For devotees practicing bhakti in the West, is it better to educate our children in India or in the West?
So, generally if we are to decide whether to have the education of our children in America or India. There's devotions as devotees. Generally we have three different, or you could say two different, but three, want them to become professionally competent so that they can choose a good career and have a particularly stable life.
And we want them to be spiritual. We want them to be practicing devotion. And of course, related with that, or same as that, you could say that in spirituality there is a broad culture, which is the, which we would like to pass on to our children also.
With respect to schools, in general, there are two visions of how Krishna consciousness is to be shared, or to be practiced also. One is, we could say, segregation model. The other is the integration or penetration model.
In the segregation model, the idea is that we want to offer the world an alternative to its whole way of living. So we'll have farm communities, we'll have our own educational system, we'll have our own varnashram and social division of labor. We will have everything different.
And Prabhupada did try some things like that, say in New Vrindavan or in Mayapur also, he wanted it to be like that at some point. But the overall thrust of his was building temples in cities. You see the number of farm communities Prabhupada developed and the number of city temples he developed.
And city temples means he wanted them to be, to penetrate into the city. And as compared to Prabhupada's times, now our movement is in a different stage demographically. During Prabhupada's times, becoming a devotee meant moving into the temple.
Even if somebody was a grahastha, they moved into the temple practically. So you could say in America, ISKCON was temple centered. In India at that time there was no ISKCON, means that there were no full time devotees.
Most of the people who were following were life members. And most of the active work was done by people who came, Prabhupada's followers who came from America. So life members are here, full time devotees are here.
Now the heart of our movement now or the mass of our movement is neither here nor here. It is here. We are congregation devotees.
So they have their own jobs, their careers, but their commitment is not as loose as that of life members. At the same time, they are not centered on the temple way, the devotees who stay in the temple are. So in this situation, whether to choose the segregation model or to choose the penetration model, that is a decision which every devotee has to make individually.
And broadly speaking for us, for a whole series of reasons, the segregation model has not worked out anywhere. In fact, many of the biggest failures in our movement have been associated with the segregation model. Say New Vrindavan was a big mess.
The way things worked out historically. Of course, things are improving now. But even the Gurukul, we had the whole issue of child abuse and everything.
So some places they tried to have early marriages. Some places and some Gurukul they tried to actually observe the children's Varna and say that you are a Brahmana, you do this. You are a Kshatriya, you do this.
But then they were grievously wrong. And similarly, when devotees grew old, devotees gave their life to Krishna in the temple. But when the temple's book distribution went down, temple didn't have resources, instead of protecting the old, which is a part of Varanashram, they just let off.
So those devotees also became very bitter. So overall, the penetration, the segregation model has not been successful. Now, of course, there are some places where segregation model is being done and who knows, it may be successful also.
But overall, the way devotees live now, it is mostly at the level of penetration. And if some devotees are driven for a particular cause, like some devotees are strongly driven for cow protection, then they may start a farm community. Some devotees maybe have a mission.
Yes, you want to build a Gurukul. That's wonderful. If they are driven for that, then this is also a very vibrant way of, the segregation model is not wrong.
It's also a very vibrant way of presenting Krishna Bhakti and practicing it and attracting people also. Each model attracts a particular kind of people. So with respect to the segregation model, there are people who are very strongly looking for not just a deeper meaning to life, not just spiritual experiences, but there are also some people looking for alternative lifestyles.
The number of those people in the 1960s and 1970s were very high. Now people are looking for alternatives in specific aspects of their life, not an alternative lifestyle itself. That means instead of eating non-veg, I'll become vegan.
Instead of taking allopathic medicine, I will do yoga. But people are not ready to, most people are not ready to completely change their lifestyle in terms of moving into a temple or anything like that. So the first principle is that if we are living at this level too, not temple based, not life based, congregation, then we have to understand that our spiritual life is our responsibility.
Our material life is our responsibility. Our family life is our responsibility. We can't outsource any of this to the temple, whether the temple is in India or is in America or anywhere else.
We can't outsource what our responsibility is to the community. The community will take us forward. The community may, the community may not.
The community is doing that wonderful, but the community is not. It's always our responsibility. You have to analyze how best the children can be prepared for life, both materially and spiritually.
Generally, in India, in America, relatively in the Western world in general, the advantages are that from my observation, you can know some other observations also that you have relatively less demanding jobs in terms of India. The lifestyle is very, very, the work schedule is very demanding. Second is that, relatively speaking, the material needs are taken care of in a more organized way.
So practical things don't take so much time and energy. You don't have to spend a lot of time in arranging for water supplies, get water and stuff like that. It takes a lot of time.
And overall, there is a certain amount of financial security that can be built upon sales intelligence, which is much more than what would be in India. India, the advantage is that you have a bigger family, not just your social family, not just your birth family, but also the devotee community, especially in a place like that. And there's a lot of good, equal or immediate senior association.
Here you may get very senior association occasionally. You may be able to access sannyasis also when they come over here. Sannyasis, gurus, but otherwise not much association here.
Now, from the children's perspective, I met many devotees who were discussing this and one devotee, he talked with his spiritual master, talked with one of our goddesses, talked with Radhanath Maharaj about this. So Maharaj told him that, he said, I have seen examples of parenting being successful in India as well as being unsuccessful in India. That means children turn out to be very good human beings, good devotees, or children turn out to get spoiled in India.
I have seen that in America also, both ways. So I don't, his overall, what the devotee told me is that Maharaj seems to be non-committal. Maharaj, in terms of whether really India is better for the children's spiritual growth, he says, even though the devotee is trying to come to Mumbai or Pune and go to devotees, Maharaj said that, what is the service you are doing here? And if you are doing important service here, you will be able to do much more service in America than India.
In India, it's a possibility one gets lost in the crowd. Because there are so many devotees, to get any responsible service is difficult. So instead of just thinking about the children, we also have to think about our own spirituality.
Because if we are financially and spiritually well situated, then there is a calmness in our life and that radiates to the children also. So if there is turbulence for you right now over here, and that seems to be going on and on and on, that will affect them negatively, even if that is not directly relevant to them right now. But if you are well stable here, then any kind of change involves a lot of things which you have to adjust.
Changing, especially locating from one country to another is a huge logistical effort. And you cannot really be sure how things are going to work out when if you go back. So don't, in terms of your own spiritual nourishment, spiritual stability also, as well as professional stability, there is also a factor which you consider.
And it's not so much of a, with respect to the guru, it's good for a few years wherein they get some spiritual impressions. But beyond that, ultimately they have to enter into the mainstream world. And the teenage years are the years when there's a lot of turbulence in the mind.
So some devotional environment in the childhood, if it is not given in a restrictive way, but in an attractive way, then that can create positive impressions which help the children in their teenage years. So India is also becoming that way quite materialistic. Indian colleges are, Indian colleges, Indian schools are not the way they were when we were studying.
So in that sense, there's no guarantee that if in India they go to a, even if they go in a devotee school here or a devotee school there, eventually the challenge is going to come when they go to the colleges. Because we don't have any protected environment in the colleges. So let's say whatever helps you to prepare them best for their material career, as well as help them, gives them good spiritual impressions.
So if children themselves have a negative attitude of India, we don't want to go back to India. And then the parents force them to go back. And children may accept that because right now they have no choice.
That will create a lot of resentment. And even if there is something attractive about Bhakti, they will associate that or that will get overshadowed by the unattractiveness of they having been forced to relocate. So if they have a, their perspective also has to be taken very seriously.
Although they may say they don't know much right now and what can they think, but they may not be able to think objectively like us, but still they also have emotions. I've seen this forcing them. Because what, sometimes some kids just like being in India.
There are so many friends, so much nice, there is so much that. I think that is also an important factor. Maybe if you could, if you could plan in such a way that if you are going to India for a yatra or something, at that time you go to Gopal's garden and spend some time there and you meet with the parents over there, you meet the school management, whoever you can meet, you meet with them, let them see the school and then that will also give them a more first-hand basis for decision making.
Because sometimes it may be that the decision may be taken out of our hands only. Like I said, if the visa doesn't work out, you have to go back to India. But that is a, that is something which we can't control.
So if it is a very high probability event, then you may decide better that there's not much, then all this reasoning which you are doing, that becomes irrelevant only. Because you're practically forced to go back. That's a different issue.
But if the decision is in your hands and your hand is not being forced by anything beyond you right now, then it is best to get a first-hand experience and try to contact if possible some devotees who have done this shift from, maybe they've not been in exactly the same situation that, for example, a devotee runs school here and then some school in India. I know two, three devotees. One devotee went to India.
He stayed for about six months or one year. He came back again. He's staying in Seattle now.
Another devotee from Atlanta, he went to India and he's staying in India. So both of them have had very radically different experiences with respect to India. So the more information and the more experience you get, the more you will have a sounder foundation for decision making.
So your own spiritual financial stability and their desire, their interest, their inclination and the preparedness for their career as well as the potential to give them spirituality in an attractive way. Sometimes in a big community, in a small community, children get to perform dramas and things like that, where everybody sees them. But in the big community, they do not get that opportunity.
Or the advantages in the big community, even if they don't get to do in the main place, the main drama festival in Chowpatty, they may have just small, small local festivals, there also they get a good audience. So overall, what we can do ultimately, when we are to influence one human being and influence another human being only in three ways. Now we can give knowledge, we can give facilities, we can give inspiration.
This is knowledge means this choice leads to this, this choice leads to this. Facilities is OK, this is a good choice, but you don't have to take it alone. This is a good path for you to take.
But I'll provide you some facility. If you want to go on this path, I'll give you some supports. Maybe I'll give you a car to drive.
If it's a steep path, I'll give you some hiking gear, whatever facilities. And inspiration is primarily comes from our example that we are also doing this and it is, we are happy about it. You can also be happy.
So these are three main ways in which you can influence others. You have to see how best you can provide these, whether here or there. And based on that, you can decide.