Gita 12.01 Pantheism and impersonalism both conceive of the Absolute as diffused

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thank you Bhagavad Gita 12.1 a subject of great controversy among spiritualists is asking quote two principle categories of spiritualists evam satata yuktaye bhaktas tuamparipasate those who are bhaktas, those who are devotees satata yuktaye those who are always engaged in your bhakti bhaktasthvam paripasam, they worship you, ye chaakya aksharamauvyaktam and then there are those who are attracted to the unmanifest, the infallible tesham ke yogavittamah so on one side Arjuna is asking about the personalists on the other side he is asking about the impersonalists tesham ke yogavittamah, among them who are better yogavittamah means who are better situated in yoga, who are more excellent in yoga yoga means connection so those who are better connected now actually better connected a similar statement Arjuna Krishna has already made in 6th chapter I will discuss that later either in this or the next verse but lets look at the context the 11th chapter is the mirata rupa darshan and that chapter is now over and the 12th chapter is beginning now and in this 12th chapter the connection broadly is not so much specific in terms of linkages between 11th and 12th it is more in terms of themes that are being explored so Krishna is told in 9.15 about three kinds of people who approach him jnana, yajna, chaapya yajanto mamupasate ekatvena pruthakvena bahudhavishvato mukham so he says that he is talking about in 10.11 and 12 he talked about those who those who are pure devotees those who are offenders those who consider his form to be mundane and 13.14 talks about the pure devotees so there are two extremes those who approach Krishna with great devotion and those who approach Krishna as a manifestation of illusion to go beyond and in between are three categories of people and there he says ekatvena pruthakvena bahudhavishvato mukham so ekatvena is those who are those who conceive of themselves as one with God pruthakvena bahudha is the devi-god worshippers and vishvato mukham is referring to the worship of the universal form so Krishna has talked about pruthakvena bahudha immediately after that from the 16th verse onwards till the till the 27th verse when he compares the worship of the devatas with his own devotional service then the vishvarupa upasana he has talked about in the 11th chapter and now in the 12th chapter Arjuna is asking him out what is the status of those who conceive of themselves as one with God ekatvena after displaying the magnificent universal form Krishna has concluded 11.55 with a declaration that actually it is with bhakti that one can attain him matkarmakron matparmo matbhaktasangavarjitaha nirvairah sarvabhuteshu yah samameti paandava so who will attain me oh paandava those who are matbhakta my devotees will attain me and they have to cultivate detachment work for him all that is there but essentially Krishna is talking about his devotees so vishvarupa aradhana is not considered to be the ultimate perfection it is devotion to Krishna that is considered to be higher so in a sense pantheism and impersonalism are similar pantheism is the idea that everything is God that means that God is distributed, diffused in the totality of nature and one way of conceiving that could be the universal form worship although the Bhagavata itself doesn't talk about that kind of worship because the Bhagavata is clear that the universal form is not a not an independently existing absolute truth rather the universal form is something which is manifested by the will of Krishna and it becomes unmanifested by the will of Krishna so the universal form is in that sense subordinate to Krishna and now the question comes up but the idea is the universal form manifests how the absolute is pervading the universe, is spread over the universe impersonalism also has a similar idea that God is God doesn't have a personal manifestation but rather he has an impersonal manifestation which is diffused in all of the spiritual reality so in that sense pantheism and impersonalism have the same idea of distribution or diffusion of the existence of God in pantheism it's more of God is manifested through nature in this world whereas impersonalism has the idea that God is manifested beyond this world as the all pervading Brahman of course in some understandings even the material nature is considered to be a manifestation of some reflected or some kind of manifestation of the Brahman so God is diffused through this world also so we could say impersonalism and pantheism are similar conceptions of God where he is diffused or distributed and they can refer to different domains matter and spirit of the distribution of the absolute or we could say that if we consider matter as which is something which is like a reflection of the spirit as is conceived of in some schools of impersonalism then we have impersonalism as the big set and pantheism as the set within that but without getting too much into technicalities and splitting hairs on that the point is that Arjuna is asking that Krishna just as you said that you are it is you who are to be attained by the worship of by the practice of bhakti not something beyond you so then similarly what about the impersonalists who think that there is something beyond you what is their status? among these two categories of people who is the one who is more closely united with you this question reveals that Arjuna himself is a fairly sophisticated listener that means he is also philosophically savvy if someone is not philosophically savvy they can't answer questions of this caliber or what to speak of answering questions they cannot even raise questions of this caliber in some cases in 3rd chapter say Arjuna asks a question that is not at all easy to understand for example 3rd chapter when he asks if you think better than karma buddhi is greater than karma why are you engaging me in ghor karma so Arjuna is thinking of in terms of conventional hierarchy that is karma kanda, karma yoga and bhakti yoga so here Arjuna wants to rise to the level of bhakti yoga by hearing the Gita's wisdom but then the voice of passion is also coming inside him and more importantly Arjuna represents all of us so we have this suggestive voice inside us it sometimes comes with good suggestions and quite often with fairly bad suggestions so to deal with it how do we go ahead Arjuna will ask this question to recognize in this question what Arjuna is asking is very clear two categories the devotees are in one category and those who are worshippers of him personally are in the other category and Krishna will answer this question specifically in text 2 but the answer goes on till text 7 and we will see that in our future talks thank you.