From Grudging to Gratitude 4 – Forgiving internally and externally by focusing on Krishna

Transcription of summary So, I will be going towards the last phase of our session, and I will talk now about forgiveness and gratitude.. So, to retrace the journey quickly what we did was, we discussed in the first session how resentment is harmful for us. In the second session we discussed how pinning down the cause of suffering is very difficult. We shouldn’t obsess with the immediate cause. Then we discussed about how Krishna is the person…. how we can go beyond… while we should not sit down and focus on the immediate cause. At the same time we shouldn’t either neglect the immediate cause. We focus on taking shelter of Krishna, and whatever the problem we are facing by taking shelter of Krishna we will get relief. Then we had lot of questions and answers. Now I will focus on the themes of how to deal with the immediate cause. So, when resentment comes… when we are resentful especially with respect to some person who has done something which has hurt us. Now forgiveness is often lotted?1.26 as a virtue, and the Bhagavatam talks about how important it is for us to forgive. Forgiveness is a defining quality of a brahmanical  person, the Bhagavatam says. At the same time we have to really understand what forgiveness means and what it doesn’t mean. Forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean that we just press a delete button in our brain and forget all the wrongs that they had done. Forgiving and trusting are two different things. Forgiving is for the past. Trust is for the future. Forgiveness can be given, but trust has to earned. If somebody has hurt us, if we again trusting them again they may hurt us and if we uncritically trust people we can set up ourselves for a lot of unnecessary pain. So, forgiveness is for the past. That means, whatever has happened… ‘Ok this person did this and because of this, this went wrong, Ok that chapter is over, and I won’t hold that in my mind constantly.’ Now I will talk a little bit more about what it means to forgive also, but clearly differentiate that forgiving and trusting are two different things. If somebody has hurt us we just can’t automatically trust him, we will naturally observe how this person behaves, is this person really trustworthy? And that person has to work to earn that trust. So, I will start with first internal aspect of forgiveness, and the second is, we will look at the external aspect of this. The internal aspect of forgiveness means that we let go off resentment against the person. ‘Ok, this person did this to me and it hurt me directly but it’s over now. So, you did that and now I don’t want to hold that against you. I won’t let that come in the way of my moving forward in my life. Not necessarily moving forward in that relation, but we will talk about that particular relationship later, but forgiving means that we just let the past stay in the past. Now in our computer we have some files that we don’t need, then we can just remove it. There is no delete function in our memory. So, if somebody has hurt us we can’t just delete that memory, but forgiving means… forgiving creates a new way of remembering the hurt. Now, when in the past if we had not forgiven and we remember that hurt we still feel angry or sick, we feel wronged, we feel violated, we feel betrayed, but when we forgive we just let go. That incident is still there, that memory is still there, but once we let go… it is almost like, Ok it happened to me but it was in the distant past. Basically we are…when we are not forgiven, when we are resentful, then we are still emotionally locked in that, and when we are emotionally locked in it, then we are emotionally available for other things, for other relationships, for a relationship with Krishna, but you say, ‘Ok this chapter is over now.’ You just release those pent up emotions. When we do that, just remember, ‘This thing happened in my life, at that time it was painful but now it is over. So, usually many times when we talk about these things, about forgiveness, is it an emotion or is it a decision? Is it an emotion I feel or is it is a decision? Actually it is both… In the Bhagavat Gita, Krishna talks about the austerity of the mind.

manaḥ-prasādaḥ saumyatvaṁ maunam ātma-vinigrahaḥ bhāva-saṁśuddhir ity etat tapo mānasam ucyate

So, there He says, satisfaction is an austerity of the mind. What does it mean that satisfaction is an austerity of the mind. That means that, you may say, ‘I am feeling satisfied… I am not feeling satisfied.’ So, we may say that satisfaction is just an emotion that experience. Yes, it is true that satisfaction is an emotion that we experience, but satisfaction is also a decision that we take. Now if I look at all the things that are right in my life, I will be satisfied. But if look at all the things that are wrong in my life, I will be dissatisfied. So, depending on what I look at, I will be satisfied or dissatisfied. So, similarly satisfaction can be a decision. ‘Ok this is what I have got and I will focus on this.’ In general when we think of satisfaction or for that matter forgiveness it is both an emotion and decision. So, it’s a decision. ‘I am not going to hold any resentment against this person. That chapter in my life is over. I …06.55…57… (inaudible). When this happens, the emotions that are locked in it, sometimes you may have to consciously pull them out and invest them somewhere else, and if we just make that decision, sometimes as a matter of …07.07…(inaudible) When we remember something we feel so much anger, we feel so much pain, but as we start practicing bhakti, as we start connecting with Krishna, as we start getting purified, when we remember that… it is like an incident from a past life, but we are not so emotionally locked in it. So, we don’t get so emotionally worked up about it. So, as I said these decisions we have to take. If we don’t take those decisions, then what is going to happen? Then the emotion of forgiveness will never come. Just like say, if I got a scratch on my body. Now if that would is there, that rash is there, as long as I keep scratching, it is going to go worse. After I stop scratching there is a chance that it will recover. So, like that whatever happened in the past, if I keep remembering it and If I keep resenting it, then that would is never going to heal. The wound is there, but if we just make a decision, ‘Enough. This chapter in my life is over.’ Then we move onward in my life. Krishna has blessed me with a better life in my life, and I am going to move onwards. Krishna is so much more waiting for me in my life. So, let me not get locked in the past. Let me be open to what He is giving me. So, when we take that decision, we gradually facilitate the awakening of that emotion. So, forgiveness is a decision. To let go off resentment. Gradually that resentment will go away. Now with respect to practicalities… internal aspect of forgiveness is that you let go off resentment… with externals what do we do? There will be… as I said forgiving and trusting are two different things. So, usually there will be a phase, when we forgive but we don’t trust, and then we observe, then depending on how that person behaves that person may earn our trust, and then we may forgive and forget that thing. ‘I will never bring it up, it is over now.’ Sometimes that person may continue to behave the same way, or sometimes he may get aggravated. When that happens, then we realize that this is… I need external actions, and then we may have to take some external rectificatory actions that is required. I will give some examples for this. I have a three part seminar on forgiveness. So, I won’t go into that. This 9.42 the scriptural story and I presume that most of you know the stories. I won’t go into the details. There is the story in the Ramayana, that how after Ravana was killed… Bibhisan, he said that, ‘I can’t perform the last rights of cremation of Ravana.’ So, all his family was killed, Bibhisan was the only rother. At that time Ram said, ‘The soul is pure, whatever sin he has done, now that’s cleansed off that. Now you should perform …10.14… Then the soul move on the next destination. So, now that he has got the due punishment for what he has done… he is dead, don’t hold grudges against the dead.’ So, Ram asked Bibhishan to let go, to forgive whatever he has done, but this forgiveness doesn’t mean that Ram just let Ravana to get away with that 10.38 (inaudible)… he should be punished. So, in this case Ravana was incorrigible. Ravana was completely incorrigible. So, Ram forgave in principle… told Bibhisan, ‘give up the negativity.’, but Ram sent Hanuman as a messenger, Angad went as a messanger, Bibhisan gave good advices, so many gave good advice but Ravana had no interest. Then he had to be punished for that. Now other example is of Vasudev. So, here there is a person who forgave but there is a strong external action against the person. On the other hand, the other example could be, ‘You forgive but do not trust, and watch what happens.’ So, Kamsa killed six of the children of Devaki, and then after the… when the eight child was born, and he turned out to be a female, and it turned out to be the goddess, he was alarmed, ‘What happened….’ he almost had a change of heart. He said, ‘A goddess is born from Devaki, that means that she is a special woman.’ And he actually seeks forgiveness, ‘Actually I didn’t kill. It because of their past karma only they were killed. Don’t hold me responsible, please forgive me.’ Now, Vasudev and Devaki forgave him. That’s what the Bhagavatam says, but Vasudev did not trust him. He didn’t tell him, ‘Actually you know Krishna is born, and he is in Vrindavan.’ He did not tell that. Because he had to wait and watch, how genuine was his change of heart, and eventually it turned out that the change of heart of Kamsa was not at all genuine. Eventually when he came to know that Krishna was still living, he sent so many demons to kill Krishna. Then eventually Krishna came and killed Kamsa. So, in this case Vasudev forgave but did not trust, did not hold that resentment. He was ready to…ok, it is over, but it was his saintliness that he was ready to forgive even that. Though it was a grievous offense, but he was ready to forgive. But forgiving and trusting are two different things. Third example we have is of Vidura and Dhrtarastra. Now Vidura was the younger brother, and Dhrtarastra time and time again… Vidura tried to advice Dhrtarastra to stop antagonising the Pandavas. Dhrtarastra never listened. At one particular point, Dhrtarastra got so angry with Vidura, he said Vidura, ‘You are always against my son, and you are in favour of Pandu’s son. I don’t want to hear what you want to say. Go wherever you want.’ So, this happened just after the Pandavas had been exiled. So, at that time Vidura left. Vidura actually went and joined the Pandavas, where they were staying in the forest, and then afterwards Dhrtarastra had a change of heart and he said, ‘Though my brother was always a well-wisher. He always gave me good advice, why did I send him away? So, he sent Sanjay, ‘Please call Vidura back.’ Now Vidura came back, because Vidura saw that Dhrtarastra himself was not a bad person, he was attached to a bad person. Detachment to a bad person had… 14.14-15 (inaudible). So, felt that there is some hope for Vidura that he could be reformed. Bibhisan, when he renounced the kingdom, then Ravana, he went to the opposite side and fought for Ram because he realized that Ravana has no hope of ever reforming. He fought against Ravana and he helped Ram attain Victory. Vidura he came back at this time, and again and again he gave would give good advice but he never listened, and just before the war, Duryodhana had grievously insulted Vidura, and now you know traditional culture are very very hierarchical. So, you know generally for a younger person, for a junior to even speak against a senior is very bad, what to speak of a junior person to speak insult to a senior in public. So, Duryodhana was one generation lower and he publicly insulted Vidura, and Vidura it was not just Duryodhana’s words that hurt, Its also actually Dhritarastra’s silence that hurt. Now sometimes the harsh words of our opponents don’t hurt us as much as the silence of our friends. So, he had reason to be angry with Dhirtarastra. He just walked away at that time. But then he did not hold it against him. Eventually when Duryodhana was killed… all the hundred sons of Dhrtarastra were killed, the Dhrtarastra’s attachment was gone. Now Dhrtarastra had to lose everything before he lost his blindness. He was blinded by his attachment to his son, and he had to use all his sons, he had to lose everything before lost his attachment, and then Vidura came back, Vidura did not hold it against Dhrtarastra… ‘You insulted me like this, you remained silent like this and insulted me….’ Nothing like that. Vidura when he came, he just spoke direct spiritual message and helped Dhrtarastra to 16.30… So, in this case what happened is, Vidura forgave, and he forgave Dhritarastra although Dhritrarasta had insulted him, rejected him, remained silent when he had been insulted. Vidura did not hold it against him, but he helped him. He was there to help him. Why? Because he felt that Dhrtarastra could change, and Dhrtarastra did change, and eventually both of them attained liberation. So, here the main point I would like to make in this discussion is that how we deal with a person… forgiving can be done by one person, but reconciling has to be done by  two people. So, when we reconcile with someone that person has to have the willingness to change, to improve… Now all this of course is assuming that the other person done something wrong and they deserved to be forgiven or we are considering their forgiveness. Sometimes we ourselves may have done something wrong, and we may not downplay it. That is a whole complex subject of 17.37… resolution. We are simply focussing right now on…. on the simple situation where the other person has done something wrong and whether to forgive them and whether to mourn in our life. Now, as I said firstly internal forgiveness helps us to mourn with our own life, irrespective of that particular relationship, and without that internal forgiveness we can’t move on in that relationship and we can’t move on in that life… in our life also. We just stay stuck mentally. So, we just let go, and with that forgiveness we can move on in that particular relationship. Now we can morn in our life, and how to move on in that particular relationship, that will vary. So, usually we have to assess what that persons nature is, what that persons consciousness is, what that person’s level of remorse is. These are not something which are easy to assess, and that is why the major relationship decisions shouldn’t be taken too emotionally. Emotions are important, very important in our life, but emotions should never be made the sole arbiters of our decision making. We have to have our emotions and we have to evaluate those emotions in the light of dharma. So, in the light of what is going to elevate us and what is going to degrade us. So, if somebody has… sometimes there is a mistake that is being made, but there is a… all of a sudden… the person has normally a good character, they are nice people but suddenly they slip, it may be a big mistake, and it has hurt us but if it is just a one of thing, then there is no need to hold that up against the person and beat that person throughout life with that. We all commit mistakes. Sometimes some of us commit bigger mistakes than others. So, we need to be understanding. What is the understanding… just as you know past karma comes upon as suffering. Sometimes say past karma comes upon us as…. suddenly things go wrong or that thing goes wrong, our health goes down, we meet with an accident or whatever. Past karma can come as external problems. Similarly, past karma can also come sometimes as internal passions. Suddenly a person may get lusty, suddenly a person may become greedy, suddenly a person may become angry, and that is just….. sometimes for no reason from this life’s perspective a person just appears completely out of character, and if that is just a one time sin… ok.. there will always be some residual doubt in our heart, but you don’t have to hold that against anyone, but you know if one time a person does wrong, and we forgive, so that is good. If the person is doing the same mistake again and again, each time they are hurting us grievously, then the thing is that, we may well be… we may just be…. in the name of forgiveness we may be empowering their  wrong doing. That means if somebody is doing something wrong again and again and they know that we are going to forgive, that we are going to overlook at it, what happens, we are just making that wrong again and again. So, then sometimes we just have to take a strong position, ‘I know I love you too much to let this go on.’, he will say, ‘No you don’t love me enough, that is why you are not forgiving me.’, ‘No, I love you so much that I cannot let this go on, because this is path which is dangerous for you.’ So, sometimes we may have to take a strong stand, and that strong stand is not exactly unforgiving. The forgiveness as I said… the internal feeling of not… you know like resentment is good, but the external how we act… we have to understand that… actually we are in a relationship with others, and we have duties in the relationships. The other people also have duties in the relationships, and if the other person is repeatedly hurting us again and again, then we have to focus on our relationship with Krishna, and we have to make sure that we keep moving towards Krishna. This doesn’t mean that we trivialise our relationships, but we should not let any relationship dominate our consciousness so much that we are just not able to function in our life, we are not able to function in our journey towards Krishna, or function in our routine life also. So, at that time… if you look at the.. the way the scriptures talk about this… there are ksatriyas and there are brahmanas. Brahmanas are not managers. So, brahamanas are encouraged to forgive. Whatever happens just forgive, but ksatriyas are not encouraged to forgive. Ksastriyas duty is to punish. If a thief has robbed a person, the king starts forgiving. If the police start forgiving criminals, that will be terrible. Always a system of justice is required. So, now when we come to… there has to be… forgiveness can and should be individual virtue, but forgiveness is never a social virtue. In terms of social administration there has to be justice and justice means, wrong doings have to be punished. So, generally what is the purpose of punishment? When somebody is being punished, what is the purpose. Actually broadly speaking there are three purposes. One is through the punishment, it is demonstrated to people in general, this action has this consequence. Justice is not to be done… justice is not just to be done, justice should also be seen to be done. People realize that if I do this wrong, this consequence will come. So, this if for the education for the people in general that the wrong doers will be punished. Secondly, it is for the individual also to bear the consequences of what wrong we have done, and it for the hurt person to recognize that their hurt is also taken seriously. So now, this is at a social level….when we are acting in our individual relationships… now generally we act at the brahminical platform. We don’t go to the ksatriya mode usually. There are family conflicts and they become very very… unbearable people may go to courts and try to resolve them in courts. It simply makes things worse. But, here when we are talking about interpersonal dealings, at that time the small infractions, we don’t have to hold them against people. Just mourn in our life, ‘Everybody is imperfect and everybody will commit some mistakes or the other.’ And now whether if somebody is repeatedly doing something… what am I to do with that situation? Am I just to walk away from that relationship and move on or am going to take action against the person. All these depends on the situation. All these depends on the situation, all these depends on the individual, what kind of wrong thing has been done, and the important principle in our spiritual life is that we want to focus on our relationship with Krishna, and sometimes as a service to Krishna we may try to do a particular thing. Sometimes we may feel, ‘I am not interested in these things. This chapter happened in my life. I have better things to do in my life.’ So, again going back to the earlier things, tolerating, changing or walking away, all these three can be modes of forgiving. Sometimes… ok, this is a small indiscretion, this a small mistake, let’s tolerate it and move on. Sometimes it can’t be tolerated. That is… it’s not that we don’t forgive the person, we forgive the person but we understand that if this behaviour is tolerated it will be repeated, and when it is repeated, that person may hurt again and again, not just me, other people also. Then some action has to be taken. Sometimes some disciplinary action may be pursued, but that can be done in a non-judging, in a non-resentful, non-revengeful mood. In the Bhagavat Gita Krishna talks about how in the 11^th chapter He reveals the Viswarup in which all the kauravas are entering into the mouth of the Viswarup and they are being destroyed. Basically what it is showing is that actually Krishna is…. that Krishna is showing that Arjuna you are going to be victorious in the war… and he was not going to be killed, and Krishna gives a clarion call to Arjuna… Tasmat uttisya yasho labhasye….

tasmāt tvam uttiṣṭha yaśo labhasva jitvā śatrūn bhuṅkṣva rājyaṁ samṛddham mayaivaite nihatāḥ pūrvam eva nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin

Krishna says, ‘By my arrangement they are all killed. Just become an instrument in the fight. Attain victory. Enjoy prosperously.’ Krishna is telling Arjuna, ‘Fight over there.’ But then this is 11.33. 22 verses later, in 11.55, in the same Bhagavat Gita Krishna says, ‘Arjuna…

mat-karma-kṛn mat-paramo mad-bhaktaḥ saṅga-varjitaḥ nirvairaḥ sarva-bhūteṣu yaḥ sa mām eti pāṇḍava

He says, ‘Work for Me without animosity towards any living being, and if you work like this, this way you will come to me.’ So, that means Krishna is saying, ‘Fight Arjuna, but don’t fight with animosity.’ Yesterday I mentioned about how when somebody has hurt us, the snake has bitten us, the priority is not to get back at the snake. Our priority is to get safe. Don’t get back, get safe. Now I will extend that further… that was on a satwaguni level… I don’t want to hurt myself, but here we have to move forward… Our life is not meant to get back at others, our life is meant to get back to Krishna. We want to get back to Krishna, and in order to get back to Krishna we have to deal appropriately. If we keep the long term purpose of attaining Krishna in our mind at the forefront, then how to deal with the particular situation? We will learn in appropriately because Prabhupada writes in the tenth chapter… tenth chapter of the Bhagavat Gita, in the purports. He says, intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective. Intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective.. ‘This is so important, this is less important, this is not at all important.. So, we see things in proper perspective and then we decide how much time, how much energy to invest in what. As devotees… it is especially in devotional relationships… it is good to be forgiving because as I said grudging hurts, and forgiving as an internal activity gives us a sense of relief by which we can move onwards, by which we can move closer to Krishna, and as far as externals are concerned, most of us we want to live a brahminical life. Some of us as managers in our movements… we are doing a ksatriya role at least… so, we may have to take appropriate disciplinary action and in the outside world we may have to fill particular roles, and we have to act accordingly to the roles. The unifying principle is the attitude of service. ‘Krishna I am Your servant. How best can I serve You in this situation?’ So, the whole principle of advancement in bhakti is all based on asking the right questions. When Srila Prabhupada was asked, ‘What is the best prayer that you can offer to Krishna?’, Prabhupada said, ‘Pray to Krishna, Please give me the strength to serve You. Krishna, how can I serve You?’ The How question is an extremely empowering question. In contrast the Why question is an extremely disempowering question. Why.. why …why.. why did this happen… why did this go wrong…. the why question will cause us to get mentally paralysed. Many times in life the why question just… itself has no answer. So, as long as we are stuck with the why question… why, why, why … why did this person do that, why did person do this… for the why question sometimes we get no answer. It is said that we should all learn from the pastimes, we should learn from our mistakes. Yes, it is true we should learn from our mistakes, but sometimes some situations happen in such a way in our life, that it was the best thing that we can learn is to stop trying to learn. What I mean by that is, not that you shouldn’t try to learn, but that if you are too emotionally close to a situation, we can’t learn from that at that time. If the wound is too raw, and the more we think of it the more it hurts. If we want to learn from a situation there has to be certain amount of distance, there has to be certain amount of detachment. There is a difference between learning from the past and lamenting about the past, resenting the past, holding grudges etc. So, we may say, ‘I want to learn from the past.’ The key difference between learning from the past and lamenting about the past or grudging the past… the key difference is, who is in control? When I am learning from the past, I am in control, and I take my mind, I take my consciousness to the past… this event happened, I spoke like this, he spoke like that, and then I did like this, I could have done that, that person could have done like this…we calmly analyze and then when we calmly analyze, then when we are in control we take our thought to this event, and then we draw our thoughts out and we learn some lessons. So, when we are in control then we can learn, but when we are lamenting, when we are resenting, then we are not in control, our mind is in control. The mind just takes us on a ride, and this is not a joyful ride, it’s a painful ride. Now we are in one place… the mind… why did he do that? It’s such a terrible thing, it’s such a horrible thing, such a nasty thing, just… once…1,2,3,4,5…. he remembers the incidents and it is all just agony, agony, agony.. So, sometimes when the wound is too raw, we just can’t… we have the distance to…we just don’t have the distance to go back and learn. So, at that time it is just best to take shelter of Krishna. Stop thinking about the situation, just focus on connecting with Krishna, absorbing ourselves in Krishna, gradually our emotional temperature will go down. When the emotional temperature is too high, you just can’t think clearly. So, get the emotional temperature down. Once you get the emotional temperature down, then there is capacity for rational analysis and learning, what to do in this situation? So, now when we are trying to decide, ‘Ok, in this particular situation this person did like this, what I should do now?’ So, generally speaking it is best that we talk with each other, instead we talk about each other. What happens… if A has done something to B, what happens B goes and tells it to C, ‘ You know what A did.. like this, like this’…. ‘Ah really!’, then C goes and tell this to D, and then D goes and tells A, and then A feels, ‘Oh B is backbiting against me.’ , and what happens A goes and tells this to E, E goes and tells F, and F goes an tells B… and then just things become a big mess. So, if we have some issues with some people, it is best to talk with them. We may need to talk with someone else to get a better perspective, but then that person should be trustworthy. Just keep talking about others instead of talking with others, that makes a big mess of things. So, this talkig with others directly, it helps in resolving issues. Resolving doesn’t mean necessarily the conflict will be resolved. Resolving doesn’t necessarily mean that the issue will be solved, but at least we understand who stands there. Otherwise we are all getting second hand perspectives, and we don’t know who, what, who really said. So much time goes in clarifications or in misconceptions that are created because of inappropriate communication. So, if we understand this person, if we talk with people directly then we understand that this person is like this, this person is like this, just leave it. I will talk two more points: One point is with respect to the forgiveness itself that when we are dealing with others, the important thing is that we just don’t deal with them, we are dealing with Krishna also. With every interaction that we have with anyone, that is also an expression of our relation with Krishna. Sometimes we relate Krishna through people who are very kind and loving. Sometimes we relate Krishna through people who are very unloving and unkind. So with both kind of people we are ultimately relating with Krishna, and Krishna’s love for us can come through different people at different times. So, somebody may have been very kind to us at a particular time, and when that person does something which hurts us, it’s even more painful, because if we know somebody as an enemy and we go close to them, we know they are going to hit us, so we are ready, we are guarded ourselves up to be hit, but if we go to someone who may love us and we expect a pat, and at time we get a punch, that hurts all the more. So, like that some people may hurt us directly. So, need to see the Krishna connection. Krishna connection means that actually it is Krishna who is offering His love to  …37.30-34… That person is not an independent agent …. Yes, that person… we are not denying the agency of that person, we are not minimizing or rejecting the fact that this person is offering some love, but it is ultimately Krishna who loves us, and Krishna expresses love through this person, and that same Krishna express His love through some other person. One of the most intimate acts of love is say, when a baby is new born, mother offers her own breast milk to the child. Now that is an expression of mothers love. At the same time is it only the mother’s love? The same child that… actually when the child is born, the mother doesn’t do anything special to produce 38.26-38.28.. The same God who has sent a child to the mother’s womb, also sends milk in her breast. So, it is Krishna who is expressing the love through the mother. That doesn’t mean that the mother is unimportant, but it is not that we stay stuck 38.46-48… When Dhruva Maharaj was a small boy, at that time his offers him so much love and care. In fact his mother offers him  love of both the mother and the father, because his father is simply attached to his other wife, and because of that he pays all his attention to her and her child. So, his mother does all that she can for him, but then when Dhruva is terribly insulted because his father neglects him, and what does his mother tell him… she tells him, ‘ I cannot help you at this point, it is Lord Visnu who can help you.’, and she says, ‘Lord Visnu can offer you more love than what millions of mothers like me can offer.’ So, she is not denying the reality of her love for her child, but she is recognizing it’s limitation. ‘Now my child, I cannot offer you anything. Go and take shelter of Visnu.’ For a mother to… for a mother of five year child to tell him to go to the forest, it’s incredible. Which mother can do that, but she realized that she can’t help him at that time. So, Dhruva actually goes to the forest, and Krishna arranges for him… and eventually he has darhan of Krishna. So, when anyone offers us love, it is Krishna who is offering that love through them. So, all good things comes from Krishna, but all good things don’t always take us to Krishna. All good things comes from Krishna. So, somebody is very loving, somebody is very kind, it’s Krishna’s love which is coming through them, but sometimes that person may start behaving in a unreasonable way, maybe they will start behaving in a abusive way, in a violent way, harmful way. So, now what we understand that the same Krishna who is offering me love, may not offer love for this person. Krishna may offer love to someone else. So, we have a need for love, and need for love is to be fulfilled, but if we let that get restricted to only one person, then we become emotionally dependent on that person. When we become emotionally dependent on that person that chokes our 41.06.So, we have to recognize that, ‘Yes, that same Krishna can offer me love from different people at different times, and ultimately it is Krishna who is the source of that love.’ Draupadi had five husbands, but a time came in her life when nobody could help her. What did she do? She did not keep blaming her husbands… Why are you not helping me? They are not able to help, so she took shelter of Krishna. So, her husbands were devotees of Krishna, and they were doing their duty of protecting her, but at that particular point they could not do anything. So, sometimes in our life when we see that a particular door is closed… Yes, there is particular person involved, and there is a particular dynamics of that person involved but more important you see is, whatever I was getting… it was… you know if this person was attracted to me in some way… everything attractive in this world reflects a spark of Krishna’s attractiveness.

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ mama tejo-’ṁśa-sambhavam

That whatever is attractive in this world, it reflects a spark of Krishnas spendour. So, that means that whatever we are attracted to, it is a spark of Krishna’s splendour. So, yes Krishna’s attractiveness was manifesting in the form of a spark from this person, but now it is no longer manifesting. Something is wrong. So, now let me focus on Krishna. So, we acknowledge the medium, we acknowledge the instrument, but we also acknowledge the source, and our primary relationship has to be with the source. We have horizontal relationships in this world, and we have a vertical relationship with Krishna. Now, the ideal situation is… when the horizontal relationships and the vertical relationships are symbiotic, that means that we have our loved ones, they are also interested in practicing bhakti, and sometimes we feel relax, we feel disheartened and they encourage us. Sometimes they feel relax, and we encourage them, and the horizontal relationship strengthens the vertical relationship, and similarly the vertical relationship strengthens the horizontal relationship. Now, when we are connected with Krishna, when we are practicing bhakti, then by the practice of bhakti, we by the connection of Krishna through that practice we get a certain level of inner stability, inner maturity, then we are not so dependent on others. Now, in every relationship, whatever a person does that we often… we are relational creatures. So, we often define ourselves through our relationships. Now, when children see that their parents are not around them most of the time, then children don’t just understand, ‘Oh, my parents are very busy.’ They feel that their parents don’t love them. That means I am not lovable… but the concept of quality time can work with elders but it doesn’t work with small children. Now, because they just don’t understand what is important and what is not important. Children… for them, they need not quality time, they need quantity time. Now they need to see who is around me, most of the time. So, when they see that, then they feel love. So, just as…. for children it is very easy to understand that to a child if the parents don’t pay attention, don’t pay time…give time to the child, then children feel unloved, and when they feel unloved they just don’t feel unloved, they start feeling that, ‘I am unlovable, or I am unworthy of love.’ And that can be very emotionally crippling for them. So, similarly when we grow up… when we are still a child, when we are still a tender child in our heart and there is any rejection in any relationship, when there is any blow in any relationship we often define ourselves….45.24… ‘This person doesn’t care for me.’, and then maybe that means that I am not good enough, and then there is that insecurity that is there, that instability that is there, but when we are connected with Krishna, when we are sheltered in Krishna through our practice of bhakti  then that gives security, that gives us shelter. Whatever it is, Krishna always loves me. When nothing is left, Krishna is still left. Now, everybody may leave us and go away, but Krishna will always be there in our heart. He is never going to desert us. He is always there with us, and Krishna’s love for us doesn’t depend on who we are, Krishna’s love for us is based on who He is. He is the all attractive, all loving person. He loves us not because of who we are. He loves because of who He is. He always loves us, no matter how many wrong things we would have done, he still loves us. It is not that Krishna says, ‘I am present only in the heart of the pure devotee and I am not in the heart of a sinful person.’

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham

I am in the hearts of all the living beings. Krishna’s love for us is unchanging. He always loves us. So, now of course our experience of love… His love…it depends on who we are? The sun is always giving light to everyone, but if I close my eyes I can’t see the sun. So, like that Krishna always loves us, but we are too caught in the materialistic things, then we will not be able to feel Krishna’ love. We will feel Krishna’s love only when material things work out right for us, but still the point is that Krishna always loves us, and when we practice bhakti that gives us a certain level of stability, a certain level of security that actually I am… Krishna cares for me, Krishna loves me. So, even if there is some turbulence in the horizontal relationship it won’t shake us so much because we have stability through our vertical relationship. When we don’t have this stability through the vertical relationship then any turbulence in the horizontal relationship will shake us too much. Why? Why will it shake us too much? Because we have defined ourselves in terms of my horizontal relationship…. If I define myself as the husband of someone, if I define myself as the wife of someone, if I define myself as the parent of someone, if I define myself as the child of someone, then if there is a issue in that relationship then my own self-definition and my own self-worth come in question, but if I define myself as a part of Krishna, as a servant of Krishna, and as a servant of Krishna I am the wife of someone, I am the husband of someone, I am parent of someone, I am the child of someone. All these are services that we 48.22, and sometimes, some services work out, sometime some services don’t work out. Sometimes, even pure devotees like Srila Prabhupada… it’s not that every single thing that he did worked out. Prabhupada started the league of devotees, it didn’t work out. Prabhupada ran Back to Godhead in India, it didn’t work out. Sometimes some services… if we see each relationship as a service, we understand that sometimes some services work out, and sometimes some services don’t work out. So, we will have a sense of our own self-identity… of inner security and self-worth, independent of our relationships, our horizontal relationships. Not entirely independent. We are not meant to be isolated living beings, but when we are defined primarily by our own vertical relationship with Krishna, then that brings stability in our horizontal relationships. So, ultimately to give up resentment in any horizontal relationship we have to have… we have to have a much deeper vertical relationship. That vertical relationship with Krishna… When we understand that… Ok this person… I had this relationship with this person and he makes me doing this things, we are expecting these things but this person is not like this. So, if I have defined myself in terms of that relationship then any rejection, any mistake on that part, any offense by them, it will just become unbearable for us because it is not just what they have done, it is what it means for us. ‘You did this to me, that means you don’t care for me, and that means that I am not worth being cared for, I am not really worthy…’ So, that insecurity that is there, that can tremendously 50.10(inaudible)… that is what disturbs us, but when we are connected with Krishna that insecurity is substantially decreased because we know that Krishna will always help us, and that’s why when we put Krishna first, ‘this vertical relationship is my most important relationship’… and all horizontal relationships are services in that vertical relationship. So, when I said services doesn’t mean it is not important, some services can be very very important but at the same time they are services, they don’t define me, they define an aspect of me. ‘Yes, I want my services to be successful. If you do any service, if you are speaking, if you are singing, if you are managing, if you are distributing books, you want to be successful, you want to do well. So, like that whatever relationship that we have… I am mother, I am a husband, I am child, I want this services to be successful, but I am not dependent on them, I am not defined by them. Even if these don’t work out, I am not over, my relationships move on, Krishna moves on. They are all important means for me to move on with my relationship with Krishna, but when we see them as services we don’t identify with them so much, and to the extent that we don’t identify so much with them, to that extent we can actually perform them more responsibly because when we are too dependent there is attachment, there is detachment, and there is commitment. Now we often think of, ‘don’t be attached, be detached.’, but bhakti is not just our dynamics of attachment and detachment. Bhakti is about commitment. Commitment means that even if… commitment basically means no matter how I feel I will do this, that is commitment. It is like say, when a mother has a new-born child. Now the child is like an alarm clock that goes off any time… even in the middle of the night. Now, the mother is committed to taking care of the child. Normally, even if we set the alarm clock at a particular time and even if it starts ringing, we shut it off…. I don’t want to wake up. But when the child starts crying the mother would never shut off the child. Why not? Because there is commitment. The mother may not feel like waking up in the morning, she may be tired terribly, but she will wake up, why? Because there is commitment. So, there attachment, there is detachment and bhakti is neither about attachment, nor about detachment, it is about commitment. Commitment means, we are committed to our relationship with Krishna. See, commitment basically means that whether I feel like it or I don’t feel like it, I will do it. So, we are committed to our relationship with Krishna… that means I will practice bhakti, I will serve Krishna, whether I feel like it or I don’t feel like it. That commitment is what will bring stability. In any relationship it is commitment that brings stability. Today’s culture is like a commitment diverse culture. People don’t want to make any commitment in their relationships. Now, the Bhagavtam talks about how people who are attached to their families… you know Kaliyuga people are not even attached to their families. Does that mean that they are renounced? No, they are not renounced, they are irresponsible. What is the difference between irresponsibility and detachment? Irresponsibility…if a student says… the student is not studying for the exam. Mother says, ‘Study.’, he says, ‘No, I am detached.’ (laughter) That is not detachment. That is irresponsibility. So, actually the key difference between detachment and irresponsibility is, ‘Irresponsibility is before the action. Detachment is after the action.’ If I don’t study for my exam it is not detachment, it is irresponsibility, I am not doing my studies only, but after I have done my studies, after I have done my part, then I am 54.34… ‘Will I pass this exam or not? What will happen? What will happen?’ That is attachment. You have done your part, now leave it. So, detachment means, we do our part and then we leave the rest to Krishna. So, detachment is in fact not at all irresponsibility. Detachment is the opposite of responsibility. Is the opposite of irresponsibility. See, when we are detached… if I am too attached to something, you know, I am interacting with one person. After interacting with that person now I am interacting with someone else. If I too attached to someone, while interacting with B I am still thinking about A, and then I am not available for that interaction, then I don’t respond properly, I am not responsive basically. So, when we are detached actually that helps us to take ourselves from one thing and focus on the next, and in that sense detachment helps us to become more responsive. When I am detached, then I do what is my part, and after I have done my part I move on to the next thing. So, when are committed to Krishna, we can be detached. Not detached in the sense of being irresponsible, not detached in the sense of being uncaring, but detached in the sense of knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control. When I see every relationship as a service to Krishna, then when I see that, OK, in this relationship I have done this, this, this. Now how that person responds it’s up to them. I can’t control that. So, I move on. I am not defined by how this person responds. I am going to move on, I am going to do the next thing. So, surrender sometimes just means letting go off things, and sometimes surrender means holding on to things and doing things. Both can be forms of surrender. So, Draupaudi, she surrendered raising her hands up… ‘Krishna, I surrender to You.’… Arjuna… Krishna tells Arjuna in the end of Bhagavat Gita, ‘Surrender… sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja Ajuna understands…He says, ‘Yes Krishna I surrender to you.’ But how did Arjuna surrender? Not by trying to surrender by raising his hands in helplessness. Arjuna surrenders by fixing up his bow in readiness to fight. So, surrender can have many different 56.53(inaudible)… and the key thing in surrender is, We understand what is in my control, what is not in my control. So, yes, in this particular relationship this is what I could do, I did that well enough, now I move on to the next thing. So, that is detachment, and that detachment comes when we are committed to Krishna. When I am committed to Krishna, I am going to serve Krishna whether I feel like it or I don’t feel like it. Then what happens? ‘Ok, this person is not acting properly. I don’t feel like working.’ … No… I am committed to my service to Krishna, we will move onwards, and as we move onwards we find that, that particular thing that was just eating us up mentally… when we just don’t have time to think about things, when we don’t have… when we just keep ourselves ideal so that first thing eats us up. When we see ourselves as servants of Krishna, we see our relationship as a service to Krishna, then even if a particular relationship doesn’t work out we can move on, we can move on and then we will see many times that as we move on, things reveal themselves, things resolve themselves… ‘Ok, this is how it will work out, this is how this should work out.’ And we take care of things. So, when we recognize that all horizontal relationships are actually Krishna expressing His love for us through those relationships, and sometimes when those people are unloving that doesn’t mean we are unlovable. That simply means that now Krishna will express His love through someone else or Krishna may reveal His love to me directly. So, rather than just getting locked in that… ‘Why is this person not acting properly?’ We don’t let ourselves be defined by that person. We let ourselves be defined by relationships with Krishna. So, when people around us become unloving, at that time rather than just feeling, ‘Oh, why is this persons not caring for me? Why are people not caring for me?’… We can focus on connecting with Krishna, and this is the time when I take a whole hearted shelter of Krishna, and when we do that, we not only experience that Krishna is always there for us, Krishna’s shelter is real, Krishna’s shelter is transformational, Krishna’s shelter lifts us above our circumstances. So, ultimately all the relationships that we have, they are important and we need to be responsible in this relationships, but ultimately they are just one relationship among many relationships that we have had in our life, in this life… what to speak of previous lives. So, no relationship… or the frustration in that relationship needs to be given so much importance that it locks our eternal relationship with Krishna. When we focus on connecting with Krishna, all the relationships… how to deal with it, how to cope with the negativity in those relationships, we will see things in perspective and we will be guided about how to deal with them. We will ourselves get the intelligence to appropriately deal with them. So, whenever things are going wrong, rather than saying why this is going wrong, we just change the 1:00:00 (inaudible)… ‘Krishna how can I serve You in this situation?’ … ‘Why is this person acting like this, why is that person acting like that? The Why question is just perplexing. I ask… ‘How can I serve you?’ Once I focus on… How can I serve you, then by that question gradually in dawns on me, ‘I can do this, I can do that, I can take this forward, I can move this, I can do this..’ and as I keep taking a step forward, gradually a path emerges, and we move onwards in our life. So, the How question… ‘Krishna! How can I serve you?’ That is an empowering question. In every situation we are in, there is always some way I can serve Krishna, and as we start taking one step, two step forward, we will find that… ‘Ok, this door has closed, but this door is open, and this path is opening.’ , and in a matter of time we will find that actually that bad thing happened, but Krishna has brought us to something much better. Krishna knows better than us what is best for us. So, we do our part, and by doing our part if things don’t work out, we don’t let that define us, we just move on, and Krishna reveals the plan in due course. Krishna is expert at bringing good even out of the bad. For Him to bring good out of the bad, we have to be cooperative with Him. If we let ourselves get clogged, blocked by resentment, then we don’t let Krishna work through us. Krishna is working through us, Krishna is working around us, Krishna is working beyond us, but Krishna is always working for us, is working for our wellbeing. Sometimes He uses intelligence… Krishna works through us, Krishna works around us. Sometimes we get rejected and we get terribly hurt in one relationship, but then somebody else helps us at that time… This person is helping me… It is Krishna acting and helping me. Krishna works through us, Krishna works around us, Krishna works beyond us. Sometimes how He is working we don’t know. When Srila Prabupada came to America he had no idea what he is going to do in America, but Krishna arranged for so many people who would be there, who would receive Prabhupada’s message about Krishna and took up. Krishna is working through us, around us, beyond us, Krishna is always working for us. When we have the faith that Krishna is working for us, then we do our part in serving Krishna and just don’t let any relationship reduce us, don’t let any relationship restrict us in our moving on towards Krishna. So, we can be grateful. The Seminar was from grudging to gratitude. So, we can be grateful that we have the opportunity to connect with Krishna. How will people in the world have that opportunity? Now among the millions and millions of people in the world, we are among the few who have the opportunity to connect with Krishna. We focus on that opportunity and we can be grateful that we have the most precious thing in the world. At least we have… we have Krishna Himself, and that… as long as we have Krishna then we… we have the source of everything. We may not realize that right now, but we have Krishna with us. So, to the extent we are not focussing on Krishna and trying to practice bhakti… if you feel, ‘Oh, I don’t have this, I don’t have that.’, but to the extent we focus on Krishna and practice bhakti, we will realize that we have the greatest treasure. Over a period of time, even in the tough phases of our life, we will see that… in the past I would have collapsed in such a situation, but by Krishna’s shelter I have been able to endure it, I have been able to go through it, I have been able to go through it. Krishna’s shelter is real and that realization, that conviction about the reality of Krishna’s shelter, that is the greatest gain, because stability, security, happiness in relationships of life… it’s important, but ultimately those relationships are temporary. If we realize the reality, the potency of the eternal shelter of Krishna, and that is our eternal 1:04:29. So, Krishna is sometimes… breaks something small to provide something better. So, there may be something happening in a particular relationship but that breakage, that cleavage in a particular relationship may be what we need for deepening our relationship with Krishna. There are clouds in the sky, they look beautiful, but Krishna breaks the clouds so that rains can come. Now the ground, it looks nice, but in order to plough the ground has to be broken. Ploughing means breaking the ground. That’s when crops can grow. When grains are there, the grains have to be broken, so that we can make break, we can make chappatti’s and the food that we eat that has to be broken so that energy can come. So, each time something that is existing that is broken, so that something more usable, something better can be made. Sometimes there may be breakages… cleavages in certain of our horizontal relationships so that the vertical relationships can merge deeper, rather than just letting that resentment of the horizontal relationship consume us we redirect our intense emotions towards Krishna, and there we find a supreme shelter. —————————————————————————————————————————— Summary: I spoke today about how in the last session we covered a wide variety of things. First part I spoken is forgiveness, and in Forgiveness I talked about how there is internally forgiving, that means that we don’t hold on to resentment, and that letting go off of resentment is both a decision and a emotion. So, we can’t just delete away our memories, but forgiving creates a new way of remembering. When we are not emotionally locked in that, then we can see it from a distance and observe and learn from it as if it had happened to someone else… someone different from us, then it doesn’t hurt us so much. So, we have to take that conscious decision. Like a wound, if we keep scratching it, it’s going to worsen. Like if we keep remembering that hurt, it will worsen, but if we just let go, ‘Ok it is past and it is over’, We decide to let go, then gradually the healing will take place. Look, practically how to act, we can externally in terms of relationship… basically forgiving is not the same thing as trusting. Forgiving is for the past, trusting is for the future, and forgiveness can be given but trust has earned. So, we discussed, Ram punished Ravana because he was incorrigible but still He didn’t hold resentment against him, told Bibhisan, ‘You also don’t hold resentment against him.’ Now, Vasudev forgave Kamsa when he sought forgiveness, but Vasudev did not trust Kamsa, did not tell the whereabouts of Krishna, and eventually Kamshas  1.07.19 and he had to be punished by Krishna. On the other hand Dhrtarastra, he repeatedly hurt Vidura but Vidura forgave him, but Vidura eventually came back, and when he was 1:07:35 with Dhrtarastra, he enlightened him, he didn’t hold any grudge against him, but he did not…. when he was insulting him he walked away  from the scene and came back later. So, there may be different ways we can practically act in our relationships, when we have to implement forgiveness. The key thing is rather than asking the question, Why is this person doing this? We focus on the How question… How should I best serve in this situation? In that connection I mentioned that we have a vertical relationship with Krishna, and we have a horizontal relationship with others, and if we let any horizontal relationship define us, then we will be shaken too much, too emotionally consumed. But if we are defined by our vertical relationship, ‘I am a servant of Krishna and all my horizontal relationships are actually services to Krishna’, then we understand that the purpose of life is not to get back at others, it is to get back to Krishna, and whatever is required for me for my onward journey towards Krishna I will do that. So, we all have different roles. Now Forgiveness in and individual one to one relationship is a virtue, but in a social interaction a king cannot be always be forgiving, King has to have justice and that may require punishment. So, that’s why the brahmanas are enjoined to forgive, the ksatriyas are enjoined to punish. Now usually in our day to day interaction with our loved one’s, with other devotees it is best to have a brahminical mode. No need to hold on to small issues and make them big. Of course sometime some issues may be big, and at that time we may have to take a course of some ksatriya mode of acting, but that should not be the default mode of acting. Just focus primarily on skipping small things small, and just moving forward in our life, and for moving forward in our life we just see that no relationship should block my relationshiop with Krishna. We see all relationship as service. Sometimes some service will work out, and sometimes some service will not work out. Rather than just being resentful, ‘No, why is this person acting like this?’ We can understand that whatever attractiveness I felt in this person, it was actually Krishna’s attractiveness 1:09:47 (inaudible). Whatever love this person gave me, it was actually Krishna’s love. If that love is coming you can reciprocate, it’s fine. But, if that love is not coming, I don’t have to reduce my existence to this person’s behaviour towards me. Actually I am …1:10:03… Krishna loves always. Krishna’s love for us is not based on who we are, it is based on who He is. He always loves us, and to the extent we don’t let ourselves to be defined by our horizontal relationships. 1:10:15 we are not materially attached,….  we will be able to feel Krishna’s love, and detachment is not irresponsibility. Irresponsibility means that we don’t do our part, but detachment is actually… after doing our part, we let go so that we can do other things. Detachment helps us to become more responsible because we don’t get consumed by one thing or any one relationship. So, in every relationship rather than focussing on whether I am attached or detached, we can focus whether I am committed or not. Whether I am committed to serve Krishna, and as a service to Krishna I am going to serve in this relationship, and how much, how long, to what extent, that will depend on how best I can serve Krishna. So, when we focus on that committed action of serving Krishna, then that connection with Krishna brings us security, brings us stability, gives us a sense of self-worth by which we can tolerate turbulences in our relationships positively, and then we can move on. So, always we can be grateful for the opportunity to connect with Krishna, and through that connection with Krishna we will always be stable, and accordingly whichever relationship works out, either… 1:11:36 or closes, rather than obsessing why the door is closed, we move on.. how can I serve you, it will reveal, it will be the light for us to show the path… So, I will conclude with one thought that, when we are down to nothing, Krishna is up to something. So, what that something is we will learn through our service attitude… rather than saying, ‘Why am I down to nothing? Why? Why? Why?… instead of focussing on that, we focus on… Krishna! how can I serve you? When we have that service attitude, Krishna will reveal what He is upto, and we will find out that He knew all along what is best for us, better than us. Even if bad things happen, Krishna will expertly bring good out of the bad. (Transcription by Sadananda Krishnaprema Prabhu)

Prabhuji will continue with the questions.

Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna. So I am going towards the last phase of our session.

I will talk now about forgiveness and gratitude in two parts over here. So to reiterate the journey quickly, what we did was, we discussed in the first session how resentment is harmful for us. In the second session we discussed how pinning down the cause of suffering is very difficult.

We shouldn't be obsessed, we shouldn't obsess with the immediate cause. Then we discussed about how Krishna is the person, how we can go beyond, while we should not focus on the immediate cause, but at the same time we shouldn't either neglect the immediate cause. We focus on taking shelter of Krishna.

And whatever be the problem we are facing, by taking shelter of Krishna we can get rid of it. We had a lot of questions and answers. Now I will focus on the themes of how to deal with the immediate cause.

So when resentment comes, because when we are resentful, especially with respect to some person, who has done something which has hurt us. Now forgiveness is often lauded as a virtue. And the Bhagavatam talks about how to travel to a place where you can forgive.

Forgiveness is the defining quality of our Brahmin peoples. In Bhagavatam it says. At the same time we have to clearly understand what forgiveness means and what it doesn't mean.

Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean that we just press a delete button in our brain and forget all the wrongs that we have done. See forgiving and trusting are two different things. Forgiving is for the past.

Trust is for the future. Forgiveness can be given, but trust has to be earned. If somebody has hurt us, if we again start trusting them, again they may hurt us.

And if we uncritically trust people, then we can set ourselves up for a lot of unnecessary pain. So forgiveness is for the past. That means, whatever has happened, Okay, this person did this and because of this, this went wrong, this went wrong.

Okay, that chapter is over. And I want to hold that in my mind constantly. Now I'll talk a little bit more about what it means to forgive also.

But clearly differentiating, forgiving and trusting are two different things. We can't just, if somebody has hurt us, we can't just automatically trust them. We will actually observe how this person behaves.

Is this person really trustworthy? And that person will have to work to earn the trust. So I'll start with first an internal aspect of forgiveness. And the second is, we look at the external aspect of forgiveness.

And the internal aspect of forgiveness means that we let go of resentment against the person. This person did this to me. It hurt me terribly, but it's over.

So, okay, you did that. And I want to hold that against you. I won't let that come in the way of my moving forward in my life.

Not necessarily moving forward in that relationship. But we'll talk about that particular relationship a little later. But what forgiving means, we just let the past stay in the past.

Now, as our memory, the computer, if we have some files we don't want, we just delete it. There is no delete function in our memory. So, if somebody has hurt us, we can't just delete that memory.

But forgiving means, forgiving creates a new way of remembering the hurt. When in the past, if we're not forgiven, we remember the hurt, we feel angry, we feel resentful, we feel wronged, we feel violated, we feel betrayed. But when we forgive, we just let go.

That incident is still there, that memory is still there. But, once we let go, it is almost like, okay, it happened to me, but it is in the distant past. Basically, when we are not forgiven, when we are resentful, then we are still emotionally locked in that.

And when we are emotionally locked in it, then we are not emotionally available for other things. For other relationships, for our relationship with Krishna. But it's like, okay, this chapter is over in my life.

Just relieve those pent-up emotions. Now, when we do that, okay, just remember, okay, this thing happened in my life, and that time it was painful, but now it's over. So, usually, many of, when we talk about these things, just forgiveness, you know, is it an emotion or is it a decision? Is it an emotion I feel, oh, I forgive, I now feel forgiveness for that.

Or is it a decision? Actually, it is both. Krishna talks about in the Bhagavad Gita, we talk about austerity of the mind. In the 17th chapter, 16th verse, it says, So, there he says, Satisfaction.

Satisfaction, he says, is the austerity of the mind. What does it mean, satisfaction and austerity of the mind? That means that, you may say, I'm feeling satisfied. I'm not feeling satisfied.

So, we may say, satisfaction is just an emotion that I experience. Yes, it is true, satisfaction is an emotion that we experience. But satisfaction is also a decision we take.

If I look at all the things that are right in my life, I feel satisfied. If I look at all the things that are wrong in my life, I feel dissatisfied. So, depending on what I look at, I will feel satisfied or dissatisfied.

So, similarly, the satisfaction can be a decision. This is what I have got, I'm going to focus on this. In general, things like satisfaction, or for that matter, forgiveness, it is both an emotion and a decision.

It's a decision. You know, I'm not going to hold resentment against this person. That chapter in my life is over.

I'm going to move on in my life. When this happens, the emotions that are locked in it, sometimes you may have to consciously pull them out and invest them somewhere else. And if you just make that decision, sometimes as a matter of grace, whenever sometimes we remember something, we feel so much anger, so much pain.

But as we start practising bhakti, as we start connecting with Krishna, as we start getting purified, then we remember that this happened. It's like an incident from our past life, but we are not so emotionally locked in it. So, we don't get so emotionally worked up about it.

So, as I said, this is a decision which we have to take. If you don't take that decision, then what is going to happen? Then the emotion of forgiveness will never come. It's like, say, if I got a scratch on my body.

Now, the scratch is, that mood is there, that rash is there. As long as I keep scratching, it's going to worsen. After I stop scratching, there's a chance that it will recover.

So, like that, whatever has happened in the past, if I keep remembering it and if I keep resenting it, then that wound is never going to heal. The wound is there, but if we just make a decision, enough, this chapter in my life is over. Then I move on with my life.

Krishna has blessed me with a better life in my life, and I want to move on. Krishna has so much more waiting for me in my life ahead. So, let me not get locked in the past, let me be open to what He is giving me.

So, when we take that decision, we gradually facilitate the awakening of that emotion. So, forgiveness is a decision. To let go of resentment.

Gradually, that resentment will go away. Now, with respect to practicalities, the internal aspect of forgiveness is, we let go of resentment. With respect to externals, what do we do? You know, there will be, as I said, forgiving and trusting are two different things.

So, usually, there will be a phase when we forgive, but we don't trust. And then we observe. Then depending on how that person behaves, that person may earn our trust.

And then we may forgive and forget at that time. Let's just, I'll never bring it up, it's over now. Sometimes, that person may continue to behave the same way.

Or someone may aggrieve it. Then, if that happens, then we realise that it is, I need external action. And then we may have to take some external, rectificatory action.

I'll use some examples for this. This itself is, I have a three-part seminar on forgiveness. So, I won't go into that.

I'll just quickly mention the scriptural stories. And I presume that most of you know the stories. So, I won't go into the details of the stories.

You know, there is the story in the Ramayan, of how after Ravana was killed, Vibhishan, he said that, I cannot perform the last rites of Ravana. All his family was killed, Vibhishan was the only brother remaining. At that time, Ram said, The soul is pure.

Whatever sin he has done, now that's cleansed of that. Now, he should perform his last rites. Let his soul go on to the next destination.

So, now that he has, now that he has got the new punishment for what he has done, don't hold grudges against him. So, Ram, he asked Vibhishan to let go, to forgive whatever he has done. But his forgiveness does not mean that Ram just let Ravana get away with the unfortunate sin.

He actually punished. So, in this case, Ravana was incorrigible. Ravana was completely incorrigible.

So, Ram forgave in principle, though Vibhishan also gave up the negativity. But Ram sent Hanuman as a peace messenger. Angad went as a peace messenger.

Vibhishan gave good advice. So, Vibhishan gave good advice. Ravana was not interested.

Then he had to be punished for that. Another example is of Vasudeva. So, here there is a person who forgave, but there is a strong external action against that person.

On the other hand, the other example could be, forgive but do not trust and watch what happens. So, Kamsa, he killed six of the children of Devaki. And then, after the, when the eighth child was born, and it turned out to be a female, and it turned out to be the goddess, he was alarmed.

He said, what happened? What's going on? He almost had a change of heart. He said, if the goddess is born from Devaki, Goddess is a special woman. And he actually seeks forgiveness.

And he seeks forgiveness. And he tells her, actually, I did not kill them. It's ultimately my past karma, everything else.

It's my past karma only, they were killed. Don't hold me responsible. Please forgive me.

Vasudev and Devaki forgave him. That's what the Bhagavatam says. But Vasudev did not trust him.

Actually, you know Krishna is born, he is a Nirmala. He did not tell him that. Because he had to wait and watch how genuine was his forgiveness.

And eventually, it turned out, his forgiveness, his change of heart, not forgiveness, the change of heart of Kamsa was not at all genuine. Eventually, when he came to know that Krishna asked him, he sent so many demons to try to kill Krishna. Eventually, Krishna came and killed Kamsa.

So in this case, Vasudev forgave but did not trust. He did not hold that resentment. He was ready to, okay, it's over.

It's bad. Actually, the same thing was that he was ready to forgive even that. The grievous of course, he was ready to forgive.

But forgiving and trusting are two different things. Third example we have is of Vidura and Dhritarashtra. Vidura, younger brother, and Dhritarashtra time and time again tried to, Vidura tried to advise Dhritarashtra to stop antagonising the Pandavas.

Dhritarashtra never listened. At one particular point, Dhritarashtra got so angry with Vidura. He said, Vidura, you are always against my son and you are in favour of Pandu's son.

I don't want to hear what you want to say. Go wherever you want. So, and this happened just after the Pandavas had been exiled.

So at that time, Vidura left. Vidura actually went and joined the Pandavas there in the forest. And then afterwards, Dhritarashtra had a change of heart.

He said, Oh, my brother was always a well-wisher. He always gave me good advice. Why did I send him away? So he sent Sanjay.

Please, let's call Vidura back. Now, Vidura came back. Because Vidura saw that Dhritarashtra himself was not a bad person.

He was attached to a bad person. And that attachment to a bad person had made him bad. So he felt there was some hope for Vidura, that he could be removed.

You know, Vibhishan, when he renounced the king, Ravana, he went to the opposite side and fought for Ravana. Because he realised that Ravana had no hope of ever getting a reform. He fought against Ravana and he helped Rama to remove him.

Vidura, he came back at this time again and again he would give good advice. He never listened. And just before the war, Dhritarashtra grievously insulted Vidura.

He grievously insulted Samarashtra, Vidura. And now, you know, traditional cultures were very hierarchical. So, you know, generally, for a younger person, for a junior, to even speak against a senior is very bad.

Or to speak of a junior person, to speak inside a senior in public. So Dhritarashtra was one generation lower and he publicly insulted Vidura. And for Vidura, it was not just Dhritarashtra's word that hurt.

It's also actually Dhritarashtra's silence that hurt. Sometimes the harsh words of our opponents don't hurt us as much as the silence of our friends. So, he had reason to be angry with Dhritarashtra.

He just walked away at that. But then, he did not hold it against. Eventually, when Dhritarashtra was killed, all the hundreds of Dhritarashtra were killed and Dhritarashtra's attachment was gone.

Now Dhritarashtra had to lose everything before he lost his blindness. He was blinded by the attachment to his son and he had to lose all his sons. He had to lose everything before he lost his attachment.

And then, when Vidura came back, Vidura did not hold it against Dhritarashtra. He said, you insulted me like this. You remained silent and your son insulted me.

Nothing. Vidura, when he came, he just spoke directly, put out a message and helped Dhritarashtra because he needed it. So, in this case, what happened is Vidura forgave him.

He forgave Dhritarashtra although Dhritarashtra had insulted him, rejected him. He remained silent when he had been insulted. Vidura did not hold it against.

But he helped him. He was there to help him. Why? Because he felt that Dhritarashtra could change.

And Dhritarashtra did change. And eventually, both of them attained liberation. So here, the main point I would like to make in this discussion is that how we deal with a person.

See, forgiving can be done by one person. But reconciling has to be done by two people. To reconcile with someone, that person has to have a willingness to change, to improve, to rectify.

Now, all this, of course, is assuming that the other person has done something wrong and they deserve to be forgiven or we are considering their forgiveness. Sometimes, we ourselves may have done something wrong and we may not downplay it. So, that's a whole complex subject of conflict resolution.

We are simply focussing right now on the simple situation where the other person has done something wrong and whether to forgive them and whether to move on in our life. Now, as I said, first, the internal forgiveness helps us to move on with our own life irrespective of that particular relationship. And without that internal forgiveness, we can't move on in that relationship and we can't move on in our life also.

We just stay stuck mentally over it. So just let go. And with that forgiveness, we can move on in that particular relationship.

Now, we can move on in our life and how to move on in that particular relationship, that will vary. So, usually, we have to assess what that person's nature is, what that person's consciousness is, what that person's level of remorse is. These are not something which are easy to assess and that's why major relationship decisions shouldn't be taken too emotionally.

Emotions are important, very important in our life. But emotions should never be made the sole arbiters of our decision making. We have to have our emotions and we have to evaluate those emotions in the light of time.

So in the light of what is going to elevate us and what is going to degrade us. So, if somebody has sometimes there is a mistake that is made but there is a one-off mistake. A person has a normally a good character, they're nice people but suddenly one-off mistake.

It may be a big mistake and it has hurt us. But if it's just a one-off thing, then there is no need to hold that up against that person and hate that person throughout life with that. We all commit mistakes.

Sometimes some of us commit bigger mistakes than others. So we need to be understanding. What is understanding? That just as past karma comes upon us as suffering.

Sometimes the past karma comes upon us as suddenly this thing goes wrong, our health goes down, we meet with an accident, or whatever. Past karma can come as external problems. Similarly, past karma can also come sometimes as internal passions.

Suddenly a person may become lusty, suddenly a person may become greedy, suddenly a person may become angry. And that is just sometimes for no reason from this life's perspective, a person just appears completely out of character. And if that is just a one-time thing, there will be always little residual doubt in our heart.

But you don't have to hold that. But like one time, a person does wrong, and we forgive. So that is good.

If the person is doing the same mistake again and again, each time they are hurting us, then it is that we may well be just we may just be in the name of forgiveness, we may be empowering their wrongdoing. That means somebody is doing something wrong again and again, and they know, oh, we are just going to forgive them. What happens? We are just making them do that wrong again and again.

So then sometimes we just have to take a strong decision. You know, I love you too much, so let this go. You say, no, you don't love me enough, that's why you are not forgiving me.

No, I love you so much that I cannot let this go. Because this is the part which is dangerous. So sometimes we may have to take a strong stand, and that strong stand is not exactly unforgiving.

In forgiveness, as I said, the internal feeling of not liking a present moment is good. But the external, how we act, we have to understand that actually we are in a relationship with others, and we have duties in the relationship. But other people also have duties in their relationship.

And if the other person is repeatedly hurting us again and again, then we have to focus on our relationship with Krishna. And we have to make sure that we keep moving towards Krishna. This doesn't mean that we trivialise other relationships.

But we shouldn't let any relationship dominate our consciousness so much that we are just not able to function in our life. We are not able to function in our journey towards Krishna, or function in our routine life also. So at that time, when, if you look at the way the scriptures talk about this, there are Kshatriyas and there are Brahmanas.

Brahmanas are not law makers. Brahmanas are not are not managers. So Brahmanas are encouraged to forgive.

Whatever happens, just forgive. But Kshatriyas are not encouraged to forgive. Kshatriya's duty is to punish.

If a thief has robbed a person, the Kshatriya starts, the thief starts forgiving. If the police start forgiving criminals, it's going to be terrible. All this system of justice is required.

So now, now when we come to, there has to be forgiveness can and should be an individual virtue. But forgiveness is never a social virtue. In terms of social administration, it has to be justice.

Justice means wrongdoings have to be punished. So generally what is the purpose of punishment? When somebody is being punished, what is the purpose? Actually, broadly speaking, there are three purposes. One is, through the punishment, it is demonstrated to people in general.

This action has this consequence. Justice is not to be done. Justice is not just to be done.

Justice should also be seen to be done. That people realise. If I do this wrong, this consequence will come.

So it is for the edification of people in general, that wrongdoing will be punished. Secondly, it is for the individual to also bear the consequences of what wrong they have done. And it is for the hurt person to recognise that their hurt is also taken seriously.

So now when, this is at a social level, when we are acting on our individual relationships, generally we act at the Brahmin thing. We don't go into the Kshatriya war usually. When there are family conflicts, when they become very, very unbearable, people may go to courts and try to resolve them through courts.

It just simply makes things worse. When we are talking about interpersonal dealings, at that time, these small infractions, we don't have to hold them against people. Just move on in our life.

Everybody is imperfect and everybody will commit some mistakes or the other. And now whether if somebody is repeatedly doing something, what am I to do in that situation? Am I just to walk away from that relationship and move on or am I going to take some action against that person? All this depends on the situation. All this depends on the individual.

What kind of wrong doing has been done. And then the important principle in our spiritual life is that we want to focus on our relationship with Krishna. And sometimes as a service to Krishna, we may want to do a particular thing.

Sometimes I feel I'm not interested in this. This chapter happened in my life. I have better things to do in my life.

So again, I go back to the earlier things. Tolerating, changing or walking away. All these three can be modes of forgiveness.

Okay, this is a small mistake. Let's just tolerate it and move on. Sometimes, this can't be tolerated.

That is, it's not that we don't forgive the person. We forgive the person but we understand that if this behaviour is tolerated, it will be repeated. And when it is repeated, this person may hurt again not just the other people also.

Then some action has to be taken. Sometimes some discipline action may be pursued. But that can also be done in a non-resentful, non-revengeful way.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna talks about how in the eleventh chapter, he reveals the Vishwaroopa in which all the Kauravas are entering into the mouth of the Vishwaroopa. They have been destroyed. Basically, what he is showing is that actually Krishna is showing that Arjuna, you are going to be victorious in the war.

Your enemies are going to be killed. And Krishna gives a clarion call to Arjuna. By my arrangement, they are all killed.

Just become an instrument in the fight. Attain victory. Enjoy a prosperous life.

So Krishna is telling Arjuna, fight over there. This is 11.33. 22 verses later, in 11.55, the same Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that Arjuna, Work for me without animosity towards any living being. If you work like this, this way you will come to me.

So, yesterday, that means Krishna is saying fight Arjuna, but don't fight animosity. Yesterday I mentioned about how when somebody has hurt us, a snake has bitten us, the priority is not to get back at the snake. Our priority is to get safe.

Don't get back, get safe. I'll extend that further. I don't want to hurt myself, but here, we have to move forward.

Our life is not meant to get back at others. Our life is meant to get back to Krishna. We want to get back to Krishna.

And in order to get back to Krishna, we have to deal appropriately. If we keep this long term purpose of attaining Krishna in our mind, in the forefront, then how to deal with the particular situation, we will learn it appropriately. Because Prabhupada writes in the 10th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, one of the purports, he says intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective.

Intelligence means to see things in their proper perspective. This is so important, this is less important, this is not so important. So we see things in proper perspective and then we decide how much time, how much energy to invest in what.

As devotees, it is especially in devotional relationships, it is good to be forgiving. As I said, grudging hurts. And forgiving as an interactivity gives us forgiving as an interactivity gives us a sense of release by which we can move onwards.

By which we can move closer to Krishna. And as far as externals are concerned, most of us, we want to live a Brahminical life. Some of us as managers in our movement, we are doing a Kshatriya role at least.

So we may have to take appropriate disciplinary action. And outside world, we may have to play particular roles and we have to act accordingly according to those roles. The unifying principle is the attitude of service.

Krishna, I am your servant. How best can I serve you in this situation? So, the whole principle of bhakti is, or advancement in bhakti, it all is based on asking the right questions. When Sri Prabhupada was asked what is the best prayer that you can offer to Krishna? Prabhupada said, Pray to Krishna, please give me the strength to serve you.

Please give me the strength to serve you. So Krishna, how can I serve you? This how question is an extremely empowering question. In contrast, the why question is an extremely disempowering question.

Why questions? Why did this happen? Why? Why? Why? Why did this go wrong? Why did he do that? Why did that happen? It was something like that. The why question will cause us to get mentally paralysed. Many times in life, the why question just has no answer.

So, just as long as you keep stuck with the why question, why? Why? Why? Why? Why did this person do this? Why did this person do that? The why question, sometimes you just get no answers. It is said that we should all learn from the past. We should learn from our mistakes.

Yes, it is true, we should learn from our mistakes. But sometimes, sometimes some situations happen in such a way in our life, that the best thing that we can learn is to stop trying to learn. What I mean by that is, not that we shouldn't try to learn, but that, if we are too emotionally close to a situation, we can't learn from it.

The wound is too raw. And, the more we think of it, the more it hurts. To learn from a situation, there has to be a certain amount of distance, a certain amount of detachment.

There is a difference between learning from the past and lamenting about the past. Lamenting about the past, resenting the past, holding grudges. So, you may say, I want to learn from the past.

The key difference between learning from the past and lamenting about the past or judging the past, the key difference is who is in control. When I am learning from the past, I am in control and I take my mind, I take my consciousness to the past. This event happened.

I spoke like this, that person spoke like that. And then I did this. That person should have done like this.

We calmly analyse. We calmly analyse. And then we calmly analyse.

When we are in control, we take our thoughts to this event. We take our thoughts to that event. And then we draw our thoughts out and we learn some lessons.

When we are in control, then we can learn. But when we are lamenting, when we are resenting, we are not in control. Our mind is in control.

The mind just takes us on a ride. And this is not a joyful ride. It's a painful ride.

Now we are at one place, the mind is, why did they do that? It's a horrible thing. Just one second, one, two, three, four, five, we remember the incidents and it's all just identical. So sometimes when the wound is too raw, we just can't, we have the distance to, we just don't have the distance to go back and learn.

So at that time, it's just best to take shelter of Krishna. Stop thinking about the situation. Just focus on connecting with Krishna, absorbing oneself in Krishna.

Gradually, our emotional temperature will go down. When the emotional temperature is too high, we just can't think clearly. So get the emotional temperature down.

Once you get the emotional temperature down, once the emotional temperature is down, then there's capacity for rational analysis and learning. What to do in this situation. So, now, when we are trying to decide, okay, this particular situation, this person did like this, what should I do? So, generally speaking, we, it is best that we talk with each other instead of talk about each other.

What happens when we, if A has done something to B, and we do like this, what happens if B goes and tells C? You know what A did? C goes and tells D. And then D goes and tells A. And A goes, oh B is backbiting this. And what happens? A goes and tells B. E goes and tells F. And F goes and tells B. And then just things become a big mess. So if we have some issues with some people, it's best to talk with them.

We may need to talk with someone else to get a better perspective. But then that person should be trustworthy. Just keep talking about others instead of talking with others.

And then that makes a big mess of things. So, just talking with others directly, it helps in resolving issues. Resolving doesn't necessarily mean the conflict will be resolved.

Resolving doesn't necessarily mean the issue will be solved. But at least we understand who stands where. Otherwise we are all getting second-hand perspectives.

And we don't know who or what really said. So much time goes in clarifications or in misconceptions that are created because of inappropriate communication. So if we understand this person, if we just talk with people directly, then we understand this person like this and this person like this.

This is needed. You see, this is with respect. I'll talk two more points and then we'll have some question and answers.

So, one point is with respect to the forgiveness itself, that when we are dealing with others, the important thing is we don't just deal with them. We are dealing with Krishna also. With every relationship, every interaction that we have with anyone, that is also an expression of our relationship with Krishna.

Sometimes we relate with Krishna through people who are very kind and loving. Sometimes we relate with Krishna through people who are very unloving and unkind. So both kinds of people, we are ultimately related with Krishna.

And Krishna's love for us can come through different people at different times. So somebody may have been very kind to us at a particular time and when that person does something which hurts us, it's even more painful. Because if we know somebody is enemy and we go close to them, we know they are going to hit us.

So we are ready. We have girded ourselves up to be hit. But if we go to someone who loves us and we expect a pat and that time we get a punch, that hurts all the more.

So like that, sometimes some people may hurt us terribly. So we need to see the Krishna connection. Krishna connection means that actually it is Krishna who is offering his love to me through this person.

That person is not an independent agent of me. We are not denying the agency of that person. We are not minimising or rejecting the fact that this person offers some love to me.

But it is ultimately Krishna who loves me. And Krishna expressed his love to this person and that same Krishna can express his love to some other person. You see, that one of the most intimate acts of love is say when a baby is newborn, mother offers her own breast to Krishna.

That is an expression of mother's love. At the same time, is it only the mother's love? No. Actually, when the child is born, the mother does not do anything special to produce milk in her breast.

The same God who sent a child in the mother's womb also sends milk in her breast. So it is Krishna who is expressing the love to the mother. That does not mean the mother is unimportant.

But it is not that the priest stays stuck in beauty. When Dhruva Maharaj when Dhruva is a small boy, at that time, his mother offers him so much love and care. In fact, his mother offers both a mother and a father.

Because his father is simply attached to his other wife and because of that, he pays all his attention to her and her child. So his mother does all that she can for him. But then when Dhruva is terribly insulted, because his father neglects him.

And what does his mother tell him? It is Lord Vishnu who can help him. And she says, Lord Vishnu can offer you more love than what millions of mothers like me can offer you. So she is not denying the reality of her love for him.

But she is recognising his limitation. Now my child, I cannot offer him anything. I cannot teach him to love Krishna.

For a mother of a five year old child, to tell him to go to the forest, it is incredible. But she realises she can't help him. So Dhruva actually goes to the forest, Krishna arranges for him in Naradu.

He has darshan of Krishna. So when anyone offers his love, it is Krishna who is offering that love to them. So you know all good things come from Krishna.

But all good things don't always take us to Krishna. All good things come from Krishna. So somebody is very loving, somebody is very kind, it is Krishna's love who is coming to that person.

But sometimes that person may start behaving unreasonably. Maybe start behaving in an abusive way, violently, harmfully. So now what do you understand? Krishna is offering me love.

Now Krishna may not offer love to this person. Krishna may offer love to someone else. So we have a need for love.

And that need for love needs to be fulfilled. But if we let that get restricted only to one person, then we become emotionally dependent on that person. When you become emotionally dependent on that person, that chokes our growth.

So we have to recognise that that same Krishna can offer me love from different people at different times. And ultimately it is Krishna who is the source of that love. Madhrapati had five husbands.

But at the time came her life, nobody could help her. Nobody could help her at that time. What did she do? She did not keep blaming her husband.

Why are you not helping? They are not able to do. So now husbands were devotees of Krishna. And they were doing their duty of protecting her.

But at that particular point they couldn't do anything. So sometimes in our life, when we see that a particular door is closed, yes, there is a particular person involved and there is a particular dynamics with that person involved. But more important way to see this, whatever I was getting, like this person was attractive to me in some way.

Everything attractive in this world reflects the spark of Krishna. That whatever is attractive in this world, it reflects the spark of Krishna's light. That means, whatever we are attracted to, it is the spark of Krishna's light.

So yes, Krishna's attractiveness was manifesting in the form of a spark in this world. But now it is no longer manifesting. Something is gone.

So now let me focus on Krishna. So we, we acknowledge the medium, we acknowledge the instrument, but we also acknowledge the source. And our primary relationship has to be with the source.

We have horizontal relationships in this world and we have a vertical relationship with Krishna. Now, the ideal situation is when the horizontal relationship and the vertical relationship are symbiotic. That means that we have our loved ones, they are also interested in practising bhakti and sometimes we feel lax, we feel disheartened and they encourage us.

Sometimes they feel lax and we encourage them. So the horizontal relationship strengthens the vertical relationship. And similarly, the vertical relationship strengthens the horizontal relationship.

Now when we are connected with Krishna, when we are practising bhakti, then by the practise of bhakti, we, by the connection with Krishna through that practise, we get a certain level of inner stability, inner maturity. Then we are not so dependent on others. In every relationship, whatever a person does, that we often, you know, we are relational creatures.

So we often define ourselves through our relationships. You know, if when children see that their parents are not around them, most of the time, then children don't just understand that my parents are very busy. They just feel that my parents are not around.

And that means I am not lovable. The concept of quality time can work with elders, but it doesn't work with small children. Because they just don't understand what is important, what is not important.

Children, for them, they need not quality time, they need quantity time. They need to see who is around me most of the time. So when they see that, then they feel So just as in child children, it is very easy to understand that that, you know, a child if the parents don't pay time, give time to the child, child children feel unloved.

And when they feel unloved, they just don't feel unloved. They start feeling that I am unloveable. I am unworthy of love.

And that can be very emotionally crippling. So similarly, even when we grow up, there is still a tender child in our heart. And when there is any rejection in any relationship, when there is any blow in any relationship, we often define ourselves that if this person doesn't care for me, then maybe that means I am not good enough.

And there is that insecurity that is there, that instability that is there. But when we are connected with Krishna, when we are sheltered in Krishna through our practise of bhakti, then that gives us security. That gives us shelter.

Whatever it is, Krishna always loves us. When when nothing is left, Krishna is still left. Everybody may leave us and go away, but Krishna will always be there in our heart.

He is never going to desert us. He is always there with us. And Krishna's love for us doesn't depend on who we are.

Krishna's love for us is based on who He is. He is the one attractive, all-loving person. He loves us not because of who we are.

He loves us because of who He is. He always loves us. No matter how many wrong things we have done, He still loves us.

It is not that Krishna says, I am present only in the heart of a pure devotee. And a sinful person, I am not in their heart. No.

Sarva-vartha-jam I am in the heart of all living beings. Krishna's love for us is unchanging. He always loves us.

So now, of course, our experience of His love, it depends on who we are. The sun is always giving light to everyone. But if I close my eyes, I can't see the sun.

So like that, Krishna always loves us. But if we are too caught in materialistic things, then we will not be able to feel Krishna's love. We will feel Krishna's love only when the material things work out right for us.

But still, the point is, Krishna always loves us. And when we practise bhakti, that gives us a certain level of stability. A certain level of security.

That actually, I am what Krishna cares for me. Krishna loves me. So even if there is some turbulence in the horizontal relationship, it won't shake us so much because we have stability through our vertical relationship.

When we don't have the stability through the vertical relationship, then any turbulence in the horizontal relationship will shake us too much. Why? Why will it shake us too much? Because we have defined ourselves in terms of the horizontal relationship. If I define myself as the husband of someone, if I define myself as the wife of someone, if I define myself as the parent of someone, if I define myself as the child of someone, then if there is an issue in that relationship, my own self-definition and my own self-worth comes in question.

But, if I define myself as a part of Krishna, as a servant of Krishna, and as a servant of Krishna, I am the wife of someone, I am the husband of someone, I am the parent of someone, I am the child of someone. All these are services that I am doing. And sometimes some services work out.

Sometimes some services don't work out. Sometimes, even Prabhupada, not every single thing that he did work out. Prabhupada suddenly got demoted and it didn't work out.

Prabhupada ran back to war in India, it didn't work out. Sometimes some services, if we see each relationship as a service, we understand that sometimes some services work out, sometimes some services don't work out. So we will have a sense of our own self-eye, of inner security and self-worth independent of our relationships our horizontal relationships.

Not entirely independent, we are not meant to be isolated like this, but when we are defined primarily by our vertical relationship with Krishna, then that brings stability in our horizontal relationships. So ultimately, to give up resentment in any horizontal relationship, we have to have, we have to have a much deeper, a vertical relationship. That vertical relationship with Krishna, when we understand that, okay, this person, I was, I had this relationship with this person, we are doing these things, we are expecting these things, but this person has done like this.

So if I have defined myself in terms of that relationship, then any rejection, any mistake on that part, any offence by them, it will just become unbearable for us. Because it is not just what they have done, it is what it means for us. You did this to me, that means you don't care for me.

And that means, I am not worthy yet. I am not, I am not being, I am not really worthy. So that insecurity that is there, that can tremendously heal.

That is what this tells us. But when we are connected with Krishna, that insecurity is substantially decreased. Because we know Krishna will always be there with us.

And then, that's why when you put Krishna first, this vertical relationship is my most important relationship. And all horizontal relationships are services in that vertical relationship. So, when I say services, it doesn't mean it's not important.

Some services can be very well important. But at the same time, they are services. They don't define me.

They define an aspect of me. Yes, I want my services to be successful. If we do any service, if you are singing, if you are speaking, if you are managing, if you are distributing books, we want it to be successful.

We want to do it well. So like that, whatever relationship we have, I am a mother, I am a husband, I am a child, I am a parent, I want these services to be successful. But, I am not dependent on them.

I am not defined by them. Even if these don't work out, I move on. My life moves on, my relationship with Krishna moves on.

They are all important means for me to move on my relationship with Krishna. But when we see them as services, we don't identify so much with them. And to the extent we don't identify so much with them, to that extent, we can actually perform them more responsibly.

Because, when we are too dependent, this is the last one which I will conclude, that there is attachment, there is detachment and there is commitment. We often think of don't be attached, be detached. Bhakti is not just about the dynamic of attachment and detachment.

Bhakti is about commitment. Commitment means that even if commitment basically means no matter how I feel, I will do this. That's commitment.

It's like say, when a mother has a newborn child. The child is like an alarm clock who goes off at any time, in the middle of the night. Now, the mother is committed to take care of the child.

Normally, even if we set the alarm clock at a particular time, and even when it starts ringing, we shut it off. Shut it off. I don't want to wake up.

And when the child starts crying, we tell the mother, shut up. Never do that. Why not? Because there is commitment.

You know, the mother may not feel like waking up in the morning. She may be tired, but she wakes up because there is commitment. So, there is attachment, there is detachment, and Bhakti is neither about attachment nor about detachment.

It is about commitment. Commitment means we are committed to our relationship with Krishna. See, commitment basically means that whether I feel like it or I don't feel like it, I will do it.

So, when we are committed to our relationship with Krishna, then, that means, I'll practise Bhakti, I'll serve Krishna, whether I feel like it or I don't feel like it. That commitment is what will bring stability. In any relationship, it is commitment that brings stability.

Our today's culture is like a very commitment-diverse culture. People don't want to make any commitment in relationships. Now, the Bhagavatam talks about how people who are attached to their families, you know, Kali Yuga people are not even attached to their families.

Does that mean they are renounced? No, they are not renounced, they are irresponsible. See, what is the difference between irresponsibility and detachment? Irresponsibility, if a student is not studying for the exam, mother says, study. No, I'm detached.

That is not detachment, that is irresponsibility. So, actually, the key difference between detachment and irresponsibility is irresponsibility is before the action. Detachment is after the action.

If I don't study for my exam, that is not detachment, that is irresponsibility. I'm not doing my studies only. But after I have done my studies, after I have done my part, then I'm constantly worrying, oh, will I pass this exam or not? What will happen? That is detachment as well.

You have done your part, now leave it. So, detachment means we do our part and then we leave the rest to Krishna. So, detachment is not at all irresponsible.

Detachment is the opposite of responsibility. It's the opposite of irresponsibility. See, when we are detached, then what happens? If I'm too attached to something, I'm interacting with one person.

After interacting with that person, now I'm interacting with someone else. If I'm too attached to someone, while interacting with B, I'm still thinking about A. And then I'm not available for that interaction. Then I don't respond properly.

I'm not responsible, basically. So, when we are detached, actually, that helps us to take ourselves out of one thing and focus on the next. And in that sense, detachment helps us to become more responsible.

When I'm detached, then I do what is my part and after I've done my part, I move on to the next step. So, when we are committed to Krishna, we can be detached. Not detached in the sense of being irresponsible.

Not detached in the sense of being uncaring. But detached in the sense of knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control. When I see every relationship as a service to Krishna, then, when I see, okay, in this relationship, I have done this, this, this.

Now, how that person responds, it's up to them. I can't control it. So, I move on.

I'm not defined by how this person responds. I'm going to move on. I'm going to move on, I'm going to do the next thing.

So, surrender sometimes means just letting go of things. And sometimes surrender means holding on to things and doing things. Both can be forms of surrender.

So, Draupadi, she surrendered by just raising her hands up. Krishna, I surrender to you. Arjuna, he's saying, Krishna tells Arjuna at the end of the bhagavad-gita, surrender.

Or Dharmanpada says, I'm not concerned. Krishna says, yes, Krishna, I surrender to you. But how did Krishna, Arjuna surrender? Arjuna raised his hands in helplessness.

Arjuna surrenders and picks up his bow in readiness to fight. So, surrender can have many different forms. And the key thing in surrender is we understand what is in my control, what is not in my control.

So, yes, in this particular relationship, this is what I could do. I did that well enough. Now, I move on to the next thing.

I move on to the next thing. So, that is detachment. And that detachment comes when we are committed to Krishna.

When I'm committed to Krishna, whether I feel like it or I don't feel like it. Then what happens? Okay, this person is not acting properly. I don't feel like me.

No. I'm committed to my service to Krishna. We'll move on.

And as we move onwards, we find that that particular thing which is eating us up mentally. Then we just don't have time to think about things. When we don't have, we just keep ourselves idle so that that person eats us up.

When we see ourselves as servants of Krishna, we see our relationship as services to Krishna, then even if a particular relationship doesn't work out, we can move on. We can move on and then we'll see many times that as we move on, things reveal themselves, things resolve themselves. Okay, this is how this should work out.

This is how it should work out. And we take care of things. then we recognise that all horizontal relationships are actually Krishna expressing his love for us through the love of Krishna.

And sometimes when those people are unloving, that doesn't mean we are unloveable. It simply means that now Krishna may express his love to someone or Krishna may reveal his love to me directly. So rather than just getting locked in that, why is this person not acting properly? Why is this person not acting properly? We don't let ourselves be defined by that person.

We let ourselves be defined by our relationship with Krishna. So when people around us become unloving, at that time, rather than just feeling, oh, why is this person not caring for me? Why are people not caring for me? We can focus on connecting with Krishna. And this is the time when I can take whole-heartedly Krishna.

And when we do that, we'll experience that Krishna is always there for us. Krishna's shelter is real. Krishna's shelter is transformational.

Krishna's shelter lifts us above our circumstances. So ultimately, all the relationships that we have, they're important and we need to be responsible in those relationships. But ultimately, they're just one relationship among many relationships we have had in our lives.

In this life or to speak of previous lives. So no relationship or the frustration in that relationship needs to be given so much importance that it blocks our eternal relationship with Krishna. To focus on connecting with Krishna, all the relationships, how to deal with it, how to cope with the negativity in those relationships, we'll see things in perspective and we'll be guided about how to deal with them.

We ourselves get the intelligence to appropriately deal with them. So, now whenever things are going wrong, rather than saying, why is this going wrong? We just change the question. Krishna, how can I solve this situation? Why is this person acting like this? Why is that person acting like this? My question is just one question.

How can I solve it? Once I focus on how can I solve it, then by that question, gradually, laws of the mind can do this, can do that. I can take this step forward. I can move this, can do this.

As you keep taking step forward, step forward, step forward, gradually a path emerges and we move on with our life. So, the how question, Krishna, how can I solve it? That is an empowering question. In any situation that we are in, there is always some way we can solve Krishna.

And as we start taking one step, two step forward, we find that okay, this door is closed but this door is open. And then this path is opened up. And as we work for a period of time, we find that actually, that bad thing happened but Krishna has brought us to something much better.

Krishna knows better than us what is best for us. Krishna knows better than us what is best for us. So, we do our part and if things don't work out, we don't let that define us.

We just move on. And Krishna will reveal his plan in a new course. Krishna is an expert at bringing good even out of the bad.

But for him to bring good out of the bad, we have to be cooperating with him. If we let ourselves get clogged, blocked by resentment, then we don't let Krishna work through us. Krishna is working through us.

Krishna is working around us. Krishna is working beyond us. But Krishna is always working for us.

He is working for us and sometimes he uses intelligence to do like this. Krishna works through us. Krishna works around us.

We get rejected and we get terribly hurt in one relationship, but then somebody else helps us. Krishna is acting and helping us. Krishna works through us.

Krishna works around us. Krishna works beyond us. Sometimes how he is working, we don't know.

Krishna Prabhupada came to America. He had no idea what he was going to do in America. But Krishna had his plan.

Krishna arranged for so many people to be there who received Prabhupada's message about Krishna and took up. Krishna is working through us, around us, beyond us. Krishna is always working for us.

When we have that way, Krishna is working for us, then we do our part in serving Krishna and just don't let any relationship reduce us. Don't any relationship restrict us in our moving onwards towards Krishna. So we can be grateful from grudging to gratitude.

We can be grateful that we have the opportunity to connect with Krishna. How many people in the world have that opportunity? Among the millions of people, we have millions and millions of people in the world, we are among the few who have the opportunity to connect with Krishna. We focus on that opportunity and then we can be grateful we have the most precious thing in the world.

That is we have we have Krishna and that as long as we have Krishna, then we have the source of everything. We do not realise that right now, but we have Krishna with us. So to the extent we are not focussing on Krishna and trying to practise Bhakti, to the extent we feel, oh I don't have this, I don't have that, I don't have that, but to the extent we focus on Krishna and practise Bhakti, we realise we have the greatest treasure.

Now over a period of time, even the tough phases of our life, you see that in the past, I would have collapsed under the situation, but by Krishna's shelter I have been able to endure it, I have been able to go through it, I have been able to grow through it. Krishna's shelter is real and that realisation, that conviction about the reality of Krishna's shelter, that is the greatest aim because stability and security happen as in relationships in life, that's important. Ultimately those relations are important.

If we realise the reality, the potency of the eternal shelter of Krishna and that is our eternal peace. So Krishna sometimes breaks something small to provide something better. So there may be something happening in a particular relationship but that breakage, that cleavage in a particular relationship may be what Krishna what we need for deepening our relationship with Krishna.

There are clouds in the sky, they look beautiful but Krishna breaks the clouds so that rains can come. Now the ground, it looks nice but it has to be ploughed, the ground has to be broken, then only it can be, if it's ploughing, it's breaking the ground. That's when crops can grow and then grains are there, the grains have to be broken so that we can make bread, we can make chapatis and the food that we eat, that has to be broken so that energy can come.

So each time something that is existing is broken so that something more usable something better can be made. Sometimes there may be breakages, cleavages in certain of our horizontal relationships so that the vertical relationship can emerge deeper. Rather than just letting that resentment of the horizontal relationship consume us we redirect our intense emotions towards Krishna and there we will find a supreme shelter.

To summarise I spoke today about how this last session I covered a wide variety of themes. First part of the programme is forgiveness and forgiveness I talked about how there is internally forgiving, that means that we don't hold on to resentment and that letting go of resentment is both a decision and an emotion so we can't just delete away our memories but forgiving creates a new way of remembering when we are not emotionally locked in that then we can see it from distance and observe and learn from it as if it had happened to someone else, someone different from us it doesn't hurt us so much so we have to take that conscious decision like a wound if you keep scratching it, it's going to worsen if you keep remembering that hurt it will worsen but if you just let go, it's in the past, it's over we decide to let go gradually that we need to take this so practically how to act we can externally in terms of relationship basically forgiving is not the same as trusting forgiving is for the past trusting is for the future and forgiveness can be given but trust has to be earned so we discussed Ram Ram punished Ravana because he was in a correction but still he did not hold resentment against him, told Vibhishan now Vasudev forgave Kamsa when he sought forgiveness but Vasudev did not trust Kamsa, he did not tell him the whereabouts of Krishna and eventually Vasudev's Kamsa's two colours came out and he had to be punished by Krishna the other hand Dhritarashtra, he repeatedly hurt Vidura Vidura forgave him but Vidura eventually he came back and when he was ready Dhritarashtra did not hold the grudge against him but he did not, when he was insulting him, he walked away came back later so there can be different ways in which we practically act in our relationships when we are when we have to implement forgiveness the key thing is, rather than asking the question why is this person doing this, we focus on the how question how should I best serve in this situation in that connection I mentioned that we have a vertical relationship with Krishna we have a horizontal relationship with others and if you let any horizontal relationship define us then we will be shaken too much we will be too emotionally consumed but if we are defined by our vertical relationship I am a servant of Krishna and all my horizontal relationships are actually services to Krishna then we understand the purpose of life is not to get back at others it is to get back to Krishna and whatever is required for my onwards journey towards Krishna, I lead with that so we all have different roles forgiveness in an individual one to one relationship is a virtue but in a social interaction a king cannot always be forgiven king has to have justice and that may require punishment so that's why brahmanas are enjoying to forgive kshatriyas are enjoying to punish now usually in our day to day interactions with our lavas with other devotees it is best to have a brahminical mode no need to hold on to small issues and make them big of course sometimes some issues may be big and at that time we may have to take recourse of some kshatriya mode of acting but that should not be the default mode of acting just focus primarily on keeping small things small and just moving forward in our life and for moving forward in our life if you just see that no relationship should block my relationship with Krishna see all religion has service sometimes some service will work out, sometimes some service will not work out so rather than just being resentful, why is this person acting like this if you understand that whatever attractiveness I felt in this person is actually Krishna's attractiveness whatever love this person gave me is actually Krishna's love so if that love was coming it can reciprocate, it's fine but if that love is not coming I don't have to reduce my existence to this person's behaviour towards me actually I am a being Krishna loves all beings Krishna's love for us is not based on who we are, it is based on who he is he always loves us and to the extent we don't let ourselves be defined by our horizontal relationship to the extent we are not materially attached to the extent we would be able to feel Krishna's love and detachment is not irresponsibility irresponsibility means we don't do our part but detachment is actually after doing our part we let go so that we can do other things detachment helps us become more responsible because we don't get consumed by any one thing or any one relationship so in every relationship rather than focussing on whether I am attached or detached we focus on whether I am committed I am committed to serve Krishna and as a service to Krishna I am going to serve in this relationship and how much how long, to what extent that will depend on how best I can serve Krishna so when we focus on that committed committed action of serving Krishna then that connection with Krishna brings us security, brings us stability gives us a sense of self-worth by which we can tolerate differences in our relationships positively and then we can move on so always you can be grateful for the opportunity to connect with Krishna and through that connection with Krishna we will always be stable and accordingly whichever relationship works out, even if one door closes, rather than obsessing why the door closes, we move on how can I serve him it will reveal, it will be the light for us to show, the path will show so I conclude with one thought that when we are down to nothing Krishna is up to something so now what that something is we will learn through our son's attitude rather than why am I down to nothing why, why, why, instead of focussing on that we focus on Krishna, how can I serve him when we have that service attitude Krishna will reveal what is up to and we will find out that he knew all along what is best for us better than this, even if bad things happen Krishna will expertly bring good out of the bad thank you very much so we have a few minutes, are there any questions yes thank you I'm just thinking that if we're seeing the love and friendship that's coming from devotees, that is coming from Krishna is there not also a little risk philosophically or somehow that you don't have that then that, you're not seeing that this is like another jiva who's also got a personal relationship with and sort of some type of not mayavad but it could get mixed up like so when we have a relationship with devotees, we see this is Krishna loving me through them then is it not we become sort of depersonalised we don't see that person as a individual conscious being who is offering love to us I'm not talking about about reducing our relationships I'm talking about not reducing ourselves based on our relationship they're two different things I'm not talking about reducing our relationship but reducing the other person I'm talking about not reducing ourselves based on a relationship that means that when if a person is loving yes, if that person feels there's a senior devotee, there's a friend who goes out of the way to help us we don't neglect that when Prabhupada came on Jaladuta so Sumati was the person who sponsored that travel for him Prabhupada writes in his diary I thank lord Krishna for enlightening Sumati from within her heart to provide all these facilities for us it's amazing Prabhupada is aware that Sumati is giving Prabhupada is also aware that it's Krishna who is guiding us through the heart so actually if somebody is offering gratitude offering something good for us we are grateful for that we don't see that when we say somebody is an agent of Krishna's love that doesn't mean that that person doesn't have or that person is not offering love to us they also have to be willing to become agents of Krishna's love we do credit when somebody is offering love for us care, kindness we do credit for that I'm not talking about reducing that person to depersonalised just a chain or link or something like that we see them as a conscious person who is choosing to love us what I'm talking about is not reducing ourselves based on that relationship that means that if this person doesn't care for me that means I'm unloved this person was caring for me, it's good but now this person doesn't care for me that doesn't mean that Krishna doesn't care Krishna would care for me for this person Krishna would care for me for some other person did you answer the question? yes yes please yeah you had a question yeah okay yeah I got it yeah so if somebody is working in a place where say some kind of anti-devotional activity is happening say it's a meat packing industry or something like that then what should we do in such a situation ideally speaking we want to avoid any involvement in a profession which is directly anti-devotional at the same time bhakti is not limited by anything bhakti is the soul's connection with Krishna it can be impeded but it's not stopped by anything so sometimes we may just be put in a circumstantial situation where a person has to a person we just have no alternatives suppose there are people who have been for many many generations their family has been fishermen and if they become devotees that's all that they know they will not be able to give it up so whatever happens we should firstly never give up the practise of bhakti whatever happens secondly while practising bhakti even if there is some wrong activity wrong activity involves some wrong profession we can see within that profession whether we can gravitate towards the least amount of direct involvement so that way we are not directly hands on involved in that wrong activity as much as possible secondly we try to as much as possible try to find some other profession if it is possible if it is and we do diligently try Krishna will arrange something if that doesn't work out then we can see that as also a way we can serve Krishna so that means we don't have to we can we can find a virtue even necessity that means that okay this is what I have to do but may I am trying to give up this I am trying to move on but it's not working out what I get is maybe this is the way Krishna wants me to bring him to the people in this position so it's not that we may directly preach how we present Krishna sometimes Krishna may put devotees in particular situations which they don't want to be in for some higher purpose so there is one devotee who was in the American army and he had to go to Iraq he didn't want to go his mission master told me if it's your job you go no I will have to kill it's your job just do it so when he went there when he was in the army and he was trying to preach to his friends they were not at all interested his colleagues but when they were in the middle of war the Iraqi insurgents they were outnumbered so they were just doing ambush attacks and all the American soldiers were in great stress so he was like a squadron leader and he because he throughout I was chanting Krishna Krishna Krishna he says it was in the war fields of the middle east that I discovered how wonderful the name of Krishna was it just calmed me down it gave me some stability and he was by his cool headedness he was able to deal with a lot of he was able to lead his team through a lot of dangerous situations so after one of them his colleague asked him sir how do you stay so cool and then as he realised he said I understood why Krishna had brought me to the middle east he says there in America they were not interested in hearing but now with their existence being on the border of life or death they were really interested so he told them I understood spiritually that I am not the body I am the soul as soon as he told me and I tried to stay at the spiritual level by chanting they were really interested many of them started hearing the Bhagavad Gita and he was a good singer so he started doing doing kirtans in the American army campus and I think that was he did the first Rath Yatra in Iraq in the American barracks so he wrote a series of articles about his experience called the Battlefield Bhajans so as devotees we can try to find a virtue even in necessity so if sometimes Krishna puts us in a particular situation where anti devotional activities are just a part of the whole thing again we shouldn't be resentful instead be resentful just see how can I serve Krishna in this situation and then Krishna will reveal his plan and then either we will continue there or we will come out of there just see that also as a service and try to see how we can do that service ok great so thank all of you very much for your patient hearing for the last few days more than 24 hours my classes are a little intense intellectually so all of you had a remarkable level of patience to endure all this thank you very much Shri Prabhupada Ki Jai Jai Jai Jai so thank you once again.