Emotionally intelligent spirituality 2 – Let immediate and ultimate solutions work cooperatively, not competitively

[Seminar at ISKCON, Melbourne, Australia]

Thank all of you for coming today evening and yesterday we discussed about emotionally healthy spirituality that I talked about how we don't work for our body or mind we don't work against our body or mind we work for Krishna with our body and mind just as we need to take care of our physical health so that we can focus on our spiritual health similarly we need to take care of our emotional health if something pains us too much physically we adjust so that the pain becomes minimum and we can focus on Krishna similarly if something emotionally disturbs us too much then we adjust so that we can focus on Krishna and when we are sharing Krishna Bhakti with others preaching means we make the emotions conducive to the reception of Krishna so preaching can mean comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comforted and then I talked also towards the end about how we cannot use a one size fit all formula for either sharing Krishna Bhakti with others or for applying to ourselves whatever a particular person's needs are they need to be accommodated and then we can move forward towards Krishna by the way how many of you were there for yesterday's talk oh yes ok a good number were not there so today I will speak on two main points about how we need to take responsibility for our spiritual advancement and secondly how we need to understand that there are different levels of causation for whatever happens and how we address things at different levels so whenever any particular thing happens in our life say if somebody falls sick and gets malaria now when that person gets malaria what is the cause of that oh there was some bacteria which came through a mosquito the mosquito must have bitten that's why the person got malaria that's true but then in the same house there might have been 5 people living and only one of them got malaria why is that they say oh this person has some low immunity but somebody else may be having lower immunity still they don't get the malaria so there is the immediate cause that is the person got malaria because they were a mosquito bit them but beyond the immediate cause there is a remote cause the remote cause is that all of us have done particular karmas in the past and the karmic reactions come upon us so the mosquito bit if I got malaria the mosquito bit me at a time when I was particularly vulnerable and that's how I got the malaria so it's my karmic reaction and beyond that the ultimate cause of all distress of everything that happens for that matter in the world is forgetfulness of Krishna it is because we have forgotten Krishna because we have become disconnected from Krishna that's why that's why we are trapped in the present world that we are in and here we undergo various situations so now when we understand this triple level causation then what do we address the immediate remote and ultimate cause so we address it at various levels so for example if somebody is sick if the person has got malaria then at the immediate level we try to take some treatment now along with that like we have Ayurveda or we have allopathy or we may have different kinds of medical treatments which can work to address it at an immediate level along with that we also understand that I have to ensure that I don't do further parakarma because that reaction will come someday or the other so we try to purify ourselves eventually stop doing bad karma the karmic reactions will not come back and ultimately we strive to remember Krishna we try to become devoted to Krishna by which we address the problem at an ultimate level a lot of confusion results if we mix up the solutions at different levels if we think the immediate solution is the ultimate solution that is a big problem because the nature of the world is that some distress or the other will come there is a prominent doctor who wrote a book about 50 years ago titled health in the 21st century and health in the 21st century the future of an illusion so his theme was although science has advanced a lot and through the scientific advancement one has we have cured many diseases from the past but we have new diseases that have come today we have brain degenerative diseases we have cancer and his point was that diseases are not simply something that you can cure with medicines diseases are results of the sociocultural situations that we live in so the black play was not eliminated simply because we discovered a vaccine it is also because the nature of human civilisation changed and they are not so much exposed to rats and rats also did not have so much facility to grow so with our best medicines we don't have much cure for HIV because today's sociocultural, biocultural environment such that HIV is very resilient no matter what treatment we find it mutates in some other way so if we work only at the immediate level and think that the immediate solution is the only solution then we get ourselves into trouble we make our we think that we are solving problems but we are not solving problems most of modern science and technology work at the level of immediate solutions and often the promise is this is the ultimate solution but it is not so on the other hand sometimes we may work only at the level of ultimate solutions and we may think that the ultimate solution is all that I need to do and I don't work at the level of immediate solutions at all suppose I wake up in the morning and I chant Hare Krishna with full attention 64 rounds will that 64 rounds of chanting remove the bad breath from my mouth which comes when I wake up that's not why I chant Hare Krishna there is a toothbrush for that I don't expect the Hare Krishna to do the work of a toothbrush I will have to brush my teeth as I chant Hare Krishna so Hare Krishna Mahamantra will deal with the problem at the ultimate level just as the immediate should not be made into the ultimate similarly the ultimate should not be made into the immediate the two are different levels of solutions and both solutions have their place when Krishna spoke the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna and thereafter Arjuna fought the Kurukshetra war and won the war now did Arjuna win the war with the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita or did he win the war with the knowledge of archery that he had learned from Drona and he had mastered throughout his life which knowledge was it it was both it was the knowledge of the Bhagavad Gita gave him the purpose of why to fight it gave him the inspiration to pursue his duty but the practical skills of how to fight he learned from his archery skills the Bhagavad Gita is not there to teach him archery skills so there is the immediate, there is the remote and there is the ultimate and if we mistake the immediate to be the ultimate that can be as problematic as it is when the ultimate is mistaken to be the immediate there are some extremist Christian organisations in America which claim that if you just surrender to Jesus if you have faith that Jesus is your saviour then by that faith and surrender you will be freed from all sins and if you are freed from all sins means that you will become free from all problems and the converse side of this is that if you are not freed from all problems that means you are not really surrendered that means you don't have enough faith so for example there are some people, some youth this is a tragic real life story so so when this happened they said that if you have some problems with the eyes if you have some problems with the eyes because of which you need some glasses then if you surrender to Jesus your eyes will be healed, Jesus made the blind people see so what to speak of somebody who has little vision they should be able to see and they tell that you stop wearing glasses and these poor students they are not able to read without glasses have faith you will be able to see if they are not able to see they told that oh that means you don't have faith have faith you will be able to see now this problem became so serious that now the US government has passed a law that any religious system of belief interferes with people's medical health then that religious belief system can be outlawed so now it's a valid governmental concern if people can't see, if somebody is driving a car and they can't see what is next to them say have faith you will see that's ridiculous so the immediate and the ultimate cannot be mixed up the immediate solution works at one level the ultimate solution works at another level when we practise bhakti Srila Prabhupada worked at various levels Srila Prabhupada he was transcendental, he was completely absorbed in Krishna still he took care of his health he worked extremely hard, sleeping for a few hours but still he took time out for a massage everyday, he went for a morning walk almost everyday he consulted Ayurvedic doctors he took treatment and it was required and finally when no immediate solution was working at that time he just took the ultimate solution he stopped all treatment and he said my only treatment is Harinama he will give me little charnamand and I will hear the holy name but throughout his life that was not what he was relying on he took the immediate also when it is required so the immediate and the ultimate function at different levels somebody may say the immediate solution does not work ultimately we may quote from scripture also that one solution leads to another problems that is true if we make the immediate solution as the only solution somebody would say that if you have got a disease you should not take painkillers because it is by your karma you are suffering the pain so if you take a painkiller and try to escape your karma then karma will come to you some other way well ok by that reasoning if you are hot don't use a fan because when you are hot what is happening it is your karma coming to you why are you using a fan why only come to a painkiller you can stop all material comforts now what is not a fan even if you are hot don't even remove sweat from your face why because that is your karma if a baby is crying the mother should not pacify the baby why baby is suffering the karma if we start attributing every single problem to a remote cause or a ultimate cause and don't work at the immediate level now all all systems of justice all basic systems of culture and civilisation everything will stop if somebody has been robbed and the robbed person goes to the king and says ok I have been robbed you are robbed because of your past karma well what somebody's past karma is not as important as what the king's present dharma is the king's present dharma is to protect the citizens so there is an immediate cause and there is an immediate effect and if A has robbed B then it is for the king to punish A and get the wealth back for B it is not that in the name of looking at the ultimate we don't look at the immediate so we have to if the immediate cause addressable at the immediate level it needs to be addressed so as I said the whole system of Ayurveda is looking at material cause and material solution ok you have got a disease this is because the kapha vata pitta in your body has become imbalanced and take this substance, take this medicine it will get balanced so addressing the immediate cause at the immediate level is one solution it is not the ultimate solution but it is one solution that is required and there are times when when the immediate solution or when addressing the immediate cause will not lead to solution those who are doctors know sometimes you see that this patient has got malaria and you give that patient treatment for malaria and still the patient doesn't get healed try, try, try it doesn't happen and then that means something else is going on over there so when the immediate cause doesn't lead to the solution addressing the immediate cause doesn't lead to the solution we also look at some other remote cause so for example if say there is water spilled over here and I walk on the water and slip and I fall and I get a sprain in my leg or my leg gets fractured now what is the cause of that now say that actually it is your past karma because of which you slipped ok, you can say that there are three other people who walked by there they didn't slip and fall, I only slipped and fall so yes, it is my past karma because of which I slipped and fell, it's fine now but does that mean that I should not clean the water from there all those people whose past karma is there only they will slip and fall no, not like that we have to address the immediate cause also so we address the immediate cause but it is not that if I slip and fall then I start getting angry with the person who spilled the water and I just went out at that ok, it's happened, it's happened so we address it at that level make sure that the water doesn't spill like that in future or it is cleaning sooner or later but there is no need to blame the other person as the sole cause of our problems so when there is an immediate cause and there is an immediate effect addressing it at that level is important but there are situations when it will not get addressed at that immediate level some people some people we can see that there are some people they eat a little and they stay thin and healthy some people eat a lot and still they stay thin and healthy some people eat a little and still they become fat so normally we could say that little food leads to if you eat moderately you stay healthy if you eat excessively you become unhealthy but some cases some people eat a lot they treat their tongue like a conveyor belt and still they stay healthy some people eat a little and still they fall sick something goes wrong so now what does this mean there is a correlation between how much we eat and how our health stays but some people by their past karma may be destined to have good health in this lifetime good health means an attractive physique a slim physique and then how they eat doesn't affect it so much some people by their past karma are meant to have a sickly body in this lifetime or an attractive physique or whatever so whatever they do it doesn't make much difference so that means what our actions have consequences the causes and effects are related but the delay between cause and effect may be there and how much delay may be there that may depend on the past karma that the person has done so if somebody is eating unhealthy it will have consequences but it may not come immediately so we look at the explanation for karma when we don't see the immediate immediate cause and the immediate effect or rather when we don't see the solution we address at the immediate level if it works at the immediate level fine if I come and slap one of you why did you slap I was giving you the result of your past karma you can slap me back I am giving you the result of your past karma so actually speaking we all are meant to behave in a cultured way and there is some person who is upset with me I have to try to see why that person is upset if I have done something wrong sometimes some people stay negatively disposed with us irrespective of what we do no matter how gentle how kind, how considerate we are still they are negatively disposed with us then when there is no immediate cause and still there is a situation coming up or there is a small immediate cause there is a big situation coming up then at that time we can understand yes this person is disposed because there is some past karmic situation and this person is giving me the result of my past karma so I can see it that way so when the immediate cause and immediate effect that correlation does not explain then we look for something more now why are we talking about this with respect to emotionally healthy spirituality all this also applies to our emotional health we need to address whatever issues we have at our level some people may be very sensitive speak one small word to them then they just get very disturbed some people have a very some people have a very thin skin small words hurt them and some people they are like hippopotamus sometimes if a bike collides with the hippopotamus, the bike falls down so whatever you speak there is no effect on them only sometimes so there are different people who are of different natures now if somebody is a little more sensitive then that means that person has a particular situation so at one level if somebody speaks harshly to them then the people around them also have to become sensitive I have to watch my words I have to watch my actions but from their perspective I have a particular nature by my situation and then I have to address my needs so we need to not get carried away by working only at the immediate level at the same time we can't reject the immediate level by saying that only the ultimate is the solution so to talk at the solution at the immediate and ultimate level we can give the example of a pain killing medicine and a curative medicine any solution at the immediate level is like a pain killing medicine yes so if it's hot, I turn on a fan I use a AC that's a pain killing medicine what does it do? it offers temporary relief so like that we can say that if I have sickness I take treatment, I become healthy it's temporary relief because ultimately the body is going to grow old, get diseased and it's going to die but the important thing is not that whether the relief is temporary or not what am I doing with the temporary relief so if the pain killing medicine helps in taking the treatment helps in living properly if the pain killing medicine is an aid to the curative medicine then that is fine if the pain killing medicine becomes a substitute for the curative medicine that's a big problem so if the immediate solution is all that I work on if I think that by scientific and technological progress we will solve all problems there is a genre of thought which is nowadays coming up, it is called transhumanism transhumanism means they say that humanity faces the problems what problems? we become old we become sick, we die say Bhagavad Gita philosophy but they say that by the advancement of science and technology we will transcend our humanity and we will conquer our old age, disease and death so again the point here is they are working at the immediate level to solve that permanently but it's not going to work so if we make the immediate solution the ultimate solution that is like making the painkiller as the curative medicine, that is harmful but at the same time if we take only the curative medicine and don't take the pain killing medicine that may subject the patient to too much pain and the patient may not be able to survive so the pain killing medicine can act as a complement to the curative medicine so similarly for us we need immediate solutions also so if we look only for the immediate solution you know this person, I can't relate with this person properly I can't relate with this person properly so I spend whole my whole energy trying to find a person with whom I can have a nice relationship and that's all that I am searching for and even if I find such a person how long I am going to live how long is that person going to live so we could say establishing a stable horizontal relationship is one level of solution we have to work on developing our internal relationship with Krishna also now the pain killing medicine and the curative medicine both need to work together here I will make one more important point that when doctors prescribe pain medicine they don't always prescribe the same level of pain killing medicine for everyone because different patients have different tolerance levels so some person in the same disease like a he said I broke one tooth of my tooth somehow while I was eating some date and then I went to a doctor and doctor looked at him and said he says I am not feeling any pain I said no he said you have got tooth broken you should be crying in pain I said it is not that I am stoic or something then he told me that actually with respect to pain you cannot predict sometimes a person gets a fracture and they are crying in pain sometimes a person gets a fracture they just go on with normal life and then they go to a doctor and say I got a fracture oh I didn't know so you know the the same damage to the body may be there but the extent of pain that different people feel can be different there is no necessary one to one correlation your bone is dislocated by say 1 mm therefore you will have this much magnitude of pain your bone is dislocated by this much you will have this much magnitude of pain so we cannot that pain cannot be quantified also so the point which I am making is different people may require different dosages of pain medicine the important point is not how much pain medicine somebody is taking or how much pain medicine somebody is avoiding the important thing is how much the person is taking the curative medicine the curative medicine is what is going to cure the pain medicine is meant to assist so for us when we are practising bhakti like some people as I said they may have very thick skin so they may not feel the need for so much love, affection, attention that means for them they don't need much pain medicine some people may need lot of love, affection, attention that means they need little more pain medicine but the important thing is not how much pain medicine a person is taking or somebody who is very detached I am so spiritually advanced somebody else they are so sentimental well that's ok that's the way we are we have to move from where we are towards Krishna so renunciation in the sense of say being able to tolerate worldly pains being able to live without worldly pleasures renunciation is a valuable resource in the spiritual path so we could say pain killer, taking less dosage of pain killer you can say that's something like having a high level of renunciation you don't need much material comforts you don't need much material pleasures that's good but you have to see renunciation can be the result of various things at one level the Bhagavatam says that by the practise of bhakti renunciation comes Vasudeva bhagavati bhakti yoga prayojita jine atya asho vairagyam jnanam jeta vetuka and by the practise of bhakti knowledge and renunciation come by the same time there can be even people who are non devotees who can be renounced in the sense that they satisfy the simple you may often hear of people who give up illustrious prosperous software careers and just decide to go to some eco-friendly living they go and start some eco-friendly farm and they are living in villages and they take care of things they satisfy their simple in fact one of the greatest paradox of the 20th century was that Hitler who killed or was responsible for killing almost 12 million human beings never killed a single animal for eating, he was a vegetarian now he had that level of detachment but he had so much ego so much hunger for food and he killed so many human beings so there may be some people who may not be able to give up meat at all but they will never even think of hurting another, hitting a human being killing a human being so there is different karmic combinations that may come so some people may have a certain level of renunciation by their past karma just like we see wealth some people are born with very wealthy family, some people are born not so wealthy families some people are born with great looks some people are born with mediocre looks this is we understand that Krishna has six opulences beauty and wealth, somebody has more somebody has less, we understand that is a result of past karma similarly renunciation is also one opulence and some people by their past karma may have more renunciation some people by their past karma may have less renunciation so now renunciation can come in two ways, renunciation can come by the practise of bhakti but renunciation can also come by the past karma now we always have to think and view things in a way that is favourable for our devotional service some devotees are very renounced we should minimise that, it is all by your past karma you are not a sincere devotee we shouldn't say like that but the important thing is we have to see what approach works for us, so sometimes some devotee by their past karma may be very renounced now renunciation is a very valuable resource for practising krishna bhakti just as wealth is a very valuable resource for practising krishna bhakti somebody has a lot of wealth then they can do so much service they don't have to worry so much about money and through the wealth they get some influence in society they can do a lot of things just as wealth can easily be abused similarly renunciation can also be abused somebody may use the renunciation abuse the renunciation to become proud and condemn everybody who is following and then that renunciation will not necessarily take them towards krishna see our renunciation is meant to help us look undistractedly up towards krishna when you don't have much renunciation what happens? we are looking at krishna and we look at something attractive in the world, oh let me look at this also let me look at this also so we can't look undistractedly towards krishna if we don't have adequate renunciation but if I use my renunciation not to look up at krishna but to look down at others so attached then my renunciation will not lead to much spiritual advancement so I am talking about this point of renunciation here to illustrate that different people may need different levels of material comforts, material facilities so that they can be peaceful and they can practise the process of spiritual growth practise bhakti just as while taking treatment while taking the curative medicine different patients may require different levels of pain killing medicines so the person's health or person's commitment to the process of recovery is not to be judged only by how much pain killing medicine they are taking or they are avoiding now again here also another complication comes is that if a person is recovering then also they will need less pain killing medicine just as if somebody becomes spiritually advanced they may become more materially detached but the point is the essential treatment is not to be tested by how much one is avoiding the pain killing medicine the essential treatment is how much one is taking the curative medicine so we need to focus on connecting with Krishna and for connecting with Krishna if we are in a particular situation where we need some more pain killing medicine then we take that now what do I mean by pain killing medicine we can say broadly some people have a more emotional nature, some people have a more rational nature now if somebody has a more emotional nature and they need more emotional bonding with other devotees so that they can practise bhakti peacefully that's the pain killer they need they take it and move onwards towards Krishna somebody has a more rational nature and they need answers to their questions they need proper philosophical understanding then that's the pain killing medicine they need and they need to get that and then they move towards Krishna so whatever we are in present situation we start from there and we move towards Krishna and based on our present situation we may have particular needs which it is our responsibility to address so emotionally healthy spirituality means by emotion I am using it inclusively to talk about our mental needs or the needs of our subtle body so whatever they may be we need to provide for them if I have a rational need if I have emotional need, if I have introvert nature, if I have extrovert nature whatever it is I have to take care of that so that I can move towards Krishna and if I don't take care of that then I am not taking care of my emotional health adequately it's like I am not taking the appropriate pain killing medicine then I will be in so much pain that the pain will make my life miserable and sometimes what may happen is the curative medicine is working but because the curative medicine is working it takes a good amount of time and because this patient is not taking the pain killing medicine so the patient may think oh this doctor's treatment only doesn't work and the doctor gives up the treatment and the patient gives up the treatment now all that was required was the appropriate dosage of the pain killing medicine so that the curative medicine will take its course and will heal so most often when devotees become discouraged in the practise of bhakti or devotees leave the practise of bhakti it's not so much because the process of bhakti has not transformed their lives bhakti does chanting Hare Krishna, remembering Krishna does transform us but sometimes because of the lack of the pain killing medicine the pain may be so much you may feel that what relief is bhakti providing so if devotees become very if somebody is very sick and the person is having fever and the person is in great distress and somebody goes and says Prabhu you are not your body this is the time for you to realise what you have been preaching all these years ok I know I am not my body but right now my body is suffering and so I am suffering if somebody is in trouble we cannot separate I love your soul but I don't care for your body we cannot separate the person I love your soul but I don't care for your mind the person right now is an integrated whole and to care for a person means to care for their body, mind and soul combined together we don't care so much for their body that we neglect their soul we don't care so much for their mind that we neglect their soul but we have to care for everything so if a devotee is sick and devotee is suffering at the bodily level we see that as an opportunity to do service to that devotee to assist that devotee we see that as Vaishnava Seva and by that we move closer to Krishna and that devotee moves closer to Krishna because that devotee gets the necessary support so if there is physical pain and because of that physical pain somehow that devotee is not able to practise bhakti or is too disturbed because of physical pain then addressing that physical pain is what is required so that they can practise bhakti peacefully and if somehow that physical pain is not addressed that doesn't mean the process of bhakti has stopped working but what happens is that we feel oh I was practising bhakti but still I got so many physical problems and nobody cared for me so what is the use of practising bhakti so what happened was the pain killing medicine was not provided and because of that we gave up the curative medicine also that should not happen so from the individual so there is a from individual's perspective and there is a community's perspective the individual should not think oh because I did not get the pain killer so I should stop the medicine I was in trouble and nobody came to help me I was at a place and then one devotee came and said actually I was sick I was in the hospital and not a single devotee came and called me nobody talked with me I thought they will come and give prasad to me everyday and nobody provided anything and I asked the other devotees they said that this devotee never told us that I was sick they should have known I was sick how do you expect them to know are they paramatma so if we have a particular need it's for me to communicate if some devotees come ok you are sick then other devotees can support they will provide but if we have a particular need and that need is not provided for and then we hold that against bhakti itself nobody cares for it well we are misunderstanding this from individual's perspective we have our social needs, we have our emotional needs we have our physical needs and ideally speaking the devotee community should provide for them but if they are not provided for that will cause pain to us and if that pain comes we will need to address that pain but just because that was not provided for that does not mean the process of bhakti is not working the process of bhakti is working at a curative level but the pain killing medicine is also required so from the individual's perspective if the pain killing medicine is not provided that doesn't mean that the devotee should stop taking the curative medicine still ok, this is what has happened whatever reason let me continue back to sigma because that is the ultimate solution from the other hand from the community's perspective we should be there to provide whatever is needed so even if it is something at a material at a physical level, at an emotional level support needs to be provided so that the pain killing is provided so that the medicine can be taken so the mood there is the individual and there is the community so both are encouraged to work cooperatively I'll give two examples for this then I'll conclude, we can have questions after that first example is let's consider old age in the Bhagavatam quite often it is talked about how when somebody becomes old they renounce the world, they become sannyasis they travel from place to place and Prabhupada says that a sannyasis' characteristic is that they should be fearless even if they are going in a forest sannyasis should think that Krishna is with them and Prabhupada says in one part that a sannyasi is a renounced person, dies alone in the forest, with nobody coming to know whether that person is living or dying that means that person has completely detached oneself from the world and such a death, completely unknown to the world that is a success and Prabhupada talks about how Dhritarashtra dies alone in the forest he talks about that but on the other hand while the individual sannyasis become detached but on the other side in the Vedic culture five categories of people are expected to be protected by society which are the five categories? the children the women the cows the brahmanas and the elderly now the elderly are being protected by society so on one side the elderly are told to renounce the world go to the forest and die unknown but the society as a whole is told take care of the elderly so here what is happening that means at the individual level you are told don't depend on the painkiller even if the painkiller is not there just focus on taking the medicine and you get cured but the community is told provide the painkiller now support give support to society so in this way there is cooperation at an individual level we try to develop more and more enunciation, we try to develop more and more absorption but at a social level we try to provide whatever is required for a person's needs so at an emotional level when our emotional needs are not taken care of then it is our responsibility to find out how to take care of these needs we can't at a community level the leaders of the community observe and we find this person has this kind of need we put this person with this person they can get along together very nicely both of them have a similar need put this person with this person, it just doesn't work so that is what from the community side that can be done but from an individual's perspective it is my responsibility to make spiritual advancement it is my responsibility to go towards Krishna and if I need a particular painkiller so that I can practise bhakti I can take the curative medicine of bhakti then it is my responsibility to get the painkiller now where I get it, that's up to me where I get it means that it may not, if I am of a particular nature then I have to find out who else is of that nature and then I bond with them and then I can move over towards Krishna so different devotees have different definitions of success and based on their definition of success now definition of success, what I mean by that is the ultimate success is of course that we develop love for Krishna and attain Krishna but while we are in the world some devotees may say distribution of books, that is the most important some devotees may say that that is the most important thing some may say that that is the most important thing that is the most important thing some may say building a temple that is the most important thing now all these are valid and valuable definitions of success and through every one of these definitions of success we are actually serving Krishna and the we all have to find out how best we can contribute to Krishna's mission so every community will have the leaders, the visionaries who will focus on a particular definition of success and we can as much as possible try to harmonise with that vision, with that focus at the same time if we have certain needs rather than demanding that the community provide for that we work to provide that so if I have a need to study Shastra very deeply and I feel that ok the classes here are good but they don't go deep enough, I would like to understand this, I would like to understand this there is no need to blame when it is not being provided some people have a more intellectual nature, they want to study more they can pursue that there is no need to blame others for not providing what are my specific needs I take care of that and I move forward in my work so we contribute as much as possible in accordance with the community's definition of success but if we have individual needs we take care of those needs that way both the individual and the community move forward so for us Krishna concludes the Bhagavad Gita by telling Arjuna yathe chrittha guru do as you desire that is 18.63 but there are several verses which come before that I will quickly go through those verses I will stress the significance Krishna in 18.58 he states he says he says if you become conscious of me you will pass over all obstacles by my grace if you don't become conscious you will act out of ego, you will be lost so this is a broad be Krishna conscious or you will be lost, that is what Krishna is saying but how to be Krishna conscious then he talks about he says he says Krishna says Arjuna if you think out of ego you will not act as I am telling you then material nature will make you act you are thinking that you will act Brahmanically you will forgive your opponents, be peaceful but in future when you are provoked a Brahmana asks for charity his hands are like this a Kshatriya takes taxes when a Brahmana tries to act when a Kshatriya tries to act like a Brahmana please give me some charity person says I will not give you charity then the Brahmana's Kshatriya nature will come, I will take it so he says at that time you will not have the authority to take because you are not a responsible king in this way you will go into Moha so Krishna says all of us will act according to our Subhava denying our Subhava is not going to work you say I don't want to act like this still you will act in that way our nature, he says you cannot give up your Kshatriya nature then 18.61 he says that ok does that simply mean that whatever is my nature I act according to my nature and do whatever I want he says no he says that the Supreme Lord is present in our body the body is made of a particular nature but we are not alone with the body of a particular nature along with us is Krishna and he is guiding the wanderings of all living beings and then what should we do understanding that I am here, my body with a particular nature is here, but along with that Krishna is also there then 18.62 says he says surrender to that Ishwara who is there in your heart whole heartedly surrender to him by his mercy whatever you obtain you will get peace, the supreme peace and you will get the enduring position or enduring sthana location so for Arjuna there were two choices at the start of the war either he can, if he has peace he will lose property he will not get a kingdom he wants a kingdom, he cannot have peace Krishna is telling if you surrender to me if you surrender to the Supreme Lord in the heart by that surrender you will both get the supreme peace because you will have harmonised with the divine and you will get the eternal destination you will come to my abode so both your fundamental needs you think this, by this I will get this by this I will get this no, by surrendering to Krishna you will get both similarly what Krishna is if you consider this versus how they apply to us now if we simply act according to our nature alone and we don't care for Krishna my nature is, ok I am emotional so whatever caters to my emotions I will do that so that means if I watch some movies I read some novels, I do this whatever caters to my emotions, whoever caters to my emotions even that person being immoral anti-devotional is catering to my emotional needs, I will take care of that I will do that and what will happen, you will go into illusion Krishna says don't just act only according to your nature at the same time he says if you reject your nature the nature is going to come back and nature is going to force you to act in a particular way so understand that we have our nature but we also have Krishna so if we work only for our nature we will stay in illusion we will go deeper into illusion if we work against our nature it can't last for long the needs will come back again and they will force us but if we work for Krishna with our nature then we will have for Arjuna both the peace and the kingdom will be provided for Krishna says similarly if you work for Krishna with your nature then both your material the needs according to the material nature whatever they will be fulfilled and the needs according to the spiritual nature that will also be fulfilled so if somebody has a need for more bonding and emotional relationships use that in Krishna's service get that fulfilled and fulfil that for others so we will get our emotional health restored and we will also progress towards spiritual health because the practise of bhakti will provide us spiritual health so we work not for our nature not against our nature we work for Krishna with our nature and this way we pursue spiritual health while providing for our emotional health and that way we can be as peaceful as is practically possible while living in this world and we pursue the path of ultimate happiness by developing our love for Krishna so I will summarise I spoke today about the second part of emotionally healthy spirituality in which I focused how anything that happens there is an immediate cause remote cause and ultimate cause so if I get malaria it is because of mosquito bite it is because of my past karma it is because of my forgetfulness of Krishna now we need to work both at the immediate level by taking the medicine and at the ultimate level by raising our consciousness to Krishna why would you get out of the world if somebody pursues only the immediate solution claiming that to be ultimate then that is an illusion science alone or technological progress alone cannot free us from disease first hundred diseases may go may be eliminated, hundred new old diseases will come so on the other hand if somebody pursues only the ultimate solution and neglects the immediate solution that also is not going to work somebody say surrenders to Jesus and tell that you should not use specks now you will not be able to see Arjuna demonstrates that he learnt from Krishna the ultimate solution of working in Krishna consciousness and he used from Drona the knowledge of Varchen that he had learnt for serving Krishna in the Kurukshetra war so we need to work both at the immediate and the ultimate level so if you start attributing everything to past karma then you will become very insensitive and all systems of relationship justice, morality will collapse if you start attributing everything to remote causes so if things are explainable or accountable at the immediate level you address them immediately if my stomach is upset what did I eat last night but if I ate normal food my stomach is upset that means something else is going on so we work at the immediate level when we can but at the same time we don't let working at the immediate level consume our whole attention we work at the ultimate level also so working at the immediate level is like taking a pain killing medicine working at the ultimate level is like taking a curative medicine the pain killer should be the complement to the cure not the substitute and now different people can endure different levels of pain they may require different doses of pain killing medicine similarly we all based on our past karma have certain levels of renunciation and accordingly we may need less or more material levels of comfort or necessities or we may have particular needs of the subtle body emotionality, rationality or whatever so whatever dosage of pain killer medicine we need, we take that and make sure that we continue with the treatment so if I have certain emotional needs I have certain rational needs I have certain social needs and make sure they are fulfilled and move towards Krishna sometimes the pain is caused by the stopping of the pain killing medicine and we think the cure is on working like that sometimes some of our emotional, social, rational needs are not taken care of and because of that we stop taking care of our spiritual needs and we give up the practise of bhakti, rather than doing that, at an individual level we should be ready that even if my I should try to develop more and more renunciation and even if my needs are not taken care of other needs still I practise Krishna bhakti just like old people they told just renounce the world and die alone but at a community level they are told take care of the elderly, so the community should try to provide for all the needs of its members and lastly I concluded by talking about how when we are practising Krishna bhakti it is our responsibility to work with our material nature to realise our spiritual nature Krishna tells Arjuna that don't reject, don't work according to your nature alone don't work against your nature work with your nature for Krishna, then you will get both the kingdom and peace similarly when we work addressing the needs of our nature towards Krishna then both our emotional health will be taken care of and we will progress towards spiritual health also thank you very much, Hare Krishna are there any questions or comments yes is astrology ok is astrology an immediate solution is the worship of the devatas also an immediate solution it's not exactly an immediate solution it's more like an intermediate solution astrology basically it's not that sometimes you say oh your Mangal is bad for you or your Mars is bad for you Saturn is bad for you it's not that Mars and Saturn have particular agendas against some people it's that it's that actually all of us by our own past karma have done certain actions and certain reactions are going to come and the alignment of the planetary positions indicates what kind of reactions are going to come to us to some extent just like the position of the hands of a clock can roughly tell us how much illumination will be there outside similarly the position of the planets can tell us roughly how much darkness or how much light is going to be there in our life at that particular time so at the level of astrology we can come to know that ok you are going through some bad phase so you can take some treatment for that take some cure for that sometimes they may tell that ok this particular devta you can worship, this particular puja you can do so now astrology in principle has been a part of our tradition at the same time in practise how it works how much it works it depends a lot on the expertise of the astrologer and quite often astrologers may be too materially minded too inexpert and as devotees if we get over dependent on that then sometimes we may use astrology to do what we want to do that means there is one devotee who has written a book how to mess your life with astrology so the idea is if I want to break a particular relationship then I go to astrologer and say no, no, it's alright, this will be alright I go to second astrologer I go to third astrologer I go to the tenth astrologer till I find somebody to just break this relationship and then I say oh my astrologer told me so I am breaking this relationship or same way I want to form a particular relationship and I try to find astrologer who says yes it's good for you so basically we may use astrology to do what we want to do and then rather than the astrologer being a being a guide the astrologer become like a a justifier for us so then it can become a big problem so important thing for us is to that in general we focus on dealing with practical things practically and we take shelter of Krishna if somebody feels inspired to take guidance from take some input from astrology it's good if there is an expert devotee astrologer who can give us devotional remedies so if we are going through a bad phase rather than worshipping a particular devata or a particular appeasing a particular planet we can satisfy the manifesto supreme who is presiding over that particular devata that particular planet so that way we can look for devotional remedy so whether you consult astrology or not that's up to individual Prabhupada sometimes would consult astrologer before he would travel make his travel plan so according to astrology it is said that Thursday he should not travel so Prabhupada sometimes consult that but if a programme came up he would travel on Thursday also he was not dependent on that so as Thursday I am just giving you as an example I am not saying that we are not making absolute statement that nobody should travel on Thursday at all just giving an example of this so the point is astrology is something which has valid principles underlying it but whether they can be applied today whether there are experts who can actually guide us to apply them effectively today that is something which is open to examination thank you any other questions yes ma'am so much time goes for the immediate cause that if the ultimate cause you know reaches us we know it is not easy to apply because all the energy is going yeah that's true sometimes the immediate needs take so much time and energy that we can't do much to reach ultimately yes that's why we have to make sure that there is some ground level commitment to the ultimate that we always keep without that the immediate will consume everything sometimes you want to tie loose ends let me fix this but actually material like the loose ends never end I fix 10 things 11, 12, 13, 14 they will keep coming that's why we have to have some rock bottom commitment these are the things which I am going to do no matter what happens see for important things we don't if something is important I don't know how I can find time for this you say for important things we don't have to find time we have to allot time when I say find time means it's like time is like some object that is lying in my suitcase and I have lost it somewhere I am going with a flashlight to locate where is the time it's not like that, we all have the same amount of time and for important things we have to allot time so now having said that that we need to allot time for some ground level commitment to the ultimate solution to the practise of heartbeat along with that there are phases in our life when the immediate may require more time than usual and that's just the way life is that's ok sometimes health may be bad financial situation ups and downs may be there sometimes in our social relations turbulence may be there so if that requires more time that's fine I give the example that if you are travelling along the road, the traffic becomes crowded we slow down at that time because we can't move fast traffic becomes clear, we move faster afterwards so we keep moving forwards just because the traffic is so big, we stop and turn around and go in other direction keep moving, so like that we keep trying to move towards Krishna with whatever capacity we have in our particular situation and eventually things become more clearer and we move faster and one more aspect of Krishna Bhakti is that even the immediate solutions can be done with the consciousness of the ultimate I may work at a factory, I may be earning money I may be taking care of my family because these are all bodily needs which I am taking care of but I can do them in a mood of service like Krishna so that is not the only service we are meant to perform we are meant to perform direct devotional service also but we don't have to necessarily divorce the two completely if I infuse the mood of service into whatever I am doing then we move towards Krishna Prabhupada would tell that at one time in the early days all the devotees were living in the temple itself so some of the temple leaders were not so mature, they told devotee mothers who had young small children yes we have one mother who will take care of all the children and all of you go home and the babies did not have enough time with their mothers when Prabhupada came to know about this Prabhupada said I am surprised you are leaving your child to the care of someone else Prabhupada said your children are like your deities take care of them first and then you do other services so Prabhupada did not see that this is just your child and you take care of children because in this child are special souls who are sent to us by Krishna so we can infuse whatever we are doing at an immediate level with the God Shiva to the ultimate with the mood of service to the ultimate so that way we can work through our situation towards Krishna whatever that situation is did I answer your question? any other questions? yes sir when you are trying to guard your emotional well being or trying to ignore your trust there sometimes at least in my case there is a sense of selfishness that oh I am being partial to this person or I am being greedy or I am being partial to this person because I see that in particular relationship with family or community where we are just not able to get along with someone but we are told just tolerate and get along but that causes too much agitation for us so should we just accept it but if we try to change it are we working at a right way to do it the key thing is that we need to keep moving towards Krishna and say suppose simple example suppose if I am sitting and chanting in a group of devotees I sit next to a devotee and I find that devotee is chanting very loudly I can't hear my holy name then I move a little further then I find that devotee is also chanting loudly then I move a little further away and then if all my two hours are just moving from one place to another to another to another to another and then I move outside and I say the vikings are too loud over here then I go to my house and somebody is playing a TV over there then I keep shifting my situation horizontally here there here there and I don't chant at all I have to say okay this is the situation I am in I have to chant I can try to minimise the distraction as much as possible but I cannot let my whole energy go simply in minimising the distraction so we have to use our intelligence at some level how much to address the situation at a practical level and how much to tolerate and just move on towards the ultimate it's the same way we physically move a little bit and decide that's enough now let me just focus on hearing the situation like that we also have to decide okay with this person I am working I cannot work too closely with that person but sometimes we get so just as attachment can be a distraction in bhakti similarly aversion can be a distraction in bhakti also sometimes we are too attached to someone when we come to a temple we are not really coming to the temple to see Krishna we are coming to see someone whom we are attached to and then we are not really focussing on Krishna at that time I am talking about we are materially attached not spiritually attached but sometimes we become so averse that if that person is going to come to temple I will not come to temple well that means you know I am considering my relationship with that person as more defining than my relationship with Krishna we cannot go into that zone of aversion also so we don't have to go out of our way to interact with someone whose nature doesn't work with us and we don't have to go out of our way or we don't have to make it our life's mission to avoid that person we just find our service and we move on in our service and if something is not working we create some distance so rather than seeing that only the immediate or only the ultimate or how much immediate or how much ultimate we just focus on what is practical sometimes we can adjust a little bit something at the immediate level so that we can focus more on the ultimate level but sometimes it may be that the difficulty in getting a real solution may be what may force us to seek the ultimate solution more diligently sometimes when we just say I can't do anything about this sometimes I do something small and then I can focus more on Krishna sometimes I just can't do anything and that's when I focus on Krishna Krishna I need you so we have to see what works best so that we can connect with Krishna keep the ultimate purpose of connecting our consciousness with Krishna in mind then how to balance between the immediate and ultimate that will work out ok thank you yes we had a question here ok Mataji Mataji is in here, does Mataji have any question yes we will come back to you I was trying to hear you say that they all go together and I answered this question but I was wondering in terms of ultimate ok she is going to die Bhagwan Akhil God I love Bhagwan Akhil so if 300 people are on a flight and that flight crashes then is it that all of them have the same karma because of which they are killed at that time the karma is a very subtle concept kahana karma sometimes we may try to we say ok this action has that reaction and that action has that reaction so does that mean all those 300 people have done the exact same bad karma same one action because of which they are all dying over here not like that karma is the system of correlation between action and reaction but it is not that simple sometimes one action may lead to series of reactions sometimes one action that means say somebody drives drunk they may damage their car they may injure someone they may get a legal fine they may somebody whom they have injured that person becomes vengeful and decides to attack and kill them so series of reactions I am just giving from a practical perspective how one action can lead to many reactions so conversely many actions their reaction may be concentrated in one event that happens in our life so for example say somebody is somebody is born poor now we could say there is a lifelong reaction that is coming now that poverty may trouble them constantly in some ways but sometimes it may trouble them acutely and sometimes it may not trouble them so much so the point which I am making over here is that when certain things happen to someone it is not that that necessarily so if I slip and fall on the water does that mean necessarily that you know I had spilled water in somebody's path and I made them fall and that's why I am falling right now it may be it may not be sometimes we talk about karma in those terms if you kill an animal you will be killed that's true but that is indicative that is not necessarily the only way karma will work so if we although karma is a subtle and not so easily quantifiable concept but what we can understand is that say if say this much quantity of karma is when that much quantity of karma is supposed to be delivered then that person's life ends now how much how this particular quantum of karma will be accumulated by that person will vary from how much how another person accumulates that quantity of karma so if there are 300 people in a flight and they all die that means they all had accumulated the quantum of karma which was what was needed for them to die at that time but that does not mean exactly all of them had done the same actions they all could have done different actions at different times and they all get different reactions sorry they all have different specific reactions to their particular karmas but those reactions combine together to give a particular physical form to the reaction even when death occurs for some people even if the flight gets destroyed some people may just be sleeping and they die in their sleep they don't feel much pain at that time somebody is awake and they see their body burning they are horrified and then they die sometimes 10 people go through the same emotional trauma but some people get very traumatised some people are barely scarred by that so we see that karmic reaction how it comes and how it affects all that there are many subtleties in it so there is mass karma where many people may get their reactions together at one time but still the actions that they have done can be individual and different can you answer the question yes okay so how do we find out what is our real nature where there is social pressure there is devotional pressure yes most importantly there is the mental pressure if you ask the mind what is my nature whatever you are doing right now that is not your nature the nature of the mind is that it will keep us dissatisfied whatever we do even if we go to paradise the mind will say yes but so we cannot simply bank on the emotions of our mind to decide what is our nature so in general when we are going through our life we try to cultivate an attitude of service an attitude of surrender okay whatever situation I am in I will try to serve in the best way that I can whatever service I am given I will try to do it to the best of my capacity but while cultivating this mood of surrender and service we observe ourselves and we may find okay this service I like to do and this service I am good at doing so these two things guna and karma guna means internal comfort in doing something karma means external competency doing that thing so gradually as you find out certain things you are comfortable doing internally and you are competent doing externally then you can understand this is more or less what I am actually inclined to do and you can try to gradually increase that more and more so rather than thinking that its like discovering my nature finding my nature is like finding one key in a treasure hunt which will open the whole treasure for me you see its a gradual discovery so we have the attitude of service we do whatever we are told to do by that we learn to discipline our mind but we also observe what I am competent, what I am comfortable and do that more and more slowly we start aligning with our nature okay so yes yeah so can I suggest some 2-3 actions that we can do to apply whatever we talked about in these seminars first would be that if we feel dissatisfied, troubled, irritated don't think that that is a lack of Krishna Bhakti try to find out what is the circumstantial situation because of which if I am not getting taste in chanting if not just because the holy name is I am not able to connect with the holy name it may be because there are other things which are affecting me so we try to not blame the not attribute our dissatisfaction to the lack of potency of Krishna Bhakti but we try to explore and see if I have particular needs if I find out what is it doing which makes me feel satisfied or what is it not doing which or not getting which makes me very agitated so if I come to someone and I greet them and they don't greet me I get very agitated by that or if I come in and I see that this thing is not done right I feel very angry so basically doing what makes us feel unsatisfied or not doing what causes us to get agitated you can observe that and that can give us some more inclination towards our own nature towards what our needs are towards what our strengths are and lastly we can try to become more observant of others and more understanding rather than more negligent or judgemental some devotees get very disturbed by something why are you making such a big hue and cry over such a small thing trying to understand that this is not a small thing so that doesn't mean we have to over value every single thing but rather than neglecting others or judging others we can try to see their actions as ways of better understanding and that depending on our particular relationship with them, depending on what facility we have we can try to address those needs for them and that way we can serve them we are serving them not just by encouraging them to chant Hare Krishna or engaging them in direct devotional activities serving others can also be facilitating their emotional, social, rational situations so that they can serve Krishna better so that way both in self understanding and in understanding others we can try to apply what we discussed ok so thank you very much for your kind attention and for your enthusiastic participation because I have been here for third time now and every time your enthusiasm continues to astonish me I was talking with His Grace Aniruddha Brahm and told him that the combination in various parts of the world I have travelled the combination of a significantly large congregation with a serious ethos of education where devotees are eager to hear and understand different aspects of philosophy that is present in barely a handful of places in all over the world so all of you are jewels in the crown on which the Prabhupada is held and if I have committed any offences I seek your forgiveness and I seek your prayers and blessings so that I can continue my service to Krishna and my best wishes to all of you thank you very much.