From anartha-nivrtti to artha-pravrtti 3 – Understanding Artha
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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
Hare Krishna. Is that correct? Am I audible? Yes. Yeah? Yeah.
Okay. So, till now we have discussed about Anartha Nivrutti. I talked about how in the condition stage… I can see that there is… Okay.
Okay. In the… I'm sorry, it can't be… No, what did you do? Like this? Underneath your ear. It's almost on the side of your ear.
You want it underneath if you can. Like this? I can adjust a little bit. It's not perfect.
Okay, thank you. So, we discussed about Anartha Nivrutti till now. How the Anarthas are that which is actually not of much value.
It appears to be supremely valuable in the condition stage. And we discussed about how detachment can be sustained at some level through intelligence. Now, we'll talk about Gyana and Buddhi.
What is its role in Bhakti? So, Jeeva Goswami talks about this in his commentary to the Bhakti Rasam in Sindhu. You got the old PPT, don't you? You got the old PPT. I'm sorry.
You got the old PPT. I'm sorry. So, basically Rupa Goswami says in the Bhakti Rasam in Sindhu that… There's a copy over there.
There's only one. Just open it. You open that one only.
Go down. Just go fast. Go to Artha.
Fast, fast. Yeah, go ahead now from here. Yeah.
This is right. So, there in the 64 items of devotional service that Rupa Goswami talks about, he says that Gyana is not one of them. So, Jeeva Goswami has written a commentary, Durgam Chandramanitika.
There is a commentary in the Bhakti Rasam in Sindhu. And he analyzes over there that what does he mean when Gyan is not an element of Bhakti. So, he says that what does that Gyan refer to? It refers to Atma Gyan, Ishwara Gyan or Ekatva Gyan.
Just the knowledge of the soul alone or the knowledge of… Basically, there are different categories of Gyan we can have. First I know about myself. Then I know about God.
Then I know about the relationship between the two. So, especially if the Gyan about myself and Ishwara culminates in Ekatva, then that kind of Gyan is unfavorable to Bhakti. So, actually we may say that if Gyan itself is rejected as an element of Bhakti, then or is said to be not at all a part of Bhakti at all, then Bhakti also has scriptures in it.
And you also study those scriptures. So, when he says that Gyan is not an element of Bhakti, he is primarily talking about Gyan as the Gyan which culminates in we understand ourselves as soul, we understand the supreme and then we say that Aham Brahmasmi, that I am Brahman. So, if that knowledge culminates in that, that knowledge is unfavorable to Bhakti.
And that knowledge is not to be accepted. So, he says, why is this Gyan pratikul to Bhakti, unfavorable? Because in its content or its constitution, in its constitution it is, when the idea that we are one with God, then it denies the eternality of Bhakti. In its application, what does it do? All emotions are false because it's only consciousness that exists.
Any emotion that we experience in a relationship with anyone, that's all illusion. So, then that leads to the hardening of the heart. And ultimately the destination is the merging, which actually is the end of Bhakti.
So, that means the whole frame of analysis is actually unfavorable to Bhakti. The beginning itself we say that I am going to, I have to ultimately go beyond the relationship. And in the process, we give up emotions and in the end, we just think that we have merged, so then there are no emotions at all.
So, in this way, throughout it is unfavorable to Bhakti. But the Gyan can also be unequal. So, in Bhakti when we have Gyan, our focus is on, not on the oneness of the soul with God, but the subordination of the soul to God.
The focus is on the glory of God, glory of Krishna. And when we understand the glory of Krishna, then in application, as we understand more and more the glory of Krishna, rather than the hardening of the heart, there is the stabilization of devotional emotions. Krishna is so wonderful, Krishna is so, such is the greatness of Krishna, such is the sweetness of Krishna.
Therefore, let me become devoted to him. So, this knowledge is actually favorable to Bhakti. And in the destination, actually deepens our appreciation of the Lord as glorious.
So, we have some understanding of Krishna's glories. The more we study about Krishna, the more we can appreciate his glories more and more. So, Krishna in the Chatur Shloki Bhagavad Gita also talks about this.
In 10.8, first verse in Chatur Shloki Gita, he says that, those who know that he is the source of everything, they are Buddha. They are Buddha, they are wise, they are enlightened, but they have devotional emotion. And they understand that I am the source of everything, I am the sustainer of everything.
The next verse is, Vaishnava says, He says, such devotees, their consciousness is fixed in me, their lives are dedicated to me, and they delight in enlightening each other about me. Now, the bodhayanta word is very significant, because if they are already Buddha, if they are already enlightened, then why do they need bodhayanta? They are already enlightened, then how can they enlighten each other? The point is that Krishna's glories are unlimited. And the devotee is enlightened, and the devotee can still keep getting more and more appreciation of Krishna's glories.
And in that way, the more knowledge of Krishna we get in the devotional context, the more we can relish his sweetness. Just like we have the Bhagavatam verses themselves, they are wonderful. Vaishnava Prabhupada's purports, they unpack the Bhagavatam, they expand the Bhagavatam for us.
And we can relish the Bhagavatam more and more. With Acharya's commentaries, the commentarial tradition is just meant to help us to enhance our appreciation of Krishna's glories as it is revealed in the scripture. So, this knowledge is actually very favorable to bhakti.
And when I talked about buddhi earlier, when you talk about buddhi simply as intelligence, which, how temptations are bad, how indulgence is entangling, if the buddhi is only focused on that, that buddhi cannot sustain for long. That buddhi will be overwhelmed. But if our buddhi is focused on Krishna, and we understand how wonderful Krishna is, then actually the study of philosophy, the use of our intelligence to acquire the knowledge about Krishna, that can make us more and more fixed in devotion to Krishna.
In the Chaitanya Charita Amrita it is said, Siddhanta baliya chitte na kare alas, Iha hite Krishna lage sudrudha manas. So, Siddhanta baliya, some people say this is all philosophy. I am not interested.
I am simply interested in rasa. I am interested simply in Krishna. Siddhanta baliya chitte na kare alas.
Don't be lazy about this. Why? Iha hite, by this Siddhanta, Iha hite Krishna lage sudrudha manas. By understanding the Siddhanta properly, our mind will become fixed on Krishna firmly.
So, sudrudha manas. So, Siddhanta has this effect of increasing our focus, of giving us the conviction that we can focus wholeheartedly on Krishna. So, knowledge for us as devotees, it is not just knowledge of the futility of material world or material pleasures.
For us, knowledge primarily is the glory of Krishna. And when we focus on that, and that absorption in Krishna through our heart, through our intelligence, through all our faculties, that is what ultimately protects us from illusion. So, when we are studying the philosophy, we see the philosophy not just as some kind of intellectual analysis to protect ourselves from Maya.
We see the philosophy also as a gift from Krishna. And that gift is to enable us to come out of illusion. And this notion of the philosophical knowledge also as a gift is there in the Chatur Shloki later verse, in the next two verses.
Krishna says, Krishna says, those who are constantly devoted to me, I give them the intelligence by which they can come to me. Next verse is, He says, I illumine the darkness that is there in the heart with the torchlight of knowledge. So, for us, when we have a personal understanding of the absolute, then we don't see knowledge as a tool that we are using to fight Maya.
By our knowledge, by our intelligence, we will analyze and we will overcome Maya. We see even the knowledge that we have, even the intelligence that we have as a gift from Krishna. And when we see it as a gift from Krishna, then even that knowledge connects us with Krishna.
And that connection with Krishna helps us to gradually go beyond illusion, go beyond temptation. So, in that sense, as I said earlier, intelligence helps us to understand that the lower taste is lower and to understand that the higher taste is higher. So, this intelligence, it can come simply by material analysis also.
But that is not our thrust. Our thrust is in Bhakti. We see the intelligence as a gift from Krishna.
And when we see it as a gift from Krishna, then that intelligence which we have doesn't make us proud. I am so clever. We think that makes us more connected to Krishna, more indebted to Krishna.
And we feel ourselves more enhanced in our devotion even through that knowledge. So, going back earlier, to the definition of maya which the Bhagavatam gives us, anything which is seen as meaningful, but which is disconnected from Krishna, that is maya. So, if we see knowledge, jnana, as disconnected from Krishna, then that jnana becomes a part of maya.
But if we see the jnana as coming from Krishna, then that jnana also becomes the mercy of Krishna and that jnana helps us to move closer to Krishna. So, by jnana, we understand that Krishna… So, for us, when we see… No, it's come out. Should I try putting it here? Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna… Still loose.
Am I audible? I can adjust it. Okay, fine. Thank you.
Hopefully, it's… So, we're looking for a wire. Should I move this? Sorry. Let's put this and I'll put my specs on top.
Okay, you want to add here? No, I'll just put this on first. So, now I have to bend back the other way. Okay, try it from here.
Whatever works out best. Hare Krishna. So, when we see the jnana is connected with Krishna, then that jnana also becomes a part of our bhakti and it helps us to move closer to Krishna.
So, now I gave earlier the example of the two level existence, material and spiritual. So, for us, when we talk about bhakti jnana, what it means is that, first of all, a higher level exists. There is something beyond this material level of reality.
And not only that, it gives us the knowledge that bhakti yoga is the best way to access that higher level of reality. Through bhakti yoga, it's like an elevator which will take us to that higher level. So, this knowledge is… Broadly, we could say, this is samanda, abhidheya and prayojan.
A higher level exists. There is a higher reality, the supreme reality Krishna, with whom I want to relate. And abhidheya is the process.
Okay, there is an elevator by which I can go. Samanda Krishna, abhidheya bhakti, prema prayojan. So, the knowledge in bhakti, the jnana which sustains our buddhi is entirely connected with Krishna.
And the third is that, actually, prema, when we want to develop love for Krishna, we already have love for many objects in this world. And whatever is attractive at the material level is found in its fullest at the spiritual level. That means, we may be attracted to beauty, we may be attracted to intelligence, we may be attracted to wealth, we may be attracted to power.
So, whatever is attractive in this world, the bhakti jnana helps us to understand that it is all present in Krishna, in its fullest. And thus, instead of being attracted here, let me become attracted there. So, this philosophical understanding, iha hai te krishna lage sudhrudha manas.
By this, you will become wholeheartedly fixed in Krishna. So, the idea is, this third point is based on Bhagavad Gita 10.41. yad yad vibhuti mat sattvam shriman urjitame bhava tat tadeva avagacchatvam mamate jo amishe sambhava So, Krishna says that, whatever is opulent, beautiful, glorious in this world, it manifests a spark of my splendor. Manifests a spark of my splendor means, Krishna is saying that, the attractive objects of this world are not false.
But, they are only a spark. Now, if it's dark and it's cold, and we see a spark. Now, in the darkness, the spark is fine.
But, spark does give some light. But, how much light can it give? We can't read anything in it. It can't relieve us from the cold.
But, if we have nothing else, then at least the spark will be attracted to the spark. So, if you understand that the attractive objects of the world are like sparks, and then Krishna is the whole, then, rather than getting captivated by the sparks, we will think, oh, this is so attractive, and how much more attractive Krishna will be. So, that way, the bhakti jnana offers us a more complete understanding of even the pleasures present in this world.
Because, from the impersonal perspective, if this world is an illusion, and somehow it is superimposed on the Brahman, then why should it have anything attractive in this world? It's simply an illusion. The attractiveness in this world is because all the attractive objects manifest a spark of Krishna's splendor. And this means that we are not meant to deny our experience of reality.
Say, for example, if something tastes good, all tastes are just illusion. Now, if some music is good, all music is just, what is it? It's just some sound vibration in ether. It's all illusion.
Now, what we experience at the sensory level, it is also reality. But the problem comes when we think it is only reality. And we get captivated by that.
So, whatever is attractive, if somebody is beautiful, in the Bhagavatam also, many places, there are descriptions of beauty given. It's not that beauty is to be seen as illusory. Yes, it is illusory in the sense that if we get captivated by that beauty and think this is what will give me pleasure, then that will delude us.
But if we see the beauty of this world as a spark of Krishna's beauty, then we acknowledge that this is beautiful. But, we have to deepen our experience. This beauty is simply a spark.
And the whole is manifested in Krishna. So, that's why the Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha, we say, Dharma leads to Artha. Artha can mean money and the objects which can be bought through money, which will fulfill our desires, Kama.
So, Krishna is called as the Paramarth. He is the supreme Artha. So, the objects in this world are also Artha to some extent.
They are valuable for us, especially when they are existing in the world. But they can't give us lasting happiness. They can't give us lasting shelter.
Krishna alone can give that. So, in that sense, Bhakti directs us from Artha to Paramarth. So, Artha is the objects in this world which we are attracted to and Paramarth is Krishna.
So, rather than saying, Oh, everything attractive just falls in it. So, now, by Artha, I am referring here to the objects which are attractive in this world and Paramarth is Krishna. So, Artha is here, Paramarth is here.
Now, Anartha is when we are attracted only to the Artha and we forget the Paramarth. So, when we think of the worldly objects alone as attractive and we get captivated by them, forgetting Krishna, then they entangle us. But if the Artha can point us to Paramarth, if the Artha can be used in the service of Paramarth, so, if we have wealth, if we have knowledge, if we have strength, if we have beauty, all these resources, when we see them outside us, we see them as pointers to Krishna.
If we have them, we see them as tools by which we can connect ourselves to Krishna. If somebody has wealth, then that is an important resource in this world and that can be used for Krishna's service. Somebody has intelligence, that also can be used in Krishna's service.
Somebody has knowledge, somebody has strength, somebody has beauty, all of these can be used in Krishna's service. So, we don't simply reject them as false, but to think that they alone are the reality, that is false. So, Bhakti enables us to deepen our experience of reality.
So, not only is this about objects, this is also about experiences. In today's world, people are very much interested in spiritual experiences. Somebody says, Oh, I went here and I had this experience, it was a very spiritual experience.
At one level, we say this is all just, there is nothing spiritual about it. But at another level, Krishna says, So, whenever somebody, some people go to say, they go into a helicopter and they jump down with a parachute from the helicopter and they have a big adventure over there. Somebody climbs up a mountain, say Mount Everest, and they feel a great sense of thrill over there.
So, Krishna is saying that this thrill, I am that thrill. So, people's deepest experience is actually their experience of Krishna. But again, they don't know that it is the experience of Krishna.
And that's why that experience may not take them towards Krishna. Now, what is there in going up to a high mountain and feeling elated by going there? Actually, they are getting a, just by going to the top of that mountain, they are getting a sense of Krishna. There is a beautiful pastime in the Nilamrut, where Prabhupada was in Shakhapatnam, and then Prabhupada, the devotees were staying at a particular place, and there was a beach nearby.
So, Prabhupada went there, and he took a bath over there. And Prabhupada told the devotees, Come and swim. Now, the devotees are new, so they thought, you know, swimming is maya.
And then, one of the devotees asked Prabhupada, Prabhupada, isn't this maya? We are surrounded by water, Krishna says, I am the taste of water. Krishna says, I am the heat of the sun and the moon. He says, above us the sun and the heat and moon.
Krishna says, I am the fragrance of the wind. He says, we are surrounded by Krishna. How can we forget Krishna? Devotees, we were not remembering Krishna at all.
So, what happens is, the same experience, it can be undergone without any connection to Krishna, or that can be gone seeing the connection with Krishna. So, even when people have experiences, if we can see that this experience attracts them. So, what is it that attracts them? Millions of people go and watch sports matches.
What is it that they are attracted to in sports? They are attracted to a particular player. There are players who, there are millions of fans there. So, what is it that makes people attracted to them? There are players.
At that level, that player is manifesting some opulence that is a spark of Krishna's splendor. And thus people are getting so captivated by that. So, if we see the Krishna connection, then we can enable people, we can actually see that people are attracted to this sports player.
And you know, there is just one spark of Krishna's splendor. So, how much more Krishna will be attractive? And when we see this inclusive vision, Prabhupada also, on the way to Krishna, in that book Prabhupada says that if somebody is alcoholic and they can't give up alcohol, then they can think that the taste of alcohol is Krishna. Prabhupada says the taste of wine, the taste of liquor.
Krishna says I am the taste of water. Water is present in everything. So, the taste of wine is Krishna.
Prabhupada says by thinking about Krishna in this way, one day they will become a great devotee. It's not by drinking wine they will become a great devotee. It's by thinking about Krishna while drinking wine they will become a great devotee.
The point is the connection with Krishna. So, if this connection with Krishna is there, then that's what takes us closer to Krishna. So, Krishna is the Paramartha.
Paramartha means? So, here this is a verse from the book of Mahasutra. 9th verse. So, he is telling his own mind.
The Vaishnava poets often personify the mind or the tongue and they relied in Krishna. So, he says, oh my consciousness, just delight in Krishna. He says, Oh consciousness, don't stop delighting in Krishna.
Viramasva is to delight. Keep delighting in Krishna. What is this Krishna? He has lotus like eyes.
He has Shankha and he has Chakra. He is so heroic. He is the killer of the Muradiman.
Don't stop delighting in him. I don't know any happiness greater than happiness of connection with Krishna. Remembrance of Krishna as a nectar and there is no joy that is comparable with that.
So, going back to the example of the floor now. If water is flowing in a particular way because the floor is inclined, then what do we do? If we don't want the water to flow this way, just telling the water should not flow this way is not going to work. We need to do certain things.
There are three steps over there. First is that if the water is flowing this way, some restriction. If I just create some kind of wall or fence or just some elevated surface which blocks the water flowing there.
That's restriction. And if the water is going in this way, I may forcibly push the water in the other direction. That is redirection.
And ultimately if we want the water to flow in the other direction, we reconstruct the floor. But if it is inclined this way, we make it inclined that way. When that happens, then the water will naturally flow in that direction.
So, when we have anarthas, then the water of our consciousness is flowing towards the worldly objects. And when we develop artha pravrukti, then the water starts flowing towards Krishna. So, the restriction is what we talked about earlier.
Restriction means we protect ourselves with our intelligence. We avoid exposure to the lower taste. We minimize or avoid exposure to the lower taste and that way we protect ourselves.
We don't let the consciousness go in that direction. But even if it goes, then redirection. Redirection means we push our consciousness towards Krishna.
Consciousness goes to our sense objects, we push it towards Krishna. That is the whole process of sadhana bhakti. Where the mind will wander, but we get it back to Krishna.
Mind wanders, we again get it back to Krishna. And this is like the water flows in this direction, I push it in the other direction. Keep pushing it in the other direction.
But by this, what will happen? Gradually, the floor gets reconstructed. The floor gets reconstructed, then we become naturally attracted towards Krishna. So, that will happen gradually when we become purified.
So, purification basically means that the default desires of our mind change. Right now, our default desire, if I am not doing anything, I start thinking about something. What I think about, when I am not thinking about anything, that reflects my attachment.
So, when I am not, I just sit idly and have nothing to think about. My mind may go to money, my mind may go to sports, my mind may go to politics, my mind may go to sense indulgence, whatever it is. So, that's my attachment.
That means my mind, the floor of my consciousness is inclined in this way, it's going this way. But gradually, as we become purified, then it will go this way. So, if we have nothing to think about, automatically we will think about Krishna.
Now, that will happen gradually through the practice of sadhana bhakti. But for that, when we understand Krishna, it's not that we will be deprived of anything when we practice Krishna bhakti. Because whatever it is available over here, whatever attractive objects are there, the attractiveness of those objects manifest in its fullest in Krishna.
Through this understanding, we can become convinced that Krishna is the parmartha and he is the object to whom I should get attracted. So, I'll talk about pravrtti in the next session. Let me summarize what I spoke.
Then we can have some questions. So, I spoke about artha, or Krishna as the supreme object, or parmartha. In that I talked about what is the role of jnana in bhakti.
So, jnana which focuses on aikattva, on oneness with Krishna, that jnana is uncool to bhakti. Because in constitution, it denies the eternality of bhakti. In application, it is hardening of the heart.
And in destination, it leads to a termination of bhakti. But when the jnana is about the glory of Krishna, about the greatness and the sweetness of Krishna, then that jnana in its constitution itself, it actually focuses on how we are small in Krishna, the subordination of the jiva. In its application, it actually stabilizes our emotions in our relationship with Krishna.
Yes, Krishna is so wonderful, I want to be devoted to Him. And in destination, it actually gets us absorbed in Krishna's glories. So, this is how the jnana of Krishna's glories is favorable to bhakti.
And that is the jnana which we focus on in our devotional cultivations. Chaitanya Chaitanya also says that this understanding of Krishna, through philosophy, will make us fixed in, will make our mind fixed in Krishna. And so, in terms of the two metaphors, the two-level metaphor, the bhakti jnana helps us understand that okay, there is a higher level that exists.
And bhakti yoga is elevated to get to that higher level. And that whatever is attractive at this level, I am not going to miss it if I go to the higher level. Rather, all of it, and much more I will get.
Because whatever is attractive here, manifests a spark of Krishna's splendor. So, while we are at this level, we don't deny things are not attractive. They are attractive, but we don't get captivated by them.
You see that? Actually, this is just a spark. So, how much more Krishna will be attractive? So, it is with respect to objects, that their attractiveness comes from Krishna. And even the experiences people have, our deepest experiences are our experience of Krishna.
But we don't see that connection. So, if we can see that connection, then we can ourselves move towards Krishna through those experiences. And we can help others to move towards Krishna also.
And, in terms of the floor metaphor, we have to restrict through, so that whatever our anarthas are, we don't indiscriminately expose ourselves to those anarthas. Then, when the mind goes towards the sense objects, according to our anarthas, we push it towards the artha. So, from the anarthas, towards the artha, towards the paramarthas, we push our conscience.
That is the redirection. And ultimately, as we become purified, our default desire is changed. The mental floor becomes inclined towards Krishna.
And then we can become joyfully absorbed in Him. So, thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? Yes, sir.
We have… I just wondered if you could explain a little more about the experience. The experience and how you think about it. At our stage of developing the Krishna consciousness, we experience Krishna to the point where we have to push away the anarthas.
Okay. So, how can we, at our level, experience Krishna I would say about three different things. First is bhakti-paresha-anubhava-viraktiranyatra ca The Bhagavatam says in the 11th Canto that bhakti is the process that gives us para-isha-anubhava.
Anubhava is experience. Isha is the supreme lord. Para, who is transcendental.
That lord cannot be experienced simply with our senses. He is experienced through bhakti. So, if I go to the temple, and if my heart is dry, even if I look at the deities, I'll say, oh, this is just some decorated statues.
If I go in a devotional mood, I pray, then I experience Krishna over there. So, bhakti is the process that delivers experience of Krishna. And the result of that experience is viraktiranyatra ca.
The experience is so fulfilling that it leads to detachment from other things. So, we may feel that, I don't have any experience of Krishna. But the very fact that we are following the four regulative principles, we are detached from many worldly pleasures.
And it is not that we are constantly battling to stay away from those pleasures. Yes, we have some anarthas with which we are battling. But, broadly speaking, there are many pleasures which we were indulging in in the past that we have now just gone beyond.
So, that virakti itself is evidence that we have had some pareeshan. So, otherwise, if we had not had that, we would not have been able to give up those worldly pleasures. That's the first point.
Second point is that when we practice bhakti, when we experience Krishna also, we need jnana chakshu, we need the eyes of knowledge to understand that we are experiencing Krishna. So, say when a baby is new born, now a new born baby doesn't even know that there is a person called my mother. And the baby may be drinking milk from the mother's breast.
But the new born baby, very new born, this is just some, you know, something from which some nice object is coming and I am drinking it. Not even aware what it is. But as the baby starts growing, starts recognizing, oh, this is my mother.
And my mother giving me food. Mother giving me milk. And say it's a cold night and the baby is trembling.
The mother sees the baby is trembling. Mother comes and puts a blanket. Now the baby is asleep.
And so the baby, say she is a girl, she is not even aware. She has not opened her eyes to see that my mother has come and my mother has put the blanket. But just at one moment, the baby was feeling cold and shivering.
And the next moment, she feels comfortable and cozy and warm. She understands, oh, my mother must have put the blanket over here. And now, she has not opened her eyes and actually seen the mother.
But based on her knowledge, whatever little knowledge she has, that my mother loves me, my mother cares for me, my mother provides for me, she understands my mother must have put this blanket. So same way, for us right now, our spiritual eyes are closed. So, we can't see Krishna directly.
Eventually, our spiritual eyes will open and we will be able to see Krishna also. There is, at advanced stage, we should say there is Divya Pratyaksha. Just like we have Pratyaksha now.
You see with our senses. Divya Pratyaksha means when the soul's eyes awaken, soul's eyes open, then at our spiritual senses, we directly experience Krishna. But at our stage, so our eyes are closed, we can't perceive Krishna.
But we can experience relief whenever we become absorbed in Krishna. So we may be agitated by by desire, by worry, by anger, whatever. And if you somehow just get connected with Krishna, chanting his name, we hear kirtans, we take darshan, we start studying scripture, we get absorbed in Krishna.
And in that absorption, we immediately experience relief. We experience relief, that relief which we experience amidst desire or anger or distress or any other negative emotions. That is actually our experience of Krishna.
So right now, because our spiritual eyes are not open, we can't see that it is Krishna whom we are experiencing. Just like the baby in the first, I was feeling cold, now I am feeling comfortable. So this, this is my mother's love for me.
So actually for us, it is Krishna who manifests and he gives himself as, he manifests as the as the relief that we get. In Kapila's prayers, in Kapila's instructions, he says that my divorce is In hearing about my delightful pastime, they become so absorbed as they hear and speak about this. There are various miseries which we anyway go through in modern existence.
But I don't experience it because my consciousness, consciousness is absorbed in Krishna. So and in this way, the relief that we are experiencing at our level is an experience of Krishna. So the first time I came in 2015, when I came to America, I had gone to a university and there I spoke on regulating our mental diet.
So after that, one student came and told me that just before this class, I was contemplating suicide. You know, I had a he had been in a relationship with a girl and that girl had left him for some other boy. So he had felt frustrated.
And so he said, somehow I saw the poster of this boy and I thought, let me come here. He came for the program and he read, he heard, he said, now I understood that it is not I who want to commit suicide. It is actually my mind telling me to do this.
There is no need to, so I told him about chanting, I gave him Bhagavad Gita and I connected with the devotees there. It was the first time they had come. And then every year when I go, when I come there, I meet him, I go to the university every year.
So this year when I had gone, on the previous trip, so he told me at that time, he says two years afterwards, he said, again I faced a similar situation. I mean, I was in a relationship with some other girl, again she left me. But he said, this time, even the thought of suicide didn't enter in my mind.
You know, he likes to play, what is the instrument, guitar, which you put around the neck. Yeah, he likes to play a guitar. And he likes to sing.
So he said that, she sent a text message that we are breaking up. I don't want to see you. So he said, as soon as I got that, I just went to my room, closed my room, picked up my guitar and just started singing Hare Krishna.
And he said, six hours I was continuously singing. And he said, he said that was the sweetest experience of my whole life till now. So that which would have been otherwise the most distressing experience, because I was observing Krishna, it was the sweetest experience of my life.
So what has happened over here? That blanket. The mother has pulled the blanket. So, this is, there is no mystical view of Krishna, but we all have had this experience in our own way of relief when we become, we take shelter of Krishna, we become absorbed in Krishna.
So that is also our experience of Krishna. And third is that even when we are practicing bhakti, when we practice bhakti and just get the, get absorption. Sometimes we get the absorption, sometimes we don't get absorption.
Sometimes we practice bhakti and bhakti practice can become mechanical. Everyday I just chant, whatever, I do my devotional activities. But some days we experience, we just experience absorption.
So that absorption in, that absorption that we get is actually Krishna's reciprocation. So when we don't get the absorption, does that mean Krishna is not reciprocating? It's not that Krishna doesn't reciprocate. It is that our mind is very distracted so we are not able to connect with Krishna.
But whenever we do get absorption, that absorption just can make us, transports us to some other level of reality. So that itself is an experience of Krishna. So for us, this, the detachment that we have got from worldly things, the relief that we get, the detachment from worldly attachments, the relief amidst worldly distress and the absorption in Krishna, absorption in devotional activities, all these are the ways in which we can experience Krishna at our level.
Does that answer your question? Thank you. Yes, Mathew. Thank you.
Thank you. Yes, Mathew. Hare Krishna.
Mathew is here. So, you mentioned Bodhi and just kind of glossed over in the beginning and focused more on Jnana. But it appears to me that you mentioned Jnana but then in the second chapter of Bhagavad Gita, after Krishna mentions Sankhya, he mentions Bodhi Yoga many times.
It's about six or eight times where Krishna mentions Bodhi Yoga. And then there's the famous Dham Bodhi Yoga. And it seems that that Bodhi, which means intelligence, Srila Prabhupada just translates directly as Bhakti.
And so, so it seems like there's another level in between that's Jnana, Bodhi and then the more Krishna consciousness, Karma and Krishna, Jnana and Krishna consciousness. Just like the one chapter is Karma Yoga and then Karma Yoga and Krishna consciousness. So you have Jnana Yoga but then you have Bodhi Yoga which is Jnana Yoga as… I got you.
So I'm just wondering, is that a correct analogy or… Yeah. Okay. So Krishna talks about Bodhi and Bodhi Yoga in the second chapter several times.
And then we have Dham Bodhi Yoga also. So is Bodhi Yoga like an intermediate level, a level between say from Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga to Bhakti Yoga? As far as the standard paths are concerned, generally, there is no mention of Bodhi Yoga as a separate path. There's Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga, Dhyana Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga.
Now, the word Bodhi Yoga is, if you look at the context, Krishna uses it in different senses. The first time he uses it in 2.39, एशा ते अभीता सांक्य बुद्धिर योगे तो इमाम शुरू बुद्ध्या युग तो यया पार्थ कर्मवन्धन प्रहास्यसी So he says, till now I have explained it as a Sankhya, analysis of matter and spirit. इशा ते अभीता सांक्य बुद्धिर योगे तो इमाम शुरू Now let me explain to you in terms of the Yoga of intelligence or Yoga with intelligence.
We will just try to look at the meaning from the context and then we'll put all of them together. So, बुद्धिर योगे तो इमाम शुरू बुद्ध्या युग तो यया पार्थ If you act in this way with intelligence, if you engage yourself with the intelligence, then कर्मबन्धन प्रहासि will become free from the bondage of karma. So here Krishna is talking about बुद्धिर योगा as a process in which we apply the knowledge of Sankhya and which leads us to liberation from material bondage.
Now, there is another verse in the 18th chapter 18.56 Madash 18.56 which also talks about बुद्धि I'll talk about that and then I'll come back to 10.10 सर्वकर्माणि सर्वकर्माणि पिसदा कुर्वानु मध्यपाश्यया मत्प्रसाद दवापनूति शाश्वतं पदमावयं चेतसा सर्वकर्माणि मैं सन्यस्यमत्परः बुद्धियोगम पाश्यत्य मच्चित्ताजद दम्भवा चेतसा सर्वकर्माणि that with all your consciousness मैं सन्यस्य with your consciousness offer all your work to me मैं सेतसा सर्वकर्माणि मैं सन्यस्यमत्परः with me as the supreme goal बुद्धियोगम पाश्यत्य मच्चित्ताजद दम्भवा with बुद्धियोगम take shelter of me मच्चित्ताजद दम्भवा in this way always be conscious of me so here बुद्धियोगम is completely in devotion context so there it is बुद्धियोगम was in an analytical context of the body's whole difference here it is बुद्धियोगम is that which makes us conscious of Krishna and now when Krishna uses बुद्धियोगम in the 10.10 there he says that is the gift coming from him by which we can come to him बदामि बुद्धियोगम तम् येनमा उपयां दिते it is so we see this three levels at which Krishna uses the word बुद्धियोगम and so the understanding of the बुद्धि बुद्धि means intelligence intelligence also evolves or develops so at one level with the intelligence we understand I am not the body and the soul at another level with the intelligence I understand I hear Krishna's voice from within and I get guided and I make wise decisions at other level intelligence helps me to understand with intelligence I understand Krishna is the supreme reality and I become fixed in Krishna so in that sense बुद्धियोगम as it is used in the Bhagavad Gita is not referring to any particular path or any distinct path it is referring to the application of intelligence for the purpose of yoga so it is using intelligence for the purpose of yoga so now depending on the second chapter Krishna is primarily talking about कर्मयोग so in that sense the बुद्धियोगम refers to some extent you could say to कर्मयोगम in the 10th and the 18th chapters Krishna is referring to बुद्धियोगम in the devotional context so there it refers to भक्तियोगम now so Prabhupada when he does the translations in his Bhagavad Gita his focus is always on the essential conclusions he does not get into technicalities too much he does analyze the technicalities on many occasions but his focus is on the essential conclusions so that's how Prabhupada focuses on बुद्धियोगम as the process of devotional service so for us as practicing devotees yes we can say that when we study scripture when we hear classes then we are actually applying बुद्धि for the purpose of yoga so in that sense for us बुद्धियोगम and भक्तियोगम are equivalent we had a question behind behind in regards to seeing all experiences in relation to Krishna if I intercede then if they see in relation to Krishna it's just a spark of a splendor it can be like a spiritual elevating experience so what if I'm like I have some inclinations and I do them and then I put some effort into relating it to Krishna but really it's kind of like I'm just using as an excuse to indulge and then I just keep doing it and I don't really get anywhere yeah that's true so if I have certain inclinations and say if I like cricket I watch cricket and I say that I'm experiencing Krishna in the cricket well any philosophy can be Krishna talks in the 13th chapter ज्यानं गेयं ज्यान गम्यं there is knowledge there is object of knowledge and there is the objective of knowledge or the purpose of knowledge so unless the purpose of knowledge is kept properly in the center then even the best of knowledge can be misused so for example we have the we have Hiranyakashipu talking about Atma Gyan to the widow of Hiranyaksha and to his mother and he is talking essentially the same philosophy that Krishna is speaking to Arjuna but Krishna's conclusion to Arjuna is that we should become devoted to the Supreme Lord and Hiranyakashipu's conclusion is I'm going to kill the Supreme Lord and he says because I'm not the body, I'm the soul so even if I'm not able to kill Vishnu in this life, next life I'll reincarnate and in that way as many lifetimes is required to get the power of austerity by which I can kill Vishnu, I'll do austerity for that many lifetimes so knowledge and the purpose of knowledge are very important to both keep in mind without the purpose of knowledge the knowledge can easily be misused so we can justify anything in the Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrit Parpot Prabhupada says that there are some Mayavadis who say that actually Sarvam Kalmamidam Brahma so Prabhupada actually quotes Shankaracharya Shankaracharya was once walking along and they came to a liquor shop and he picked up a pot of liquor and just drank it, Sarvam Kalmamidam Krishna Sarvam Kalmamidam Brahma he drank it, his followers they also drank Sarvam Kalmamidam Brahma and then Shankaracharya went to a blacksmith shop and there there was molten iron he took that and he drank it Sarvam Kalmamidam Brahma he drank that and his followers they couldn't lick it so we cannot artificially act at levels which we are not at so Prabhupada says that actually yes even when alcoholic is drinking alcohol they are experiencing Krishna but when you talk about the Vibhutis of Krishna say there is Krishna's manifestations so some manifestations take us towards him some manifestations take us away from him so Krishna himself is at the transcendental level in the material level the Satvaguna, Rajoguna, Tamoguna all three exist so for example say there may be some some very intelligent atheist atheism itself is unintelligent but as far as logic is concerned, reasoning is concerned in terms of using arguments some atheists may be very intelligent also now that atheist intelligence also comes from Krishna but if I expose myself to that atheist intelligence what is going to happen is I am going to go away from Krishna on the other hand there may be a devotee also who is very intelligent and the devotee also logically refutes all arguments that devotee's intelligence is also coming from Krishna so where something is coming from is important but more important is where that thing is taking us so the atheist intelligence and the devotee's intelligence both come from Krishna but the atheist intelligence is going to take that atheist away from Krishna and is going to take us away from Krishna also if we expose ourselves to that devotee's intelligence takes the devotee towards Krishna and those who are exposed to the devotee's intelligence they also go towards Krishna so we have to keep the purpose in mind the philosophy always has a purpose so if we divorce the philosophy from the purpose then any philosophical object can be used for anything in India there was a movie where there was a serial killer and he would just kill people and whenever he would kill someone he would chant nainam chinnant chastrani nainam dhahati paavakal na jainam kledhanti apodashosheti varuta the soul cannot be pierced, the soul cannot be burned, the soul cannot be destroyed in India now the indestructibility of the soul is definitely not a license for indiscriminate violence so ma himse sarvabhutani as Prabhupada would quote we should not cause violence to anyone so that way if we keep the purpose of the philosophy in mind by all the Vedas I am to be known by all the Vedas I am to be known so then we can see for ourselves whether I am going closer to Krishna or I am not going closer to Krishna and then accordingly we have to we appreciate yes this is also an experience of Krishna but is am I able to connect it with Krishna if I am not able to connect with Krishna then better I don't expose myself to it does that answer your question? so if I am indulging in I use my awareness I am using the philosophy to indulge then that's one way I can kind of buffer against the activity that was the first point right? and then so the next thing is that if there is a temptation to indulge in the activity then so I I want to use the philosophy so I have some okay so if there is the desire to engage in some activity and but we also want to move towards Krishna and what do we do? yeah so basically I would say that whatever desires we have we can broadly classify them into one level classification is material and spiritual another level classification we could do is there are some there are pro devotional desires there are non devotional desires there are anti devotional desires so for example desires that involve breaking of the regulative principles they are anti devotional and those we have to fight and give them up but then there are some pro devotional desires say if I learn some skills if I learn music, I learn language I learn cooking, I learn whatever different skills can directly be used in Krishna's service that is a pro devotional desire and there can be some desires that are non devotional I just have some curiosity of history geography, whatever different subjects so now as I said in the earlier class we may not be able to give up all desires immediately each of us will have to decide how we process our desires we can't repress or deny them so if a particular desire is strong and if that's what we feel inspired to do then we can do that and we can try to find some connection with Krishna so somebody may become a scientist and then in their particular field of science they may try to see how can I connect this with Krishna if somebody is an artist they become an artist and then afterwards they can see how can I use this art in Krishna's service so that way it's not at one level the the purpose of our life ultimately is to go towards Krishna but all of us we are at different stages of our own spiritual evolution so how we will move towards Krishna we cannot have one formula for everyone so every devotee will have to take their individual decisions so if we have a desire to explore to go into a particular field then we can ourselves use our intelligence to see ok how can I connect this with Krishna in some ways or maybe then if there are some other devotees working in that field then we ask them how do you connect this with Krishna so that way if we are if we are not rationalizing whatever we want to do and calling it devotional service but we want to do something and we also want to find out how we can use it in devotional service and that's fine Krishna will reveal in some way in future maybe how we can use it in devotional service because while we are in this world we also have to work in this world and Krishna says that by your work you worship me so Arjuna when he was training to become an archer he worked very hard day and night all night he would be practicing archery that's one of the reasons why he got the name Gudakesh one who has conquered sleep at that time Arjuna did not necessarily know that in the future there is going to be a Dharma Yuddha in which I am going to fight for Krishna and my archery skill will be of use to me but this archery skill was his duty as a Kshatriya and he excelled in it and eventually he was able to use it in Krishna's service so if we have some interest as long as we don't get so consumed by those interest that we give up Krishna Bhakti for their sake for its sake then as a profession or as an interest we may engage in it and try to connect it with Krishna to the best of our capacity does that answer your question? thank you I listened to your lecture previously on aversion and attachment and devotion on the difference between renunciation and aversion and attachment and I am seeing a lot of parallels in connection with the seminar and I kind of want to understand if you can understand the parallel between emotional investment and realizing that intelligence directly towards Krishna and being able to delve so much into it does that make sense? I will repeat the question tell me if I got it so you are saying that there is we can invest our emotions in Krishna and we can direct our intelligence in Krishna's service and there is dovetailing our anarthas in Krishna's service so are the two different how do we do this? so I would say as far as dovetailing the anarthas is concerned that is something which is very specific say in Narottam Das Thakur's song he says he says kama kama means desire so we use the desire to work for Krishna and we use our power of desire to fulfill Krishna's desire kama krishna karma arpane Ambarish Mahadav said that he made his desires the servant of Krishna's desires so kama krishna karma arpane krodha bhakta dveshi jane like that there is a whole series if there is anger we have we direct the anger towards those who are envious of Krishna who are blasphemers of Krishna that doesn't mean go and beat them up when directing the anger means anger also is an energy and it has to be directed properly we use that anger to systematically logically rationally refute their misconceptions that is properly channeled but that is how it is talked about now for doing this we do require to use our intelligence so whatever be my particular conditioning or interest or nature if I am going to dovetail in Krishna's service I have to first of all have my intelligence very clear and if you consider say if this is the circle of bhakti and this is the circle of my interests as per my own my own nature my own conditionings whatever so then there is some point of intersection among the two say I like Sanskrit and scriptures are in Sanskrit I like English and English is the medium by which we are speaking we can speak about Krishna to most people today many people today so now if you consider intersection of the two that is where we want to be situated at least in the sadhaka stage and that is where we will be stable if it is of no interest to us and it is only for Krishna's interest then we will not be able to we will feel that as if we are being deprived and occasionally we may do that but on a steady basis that is the whole principle of an ashram a brahmana has interest in brahmanical activities but the brahmana has the brahmanical activities for Krishna a kshatriya wants to manage wants to control to rule and they do it for Krishna so now as far as emotional investment that is our circle of interest that is where we are already emotionally invested but instead of getting emotionally invested in those things which are not connected with Krishna we focus on those things which are of our interest which are also connected with Krishna and gradually as we keep practicing bhakti then we will move our circle of interest will overlap more and more with Krishna and we will become more and more emotionally invested in Krishna so say initially somebody just likes to sing and they may sing initially they may be singing mundane songs and they come and sing Krishna songs also so their interest is primarily in singing but they sing about Krishna that is their intersection point but over a period of time by singing about Krishna they start realizing that actually there is something special in singing about Krishna when I sing mundane songs I don't get that special thing which I get over here and thus their interest will not just be only in singing it will become in singing for Krishna so that's how we can we need to use our intelligence to move where we are emotionally invested not just in mundane things to the intersection of Krishna and our interest and then from there more and more to Krishna directly does that answer your question? thank you one last question we have one more session yeah and it's going to be what? on Pravrutti we are talking about how Krishna is Rasa Raj and I am going to talk about the concept of Rasa based on Bhakti Samrut and Uddipan and Alamban what are all those we talk about that so we will have a break now and we will be back at 3.25 thank you very much.