From misunderstanding to understanding – Rama Katha

From misunderstanding to understanding – Rama katha 1

From misunderstanding to understanding – Rama katha 2

From misunderstanding to understanding – Rama katha 3

From misunderstanding to understanding – Rama katha 4

Today evening. So, as I mentioned a little bit before this introduction, I will speak on the topic of Ramayana.

And I will give three different incidents from the Ramayana which we will discuss over the next few days. And the underlying theme will be moving from misunderstanding to understanding. Now, the Ramayana is a book which is centred on how human relationships can mirror divine relationships.

That Lord Rama, he is the supreme person. At the same time, he does not stand above everyone else in majestic isolation. He is a God.

He is a manifestation of God who is very much present in this world in the midst of multifarious set of human relationships. He of course is God and the relationship with him is divine. At the same time, he through the various characters that are there in the Mahabharata and the Ramayana actually demonstrates the whole gamut of human relationships.

How sometimes some relationships can go wrong and how some relationships that have gone wrong can be set right and how some relationships can stay right all the time. And one of the greatest pitfalls in relationships is misunderstanding. The theme of our talk should be from misunderstanding to understanding.

And today I will talk about a relationship which began before, much before Lord Rama comes into the picture. But then Lord Rama helps to restore the relationship. This is the relationship of the two brothers, Vani and Supriya.

Both of them were Vanaras. Sometimes the word Vanara is translated as monkeys. However, they were not just ordinary monkeys.

The Vanaras were celestial apes. And that means that some of them were as powerful as humans. Some of them were more powerful than humans also.

Vani and Supriya were actually the sons of the two Devatas, Indra and Supriya. So Vani was the son of Indra. Sorry, Vani was the son of Indra.

Subhadra was the son of Supriya. Just as in the cosmic hierarchy, among the hierarchy of the Devatas, Indra is higher than Supriya. Similarly, his son Vani was much stronger than Subhadra.

Just as Indra, simply because of his power and position is given to bouts of pride and arrogance. Similarly, Vani too was tended to become proud and arrogant about his own strength and power. Just as Indra and Supriya worked together to maintain the administration of the universe.

Similarly, their sons Vani and Supriya worked together to maintain the kingdom of the monarchs. So their father was… So they had many of the characters in the epics, Ramayana, Mahabharata. Often they have a dual set of parents.

So they have celestial parents and their parentage manifests through some agent in this world also. So Raksha Raj was the king and when Raksha Raj retired at that time, Vani, as the eldest son, became the king. And Sugriva became his faithful assistant.

And the two brothers were inseparable. They were so powerful together that nobody could challenge them. And the Vanaras lived in safety and prosperity under the protection of these two brothers.

Now Vani and Sugriva together were like the awesome two sons. Extremely powerful. Very difficult for anyone to counter.

And normally there are many people in this world who are proud of whatever they possess. So generally speaking, whatever we possess, if we want to get some pleasure through that possession, we have to parade that possession. If I have wealth, then I have to have a very expensive car, very expensive house, very expensive clothes.

By that I parade my wealth. And then when I see the admiration in people's eyes, actually more often than not, it is not admiration, it is envy. When I see that, then I feel, yes, I have arrived.

I am successful. The idea is, whenever there is strength, if we want to parade, whatever is it that we have, that we are proud of, we want to parade it. And we think that's how I will get measured.

So there were many demons who also lived at that time on the earth. And these demons, they are very proud of their strength. So we humans are actually intermediating the cosmic hierarchy.

So devatas are above us in consciousness and in power. The asuras, they are below us in consciousness, but they are above us in power. So the rakshasas, many of them, they felt that, who are these vamaras? We will show them.

So once a demon of the name Mayavi, he came to the kingdom of the one earth and he challenged one to come for a fight. So, actually, even there, we see that, when Valu came to attack, Mayavi was a demon. But even such a demon, he did not come in to the kingdom and start attacking innocent people.

What he did was, he stood outside the kingdom and he challenged, Oh, you think you are so powerful? Come out and fight with me. I will crush your mind. So even the demons had some principles that they would not attack innocent people.

Sometimes, I was just a few days ago at Jacksonville University in Florida and then after a class a student asked this question, you know, religion is the cause of so much violence in today's world. And, you see that, sometimes people say that Islam is the cause of violence. But we see, even in the Indian epics, there is so much violence.

So, why is it that religion is always associated with violence? So I answered that actually, yes. We should not have a paranoia for violence. In the sense that, even when you want to keep peace, often the United Nations deploys a peacekeeping force.

So for peace, we need force. So that means, there is some violence that is good, but it's for causing peace, for bringing about peace. There is some violence which is bad, which is simply brutal.

So if we compare, say the violence that is described in the Mahabharata, or the Ramayana, so the principles based on which whatever wars were fought, were that the warriors would fight the warriors. So the battle would be between equals. And not only between equals, equals when they are equipped.

Now one warrior would not attack another warrior who is not at all equipped. And not only equipped, you may have a bow and arrow, and somebody is shooting someone else, and somebody shoots from the other side. No, they are equipped and alert.

So the wars were a test of skill and expertise. Who is a better archer? Who is a better swordsman? So it was about equals who were equipped and alert. But today, if we see the violence that is perpetrated in the name of religion, especially done by terrorists, it's exactly the antithesis of this.

The terrorists, they attack civilians. They are no means equals. They are not trained to fight.

They are not equipped to fight. And they are just civilians just going along in their normal way of living. And suddenly, some suicide bomber comes and attacks, or some people come and shoot.

So this is completely an antithesis of any kind of principled war. The closest we get anywhere to this kind of violence in the ethics is Ashwathama's killing of the Pandava warriors and the Pandava sons at night on the 18th night of the Kanchipuram. And that is universally condemned.

Even Duryodhana condemns it. So the kind of violence that Ashwathama does, all other warriors are sleeping and he goes and kills them. So even the villain of the Mahabharata condemns it.

But that is the kind of violence that is perpetrated in the name of religion by the terrorists. So we can't conflate all violence together and say that religion causes violence. Actually, there is often… Police have to have guns.

But the police using guns and the terrorists using guns is very different. So here we see even the demon, Mayavi is a demon, but when he comes to fight, he doesn't start working here or in Kishti. He stands at the outskirts of Kishti and bellows out the challenge.

Oh Ali, come and fight with me. Now Ali springs from his throne and charges out. And Sugriva is on alert.

He knows that these demons can be tricksters. So it could be. Wali is more than capable of overcoming any demon.

But this might be an ambush attack. There might be a whole horde of demons who might attack Wali. And so Sugriva also goes with him.

So Wali intends on having a fair one-to-one fight. But in case the demons are planning something devious, Sugriva is there to guard. But now when Mayavi sees both of these giant-looking monkeys charging towards him, he gets shaken.

He shrinks back in fear. And then he assesses their strength. He's also a warrior.

He knows how strong he is. He realises, I am no match against them. And he flees.

Now as he flees, Wali starts thinking. He says, this demon, he has the audacity to… He has the audacity to come and challenge me right on the outskirts of my kingdom. If he's not punished, then he's likely to come again.

So he gives chase. And this demon is trying to shake him off, shake him off. And he runs into this thicket, goes into that forest, tries to hide in the wilderness.

Why? The Wanderers are also adept. They are also creatures of the jungle. So they keep chasing him.

And finally, in despair, he just jumps into a cave and disappears into it. Initially, the Wanderers… Initially, Wali and Sugriva think that, oh, we've got him now. In this cave, he cannot escape.

But as Wali enters the cave, he observes. And he realises, actually this cave is the entrance to a vague network of underground passageways, catacombs, complex mazes there underneath. So he tells Sugriva, you wait here.

We don't want him to escape without an issue. I will go inside and catch him. Sugriva says, no, this is dark, these demons are dangerous.

They're devious. Let me come with you. Both of us will go together.

Wali says, no. We have to make sure that he doesn't escape. You stay here.

Sugriva pleads with him. We don't know what danger is there inside. Let us both go together.

Wali says, no, you stay here. Reluctantly, Sugriva agrees, the younger brother. So while Wali goes inside, he just goes deep inside.

Sugriva is standing guard. And time ticks on and on and on. Sugriva is waiting and waiting and waiting.

And nothing seems to be happening. He tries to peer in. It's pitch dark inside the cave.

He thinks of going inside. But then he realises that the demon might escape. He doesn't want to disobey his brother.

He stays on. And finally, after a long time, suddenly he hears the roar of the demon. And he tries to wait and hear.

He doesn't hear any sound of his brother. As he keeps waiting, there's complete silence. He's waiting, waiting, waiting.

And when there's any silence, that's all that he hears, his heart starts sinking. He has heard the demon roaring, but he has not heard his brother. He starts thinking that somehow this demon in the darkness of the cave must have ambushed Vali and killed him.

He starts thinking, his blood is boiling with anger. He wants to avenge the death of Vali. But then he starts thinking, if this demon is powerful enough to have killed Vali, who was much more powerful than him, will I really be able to kill him? And if I am not able to kill him, if he comes out, if he defeats me, if he kills me, then our kingdom will stay unprotected.

And he will go, and with both my brother and me dead, he will break everything up. Plunder everything. So he decides that discretion is the better part of danger.

So he decides not to fight with him. And so that this cave became the tomb of Vali. Let that cave also become the tomb of Vali's people.

Thinking thus, he looks around, and he finds a huge boulder. He goes to that boulder and starts pushing with all his strength. Pushes and pushes and pushes.

And finally he gets that boulder on the mouth of that cave. And covers it. And with a heavy heart, he goes back to the kingdom.

And going back, he announces to the citizens about what happened. And there is a state-wide warming on the death of the king. And then, after all the rituals are completed, the courtiers tell him, the kingdom needs a king.

And Vali's son Angada is still very strong. He cannot become the king. And Vali, you were the second-in-charge.

So now you should become the king. So Birivaya has no heart. His heart is filled with grief.

But still, the call of duty summons him and he agrees. Now, as he ascends the throne, he is still thinking of Vali. And the sad thing to Vali had been in the past.

In the meanwhile, Vali had to search deep into the kingdom. And finally, when he had found the demon, he had pounced on the demon. And when he had pounced on the demon, because Vali had been searching for the demon for a long time, and he attacked the demon at that time, the demon screams.

And they have a fierce fight and Vali overpowers him. Because they are deep inside the cave, Vali doesn't want to waste his energy. He has got the demon in his hands, so he doesn't roar or shout.

He fights and he finishes the demon. And then he comes out. And as he is coming out triumphantly, and as he comes to the end of the cave, he sees light.

He is retracing the steps back. He comes to the end of the cave, he doesn't see any light. He says, what's going on here? He comes and he sees there is a huge boulder over there.

How did this boulder come over here? Sometimes there are earthquakes, and earthquakes just cause some rocks to move here and there. But he finds that this boulder is exactly covering the… Sugriva is supposed to be here. Instead of Sugriva there is a boulder.

So what is going on? He starts becoming suspicious. He says, of course Sugriva has put this boulder over here. He says, no, Sugriva is not there.

He is like my second half. I don't trust him. No one I trust more than him.

He will not betray me like this. No, but if he has not done this, how could this boulder have just exactly covered the door like this? Now, he is underneath and pushes at the boulder. He just cannot push.

He cannot even budge. He is being tired. He is tired after a long chase, the fight, and the return.

He just collapses. And he falls asleep over there. He wakes up.

As soon as he wakes up in the pitch darkness, he is hungry, he is thirsty, and all this adds to his anger. And again he starts pushing. He is not able to push at all.

As his efforts lead to greater and greater failure, not only does the anger increase, but suspicion also increases. Such a big boulder, so firmly placed, it cannot be a chance. How could Sugriva do this to me? Thinking like this becomes more and more annoying.

Finally, with a superhuman effort, a super simian effort, he is not a human, so, he just pushes. And he manages to get the boulder off. And seething with rage, charges back into the cave.

When he comes there, he sees Sugriva sitting on the throne. His suspicion is gone. He says, there is Vraja and Sugriva.

He conspired to kill me And now he is enjoying royal comfort. Sugriva, seeing Vali alive, is delighted. Sugriva gets up to offer his respects to Vali.

And then Vali charges towards him to start pounding him. Sugriva is stunned. As he sees the fury and the hatred in the eyes of Vali, he understands, he is also a king, a king means he is also in front of the royal family.

He understands that Vali must be suspecting. Vali must be thinking that, I killed him, I trapped him over there. He tries to explain to Vali.

But, Vali is so angry. He just doesn't hear anything. He just keeps pounding him, pounding him.

Sugriva tries to defend himself. And he tries to fight back. But at this stage, he has no heart left to fight.

There is a thought that his own brother, following a dedicated life, has not only suspected him, but has convicted him. He is not even ready to give a chance for him to speak. He is not even giving him a fair hearing.

That causes heart to sink. Rather than fight, he just decides to flee. Later, maybe when Sugriva has cooled down, when Vali has cooled down, then I will try to explain.

It will be like this. He flees from there. And when he flees, Vali's suspicion gets further confirmed.

If he had not done wrong, why would he feel like this? Sugriva is a wretch. I trusted him so much. He betrayed me so bitterly.

He starts charging after Sugriva to keep beating Sugriva. Sugriva flees and flees. And now, Vali returns back to the kingdom.

But then he uses his royal power to pursue and persecute Sugriva. And Sugriva has to flee far and wide somehow to find a shelter somewhere. Finally, he finds a shelter.

And the banks of the compass are over. A sage who had been angered by Vali's arrows told Vali, if you come here, you will be killed. Therefore, Vali can't come there.

And there, Sugriva stays in fear. Knowing that though Vali can't come, Vali may send his aegis to kill him. And that's when Ram comes there.

After Sita has been abducted, Ram comes there with Lakshmi. Vali is on top of a mountain and he sees. What is going on? Who are these two strange-looking mystics? Normally, Ram has the garb of a mystic.

Not a mystic or a mendicant or a sage. But then he is carrying a bow and arrow. He says, who are these three? They are so powerful.

And either they are brahmanas or they are kshatriyas. They dress like brahmanas, but they are carrying their weapons like kshatriyas. Who are these? Could they be aegis of Sugriva? Could they be aegis of Vali? He starts becoming fearful like this.

So here we see that Sugriva becomes so fearful constantly of how Vali will attack. And Vali, the same brother whom he had loved so much, is constantly thinking, how can I finish this person? So, if you look at the whole story, what went wrong? How could two brothers who loved each other so much, that they were ready to lay down their lives for each other, how could they become such mortal enemies that one of them was ready to kill the other and the other had to flee for his life, constantly being fearful of him? Actually, this incident illustrates our fundamental human tendency. That, a fundamental human tendency that often ruins relationships.

And that tendency is the tendency for judging without understanding. We see certain situations and we see a situation and without understanding the situation, we judge it. We see somebody doing something, why is this person doing this? So we all, when we interact with people, all that we can see is their behaviour, their actions.

Now we can't see their intentions. But, we all, based on their actions, we ascribe intention to them. This is called as attribution.

Attribution means, we see a behaviour, we see action, and we attribute a particular intention to people based on their action. And often, we attribute intentions based on our own preconceptions. So for example, if I don't like someone, for whatever reason, I don't like some person.

And then, if I see that person eating a lot, I say, this person is gluttonous. This person is gluttonous. See, how much is he eating? What is this? No sense control.

How much did he eat? On the other hand, if he likes someone, he must be very hungry. Of course, if I eat a lot, I am also hungry. So, our attribution, what intention we attribute to a person when we see their actions, that is based on our preconception.

And in general, we are very generous, very charitable when the attribution comes to those whom we like, or to ourselves. Now, if we see somebody… If we see somebody who we don't like sleeping for a long time, such a lazy person. If I sleep for a long time, I am tired.

So in this way, we see actions, we can't do intentions. But we assume the intentions. We say, attributes of intentions.

And this is where we go wrong. Now, Wali and Sugriva both made inferences. And the inferences of both of them were wrong.

So both of them saw certain things. Sugriva saw that Wali has gone deep inside the cave and I can't hear any sound. So based on the evidence that he had, that I can't hear any sound of Wali, and he has gone deep in, I can hear only the sound of the demon.

I can't hear the sound. From this evidence, he inferred that Wali is dead. It's a reasonable inference.

Similarly, Wali inferred he saw first this rock, this boulder which could not have been moved by an actual force and positioned in such a precise way. And that is covering the cave. Somebody must have done it.

So the boulder was one evidence. Maybe Sugriva has done this. And then, he saw Sugriva sitting on the kingdom.

That was another evidence. He put two and two together and he came to 22. He didn't come to four.

Then boulder was put by Sugriva. Sugriva is sitting on the throne. He put the two together and he said that Sugriva must have intentionally put that boulder there to shut me down and grab the throne.

So again, from his perspective, based on the evidence, the inference was reasonable. So both of them, based on whatever knowledge they had, they made inferences. And their inferences were reasonable.

And interestingly, both their inferences were wrong. So Sugriva's inference was wrong. His Wali was still alive.

And Wali's inference was wrong because Sugriva had no bad intention. The difference is that Sugriva was in a situation where he could not, he felt that he could not risk any error. That means, he felt that his demon was so powerful that he could kill Wali.

And then, I have to protect my kingdom. I have to do what it takes. So, he closed the door of the cave, the entry of the cave.

As far as Wali was concerned, he was much more powerful than Sugriva. And Sugriva had already served him for so long, so well. Sugriva was at least he was at least entitled to a fair hearing.

So, what happened with Wali is he judged without understanding. Normally, we know a basic principle in any court case that if the plaintiff is there, the plaintiff gives the complaint. Sometimes there are these, maybe some TV serials or where, the court cases are being shown.

Now, if we hear just the plaintiff with the complainant's side of the story, and by the end of, the complainant's lawyer makes the case, it's completely true and this person is guilty. But then you hear the defendant's side of the story and say, I never thought of this. I never thought of this.

So, usually what happens for us, when we observe something. So, in a court case, whoever speaks first, we present their case in such a persuasive way that we think they are right. Till we hear the other side of the story.

So, we understand as a principle of natural justice that before a judge makes any decision, the judge should hear both sides of the story. This same principle, we need to apply in the court of our own heart. In the court of our own heart means, whenever we see a situation based on our own conceptions about the people involved, our mind immediately comes up with a story.

They did it like this. They meant like this. Now, this is our mind's version of the story.

There could very well be a completely different version of the story. And we don't know it. So, now in one of the fondest pastimes of people is gossiping.

Gossiping means what? The word gossip in Sanskrit, in the bhakti literature, is prajna. It's useless talk. Gossiping essentially means what? We talk about a problem with someone who is neither a part of the problem nor a part of the solution.

You know what he did? You know what she did? Actually, what are we doing by that? Certainly, there are things which are going wrong and they need to be solved. But then, if somebody is a part of the problem or somebody is a part of the solution, then talk with them. Otherwise, what purpose do we serve by spreading negativity? Often, it is that if we feel that somebody has done something wrong, it is best to seek a clarification.

If we have a relationship, seek a clarification from that person. If not, seek a clarification from someone whom that person knows. Who knows that person? Otherwise, we end up talking about people instead of talking with people.

Talking about someone instead of talking with that person. And that just spreads misunderstanding. It spreads misunderstanding further and further.

What they did? What that person did? What that person did? And it becomes like a small thing can become huge. And actually, there is very little basis to it. Our mind is telling one side of the story and then we tell that story to someone else.

Can you keep a secret? Can you keep a secret? We tell someone. Yes, of course, I can keep a secret. And then we tell them.

And then they go ask them. Can you keep a secret? And in that way, what happens is everybody tells everyone else to keep the secret. But they themselves won't keep the secret.

So, what is secret becomes public knowledge. And in that way, the misunderstandings can spread not just from one person to another person, to hundreds of people. And nowadays, with internet available, if one person has some idea about someone, you just put it in one mass mail, send it on one WhatsApp group, put it on some website, and you can just spread conceptions all over the world.

So, technology is very powerful. But, its power is its power is value-neutral. If intelligent people use it, if wise people use it, good people use it, it can do good.

But otherwise, it can cause a lot of harm. So, the tendency to judge without understanding, that is a tendency which is present in everyone else. You know, in cricket, there is the concept of giving the benefit of doubt.

Suppose a batsman is running, and the batsman has to get into the crease before the fielder hits the wicket. And the batsman is just almost inside. Then, the third umpire will check from the left, from the right, from various directions.

Okay, the bat is inside the line. Has the bat touched the ground on it? And if they can't make out from various directions, then, they give the benefit of doubt. Okay, the batsman is inside.

So, there is doubt. There are times when we can doubt, and there are times when we need to give the benefit of doubt. So, as far as Sugreeva was concerned, as far as Wally was concerned, his relationship with Sugreeva.

Sugreeva deserved the benefit of doubt. Why? Sugreeva is his own brother. Sugreeva had served him faithfully.

He knew Sugreeva right from his childhood. Now, it is possible that sometimes people can change, and people can do terrible things. But, if somebody whom we love and trust, we are accusing them of something terrible, then we need to have concrete evidence.

Otherwise, it is just a chain of inferences. This means this, this means this, this means this. The chain of inferences that we have, that can just be our imagination going wild.

So, in the case of Wally, he, he saw Sugreeva, the evidence was reasonable. As I said, the evidence was there. And from that, his inference was reasonable.

But actually, for us, in whatever situation we are, based on whatever we observe, our mind spins a story. And for us, our story is the most persuasive. Why? Because I am right.

I am so clever. How can I be wrong? And quite often, it makes things worse. Once we make a particular judgement about someone, then, it doesn't just remain a judgement about that person, it becomes an ego issue about us.

How could I be wrong? If somebody comes and starts presenting evidence, you did like this, you spoke like this. But you know, this person is like this. You are biassed.

You are partial to that person. So, instead of considering the possibility that I may be wrong, we start blaming whoever starts presenting the case of that person. So, Wally, after he banished Sugreeva, there were times when he felt some pinches of conscience.

Did I do something wrong with that person? I just sent him off in the forest. And he had his spies. And the spies, he knew that Wally was living in the Pampas Lake area.

He was living in the forest without any royal comforts. And he was also a prince, a king practically. And he for him, this was just like Ram was one day about to become the king, son of the king, and the next day he was in the forest.

Similarly, for Sugreeva, one day he was next to the king and next day he was in exile. So, it was a great austerity for him. Wally felt some pinches of conscience.

But he crushed them. He crushed them. Why? Because he felt I have made this judgement, my judgement must be right.

So we need to whenever we judge people, actually it is best that we don't judge people. Because when it comes to judging, unless we are putting in the time and thought and energy to understand both sides of the story. Based on one side of the story we judge, we are often wronged.

Understanding both sides of the story often takes time. If we are in a position where that matters, that issue matters very strongly to us, if we are in a position where making a decision is vitally important for us, then before judging a person, especially before publicly speaking negatively about someone, now we need to very carefully go through things. For Wali, he was the king and Sugriva was on the throne.

So for Wali to drive Sugriva out of the kingdom in the eye, public eye of everyone, that was a very strong public statement of condemnation. Not just condemnation but conviction. So many, I like to call this as the recipe for ruining relationships.

We all took out recipe for doing things positively. We all want to maintain our relationships. But, we often succumb to judging without understanding.

And if we do that, even the best of relationships that we may have, they can be ruined. So now, what could Wali have done differently? Simple thing. He could have allowed Sugriva a fair hearing.

So when we see somebody doing something, which we feel objectionable. When we feel that what they are doing is objectionable, then what do we do? If we feel it's a matter important enough for us to need to know what is right, then just go straight with it. And not in a judgemental way.

But in a gentle way. Privately. I saw this and I couldn't understand what was happening.

What made you do that? And then they explain. Sometimes people can also become very defensive. And we need to be careful about it.

But, seeking a clarification at least shows that person that we are not immediately judging them. We are not immediately condemning them. Not only did Wali not see the clarification, Wali did not hear the clarification even when Sugriva was trying to do that.

And in this way, Sugriva had to live in the forest for a long time. When Ram came into the Kishkindhe area, at that time, eventually, through the agency of Hanuman, that's a long story, I won't go into that. Hanuman, Sugriva told Hanuman, you go and find out who these brothers are.

And in order to maintain, conceal Sugriva's location and identity, Hanuman changed his form. He went in the reserve of Ram and Lakshmi. And he enquired from Ram and Lakshmi.

When he found out who they were, he was the prince of Ayodhya, he was delighted. And then he came back. He brought Ram and Lakshmi to Sugriva.

And Sugriva told his whole story. Now what happened at that time, Wali did not just drive Sugriva away. Sugriva had his own palace, Sugriva had his own family.

So, when Wali drove Sugriva away, he disentitled him of his position in the royal family. He took everything away from him. And somehow Wali got that idea that because Sugriva has betrayed him, because Sugriva has taken, Sugriva tried to take from me what was mine.

Therefore, to punish him, I will take from him what is his. So, he did not give him any of his royal wealth. He did not take anything with him.

And even Sugriva's wife, he took for himself. Now when Ram heard this, Ram was furious. He said that an elder brother is meant to protect the younger brother.

And for an elder brother to treat him like this, here we can see the difference between him and how Ram treats Bharat. Ram could also have, we will talk about that tomorrow. You know, Ram could have been a suspicious of Bharat.

Bharat was conniving with country. But, it's very different. So, an elder brother is often in a position like a father, a surrogate father.

She says, for him to treat you so badly, it is atrocious. She says, he deserves to be punished. Now, Sugriva also described how again and again he had tried to send messengers, tried to seek reconciliation, tried to offer clarification.

Never once was he willing to listen. So, Ram and Ram decided, we will punish him. So, he told Vani, we told Sugriva, you go and challenge Vani.

Sugriva said that Bharat will challenge him. He has much more power. I will be there in the end.

So, he went and challenged. And at that time, Vani came out and they had a fight. Sugriva fought to the best of his capacity.

But, Vani was too tough. Vani was beating and beating and beating Sugriva. And finally, Sugriva fled from there.

Sugriva fled. At that time, Vani came running back to the place where Ram was hiding. Ram was there.

And they came back to the hiding place and Ram came there and said, he said, you know, if you are not going to help me, why do you send me for fighting? Ram said, actually I wanted to fight. But, both of you look so similar. I couldn't recognise who is who.

So, now, he asked, how can Ram, how can you not recognise him? Ram said, so then what happened? Ram told Sugriva, you know, there should be some difference between them. So, Lakshman here has his garland. He put on his garland.

And Sugriva, he came before Lakshman. They could head down. And Lakshman put the garland.

The Acharya explained that actually, Sugriva, although he was the younger brother of the king, he was the younger brother. But, he had some pride in him. And he thought that Ram is my son.

But Lakshman, he is inferior. So, when Hanuman actually brought Ram and Lakshman to meet Sugriva for the first time. And Sugriva understood who they were.

Sugriva, he had a, even in the forest, even in the forest, there is etiquette. There is hierarchy. So, there is a stump of a tree on which Vali was sitting.

Or Sugriva was sitting. And then Vali pointed to another stump of a tree. He was more or less the same height.

And he offered that to Ram. But he did not offer anything to Lakshman. But Lakshman, the younger brother, I will talk of Ram.

So, Hanuman saw this. Hanuman was very sensitive. Hanuman immediately brought the stump of a tree and gave it to Lakshman.

So, throughout their dealings, Sugriva was quite negligent of Lakshman. Now, Lakshman is Lakshman, Balaram, they all represent the Guru. That is the spiritual master and the representative spiritual master.

So, Ram wanted to demonstrate that one cannot get the mercy of God without getting the mercy of the Guru. So, when Sugriva was garlanded by Lakshman. At that time, he bowed down so that he could put his garland.

That way, he offered his respects to Lakshman. And then, after that, Sugriva went to fight again. Sugriva was a little fearful.

He said, Ram, are you really going to help me? He said, yes, I don't know what I am going to do. Sugriva went again challenged. Vali was in the inner chambers.

He said, I gave this monkey just a quick beating. How is he coming back again? He wanted to beat him again. He immediately got up.

And now, Vali's wife, Tara, was very intelligent. She said, wait a minute, wait a minute. He said, yes.

Sugriva is also an intelligent monkey. He knows that he is not as strong as you. If he has again come to fight with you, you are sure it must be only because he is backed by someone who is more powerful.

Otherwise, he would not come. And, now Vali had become so arrogant, so over-confident of his strength that Vali would not eat a book and threaten him. I am so powerful.

So, every king has to have some espionage, some spies. And the spies report the movements of his enemies. But Vali was so proud that he would not pay any attention to the spies also.

But, Tara was still very diligent. And, she would also help in the royal affairs. So, when the spies would come and give news, if Vali would not pay any attention to them, then Tara would give news.

And then Tara would convey to Vali whatever she felt was important. So, Tara told it. You heard from the spies that Sugriva has formed an alliance with Ram.

And Ram is an extremely powerful person. So, he has killed formidable demons of the Atataka. Subahu.

So, he says, if that Ram is there, then to Vali that will be very dangerous. He said, don't worry. There is no danger for you.

I can fight against anyone. So, he just neglected Tara's words. And, he just charged out to fight.

As he came out to fight, again Vali and Sugriva had a fierce fight. And soon, Vali had the eyes of beating and beating Sugriva. And, Ram was behind her and he came out and took an arrow and shot.

When he shot that arrow, it just went in the chest of Vali. He just fell on the ground. Vali was shocked.

He said, who has shot me like this? This is grievously against the principles of warfare. He looked around and said, so then, he turned towards Ram. He said, how is it? I thought you are a virtuous king and you have fought so viciously.

You have attacked me without warning me when I was fighting with someone else. He said, this wicked Sugriva, first you tried to kill me. Now, he has spoiled you also.

He has contaminated you also. Because of this, you are fighting with us. So, Ram came out and Ram was very compassionate.

He said that O Vali, before judging whether I have killed you fairly or unfairly, since here all I have to say. And, if you think that I have wounded you unfairly, I will take out this arrow and I will kill you back again. This is Ram's voice.

He can do whatever he wants. He is God. There is a whole chapter in the Ramayana where Vali accuses and Ram counters.

Ram gives multiple reasons. First reason he says is that actually, you there are Atatayinas, aggressors. People who commit crimes, especially people who commit brutal crimes.

There are various categories. Somebody who murders, somebody who burns, somebody who abducts somebody's family, somebody who steals property. Like that, those who are those who do poison.

Those who are aggressive like this, they have already committed such a crime that there is nothing wrong in punishing them. Sometimes, if the criminal is very brutal, the police may give a shoot-at-sight order. So, normal criminals, they have been given a fair hearing.

After that, there is a sentencing in the court and then the person can be punished. But if the criminal is particularly despicable, then there is a shoot-at-sight order. This person is so dangerous that we cannot afford to even consider the possibility of such a person slipping up.

So, just as soon as you see, shoot-at-sight. This is exceptional. It's not the norm.

Normally, police are expected to give a fair hearing. But there are times when this kind of order has to be given. So, similarly, in the Vedic culture it is stated that actually if a person attacks with murderous intent, atatayana, an aggressor of this kind, then the important thing is to bring that person to justice.

So, if it can be done the normal way, then it's fine. If not, then whatever means is required, use that means. So, now he says, because you had attacked Supriya, because you had tried to kill him, because you had dispossessed him of his kingdom, because you had stolen his wife, for elder brother to cohabit with his younger brother's wife is almost like incest.

Because of all this, he says, you deserve to be punished. The Ramayana commentary explains that actually one of the reasons why Vali was so undefeatable, Vali had overpowered Ravana also at one time. One of the reasons why Vali was so undefeatable was that he had got a benediction that whoever he would have to fight with, half of that person's power would come to him.

So, whatever power that person has, Vali has his own power, that person has this much power. Whatever power that person has, half of that person's power comes to him. So, that person's power would always become lesser than Vali's power.

So, because of that benediction, the odds were always stacked in favour of Vali. So, Vali just could not be defeated by anyone in a straight fight. Now, of course, whatever benediction whoever gets from anyone, Ram as God can change that.

But he defers to the cosmic order. So, if the devatas have given some blessings, then he honours that. So, Ram decided that that's how he would kill.

He says, you are an aggressor and whatever means, your crime that you committed is so despicable. You attacked your brother so viciously that in today's analysis, you deserve to be shot at sight. That's what I did with you.

It's a long two and four argument. And finally, Vali is all silent. He acknowledges that what he did was wrong.

Actually, for Vali also, his, Ram's arrow, initially, it crushes his pride because for a great warrior, they just fall on the ground. But Ram's heroic words, they purified him. The arrow which has humbled him now and Ram's words have enlightened him and illumined him.

This combination actually helps him realise the error of his ways. He also had these pangs of conscience. Am I treating someone unfair? Am I doing something wrong? But he just squelched them.

He had not paid any attention to them. However, now, when Ram speaks this, when he is confronted with the gravity of what he had done, at that time, there is no denying for him. He just has to accept.

I have done it. I have blundered terribly. And when Ram again repeats the opposite, he says that if you still think that I have done anything wrong, I will give you a life sentence.

So actually, Ram's words, Ram's contacts. But here, we have to see that Vali is not a demon. Sometimes, there is a clear fight between the Rakshasas.

Ravana, Kumbhakarna, they are demons. Indrajit is a demon. Vali is not a demon.

Vali is also a pious person. He is a virtuous person. He is a king of a son of a Devata.

But sometimes, such bitter misunderstandings can happen between two pious people also. Two people who are good, they can have a really bad fight. But Vali's conscience is Kumbhakarna.

And he, his godliness manifests. And he tells Ram, you know, all our lives, one can get many. But a death like this in your presence, it is very rare.

So I prefer a death in your presence. And he sees his heart completely changes a bit. His heart changes and he realises that he has blundered terribly.

So Ram's arrow could have killed him immediately. But Indra had given Vali a necklace. And that special necklace, as long as he wore it, life would not leave his body.

So although he had been terribly wounded, and although he was in pain still, life would not leave his body because that necklace was there. And what he did, naturally every father would like the best of his possessions to go to his son. That's what parents, they accumulate things so that they can pass them on to their children.

So now, after Vali falls, a news spreads throughout Kishkindha. And then Angada, Tara, all the courtiers come running out. And Angada is right next to Vali.

But Vali, he has his necklace. He starts taking his necklace out. And he realises that he had created a terrible split in the family.

But he wants that split to end with him. So he turns towards Sugriva and he says that Tara was very virtuous. She was very intelligent and she told me to patch up with you.

But I was so foolish that I didn't listen to her. He says, Angada, he is a very valiant young boy. Sugriva, whatever wrongs I have done to you, please don't take the anger out on them.

They are innocent. And he turns to Angada and he says that please don't blame Sugriva for what has happened. This arrow that has hit me is because of my own mistakes.

And then he tells Tara to stay under the shelter stay under the shelter of Sugriva. He would be the patriarch of the family thereafter. And then these are the last breaths.

He takes out his necklace. And he could well have been justified in giving that necklace to Angada. Father would give his best position to his son.

But he gives that necklace to Sugriva. And this is the way he shows his remorse. He seeks forgiveness from Sugriva and he says I treated you very badly.

But sometimes when we have made serious mistakes, an apology is important, but apology alone is not important. We have to show through our actions also that we mean that we made a mistake. So through this action one can raise how repentant he is.

And that means that with that necklace Sugriva will practically heal himself. And he gives that necklace to Sugriva. And as the necklace slips out of the hand of Vali into the hand of Sugriva life slips out of Vali's body.

Vali falls dead on the ground. And all the Vanaras they start crying in sorrow. Sugriva starts thinking, this was the brother with whom I played this much acting.

This was the brother with whom I learned the skills of a warrior. This was the brother with whom we went on so many happy exhibitions. This was the brother with whom I fought against so many demons.

This was the brother with whom I removed the skin. And this same brother is lying dead because of me. Because of my greed for a kingdom.

For a kingdom, I have caused the death of my brother. Sugriva starts crying bitterly. He says the same kingdom that killed my brother I would like another kingdom and I will die.

He says, I have committed the crime of genocide. I have killed my own brother. And I do not deserve to live.

So both Lakshman and Rama, they console. Sugriva, they tell him that the soul is eternal. The soul comes into the body, stays for a particular duration and then goes into another world.

Wali's soul has already come to auspicious destination. The best way you can show your love for Wali, you can show your respect for Wali is by carrying all responsibilities that he has entrusted to you. And it's for you, okay, now, to show resilience.

To show come over here and lead your citizens who are in grief. It is not for you to give in to grief. We speak words of wisdom.

Sugriva picks himself up emotionally and physically. And Sugriva arranges for a royal funeral for Wali. Thereafter, he after another period of mourning for his brother, then he ascends the throne.

And he enthrones Anjana as the prince. And that way, thereafter, they serve Rama together. So here, we see that there is a reconciliation.

The Pandavas and the Kauravas, there was no reconciliation. Why? Because one party was totally demoniac. Till the end.

But here, Wali was not demoniac. And Wali realised the error of his ways eventually. He repented and reformed.

So, all this could have been avoided if this tragic confrontation with brothers ending in the death of one brother, all this could have been avoided if just a little patience had been shown by Wali and some clarification had been sought. Now, here, Ram intervened. If Ram had not intervened, that animosity could have gone on throughout their life.

Throughout their life. Although it continued throughout their life, at least before death, there was reconciliation. And that's how Ram brought these two brothers together.

So, when we, I talked earlier about how we can try to avoid judging without understanding. When, if you look back at our life, there are many times when we actually judge without understanding. We have already probably judged people without understanding.

So, what do we do at that time? That is also illustrated through the actions of Wali. So, what did Wali do? If you consider the actions, I put them three in a triple A acronym. First is acknowledge.

Acknowledge. Acknowledge. Acknowledging is to recognise.

Accept that I made a mistake. So, acknowledgement is internal. Second is acknowledge us.

We express whatever, that I made a mistake to the person who has heard it. And third is admit it. Now, we do practically certain things.

We can't undo the past but we can rebuild from the present. What has been done can't be changed but we can chart a better future. So, by this way, whatever hurts have been done, they can be rectified.

So, we by acknowledging, by apologising and by amending, we can start healing the relationships that have been strained and wounded by our tendency to judge without understanding. You want me to ask you questions? So, I started by talking about the story of Wali and Sugriva, how they were brothers, sons of God, sons of Devatas all together but they both made mistaken inferences. Based on the evidence available to them, their inferences were reasonable but the evidence available to them was incomplete.

Now, Sugriva could not afford to do the benefit of doubt at that particular time because he felt the whole kingdom was at stake at that time. But Wali couldn't do the benefit of doubt. And all the more so because for Wali, his brother had always been a trustworthy king.

But unfortunately, when we see somebody's actions, we attribute intentions to them and that attribution which we do is based on our preconception about the person. If we like them, we give a positive attribution. If we don't like them, we give them a negative attribution.

And once we attribute a particular intention to people, then whatever they do after that, that reinforces that conception. Because he is like that, because she is like that, that's why they are doing this. And any evidence to the contrary that is presented, we just reject it.

We silence it. In that way, now at first our judgement is mistaken and then once our ego comes into the picture, we stick to that judgement against contrary evidences. That's what unfortunately Wali did.

He did not hear Subramanian's case. He did not hear anyone present in Subramanian's case. He did not hear his own conscience.

So whenever we, whenever any judge has to give a judgement, the judge needs to hear both sides of the story. So our mind, as soon as we see a particular thing, when we do attribution, our mind tells us one side of the story. But there is always the other side of the story.

Instead of talking with others, we end up talking about others. When we are talking about others, talking about X to Y, Z, A, B, C, E, every A, B, C, D, everyone we talk, but except that particular person. And then in that spot, we gossiping about others.

Gossiping means we talk about particular situation to the person who is neither part of the problem, nor part of the solution. And then, eventually, Ram had to intervene. And through Ram's physical, martial and verbal intervention, there's a reconciliation.

So when Bali was humbled by Ram's arrows and Ram's arrow necklace, he completely repented. And his repentance was expressed through his giving his life-sustaining necklace, not to his own son, but to his brother, whom he had robbed. And he acknowledged, he apologised, and he amended.

So by being patient, we can avoid judging without understanding. But if at all we are judged, then we can try to rectify Bali too. In a timely circumstance.

Thank you very much. Are there any questions or comments? I have a question. My question is, since we are part of the spiritual path, we are expected to do a lot more in government-run administrations.

So, if you are judged, like, we are judged, then how do we, like, how do we handle the situation? So, in spiritual life, we are often expected to do a lot more than others in terms of being patient and tolerant. But if we are judged or misjudged by others, what should we do as a society? Three different things involved over here. First is that we can never satisfy everyone.

The easiest way to make ourselves miserable is to try to make everyone happy with us. We just can't do it. So, some people, no matter what we do, they are going to be dissatisfied.

So, we just have to understand what service I have to do in my life and continue doing that service. And people will speak something about it. If we are consistently doing our service, then our actions will speak louder than words.

Having said that, there are certain devotees who are important for us, some of our spiritual guides, those who are in positions of authority or positions of what are they guiding us. With them, we can also give a clarification. Especially if we have one or two devotees who understand us well, then they can become as a bridge between us and others.

And through them, we can convey our side of the story and then it can be clarified to others also. So, that's the second thing. We don't have to bother about what everyone is thinking about us.

But if important, we can be clarified that is enough. But sometimes it happens that nobody seems to understand us. Now, I am giving this whole answer based on the assumption that we are actually being misjudged.

Sometimes it may be that we have also done something wrong. That's a different situation. But assuming that we are misjudged, if whatever we do, nothing seems to be clarified, nothing seems to be resolving things, then that is the time we should know that this is the time for us to exhibit some powers.

Because what happens, sometimes certain karmic reactions come to us in particular ways. So, it is not just that particular action to which we are getting the reaction. It's a small thing.

Why are you making so big? Do you understand that it is not just a small thing? Yes, a small thing has become big. But there is some karma involved in the past. If we look at our life and other situations, we may have made some big mistake but we got away without any penalisation for it.

So, in the long run, actually life balances out. So, when this happens, when we find that here there is misunderstanding, there there is misunderstanding, we just know that this is a bad patch we are going through. So, when we understand this is a bad patch, what can we do? Stop it.

When everything in life, everything in the material world is temporary, the pleasures are temporary and the problems are also temporary. So, even if there is a misunderstanding, everybody, you know, in Tanyuga, people's memories are short. So, today there is one controversy, there is one misunderstanding, tomorrow they will find some other misunderstanding, some other controversy.

And once they go to second, third, fourth, by the time they come to fourth of it, the first one they already forgot. So, we shouldn't take it too seriously. It's at that time, know that we are going through a bad patch and don't overdo it.

Just continue doing what we are doing as well as we can. And over a period of time, the misunderstanding goes away. So, we should just focus on our service to Krishna.

And as a service, we can try to clarify. But if the clarification doesn't work, we understand that the clarification I did, we should be, as we say, we should be attached to the fruits of our work. So, sometimes we also have to apply that to clarification.

We should be attached to the fruits of clarification. Sometimes we may offer a clarification and things may not get clarified. We have to understand that as long as our main service to Krishna is going on, sometimes some clarification may work, sometimes things may not work.

If we are consistently serving, consistently doing our best, over a period of time, things will get clarified. Great. Any other questions? There are two things.

One, your question is Subramanian and Ramayana, they had different followers. One question. So, if Sugriva and Vali, they had different fathers, Indra and Surya, how were they considered brothers? Actually, sometimes the Devatas, they, when the celestial give birth, it can happen, give birth to their progeny in this world, it can happen in different ways.

So, in this particular case, actually they arranged for both their children to come in this world through Riksharaj. Riksharaj. Riksharaj was the king of the Vanaras and they entrusted these two children whom they had in the heavens, they entrusted them to Riksharaj.

So, Riksharaj or the king of the Vanaras, he was like their foster father. He was the person who took care of them. And for all practical purposes, they lived as the children of Riksharaj.

And because he was their common father, that's how they were considered brothers. Yeah. The other question I had was, you mentioned that after after Vali passed away, Sudhir was lamenting that, look what I have done as a result of my grief for the kingdom.

And was that just an emotional expression of humility? Because he had done so much soul searching and introspection before he decided to make that cage Vali's tomb. And and he decided that he was really going to serve the throne to the protection of the kingdom, not for personal gain. So, how did he go from knowing that he had done that in good conscience to now saying that look I have done this for the greed of the kingdom.

Okay. So when Sugriva felt that I have killed my brother for my own grief, so he had actually very conscientiously thought out before putting the hole on the cave. So why did he think like this? Actually at this point he was thinking it is primarily about Vali's being shot by Ram.

That particular situation where Vali had been killed, he felt it was I who teamed with Ram and then Ram shot Vali because of me. He was thinking because of me he was killed. Now, Ram consoled him, see there is, there are emotions which we all go through and our emotions, they don't always reflect reality.

But our emotions reflect also our orientation, our sensitivity, our attitude. You see, if a person is starving on the streets, now one emotion they are just suffering the results of that. Now we may say this philosophically true, but from a point of a sensitivity, now if we are in a position to help them, we can and should help them.

We can give them some prasad, something we should do. So, sometimes the philosophical reality and the emotional sensitivity, they both need to go together and they may not go together. If I just focus only on the philosophical reality, you know, if everybody is simply suffering because of their karma, that's all, if we start looking at the whole of life in terms of karma, I'll talk about this in one of the future classes, we can end up becoming very hard hearted.

You know, if a baby is crying, should the mother think, baby is crying because of her karma. All the mothers will take care of the baby, isn't it? So, just, we cannot, the philosophical reality, in one sense, is object to reality. Karma is object to reality.

But we also have to consider from the view of emotional sensitivity. So, here, it just reflects Sugriva's soft heartedness, that he was not a power hungry person who had deviously conspired to have his brother killed so that he can grab on. Even after he had been wronged, even after he had justifiable grievances, then when his brother fell, still he felt grief.

That shows his soft heartedness. Does this answer your question? So, he was not at all to be blamed, but his feeling reflects his soft heartedness. And that's why when Ram consoled him, he accepted it.

He knew that in back of his mind, he knew that he was not to be blamed, but still he felt, you know, because of me this happened. So, these feelings simply reflect his sensitivity. I think it would be easier for me to accept that explanation, that somehow he could be soft hearted, yet you know, yet not denying the fact that he did act.

Somehow, I wish that the two could hold this you know, his sensitivity, without denying that he did act. So, he could have been in good conscience, and he could still have been sensitive also. He could have said that I acted in good conscience.

See, there is, when it comes to emotions, the emotions that we feel, they don't always follow the rules of logic. So, if we see Yudhishthir Maharaj's bhagavatam, after the whole Kungshekara war happens, he feels that I caused this war. For my sake, this whole war was caused by so many people.

Now, the reality is far opposite to that. Because Yudhishthir did everything possible to avoid the war. Sometimes we say, I have done everything humanly possible.

Actually, Yudhishthir has done everything humanly possible and everything divinely possible also. Krishna, God himself has gone to Shantiniketan. So, when we see people's emotions, especially under moments of stress, then we should see them, we can't start analysing, oh, why? We are not thinking logically.

At that time, we just appreciate the heart of the person. If they stick to that illogical emotion, then it becomes a problem. If Yudhishthir started acting on it, I will not lose, I will renounce the war, let everybody object.

No, no, you can't do that. Sugriva did not do that. So, especially under moments of stress, our emotions may go in various ways and nobody is to be judged based on those emotions.

So, even Lord Ram, sorry, Krishna tells Arjuna that the wise person does not lament at the time of death. Does not lament on seeing the death of anyone. But when Abhimanyu is killed, Arjuna is grief-struck.

And Krishna does not tell Arjuna, you forgot Bhagavad Gita now. You didn't say that. No, Krishna is sensitive, Krishna is gentle, Krishna is consoling, Krishna is encouraging.

So, when a person is going through a particular set of emotions, at that time, we have to encourage them to come back on the right track. We don't have to just dismiss their emotions as illogical or irrational. But sensitively get them on the right track.

So, it was stated in a lecture that when we see someone's actions, we attribute intention depending on whether we like them or not. So, my question is, if Ravi and Sugriva are brothers and there is so much love between them, how would Ravi immediately think that Sugriva's or, yeah, who would think that Sugriva's intentions were ill-minded if he already had a positive attribution to his brother? So, if we attribute intention based on our perception of people, why would Ravi attribute negative intention to Sugriva? Actually, it was not immediate. First was that in the cave, when he saw that the cave door was closed, from that time, the suspicion started coming.

And then he tried to push and push and the more that… this could not have been done naturally. Some person must have done it. And eventually, when he came out and when he saw Sugriva on the throne, he said, when I am alive, how can he be sitting on the throne? That was like a confirmation for him.

So, generally, yes. So, at that time, he was already exhausted, he was frustrated, and he was infuriated. That's not at all a good situation emotionally to be in to make a judgement.

You know, if, say, there is a court case going on against us, we don't want the judge to be in an angry mood at that time. We don't want the judge to be exhausted at that time. Sometimes, say, a cricket match is going on and the umpire is so exhausted, the umpire wants to go home.

The umpire starts every appeal, out, out, out. So, you know, the judgement has to be done with patience. So, actually, there was circumstance also involved over there.

But because he was in an emotionally starved state, you could say. Exhausted, frustrated, infuriated. That's how, through a chain of events, first the boulder closing, and then Sugriva sitting on the throne.

Both of them coupled. So, that's how his normal perception of Sugriva slowly got reversed. So, right from seeing the boulder, his positive perception started changing.

And eventually, when you saw him on the throne, complete negative perception came. So, among devotees, how do we ensure that we don't misunderstand others? Or if we misunderstand them, how can we come back to understanding soon? Actually, our bhakti is meant to make us more understanding. But unfortunately, understanding of others, but sometimes our bhakti makes us more judgemental of others.

So, what happens, we have our own conception. This is right, this is the way to do things. If anybody is doing anything in a different way, it's wrong, wrong, deviant, this, that, that.

We are very quick to pass ascribed labels to others based on our conception of potential. So, actually, if we internalise the philosophy of bhakti, not just at an intellectual level, but also at an emotional level, by that means, not just this is the principle, this is the principle, but we also understand the real reality of the complexity of life. Then we'll understand that there can be many factors involved.

Okay, this person is acting in this particular way. How much do I know about this person? So, it can start with something very simple or something very big. So, I remember once, I was in Mumbai temple and there was a festival.

So, after the festival, I came for lunch prasada to the temple kitchen. And then I had come a little late, I was talking with some devotees after the programme. So, by the time I came down, I saw much of the prasada was over.

The sweet was over. So, I felt a little annoyed. And I saw a senior devotee sitting on the opposite side.

He's a senior brahmachari. He, there was already sweet in his plate and the sweet had got over. So, then, immediately, after I sat down, this devotee started asking, you know, is there any sweet, is there any sweet? He's asking one sarovar and I said, no problem, the sweet is over.

He asked another sarovar, is there any sweet? I said, what is this? He already had one empty bowl of sweet. And the sarovar has told you there is no more sweet available. Why are you asking everyone like this? The second person, third person, asking everyone like this, because he's already a senior devotee.

And everybody started running around, is there any sweet somewhere? And many times when prasadams we serve, so, the devotees who are serving, they make their own plates beforehand. They keep them aside. So, one devotee finally brought his own plate.

And from his plate, he started serving sweet to me. How is that? You already had one empty and you want somebody else's plate sweet for yourself. And just as he was about to serve the sweet in his plate, he said, no, not for me, for him.

And he pointed to me. Wow! He did not get sweet. Please give him sweet.

So, he was asking for sweet, not for himself, but for me. And normally when somebody asks for sweet, it's actually what they wanted for themselves. So, in one sense, my attribution is perfectly logical.

But it was totally wrong. So, we just can't know why devotees are doing things. Vaishnavera Priya Mantra, Vikehana Bhoja.

We can't understand how devotees act. This does not mean that anything and everything within the devotee community is accepted. But it's important that we don't judge based on one of the instances.

And so by knowing that, by knowing that we don't know much about others, we don't know much about what people are thinking, why they are acting in particular ways. It is best to give people benefit of the doubt. Especially devotees.

If they are practising Bhakti, if they are practising the principles, if they are devoting substantial part of their lives for Krishna's service, then something which is going wrong, why should we make a big issue out of it? Now, having said that, there can be certain actions of some people which just disturb us too much. Now, if we feel disturbed, then it is best to seek clarification. If it's just a small thing, sometimes we see something, question mark in that.

But then afterwards, we move on, we forget about it. No need to make an issue about it. But something troubles us again.

Why did he do that? If that kind of question keeps troubling us, then better to seek clarification. And when we seek a clarification also, it's important to be non-judgemental. Non-judgemental means simply describe the observation.

As soon as we start stating our inference, then it becomes judgemental. So, if you just tell the observation, then seek it also. I couldn't understand what was happening over there.

And then, probably they will give a clarification or some single devotee will give a clarification. And even if sometimes that clarification may not satisfy us. So, especially if that devotee has also been practising bhakti for a good amount of time.

They have also been serving Krishna. Then we have to understand that there are different ways in which Krishna can serve. And Krishna can inspire someone to serve in a way that is very different from the way Krishna is inspiring me to serve.

So, we should not limit the service to Krishna in terms that is only comprehensible to us. So, service to Krishna can assume many many forms different from what I am capable of also. So, that way even if we can see that, okay, this is one thing which I don't understand.

But let me put it aside. Let me focus on my service to Krishna. That way we can minimise the disagreements that come.

Or the misunderstandings that come. I feel that if we clarify, most of the time we get some understanding. And the misunderstanding then decreases.

What makes things worse is that instead of seeking clarification, we start giving a judgement. And the other person becomes defensive. Or sometimes we talk with 10 people before talking with that person.

And those 10 people have already told that person, this person is thinking like this or that. And then when we talk with them also, already there is a lot of negativity that is coming. And then it becomes explosive.

So, best is to seek clarification in a non-judgemental way. Right in the beginning from an authoritative source. And if you find some senior Vaishnava whose way of explaining makes sense to us, just go and seek clarification.

And move on with life. We don't have to move. We don't have to make ourselves self-appointed watchdogs of everyone else.

That's not our role. We are here to serve Krishna. Let's keep serving Krishna.

And if something is wrong with someone, that is between them and Krishna. We don't have to take that position where we have to judge ourselves. Most important I would say for avoiding misunderstandings is focussing on our own self.

It's the idle mind that is what is showing. So, when we don't have enough service to do, then we start looking at other services and finding faults with it. If we have enough service to do, then okay.

Whatever others are doing, how does it matter to me? Let me focus on my service to Krishna. Does that answer the question? Thank you. I have two questions.

Which one? What time? Let me decide. Okay. I have two questions.

The first one is, does knowledge have any correlation with being self-sufficient? Knowledge. So, why is it in my own personal experience, while I was looking for this book, I could get a sense that I was self-sufficient when I had deep knowledge. Instead of deep knowledge, I had a lack of knowledge.

So, Krishna, my question is… Let me complete this. Does knowledge have any relationship with being judgemental? More than knowledge, it is the attitude that develops through the knowledge. That means that knowledge is ultimately a tool that we will use based on our attitude.

So, if, say, somebody has medical knowledge. Now, medical knowledge can be used to heal. A doctor can use medical knowledge to heal a patient.

But the same doctor can actually use the medical knowledge to complicate the disease of the patient so that they can get more money from the patient. So, knowledge is simply a tool. And it is our attitude that determines how we use that knowledge.

So, some of us have by default a judgemental mentality. That's just the way we are. It's not necessarily bad, but we all have different conditionings.

Some of us have a more judgemental mentality. If we have that, then our knowledge often reinforces that judgemental mentality. But if we use the knowledge conscientiously to open our minds to understand that actually one says, in the Kena Upanishad, it is said that one who thinks he knows, he does not know.

One who thinks that he does not know, he knows. That means that actually the more knowledge we get, the more we understand how complicated life is. How many subtleties and nuances and shades of grey there can be in every situation.

So, the more knowledge we get, that is the way our knowledge develops. Not so much in terms of just see how much I know. The more knowledge we get, the more how complicated the world is.

Then that knowledge engenders new knowledge. Just like the scientific knowledge of the space. At one level, people may say that we have conquered space.

Now, we have gone to this celestial body, that celestial body. We have conquered space. At the other level, if we consider the more we have come to know about outer space, we just understand how tiny we are.

As compared to the vastness of space, the earth is like a tiny marble. We go in a vast, vast, almost infinite space. So, the more we have come to know about outer space, the more we have come to know how little we know about outer space.

Because there is so much more to know. So, like that, knowledge can also bring humility. And when that happens, then the judgemental attitude goes down.

So, it will depend on our basic attitude, how we use our knowledge. But if we especially get knowledge from those who are non-judgemental or we associate with those who are non-judgemental, then our basic attitude can be changed. And then that knowledge, instead of leading to judgemental… See, judgement happens when we think we know.

But if there is humility… See, humility in the physical domain means we bow down. We fold our hands in respect. Humility in the intellectual domain means we admit that I don't know.

That I don't know. At least there is a possibility that I may not know the full story. That is humility in the intellectual domain.

So, if we get that humility in the intellectual domain, then our knowledge will make us less judgemental. Does that answer your question? I think so. The last one.

How to remain quiet and also how to remain quiet without being a bit agnostic in a state of distrust. Agnostic? Yeah, let's say, when we get away from this equation and we can't get out of this, then how can we maintain this state? Because I live in a job where I need to interact with lots of people across the country. Sometimes, you know, you hardly know all the people around you.

But how can I remain quiet? Because that leads to a confusion. Okay. So, if an environment has a lot of people and there is some amount of distrust, then how can we remain quiet and agnostic? Actually, the focus need not be on being quiet or agnostic or becoming assertive or alluring.

The point, the focus can be on our purpose. Now, what am I here to do? It's like if I'm driving on a road, you know, the most important thing for me to know is okay, what is the traffic on the road here? Which road, which turn I am to take? Which turn I am not to take? Now, if along the way there is scenery, I can look at the scenery. If along the way there is some dirt and foul smell, I just pass through it.

The important thing is not whether it's beautiful scenery or whether there is dirt and nastiness. The important thing is whether I am on my journey. So, if we keep our purpose clear in any situation, okay, what am I here for? What am I trying to do? Then that purpose creates focus.

See, when the purpose is not strong in our mind, our mind does not have focus. Think about this. Think about that.

If our purpose is clear, then that focus on itself helps us understand, okay, which situation I need to understand how much, where I need to clarify, where I need to understand, where I need to judge, how much I should spend my energy in what. All that falls into place once our purpose is clear and we are focused on the purpose. But, if, say, we are going to some office or some appointment, then we don't bother too much about what is the scenery around us.

It is just going on a casual stroll and we will see everything. So, like that, if you understand that this world itself, it is not our destination. It is not a destination, it is a station.

We are in a multi-lifetime journey. We are evolving towards God. The situation that we are in, it is just one station in the journey of our life.

We keep that in mind. We have to grow spiritually. We have to do whatever it takes in terms of our responsibilities in this world.

Our purpose is on doing those responsibilities and growing spiritually. Once that purpose is clear, then how much time and energy to invest, how to approach various situations, all that becomes much clearer. So, if you keep the focus in mind, then whether to stay quiet in some situations, whether to express our concern in those situations, whether to take a stand in a particular situation, all that will fall into place once the priorities are clear.

If you keep our focus in mind in all these questions, we will ourselves get the overall sense of perspective by which to understand this. Thank you very much. Shri Prabhupada ki, Shri Ramachandra Bhagwan ki, Shri Ram Mahamahotsav ki,.