Duryodhana character analysis 3 – Envy perpetuates dissatisfaction and invites destruction

[Seminar at ISKCON, Perth, Australia] Video:

15 Should be okay. Hare Krishna. So, we'll discuss the third and concluding part of our discussion on Duryodhana's obstinacy and what we can learn from him.

Now, yesterday I discussed on the point of how Duryodhana, because of letting his envy get triggered, came to a level of bestial monstrosity, very dishonoured and tried to disrobe Draupadi. And the Pandavas were exiled eventually. So, today I'll focus on two things.

One is that how the envious, even when they become successful, they don't become satisfied. And secondly, how eventually that envy can blind us to all good sense. So, after the Pandavas were exiled into the forest, Duryodhana thought that now I'll be happy.

Oh, the Pandavas are miserable. I am prosperous. But he felt, actually, I'm not seeing the Pandavas poverty and they're not seeing my prosperity.

So, where is the fun? So, the nature of envy is that, as I said earlier, that it makes us all very externally controlled. Our happiness depends very much on externals. So, he felt that I should be able to flaunt my wealth in front of them.

And when they can see how much poverty they are and how much prosperity I am, then their agony will increase. And seeing their agony, my joy will increase. Now, Dhritarashtra was very cautious.

Because although he was attached to Duryodhana, his attachment also led him to want to keep Duryodhana safe. So, therefore, he did not want Duryodhana to do anything that would further antagonise the Pandavas. So, Duryodhana had his spies always keeping an eye on the Pandavas.

And he knew that they were at a particular place in the forest in Kamyavan. And he thought that, let me go there with my royal opulence, with my chariot, with my queen, with my maidservants and let them see how much I am enjoying. So, now, he knew Dhritarashtra would not allow this.

So, he came up with a reason. He said, in that area, we have many of our cow and sheep flock. And we have not gone to inspect that for a long time.

So, I will go there. So, Dhritarashtra said, that is the place where the Pandavas are there. Don't antagonise them.

He said, no, no, I won't do that. And then they went off. And so the Pandavas were on, there was a river and the Pandavas were on one side of the river where Yudhishthir was living more or less brahmanically, performing yajnas, hearing from sages.

And he was satisfied, relatively speaking. But the Kauravas came on the opposite side. And they came with elephants and horses and chariots.

They came, they camped near the river. And Duryodhana came, he wanted to bathe in the river. And suddenly, he heard a voice saying that, no, these are the areas set out on earth for the Gandharvas, for the heavenly residents.

And you cannot come here. So, Duryodhana's anger immediately got triggered. He says, who are you? I am the king of the earth.

The whole earth belongs to me. He said. So, the Gandharvas told him, oh fool, whatever rule you have on the earth, that is because the gods have sanctioned it.

And here we celestials are telling you, you cannot come here. He said, you get out of here, otherwise I will destroy you. And when they did not move away, he just laughed at him.

He started attacking them. He had his army with him, soldiers and commanders. They all attacked him.

But the Gandharvas had celestial weapons and they just devastated him completely. So, one by one, his soldiers were either wounded or killed. And his major assistant Dushyasana got wounded and fled.

And then Shakuni got wounded. He also ran away. And Karna was fighting fiercely.

But seeing Karna to be a formidable opponent, the Gandharvas attacked him. And when they concentrated their attack on him, he also turned. Being wounded, unable to bear the wounds, he also fled.

So, Duryodhana was left all alone. His arrogance was so much injured that in fury he kept fighting, just not willing to accept that he is being defeated. And he was defeated and he was captured.

So, one of the soldiers from Duryodhana's side ran over to the other side of the river and told Yudhishthira that Duryodhana has been conquered. Now Bhima, he said, at last it seems the gods have become favourable to us. Till now everything bad was happening to us.

But now that which we would have required great effort and a great war to achieve, the gods have done for us. Duryodhana has received the results of his bestiality. So, Yudhishthira said, in front of the world, we are all together.

We are all the Kuru family. Within us, we may have hundred and five. They are hundred, we are five.

We have our differences. But ultimately, by arresting Duryodhana, by taking charge of the Kuru wealth, by arresting the Kuru women, they have challenged us. So, we have to protect them.

We have to release them. And Bhima was not ready. Yudhishthira was also very intelligent.

He said, oh Bhima, what can give you more joy than to have your mortal enemy dependent on your mercy now? Oh, yeah, that's good. So, when we are to get somebody to do something for us, we have to understand what inspires them and show how whatever they need to do is connected with what inspires them. So, that way we can, there may be something about a particular service that inspires us, but that aspect of that service may not inspire somebody else.

So, we had to find out how to engage people and inspire them to do the service. And Arjuna and Bhima went and Arjuna released Duryodhana. When that happened, Duryodhana was so insulted, first of all, to have been defeated and arrested.

And on top of that, to be now released by the Pandavas. So, the very thing he had planned, the opposite of that happened. His plan was that the Pandavas will feel humiliated on seeing my prosperity and their poverty.

But what happened? He became humiliated because he was arrested and the Pandavas had to release him. This is how, time and time again, when the evil make plans to destroy the godly, those very plans backfire against them. At this point, Duryodhana became so frustrated.

He said, Oh Arjuna, you have done a great favour to me. In future, whenever you need something, I will grant a boon to you. So, Arjuna said, I don't need anything right now.

And as Duryodhana was going back, he just felt so humiliated. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells that, For those who have been honoured, dishonour is worse than death. So, he felt that I cannot bear this dishonour.

And he suddenly turned towards Dushyasan. Dushyasan, Karna, Shakuni were there. He said that, Now Dushyasan, you go and become the king.

I am going to go into the forest and fast till death. Dushyasan said, I cannot live without you. Shakuni said, sometimes we all meet with bad fortune.

Don't worry about it. You already have the kingdom with you. Karna told him, it is just the luck of the Pandavas that they won.

They all tried to pacify in different ways. But he was not ready to listen at all. So, then he went and he started meditation.

There is a religious vow called Prayavrata. Prayavrata means the vow of fasting till death. Whatever life is remaining prior, that I will end by simply fasting.

So, this is, at one level we could call it suicide. But it is not exactly suicide. Because it is done in a religious mood.

And it is not just one moment destruction of the body. When actually it takes a lot of pain to fast till death, it is not easy. But when one takes up that pain, there is some amount of purification or elevation that may come because of that.

So, he sat down in meditation. As he sat down in meditation, suddenly he felt himself picked up from his body and transported. And then he went to the netherworlds where the daityas and dhanavas were sitting and they were discussing and they were performing yajna.

And they told Duryodhana that, what are you doing losing heart because of such frustration? He said, you are meant for glory. He says, you have been born on the earth for a great purpose. We all daityas and dhanavas, we perform great austerities so that you who are our greatest product will be born on the earth.

And through you, you will rule the earth. And we will empower you for that. When the war takes place, we will enter into the minds and bodies of your warriors and they will destroy your opponents.

All that we have done for you to empower you, don't throw it away because of a moment's frustration. They kept exhorting him for quite some time. And then he came back.

And he found himself in his body, opened his eyes and he thought about, what had he seen? Was it a dream? Was it real? He said, anyway, the daityas and dhanavas are with me. Then what is this reversal? He got up and he went back and told, oh Shakuni, your words persuaded me. So I'll go back.

And then he went back and he started making further plans of how eventually the war will take place. He will defeat the Pandavas. He started forming alliances from that point onwards.

So here there is something significant to understand that actually one of the major differences in the modern world view and the pre-modern world view is that the modern world view considers there to be no world apart from this world. Any conception of another world is rejected. This life is all that is.

And there is nothing beyond it. But whether it is the Vedic world view or whether it is the world view of other traditions, in the past there has always been an understanding that our world is only one world and reality has many different levels. So the Vedic understanding is that there are three worlds.

There is the upper planetary systems, the heavenly world, the earthly world and then the nether worlds. Nether means lower worlds. And beyond that there is the spiritual world.

So there is a fight between the devatas and the dhanavas, between the suras and asuras. And humans are caught in between. In a sense both the demons and the gods are more powerful than the humans.

But humans are more virtuous or are more capable of being virtuous, more inclined to be virtuous than the demons. So if you consider in terms of hierarchy, the humans are over here in power. In terms of hierarchy both the devatas and asuras are above humans, humans are below.

But in terms of consciousness, you can say that the asuras are below, the humans are in between and the devatas are above. Of course, in terms of punya, the devatas are above humans. But in terms of the facility to practise bhakti, the earth is the best.

So we can envision the universe to be like a 14-story building in which there are 7 stories above the ground level and 7 stories below the ground level. So if somebody wants to get out of that building, they have to come to the 7th level. And from the 7th level it is easiest to get out.

So like that, the 7th level is the earthly level. There are 7 levels below, atar, vitar, sutar, asatar, talatar, mahatar, patar, like that. And there are swaraloka, bhurloka, bhuvarloka, maharloka, janloka, tapaloka and satyaloka, like that there is above.

So there are these different planetary systems above and below and for spiritual development the earthly planetary system is the best. In the lower planetary system, the lower desires and the reactions to those lower desires are so strong that people don't have the calmness to pursue spiritual life. In the higher planetary systems, the sensual pleasures are so easily available that it is very difficult to practise spiritual life again.

It is, suppose in the morning we are chanting, we are told, sit and chant and right in front of us there is a full glass of delicious sweet rice. Now, for the next 2 hours, look at that glass of sweet rice and chant attentively. It will be almost impossible because the enjoyment is so inviting that it will distract us from our devotion.

So heavenly parents are like that. There is so much ready enjoyment available. In the earth also enjoyment is available but there is some effort to get it and there is also distress that comes in the pursuit of that enjoyment.

So the impetus for spiritual growth is more. So here, when Duryodhana was acting, he was acting in his own demoniac ways but he was also acting as an instrument for the other beings. But these were not higher beings, they were lower beings.

So when we act in the world, we may think, I am going to do this, I am going to do that and we think we are acting on our own. Bhagavad Gita says that those who think that they are the doers, they are an illusion. Those who think I alone am the doer, that person is an illusion because of the ego.

So material nature is acting and material nature uses different people as agents. So we living beings, who are in the transitional level in the world, we can either come under the godly influence or we can come under the demonic influence. And when we come under the godly influence, then we act in a godly way.

But by default, the nature of the material world is we go down towards lower influences. So if say there is an ocean in which water is flowing, if one current is flowing in this way, in one part of the ocean the current is flowing this way, in other part of the ocean the current is flowing this way, now critical is where we position ourselves. If we want to go this way and we are in this part of the ocean, just we swept in this direction.

If we want to go this way, we have to place ourselves in this part of the current. So like that we can say in this world there is a current of godliness that is there and there is a current of ungodliness. And where we place ourselves will determine where we will go.

So whatever we wish to do, if say Duryodhana by his past karma, he was a soul who had some powers, but then he became an instrument for powers beyond himself. And they used it to spread godliness or spread ungodliness. In life we are forced to act as we choose to desire.

Once we desire something, and if we desire it strongly enough, then things go beyond our control. Then there are forces which just take us over and just push us in that direction. So Duryodhana we see time and time again he met with frustration.

But frustration doesn't bring about renunciation. Duryodhana did not lose his attachment, did not give up his envy. He wanted to give up his life, but as soon as he got this idea or this vision, whatever you want to say, come on, let's fight.

The nature of illusion in the world is that maya will never make us hopelessly frustrated. We'll get frustrated, but frustration for some time, and after that, come on, you can try that, you'll enjoy. And then we'll get attracted to that again.

So frustration alone will not lead us towards spirituality. Frustration can become a starting impetus, but sometimes frustration will go. So even when we get the reactions to our actions, still we may not become attracted to Krishna or inspired to practise spiritual life because of that alone.

We need something more, that is, some positive understanding of spiritual reality and attraction towards the positive. If we say that, dukkha le ma shashvatam, this world, that this world is a place of misery. There are some people, say like doctors, who see distress all the time, but that doesn't mean all doctors become devotees.

No. Okay, these patients are getting distress, that's unfortunate. I'll say lucky, I'll enjoy.

Just seeing distress or experiencing distress doesn't lead to renunciation. What is the difference between frustration and renunciation? It's primarily in our desire. Frustration means I want it, but I can't get it.

Renunciation means I don't want it. So when circumstances force us to give up some desire, that kind of giving up doesn't last for long. When I was doing youth outreach, so one day one young boy, college student, he came and said, I want to become a brahmachari.

He said, by next Monday, I'll be finalising. He had not been a very serious devotee, not practising very seriously also. Then I asked him, what is it that inspired, what is it that made you want to become a brahmachari? He said, you know, I have proposed to a girl and she is going to respond by Sunday.

If she says no, then I'll become a brahmachari. Now, this just frustration in a particular relationship is not the basis for renunciation. Tomorrow some other relationship will promise itself.

Or tomorrow, even in the renounced order, one may meet with some frustrations. Where will one go? So we need to actually get some positive attraction towards Krishna. Without that, we'll not be able to sustain.

And Duryodhana, so many of his schemes became frustrated again and again and again. But he never changed. Because there was nothing positive within him.

Just the negative desire was there, it got frustrated, again it somehow found some encouragement somewhere, went on. When our desire is very strong to enjoy, then even experience doesn't teach. It is said that experience is the best teacher.

And a fool learns in no other way. But when we become very attached, we become more foolish than a fool. Because at least a fool learns by experience, we don't learn even by experience.

Suppose we are in a desert and we see something which looks like water. And we rush there. We put our hands and we put our mouth, drink water and find this burning sand, it's a mirage.

Spit it out. What is this? Just feel angered, betrayed, frustrated. Even if I understand this was a mirage, still what will happen, I look up and I see another mirage.

I think maybe that is not a mirage. Maybe there will be water over there. So frustration means, I try to drink water, I get frustrated.

But renunciation means, okay, all these are mirages. I want to find out where there is an oasis and I will go there alone. So how do we know what is a mirage and what is an oasis? That requires some education.

That requires some knowledge. So in spiritual life, we may sometimes have a lot of desires. Sometimes we may get frustrated in the fulfilment of our desires.

And sometimes because of that frustration, we start practising spiritual life intensely. Whatever way we are practising spiritual life, that is okay. The important thing is that we need to recognise that we have to cultivate spiritual knowledge and we have to cultivate some devotional attraction to Krishna.

Only by that we will be able to move onwards steadily towards Him. So then after that, I will skip some parts here. But two main incidents happen in between that the Pandavas go into Aghyatvas.

And while they go into Aghyatvas, Duryodhana tries frantically to find the Pandavas. But he is not able to locate them. They are in Virat.

And then eventually, when they are found, by that time one year has got over. And then Arjuna single-handedly defeats all the Kauravas. After that, the marriage between Abhimanyu and Virat's daughter Uttara is performed.

And Drupada also comes over there. Drupada as Brahmin goes as a messenger of peace. And then Sanjaya comes on behalf of Dhritarashtra.

To and fro negotiations keep happening. But the Kauravas are not ready to give the Pandavas their kingdom back. And Krishna himself goes.

This is actually the main place where we will see a direct interaction on a major scale between Duryodhana and Krishna. In the Mahabharata, the Pandavas are the primary heroes. Krishna keeps coming and the Pandavas are dependent on Krishna.

So it's clear that Krishna is God. But the Pandavas are the heroes. And there are interactions between the Pandavas and the Kauravas much more than between Krishna and Duryodhana.

When Krishna goes as the Shanti Duta, it's an extraordinary gesture in itself. Normally, if somebody wants to petition peace, at that time we see some person, on the lower level of the hierarchy. Recently there was some tension between India and China on the Doklam border.

So at that time, India sent their security head or somebody, secretary of state for security or security chief or whatever. And he went there and he had some negotiations. Now suppose, when the standoff is there, and the Indian Prime Minister goes as a peace envoy.

Now if the most powerful person goes, that means that this is a very very serious issue and there is a very serious attempt to try to seek peace. When Krishna goes to Astinapur, at that time he chooses to stay in Vidura's house. Before he comes there, the Kauravas have a meeting.

And Duryodhana comes up with a plan. He says, we will offer the best hospitality to Krishna. Now, Duryodhana is at one level very good at, what you could say, political messaging.

In today's language, that means, that Duryodhana, although he did many vicious activities, in terms of the public eye, he always tried to maintain a good image. So for example, in his kingdom, where the palaces were there, he arranged that Dushasan had a bigger palace than himself. Dushasan's palace was more attractive than his own palace.

By the way, he tried to show that, you know, I am not power hungry. Actually, just see my younger brother, I love him so much. I had a bigger palace for him.

Similarly, when he wanted to win Karna over, he gave Karna the king of Anga. And Karna said, I am so grateful to you. What can I do for you? Karna said, your friendship, Duryodhana said, your friendship is all that I ask from you.

For Karna at that time, he had been given a kingdom and then another king is asking him for his friendship. So that he will have lifelong. And those words came back to haunt Karna afterwards.

So Duryodhana was expert at winning people over to his cause. So whether it is Dhritarashtra or whether it is Karna. So he thought that I will win Krishna over also.

He did not know that Krishna was another category entirely. So he said, we will offer him the best feast, the best hospitality and we will please him so much that he will come over to our cause. So Bhishma told Vasudev, the Mahabharata refers to Krishna by the name Vasudev quite frequently.

He says Vasudev will not be deceived by this. He sees intentions and your intentions are ignoble. So your plan will be thwarted.

When Krishna came in his chariot, the Kauravas were there to receive him. And Duryodhana told that we have arranged a big feast for you in the palace of Dushasana. So Krishna said, I will not come for the feast.

It's like you've gone for a peace proposal, but Krishna is taking some stand very strongly at that time. So I'll be staying with Duryodhana. Why will you not take food with us? So Krishna said, one person eats at the house of another person in two situations.

One is either if you are hungry or second is if there is affection between the two of them. He says, I am not hungry. And because you are so antagonistic to Pandavas, there is no affection between us.

And Krishna went away. That night when he was staying with Vidura, Vidura asked him that Krishna, why have you come here? Why are you seeking peace? You know that Duryodhana is not going to listen. And Duryodhana had also told publicly, not publicly to everyone, but in the assembly, he had said that I'll try to win Krishna over and if I can't win Krishna over, then I'll have him arrested.

And if he's arrested, then the odds will shift drastically. Bhishma was infuriated. He said, it is against the eternal codes of morality to ever do any harm to a messenger.

And what to speak of a messenger like Vasudev, who is the well-wisher of everyone? What harm has he ever done to you? Your attempts will be totally frustrated. You can never arrest Vasudev. But I don't want to even hear of such evil ideas.

He just marched away from there, walked out of there. Vidura knew what had happened. Vidura's greatest fear was at that same assembly where Draupadi had been dishonoured, where the Pandavas had been dispossessed.

Now, Krishna might be dishonoured over there. He said, why Krishna, why have you come here? So Krishna said, I know Duryodhana is not going to listen. He's obstinate and he's lost.

But I want the world to know that my devotees, the Pandavas, did not cause this war. They did everything possible to avoid the war. And the war happened not because of them, but in spite of them.

Sometimes when we want something to be done, we say, I have done everything humanly possible to do it. The Pandavas did everything, not just everything humanly possible, but even everything divinely possible. Krishna himself came over there.

The next morning, when the assembly started, Krishna's speech at that time is amazing. Normally there are four ways of persuasion. They are called as Saam, Daam, Danda and Bheda.

Saam is, okay, you know, both of us have common interests. Let's pursue our common interests. Why should we have a conflict? Daam is, okay, you want something? I'll provide you this.

Let's avoid the war. Danda is, if you don't agree, we'll punish you. Danda.

Bheda is that if in the opposite party there is somebody who is very, very, very inimical, then create dissension among them. And then those who are more favourable, get them on our side and sideline the hardline people on the other side. So these are four broad strategies when there is a confrontation to resolve them.

So Krishna actually uses all four of them. And first he starts by saying that the Pandavas and Kauravas belong to the same dynasty. Generation upon generation, this family has lived together.

Why should they fight against each other? The Pandavas have won the whole earth by their virtue and they are ready to share it with the Kauravas. Or Dhritarashtra, he spoke to Dhritarashtra because he was the official head of the state. He says, if you have the Pandavas by your side, they will serve you as if they are your sons.

And with them by your side, nobody in the world will ever be able to threaten you. Give them their kingdom back. So he spoke elaborately on these lines.

Actually this whole, this conversation itself is a whole class in itself. Beautifully, I am just going on broad lines over here. Then Dhritarashtra said, Oh Krishna, I agree with everything you say.

But my son Duryodhana does not listen to me. You please address him. So it's like a public admission by the king that I am not in control and my son is in control.

So many times in politics, what happens is there is one person in the chair and there is somebody else in power. So people come and negotiate with the person in the chair, but that person has no power. Somebody else is in the power and they do everything else like that.

So they do what they want to do. So when India and Pakistan have hostilities, often India negotiates with the Pakistani government. The democratically elected government.

In Pakistan, the democratically elected government is just like a figurehead. The real power is with the army and they are intrinsically, viscerally hostile to India. So now here Dhritarashtra is just putting the cards on the table.

He is saying, actually you persuade Duryodhana. And Krishna starts speaking to Duryodhana. And then he says, oh Duryodhana, you own the kingdom.

Actually you have, Ashtadapur is a flourishing kingdom. And he knows that Duryodhana is not at all interested. So what he does is, he talks about Danda.

You think that you will be able to fight against Pandavas and win? Arjuna alone defeated all of you together. Arjuna has gone to the heavens in this very body and got celestial weapons. All the Pandavas have taken vows to destroy you and your brothers.

And he starts using Danda. So then, as he paints a horrific picture of how the Kauravas will be destroyed. And then when this picture has been painted, then now Krishna uses Veda.

Oh Kauravas, if you do not stop Duryodhana, then he will cause the destruction of the whole dynasty. Stop him right now. Krishna's speech is so persuasive that Dushyasana turns to Duryodhana.

He says, oh Duryodhana, listen to what Keshava is saying. He is speaking for our best. Duryodhana is furious to see his younger brother speaking against him.

And then he says, Duryodhana, if you don't listen to him, I will personally tie you up and hand you over to Krishna. Duryodhana is infuriated. He just walks out of the assembly.

Then his remaining 98 brothers are there. They look at Duryodhana, Dushyasana, Duryodhana, Dushyasana. One by one they all walk out.

Now Dushyasana is left all alone. He looks around. None of his brothers are there.

He looks around. He also walks out of that. And then Duryodhana is very cunning.

Now Dushyasana has already publicly spoken against him. He could very well have castigated Duryodhana. Duryodhana could have castigated Dushyasana.

How can you betray me like this? And he knows that Dushyasana will be very apprehensive. Dushyasana comes there. Then as he quietly sneaks into the room, Duryodhana is speaking to his other brothers.

He says, Krishna is very cunning. By his sweet speech, he can deceive anyone. As if he just noticed.

Dushyasana, isn't it? Just see, he deceived even you, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, he deceived me. In this way, he wins Dushyasana back over to him. Dushyasana feels Duryodhana will shout at me.

But he is putting the blame on Krishna. How cunning Krishna is. Actually, Krishna is not cunning.

Krishna is compassionate. Then when Duryodhana walks out, Krishna again turns to the Kuru Assembly and says, just see this insolent prince. While he was being addressed to, he just walked out.

He has no culture. He has no dharma. He will destroy everyone.

Stop him. Dhritarashtra says, please call Gandhari. Maybe she can persuade him.

Gandhari speaks to him. But he doesn't listen. So Krishna has tried Sama.

He has tried Bheda. He has tried Danda. Now finally he says Dharma.

He says that if you want the kingdom, just keep the kingdom. Just give the Pandavas five villages to rule for themselves. That's how they can do their Kshatriya duty of ruling.

And Duryodhana insolently refuses. There is a refusal also in different ways. There can be refusal of a particular request or there can be refusal and rejection of the person itself.

Suppose we invite somebody to come for a programme. And they say, actually I have to go here. I have to do this.

So I can't come for the programme. They are refusing it. But somebody says, invite them for a programme.

He says, even if I die, even my corpse will not come for your programme. If somebody says like that, then that is not just a refusal of the invitation. That is like a rejection of the person itself.

That means in principle, I am not interested. Not just in practise. There is no coming together.

So Duryodhana offers Krishna that kind of rejection. What does he say? I will not give the Pandavas enough land to even put the tip of a needle through. That means he is essentially saying Krishna, you are wasting your time.

There will be no peace offer at all that we consider. After this, when Krishna turns around and he points out his insolence to the Kauravas, then the Kauravas start also realising that Duryodhana is going beyond all limits. At that time, Duryodhana feels he has had enough.

He says, this Keshava will destroy all of us. Before he does that, let us destroy him. Arrest him.

He has got hundreds of soldiers from all directions. He is rushing in as if it is a war. They come with their weapons.

And then Krishna just laughs. He laughs. Suddenly his form expands.

He rises, towers high into the sky. And from his eyes, fierce light as if the sun where there comes out. Sparks are coming out from his body.

In the sky, lightning and thunder bolts are moving. The earth starts shaking as if there are earthquakes. Cold stormy winds started blowing outside.

And the sight of Krishna in that majestic form is so awesome that the soldiers just fall back. And first they fall back looking at the stupendous form. And then just get up and run away from there.

As Krishna reveals his mystic form, by which he sees the Devatas and the Nagas and the Charanas, all celestial beings are there within him. Duryodhana, he sees that his plan is totally baffled. And he runs away from there also.

He flees from there. And then Krishna resumes his normal form and he departs. Next morning, when Krishna is about to depart, Duryodhana, he is speaking to Dhritarashtra, he says, Krishna, they are trying to tell him that Krishna is God, he showed his universal form.

He says, actually, there are so many people who can show so many forms. I can also show forms. He just caught us by surprise at that time.

But when the war takes place, let's see what form he shows. No such magic will work. We will defeat the Pandavas.

And we will possess the kingdom. So he remains as insolent as ever. And then finally Krishna departs.

Now here, we could say that in this encounter between Krishna, who is God, and Duryodhana, who is just a soul, Krishna fails. So can God fail in something? God is omnipotent. So if God is omnipotent, he is supreme, then how can something that he wants to do fail? So actually, when things happen in this world, there are three things which need to be considered.

God's will, our will, and evil. God's will, our will, and evil. That means that Krishna, by his arrangement, has given all of us free will.

And by our free will, we can choose certain things. So of course, our free will is not unlimited. The extent of our free will depends on our past karma.

So for example, some person may become a Hitler. Hitler, by his past karma, was meant to become a powerful general. But he used that power to cause mayhem and destruction for millions.

So we get certain Kshetra. Kshetra is power or sphere of influence. And as long as by our past karma we have that sphere of influence, we can do what we want, within limits.

Hitler could not conquer the whole world, but he could conquer significant parts of the world. Europe at least, Europe and Russia, Africa also. Now here, so there is God's will.

God's will is supreme, no doubt. In this world, Krishna has given us free will. And by our free will, we can choose to act.

How much we will succeed in that acting, that depends on our past karma, which determines our area of influence. So Duryodhana, by his past karma, had the power to be a powerful prince. Now how he used that princely power is up to him.

Krishna's supreme control will eventually be seen when his karmic quota runs out. And then his Kshetra will be lost. So there is God's will, and by God's will, there is free will.

And now what is evil? Evil doesn't, in the Christian tradition, they have the idea that there is something called Satan, who prompts people to do wrong things. In the Vedic tradition, the understanding is that there is no such one being as Satan, there is Maya. But Maya is not herself evil.

Maya is actually, the Bhagavatam says, Vaishnavi janamohini. She is a devotee, but her service is to test the living beings. And for testing them, she may sometimes, or most of the times, she may promise them pleasures along the wrong paths.

Now what about the Asuras, who encourage and empower Duryodhana? They are also not exactly like Satan. Because Satan is one being who is considered the source of all evil. The Asuras are also souls like Duryodhana, but they are colluding, they are by some mystic powers cooperating to use him to fulfil their desires.

So the understanding is evil is not some one particular being. But does that mean evil doesn't exist only? Is evil only in the minds of people? Yes, that is true. But even when we say something is only in the minds of people, that does not mean that it does not have existence.

It's a subtle philosophical point. I'll try to explain this in a simple way. Anger, is it an emotion or is it a thing? It is an emotion.

Lust, is it an emotion or is it a thing? Is it an emotion or is it a thing? Thing. Not an emotion? Sorry? Good one. It is an emotion created by a thing.

That's a… You have explained what I was going to explain. You have summarised. Yeah, I'll give this example.

So Krishna talks about kama as being situated in the body. He says senses in the mind and the intelligence, lust is situated. So what this means is Krishna is not just talking about lust or anger or greed.

The same analysis applies to all of them, to envy also. He is not just talking about them as emotions which we feel. They are definitely emotions that we feel.

If we consider say lust. Now, if there is a boy or a girl who is below puberty, in their case, even if they see something alluring, they don't feel any desire. But when they come to a particular age, then they start feeling that desire.

So what is exactly happening over here? Or somebody gets angry. Now some people, when they are provoked, they just get so angry. Some people don't feel anger at all.

They stay calm. So why is that? It's an emotion. But it's also an emotion that is more probable in some people and less probable in some people.

Like alcoholics. Some people, they get a desire for alcohol. I want to drink.

But some people don't get any desire for alcohol. Why is that? Because whatever we desire and act on, that creates impressions in our mind. And those impressions prompt us towards that desire once again.

So in a non-alcoholic, because those impressions are not there, so desire doesn't come up only. In an alcoholic, because those impressions are there, the desire comes up and it comes very forcefully. So in that sense, there is God's will, there is free will, and when you say there is evil.

What do you mean by evil? Evil is the impressions that are created in the mind. And because those impressions are created in the mind, that misuse of the free will becomes more and more probable. It's like if we, on our computer or on our phone, we have visited a particular website many times.

So if I have visited say indianews.com, suppose there is a website like that, I have visited that many times. Now today I'll go on my browser and I want to visit isconnews.com. But as soon as I type I, what will appear as the autocomplete? indianews.com So what has happened, by my past choices, that has been stored there as a preference. And that will come as an autocomplete.

Even if my intention is something different. So when we talk about, so my free will is, I want to go to the net and I want to see a particular website, I want to go to isconnews.com. But the evil, the default setting that has come from the past is, that indianews.com will come first. So like that, evil is more like the default, the default setting that is put in us, because our past repeated choices.

Because another way to use the word default setting is, another way for the word default setting is simply our attachments. Attachments means, whatever we think of by default. Now if you want to know what are my attachments, we can look at, what do I think of when I am not thinking of anything.

Where do my thoughts go to when I am not having any conscious focus on doing something. That can reveal our attachments. So when Krishna is apparently thwarted by Duryodhana, it's not that Duryodhana's will is greater than Krishna's will, but by Krishna's arrangement, Krishna has given the soul free will.

And if a soul has repeatedly misused the free will, then that accumulated impression of the misuse of the free will stays in the consciousness as the evil. And that evil prompts the soul to misuse the free will again. So even when Krishna personally came, he rejected that.

So for us, if we see from a devotional perspective, Krishna knew that all those impressions were there in Duryodhana and it was extremely improbable that Duryodhana was going to accept the peace proposal. But Krishna was not concerned about his reputation. When he went on a mission, was he successful or not? Krishna was concerned about his devotees.

He wanted to make sure that the world knew that they tried their best to avoid the war. So for us, rather than making it seem as if Krishna failed, we see that not as a lacking of Krishna's omnipotence, we see it as a demonstration of Krishna's munificence, Krishna's mercifulness, that he was ready to even court disgrace, defeat, failure just so that his devotees' good name would be maintained. And more importantly for us, if we can learn from something from Duryodhana, that actually even God cannot make us change our free will.

Only we have to change it on our own. Krishna comes before us as a deity, Krishna comes before us as the holy name, Krishna can come before us personally also, if he chooses to. But that is no guarantee that it will lead to the change of heart.

The change of heart is something which we have to consciously choose. Duryodhana did not choose that. Even when Krishna came and negotiated and Krishna explained, there was no change.

Bhagavata also has a similar mood when Krishna speaks with Arjuna and then Krishna is also discussing with Arjuna. And at the end, Krishna tells Arjuna, Vimrishshaita dasheshena, a thejstra could not deliberate and decide what you want to do. So Krishna is also throwing the ball at Arjuna's court and saying, you decide.

Arjuna, of course, surrenders to Krishna. Karishe vachinam tava. So within us, there is a Duryodhana like tendency, which doesn't want to surrender.

But there is also Arjuna like tendency. And depending on which tendency we nourish, whom we associate with, that tendency will get nourished. What we hear according to that tendency will get nourished.

What desires we contemplate on, according to that tendency will be nourished. And the purpose of hearing scriptures, the purpose of chanting and practising bhakti is to nourish the Arjuna like tendency within us. And sometimes scripture teaches through positive examples of characters who surrender to Krishna and are glorified.

And sometimes scripture teaches us through negative examples, where somebody, how their obstinacy leads to their destruction. So what actually caused this obstinacy? I'll conclude with this point. What caused Duryodhana's obstinacy? That even when Krishna came there, why couldn't he accept? Krishna's proposal was so reasonable.

Just give five villages. Our greatest weakness is not our lust or anger or greed or envy or pride or illusion. Our greatness weakness is our unwillingness to believe that Krishna loves us.

Our unwillingness to believe that Krishna is our well-wisher. So if somehow we can develop that faith that Krishna is our well-wisher and Krishna wants our best for us, then even if it is sometimes difficult to do what Krishna wants us to do, that is fine. Prabhupada writes in a Bhagavad Gita purport that sometimes it may not be possible for us to implement what Krishna is telling us.

So there is in principle and in practise. In practise we may struggle to apply what Krishna is telling, but in principle we accept it. That you are Krishna, you are my well-wisher and I want to do what you are telling me to do.

I am unable to do it, but I'll keep trying. So if somehow by the association of devotees, by the hearing of the pastimes of Krishna, we can develop this faith that Krishna is my well-wisher. When Krishna is telling me to do something, Krishna is giving his guidelines and scriptures, they are for my good.

Sometimes in practise we may struggle and even fail. But that is not as important as in principle what our attitude is. Of course, the principle has to be translated into practise according to our capacity.

But sometimes when we keep failing in practise, then we have to look and see, am I actually convinced about the principle? I am trying to do this, I am not able to do this. I may think I just lack willpower. But it may not be willpower, it may just be a lack of understanding.

Rather than trying to simply work on willpower, I'll make a stronger resolution and I'll do this. A stronger resolution and I'll do this. But still we keep struggling and failing.

Instead of that, we focus on strengthening our devotional connection with Krishna. Trying to strengthen our appreciation of Krishna. Trying to strengthen our conviction that Krishna is our well-wisher.

If that is taken care of, then whatever particular thing that will be tempting us, resisting it will become much easier. So rather than focussing on trying to battle particular Anarthas, Duryodhana represents obstinacy, Ramana represents lust, Duryodhana represents envy or obstinacy. Whichever Anartha whoever represents.

At different times in our life, different Anarthas, different lower qualities may trouble us. But we need to do specific things to deal with them. Like yesterday we talked about protecting ourselves from triggers.

But more importantly is rather than fighting against this problem, that problem, that problem, we go to the root. The root is our lack of faith that Krishna is our well-wisher, that Krishna loves us. No matter how we are, still Krishna loves us and Krishna wants the best for us.

So that faith can come, from there everything else will emerge. That was Shri Prabhupada's unique ability that people who had never heard about Krishna, somehow Prabhupada infused within them the faith that Krishna exists, Krishna cares. If you just try to serve Him, He will help you.

So by associating with Shri Prabhupada, through his books, by associating with the followers of Shri Prabhupada, if somehow we can get this faith that Krishna is our well-wisher, then whatever reluctance, whatever obstinacy, whatever misdirection of our consciousness is there, that will all get overcome. And the Duryodhana within us will get weakened, whereas the Arjuna within us gets strengthened. And just as Arjuna attained an ultimate victory, similarly in the battle within our heart, against our lower desires, against our lower side that is there, that battle we will win.

Sometimes when a battle is very difficult to win, if they say this is mission impossible, this is impossible to do. Sometimes our fighting against our anarthas, our mind, our senses, it may seem like mission impossible. But actually if we are connected with Krishna, if we are serving Krishna and if we are determined to stay fixed in serving Krishna in principle, then it is not mission impossible.

It is mission unstoppable. It is mission unstoppable because nothing can stop Krishna. Yes, our anarthas may keep making us go off in the wrong directions, but we'll come back.

Go off in the wrong direction, we'll come back. Krishna's mercy is such that by His mercy, all our conditionings will be overcome. And just as Arjuna had formidable obstacles in the Kurukshetra war, but by Krishna's mercy, he overcame all of them.

By the same mercy of Krishna, we too can overcome whatever obstacles come and we can attain the ultimate spiritual victory. So I'll summarise. I spoke about Duryodhana's obstinacy and especially how his attempt to humiliate the Pandavas ended in his own humiliation.

The nature of envy was he was not satisfied with his prosperity and the Pandavas' poverty. He wanted them to see his prosperity and he wanted himself to see their poverty. So the nature of the anarthas like lust, anger, greed, envy, pride and illusion is even if we succeed, we don't become happy because there's always something more that we'll keep wanting.

And he was so humiliated when he was arrested and released by Arjuna, he wanted to commit suicide. But when the Dhanavas and the Aityas gave him some hope, he immediately grabbed it. So we discussed about how frustration doesn't lead to renunciation.

It's only when there is realisation, only when there is devotion, then renunciation comes. Material energy never makes us hopelessly frustrated. It makes us frustrated but then gives us some hope.

Frustration means I can't get it. But renunciation means I don't want it. And we can come to I don't want it only when we want something higher in life.

So that's why we need to strengthen our devotion. And Duryodhana, when Krishna came as Shantidut, Krishna used Saam, Daam, Danda and Bheda. Reconciliation, reward, retribution and dissension, all four strategies used.

But Duryodhana was adamant and he, in one sense, caused Krishna to fail. But Krishna, it is not a doubt of Krishna's omnipotence, rather it is munificence that for the sake of his devotees, he is ready to court even apparent failure. So when things happen in the world, it is not just always God's will.

What are the three factors? God's will, our will and evil. So how much our will can act and for how long, that depends on what kind of karma we may have done. So based on our karma, if we have a particular Kshetra, then something which even God doesn't want, that may be allowed to happen.

Just like Duryodhana, Duryodhana was able to reject Krishna's proposal. And he was able to continue his insolence, but only for a short time. Eventually it ended and his karma ended.

And evil means it's not a personified being, but evil is the accumulation of the impressions that we have created by our past choices, which make us forcefully repeat those choices. So we have Duryodhana within us and Arjuna within us. Krishna spoke to both of them.

Arjuna's heart changed and he surrendered. Duryodhana did not. So we, to the extent we can develop the faith that Krishna is our well-wisher, that Krishna loves us as we are and wants to elevate us from where we are.

To that extent, we will open our heart to Krishna and by the strength of the connection with Krishna, whatever specific weaknesses we have, we'll overcome them. By the connection with Krishna, that which may seem like mission impossible, overcoming our inner lower side, that will become mission unstoppable. Thank you very much.

Are there any questions? Do we have time for questions? Thank you. So how much are we in touch with our souls? How much do our soul's desires actually become manifest at our level? Yes, at one level we can say without the soul, no desire is possible. Because the soul is the source of consciousness.

So suppose, say somebody, a young person goes to a, a very influenceable young person goes to a party. And now that person may have gone there, goes to a hotel, may have gone to eat some healthy snack. Somebody says, you know, okay, let's take this, let's take this chocolate, let's take this drink, let's take this, let's take that.

And then one person, second person, third person keep proposing. And then in that, in the pressure of all those people proposing this, proposing this, this person forgets why I came here, what I wanted to eat. That person just keeps consuming other things.

So now, of course, that person is choosing, that person is eating. But there are so many other people proposing and persuading that that person's own desires are forgotten. So like that, the soul, when it comes in the body, at that time, the soul is a source of consciousness.

The soul is the person who actually chooses. But there are so many different voices clamouring for attention within the consciousness. Come on, eat this, touch this, watch this.

Because of that, the soul's voice, the soul forgets oneself entirely. What I truly want, we forget that. And this happens sometimes, not just spiritually, even materially.

Sometimes people around us do this, do this, do this. What is really important for us, we forget that because of just the social pressure around us. So to the extent we cultivate spiritual knowledge and to the extent we cultivate spiritual awareness by becoming somewhat distanced or detached from the worldly things around us, to that extent we can become aware of our soul and the soul's voice.

Krishna uses the word in 2.45 in the Bhagavad Gita. He uses the word ātmavān. Now the word is very interesting.

Like we have the word dhanavān. Bhagavān is the possessor of opulences. Dhanavān is the possessor of wealth.

Jñānavān is the possessor of knowledge. Now ātmavān would mean what? The possessor of the soul. Now if I am the soul, how can I be the possessor of the soul? What does it mean? Actually, possessor of the soul means that we possess spiritual awareness.

The word soul is sometimes used literally and sometimes used metaphorically. To refer to our essence, to refer to our values, most important values. To refer to our core being.

Like in the Bible there is that well known saying, What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world but loses his eternal soul? Now if the soul is eternal, how do we lose it? What it means is that we lose spiritual awareness. We get consumed by material consciousness. So Krishna is saying over here that when we become detached from worldly things, then we become spiritually aware.

So ātmavān, at that time we become possessors of the soul. So presently, because we are materially attached, so our soul's voice may not be heard right now. But as we become purified, as we become detached and purified, then we become more and more spiritually conscious.

So our soul becomes more and more conscious of the desires that are core to it and they start getting expressed. Now does the soul feel pain? Yes and no. The soul by nature is sacchitananda, is joyful.

Ananda, joy is a characteristic of the soul. So in that sense we can say the soul never feels pain. But the soul's essential energy is consciousness and wherever the soul's energy is projected, wherever our consciousness is projected, that's what we experience.

So suppose a child is sitting comfortably at home in an AC room with the mother nearby. The child is not in any pain at all. He is comfortable.

But if that child is watching a horror movie and is glued to that, then the child may be shivering, trembling, crying, screaming, even fainting. Now is the child in pain or not in pain? Is the child in fear or not in fear? Well, for all practical purposes, the child is experiencing fear. The child is experiencing misery.

So similarly the soul is essentially spiritual. Purushah prakriti sthohi, bhunte prakriti jaan gunaan, karanam guna sangosya, sadasad yoni janmasu. Krishna says that when the soul's consciousness or the soul gets projected, soul gets situated in matter, then because of the desire to enjoy material things, the soul undergoes good and bad in this world.

So the child is comfortable at home, but because of the desire to enjoy what is going on TV, the child gets subjected to the misery of watching that horror movie. So in the ultimate sense, we can say the soul doesn't feel pain. But in the practical sense, when we are having pain, we know it's not just an illusion.

The pain is there. And we need to work to deal with the pain at a practical level. And we also need to work to disentangle ourselves from the illusion, by which we can become disentangle ourselves from the attachment, by which we will realise our joyful nature.

Did I answer your question? Okay. So, yes, Guru. We have free will, but then our free will is also very limited.

And that's the first question. And the second question is related to, like Guru Dant, he has the free will. He has got free will, but then his free will is also because he has that envy, and he has that greed to have a kingdom for himself and all that.

So then, in the sense that his free will is also very, very, can we say that also limited. He also has some good qualities that you mentioned earlier that Arjuna, he said to Arjuna that future he won't have any boon to. Okay.

Good question. Yeah. So, our free will, is it limited? He said, Duryodhana, if he had envy, did that limit his free will? But then he also had some good qualities, because he promised something to Arjuna and he gave that.

Okay. See, our free will can be limited and can still be powerful. What does that mean? Say somebody is alcoholic.

Now, that person just cannot live without alcohol. But suppose that person is also a millionaire. By the past karma, that person has phenomenal amount of wealth now.

Now, in the pursuit of alcohol, that person may, that alcoholic may travel to different parts of the world to get the best wine, or that person may decide that if anybody is stopping me from drinking, I will destroy that person. They can do within. So, by our past karma, we get a particular arena within which we can use our free will.

Means that much we can influence. Now, how we influence? The two things, you know, what we can influence and how much we can influence. So, what we can influence, sorry, how much we can influence and how we influence? What is the scope on which our power can exert? And in how, in what way do we exert our power? So, like, as I said, Hitler was meant to become a powerful ruler.

That was why his past karma, he was there. But what did he do? Use that power for a terrible purpose. So, Duryodhana, we can say that he had envy.

So, in a sense, his choice was limited. But still, when everybody was giving him good advice. So, there is a default conditioning which may come up within us.

But that doesn't mean we don't have free will. Even an alcoholic has free will. The alcoholic can decide, I can't give up drinking.

But instead of drinking four times a day, I'll drink three times a day. Instead of drinking, say, very intoxicating forms of alcohol, I'll drink less intoxicating forms of alcohol. Whatever be our situation, we do have free will.

And then the more we use our free will rightly, the more our capacity to use it rightly increases. The more we use it wrongly, the more our capacity to access it decreases. But this is how much we can choose within a particular set of desires.

But while choosing that desire or while working to fulfil that desire, how much power we have, what all we can do for fulfilling that desire, that is determined by our past karma. If a poor person wants to drink, what will that person do? Maybe, you know, rob some neighbour or something like that. A wealthy person wants to drink, the wealthy person can get a wine imported from another part of the world.

So, our free will is at one level limited by our past karma. That means what all we can do and what all we can't do. So, even if I have, even if I desire to fly in the sky, if I'm in a human body, I can't fly in the sky directly.

So, that's the limitation. Now, I may decide I'll get a plane, I'll fly in the sky. I can do that.

But if while flying in the plane, somebody, say, drinks too much and somebody smokes in the flight, then there'll be consequences of that. So, they have the karma to get into the plane, they have the karma to fly, but they smoke there, then they have the consequences of that also. So, the scope is what is limited.

So, our free will, to summarise, our free will is always free. But how much that free will we will be able to access, that is determined by our past ways in which we use our free will. And when we use that free will, how much we'll be able to influence changes in the outer world.

That will be determined by our past karma and its reactions. So, right now, I have the free will to speak. So, I can speak in English, maybe I can speak fluently, but I can't speak, say, Mandarin or some other language.

So, I have the free will to speak in a particular way, in a particular level of fluency or whatever. But while I have this power, what I speak is up to me. I can choose to speak about Krishna, I can choose to speak about some other subject.

Now, if I keep choosing to speak about Krishna, then speaking about Krishna will become more and more natural for me. That's what will more easily come out of my mind. So, the free will gets habituated to being used that way.

But some people may want to speak about Krishna, but they don't really have speaking fluency. They'll speak, but they'll not speak very fluently. So, somebody may want to sing and they can sing so nicely.

They can sing about Krishna nicely, they can sing about worldly things nicely. But what they sing about is up to them. So, you could say that the arena for the free will, if there is a pole on which a cow is tied, and around that there is a grass.

So, now how much the cow can graze and how much grass the cow can eat, that is determined by the radius of the rope with which the cow is tied. Within that, say, in this side there is a temple. The cow can be on this side and the cow can hear more spiritual vibrations, can, you know, more devotees can come and take that.

So, the cow could go there also and eat on the other side. The rope is there long enough. So, how long the rope is, that is determined by our past karma.

No, sorry, not how long the rope is. What is the nature of the grass around it, that is determined by the past karma. But depending on how we use our free will, the length of the rope can become shorter or smaller.

When a person is not addicted, say, a person has by past karma million dollars. There is like that much grass over there on the ground. Now, how that person will use the million dollars, that will be determined by, initially the person is not alcoholic, so they use anyway.

But as that person becomes more and more compulsively alcoholic, then they will use that million dollars just for alcohol. So, the scope of our free will is determined by our past karma. I mean, this is what all we can do.

But as we use our desires in a particular way, our choices may become limited or expanded. Depending on how we are choosing in this lifetime. Did I answer your question? So, we will stop here.

Thank you very much.