Comparing Ramayana and Mahabharata 3 – How to see and seek God amid adversities
And the mind is Hare Krishna so today we come to the concluding part of our discussion on the comparison of Ramayana and the Mahabharata Ram Leela and Krishna Leela and we are focussing on the theme of how do when bad things happen to good people how do good people respond to that in the first session I talked about how when bad things happen there can be multiple causes for that and in the morning session I talked about three broad factors there is God's will, there is free will and there is evil and then we concluded by how how do we respond there are two forms of surrender that is either by dependence on the lord or diligence of the lord so today I will take this forward and we will look at how issues are resolved so if we consider the Ramayana eventually in one sense there is a difference between the nature of the war in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata in the Ramayana it is Kaikeyi who is the cause of the exile but there is no war over there there is another person who comes in the picture there is Ravan and while Ram, Lakshmi and Sita are in the forest he abducts Sita and then there is a war between them whereas in the case of the Mahabharata it is the Kauravas who conspired and had the Pandavas banished and after that it is the war is with those same people who have exiled them there are many many characters in the Mahabharata but overall the storyline is that it is the same characters who are continuing to do it we see on one side in the Ramayana there is reconciliation at the end between reunion and reconciliation and Ram and Lakshmi and Sita come back all the people are welcoming them Kaikeyi is also there and of course Bharat is there to welcome so there is confrontation but there is also reconciliation on the other hand if you see in the case of the Ramayana there is confrontation between Ram and Ravan there also what happens is it is Viveshan who is enthroned as the king after that if you consider the Mahabharata there is a confrontation between the Pandavas and the Kauravas and after that we have Yudhishthir who becomes the king and still Mithrashtra continues to have a position of respect and honour so I talked earlier about how there is weakness and wickedness and depending on weakness we can have forgiveness but with respect to wickedness there has to be justice, there has to be punishment so with that background let's look at some salient incidents in the final battle that illustrate some principles about how Hare Krishna about how we can move on in our life amid distress so life is tough and there are times when we have to confront when we confront someone it's not pleasant in fact even intense verbal conversation so that is also a confrontation and in that confrontation we can say that there is a continuous reincarnation that is happening I have certain ideas, this is like this and if I am really listening to the other person and other person I thought it's like this but now I am saying like this so basically what happens is the conception of the same thing but the conception of that thing has changed so it's like your soul remains the same but the body changes so like that a good conversation it has an aspect of confrontation and in confrontation there is reincarnation reincarnation of ideas reincarnation of conceptions so I thought it like this but now I understand it like this so basically most of us may not have physical confrontations where we don't have to fight wars most of us are not Kshatriyas but we all have verbal confrontations and even if we don't have verbal confrontations we can say there is always confrontation between our conceptions and reality and then sometimes we can get we can mould reality according to our conceptions and sometimes reality remoulds our conceptions so we all there is confrontation constantly in life if we look at the microscopic level constantly there are microbes there are germs which are attacking our body and there are the defenders of the WV they are defending our body so the whole body itself is constantly a battle zone and constantly similarly at every level of the universe there is confrontation so there is confrontation between various aspects and sometimes in the universe there is there is physical confrontation in the Ramayana in the Mahabharata they depict the physical confrontation that is of course historical that is of course devastating and destructive but at the same time it is also reflective of what happens throughout history at various levels so now when we are facing difficulties in our lives at that time broadly speaking we are staying in a disempowering situation some situation which is comfortable for us that has changed and we don't seem to have the power to change it or at least we can't immediately change it so for example Ram he changed the situation of Sita being abducted by winning the war and getting Sita back but he couldn't change the situation by changing Ravan's heart there is repeated warnings and demonstrations of power but nothing worked for Ravan Hanuman gave a warning I am writing a new book on the Ramayana I talk about how Ravan had 10 heads but 0 brains laughter laughter and actually 10 people gave him warnings that if you don't confront Ram it will cause you destruction but all of these 10 people gave not one of them he misled so although at one level Ram won the war and gave Sita back there were some battles which just can't be won Ravan was too attached to his conceptions and he couldn't give it up so he gave up his life but he did not give up his conceptions that I am the angel I want to possess an angel Sita on the other hand we see something similar happens in Duryodhana the Pandavas fight a battle and eventually the Kauravas have to be killed but then what happens eventually Vidura fights another battle with Dhritarashtra that is the Varguna battle and in that he is able to enlighten Dhritarashtra that means what? he is able to change Dhritarashtra change Dhritarashtra's heart the point is that there are different ways to fight battles and there are different victories in different battles so each battle will have a different definition of victory generally when discussions stop sometimes if we have discussions with people then sometimes there are confrontations, quarrels then we just stop it's fine if two people can work separately but sometimes by that misunderstanding will not work so misunderstanding will not work so we have to find out what is the best way to move on sometimes just two people going away and each of them gets their space and they do what they want to do that may work but sometimes two people going away means both of them sometimes we say out of sight is out of mind that is true if the mind is out of it sometimes what happens is out of sight is out of mind sorry, out of sight is out of mind when the mind is out of it if the mind is still in it then we are still replaying it we are increasing our anger and resentment and that is quite hurtful so here we are generalising this principle that when there are issues and we are dealing with issues sometimes confrontation is required now when confrontation is required what do we do how do we move forward see basically for every one of us we need a sense of purpose and a sense of focus these are fundamental human needs we talk about food, clothing, shelter, air, water they are all important but along with these these are not physical needs at a metaphysical level even if somebody says i don't believe in any philosophy people who say i don't believe in any philosophy they are following a philosophy philosophy is the sophistry of fools sophistry is false happiness everybody has a philosophy nobody can say that i don't have a philosophy its just that some people have not thought about their philosophy even if somebody says you know i only i don't worry about any other world i only focus on the here and now and i enjoy the here and now that's a philosophy that's a philosophy of materialism that the here and now is what matters and is that necessarily true that's the top of the question so everybody has some philosophy which guides them so basically we all need in our life a sense of purpose this is the direction i am going and we need a sense of progress that i am able to move in this direction now what is this what is the sense of purpose say for example a student is studying and the student is told you are in grade 1 now and you study for the next 15 years and you will stay in grade 1 for the next 15 years then why should i study i want to study because i want to move in a particular direction there is purpose and progress these two are vital so if we face a situation where we all have set up a purpose for our life our purpose might be i want to grow financially i want to grow my relationships i want to grow my health i want to grow spiritually i want to do service more we all have a purpose in our life and we feel our life is on track when we have a purpose and we are able to progress in that purpose now of course different people have different purposes but what we want is a purpose that is meaningful if somebody says the purpose of my life i have got this vacation i am on this vacation everyday i am going to watch six movies well ok you can do that but after some time you just get bored with it that is not a very meaningful purpose so what we want in life is some purpose that is very meaningful that is something very important something which makes us feel that our life is valuable this is important to understand that ultimately or institutively it boils down to one point does my existence matter does my existence and does my endeavour matter at all so when whatever you do at least consider what is the difference for anyone is it going to matter and believe that sometimes people feel i have low self esteem, i have inferiority complex i have depression now all of these can have various causes but ultimately the bottom line of feeling that nothing matters whatever i do nothing is going to matter even my existence will not matter so there are, life can put us through various losses in the previous session i talked about what we live with and what we live for what we live with are our resources what we live for is our purposes now of course the resources and purpose are related if i want to go to a particular destination, i have a car i drive to a destination the car is the resource and the destination that i want to go to is the purpose so we all set up certain purposes for us so if say Ram's purpose is that work, suppose Ram's purpose is that i want to become the human being and then he will exactly then this is terrible this is unjust what is this, why is this happening so what happens is when we set up certain purposes sometimes situations can completely thwart those purposes and when that purpose is thwarted what do we do with that so if if we consider Guru Gandhi, his purpose was constantly that i want to be the guru and it's interesting he didn't just want to be the guru king he just said Vidrashtra was the guru king and he would also become the guru king if we want to be happy it's possible to be happy but we want to be happier than others and that is impossible so what happened was Vidrashtra sorry the real man he responds to this guru king but then he saw the Rajyotsuya where Yudhishtira had far greater prosperity he said how can you do this how can i how can i his argument was that how can a self respecting person be happy when his rival is more prosperous than him that is a very very disempowering foundation for one's happiness i have to be happier than someone else so now we see when Ram his purpose at one level is not to become the king his purpose was i want to serve my father as a service to my father i will become a king as a service to my father i am ready to go to the palace the Pandavas, their purpose even when Yudhishtira performed the Rajasthani yajna, it was to serve Krishna that Yudhishthira became the emperor and then he offered the Agra Puja to Krishna and that's how he was able to succeed that was his purpose that we want Krishna to be our emperor so we all can have many specific purposes in our life and we all want to pursue our purposes but sometimes some purposes just get spotted and when a purpose gets spotted what do we do at that time either we keep starting like this or we see that this purpose is a part of something bigger what do i mean by something bigger that yes we all have if you consider the standard example that the Mahabharata uses that Kunti Maharani prays that let my consciousness flow toward you as the Ganga flows toward the ocean it was the last prayer that she offers that let my consciousness not go anywhere let it go only toward you and before my incredible words that she says let calamities come more and more because then we can remember we can see more and more the idea is for her if we consider our various purposes they are like tributaries for the river the water stream is flowing in it and if a river is flowing from mountain down then at that time there are different tributaries one flows this path, one flows another path, one flows another path and ultimately the river is meant to go to the ocean and for the river if one particular path is blocked sometimes we just keep pushing and the path erodes and the obstacle erodes the point is that for us if we understand the principles of bhakti and ashrastra of offering our ultimate purpose is to get our consciousness to flow toward the river that ultimately our purpose is to connect with Krishna to learn to love Krishna and everything we are doing is for that purpose if we have now we will have many other purposes but if those purposes become our foremost purpose then when that purpose is thwarted then what am I doing? why am I doing this? what should I do now? we see this sense of futility when we function in the world perhaps it's very easy to get caught in pursuing a material purpose even if it is for a spiritual purpose so actually more or less it's amazing how the same same set of doubts, emotions and negativity that Arjuna goes through before the Kurukshetra war something similar Yudhishtira goes through after the Kurukshetra war before the Kurukshetra war it is it's not worth fighting for mere even a week I shouldn't fight with my relatives it's not worth it it says that Arjuna the spoils of this war is tainted by blood, it's not worth it then Krishna Krishna tells Arjuna you are not fighting this war for simply you are fighting the war to establish Dharma and actually Dharma is what? to ourselves go closer to Krishna to help others go closer to Krishna and it is for this purpose you are fighting and that's why at the end of the Bhagavad Gita when Krishna concludes and then Arjuna responds Arjuna doesn't say I will fight the war Arjuna's concluding verse is that is Krishna Arjuna Krishna Krishna Krishna Nata Nata so he in that situation for him fighting was the way to do Krishna Krishna was not thinking I'm going to fight He was thinking, I am going to be Krishna's devotee. Now for Yudhishthir also, something similar happened. And he fought and he won.
So that was the sheer catastrophic cost of the war. What does that mean? Why did it cost so much? What is the value of all this? So when that happened, it is actually Bhishma who consoled Yudhishthir. And how did Bhishma console Yudhishthir? There is one verse which is very puzzling at the same time revealing.
Vishwakidama is speaking and he says Therefore, I am an unclenching devotee. Just for the unclenching devotee, Just see, See how great is the mercy of the Lord. What is the mercy? When I was about to depart from the world, what had happened? He said, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna has come to take me to Krishna.
So now there are several interesting points in this verse. First of all, how can Bhishma say that I am a pure devotee, I am an unclenching devotee. How many devotees say I am not a devotee at all.
There was one American devotee going to my house. He was not a devotee, he was a young person. He is just interested in spirituality.
And he told me one of his experiences. He said that he went to Vyaput and he was there for a few days. And there was somebody here, a very old lady devotee.
She said, actually, you are a devotee. You just don't know you are a devotee. And then, after she told me, actually, I am not a devotee.
I am struggling to become a devotee. So, what does that say? Somebody who is a devotee is saying, I am not a devotee. And somebody who is not a devotee is saying, they are a devotee.
So, of course, there is humility and there is exclusion of hypocrisy. So, the point is that as a devotee, we don't think I am a devotee. And we see, everybody has a potential to love Krishna.
In that sense, everybody is potentially a devotee. But how can the devotee say that I am, because I am unflinching. I am an unalloyed devotee.
I am unflinching devotee. I am one-pointed devotee. So, here, Vishnu Pitamah is actually making some bigger point.
His point is that Vishnu also, Vishnu had a very difficult service. He had to fight against Krishna. And Krishna, from within the heart, inspired him to do that.
And he did that. And that devotional service to the Lord. So, because, he is saying, sometimes, the situations that we are put in are very difficult to deal with.
But if we stay unflinching our emotion, eventually, the Lord will reward us. I don't think just here, over I am behaving. That I have a law in front of me.
So, he is not saying that I am a great devotee. But his point is, he is telling Yudhishthira, that you also be an unflinching devotee. Although, you may feel that, after so much bloodshed, why should I take up this field? But I am a great devotee.
The point is, both Arjuna and Yudhishthira, they are told that you fight not just for winning the war, or ruling the kingdom, you fight for serving the Lord, for establishing the kingdom. So, in general, when we face a big problem, the best way to face a big problem is to find a purpose bigger than the problem. A purpose bigger than the problem.
So, if my purpose is is, say, if my purpose is that I should be considered to be a great teacher. Now, if that is my purpose, then sometimes, sometimes people may appreciate it, sometimes they may not appreciate it. And then I get frustrated.
Now, of course, if we are doing a particular service, we want to result at the external level also. But if that alone is our purpose, sometimes we will be fought. But if the purpose bigger than the problem is, then my purpose is to purify my heart.
I want to speak about Krishna. My purpose is to increase my bhakti for Krishna. Then, when we have a purpose bigger than the problem, then we can persevere through the problem.
So, if the problem is so big, and we feel this problem is completely out of my purpose, then we just can't persevere. So, Sri Prabhupada once told his disciples that my Godbrother went to London. Do you know why I came to America? Why I came to New York? So now, there could be different answers to this.
After the Second World War, the fortunes of Great Britain went down considerably. Great Britain basically became small Britain. At one time it was said that UK is the place where the sun never sets on the British Empire.
When Prabhupada went to London, Prabhupada would go for morning walks in London. Prabhupada said, the sun never rises here. So, at one level, the geopolitical order of the world had changed.
America was least affected by the Second World War. So, there was no direct war on America directly. Everybody was affected.
America gave a super power after that. So, the global centre of influence shifted from UK to America. That's one example.
Prabhupada also gave another example. Prabhupada said, Dad, I found Dad. My Godbrother went to London and fulfilled the instruction of Vasudev Maharaj.
He couldn't succeed. He said, if I am also going to fail, let me at least fail at trying at some other place. So, Prabhupada's purpose was, he was ready, I will not succeed.
Prabhupada's purpose was, I want to fulfil the instruction of Vasudev Maharaj. His instruction was, go and teach in the western world. It is not that you build a temple, it is not that you make hundreds of devotees, it is not that you do the research.
It is go and teach. Go and teach in the western world. So, Prabhupada, at one level, was very determined.
At another level, Prabhupada was very firm. At another level, Prabhupada wasn't flexible. Firm is his purpose.
And, I want to share Krishna's. But, flexible in terms of how I go about things. Initially, he was a butler and then, there in the YMCA, some talks were organised.
But, there, people knew Prabhupada more as a philosophy object rather than a spiritual teacher. And, Prabhupada's size did not fit. He said, there is no point.
Then, he went to a university and he gave a talk over there. And, there it was okay, but people had a more academic interest in him. Then, Prabhupada got a fortune in New York.
And, he came to New York. And, there also, initially, he was just told there are no people. So, Prabhupada was doing Kirtan.
But, through that, he met some people. And, then, he came there and he was basically, Prabhupada was exploring. Prabhupada tried many, many things.
His purpose was to share Krishna's message. And, as far as the path, it was flimsy. If this works, good.
If this doesn't work, let's try that. If this doesn't work, try that. So, if Prabhupada had been, say, fixing, you know, starting the League of Devotees in India, in Jhansi, it was not working.
He said, try it, it will work. Let me go down. It's not working.
So, Prabhupada faced many, many problems. But, his purpose was bigger than those problems. When we talk about a problem, what do we mean? In general, problem means that we have, let's say, a purpose and a path.
A purpose is more like a direction. A path is like a road in that direction. So, whenever we talk about problems, problems generally are about obstacles on the path.
But, the tendency in the material world is that we start equating the path with the purpose. I have to go here, and I have to go this way. If I can't go this way, I am blocked.
So, Prabhupada never let himself get blocked. So, Prabhupada said, try it, will this thing work? This thing works? Let's try this. And then, many things didn't work, and then, at the end of his life, many things worked.
So, for us, when we are when we are facing problems, whatever problem we are facing, it means that we are, we all go along a particular path, and there is an obstacle which we may not be able to remove. It may be a relational obstacle, it may be a health obstacle, it may be a financial obstacle. It may also be an obstacle made of, may be some impurity in our own heart.
We want to remove it, and we go into it. So, whichever obstacle it is, it's important that our purpose not be centred only on removing the obstacle. Okay, this is the direction I want to go.
If I can't go over this path, how can I keep moving forward? How can I keep moving forward? So, all that means that when Vrishti was so despondent, I was trying to protect all these individuals. And just to make myself a king, I called the net of four people. What can you do now? How can I be over here? So, Krishna, through Vishnu, released his consciousness.
Your purpose is not to be king. Your purpose is to establish that. And, these are the people who are surviving, establish them over here.
We need you. And, when he saw the purpose is not to become a king. The purpose is something bigger than becoming.
In today's world, many people live according to what you can call as nihilism. Nihilism is basically, life has no meaning. Life has no purpose.
The prominent western philosopher, Albert Camus, he said that life is meaningless till life is meaningful. Therefore, the only philosophical question the world is asking is whether to commit suicide today or tomorrow. And he wrote many books.
Till I read, don't commit suicide today. So, actually, without any spiritual understanding, ultimately, the big picture, that I have worked so hard and I have achieved this, I have achieved that and some storm comes in my life and everything gets destroyed. What is the point of doing all this? The point is that for everything that we do, there is an external result which we all want.
When we are giving a class, we want that people should appreciate, not just appreciate, grow in Krishna consciousness. If we are doing, say, if we are parents, taking care of our children, we want our children to grow up into good human beings, good devotees. So, all these are important purposes but the external purpose is not really the purpose.
Ultimately, doing everything to be a mode of service to Krishna, to connect with Krishna. And in many situations, the external result and the internal result, they both come together. And in some situations, we may have, we may not get the external result no matter what we do.
So, at that time, we have to look for the internal result. I am doing this. In this particular case, the result does not come.
So, what do I do? I give up. That does not necessarily mean that I just keep doing the thing. But sometimes, it's an obligation to do it.
Sometimes, it's not an obligation, it's to help others. But we don't get fixated with the external result. We don't get fixated in trying to remove the external obstacle.
And when we have this vision, then we can keep moving forward in all situations. So, I started by talking about purpose and purpose. That we all need this.
I am moving. Sometimes, the external result is not coming at all. Then why am I doing all this? When the external result is not coming, maybe we have to try some other path to get the external result.
Some external result. And more importantly, when the external result is not coming, then the internal purpose is not coming. That is the inner growth, the inner connection with Krishna.
I am moving. Why do we do all this? I will make one more point and then I will conclude if you have questions. I said in the previous session that when we are having distress, we can have broadly three different conceptions of Krishna.
Krishna is the cause of the difficulty. Krishna is the cause of the distress. Krishna is the comforter of the distress.
And Krishna is the cure for the distress. And now, in general, we cannot simplistically say that everything, everything that happens is God's doing. It is not that God is causing anything.
But when bad things happen in life, that is just the way life is. So, in the Bhishma's pastime, तस्यान वीता राजः तस्यान वीता राजः Bhishma says. Prabhupada translated very beautifully.
He doesn't say that everything is the Lord's plan. He says everything is within the Lord's plan. What is the difference between everything is the Lord's plan and everything is within the Lord's plan? It's like, say, we are driving to a particular place and we need a GPS.
And the GPS says, turn left. And we turn right. Lot of GPS.
Really? Really else. You didn't obey me? Get lost. But the GPS doesn't do that.
So, why? Even if you have turned right, even the right turn and the path, GPS will already map that out. And from there, GPS will create a path for us and lead us. So, Krishna is the ultimate GPS.
And because there is a path for our life. But sometimes we take the wrong turn. It's because of our own impurity, because of our misuse of free will, or because the evil people come in our way, or the past karma comes in our way.
And then we can't go from there. We turn. So, now, everything is not necessarily God's plan.
If we make some terrible mistake, or somebody else makes some terrible mistake, or somebody does something evil, all that is not God's plan. There is a wrong turn to the road of life. But everything is within the God's plan.
Even if we take a wrong turn, still, Krishna can get us moving in the right direction. Every wrong turn will have consequences. No doubt.
It will take time to get to the right destination, but it's a wrong turn. What? No wrong turn will mean that we can no longer come back. That we have got out of Krishna's plan.
It's still within Krishna's plan. So, I talked about the cause, the compulsor, and the cure. Sometimes, if we start thinking that it's Krishna, okay, this terrible thing that is happening in my life, is Krishna really there? Well, it is very difficult to know that.
Ultimately, Krishna is, Krishna's purpose ultimately is to help us to come to God. Specifically, that somebody is doing something, is Krishna really there? We don't know. It's very difficult to know.
For some people, it might be favourable. What? This stuff is coming in my life? Krishna is telling me. If somebody can have that vision and stay favourable to Krishna, that Krishna is doing this for me, for my good.
So, it's like a surgeon makes a surgeon. It's painful, but it's for our good. Sometimes, we have that vision.
But, it's very difficult when we are going through difficulties, especially when we can see a personal agency for that difficulty. This person is doing like this. Is Krishna really there? So, that cause, it's difficult for us to figure that out.
Why? Sometimes, we think Krishna should be the cure for my illness. That means, I pray to Krishna, and then Krishna removes the box. So, actually, Krishna can do that.
But, that is not necessarily always the way Krishna works. The idea is that, in this world, even Krishna removes one difficulty and another difficulty. And, Krishna is the cure in the ultimate sense.
Krishna says that, He will even cure us in the sense that, He will raise our consciousness beyond the grave. Krishna says to Arjuna, Krishna says to Durga, Krishna says to Saraswati, If you become conscious of me, we will pass over all obstacles by my grace. Now, He says, we will pass over all obstacles.
He is not saying, you will not have any obstacle. He is not saying that, I will remove all obstacles. Arjuna faced many, many reversals during the war.
Abhimanyu was killed before the Raghavata of Arjuna. Ravana was killed. and it is extremely painful.
But Krishna is taking care of it. So Krishna is the ultimate cure. It is not necessary that Krishna is the immediate cure.
And sometimes, at an immediate level, we may have to do practically some things. And sometimes they may work, sometimes they may not work. If I have got a fracture in my hand, I say, I chant Hare Krishna and the fracture will get cured.
Well, no, you got a fracture, go to a doctor. We don't confuse, like in the previous question, you have asked for science and scientific explanation. They are correct, but they are not complete.
So we have to sometimes work at a practical level to cure also. So we do what we can, but sometimes the material cures don't work. So if we expect Krishna to be the cure, there are two broad possibilities.
We think that Krishna will cure the material problem. And we don't do anything to do it. Just I chant and everything is alright.
Well, Prabhupada said, chant Hare Krishna and be happy. And it is true. But Prabhupada himself did not just chant Hare Krishna and Vrindavan all his life.
Prabhupada in the age of 70 alone went to America. Came to America and he endeavoured. So if Prabhupada says chant Hare Krishna at one level, it is specifically chanting.
At another level, it also means chanting Hare Krishna gives you a lot of satisfaction. And Prabhupada did give a lot of satisfaction. So Prabhupada also did what was required at the material level.
Trying this, trying that, whatever. And sometimes something works, sometimes it doesn't work. So if we see Krishna as a cure for our suffering, sometimes we will be disappointed.
Sometimes it may work, sometimes it may not. But if we see Krishna as our comforter, as our strength among ourselves, we stop expecting that Krishna will logically remove the problem, but that Krishna will give us the strength to deal with the problem. Krishna under the strength primarily is… Sridhar Swami in his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita in the 12th chapter, he gives a very interesting purport to this 12.6 and 7. This 12.6 and 7 is… 12.6… Krishna is saying, if you become devoted to me, I will lift you out of the ocean of material possessions.
I will lift you out. I urge you, I am so ready for that. So what does it mean? So Sridhar Swami says, he correlates 12.7 with 10.10 in the Bhagavad Gita.
10.10 is… He says, I will help you rise above the situation. I will give the intelligence by which you will come to me. So this intelligence is the way Krishna lifts the devotee out of the material world.
How does Krishna lift us out? It is by giving us the intelligence to transcend the situation. So you are saying, it is interesting, what does he say? He is not saying, I will give you the intelligence to solve the problem. I will give the intelligence to come to me.
Sometimes we come to him by solving the problem. Sometimes we come to him by learning to live with the problem. Sometimes we come to him by just leaving the problem.
I don't want to get involved in this. I have to tolerate, mitigate, integrate. Whichever works.
But the idea of Krishna is, I will give you the intelligence to come to me. So now these two… Combine these two. I started by talking about the purpose.
We need a purpose bigger than the problem. And that purpose is connected with Krishna. And then, what is Krishna's role? Krishna gives us the knowledge by which we can pursue that purpose.
That I will come to you. That is the purpose. That is the knowledge that Krishna always gives us.
And if we have that knowledge, in all situations, we will be progressing towards it. And we will have problems. It is not possible in this world that problems go away.
But… The problems we will be facing will not ever arise. We may have to live with pain. But we won't have to live with pain.
Our goal, our purpose is not to succeed in that particular mission. It is much bigger. The world can hurt us in many ways.
But the greater the one's power to hurt, is Krishna's power to hurt. And if we are looking at the world for the situation to become better, we might just keep living like that. But if we turn towards Krishna and focus on connecting with Krishna, we will find that even in the most hurtful situations, it has the power to heal us.
That's how the great people will follow. In every situation, whether it is comfortable or difficult, you say that my purpose is to connect with Krishna. How can I do it for you? What can I do to serve you in this situation? In this particular role, in this particular responsibility, in this particular service.
How can I help you? Again, if you have that service attitude, Krishna will help you. Sometimes that way, suddenly, light gets illuminated. Okay, this is what I am going to do.
Sometimes that way may just take one step forward. Sometimes Krishna's Ram, Kutti, Yogam can come like a streetlight which illuminates the whole path. Sometimes that way just comes as a flashback.
Take it one step forward. Take it one step forward. For Prabhupada, it is just take one step forward.
Okay, let's try this. Let's try this. Take one step forward.
Basically, by taking that one step forward, we will gradually find light. Those dark times that we are going through, those dark times which we reflect. The dark times sometimes can seem to us to be like a tunnel.
But it is not a tunnel, it is a tunnel. And so our focus in serving Krishna is to take one step, one step, one step forward. Gradually we will come out of the tunnel.
And we will come to a brighter place, a better place, a place that is closer to Krishna. And ultimately, we will meet Krishna. In our hearts, eventually, He is the body.
So, in our lives, I have spoken a lot about how we are sent here. How we are given to our Guru. And how we are perceived by the Guru.
So, starting by talking about all of us, we need a sense of purpose and purpose. To realise something. Where am I going? And am I able to move towards the goal that I have? So, without that, we just become abandoned in this heart only.
So, sometimes we like to just take away that place. Like if I just ask that person a question. So, we may have to be unfriendly.
We may have to fight in order to win. But each time we need help. So, Rama thought that I will come here.
So, Ravana thought that I will come here. So, he changed his conception. But that was not a good idea.
He thought that I will come here. And he didn't even come. So, there are two different conception patterns.
One is a physical pattern. So, even though sometimes we know we will meet Krishna. Krishna himself went to Shanti.
That didn't work. The purpose, the confrontation is unavoidable. But then if we get attached to the point that this is the way, this is the battle I want to win.
Sometimes the battle may not be enabled at all. So, we get strength by pursuing a purpose bigger than our problems. And we all have a purpose in our life.
Purposes are like parts. Sorry, the particular things that we set up as goals, they are often the parts. But purpose is much bigger.
Purpose is more like a direction. In the Ganga, if there is one channel that is blocked, there is not another channel to be blocked. So, like that, whatever I am doing, in everything that we do, we are looking for the external result.
And it's important in many roles. But if we get fixated only on the external result, and if we don't get the external result, we think everything is pointless. Why am I doing this? What do you see? Maybe the external result is not coming.
Maybe the internal result of going forward towards Krishna is coming. I don't think this external result will not come. Let some other result come.
Let me see. So, Prabhupada's formalist purpose of trying to share Krishna's message was flexible in how he went about doing it. And whenever we feel disheartened, it is usually because we have got caught in a lower purpose which is being hearted.
So, Arjuna was disheartened before the Kurukshetra war. And Yudhishthira was disheartened after the Kurukshetra war. Because while functioning in the world, their purpose has become, why should we ruin the cause of Kurukshetra? But the point is not to ruin.
The point is to establish. So, first Krishna told Amitabh and then Vishnu through the Shanti Parvata and Shanti Parvata instructions, to raise the consciousness, to show the real purpose. And so, we need to stay focused on this purpose.
And then, talk on the other person. This is what we do. And how would we see Krishna in the world? That if we think Krishna is the cause of our suffering, that is a, we don't really know what the cause of suffering is.
There is no simple indication that Krishna is causing our suffering. But Krishna is like the GPS. Even if we make a wrong turn, Krishna is there too.
Everything is about Krishna's time. But everything is within Krishna's time. Then Krishna is the cure for our suffering? Yes, he is the ultimate cure.
But sometimes there is some other immediate cure may be required. And sometimes there is no immediate cure in the world. If we see Krishna as our comforter, that is, Krishna is with me, then Krishna will give us strength to face these situations.
Krishna lifts the devotees out of the muddled ocean by giving them, devotees, the knowledge of how to come to Him. How to come to Him means, that knowledge is sometimes like a street light, which shows the whole way, sometimes it is like a flashlight. It is one step forward.
And if you keep taking one step, one step forward, eventually you will find that whatever difficulties you are going through, they are not an unusual issue at that. We are like a tunnel, which we walk through. A brighter and better place is closer to our Lord.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So, are there any questions or comments? Yes.
Thank you, Prabhuji, for a very nice talk. One question I wanted to ask, when you talk about influence, like you said you are influencing to come out of the situation, giving you influence to come to Him. But in the morning, we heard about the mind also, like how to handle the mind, how to manage the mind, how to handle the situation.
I was just thinking like, how the intelligence and the mind play the role, like it is more important to give priority to anything to purify, and then automatically the mind will get purified in the same sense. Okay. So, how do intelligence and mind interact in the first step to purify the individuals? You were saying in the Satsang, that Sadhaka is still a spiritual platform by itself.
That Siddha is still a spiritual platform by itself. Siddha has natural love for the Lord. So, because of the love, he is still a spiritual man.
But for us, our devotion is very varied. So, we need to go to Siddha. It is very important.
I studied Shastra of Nanak Shastra. We could say that there is conviction of the intelligence and there is purification of the mind. But now among these two, conviction of the intelligence comes much faster.
If we study, if we analyse, if we reverse our philosophy, we can get that conviction. Actually, stay limit in consciousness, that is something that we will talk. Now, even when we have the conviction, that doesn't necessarily mean that our mind will be aggravated.
So, there is a three-step process. There is conviction of the intelligence that comes by hearing. Then there is, there is engagement.
The engagement in Bhakti is what has to come first, then there is purification of the mind. So, we have to convince our intelligence, the language which we are studying, and then, just that conviction is not enough. How do we engage in Bhakti? And the practise of Bhakti uses the connection with Krishna.
The connection to our DNA which is of the higher taste. When the higher taste comes, it is a much better thing. Why should I be craving for these things? Who is grabbing the money for these things? So, the same way, with respect to physical desires, we can apply the same three steps to difficult results.
Basically, in the world, we can describe two things. The promise of pleasure, and the defect of trouble. So, there are temptations, and there are tribulations.
There are two kind of hurdles. The conviction of intelligence is, yes, in the world there are difficulties, but Krishna is my intelligence. My purpose is to speak and talk to Krishna.
In the mind, there is a language called hyperventilating. Hyperventilating is like, this is terrible, this is the end of world, this is terrible, how is this happening? But things come and go. That means we are focused.
In the conviction of intelligence, we can believe in the mind. And again, the mind's tendency to make problems bigger than what we are looking for. So, that also goes down.
And there is purification of the mind as well. So, there is conviction of intelligence, and hyperventilating. That is called hyperventilating in the mind.
Thank you Krishna. Thank you for the wonderful talk. I just want to, more of a comment and just a transformation from you.
So, in the first class we talked about the three pleasures, Adhyatmika, Adhikotmika, Adhivedhika. And in the second class we talked about the diligent and dependent. And in the third class, we covered obstacles.
So, I am trying to relate all the three, in the sense, when something is in our control, we should put diligence. And then, we are trying to put diligence, and then we are faced with obstacles, which come in the form of Adhyatmika, Adhikotmika, Adhivedhika, etc. So, when such obstacles come, it seems like many times, if the obstacles were not there, we could do better subjects.
You are trying to do something, and you know that, had these obstacles not come, I would have been able to do a better service. But then, your time goes in fighting these obstacles, or trying to remove these obstacles. So, what I am learning is that, Krishna wants us to, by giving these obstacles, he is giving the service of fighting to remove the obstacles, rather than reaching the goal itself.
I am just trying to see the mood that we should have when those obstacles come. So, what is the mood when the obstacles come? At one level, let's put it this way, if we consider four quadrants, there is comfort, not comfort in the sense of luxury, but comfort in obstacles. So, we can say there is comfort and spirituality.
So, one quadrant is no comfort, no spirituality. Second quadrant is comfort, no spirituality. Third is spirituality, no comfort.
Fourth is spirituality, and comfort. So, now, for steady practise of bhakti, we need to be situated in the four quadrants. And that's why Krishna talks first of the four eight is, it is material order.
And then the next word is spiritual order. So, this is the stable state. We need certain level of material comfort in gross spiritual.
Suppose, after this programme, there is prasad. But suppose, after the prasad, there is prasad. But, suppose there is no guarantee there will be prasad.
Then, I have to go and get prasad for the programme. Then, we are not able to focus. Then, occasionally, we might pass on ekadashi or antardashi.
But, regularly, that kind of uncertainty will be there. So, the point is that we need a certain level of comfort and spirituality to go together. This is a steady state.
At this, no comfort, no spirituality, a totally visible state. Comfort and comfort versus spirituality. That is, I will do this.
It will be good, but not on the last programme. So, now, if you see Kunti Maharaj, what is she saying? It is obstacles come again. So, it's like the third quadrant.
No comfort, but spirituality. So, what is going on over here? Is she actually bringing comforts? The mood is there. If that is what is required for me to focus on you, I am ready to do it.
I am ready to accept your love. So, for all of us, we need a certain level of material order, material stability or material comfort so that we can practise spirituality. And, we should not necessarily endeavour to have that material stability.
The three kleshas could mean that the material stability is wonderful. And, if the three kleshas are coming, we strive to count on the three kleshas as much as we can. But the point is that we don't make our spirituality dependent on the mood of the three kleshas.
We strive to be in the fourth quadrant. I want comfort and I want spirituality. But, if the comfort is going away, then in pursuing that comfort, I will move to the second quadrant.
So much that I give up my spirituality. Okay, even if the comfort is not there, I will still spiritually. So, if you consider one, one, two, three, four, you are in the third quadrant.
Now, sometimes, if the comfort and spirituality are going away, if we get so obsessed with solving that material problem, we will just give up our spirituality completely. Now, of course, we may have to adjust to particular emergencies. We may reformulate how we practise our spirituality.
But, if you just give it up completely to the second quadrant, that's undesirable. So, when the bhagavad-gita says that, I'm ready to go here also. I'll still stay connected.
So, we will be willing to accept that sometimes in our spiritual life, we need the fourth quadrant. Where we may have spirituality, but we may not have the third quadrant. But, that doesn't mean that we treat the spirituality in that state itself all the time.
That is where we are regularly when we have to make some adjustments to our spiritual life. For steadiness, we need the third quadrant. But, if we make being the third quadrant of comfort and spirituality the precondition for our spiritual life, that's not good.
And, we see as soon as the Pandavas won the kingdom, or even Ram won in Lanka, one of the first things Ram says is, in Bhishma, he says, I have very little fruits and food for all the Vanakas. They were fighting for me for a long time and as I was poor, I couldn't provide them. When the Devatas come and they thank Ram for a little drought, they say, what can we do? He says, wherever these Vanakas live, they can have a little shortage of food.
So, he really is putting the food on Vanakas. They have a spiritual purpose to serve Ram and they are ready to accept discomfort and death for his sake. But, as soon as the order is restored, Ram arranges for the death of Vanakas.
And, same with the Pandavas. Immediately after Bhishma attained the throne, he gives a series of police measures to take care of all the orphans, the widows, to take care of all the devastation that had happened because of the war. So, the idea here is, if we want to put three classes together in four quadrants, that sometimes, we will get into the quadrant where comfort goes first.
And, at that time, how do we say? If we think that Krishna should bring the comfort back to us, if we reduce our spirituality to four quadrants, why are we not getting over it? Because Krishna is not helping us. That's the third part. Comfort and spirituality.
If we fix it to each of that, then we will feel, I can't be spiritual. But, you see, even if I am not here, even if I am here, that's not true. So, gradually, we come to that level of comfort and spirituality.
But, we are constantly caught in that lack of comfort and spirituality, that's not going to work. Occasionally, we will go to the dark tunnel. Our mood should be there, that, yes, I am ready to go to the dark tunnel.
All difficulties are coming. I am in this quadrant. But, I will try to come to this quadrant.
But, in coming out of comfort, or coming back to comfort, I don't want to give up my spirituality. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Thank you.
One last question. Thank you very much. Shri Prabhupada,.