nature is what our interests are, what our talents are and then we share their message using our talents does it answer the question? thank you very much shloka shloka shloka shloka shloka.