Does Gita 2.12 actually counter impersonalism?
Hare Krishna question what does the gita 2.12 actually prove it simply says that there is duality there are multiple individuals who exist eternally but the acharyas quote nityo nityanam to talk about how there is one supreme soul who exists as distinct from the many subordinate souls but this distinction between the supreme soul and the subordinate soul is not actually pointed out in the bhagavad gita in this verse so what is a valid inference from this verse answer yes the verse primarily stresses the eternality of individuality that I you and all these kings we existed in the past we exist now is understood and we will exist in the future also so this is essentially a declaration of the eternality of individuality and baldi and ramanujacharya is one of the most prominent acharyas who uses this verse to stress to counter impersonalism now what are the essential points of the monistic doctrine that the soul and the supreme are one and that they will merge into each other at liberation so and especially the bhagavad gita is considered to be a book which is meant to guide one towards enlightenment and it's also understood that krishna is enlightened that's why he is speaking the bhagavad gita so if krishna is enlightened then krishna is speaking the bhagavad gita for krishna's enlightenment then if they are going to be enlightened then they should become one but the fact that they are not become one krishna is saying that we will not become one we will stay individual even in the future i will exist you will exist all these kings will exist so this indicates that the eternality of individuality continues even after enlightenment so yes this verse doesn't talk about the concept of there being a ishwara who is supreme and there being a jiva who is subordinate but this duality of the subordinate jiva and the supreme ishwara this is widely talked about in the scriptures for example in the upanishads also there are prayers to the supreme and in the vedas there are prayers to the supreme in the puranas there are prayers to the supreme so in fact when shankaracharya and his followers they try to deal with this problem by saying that all these talks about worship are laghu vakya and the talks about ikya are the mahavakya and this is how they try to subordinate the whole thing subordinate personalism to impersonalism but there is no scriptural basis for the idea that certain statements are mahavakya and others are laghu vakya and ramacharya says this would make most of scripture redundant in fact not redundant but misleading and anyway the idea that if there is some mahavakya and some laghu vakya then at least krishna is enlightened and what krishna speaks should be the enlightened level of reality so when krishna is saying i eternally exist and he is saying you eternally exist this conception of i and you this duality should not be present in one who is enlightened so prabhupada argues following ramacharya and baldevidya aroshan that either we say if krishna is enlightened then individuality exists in the enlightened state also if krishna is not enlightened then there is no point in hearing the bhagavad gita because it will not lead to it is not spoken by enlightened being it will not lead to enlightenment so they have to make choices and usually even shankaracharya has talked about the glory of the bhagavad gita he has talked about how it is spoken by krishna, mukha padma vinishtita so now the emphasis is that the difference between the jiva and the soul is repeatedly talked about in scripture sorry not jiva and bhagwan jiva and ishwara is repeatedly talked about in scripture and impersonalism says that these two will become one on liberation so when krishna says that there will be individuality in the eternal realm that itself means that the polarity between the supreme ishwara and the subordinate jiva will continue so that that difference between the jiva and ishwara is not talked about in this verse that's true krishna talks about it later in the bhagavad gita at several places when for example he says I am the source of everything or he says that even the devatas do not know me because I am there and of course he says that there are two kshetras in the body there are two kshetragyas in the body and one kshetragya is one who knows all the kshetras that is 13.3 and 13.23 also krishna says that's actually 15.17 this is 13.23 13.23 is just before that he has talked about the purusha who is inside and who is caught in the body and he says and this is called the paramatma so the point is that this specific subordinate position of the jiva and the supreme position of the ishwara it is a consistent teaching of scripture which impersonalists try to overturn by saying that the jiva and the ishwara will eventually become one so if this verse states that jiva and the ishwara will not become one that itself means that the standard statement of scripture that the jiva is to worship the ishwara that is continued by the statement that is at least not countered or the counter, the impersonalist counter to that is countered over here and in that sense, so if there is a standard path and the impersonalists are saying this is not the right path then whatever they are saying is the right path, if Krishna says this is not right and there is no oneness happening, then that means the standard is right so in that sense the verse gives a particular statement which is consistent with the majority teaching of scripture and that concordance, concordance means different statements coming together in harmony that concordance of scriptural conclusion is brought about by the acharyas in the purpose, so the verse says that individuality is eternal and there are many places where worship is talked about, worship implies that there is a worshipper and there is a worshipable so combining the internality of individuality and the duality of worshipper and worship the acharyas explain that they combine this and substantiate it by quoting nityo nityanam chetanas chetananam and in this way they establish, they infer from the eternality of individuality to the eternality of Vishwara, eternality of the jiva so Krishna, we are eternal parts of Krishna Thank you.