​Diwali meditation on Science and spirituality

​Congregation program at Cambridge, UK

Hare Krishna! So, I thank all of you for coming here today evening. It's Diwali festival starting, so we have many other things to do. So, thank you for coming.

And as I said, I'll speak something on science and spirituality. And I'll speak about this topic from a way which can practically relate with us. We are all on a human journey, where we want to become better.

Become better internally, become better externally, become better mothers, better fathers, better students, better professionals. And whatever resources can help us to improve, we can be open to them. So, science and spirituality, keep it here if you want, you don't want to hold it all the time.

So, science and spirituality relate most relevantly for us in the field of the mind. In the field of the mind means that, I'll talk about this in three different ways, that science is basically a tool for acquiring knowledge. And there is the, sometimes science and religion are thought to be in conflict.

But actually the conflict is not between science and religion. The conflict is between a materialistic worldview and a spiritual worldview. So, in the material worldview, the idea is matter is all that exists.

In a spiritual worldview, there is understanding that something more than matter exists. So, now how does it really matter to us if something more than matter exists or not? So, basically we can consider the area of the mind and how it influences us physically. There is a whole brand of mental health issues, which are called as psychosomatic diseases.

Now, psychosomatic means mind, soma means body. So, psychosomatic diseases means diseases that originate in the mind, but then they manifest in the body. That means, if a person is habitually worried about things, then that worry, or if a person is habitually resentful of things, that resentment over a period of time starts causing negative symptoms of ill health manifesting in the body.

So, the mind is literally affecting the body. The mind is something which we always talk about. But science, if we look at it from the perspective of materialistic science, has no explanation for what the mind is.

Because there is the brain, which is where materialistic science holds consciousness is. But what exactly is the mind? But the fact is that somehow the thoughts, our thoughts, the pattern of our thoughts, they affect how we live. So, going to the other side, I will come back to psychosomatic diseases a little later.

There is another phenomenon called the placebo effect. Now, placebo effect is, normally when a patient goes to a doctor, the doctor gives medicines. But there are some patients who are hypochondriacs.

Hypochondriacs are people who pretend to be sick. In order to get attention from others. If you are sick, people will come and ask, how are you, meet you, talk with you, be gentle to you.

So, people want that attention, they pretend to be sick. So, sometimes this can go to a level of extreme problems also. There is a particular disease called as delusional parasitosis.

What happens in that? That people start getting the delusion, this is a real life story from medical literature, that once there was a woman, she had this feeling that there is a frog inside my stomach. And she would go to a doctor and say, doctor, there is a frog inside my stomach, do something about it, please. And the doctor said, no, a frog cannot be there inside your stomach.

If a frog would be there, it would either be dead or you would be dead. You just cannot survive for a very long time. Oh no, I can feel the frog inside my stomach.

So, then the doctor would do some sonography, CT scan and whatever. And still they would not find anything, they would tell her, nothing is there, don't worry. No, she would go from one doctor, you don't understand, she would go to a second doctor, third doctor.

She went to six doctors like that. And she told her story, I have gone to five doctors before. And she was desperate, please believe me.

Doctor realised that the problem is not physical, it's mental. So, he thought of an idea. And he told her that, let me do a test.

And he found a test and he told her, yeah, actually it's true. We have got a frog inside your stomach and we have to do surgery to remove it. Doctor, please do the surgery immediately.

She said, yes, yes, we will do it soon. And then he gave her anaesthesia. And during the anaesthesia, there was a small incision he did on the stomach.

And then he told a nurse to go to a nearby pond and get a frog from there. And when she came back to consciousness, he told her, just see, this was a frog inside your stomach. You have got it out now.

Oh, doctor, thank you so much. You saved my life. Thank you for believing.

Thank you for relieving me from this frog. Thank you. She was so profusely grateful.

And she went away happily. And everybody thought it was a very clever solution to the problem. The doctor, the nurses, the medical staff.

Then after about 10 days, the lady came back. And she was frantic again. She said, doctor, doctor, that frog had babies.

And they are still there inside. Please remove them. So when the mind catches a certain belief, then there is a collision of feelings or perceptions of the mind, the imaginations of the mind with facts.

Although normally facts should win. And eventually in terms of factual reality, facts win. But in terms of subjective beliefs, the facts often lose.

That is the power of the mind. This is, of course, where a person… This is an irrational belief. Not many people believe like this.

Yes, that's true. Not many people believe like this. But this extreme example illustrates the point that not only does the mind shape our beliefs, but it has enormous power to shape our beliefs, even in the opposition of facts.

And this can also affect our health. So in placebo effect, a person who is just imagining that I have got a disease, they say they are hypochondriac. That's how this was earlier used.

So the doctor, they feel they are sick. And the doctor says, you are not sick at all. Now, doctor, I am sick.

Give me some medicine. So the doctors are… Why put chemicals into their body? So doctors just give them sugar pills. And the sugar pills, they told, this is medicine for you.

And the patient would think, oh, I have got medicines. And the patient would get cured by that. Now, after some time, actually there was no disease and there was no medicine.

But the patient would just feel better because the problem here was simply mental. And there was just a mental pacification by giving sugar pills. But later, doctors decided to do some experiments.

They tried that a patient was really sick. Say somebody has fever or somebody has some other problems. At that time, if the doctor gives them sugar pills instead of actual medicine, and they found that actually just by giving sugar pills, patients got cured.

So now, how did this happen? So in America, there is a history that there was, at one time, there was a company, there was a drug company which launched a very powerful drug which was supposed to cure obesity. There are many times this sort of drugs come up. And there was one woman who was made like the poster boy or the poster woman for that particular drug.

And she took that drug and she lost a lot of weight. And thousands of people started taking that drug after that. And then, after about three years, it was revealed that that woman, she was a part of that experiment, but she was not given the real drug.

She was given the placebo. Just by placebo, she had lost weight. Now, what is happening in the case of placebo? There is a well-known doctor who commented on this.

He said, most of the job of a doctor is to entertain the patient while the body's healing system heals itself. The body has an innate healing system and it is to be activated. So the mind comes in the way of the body healing itself.

And if you just get the mind out of the way, then the body heals itself. Now, of course, placebo effect is not omnipotent. If somebody has got a fracture, it is not that placebo is going to cure that.

If somebody has got cancer, placebo will not cure that. There are serious diseases which will not be cured, but still a significant number of diseases can be treated by placebo effect. So again, from a positive perspective or a negative perspective, we see that there is the mind which affects the body.

So now, whether we use the word mind or whatever word we use, we can understand here that there is something more than the body. In terms of physical effects on the body, there is something more happening. What does something more happening mean? That actually, if I see that I have a weighing scale and there is 10 kg weight here, 10 kg weight here, the two weights are equal.

Suddenly, one of the weights starts going down. Suppose I am on this side and there is a non-transparent curtain in between. So now, I cannot know what is there on the other side.

I cannot see that. But all that I can know is that there must be something heavier over here. If there had not been something heavier, this side would not have gone up.

So like that, when it comes to what exists beyond the body, we do not know, at least we do not know in the sense of, we cannot know by the methods of empirical observation what exists. Because ultimately, we can observe only the physical body and we can observe only the physical things which are perceivable to our senses. So, what we do know, just as when we see the weighing scale going down, that means there must be heavier weight.

Similarly, here what we can know is if the body is being affected by something other than the body. That means normally a patient is sick and then, so if we consider, say, a fever or a stomach upset or some other problem which can be explained in terms of the disturbance of the physiological functioning of the body. Certain chemicals have gone down, certain biochemicals have come up, the temperature has increased or whatever.

So, there is a physiological change which is clearly there. And normally, to correct that physiological change, we need to do something else. So, for example, somebody has got malaria, then the physiological change in the body is that some microbes have come into the body.

Then to correct that, what we do is we send some antibiotics which kill those bacteria. So, that means when the body's biochemical balance is upset, then we insert some other chemicals to restore its balance. But in the case of diseases which are cured by placebo effect, what we see is that the body's biochemical balance which was disturbed by a biochemical cause, that was rectified without any biochemical change being brought into the body.

That means there is something other than the biochemical which is affecting the biochemical. And it is affecting it quite powerfully. So, it's like, okay, I see this weighing machine and on this side of the weighing machine I don't see anything.

But still it's going down. It's going down. Then I'm wondering something.

Is there some object which is non-light reflecting? Or is there something going on over here? Or is there something, some magnetic force is there below because of which the weighing machine is being pulled down? Something is happening which I don't understand. So, to understand this, what we know is that there is some, what science can tell us is that there is something beyond matter, something beyond physical substance, which science processes, which is affecting how we, what happens to us. Scientists have mapped the brain functioning quite a lot in the recent years.

Neuroscience is rapidly developing. And as neuroscience develops, we understand more and more about which areas of the brain correspond with which kind of functions in the body. So, for example, if I raise my hand, the motor nervous system gets activated.

Or if I speak, another part of the brain gets activated. So, motor nervous system gets activated and then the frontal lobe of the brain gets activated. Like that, different parts of the brain get activated when we do different functions.

So now, I am taking this discussion to another point. First I said is that there is something beyond physical matter or physical substance which exists. Now, how do I make sense of it? What may it be? Say now, right now, a parrot moves in front.

Say a parrot enters this room. This flies, flies by, making a chirping sound. So now, when the parrot flies by, let's stick to just, let's put a sound aside for the moment.

Let's consider simply its motion. Now scientists have found that actually when we see a parrot flying by, there are three distinct visual stimuli that we get. There is a colour.

Oh, it's a nice green colour. Second is shape. There can be many green objects.

It's not an aeroplane, maybe a toy aeroplane or something like that. It's a parrot. So there is the colour, there is the shape and then there is the motion.

Oh, it's flying upwards. Now, these three sets of information, they all enter into the eyes. Now, after they enter into the eyes, they are converted into signals which are transmitted through the optic nerve to the brain.

Now, when they go to the brain, at that time, actually there are three distinct areas of the brain which process motion, which process colour and which process shape. Now, these three areas are, you could say three different areas of the brain. Now, where is this information integrated? Where is this information integrated? Now, if you add the birds chirping, that would mean the fourth set of information.

That's completely different. It doesn't enter through the eyes, it enters through the ears and that also goes to another part of the brain. Now, where does the integration take place? There is no one part of the brain which is actually connected to every other part of the brain.

The brain has neurones and there are dendrites which come out of the brain and there are synapses which connect different brain cells. There is no one part of the brain which is connected to every other part of the brain. It's just not physically possible.

So now, if this integration does not happen perfectly, what would happen if sometimes you see some cheap homemade videos on YouTube, many times you see some videos like that. So sometimes, most of the time when people do, try to do a good quality recording, they do the video with the camera and then they have some other device for doing the audio and then they sync the audio and video and then they upload it. Now suppose, sometimes syncing is not done properly.

So, let's say, some shooting has been done and some villain, some people are fighting. The syncing is not done properly, then say the hero is beating the villain and even before the hero's fist hits the villain, the sound comes out. What will happen here? The integration will not happen properly of the sound and the visuals.

So now, in our case, the integration happens effortlessly. Right now, I am speaking. When I am speaking, you are hearing and say I am moving my hands, you are able to see that also.

And you can see all this as an integrated image. So, where does this integration happen? This integration, the Bhagavad Gita explains, it happens through the mind. So, in the 15th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, in the 9th verse, Krishna says, Shrotra is the ears, Chakshu is the eyes.

Chotra, Chakshu, Sparshanam. Sparsha is touch of skin. Rasanam.

Rasa is tongue. We taste rasa. Mango juice or amaras, whatever.

It is rasa. Granam. Granam is the smell.

It is with the nose. These are the five knowledge acquiring senses that we have. Jnanendriya is the Sanskrit word.

Now, these five, they all give inputs. Chotra, Chakshu, Sparshanam. Rasanam, Granam.

Adishtaya, Manaschayam. All of them are centred around the mind. Just like if I have a palm, five fingers are there, they are centred around the palm.

So, like that, these five senses are centred around the mind. Adishtaya, Manaschayam, Vishayan, Upasevate. And in this way, Upasevate, the soul tries to enjoy the material world.

What this means is, say, we could compare the mind to a multimedia screen where various inputs are brought together and they are displayed. Not so much like a TV, but if you have a virtual reality video game. Then, people sometimes, they have some, they sit on a particular chair.

If they are driving a car, they sit on a chair and they have earphones on their ears and they have a steering wheel in their hands and they feel as if they are driving the car. They are driving the car and actually they are playing the video game. So, now actually nothing is happening to them.

If in the video game, say, the person is driving through a car, driving a car through a bridge, across a bridge and suddenly the bridge breaks and the person falls down below into a canyon that is there below and then as this person, the more the person who is playing the video game identifies with that video game, the more this person on seeing the virtual accident will get a shock. What happened? So, the more the virtual reality is simulated well, person will feel the wind whistling through the ear, the person will see the jerk of the wheels, the person will hear the sound of the screeching of the tyres and the person will feel the crash of the car into the canyon below the bridge. So, like that the soul is different from the body, the Bhagavad Gita tells us.

The soul is different from the body and the soul is different from the mind. So, the mind is the integrator of sensory input and it is a displayer for the soul and the soul sees it and the soul responds. So, what the Bhagavad Gita offers us is a complete model of human experience.

A few years ago, Science magazine on one of its anniversaries, it brought out a series of 25 questions which science doesn't have answer to. So, the first question was where did the universe come from? That was the question they didn't have an answer to. Second question was how does consciousness originate? And the explanation that was given is what is the problem with this? Now, when I see, say if I see a red rose or if I see a red sweater, then now when we see a red sweater, all that happens is that so now the red stimulus, the visual data corresponding to the red rose or the red sweater enters into our eyes.

After it enters into our eyes, then it is converted into electrical signals which go through the optic nerve and then it goes to the brain. Then what after that? Who experiences? Where is the information integrated so that one can experience? None of that happens in the brain. So, for us, what we cannot see, like if the weighing balance is there, I cannot see the other weight.

So, the Bhagavad Gita tells us that actually we can see with the eyes of spiritual knowledge. I quoted 15.9, 15.10 is the next verse. The Gita says that how the soul resides in the body, how the soul leaves the body, how the soul is existing while interfacing with the body, all this a deluded person cannot understand.

But a knowledgeable person, a wise person can see with the eyes of knowledge. Gyana chakshu shaha means, what do we really mean by the eyes of knowledge? You know, we don't see with our eyes. We see with the intelligence that enables us to make sense of what is shown by our eyes.

There are two kinds of blind people. There are people who are congenitally blind and there are people who are adventitiously blind. So, congenitally means they are born blind.

And adventitiously, later because of some accident or some incident, they lose their sight. Now, people who are congenitally blind, somehow they are cured in some way. I saw once a video of a person who was blind and afterwards he got eyes.

Now, he was a worksmith. He used to work with tools. So, first time when he saw a hammer, he just couldn't make any sense of the hammer.

He had worked with a hammer lifelong. But when he saw the hammer, he just couldn't make any sense of it. And then as soon as he moved his hand and touched it, he immediately picked it up and started knowing how to work it.

So, when one of these persons was interviewed, he said that actually when first time after the operation the cloth was removed from my eyes, I just could see nothing except a confusing array of colours. Some patterns of black and white, some dark and bright and some shades in between them. And suddenly I heard a sound and I looked around.

I looked around, I saw another pattern of dark and faint, dark and light colours. And then when I saw this voice coming from here, I said, this must be a face. So, even something so basic as a face, because they had no experience of that before, this couldn't make sense of anything.

So, basically just their ability to see did not help them to see. See, when we use the word see, we use it in two senses. Somebody say something to you, I see.

Now, I see, we use it in the sense that I understand, I get what you're saying. So, we use see as a word for vision. And we use the same word see not just for vision, but also for comprehension.

And this transformation of vision into comprehension happens through education. It is when we have knowledge. So, in this case, if the person doesn't have knowledge, just can't even make something so basic as a face or so basic as a tool which they have been using lifelong, they can't make sense of it.

So, when Krishna says, gyan chapsu shaha, we actually need to see with the eyes of knowledge. This is something which we always do all the time. Say, if stock market crashes, a person doesn't have any, some person doesn't have any knowledge of stock market.

Maybe that person's boss is, what happened is holding the head and looking at the computer screen. What happened? And the servant comes along and says, what happened? You just see some white light going down on a screen. Why are you getting so excited about it? What's so great to get work done about it? So, the same data is being seen by both.

But vision doesn't transform into comprehension because there is no education. We don't know what that downward chart means, that downward graph means. So, same way, we need the eyes of knowledge and the Bhagavad Gita offers us the eyes of knowledge.

So, when we go through our life, by living at a physical level, some things make sense. You know, I feel hungry, I eat. I feel tired, I sleep.

So, we do the basic biological functions. But if you really want to understand, okay, how my feelings affect me, where do these feelings come from? How can I channel my feelings and channel my thoughts for maximum effectiveness, for maximum productivity? To understand our full self, we need the eyes of knowledge the Bhagavad Gita gives us. So, science can tell us that our thoughts affect us.

But science cannot offer us much help for organising our thoughts, for disciplining our thoughts, for improving the quality of our thoughts. Anger is a big problem in the world today. People get angry and they become violent and sometimes speak or even do terrible things which they regret later, which hurt others also.

Now, with all the best technology that we have, there is no scientist who can produce an anti-anger pill or an anti-anger medicine. If you feel angry, just take this medicine and cool down. Everything is done, settled now.

It doesn't work like that. The best they can in, say, mental asylums, what they do is, if somebody gets angry, the best that they can do is they can give a sedative. Put the person to sleep.

After they wake up, the cause of anger is not gone. They will become angry again. So, the point is that we, with our best technology, we don't have the capacity to organise our thoughts, to regulate or discipline our thoughts.

But that is what spirituality can offer us. Martin Luther King said that we live in an age of guided missiles and misguided men. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual powers.

By scientific power, we have guided missiles, but because of lack of spiritual power, we have misguided men. So, science can help make things better. You know, we had this big computer, now we have this small computer.

Science can make things better. But spirituality can make people better. Spirituality can make us better.

Spirituality can help us to better organise our thoughts. It can better discipline and focus our thoughts and thereby find more happiness in our own lives, find more effectiveness in whatever we do in our life. So, how can spirituality help us? I started talking about psychosomatic diseases where worry often affects people.

And just by worrying or resenting, people often develop physical problems because of excessive anxiety. So, how can spirituality help us to deal with anxiety? At two levels, see, anxiety is the interest we pay on loans we haven't yet taken. Anxiety is the interest we pay on loans we haven't yet taken.

It means that often, if you look at the things that we worry about, very few of them have happened and most of them don't happen. I get some small ulcer on my body and I think, what if this is a tumour? And what if the tumour is malignant? What if the cancer is terminal? What if I have only one month to live? Oh, I've got only one month to live, what will happen to me? Actually, nothing has happened to me. Just a small swelling on the hand.

What happens? When our thoughts are uncontrolled, one small stimulus becomes like a trigger. Sometimes, you know, on TV there are multiple channels. Say, there is a horror movie channel.

Just press one button and the horror movie starts. So, like that, for the mind, some small incident becomes a stimulus for starting a horror movie. And this horror movie the mind shows to us.

And imagine, there is some TV which one person is watching. And that person is watching a horror movie. What is happening? They are getting horrified.

And they are watching the show. And somebody else is not watching their horror movie. They will watch their show.

What is this? Why is everybody so worked up? Just be calmed down, cool down. But you know, as long as this person is watching the horror movie, they cannot cool down. What needs to be done is, turn off the TV.

Then this person can cool down. So, the other person is saying that there is nothing really happening. Why are you getting so worked up about it? But when the mind is showing the horror movie, when the mind is showing the horror movie to us at that time, because others who are not seeing that horror movie, even if we try to describe it, this can happen, that can happen.

Hey, why are you imagining so much? What imagining? It can happen. You know, take it seriously. Others are not just seeing that.

So, we get very worked up. So, basically, at that time, what we need is to recognise two things. Spirituality helps us understand that there are things in my control and there are things out of my control.

So, the same situation, in that situation, if I focus on the things in my control, if I obsess over the things that are not in my control, that causes anxiety. Let's say tomorrow I have a job interview. And I start worrying.

What kind of questions will come? What will be the mood of the examiner? Will I get this job or not? What will happen if I don't get the job? As I start thinking of all the things that are not in my control, my anxiety increases more and more. But on the other hand, just focus. Okay, what is in my control now? Tomorrow is my interview.

Now I have 12 hours. In these 12 hours, let me see how I can use my time the best and prepare for the interview. Let me revise what I know.

Let me refine myself. Let me plan out how I can answer the questions. And if I just think of that, think of the things that are in my control, that will bring intensity.

So, focussing on the things that are out of our control, that causes anxiety. Focussing on things in our control brings intensity. And this simple shift of focus is not just a mental adjustment.

I can say, focus on what is in your control. But actually, when we practise spirituality, when we practise Bhakti Yoga, at that time, the practise of Bhakti enables us to illumine our inner territory. We start understanding things clearly.

Okay, this kind of thought is coming, that kind of thought is coming. And, just like in Diwali, we light a torch. I light a lamp.

Now, the purpose of lighting a lamp is not just to have a nice, shining object outside our homes. There is one aspect to it. Historically, the point of the lamp, we light the lamp, that lighting the lamp is meant to signify the lighting of our own heart.

So, when our heart is lit with knowledge, then we can understand what is happening in our inner territory. Say, suddenly the power in this house goes off. And as soon as, while the power has gone off, you hear the door opening.

Now, in the darkness, when the door opens, we don't know who is coming in. Is it a friend? Is it an enemy? Is it a neutral person? We just don't know what is happening. And that person comes up close to us and then we don't know who that is.

And suddenly that person gives a big slap. He gives a big punch. What happened? Where did this come from? We just don't understand anything.

But, if the light is on, then we can say, oh, this person who is coming, this is a friend. Welcome. This is a suspicious looking character.

Let's shut the door before that person can come inside. Or at least take up some defensive weapon or assume a defensive posture. So, when there is light, then we can make sense of, we can respond appropriately to whoever is coming into our house.

Similarly, we need light in our inner world. And that light is the light of spiritual knowledge. So, the diya that we light in Diwali, that is actually meant to signify the lighting of spiritual knowledge in our heart.

When spiritual knowledge is lit in our heart, our inner landscape and the occupants in that inner landscape, the entrants in that, those who exit from that, it becomes clear. So, when our thought, when a thought comes in and starts driving us towards anxiety, hey, you know, this thought is unhealthy. I don't want it.

And this thought is good. Let me focus on this. So, what is in my control? Let me bring it in.

What is not in my control? Let me not think about it. So, this capacity to discern, that becomes greater for us when our inner territory is illuminated. And spiritual knowledge, the more we acquire it, it illumines our network.

A second point is that, actually when the lamp of Diwali is lit, the point is to light the lamp and that lamp was historically lit for the purpose of welcoming Lord Ram. And Lord Ram came back after 14 years of exile in the forest. At that time, the Yadavasis were delighted.

And Ram came, by the time he came back, there was a big festival on the outskirts of Ayodhya itself. When Ram came, he landed from his Pushpak Vahan on the outskirts of Ayodhya. Many of the Ayodhya Vasis, they had gone out there and Bharat performed an aarti over there for him and welcomed him very happily.

And by the time Ram entered the city proper, it was already dusk. And in order to exhibit their celebration, they celebrate festive mood as well as to have enough light by which they could, by which Lord Ram could see Ayodhya, Lord Ram could see all of them and they could behold Lord Ram. So they lit their homes.

They lit their homes with an abundance of lights. Similarly, the light of spiritual knowledge doesn't just show us our mind and the kind of thought that are inside us. The light of spiritual knowledge also shows us our own identity as souls.

And the light of spiritual knowledge also shows us God in His supremacy and in His supreme control, control of things. So normally, when I talk about the things in our control and things not in our control. So we usually think that things that are not in my control are out of control.

We think things that are not in my control are out of control. But the spiritual knowledge helps us understand that things that are not in my control are not out of control because they are in Krishna's control. So things that are not in my control are in Krishna's control.

And when we understand that ultimately things are in safe hands, then we understand that I have to do my part. And I am a part and I have to do my part. And the whole will take care of the whole.

So we don't have to worry about the things that are not in our control. We have to focus on the things that are in my control. So tomorrow, I am going back to India.

So when I go to the airport, I am going to take the flight. I will be concerned whether I have my ticket or not, I have my passport or not. But I won't be worried whether the aeroplane will have enough fuel or not, whether the pilot is trained or not, whether the aeroplane is functional or not.

There are other people who are going to take care of this. So I have to just play my part. My part is I have to pay for the ticket and I have to board the flight in time with the ticket and the passport.

So if I take care of my part, there is a whole system which will take care of the other parts. And the same applies to the whole universe, to all of existence also. So in some cases, the system that is controlling other things is easily visible.

In some cases, things may not be so easily visible. But if we focus on doing what we can, then this universe is much bigger than me. And it is under the control of some intelligence which is far greater than me, some power which is far greater than me.

So some temporary things may seem to go wrong, but eventually things will turn out to be right. So this light is the most important light. The light of spiritual knowledge, it not only shows us our inner territory to understand which thoughts are hostile and which thoughts are beneficial, but the light of spiritual knowledge also shows us the presence of God in our hearts.

The presence of God in our lives. And with that presence, we can do our best and leave the rest to God. And that way we can actually become more and more effective in whatever we do in our life.

So Diwali is a festival that can remind us of the importance of illumining our inner territory with spiritual knowledge. So while we light the lamps outside, if we study the Bhagavad Gita, associate with devotees and understand philosophical knowledge, then we can illumine our inner territory. And with that illumined inner territory, we can actually become more effective in organising our thoughts, in managing our emotions and thus channelling our energies to become more effective in life in this world as well as in the next.

I'll summarise. I spoke about, I started from science and spirituality and came to Diwali. So, in science and spirituality I spoke about how science through multiple lines of converging evidence points to the existence of something beyond physical matter.

I talked about psychosomatic diseases where although the person has nothing biochemically wrong, but still because of wrong thoughts, something in the body can go wrong. It can be anxiety or resentment or negativity. And similarly, when something is biochemically wrong, but something is psychologically right, then the biochemical wrong can also set right.

That is the case of placebo effect. To give an example of the power of the mind in shaping our… I also talked about the woman who had the idea that there is a frog in my stomach. And from there, I went, okay, so what is that unknown which is affecting our body? So, if I see a weighing scale going down, another weighing scale going up, even if I don't see what is on that weighing scale, I can know that there is something which is more powerful, more heavy than this.

That's why this weighing scale is going up. So, like that, through science, we cannot know what is there on the other side. What is beyond physical matter.

Because science can only… Science focusses on empirical knowledge perceivable through the senses. So, it can't tell us anything about beyond physical matter. But science can point to the existence of something.

I talked about how in the brain there is no integrator of stimuli. So, when I see a parrot flying, its colour, shape, motion and sound, all four come to me as an integrated vision. So, how does this happen? And that happens through the mind which acts as the integrator of sensory stimuli.

And the soul is the observer. And based on this, based on this background, what do we understand? That actually, the mind is the place where our thoughts arise and they grow into feelings. So, science can help us to control the outer world to some extent.

But science cannot help us to organise our thoughts and our feelings. So, there is no anti-anger medicine. So, science can make things better.

Spirituality can make people better. And I discussed about how spirituality can help us to deal with the problem of anxiety. Two aspects to it.

One is that there are same situation, we focus on things out of our control that cause anxiety. We focus on things in our control that brings intensity. And the capacity to discern, this thought is going, this thought is focussing on things out of control.

This thought is focussing on things in control. That capacity to discern which kind of thought is coming in our head and which kind of thought is assuming control inside us, that capacity is increased when we are internally illumined with spiritual knowledge. Just like who is coming in our house, it becomes clear when the house is lit internally.

And Diwali, when we light the torch externally, that is to signify the lighting of the torch of spiritual knowledge inside our heart. And this torch of spiritual knowledge doesn't just show the kind of thoughts that are going on in our head, inside us, but it also shows us ultimately the Lord who resides inside. Just as the Ayodhya Vasis welcome Ram with the lighting of the torch of Ayodhya, torches in Ayodhya.

Similarly, the light of spiritual knowledge shows us the presence of God in our hearts. And not just His presence, but His omnipotence, His control of things. The things that are not in my control, I understand that they are not out of control, they are in God's control.

And thus I can do my best and leave the rest to Him. I understand that I am a part, I am simply meant to do my part. Since when I climb a plane, I don't have to worry about the fuel and the pilot's competence and the plane's condition.

Simply focus on taking my ticket and my documents. So like that, we do our part and we do our best and leave the rest. And in that way, when by the understanding of bhakti, we illuminate ourselves internally, then we can, our inner world can become more focused, more productive and we can become more effective in whatever we do.

Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? Yes. Thank you so much for the nice talk.

Especially you touched a few things which I which I am not very clear about which I used to think a bit about as well. Specifically, you covered about like physical body, mind and soul. So people talk about physical body and soul.

And there is an interesting relation of the mind between both of them. Yeah, correct. So, one question is like how linked the mind is to the physical body? And how does that relate to my soul? So I think of this from this part.

So, is my mind which is possibly controlling my thought process or whatever. Is it like because of how my soul has developed in the previous forms and will it drastically change in the next birth or like there is no relation at all? Okay. So, now how exactly is the soul, the mind and the body all linked together? And are they determined by what is the change of say the soul from one body to another determined by? Yeah.

See, broadly the soul is unchanging. The soul is called avikaryo yamuchyate. Vikar is transformation or change.

Avikaryo yamuchyate, Krishna says in 2.25 in the Bhagavad Gita. The soul never changes. The soul eternally remains the same.

Now the soul's energy is consciousness. Soul's energy is like I say we have a torch light. The torch light is at one place but torch light is focused on the ground.

It's here. Its rays will go only up to this point. If I focus it up, it will go up to the ceiling.

If I focus it straight ahead, its rays will go to a longer distance. So based on where the torch light's rays are focused, they will go up to a particular distance. So like that, so the torch light's beam we could say that is like its energy.

The soul is at one point. Its energy spreads out. yatha prakashyate ka kuchnam lokam imamravihi, kshetram kshetritha kuchnam prakashyati bharatam.

In 13.34 in the Gita, Krishna states that just as the sun located at one place illumines the whole universe, like that the soul situated in the body illumines the whole body. It illumines it with consciousness. So now the soul itself doesn't change but its projected energy, the consciousness changes.

Just like the torch remains the same but the area extent to which the beam is going, that may change. So what determines this change? That is based primarily on how the soul uses the consciousness. The soul is the source of that energy but that energy is directed outwards.

And depending on how the soul uses that energy, its further capacity to use it is determined. That means that if the soul focusses simply on bodily pursuits, pandering to the needs of the body, eating, sleeping, mating, defending, then the result is in the next lifetime the soul gets a body which is more customised for this. It's not customised for any higher functions.

You know in human body and animal body we all do these four activities, eating, sleeping, mating, defending. But in human body we have the capacity to enquire beyond these immediate biological drives. What more is there in life? How can I achieve that more things? That we have the capacity to enquire.

So when we don't enquire then we are given, our consciousness becomes shrunk and then we don't have the capacity to enquire and that's what happens in non-human bodies. So basically the consciousness shrinks or expands based on how it is used. That is the broad principle of how the soul's consciousness changes from one body to another or the soul remains unchanging.

Now when we talk about a shrinking or expanding of the consciousness, how does it happen? What is the mechanism through which it happens? So basically every body that the soul gets, it has certain capacities. It's like somebody may take a 3 BHK house, somebody may have just a single bedroom house, somebody may have a mansion. Now those particular houses are got by the person based on two things, their desire and their budget.

So like that the soul based on its desires and based on its karmic budget, it gets a future body where in the future body it may have greater capacity to control things or lesser capacity to control things. Somebody may give it a very handsome, healthy, powerful body. Somebody may give it a not so good looking, sickly, weak body.

Like that the soul can get different conditions. This is determined by how the soul acts in this body. So as a result of how the soul uses its energy of consciousness, soul gets smaller or greater capacity to use its consciousness in its future life.

Now in this connection of the soul with the body, the mind acts like the interfacing mechanism. And the mind goes with the soul from one body to the next body. The mind is the constant companion of the soul in material existence.

And that's why the psychology of different of two children even if they are twins is different. Even if they are what science calls as monozygotic twins that means there is only one zygote which split into two. That means they are not just genetically similar, they are identical.

The whole genetic content is the same. And still they are two distinct personalities. Just yesterday in the manner I was speaking at the same point, I have spoken on the topic of near death experiences.

And there also a question came up when I was speaking the same point of monozygotic twins. So then after that one man he got up and he said, you know, actually I have a twin who is monozygotic. And what you are saying is exactly true.

Although we are exactly completely similar physically. Psychologically you couldn't meet two different people. Two people are more different.

So the mind is what goes with the soul from one body to another. So genetically they are similar means their bodies are the same. The soul is spiritual.

Soul is unchanging as I said. The bodies are identical but still the two persons are different. So what is making the difference? Soul is similar, the body is identical.

What is making the difference is what is in between that is the mind. So the mind is shaped by the kind of experiences they have had in the past. And those experiences are stored as impressions in their mind.

And they shape their psychological patterns of thinking, feeling, willing. So those go with the soul from one body to another. And the soul's consciousness is shaped or rather the soul's consciousness is shaped by the way it functions in this life.

And then those impressions are stored. And after those impressions they carry over to the next body. Then the soul starts functioning accordingly.

Suppose say I have been working on one computer. And then I get a new and I have been working on that for a long time. Say I operated, I got a Gmail ID and I searched in Google and I have got my bookmarks on all this computer.

Then I go to a new computer. Now as soon as I log in through Gmail what happens? All my bookmarks appear again. All my search preferences appear again.

The whole set of information that I have got, it all appears automatically. Because that logging in is what connects me. It's a completely new machine.

But that logging in has connected me with the whole information that has been stored from the past. So like that the soul may get a new body. But the soul is logging in to the new body with the same ID.

The mind is the same. So because the soul logs in to the new body with the same mind from X. So that's why even in the new body the psychological patterns from the previous body go on. So liberation requires anyway at the time of death we are going to lose our physical body.

But losing our physical body does not entail liberation. It simply entails transition from this body to another body based on the kind of desires that are there in the soul. But only when the desires that are there in the mind, it's only when the mind becomes purified.

When the mind becomes purified of selfish desires, it's that time that the soul becomes ready for liberation. And that time the soul leaves the the soul leaves not just that time when the pure soul dies. That time they not only leave their physical body but they leave even the mind behind.

And then that pure soul gets liberated out of material existence and attains the kingdom of God. Thank you. Hare Krishna.

Yes, you had a question? Yeah, so I'm a man of science. What I always found difficult is this sort of understanding of the mind about rebirth and the soul. But I guess what I'm trying to say going back to the examples you gave very clearly and quite correctly showed us how science cannot explain the mind.

But how can spiritually explain reincarnation? How does one know? We all talk about this all the time that we are going to be reborn again and we are going to be born again. Spiritually we cannot give evidence of that. I guess you have given us examples about how we could have had experiences in the past.

And we don't know. It may be. Absolutely.

It may be. In the same way as we say that science does not know what the mind is when science has not matured enough to kind of explain. I know of cutting-edge technologies now showing how the neural connection works and how thought processes go.

But in the same way is this not just filling a void which science cannot explain? But perhaps that is just my poor understanding. So if you can enlighten a bit on that that may be useful for me. Yeah, sure.

So when we say that science can't explain consciousness is it that current science can't explain? And maybe as cutting-edge neuroscience finds out more and more about the brain, we will be able to explain things. Yes, science has progressed remarkably in the last 400-500 years and especially the last 50 as we can say. And certainly future scientific knowledge can tell us a lot more.

At the same time there is a particular method which science uses. And that method it is called as methodological naturalism. That means science uses, science looks for natural explanations for natural phenomena.

Natural science uses in terms of physical or material you could say. It looks for material phenomena and it tries to find material explanations for those phenomena. So now this works remarkably well when material phenomena or material causes are all that are involved.

But if something non-material is involved, then science just doesn't take them into account. Some people may extrapolate from that and say that there is nothing non-material existing only. If somebody says that there is nothing non-material existing, that is not a scientific statement.

That is an ideological statement. Materialistic ideology is making that statement. So now as far as applying this background of science looking for natural explanations for natural phenomena to the framework of brain study.

Certainly the correlation between the brain states or activation of different parts of the brain, the chemical states, biochemical states of the electrochemical states of the different brain cells during during different experiences, all that has been mapped a lot and it will be mapped much much more. So there is a fundamental difference between correlation and causation. So now correlation basically means that two events happen together.

But correlation does not necessarily imply causation. So there is a standard example that is given in scientific literature for this is that if somebody finds that cleaner cars last longer. Now the cars that are cleaned regularly, they last longer.

Now if this is a cleanliness and longevity, these two factors are correlated. An uncritical mind may think cleanliness made the car last longer. But we may say physically cleaning the car that may not have anything to do with longevity.

There could be multiple fact explanations. Maybe people who are meticulous enough to clean the cars, they are also meticulous enough to service their cars. And because they service their cars regularly, that's why the cars last longer.

So there is correlation and there is causality or causation. There is definitely correlation between activation of different brain areas and emotions. But whether that correlation is of any causal nature, that is a different question.

That means that to give this a couple of other examples or other points that scientists have tried to say people get depressed and there are anti-depressant pills. There are tranquillizers which help people to calm down anxiety also. Now essentially what they do is the scientists have found out which are the chemicals which get increased in the brain when somebody feels anxious or when somebody feels depressed.

And they try to counter that chemical change through injection of appropriate chemical or through, not injection necessarily, the physical injection, but through pills or whatever, taking those pills. Now this helps. But the help is short-lived.

Now how this happens and if somebody is very glum and depressed they will cheer up and smile. Just by smiling a person will feel better. But just smiling alone will not make the person happy.

So normally smiling and laughing they are the results of happiness. They are not the causes of happiness. When I am happy naturally I smile and laugh.

But it is not just simply by smiling and laughing I will become happy. Yes, certainly smiling and laughing can improve my mood a little bit. But that is not originally the cause.

Happiness is an inner state which expresses itself through smiles and laughs. So if smiles and laughs could produce happiness then all of us could get some face-twisting machines. Whenever I feel unhappy I could just make myself smile and I will be happy.

It would not work like that. Or at a more graphic level sometimes when children are small some relatives may come and they just have fun with the child, they tickle the belly of the child. And when they tickle the belly of the child, the child may start laughing.

A small child will start laughing like that. Is that laughter happiness? If that laughter were happiness and we all want to be happy then we could all get our perpetual tickling machines. And we could be happy all the time by tickling that machine.

But that is not really happiness. Although physical stimulus has produced a physical reaction the inner element of happiness, that is missing entirely. So similarly there are certain chemicals which are associated with certain states but they are not the causes of those states.

So simply by manipulating the chemicals we cannot actually in a lasting way change people's emotions. So there has to be people have to learn the art of managing their emotions and that involves managing their lives. Managing their chemical balance cannot manage their emotions and manage their lives in a sustainable way.

So there is some cause beyond the chemicals of the body which affects the chemicals of the brain which affects the chemicals of the brain. And that is our conscious experience. It is our conscious experience which is at the root and that causes certain changes in the brain.

So now if neuroscience works purely on a materialistic framework then it assumes that those chemical states, those chemical imbalances they themselves are not just the cause of the emotion but they are also somehow connected with the experience of the emotion. So there is in the study of consciousness what they call as a soft problem and the hard problem of consciousness. Soft problem is basically to correlate different chemical states or different areas of the brain with different emotions.

And that problem is being solved by the study of the brain in greater detail. But the hard problem of consciousness that is actually where does conscious experience occur and who experiences that and more importantly why is conscious experience required? What do I mean by why is conscious experience required means? Let's say now we have many computers which can perform many of the functions which earlier machines could not. Some of the functions they do better than humans also.

Say one of the incidents which is considered to be a landmark in the history of artificial intelligence is when the chess champion about a decade ago, Garry Kasparov was defeated by a computer. Deep blue. Now all over the world in newspaper there were headlines, Kasparov was catching his head.

It is disgrace to be defeated by a machine. And now Kasparov was devastated and the makers of deep blue were delighted. But what about deep blue itself? Now deep blue is no emotion over there.

Deep blue did not even understand that I had won. Deep blue did not go through any of the excitement of playing a game. None of the thrill of winning the game.

All that it had done was it had simply processed. The processed which moves in chess to make based on a database that it had. So now this means that the chess computer or the computer, chess playing computer it can do all the information processing that the human brain can do with respect to playing chess.

And it can do that information processing better than what we humans can do. Now if information processing is all that is involved over there then firstly, who is it that experiences? The computer is doing information processing better than us. But it is not experiencing anything.

We are experiencing. This question could be phrased in two ways. Who is it that experiences? In our case, who is it that is there in us who experiences? Who is there in deep blue? Who is lacking in deep blue because of which it doesn't experience? Or another way of phrasing it is that why is there an experiencer at all? If information processing could do everything, if information processing could involve playing a game of chess why is there an experiencer at all? From the materialist Arthur Schopenhauer he said that materialism is the philosophy in which the philosopher forgets himself.

That means materialism takes account of the observed world but it doesn't take into account the observer. So, digital circuitry and neural circuitry there are many models which find remarkable similarity, not in structure but in function, in concept. Digital circuitry and neural circuitry can be correlated in many ways.

So, if the digital circuitry can function without consciousness why does the neural circuitry need consciousness? But there is consciousness. We all have feelings. So, where do these feelings come from? Just as sophisticated digital circuitry doesn't entail feelings within itself, sophisticated neural circuitry doesn't entail feelings in itself.

There has to be someone some distinct conscious being who makes sense of what is observed or of what the patterns of biochemical states in the neural circuitry mean. To explain what I mean this is that, suppose if I write something on a sheet and I give it to you and you look at it suppose I have written you are a fool what is this? You may get shocked. Now, actually you are a fool.

Why is this person saying this to me? Now, actually what is happening is on that paper there are simply ink patterns. Now, if I write you are a fool, the paper does not feel angry. ink pattern themselves don't contain the emotion of anger.

So, the ink patterns are simply basically patterns of black on a white background. There has to be some conscious being who observes them and makes sense of them. If suppose I had written in English and I give it to somebody who doesn't understand English, for them those patterns make no sense.

So, just as we can have ink patterns on paper like that, similarly we can correlate there are the patterns of electrochemical signals in the brain cells. But there is someone just as the patterns of ink on paper themselves don't convey any emotion, the emotion is experienced by someone who is observing those ink patterns and making sense out of them. Similarly, the electrochemical states in the brain cells they have a pattern.

But that pattern is observed by someone. And it is that observer who makes sense. It is the observer who experiences emotions.

So, science by its future progress can more and more exhaustively map do the neural mapping of the brain more exhaustively. But this hard problem of consciousness actually the more science advances whether it is in terms of neural mapping or it is in terms of digital replication of what we call as the functions of human intelligence. Both ways it will actually highlight more and more the distance between information processing and conscious experience.

And conscious experience is something separate from information processing. And scientific advancement will deal with information processing. But it cannot explain conscious experience.

Because it is non-physical. It is just, it is a undeniable reality for all of us. But at the same time it is just not in the scope of physical science.

So, when we say science cannot explain it, it is not that we are limiting what science can do. Rather, the method that science has chosen itself limits its scope. Just like if somebody uses a fishing net which is having holes of 1 inch by 1 inch, then no matter how long they fish, they will not be able to catch fish that are smaller than 1 inch in size.

So like that, the methodology of science itself will find out more and more correlations of the brain with consciousness but will not be able to detect consciousness itself. Now, when we say science can't explain how exactly the spirituality explains this? Spirituality explains it again by first of all postulating that there is a fundamental reality that matter and the material forces that are there, they are one reality. Consciousness is a fundamental reality.

It is a distinct reality from matter and now the consciousness itself is because it is non-material, it cannot be understood by material means. We can infer its existence through logic but whereas material science is experimental, spiritual science is experiential. It is when we subject ourselves to the experience that is brought about by the practise of spirituality.

The Bhagavad Gita Krishna says, pratyaksha avagamam dharmyam susukham kartum avyayam. He says in 9.2 that the higher reality can be experienced pratyaksha avagamam susukham kartum avyayam. Experience higher happening by the practise of spirituality.

So essentially, when you practise bhakti yoga, by the practise of bhakti yoga, by the practise of chanting of the holy names, by the practise of studying the Gita, by all this our consciousness rises. Consciousness rises means that the soul, consciousness is currently caught in the body. Like a person watching a horror movie, completely caught in the horror movie.

But if somebody comes and oh I am here, I didn't realise it. So like that, the atma is inside the body and next to it the paramatma is there. But the atma is so caught right now, the soul is so caught in material reality, the soul has become unaware of spiritual reality.

So the more we expose ourselves to spiritual reality by study of scripture, by chanting the holy names, worshipping Krishna, then what happens? The atma awakens. And as the atma awakens, then spiritual reality becomes perceivable for us through our spiritually awakened, spiritually activated senses. So yatra paramate chittam niruddham yoga sevaya yatra chaiva atmanatmanam pashyanatmanitushyati Krishna describes the state of samadhi in 6.20 to 6.23 and then he says yatra uparamate chittam when the consciousness stops getting infatuated by material things, niruddham yoga sevaya, by the consistent practise of yoga, then yatra chaiva atmanatmanam the consciousness turns inwards and the atma perceives itself.

pashyanatmanitushyati one becomes delighted, satisfied, one rejoices in the self. So this happens by the gradual practise of bhakti. So initially we may not be able to perceive.

Just like, I'll conclude it's a long answer, but I'll conclude with a practical example. See, when a child, when a mother gives birth to a child for the first, you know, the child is not aware of anything. Even the mother breast-feeds the child, the child does not even understand it.

The child just feels there is some nice thing from which some nice thing is coming out. And the child just suckles it. But as the child starts growing, then the child starts perceiving, oh, there is a person, and this person loves me.

Gradually this is my mother. And that's how the child starts growing. Now suppose it's a very cold night, and the child is shivering.

And the mother says, oh, my baby is shivering. And the mother puts a blanket on the child. Now in this case, the child is sleeping, the child doesn't understand what is happening.

But as the child starts growing, and then, again the child is, there is sleep, there is very thin awareness, a semi-sleep state. And then the child is semi-sleep, there is shivering, and then suddenly, the child feels something comforting, something warm. And then, the child has grown sufficiently.

Although the child has not opened the eyes, the child has not seen anything, the child is able to connect. Oh, that is warmth of the blanket is a sign of my mother's love for me. My mother must be here.

She has put this blanket on me. The child has not opened the eyes and seen the mother. But just the warmth of the blanket signifies the mother's love.

So similarly, at our stage, we are like in a state of spiritual infancy from which we are growing up. So, as we are growing, we are not able to see God, like our mother, father, His love for us. But, as we keep practising spirituality, we may be agitated, we may be worried, we may be frustrated, we may be depressed.

But, if we just absorb ourselves in Krishna through prayer, through meditation, through chanting, through scriptural study, we will be experiencing the very comforting peace and strength streaming over us. And with Jnana Chakshu, with our intelligence, we will be able to connect that peace and joy with Krishna's love for us. And that's how we will perceive.

Okay, when I chant, why do I feel so good? When I pray, when I immerse myself in God, why do I feel so peaceful? Because this experience is like the mother putting a blanket. And when we connect it that way, then God will become an experienced reality for us. Bhakti, Pareesh Anubhava, Viraktir Anyatra Chah.

This Bhakti is a process which gives us Pareesh Anubhav. The experience of Isha, God, who is Para, who is non-material, cannot be perceived by any material means. That God is Anubhava.

We get the experience of that God through Bhakti. And the result of that is Viraktir Anyatra Chah. Virakti means that we are no longer infatuated by worldly experiences.

I crave for this. I crave for that. No.

The same series of Samadhi versus Krishna says once we experience this, such a satisfying experience, that nothing more. I don't want anything more. This is what I want more and more.

And that's how we will through the experience of our own heart understand that spirituality, our spiritual practises have connected us with the ultimate reality. Thank you. Yeah, please.

Thank you so much for your useful explanation of this Am I correct in understanding that the degree of consciousness which is expressed by the process Okay. Okay. Okay.

Wait a minute. Okay. First was does the degree of level of consciousness indicate the strength of the soul? Okay.

So, does the level or degree of consciousness indicate the strength of the soul? Strength may not be the best word for it because often we have the idea of strength in terms of physical. The soul itself is not physical. So, we could say that the soul always has the capacity for consciousness.

But, based on the kind of uses that it puts the consciousness to the capacity becomes channelled more or less. That means for a grass actually, Bhagavad Gita explains that all all living forms they have souls just like you and I have. Now, a grass also has a soul like you and I have, a blade of grass.

But the whole purpose of a blade of grass is simply to grow maybe half an inch taller, one inch taller. Now, its consciousness has shrunk so much Please come, you can start serving. Its consciousness has shrunk so much that it cannot perceive anything more.

Now, why has this happened? Because the soul that soul in previous lives has chosen not to tap its higher powers, not to use its consciousness for any higher purposes. And a soul's consciousness gets more and more shrunk by that. So, rather than saying that the level of consciousness represents the strength of the soul, we could say that the level of consciousness represents more the karma of the soul.

The kind of activity that the soul has done in the past, based on that, its present consciousness is shaped. So, some people are very thoughtful, very introspective, very intelligent. Some people are very dull and dumb.

No offence intended, but there are some people like that. So, even if we tell them things, they just don't register in them. So, why is that? That is just based on the way they have acted in the past.

Now, this is not unchangeable. Even in this life, just like if somebody has muscles, they don't use the muscles, the muscles are trophic. But if they use the muscles, the muscles become stronger.

So, like that, we can also develop the faculty of consciousness more and more. So, the present level or extent of consciousness of the soul, we can say that it reflects the past karma of the soul. Does this answer your question? Yeah.

Displaying. I understood. I remember that question.

So, the soul is basically observing what is displayed on the screen of the mind. So, can the soul have some other experiences also? Yes, definitely. In fact, the soul's eternal nature is to have spiritual experiences.

So, and that means that as we talked about, you know, say a child is watching a horror movie. Child is sitting next to the mother. Child is caught so much in watching the horror movie.

Child is trembling, shivering, crying, screaming. But child is just not seeing the mother next to him. So, like that, it may well happen that the soul is observing what is displayed on the screen of the mind and is caught in that.

But the soul is not able to perceive the presence of God next to him. So, the Upanishads give the example of two birds. It says that there is a tree on which there are two birds.

One bird is simply observing and the other bird is busy pecking the fruits in the tree. Sometimes the fruits are sweet and the bird rejoices. And sometimes the fruits are bitter, sour and the bird feels disgusted.

So, the Upanishads indicate that these two birds refer to the Atma and the Paramatma. So, the Paramatma is simply observing us. The Atma is caught trying to enjoy this and sometimes gets pleasure, sometimes gets suffering.

But basically when we practise Yoga, when we practise especially Bhakti Yoga, what is happening is that that same Krishna who is present at the spiritual level of reality, he makes himself accessible at the material level of reality. So, just to expand that metaphor, the child is watching the horror movie and is caught in the horror movie. The mother is trying to shake and get the child out.

The child is caught in that. So, say, if somewhere that horror movie is being shot and the mother goes over there and enters into the TV screen. Hey, do you see me? Who are you? What are you doing here? And then within that, the child's attention gets caught on this person.

And then the child becomes more and more tuned to the mother and becomes more and more aware of the mother. The same person is sitting right next to me. So, like that, this is actually the meaning of Avatar.

God exists at the spiritual level of reality, but he descends to the material level. Our consciousness is caught at the material level right now. So, God manifests at the material level.

So, his holy names, they are Nama Avatar. In the temple, we have the deities, they are called the Archa Avatar. So, the Bhagavad Gita is called as Grantha Avatar.

They are all manifestations of God. And so God is manifest, the spiritual reality God is manifesting at the material level. And the more we expose our consciousness to him, the more our consciousness becomes spiritualised.

And as it becomes more and more spiritualised, then we can become aware of his spiritual presence also. And the more we become aware of the spiritual presence, there are many experiences of great saints. You know, they physically exist in one place, but they are in trance.

They are experiencing great emotions, great ecstasies. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is playing the role of a great saint. You just be talking with some people and suddenly you get a sight of Krishna.

And you get so delighted, so ecstatic. It's going to a trance of ecstasy because of that. So, what is happening is physically, as long as the person is there in this world, physically, if they have the body, they perceive things physically.

But they can perceive an alternate reality also. Because the soul is capable of spiritual cognition originally, but because of attachment, the soul's consciousness is presently caught in matter. But when there is no attachment, the soul can perceive spiritual reality and be stimulated, excited, fulfilled by those spiritual visions and spiritual experiences also.

Does this answer your question? One final question. And unconscious enough to understand what is happening, how do I disconnect? I do not want to have a certain thought. How do I immediately disconnect from it? Correct.

That's a good question. So, once we understand that some thought is undesirable, how do we disconnect from it? See, negative thoughts, or in general we could say thoughts in themselves, they are like darkness. Now, there is no way to drive out darkness per se.

The only way to drive out darkness is to turn on light. If I treat darkness like a physical object which I'll try to push out, I can't do that. But I just invoke the light, the darkness goes away.

Similarly, thoughts cannot be driven out. But thoughts can be crowded out. That means when we fill our consciousness with some other thought, then that thought goes out.

So, what we need to do is suppose somebody tells you, please don't think of a blue monkey. Now, in your life, you may never have thought of a blue monkey. But when I tell don't think of a blue monkey, the mind will go to the thought of a blue monkey.

So, we just can't, don't think about this if somebody says that. It doesn't work. Because we have to think about something.

So, when we notice there is some undesirable thought coming in my mind, at that time we have to trigger a chain of desirable thoughts. one ready way to trigger positive thoughts is simply to chant the names of Krishna. When we chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra.

Now, we just chant it. Initially, we don't get absorbed. But just keep repeating it, keep repeating it, keep repeating it.

The consciousness gets absorbed in that. And as the consciousness gets absorbed, the negative thought goes out. And just as there is chanting the name of God, there are different manifestations.

We can have kirtans, we can have some pictures of Krishna, we can have some shlokas, there can be spiritual stimuli, which we have to find out which stimuli we connect with quickly. Which stimuli we can get absorbed in. And those stimuli which we can get easily absorbed in, we need to make those stimuli readily accessible to ourselves.

In spiritual terminology, they are called as uddipan. Uddipan means that which stimulates us, which makes us active. So, if we have something which we like, something which we can connect with easily, and then we keep that ready with us.

Then as soon as the negative thought chain starts coming in my mind, I can't drive it out, but I can crowd it out. So, I immediately redirect my thoughts towards a positive thought chain. So, it can be something as simple as we like some insightful quotes, some insightful thoughts, we just keep that in our phone and I quickly read that.

Immediately that will redirect the thoughts. And that way, we can stop that negative thought chain, not by driving it out, but by crowding it out. Thank you.

So, I thank all of you for your kind attention. Hare Krishna. Namaskaram.