From ritual to spiritual 3 – Analysis of Krishna’s pastime with the ritualistic brahmanas – The brahmanis selfless devotion
Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
Hare Krishna.
So, today we discussed the last part of the pastime of Krishna with the yogic brahmanas. The first part I focused on how the gopas, were encouraged by Krishna to persevere even if they didn't get success. Yesterday's part I discovered how the brahmanas, they got so much caught in the externals, that they stuck at the level of the rituals and forgot the purpose.
Today I'll focus on the central, you can say, heroes or heroines of this pastime. That is the brahmana patnis. So, because this ceremony was going on, in the, in a big ground, yagyas in the past were massive affairs.
Even in the, in this valley civilisation, or the Mohenjo-daro and Harappa civilisations, ancient Indian civilisations, they have been found, there have been huge sacrificial pits that are there. Today when people perform yagya, it's like a small pit in the ground. But the paths are huge.
So, this was a big, big sacrifice that was being performed. And the brahmanas were outside, arranging for it. And so the gopas had gone first to the brahmanas.
And when Krishna solaced them and told them, go to their wives. And they, they will not be disappointed. Krishna encouraged them to go back.
Now these gopas, at this time, Krishna, you know, he was seven when he lifted Govardhan Hill. And this is more or less the first canto pastimes, the 10th canto pastimes. Till the, till Krishna goes to Dwarka, they are more or less linear.
From the 56th chapter onwards, the 10th canto, as Shukadeva Goswami goes deeper and deeper into ecstasy, then his narration of the pastimes becomes more inspiration based than chronology based. So, till that point, it is more or less linear. So, we can see that at this point, Krishna is seven or eight years old.
It is said that at the age of seven, he lifted Govardhan Hill. At the age of eight, he performed the Raas Leela. This pastime happens in the Bhagavatam before the Govardhan Leela is performed.
So now, there is this, so Krishna tells the gopas, you go to the brahmana's wives. And when they hear that Krishna is there, and that Krishna is wanting food, now immediately, their hearts become interacted. At one level, even the brahmanas know that Krishna is God.
Because by this time, Krishna has killed many demons. But somehow, that knowledge doesn't stay in their heart. Because they are attached.
Sometimes spiritual knowledge can be like a light, and sometimes spiritual knowledge can be like a lightning. There is a lightning, it just lights for some time, complete clarity, and then again complete darkness. So, if we are very attached, then for some moment, spiritual knowledge makes a lot of sense.
Hey, this is right. But after some time, okay, later. It becomes like that.
So for them, the brahmanas, although they knew it, it didn't register in them. But for their wives, they were much more of a softer heart. And they were attracted to Krishna.
And they immediately took all the best food that had been prepared to be offered. And they went towards Krishna. Now, generally when the sacrifices are to be performed, at that time, the husband and wife are expected to be together.
So both of them perform the sacrifice together. So, the brahmana said, wait, where are you going? And where are you taking this food? So they tried to stop them. They tried to chastise them.
But they paid no attention. The wives paid no attention. Just went straight towards Krishna.
And as they went into the forest, Krishna was waiting there. And there's a beautiful series of verses in the Bhagavatam, which describes how they beheld the form of Krishna. It's one of the most, one of the sweetest descriptions of the beauty of Krishna comes at this point.
Now, before we go into that description of the beauty, I'd like to make a very interesting point, which Gopal, which Kavi Karnapur mentioned in Anuradha Vancham. So he explains that there are different ages of Krishna, which are best suited for particular flavours of relationships. So he says that, the Balarupa is the Vatsalya Rasa Ashraya.
It is when Krishna is in the baby form, or a very small child, that is when the maternal love is the most. Now, of course, mothers will always love their children. But when the children are very small, and they're especially dependent on their mothers, on their parents, at that time, the parental love is the most.
The Balarupa is the best, Vatsalya Rupa Ashraya. Or, Vatsalya Rasa Ashraya. Then, he says the Kumara Rupa.
When one is between the ages of, before the age of five is Balarupa. Kaumaram Archarit Pragya. The Bhagavatam says, Kaumaram is from the age of five onwards.
So, age of five to ten is roughly the Sakya Rasa Ashraya. That is the time when children start going out of their homes. And that's the time they start meeting with friends.
And friendships become very important for them. And then beyond that, so these ages, exact ages don't matter. But then when somebody comes to the youth, so the Yauvada Rupa of Krishna, that is the Madhurya Rasa Ashraya.
So, when one is in the teenage years, when in the youth years, early youth years, seventeen, eighteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, that is when the Madhurya Rasa, attraction between Krishna and Gopis becomes the highest. So now, the question will come, then, how old is Krishna in the spiritual world? If Yashoda Mai can reciprocate Krishna with Krishna best, when he is a small child. But if he is a small child, how will Radharani and the Gopis reciprocate with Krishna? So, Anandam Jampu explains that, the spiritual world is the world of Yogamaya.
Yogamaya means, it's actually, in English, it's called a oxymoron. Oxymoron means, you have two contradictory words brought together. Say for example, suicide is an act of courageous cowardice.
Courageous cowardice. Normally, to end one's life for any cause, it requires courage. Many times, people decide to commit suicide, they go and lie down on the train tracks, and then they hear the train sound coming, they get up, maybe another day.
So, it requires courage to end one's life. But, if one is ending one's life because of frustration, because of inability to deal with life's problems, then we could say that is cowardice. So, it's an act of courageous cowardice.
So, there are two contradictory ideas that are brought together. If somebody wants to criticise someone, you are brilliantly foolish. So, like that, Yogamaya is an oxymoron.
Because Yoga is that which connects us with Krishna. Yoga is the process by which the Atma connects with the Paramatma. Ultimately, we all connect with Krishna.
Maya is that which covers us and disconnects us from Krishna. So, Yogamaya, the two opposite words brought together. How can they come together? Actually, normally, illusion disconnects us from Krishna.
But, Yogamaya is the illusion that deepens our connection with Krishna. So, the Vrajavasis forget that Krishna is God and by that forgetfulness of Krishna's divinity, the intensity of their love for Krishna increases. So, it is the illusion that intensifies devotion.
So, now, everything in Vrindavan is orchestrated for the purpose of intensifying devotion. And that's why he says, that Krishna's Moola Rupa is the Yavan Rupa. Krishna is eternally youthful.
The Madhurya Rasa is the highest Rasa. Similarly, the Rupa is the Madhurya Rasa Ashraya. That is the original form of Krishna.
But, from this original form of Krishna, whichever form is necessary for intensifying the devotion of a particular devotee, that is the form that manifests. So, although Krishna is eternally 16 years old, in the spiritual world, when he is interacting with Yashodamayi, it appears she feels just like a 5 year old boy. And when he is interacting with the Sakas, it feels just like, 8, 9, 10 years old.
We are just having fun. So, Krishna is, ultimately, everything in the spiritual world is arranged for the intensification of devotion. So, everything is arranged appropriately.
So, although Krishna is 7 years old, at this particular time, and although Krishna is 8 years old, when he performs the Rasa Leela. But, when the Gopis come running to Krishna, at that time, they don't see him as an 8 year old boy. Now, for an 8 year old boy, you cannot have any romantic attraction.
So, when the Gopis come there, the Gopis see him as a blossoming youth. Similarly, the Brahman Padnis, when they come to Krishna, the form that is described of Krishna is not Balagopal over there. The form that is described is of the Shyamasundar, of Krishna as a youth.
And, the Brahman Padnis, when they leave their husband, they neglect their husbands, forbidding them to go, and just go straight to Krishna. At that time, they have taken a great risk to reject the authority of their husbands and go away like that. Of course, the Gopis take a much greater risk because they go at night.
But still, here also it is a risk for them, when they are going in the daytime. They are going away. But, they go to Krishna and they offer the food to Krishna.
And, Krishna accepts their offering. A very sweet interaction between them and Krishna. And then, finally, Krishna tells them that, Oh, Brahman Padnis, you have come.
Oh, Brahmanis, you have offered your devotion to me in the form of this food. I accept this devotion. Now, please return back to your husbands.
And, they are mortified. So, Krishna, we have left everything and come to you. How can we go back now? You are telling us to go back to our homes is like a river that has left the mountain and has come speedily down to the ocean.
And, the ocean tells the river, now go back to the mountain. He says, we can't go back. We have left everything to come and surrender our lives to you.
Then, Krishna tells them, Oh, Brahmanis, I accept your surrender. I accept your devotion. And, then he says, you can still be devoted to me while being at home.
Devotion to me does not require proximity to me. By hearing about me, by speaking about me, by remembering about me, you will still be devoted to me. You have expressed your devotion to me by giving up everything and coming to me.
And, now, as an expression of your devotion to me, I am asking you to go back. And, go back. And, now, there is a practical fear that they have.
They have neglected their husbands and come. What if their husbands reject them? So, Krishna says, no, I will take care. And, then, as they are beholding Krishna's form, they are drinking Krishna's beautiful form through their eyes, keeping that forever impressed in their hearts.
They offer their food to Krishna. Krishna honours this food, honours the food with great joy. Krishna honours the food, which is very opulent, cooked for the sacrifice.
But, he also honours their devotion. They taste their devotion. And, then, the brahmanas, with a heavy heart, depart.
And, they depart. At that time, in the meanwhile, because the brahmanas are caught in a conflict, normally, they are supposed to do the yajna with their wives. So, actually, when the gopas first go to the brahmanas, the gopas are also not ignorant.
There is a principle that if the yajna is about to start, then, for a certain time of duration, during the performance of the yajna, or just before the performance of the yajna, you cannot distribute food. Because, when food is eaten, at that time, there is a certain contamination. Cleaning has to be done.
So, the idea is that just before the yajna, for some time, food is not to be distributed. But, the gopas actually tell the brahmanas that that time has not yet started till now. So, you can give us some food now.
After some time, you are not able to give. But, right now, you can give. But, they neglect it.
And, now, when the brahmanis go and give the food, actually, the time of the yajna has already started. So, then, their husband, what to do? So, whatever food is remaining, and even their wives are not there, they decide to go and perform the yajna. Because, for yajna, muhurta, the time is very important.
And, when they perform the yajna, at that time, the devatas appear over there. And, they are pleasantly surprised, the brahmanas, because they are also agitated. What is this? There is no proper food over here.
Our wives have left us. How can we perform this yajna? They are apprehensive that this yajna will not be properly performed. And, therefore, there may be inauspiciousness.
So, when they see the devatas coming, they are very pleasantly surprised. Oh, the devatas come. So, normally, the devatas coming is considered to be a sign of the success of the yajna.
But, in this case, the devatas come, not because they are pleased, but because they are displeased. You know, sometimes, somebody is doing something, and they do it so well, that whoever is their boss, they go and congratulate them. Oh, you did it very well.
But, sometimes, somebody does it so wrong, that you have to go and intervene. Now, you are not doing it right. So, in this case, the devatas come, they are actually displeased.
And, they are displeased, they come, and they tell, what have you done? Yagyeshwar Krishna had come, but you declined. You missed out on the greatest opportunity of your life to get the perfect result of the yajna. Yajna is ultimately meant to, in a very indirect way, give the ahuti to Vishnu.
So, the devatas ultimately is meant to go to Vishnu. There is that well-known verse, which many Indians quote, that aakashat patitam toyam yatha saagaram gachyati sarvadeva namaskara achyutam keshavam pratigachyati So, just as when a drop of water falls from the skies to the rivers, all these drops ultimately flow to the ocean. So, similarly, whichever god we offer the worship to, that worship ultimately goes to Keshava.
So, some people use this to say that actually all gods are the same. Whichever god you want to worship, you can worship that. So, actually there are two ways to understand this.
First is that still, even if all gods are considered equal, still the point is Keshava is considered special. Because, worship of all the gods culminates in the worship of Keshava. So, in that sense, Lord Hari, Lord Krishna is considered special.
He is not just another god. He is the god who is to be worshipped by the worship of all other gods. But, another point, Vishwanath Chakrathapur explains that actually when the, when water flows into a river, drops go into the river and from there the drops go to the ocean.
He says, those who are offering the drops, they don't go to the ocean. Only the drops go to the ocean. Similarly, he says, the worship done to the devatas, that worship goes to Keshava, but the worshipper doesn't go to Keshava.
So, the worshipper, where will they go? यान्ति देव वर्ता देवान् पित्रन्यान्ति पित्रवतः भूतान्यान्ति भूतेज्या यान्ति मध्याजिनोपिमा So, the person whom we worship, that is the person to whom we will go. The worship will ultimately go to Keshava. But, the worshipper will not go to Keshava.
Because, the worshipper doesn't have that attraction to Keshava, doesn't have that devotion to Keshava. So, anyway, the point is that whenever this yajna is performed, there is an indirect way in which all the worship reaches Vishnu. But here, Vishnu himself came to accept that worship from you, and you neglected it.
You neglected it. It's terrible. And, the brahmanas are remorseful.
But, when the brahmana patnis come back, they are actually appreciative of them. Says, you understood the essence of scripture. You understood the essential purpose of all the sacrifices.
You understood the essence of dharma. And, thus, you went and surrendered to Krishna. But, we were so unfortunate that we got caught in the letter of the scripture.
And, we forgot the purpose of the scripture. We were so unfortunate. What is the dictum? Condemned is our ritualism.
Condemned is our elaborate mantra chanting. Condemned is our lighting of the sacred fire. Because, we forgot that it was all meant for Krishna.
At this point, if we compare these two incidents, this is, as I said, this particular pastime is before the Govardhan Leela. And, soon after the Govardhan Leela, there is just one pastime of Nanda Maharaj being kidnapped by Varuna. And then, after that, is the pastime of the gopis.
Where the gopis are called by Krishna when Krishna plays the flute at night. So, there are some very important messages that we can draw by comparing the Brahmin patnis with the gopis. In one sense, Krishna called both of them.
Krishna played the flute and for the gopis, it was an indication that this flute is meant to call them. Krishna has three different kinds of flutes, it is said. With one flute, He calls the gopis.
With another flute, He calls the gopas when they are going out to the forest. With another flute, He calls the cows when they are gone for grazing to call them back. So, depending on the flute, the gopis know this is a call for us.
So, Krishna calls the gopis. Similarly, Krishna did not exactly call the brahminis. He just sent the gopas to tell them that we want food.
But, the brahminis themselves came and gave the food. And not just came to give the food, they came to give the food and give themselves to Krishna. Just as the gopis also came and gave themselves to Krishna.
So, as I said earlier, Krishna called the gopis at night to perform the Rajatila. Whereas, this was noon time, almost like 12 hours difference. When Krishna called the brahminis and Krishna called the gopis.
Or rather, when the brahminis came there. When Krishna called the gopis, Krishna was alone in the forest. And all the gopis came there.
In the Rajatila, Krishna alone expands into many, many forms and he dances with all the gopis. Here, Krishna was there with the gopas. And the brahminis came.
Moreover, when the gopis came and when the brahminis came, both of them had a discussion with Krishna. Both of them, Krishna told go back. In fact, he told the gopis, oh gopis, this is late night, you know, what made you come here? Did you come to see the beautiful sky of Vrindavan? The starlit sky, the forest? Now that you have seen it, please go back now.
The gopis become restless. You called us. It is your flute that has called us.
Why are you speaking like this to us? There, Krishna actually gives instruction of dharma. He says, it is not proper for you to be outside like this. Please go back home.
And he gives similar instruction to the brahminis. Now if we compare, Krishna gives the same instruction to both. The brahminis obey the instruction.
The gopis disobey the instruction. So now, I have a class on, the title of that class is Delightful Disobedience and Outrageous Obedience. Sometime, somebody may disobey and that brings delight.
The Chetan Charandam is the example. Lord Chetan tells Nithyanand Prabhu, stay in Bengal. Don't come here.
You have lot of work to do, to share Krishna Bhakti in Bengal. All the Mayapur Vasis come to Jagannath Puri for the yatra, don't come. But every time, Nithyanand Prabhu comes.
And although Chetan Mahaprabhu tells him, don't come, he comes. Chetan Mahaprabhu is very pleased by that. So there are times when disobedience can be delightful.
Now we should assume that that I disobey you and you should be delighted. No, this is a very high level of devotion. But the principle is that sometimes some words may be spoken out of social convention.
So Krishna speaks out of social convention, oh gopis, you please go back. But the gopis disregard those words. And sometimes there can be outrageous obedience.
Outrageous obedience means that somebody just takes the literal word and keeps doing everything that is told without considering any time, place, circumstance. So, if someone starts doing that, then it can lead to a lot of misunderstanding. Because in everything that is spoken in the spiritual master gives an instruction.
I remember once there was a very senior disciple of Prabhupada. He had some sanyasi and guru. He has difficulty in falling asleep.
So it is told that if he is sleeping, nobody should disturb him. And then one day he had a very important programme and before that he said, I'll take some rest now. And he told the devotees that you wake me up after an hour, then I'll go for the programme.
And then, what happened? The devotees came, they knocked on the door and he was in deep sleep, he didn't wake up. And then one of the devotees in the spiritual master told he is sleeping, he should not be disturbed. So let us go back.
And then the whole programme was there and nobody went for the programme. And after that he got up and he said, why so late? He rushed to the programme but by that time it was very late. He said, why did you wake me up? He said, no no Maharaj, we thought you needed some rest.
He said, I can rest any other time, there is a programme here, I told you. So what happened over there? They had a general instruction, don't disturb the spiritual master when he is taking rest. But in this case, that literal instruction, but what is the time, there is a programme.
We have to wake up for the programme. So sometimes if you take the literal word of the law, literal word and don't look at the context, then it can lead to complete mess. So anyway, here comparing the brahmanis, they obeyed Krishna.
And the gopis disobeyed Krishna. But interestingly, Krishna was pleased with both of them. Krishna was pleased with the gopis when they stayed and performed Rastila with him.
And Krishna was pleased with the brahmanis when they left and went back to their families. Why is that? Because different devotees, Krishna wants different devotees to serve in different ways. That means that when Krishna performs his pastimes, he has different plans for different devotees.
From one sense we could say that the gopis' surrender to Krishna is greater. But from other perspective, if Krishna is pleased, that is the perfection of surrender. So Anand Vrindavan Champu explains that Krishna was also considering the societal factors.
And societal concerns means, he says that actually the brahmanis were already married and the brahmanis were, they were actually brahmanis, they were from the brahman world. Krishna himself was seen to be at that time a Vaishya. So he felt that a union with them would not be appropriate.
And he accepted their bhakti in the heart but he told them to go back home. And this brings us to an important point that surrender can be expressed in two distinct ways. One is giving it all up for Krishna.
And second is doing it all for Krishna. Both are ways of surrendering. Giving it all up for Krishna.
Prabhupada, he had a family, he had a business, he gave it all up for Krishna. But then after that he did not just go to Vrindavan and sit down and do some bhajan. He was, he started the whole Krishna consciousness movement.
And in a sense, managing the Krishna consciousness movement was actually much more demanding than managing the business which he had earlier. But he did it all for Krishna. So surrender can have many different forms.
Surrender is not, it is not, it doesn't have one form. Different devotees can surrender to Krishna in different ways. So the important thing is that each devotee according to their nature, according to their disposition, according to their situation, they offer their heart surrendered to Krishna.
So now the Pandavas in the 7th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, it is described how and the Pandavas hear about how Narasimhadeva came and personally protected Prahlad. They start thinking, Prahlad is so fortunate. And then at that time Narada tells them, actually you are much more fortunate.
Narasimhadeva came once to Prahlad but in the Lord comes and stays in your house. So much so that Lord stays in your house and normally sages go, leave their homes and go to the forest in the hope of getting darshan of the Lord. But in your case the sages from the forest would come to your house to have darshan of the Lord.
So you are so fortunate. So Prahlad Maharaj also says in the Brihad Bhagavatam, he says that actually I did not do any service to Krishna. I only took service.
Krishna had to protect me. Narasimhadeva had to protect me. But the Pandavas did so much service for Krishna.
However the Pandavas feel that Prahlad was threatened so much. There were so many attempts to assassinate him and through it all he remained faithful. So different devotees will serve Krishna in different ways.
Prahlad is just a small 5 year old boy and he is demonstrating the principle of smaranam. Just remember Krishna and Krishna will take care of everything else. In his particular situation as a 5 year old boy living in a family, in a whole community of demons he demonstrates devotion through inner absorption, through inner recollection.
Arjuna is also a great devotee but he is a Kshatriya, he is a trained archer and in this situation he demonstrates devotion by fighting for Krishna. So it is not that one form of devotion is lesser or another form of devotion is greater. Whatever the Lord wants, we do that.
What does the Lord want? The devotees in that particular context do that and the Lord is pleased with all of them and each devotee feels that the other devotee's devotion is greater than mine. The other devotee's devotion is so much. The Lord is reciprocating so wonderfully.
So for a further concluding reflection on this pastime and its application for us, so what happens is that the gopis, the brahmanis they in a sense give up the rituals the yajnas in this context the rituals. They give it up to become spiritual, to surrender to the supreme spiritual reality that is Krishna. But Krishna tells them, go back and do your duties and do them all with remembrance of me.
So the rituals themselves don't need to be given up. The rituals need to be infused with devotion, with Krishna consciousness and then the rituals can also take us to the spiritual level. So the process of bhakti is about raising our consciousness towards Krishna and how that will happen, for whom that will vary from person to person.
The important thing is that we raise our consciousness towards Krishna and there are certain practises which are important which are universal. For example, chanting the holy names, studying scripture, associating with devotees, these are important. But along with that according to time, place, circumstances there can be differences in how bhakti is practised.
That means that whether when we are doing Hare Krishna whether this tune is to be sung or that tune is to be sung. Whether this instrument is to be used or that instrument is to be used. That will vary.
There are different ways in which kirtan is done. There are some kirtans, we often say kirtan is mantra meditation. But there are some kirtans which are soft, soothing, they inspire meditation.
But there are some kirtans which are loud, vibrant, resonant. They may attract a different kind of people. Sometimes some devotees use kirtan not for meditation on Krishna but for channelling their own passion.
That means loud sound, loud noise, huge dancing. That's not wrong. It is also their way of expressing devotion to Krishna.
But some people may like that kirtan and some people have soft, reflective, meditative. There are these variations. In bhakti, there are preferences and there are principles.
Preferences means this is the way I prefer to chant or this is the way I prefer to do bhakti. So somebody may chant sitting, somebody may chant standing, somebody may chant walking. The principle is to chant.
The preference is how we particularly chant. So when we become too ritualistic, we get caught in the externals. This is the way it is to be done.
And any other way from this is wrong, is deviant. So when a preference is made into a principle, then we become fanatical. When a preference is made into a principle, then that becomes fanatical.
So if somebody says, no, this is the way to do things. Fine, this is the way to do things. But this doesn't work in this situation.
It has to be done in a different way in different situations. Now we may say, oh, we have to do loud kirtans so that all the sleeping souls will wake up. Well, okay.
But if the sleeping souls wake up and curse the kirtans, then are we really benefiting? We have to adjust according to the circumstances. In a country where they found that, one city in the western world, where actually the devotees are very cautious about doing kirtans. So what happened was some devotees were going to Harinam and as usual devotees were doing loud kirtans.
And they were doing loud kirtans and there was some keep sound low over here in that particular lane. And the devotees neglected that. And what happened over there, there was like a paediatric hospital over there.
And it was like an ear hospital for children with ear defects. And what happened, because the devotees did such loud kirtans, several small children over there, their tympanic membranes got damaged. Now, what is the need for loud kirtans over there? It created such a terrible PR over there.
And all this. These kids were just in their hospitals, in their beds and suddenly this loud noise comes up. So, it just alienates people.
Kirtan is important to know. We want to glorify Krishna. But we want to glorify Krishna in a way that attracts people towards Krishna.
If by glorifying Krishna we are actually alienating people from Krishna, then what is the use? Prabhupada always had that purpose in mind. Now, kirtan, our movement is the movement of Harinams and kirtan. Our movement is the movement of Yugadharma is Harinams and kirtan.
But when Prabhupada came back with his disciples from America to India and they were doing kirtan in Kolkata. His disciples had gone. When they were doing kirtans in Kolkata, at that time the disciples came back and they said that people were throwing coins at us.
And the disciples didn't know how to take that. And what happened in Bengal, at that time, Gaudiya Vaishnavism did not have a very good name. So, there were many kirtan mandalis who were basically, they were not exactly kirtan mandalis, they were beggars.
And people would throw money at the beggars. Prabhupada said, we don't want to be lumped with them. There are people who are poppers and they do kirtan for getting some alms.
We don't want to do that. So, Prabhupada stopped kirtans. Not permanently, but at that time, for some time, Prabhupada stopped going on Harinam.
Prabhupada, in America, Harinam was the main way to do things. But in India, for Prabhupada at that time, the main way was life membership. He went to different devotees' houses and did talks and made life members.
So, even something as central as Harinam, that may need to be stopped if that is not having the desired effect. Now, we may say that, hey, you know, these people are demoniac. They don't understand what we are doing.
That's fine, they are not understanding what we are doing. We can't assume that they are demoniac. The important thing is, what are we doing? And why are we doing it? Our purpose, if we want to just glorify Krishna, we can glorify him in the temples.
If we are going out and glorifying Krishna, we are doing it so that we can attract people to Krishna. And then, if the way we are doing it is alienating people from Krishna, then better not do that. Better change your way of doing it.
So, similarly, at one time, the devotees in the western world, especially in the Texas area, they had become so aggressive in their book distribution. That means, actually, Prabhupada wanted devotees to be enthusiastic. But Prabhupada also said, distribute the books on the merit.
On the merit. Tell what the book is about and then get people to take the books. But sometimes devotees would misrepresent things so much.
Somehow make the person take a book. And then slowly, it started creating a very negative vibe among people. And Tamal Krishna Maharaj, for some time, in the Texas area, just stopped book distribution.
Because it created such a negative vibe that people were becoming very anti. So, book distribution is important, but everything has a purpose. If that purpose is not being served, then we have to see whether that practise, how do we modify it.
Of course, they do distribution now again. But at that time, that may have to be stopped. So, Prabhupada would sometimes use a strong word like fools and rascals.
Now, Prabhupada himself said, I can do that. He goes, you can't. Prabhupada was the age of the grandfather of most people.
And at that age, especially in the culture where elders are respected, that kind of words can be used. And moreover, when Prabhupada learned his English in the 1920s and 1930s, the word rascal had a very different meaning. Rascal was simply an affectionate form of reproach.
You rascal, what are you doing? It is not a foul word. It is just like that. There is a lecture where Prabhupada says, the pure devotee prays to Krishna, Krishna, all these rascals are suffering in the material world, please give them the intelligence to practise bhakti.
So, there is no condemnation in it at all. It is just a casual reference Prabhupada is using and there is no judgement or condemnation in that. But when we use that, quite often the result is we alienate people.
If we start using fools and rascals, who do you think you are? It is a colony of fools and rascals. Now the important thing is that to be faithful to Prabhupada, we have to use fools and rascals. No, we have to share Krishna's message in a way that is honest for us.
According to what works for our head and heart and according to how it can connect with people. So, if we get too caught in externals, then we may actually miss out on the purpose. We may not only not serve the purpose, we may do disservice to the purpose.
This does not mean the externals are to be rejected. The externals are important because they help in fostering the consciousness. But in some cases, if the external is not helping, then we have to see how best can the purpose be served.
So, from ritual to spiritual, the journey is a journey of consciousness. Because generally, our consciousness is in the outer world, in physical things. So, from the physical, when we start doing some actions, some people say there is no need for rituals.
Why do we need rituals at all? Well, that sort of idea simply reflects the reality that whatever is done at the physical level has effects on our consciousness. Suppose I raise my legs high up, maybe there is a stool over here. I put my legs in the stool.
I sit like this. I am feeling very humble now. You know, if I am putting my legs on a table and I am sitting in a relaxed way, well, I can't feel humble at that time.
There are certain externals which help us to cultivate the internals. When I suppose, say, a couple is arguing, the wife says to the husband, you don't love me. I love you! Now, the words are there, but the mood is not there at all.
So, the external is not important. External is important to the extent the internal is there. So, what happens when the external is meant to be a means to the internal.
But the external is also required. Most often, say, when we go in front of the ladies and bow down, we are in a reverential mood, the external affects the internal. So, one extreme is to just do the external without the internal.
Then that becomes ritualistic. That is undesirable. But if somebody says, I'll just give up the external.
Then if you give up the external, having the internal is going to be very difficult. And then, what will happen? We will have neither the external nor the internal. So, what we need to do is, we do the external so that the internal grows.
And sometimes, if a particular external is not helping in the growth of the internal, then we may have to adapt and do the external in a different way. But the principle is, the internal is to be expressed, the internal is to be cultivated. In the Bhagavatam, in the first canto, it is said that, when Bhishma was in the arrow bed, at that time, when the great sages came, he couldn't offer obeisances to them.
So then, he just inclined his head a little bit at the sages. In the Bhagavatam, pūjāyāmāsa dharmagyam deśakālavi bhāgavet that he was expert. So, he knew dharmagyam.
He knew the essential purpose of dharma. Accordingly, he adjusted the principle. So, when we study the philosophy of Krishna consciousness, then that reminds us of the purpose of Krishna consciousness.
And then we will ensure that the practises will serve the purpose. That whatever external rituals we may be doing, they will serve the purpose of fostering our Krishna consciousness. And if, on certain occasions, we may have to act in a different way, so that we further Krishna consciousness, that is fine.
What is important is that Krishna consciousness be furthered. Now, I am now trying to do some western outrage, and one very striking point is generally when you speak to Indians, Indians have a respect for traditional culture, and when you quote verses, it seems authoritative. But for many post-modern people, if you start quoting some verses, they start thinking, that means you can't think for yourself.
You are just repeating something which you have learnt from someone else. You think for yourself and you tell me what you have understood. So, actually the same point of quoting verses, they work against some people.
There are some Christian websites that are fully Christian in their teachings, but you will not find a single quote of the Bible over there. They are giving the Christian worldview without quoting the Bible. Because, in the post-modern world, what people look for is what have you experienced? What works for you? You tell that to me.
So, if we think that faithfulness means you should be quoting verses. Okay. Somebody may not be quoting verses, but they may be giving the same wisdom without that.
So, we have to see what attracts people and what alienates people. That is actually an art. Especially in outreach, when we are doing, if we just stay stuck with the rituals, then we may not attract people.
If you understand the purpose is to connect people with Krishna, then whatever is required for connecting people with Krishna, we will do that. Sometimes devotees have the slogan, Hi, hello, chhodo, Hare Krishna bolu. That is nice to hear, but, you know, sometimes people may just, they don't know what is Hare Krishna.
Prabhupada, when he would go on his morning walks in America, if he would meet people, he would say, Good morning. Prabhupada says, Good morning. Prabhupada to a western person says, Hare Krishna.
At that time, Hare Krishna was not so well known. So, Prabhupada started to say, Good morning to them. That is what they say, that is what we say.
So, the important thing is that where people are, we should be able to connect with them. When Prabhupada was in Vrindavan, people would say, Radhe Krishna. And Prabhupada would reply, Hare Krishna.
Because, you know, Prabhupada wanted to make a point. They also knew he was Sanyasi, they were also Brajwasis. But Prabhupada wanted them to identify him and follow the Hare Krishna.
So, he would not reply, Radhe Krishna. He would reply, Hare Krishna. They could understand it.
So, the point is not how we greet people. The point is how we connect people. Somebody may not use Hare Krishna at all.
Somebody may say, Hi, Hello. That's fine. That's what is required for connecting with people.
The important thing is, we serve the purpose of connecting with people and connecting people with Krishna. When we have that purpose, then whatever situation we may be in, we will be able to find the appropriate way to act, to elevate our consciousness and elevate others' consciousness. So, I'll summarise.
I spoke about how the Brahman Patnis, they left everything for Krishna and Krishna accepted their devotion, accepted their food offerings and sent them back. So, there are two ways of surrendering to Krishna. One is giving it all up for Krishna.
The second is doing it all for Krishna. Compare the Brahmanis and the Gopis. The Gopis also were told by Krishna to go back but the Gopis stayed on.
So, sometimes disobedience can be delightful when it pleases the person. Sometimes obedience can be irritating, infuriating if it is done in a literalistic sense. So, the important thing is, there is the action, there are the words and there is the bigger purpose that is to be served.
So, we talked about how from ritual to spiritual, the Brahmanas stayed stuck with the rituals. The Brahmanis went from ritual to spiritual but Krishna sent them back to do the ritual with spiritual consciousness. Here I am using the word ritual in a very broad sense to do the material activities, the material responsibilities but they do it in devotion consciousness.
And then I talked about how we in our bhakti practise and bhakti outreach, there are preferences and there are principles. So, the preferences can be according to individual inclination as well as individual situation. But the principles are unchanging.
So, if we make preferences into principles we become fanatical. And there are two extreme attitudes towards the practises of bhakti, which are externals. One is to say, oh the practise is all irrelevant, just the internal matters.
But the internal is fostered by the practise. If we neglect the practise, the internal will no longer be there. The other is to say, only the practises matter.
Then the internal may not be there and that becomes ritualistic. So, if we just stick to externals, sometimes the externals may alienate people. And once people get alienated, whether it is by our strong speaking or by our strange kind of greeting or strange kind of, or our excessive pushiness or whatever, then the important thing is that, are people getting attracted towards Krishna? So, if we know that purpose, then if some external needs to be adjusted, we will be able to do that in a way that helps people come closer to Krishna.
And the ideal situation is we do the external with the appropriate internal. We do the practises of Krishna consciousness with Krishna consciousness. And then we will find that we will rise through the ritual to the spiritual.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? Yes.
Is it possible to be spiritual without rituals? We have to do something to be spiritual. And that something that we do will be a ritual. That is almost the exact same question I was asked in the afternoon class also.
So, you know, some people nowadays there are so many different ways people think that is some people do aromatherapy. And they say, by this aroma you will feel spiritual. Some people apply some oils on their body.
This oil will make you spiritual. So, now, whether they are going to make them spiritual or not, we don't know. Most likely it is just, it makes them mentally maybe feel a little more peaceful.
But the point is they are doing some things. So, some externals need to be done to transform the consciousness internally. Because the soul is here, the mind is here, the body is here.
The soul to become spiritual means to become conscious of ourselves as souls and to become conscious of Krishna who is also a spiritual reality. Presently, our consciousness goes primarily to the external to the body and the physical world. Also goes to the mind, it wanders at the mental level.
And the soul in its self-consciousness being conscious of itself as distinct from the body and the mind that level of consciousness is almost not existent for us right now. So, because our consciousness is directed outwards even when we are to become spiritually conscious, it is by having spiritual stimuli in the external physical world or having spiritual stimuli in the internal mental world. That means, if we want to remember if we want to increase our bhakti towards Krishna, we go to the temple and behold the deities and offer our obeisance to the deities.
Or not able to do that, we do manas puja. In our mind, we envision the form of Krishna and offer our respects to Krishna. So, this, because our mind is so restless to do things at the mental level alone is almost impossible.
That's why, because our consciousness is largely at the physical level, so to spiritualise our consciousness, we need to bring spiritual stimuli into our physical environment. And bringing spiritual stimuli into physical environment and interacting with them, that is the essence of ritual. So, in that sense, ritual is required for being spiritual but it may not be that one particular ritual alone is required.
For different people, different practises may be appropriate. Any other questions? So, it's about the alienation with the people. When we are talking, I'll give one example.
When I'm going out, the consciousness of the person who is making the food is coming to the food and we should prefer to eat only in the temple or in the food by ourselves or in the restaurant. So, when I'm going out with my friends, I prefer not to eat the food out because one thing is they are using the same thing for the wedding and all that. But they will not understand this.
At that point of time, how to deal with this situation? Because they are not able to understand my part. Because they are not that much from the temple, they are not principles. How to deal with that situation? So, if we are with friends and they are all eating together and if you refuse to eat, that alienates them and if you explain that your consciousness goes into the food, they don't understand that.
It also makes us apart. Correct. I understand the question.
It also makes the odd person out over there. We have to, in such situations, find out a way that works for us. So, somebody would often say that I have some diet requirements and I'm taking some diet and following some diet plan.
That's not false. We are following a diet plan. It is not a medical diet plan.
It is a spiritual diet plan. So, we have to find out a way to explain things in a way that makes sense to people. Bhaktivedanta Maharaj wrote a whole article in one of his books on on sense control.
Now, sense control is not at all attractive topic for people. So, that article was titled Harnessing Sexual Energy for World Peace. And then, it is not just a title.
He explained how infatuation with some person was the cause of many wars throughout history and how this could be avoided by that. Then he went as a segue, as a way to get to the topic of how lust makes people do destructive things. So, we have to learn how to best present things in a way that makes sense to people.
So, telling that we are following a diet plan, that's the best way to do it. And beyond that, if we take our own food or if we know them well, what happens in general society? People, especially in today's post-modern world, unless we impose what we are doing on others, people don't bother us so much. The problem comes when we start imposing, this is wrong, we should not do it.
Then it becomes a problem. See, vegan is very cool. It's very much widespread.
So, especially in the western world, it is very much widespread. To be a vegan is considered very trendy. In India still, to become non-vegetarian is considered to be cool.
You are old-fashioned, you are vegetarian. So, it's a cycle going on. But the point is that if somebody is a vegan, nobody objects to that.
Basically, there are three broad ways in which we could present what we are doing. I call that as prescriptive, normative and descriptive. Prescriptive means, this is what you should do, this is what you should not do.
That is a surefire way to alienate people. Who are you to tell me to do this? Normative means, this is the norm, this is right and this is wrong. And that also people don't like.
What authority are you saying? This is right, this is wrong. Descriptive means, this is what I do and this is why I do it. So, if you present our practises in a descriptive way, then people don't really encroach.
Okay, we just tell something and this is why I do this. Give some explanation which makes sense to them. And leave it at that.
Don't make them feel bad that they are different from you. They won't make you feel bad that you are different from them. Our culture nowadays is, in many ways individualistic.
And people are allowed room for individual expression. But the idea is that, I will allow you your room, but you give me your room. You give me my room.
Don't impose on me. So, if we just learn that, the way of proper presentation, in a way that makes sense to people and we do it in a non-imposing way. It's a descriptive way.
Instead of saying that non-vegetarian food has so many health consequences. Oh, vegan food has so many health benefits. The same point, but you are presenting in a different way.
We don't make them feel challenged or feel bad. Just tell them what we are doing. And that attracts people.
So, in general, that is the descriptive way of doing things is what works in today's world. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? So, thank you very much.
I'll stop here. Prabhupada Ki Jai. Gaur Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jai.
Jai Gaur Premanand.