Cultivating absorption through conviction
So, I'll be talking in this Bhagavatam, 2nd Gita, this is the 11th Canto, and the last verse, or the last chapter of the Buddha Gita, which is titled as Bhakti Yoga. So, earlier we had planned this as a Bhagavatam study, side-by-side, so we would have longer time. I was planning to take a set of verses.
But probably, because of lesser time, we will not be able to take a set of verses. I'll take one verse, I'll lab it, and then we can have question-answers. So, this is 11th, 29th, 4th.
This is Uddhava speaking. And the Uddhava Gita has many similarities with the Bhagavad Gita. The Bhagavad Gita, actually Uddhava Gita in one sense is also Bhagavad Gita.
If you consider the source, Uddhava Gita is also spoken by Bhagavan. But because the Gita that Krishna spoke to Arjuna, that is prominently known as the Bhagavad Gita. So, this Gita is named, not to differentiate it from the other more famous Gita, this Gita is named not after the source of the Gita, but after the object of the Gita.
So, in one sense, by symmetry, you could say both of them are Bhagavad Gita. And the book which we call Bhagavad Gita is, the Bhagavad Gita is spoken to Arjuna, and this is the one which is spoken to Uddhava. But to avoid ambiguity, let us call it Bhagavad Gita.
This is called as Uddhava Gita. Because Uddhava Gita is much longer. Bhagavad Gita has 18 chapters, Uddhava Gita has around 24 chapters.
But it is not just the longer chapters, more number of chapters, but the chapters themselves are much longer. And Krishna goes much deeper in many of the subjects. Now there are various similarities, in terms of even the questions that Uddhava asks.
So, when Krishna talks about the three modes of material nature, Uddhava asks, what are these modes? How does one transcend the modes? How does one know who has transcended the modes? And there is a similar question which Arjuna has asked also. So here, this chapter starts with a question similar to the question asked in the 6th chapter by Arjuna, after hearing the verse of Ashtamya. And he says that, this process is actually not very practical.
He says, He says, this process is not practical because the mind is very restless. And to keep it fixed is very difficult. So here also, Uddhava starts with a similar question.
And he says that, O Lord, I have seen that those people who endeavour in the path of yoga for attaining perfection, they soon become dejected. They become disappointed, frustrated, because they are not able to attain success. Because they are not able to focus their mind.
But instead of asking, what should be done? As does Arjuna. So Arjuna simply says that the process is impractical. And Krishna encourages him and then tells him about Bhakti Yoga.
So here, Krishna has already spoken about Uddhava, about Bhakti Yoga. So here, Uddhava rather than just stopping with pointing out the impracticality of the process of Ashtamya Yoga, he goes forward and says, therefore the wise people practise Bhakti Yoga. And in that thread of verses, that's what happened in the previous four verses till now.
And in this verse and the next few verses, he glorifies the process of Bhakti. And in his glorification of the process of Bhakti, he says, what is the astonishing thing about Bhakti? Normally, when we talk about a process, any process we want to talk about, suppose there are the tuition classes. And the tuition classes say, the students who come into our class, the product is that they become toppers.
They become IIT toppers, AIR 1, AIR 2, AIR 3, whatever. So then, the students came in a little less prepared or unaware of what to do and they became toppers. So anything that is a process that is glorified by its product, what it brought about.
Similarly, Uddhava here glorifies the process of Bhakti by talking about what is the result. So, how amazing it is, he says, Oh Lord, you are the friend of all living beings. But when you descended as Ram, what was so astonishing was that the monkeys, they were walking next to you.
They were hugging you. They were having such close proximity to you, to that same supreme person for just getting the darshan of him. The great devtas earlier offered extensive prayers.
So, for getting the darshan of this Lord, devtas have offered great prayers and for touching his, putting their head on his lotus feet, they struggled. But the monkeys got intimate association. Such is the wonderful nature of the Lord.
And this became possible why? Because these monkeys were bhaktas. So, thus he glorifies the process of bhakti for its capacity to provide proximity to the Lord. What bhakti does is, it grants us proximity to Krishna.
So, proximity can be physical, it can be emotional, it can be spiritual. Physical proximity means that we go close to a person. Krishna Prabhupada doesn't stress physical proximity too much.
He says that you can have a fly or a mosquito sitting on the spiritual master's body. Actually, I don't know what is the spiritual master, but it is just an invitation to the spiritual master. So, physical proximity is, in that sense, not the most important form of proximity.
Emotional proximity means that, you know, sometimes say two people, two friends are very close to each other or say husband and wife are close to each other and some guest comes in the house and the husband just looks at the wife and points to the eyes. The wife understood, maybe I should bring some tea or some snacks or whatever. So, if one friend sees another friend and they just look at each other, maybe this is what we should be doing in this situation.
So, basically, when there is emotional proximity, people understand each other even through unspoken communication, just through some signals. So, now that is emotional proximity, where the thoughts and the emotions are more in agreement with each other. Beyond that, there is spiritual proximity.
Spiritual proximity means not only are the emotions in agreement, but there is agreement of spiritual purpose. Now, when we talk about emotional proximity, two people can be emotionally proximate, but they may not have any spiritual energy to their proximity. They may have a non-spiritual relationship also.
But spiritual means there is a commonality of purpose and that purpose is a centre of spiritual growth. Purpose is centred on service to Krishna, service to Supreme Lord. And that is the kind of proximity that the Vanaras had with Lord Rama.
Now, in the Ramayana, at one particular time, there are several times during the course of the Ramayana war that the Vanaras found themselves at their wits end. That means they still didn't know what to do. And most of the time it happened, the major threats that Ram's army faced was on three occasions.
Twice because of the attack of Indrajit, once because of the attack of Kumbhakar. Ramana came towards the attack and he attacked fiercely also. But Ram was there, he was sure to counter him.
So now at one particular point in the attack, Indrajit we know, he came several times and there were three major battles and the first two occasions Indrajit won. But Indrajit's defeat was caused by his overconfidence. The overconfidence was that when his enemy was down, he thought his enemy is out.
But, there was a boxing match going on. And one boxer, he used a knockdown punch. Now, a knockdown punch is not necessarily a knockout punch.
Knockdown means the person falls down. Knockout means the person becomes unconscious and is no longer able to fight. The person just knocks down.
And the other person has fallen down and it's almost as if they lost the match. And before, usually there is a referee who counts 1, 2, 3 or something like that. Depending on which kind of format it is, they count to 3 or they count to 5 or whatever.
And before that the opponent has to get up. Now, even before the opponent, even before the referee has counted, even before the match is actually won, suppose this person has delivered the knockdown punch, he starts going on a celebratory run. Yeah, I have won.
And then while he is celebrating, the opponent gets up and gives him a big punch which knocks him down. So, this is what happened with Indrajit. He had powerful weapons.
And he used those powerful weapons but he was overconfident that my weapons will have killed my opponent. So, his problem was that he said that underestimate yourself and overestimate your opposition. So, then we won't be caught off guard.
But quite often what Indrajit did was he overestimated himself and underestimated his opposition. Now, when Indrajit attacked the forces of Ram, on one particular occasion he used the Sarpastra, Nagastra, you see. And with that he bound all the Vanaras.
He bound many of the Vanaras and eventually he bound Ram and Lakshman also. And because of the bites of the snakes, the repeated bites, Ram and Lakshman fell unconscious. And it appeared as if they were dead.
And when it appeared as if they were dead, at that time Indrajit just celebrated and went back. And he told his father that your enemies are dead. And he said all the Vanaras are grieving.
He said let them grieve. Let the gravity and the reality of their defeat sink into them and after they are further demoralised if they still stay and have the guts to fight, I will wipe them out. So, he had actually not finished the fight.
But he thought he had already finished. So, actually because, now Indrajit was not a fool. He was over confident but he was not a fool.
He observed and he saw actually the Ram and Lakshman seemed to be entirely lifeless. Even the Vanaras thought that they are dead. Vivekananda pointed out, he said although they don't seem to be breathing, but their colour has not yet faded.
And so normally for any lesser people, lesser opponents the Sarpas would have just killed them immediately. But because the Ram and Lakshman were very powerful it knocked them so unconscious that most symptoms of life were not there. But life had not yet departed.
And they were still deliberating what to do. How to solve this situation? The Vanaras didn't know. Because the Sarpas had just bound them around and they were wishy-washy.
Nothing could be done. And suddenly they saw on the horizon a storm coming. What is this? Suddenly a storm has come.
Another big danger has come. And as the storm swept down on them they saw actually not a storm it was a giant bird. And that bird was swept down.
And that bird was actually an eagle. And as this eagle swooped down on the Vanaras initially the Vanaras didn't know what was the intention of this bird. But as it swooped down suddenly the snake saw this eagle has come.
And snakes live in mortal fear of eagles. So, as the eagle swept down on them, the snakes just unhooked themselves and fled away. And as this bird came and shaded Ram and Lakshman with its wings huge wings.
Then Ram and Lakshman came out as if from a swoon. And they got up and they seemed fully recovered. So, Ram looked at this giant bird and asked, who are you? So, now this boldness bird Garuda said, oh my lord I am your eternal servant.
Do you want to recognise me? So, actually Ramayana has a very intriguing revealing concealing of Ram's divinity. See, every book has a particular mood and a particular focus. And based on that mood everything in that book is organised.
So, the Ramayana begins with a question of, when I talk about the Ramayana, I am talking about Valmiki Ramayana. Later versions of Ramayana depict things differently. But in the Valmiki Ramayana the focus is, it begins with the question, the moola prashna of the Valmiki Ramayana is, who is an ideal person? What are the characteristics of an ideal person? That's what Valmiki Rishi asks Nandu.
And Nandu gives a brief description of the character and the activities of Lord Ram. And then Valmiki Rishi goes into a trance and gets a further revelation. And that revelation becomes expressed as the Ramayana.
So, throughout the Ramayana the focus is on depicting Ram as an ideal human being. And if he is depicted explicitly as God then the role of setting an example for everyone, that role becomes wrong. Oh, God can do anything.
I can't do it. So, what the Ramayana does is from his actions and from the context it is evident that Ram is God. Before the Ramayana launches itself there is a description that the Devatas have gone to Vishnu and they have asked that you please help us curb the terror and terrorising activities of Ramayana.
And Vishnu says I am descending in the dynasty of the Suryavamsa and the son of Dashrath. So, that is clear that the son of Dashrath is going to be Ram. But in the Valmiki Ramayana there is no place where there is an explicit statement of Ram's divinity.
That means in the Valmiki Ramayana no one offers prayers to Ram as if he is God. That is done in later versions of the Ramayana like Ramcharitmanas or other places. But the Valmiki Ramayana focusses on this theme of depicting Ram's ideal character.
And actually Ram's divinity in one sense is acknowledged by Ram only at the end of the war. At the end of the war when Ramayana is killed. At that time the Devatas come in the sky and they thank Ram.
So, at that time Indra is there, Brahma is there, Shiva is there and they all thank him. And while thanking him they say that you are the supreme Vishnu. You have descended to this earth to rid it of the scourge that was Ravana.
And now that you have accomplished your great mission we are grateful to you for that. So, at this particular point it is Garuda who declares Oh my lord, I am your eternal servant. And now Ram neither acknowledges it nor denies it.
Ram just says I am. And then Garuda goes on and says that now this is the depiction in the Valmiki Ramayana. So then what happens is Garuda says that Oh lord, the snakes are my mortal enemies and I was hoping to finish them but they fled.
Please give me your permission so that I will go in pursuit of them. Ram gives permission and Garuda goes in. And Garuda also says Oh lord, you are soon going to be successful in this battle with this demon Ramana.
So this is the lesser known incident. The more well known incident about Indrajith's attack is Indrajith attacks and Lakshman falls unconscious because of that fatal arrow. Lethal arrow.
And it would have been fatal if Bhanumana had not gone and got Umritsunji. But the point here is that in this battle we see even Garuda in this whole Ramayana Garuda approaches Ram in a very reverential way. All those rendering surveys he is aware that Ram is God.
Now as far as the Vanaras are concerned Ram has such a wonderful relationship with them that he lives with them. He lives in the same tent on the same floor and then when the Vanaras die in the war there is jarring contrast between the way Ramana deals with his martyrs and the way Ram deals. Ramana gives standing orders that at the evening when the sun sets the hostilities, the war would go on from morning to evening and night hostilities would stop.
That was the usual standard sometimes and there was a surprise attack made at night also. But Ramana gives standing instructions that at every sunset before the Rakshas retreat they should take all the bodies of the dead Rakshas and throw them into the ocean. And he said by throwing away the bodies when the Vanaras look they will see no enemies have been killed and they will become disheartened.
So Ramana was the propounder of the use and throw culture. Literally use and throw and not just things but people. No acknowledgement of their service no gratitude for their service no performing last rites for them nothing.
Just throw away their bodies. Whereas Ramana on the other hand he would stay awake late into the night and personally perform the last rites for whoever Vanaras died on that day. And later on after the war gets over the Devadas come and ask Ram that you know you have fulfilled a great mission for us.
So what blessing would you like us to give? So at that time Ram says that these Vanaras they have helped me so much in this war. But unfortunately because I am right now in exile I cannot give you anything. So therefore I request that the only blessing that I want is you bless these Vanaras.
Wherever they live let them have abundant food, abundant drink and let them never have to face starvation. And of course Ram further acknowledges them by taking them all through his Vishwapak Viman to Ayodhya and have them join the celebration of his coronation. But the point is that Ram does not ask anything for himself.
He asks for the Vanaras that let them be prosperous. So what happens even when the lord seems to be poverty stricken, he doesn't have anything at that time he is concerned about those who are serving him. In fact when Hanuman comes back from Lanka with the news that Sita has been found at that time Ram says that you have given me such a great heroic service where the news about Sita's whereabouts you have given me something so great.
I will offer something in return to you. What can I offer? Unfortunately I have nothing to offer. And therefore I will offer you my embrace.
And Lord Ram comes out and embraces Hanuman offering himself. The commentators over here in his commentary explains that actually there are many valuable things in this world but the most valuable thing is the lord's own form. He is called as Bhushanam Bhushkandaha that he is called the ornament of all ornaments.
It is not that the ornaments glorify him but ornaments don't beautify him. He beautifies the ornaments. And it is that lord who is all attractive whose form is the greatest treasure.
So when the lord offers Hanuman an embrace it is not just an embrace that he is offering. He is offering his own form to Hanuman and at that time Hanuman is always devoted to Ram but through that embrace Ram becomes permanently placed and imprinted in the heart of Ram. And later on we have a famous pastime where Hanuman rips open his chest and Ram is So there is in the Gopal Champu which is a book talking about Krishna Yuga but an analytical book which resolves many unanswered questions that might come when we read the 10th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam there he talks about, G. Goswami talks about two kinds of remembrance of the lord.
One is Smriti and the other is Kurti. Smriti is conscious recollection. So I decide, I want to think about Krishna.
I think about Krishna's Kali Yada Mani and I sit and concentrate and try to recollect. Whereas, Kurti is spontaneous recollection. That means without any effort on our part just the memory starts streaming.
So for example say if we have a place where we used to go, maybe a grandparent's house or somewhere which we used to go in our childhood and we had happy memories of playing there going around in the garden, singing in the playing in the river or whatever. Now, we may think, oh I had such nice times in my childhood and then I try to recollect that. But suppose now we go to some place and that place is very similar to the place which we had in childhood and suddenly the memories arise.
So, Smriti is actually at a higher level of spiritual advancement. For us what we try to do is Smriti. We try to consciously recollect.
But for advanced devotees then Smriti. Spontaneously the memories arrive and they overwhelm. So for Hanuman, he was always doing Smriti of the lord.
But especially after this blessing, this embrace that he got, what he did was not just Smriti. It overwhelmed with remembrance of the lord. So, what the lord offered, here it is said that, oh you offered physical proximity to those to the divanaras, something which the devatas did not have.
That is demonstrated here. Now, in one case it was Garuda who came and helped Ram. In another case it was Hanuman himself who came and brought the herbs, healing herbs.
So, either way the point which is important here is that the lord becomes accessible through devotional service. Devatas are also bhaktas. But they are not bhaktas at the same level actually as the vanaras are.
The devatas are worshipping through sense of distance, reverential mode of worship. Whereas the vanaras offer intimate practical service. And for us as sadhakas the thought of proximity of the lord may seem very remote.
The fact is Krishna is very close to us. In fact, he is closer than the closest person can ever be close. Even if a person lovingly and tightly embraces us, that person cannot come as close to us as Krishna is always.
Krishna is right next to us in our own heart. And his proximity is not just in terms of physical location but it is also in terms of spiritual affection. No one can love us more than Krishna.
No one can desire our good more than Krishna. And no one strives for our good more than Krishna. And in bhakti yoga we, the more we focus on the glory of Krishna the more we appreciate the glory of bhakti.
And the more we become inspired to practise the pursuit of such is the wonderful lord that I am striving to serve. And there are various different ways in which one can focus the mind. So ashram yoga is the context of this.
Why is he glorifying bhakti like this? The context of Uddhava's speech is that he is saying by the process of ashram yoga concentrating the mind is very difficult and people become disheartened. Yogis become disheartened. He says yes there are various ways of concentrating the mind but the maximum concentration comes through affection.
When we love something at that time we naturally get absorbed in it. Some people are cricket fans and at that time a cricket match is going on and at that time they just don't want to tolerate any interference they just want to watch the cricket match and if anybody comes in the way they say get out of the way I don't want to miss even one moment of the action so it's not that at that time they have to concentrate their natural focus lies in affection. Now we may say cricket match is sense gratification and movie is sense gratification.
That is fine the important point is there is absorption so that absorption comes when they are attracted to something. When there is attraction for something the absorption comes automatically and the same principle of attraction which we right now have for certain material things we can have that for Krishna also and that is what the process of bhakti yoga does. Bhakti yoga is not just a process of chanting some mantras or going to temple for darshan or things like that all that is fine.
That is very important but what bhakti does internally is redirect our attraction from this world towards Krishna the process of bhakti yoga as we keep practising bhakti we get more and more realisations of Krishna's all attractiveness and as his all attractiveness becomes more and more revealed then our attraction to him increases see normally people talk about in mental world they talk about falling in love so you know the idea of falling in love it is like you are walking along into the ditch and you fall into the ditch so the point I am making is falling is not necessarily negative connotation but point is falling is it is something which happens to you so people say oh I saw someone and they saw me and then we touched the electricity that went through our body and we fell in love so people talk about emotions as something that just happens to us now the point is that actually there may be some attraction that happens at first sight people talk about love at first sight well whether there is love at first sight or not the relationship depends not on whether there is love at first sight but it depends on what happens after many sights so actually relationships depend on commitment there may be some infatuation, there may be some affection it is possible that they are getting a lasting relationship but that lasting relationship does not depend on what emotion that was there initially it depends on the kind of commitment that one is ready to invest in the relationship every relationship essentially centres on commitment so sometimes people ask oh why is Indian culture so primitive there are arranged marriages, there are no love marriages no, the point is this language this dichotomy itself is wrong when they say there are arranged marriages and no love marriages that means that they are assuming that in arranged marriages there is no love but if somebody thinks the same thing why do we have not love marriages and arranged marriages why do we have infatuation marriages and arranged marriages now the words itself are made in such a way that the debate is already settled before the debate started so it's biassed language but the fact is whether the marriages are real or whether it is because of initial one's own attraction to someone the relationship's longevity will depend on the commitment and for many people in traditional cultures not just in India, in many other parts of the world also traditionally when a relationship was formed with the blessings of the elders with the thoughtful guidance of the elders they felt that that arrangement and blessings was the spur for the commitment of the relationship and the relationship would go on so the point I am making this is not going to be a discussion on marriage but the point is that emotions are not just something that happens to us they may happen sometimes to us but relationships depend not just on emotions that happen relationships depend on conscious commitment that's why many times when people have love marriages they don't follow that initial attraction whatever might be there with a commitment then at one time people say I can't live without you and a few months later they say I can't live with you so it just goes to the other extreme entirely why? because there is attachment and there is opposite of attachment there is aversion, there is frustration so bhakti is neither about attachment it is neither about detachment it is about commitment so when we talk about the process of bhakti there are emotions and when emotions come it's wonderful but just as in any relationship in the world the longevity, the stability of the relationship depends on the commitment that people bring to the relationship similarly in our relationship with Krishna the longevity and stability of our relationship with Krishna will depend on the commitment that we bring to the process of bhakti and that commitment comes not just when we just feel good when I take darshan I feel so good, when I chant and dance with people I feel good all that is very good if you feel good but the commitment comes when you understand the glory of Krishna and that understanding comes by studying scripture by understanding the wonderful pastimes of Krishna and appreciating how the Supreme Lord who doesn't just Krishna or even Ram is not a God who delights in his Godhood I am God all of you can't go wrong with me no, Krishna delights in the reciprocation of love so he values the reciprocation of affection more than the acknowledgement of his Godhood and that's what Ram demonstrates he doesn't go about telling everyone I am God no, he just reciprocates and whoever wants to serve him he accepts them and he embraces them so actually speaking the Vanaras from the perspective of the three moons monkeys are actually considered the moon but these monkeys are revealed to be higher than the devatas why because these monkeys had bhakti and bhakti elevated them to a level higher than those who were also from the point of material piety at a very high position and this process of bhakti this transformational potency of bhakti this experiential capacity of bhakti the capacity of bhakti to give us experience of Krishna that is a great inspiration for sadhakas in absorbing themselves in Krishna and thereby in increasing the attraction towards Krishna I'll conclude with one point there is absorption that comes from attraction when we are attracted to something we naturally get absorbed in it but there is another absorption that can come from conviction so I may not be attracted to something right now but if I am convinced this is important I need to do it suppose I like a particular subject which I am studying I like to read a particular book I just get absorbed in it naturally but there may be some subject which I don't like so much but if I know who is the exam I have to study that time also I get absorbed so like that right now for us we do not have so much attraction to Krishna and so bhakti will eventually offer us absorption in Krishna that comes from attraction that is sphurti but at our stage when we hear the glories of Krishna that will give us the conviction which can help in absorption and the more we absorb ourselves in Krishna the more there is a revelation of his beauty of his glory of his monsi and then there is further attraction and this way bhakti propels us forward on the path towards him in a way that is fruitful and joyful fruitful because we experience Krishna joyful because as we experience Krishna more and more we get connected with the one who is the source of all happiness so I will summarise I started here by talking about the Uddhavita and Bhagavata similarities in terms of how both involve similar questions but the Uddhavita goes more into details and in the Uddhavita here Uddhava is speaking and he says it is very difficult to fix the mind but bhakti one can fix the mind and therefore wise people practise bhakti and the glory of bhakti is that it delivers proximity to the Lord we discussed physical, emotional and spiritual proximity and in that connection we discussed Ramlila and primarily we discussed how Ram does not directly portrayed as divine but in his pastimes he appears to be like a human being so as to increase the intimacy of the affection so in the Vanarasi Ram has fallen he had an anxiety, if they think that he is God, he is immortal, he can never die they will not have the emotions, actually Ram has fallen and Garuda comes along and helps so Indrajeet, he had power but his weakness was his over confidence and he mistook to be the knock down blow to be the knock out blow and eventually he lost because of that and we discussed how Hanuman, Lord Ram embraced him and offered himself he is the greatest treasure in the world to Hanuman and then that's how the Lord became eternally imprinted within his heart, not just as Spruti but as Spruti and now in the practise of Bhakti we discussed that the highest absorption Krishna comes through attraction, where attraction or affection is not just something that happens people talk of falling in love but it is not love is not just something that happens, it may happen but the relationship will depend on how committed one is it will not depend on love at first sight but on what happens after many fights so the commitment is more important than either the extreme attachment or aversion or detachment commitment is what makes relations gives longevity and stability to relationships and that applies to our relationship with Krishna also and when we practise Bhakti, we may not have absorption based on attraction right now but if we hear about the love of Krishna, then that gives us conviction Krishna is such a wonderful, wonderful all attractive Lord and that conviction becomes the most, becomes the motivator for an absorption and when that absorption is revealed and then the attractiveness becomes apparent to us and then the absorption comes through attraction and that's how Bhakti becomes becomes joyfully performed. Thank you very much Are there any questions? I have studied in detail there are 14 planets how we can connect these these are vertically inclined planets and they will do it so if we have 14 line resistance then which are vertically inclined how do we reconcile that with the idea of either heliocentric or geocentric models of the solar system or the universe at large see firstly when you talk about the 14 line resistance we shouldn't think of that simply in terms of physical space why not? because the upper planet Swarga Loka and others they are highly magnetic system they are made of subtler elements they are not situated in space as we conceive it they are situated in entirely different level of existence to give a simpler illustration of this India and Australia Australia and America are somewhat anti-polar or say two countries which are at the opposite parts of the globe so Australia and India also we can roughly say for argument sake now people in Australia say that heaven is up people in India say heaven is up but the earth is round which is up both places heaven is up but the up is two opposite directions so when we talk about the up heaven being up it is not just up in a literal physical sense the heaven is up in a karmic sense that there are various lokas various magnetic systems they are arranged in a hierarchy in terms of the karmic qualifications of the residents over there those who have done greater punya they are in the higher magnetic system those who have done lesser punya they are in the lower magnetic system depending on the kind of pious or impious actions that they have done and for the sake of depiction just like the earth is round but on an atlas the earth is depicted in a straight or on a map it is depicted in a 2D plane where we see it linear so like that for the sake of depiction when we talk about the 40 planetary systems in terms of vertical continuity in space but that vertical dimension is not a physical distance some physical distance may be given for a sense of estimate but the whole point is that everything in this cosmos especially in terms of the higher planetary systems it is subtle, it is not made of gross matter at all so we cannot apply gross dimensions to this whole discussion so without getting into the technicalities of 40 planetary systems in the morning I talked about Ayurveda and allopathy, they are two different ways of looking and we can't just mishmash concepts from here and put them there we have to see what the concept means within its own conceptual model so instead of getting into the 40 planetary systems are not in terms of physical space as we understand it in modern cosmology but coming to the question about geocentric and biocentric the point is that especially after Einstein talked about the relativity of motion and before that also Tycho Brahe and other cosmologists have pointed out that actually the same explanation more or less for all the cosmic phenomena can be given based on whether we consider the solar system to be geocentric or heliocentric see motion in that sense is relative yes I said in the past also people who had a geocentric model they also were able to predict eclipses I am not going into technicalities over here but they were also able to predict eclipses and other cosmic events so now the heliocentric model is in some ways simpler and there is a principle in science called Occam's razor where there is a simple principle simple explanation should be accepted but that does not mean that the alternative explanation is necessarily wrong, it is simply an operational model that a simpler explanation should be accepted so the point is that within modern cosmology whatever explanations we can get using the heliocentric whatever explanation for various cosmic phenomena we can get using the heliocentric we can also get using the geocentric model because what we know for sure is that there is relative motion but for essence in terms of mathematics it does not matter whether it is this or it is that whatever predictions that come from the logic they can come from either models and they can come with a fairly good level of accuracy so there is no need to when we study the cosmos as is explained in the Bhagavatam the trap is to get caught in in a literal comparison of this with that so in fact in Bhaktivinoda Thakur in an essay called the Bhagavatic theology he says that in one sense the 10th canto cosmology is meant to protect the 10th canto revelation of Krishna from doubting souls so the 5th canto cosmology and all its complications if people just get too caught in that they won't move forward towards the essence of the 10th canto so the point is that we recognise that the Bhagavatam is talking about cosmology from a different perspective and there are different levels of perception and Bhagavatam's cosmic descriptions are all from a different type of reference that's why there is no need to mishmash points from this model and impose them on some other model that only leads to confusion and that leads to a complexity where complexity is not necessary they are two different models and they work in their own ways so if somebody is more interested in the study of the Bhagavatam's cosmology one of the most prominent devotee scientists was Sardar Pujya Prabhu he has written a book called Vedic Cosmography which has a very reasonable explanation of the concepts of the Vedic cosmos of the Bhagavatam's cosmos from the modern perspective and then he has written a book called Mysteries of the Sacred Universe which is a fairly complicated book where he describes how the Bhagavatam is using a complicated ensemble conceptual model for explaining things so one who is especially interested can study those books if required but the point is don't just crisscross things from here and there and try to correlate because they are two different ways of looking at the cosmos any other questions? so if we say that after reading scripture our conviction, our commitment increases but what to do if after reading that is not happening yes then we have to actually see introspect and find out how we are studying scripture just like when I eat food, the natural result of eating food is that I get energy but sometimes it may happen that there may be some germs in the stomach because I eat the food and the germs eat all the food and I don't get any energy or sometimes I may be eating certain kinds of food which are not really digestible for me so they don't give me the energy so we have to observe what exactly are we doing so reading is not a stereotype activity now some devotees may read a lot and they feel oh I read 50 pages, I read 100 pages and then I have to do this, I am reading Bhagavatam some other devotees may spend one hour reading just 3-4 pages they go deep and they analyse we read something and then we write something based on it or we read one concept and then we try to understand this concept maybe I read some other purport somewhere else or maybe some other articles based on that and I try to not just complete the pages just to keep a number count of how many pages I have read but we actually move towards comprehending what is taking place so different people have different kinds of intellectual needs so we have to find out what nourishes us so in the early stages of our life quite often we find that our inspiration, comprehension and conviction all come much more through hearing than through reading. Reading we do as a service to Srila Prabhupada and to the Shastra but we see the credulence of Shastra to our lives primarily through classes so if we find that our Shastric study is not so nourishing then we can try to more correlate our Shastric study with our hearing that means if you are reading Bhagavad Gita find out if somebody has there are many devotees who have done this, find out some classes on that same section of the Bhagavad Gita so if you are reading one chapter, no need to just rush to that chapter and go to that chapter read the chapter and hear some classes on that chapter and then hear the class and then again come back and read and then you get much more comprehension so harmonising our reading and hearing is a very powerful way of increasing our absorption in those to become synergistic we hear and then we read, oh I didn't notice this when I was reading this and then I read that, oh when I hear this all now this becomes clear, this is a nice way of experience so that way we can find out what are the ways in which we can make our scriptural study more nourishing for ourselves and we also have to know that not everybody will find the same things equally inspiring so sometimes for some devotees, scriptural study may not be their primary source of inspiration, it may be certain services certain other limbs of Bhakti which may inspire so scriptural study is one limb of Bhakti which is very important but it is not the only activity in Bhakti so when we harmonise our scriptural study with other activities in Bhakti, so some devotees may find practical services more inspiring, so then what we could do is service that we find inspiring, we read something in scripture which is connected with that so for example if we like to read books, then we read something about preaching, about distribution and that way we try to bring the sense of connectedness between what attracts us and what we are studying and that way we can make our scriptural study more nourishing did that answer your question? any other questions? many times when the question comes from devotee side that's why in guiding devotees they come with different problems so one solution which is very common is to take shelter of Krishna and especially there are sometimes devotees who may have some specific problems so they may try to take shelter of some other soul, like for example some other demigod, for example some devotee comes and says Prabhu, there is some Graha Shastri or how, so just for this making things peaceful, I am just going to that demigod and making things peaceful, ultimately I am Krishna's devotee only and just like I have a fever, I am going to doctor and saying it's not that I am doctor's devotee, I am devotee of Krishna only so then when we give such help and when we say that ok you can go to that demigod but I am chanting also then it appears like we are violating the principles so in our course of preaching and helping devotees how we can reconcile just using that it will become too strict on Krishna Krishna that they don't keep them practical so if some devotee while practising bhakti feels that for a specific problem, one should worship a devata is that dilution of the purity of bhakti the most important thing in bhakti is steady practise now steady, sustainable practise that can be done right now that is what is most important the level at which practise is done that will vary according to time, place and circumstance so not everybody can always practise at the same level just like if I am going to drive from here to Pune if the traffic is high, I will have to drive slowly if the traffic is low, I will drive faster so the point is that for bhaktas, Krishna is the source of everything and we should take Chandra Krishna on this at the same time for some devotees based on maybe their past upbringing or their present association their relatives or whatever they feel I have got this problem, it is not getting solved and I wish to worship some devata so we can connect them with some devotee astrologers now in the Gopal Bhatt Goswami and his writings and Tapsic Manachar is also there after they have explained how each of the devatas has a particular form of Vishnu who supervises that particular devata so for example if there is a particular ritual that is described to Apis Saturn then what the Vaishnava what the Vaishnava rituals do is instead of appeasing Saturn we focus on appeasing the form of Vishnu who is supervising Saturn so for example if somebody has obstacles instead of worshipping Ganesh, one can worship Narasimha Ganesha they said is a paad paankarya so he has offered his tasks to Narasimha so we can offer prayers to Narasimha there can be customised prayers which can be told there is Narasimha Kavacha and some special kind of prayers that are there so if the standard process of bhakti doesn't work in some situations then the customised process of bhakti meant to deal with specific issues that can be rectified and if that doesn't work and the problem is serious we don't have to come in between that devotee and whatever salvation they feel it goes for so in certain situations devotees feel the need to go to some other source of shelter and take that shelter the philosophical understanding is clear and for specific purpose it's not necessary it's not recommended but it did not be made into a big issue because in life phases come and phases go so what comes in phases it is ok one goes to a particular phase at a particular time there are small issues which need not be made into very big issues so if the devotee is overall philosophically clear sometimes we go to a very great extreme in avoiding the worship of the devotees it's almost as if we treat demigod worship as if it is a sinful activity it's a ludicrous misrepresentation actually it's a virtuous activity it's a pious activity, it will not be an activity of pure devotional service but still it is a dharmic activity so Bhaktivinoda Thakur in Chaitanya Chit Shyamra explains that there are different kinds of celebrations or festivals that Vaishnavas can participate in one is what Vaishnavas delight in is Bhakti festival centred on Krishna but he says there can be different kinds of festivals so he talks about two other kinds there can be for social purposes a devotee can participate in demigod worship but still it's also so in the Bhagavatam he describes that when Maharaj Pruthu in 4th Canto when he performed yajnas externally in the yajnas there is devatas were being offered avatis but internally he was meditating on Vishnu so he did those rituals and third he says also is that there can be social festivals which are not connected with dharmas but they are connected with some social cause say in today's case if somebody is in school or in a college or in an office and they are celebrating independence day it's not that we have to avoid celebrating we may not go out of our way and organise and sponsor and things like that but if it's a part of something we can celebrate there is no need to make this into a very big issue as long as the philosophical understanding is clear as long as the determination to practise bhakti is steady then occasionally if something is required for some specific purpose that is ok we don't advocate it but we don't have to make a campaign against it something which is required do that and move forward in the process of it don't make that devotee feel guilty for doing something which is actually dharmic just because it is not pure devotional service that doesn't mean that it is sinful it's a contamination it's a lower level of devotion but we cannot artificially expect everyone to always stay at the highest level of devotion so we ensure that whatever happens devotees feel connected it is not that because a devotee feels that I need to go and worship some devata and because of that everybody else is going to look down at me so I cannot come in the devotional service now that I have worshipped a devata I am going to be treated as untouchable in devotional service it should never be like that so we should be clear in our exploration about the standard process of bhakti about the clear understanding of the rules but for practical circumstances things can vary we don't have to make that into a huge issue one question what can we do to overcome the tendency to overanalyze things first we need the association of those who like to analyse because if we have a tendency to overanalyze then we have to that means we have a tendency to analyse and if we associate with those who just don't like analysis then we will feel thwarted so it is our intellectual need and we need to associate with devotees who like analysis there are different kinds of devotees and they have different kinds of focus in studying shastra so both Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Rupa Goswami explained that we need not just the association of devotees but we need the association of like minded devotees those who think similarly those who have similar aspirations in bhakti so if we have intellectual needs we need to find out devotees who are also intellectually orientated and associate with them and that place we will get analysis and that will nourish us now it is possible that in some cases we may be going into an overanalytic mood and if that happens if overall our need for analysis is nourished then neglecting certain things will not feel like suppression we do that all the time even when we are studying academic subjects it is not that we go deep into every single point some things which are important we go into some things which we feel really interested we go into but other things we just pass over so like that some things we have to pass over that is fine and even the things which we have to pass over if the same thoughts, same questions keep coming again and again at that time we can keep that questions in a list ready and we can contact some devotees whenever they are available who are specialists in these subjects it is not that all senior devotees know everything as we advance in bhakti we understand that the knowledge of the philosophy itself is a vast ocean and it is not just a vast ocean you could say that there are many vast oceans some devotees may specialise in Gauri Vaishno some devotees specialise in Vedic knowledge some devotees may specialise in say some devotees specialise in Bhagavatam so there are different devotees who specialise in different things so if we find out that we have a particular kind of interest and that is what kind of thoughts keep coming we associate with those devotees and learn from them we may do some service specifically for them and get connected with them and that way they will also give us some time and answer questions so it is not that the tendency to overanalyze has to be suppressed but we have to be realistic some questions we just can't go around in life seeking answers to every single thing that we find so if some things keep persistently coming we should find a way to get some level of satisfaction answers so humility in the intellectual realm means the willingness to acknowledge that I don't know and that I can't know there are certain things that I am just not able to understand it is not necessary that just by analysing a lot certain things will become clear to me it may be purification, it may require mercy it may require some higher revelation to come also so if something persistently troubles us we can invest some amount of time in trying to find out the answers and trying to associate with those who will give the answers but overall if we find ourselves getting caught in details that are not important repeatedly then we have to have a sense of perspective and by cultivating intellectual humility we can also move forward and stay focused on the important things so there are heart doubts and there are brain doubts heart doubts means the doubts and questions about the core principles of bhakti is Chandigarh Krishna really the yoga dharma is Krishna really God is bhakti yoga the best process these are very fundamental doubts but some questions about brain, about what kind of cosmology some questions about samkhya these are brain doubts, they are not really immediately relevant to our practise of bhakti so brain doubts we can keep in the state of state of suspended judgement now I can say that at my level of understanding I don't know how to accept this so I am not going to reject it, I can't accept it but I am not going to reject it I will just keep it in the state of suspended judgement I will move forward in my bhakti and over a period of time I will understand it in due course and heart doubts we should spend our time in analysing and associating with those who can help in analysis and getting clear on this that way by having a proper perspective and proper association we can deal with the tendency of analysing without getting into the trap of core analysing thank you very much I have heard there are different kinds of Gita like in Skanda Purana there is Guru Gita which is told by Lord Shiva to Parvati in Ganesh Gita there is one Gita which is told by Lord Ram to Ayodhya Vasis before departing so there are many other Gitas which are part of Ghoita and Gavita, so what about them not everything that is there within the broad Indian tradition is necessarily of the same level of authenticity Madhvacharya talks about Shastra Taradamya Taradamya means hierarchy or classification so for example in Siddhanta Darpan Baldev Devashree has written a book called Siddhanta Darpan in there he states that certain books like Devi Bhagwat that is not an authentic Purana in the category of Vedic Puranas sometimes followers of Devi Bhagwat claim that is the real Bhagwat and what the Vaishnava Bhagwat is not the Bhagwat but that is clearly not true because the Devi Bhagwat is a later book the Devi Bhagwat is aware of the Srimad Bhagwat and it is claimed that that is not the real Bhagwat so it is basically a book later written by certain people who are the worshippers of the particular Devatas and they are trying to ascribe it to or sages and that way they try to gain authenticity for their traditions so many of the later Gitas and the less known Gitas they try to follow the pattern of the Bhagwat Gita and try to glorify the particular Devata in a way similar to how Krishna is glorified so there are certain truths certain statements in those Gitas which if they are harmonisable with the Siddhanta that is given in the scriptures then they are acceptable but if they contain certain things which are not harmonisable with the Siddhanta then they have to be considered contextually given for particular people but they are not necessarily part of the Vedic canon so we have to look at each of those books which are called as the Gita and we have to see whether they are actually a part of the scriptural canon and for that we may have to look at the broader traditions and what they talk about so the content of the books as well as the explanation about the authenticity of those books and explaining the broader traditions that will help us to understand the level of authenticity of the content in the various books that are also considered to be the Gitas so thank you very much mantra recitation.