Gita for CEO 2 – Why don’t people listen to me – Chaitanya Charan

Transcript

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Hare Krishna, everyone. Welcome. A big Hari Bol to Chaitanya Charan Prabhu for visiting our house for the first time.
Hare Krishna. Welcome. We are extremely fortunate to have the presence of His Grace Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
Personally, I have a very, very high regard for him. I mean, I personally like to chew on Bhagavad Gita a lot. And he is a role model for me.
And whatever he writes, whatever he speaks, whenever I come in touch with the writings as well as his lectures, I always find so many wonderful points to deliberate on and apply in my own life. Now, Prabhu had been very active, particularly among the youth and the corporate world. He had been giving his association to some of the leading universities, like MIT, Princeton, Harvard, to name a few.
And likewise, Prabhu is very well-known for writing prolifically. He has written over 25 books. And for me, actually, Prabhu is someone who not only has digested these scriptures himself, but has an amazing ability to express the teachings in a manner that actually stays with us.
Like, for example, one of the quotes from his book, Gita for the CEO, that actually stayed with me was that he wrote that the root of consciousness is the soul. And likewise, the mind is the route of consciousness. I mean, these are the kind of words that only can come from Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
So I see him as more like the leader of leaders. There are so many leaders within ISKCON. And whenever we feel inspired by wonderful teachings of the Bhagavad Gita that may come up from time to time, oftentimes when the words are put in such a way that it just touches the heart, many a times, it’s probably coming from Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
So thank you so much, Prabhu, for coming here. And today is in continuation with the Gita for the CEO series. The first seminar had taken place yesterday, which was on leaders and misleaders, where Prabhu very nicely established the importance of carrying the right disposition while having the position of a leader.
And Prabhu pointed out how we all need to look into our life and see how that leadership can come at the level of the self, at an informal level or at the potential level. And Prabhu is going to build on that idea, now getting into the topic of how to actually make our speech powerful in creating the impact. So without any further ado, let’s welcome Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
So we’re giving one copy. Maybe one of you can share one copy of the book. We’ll read some things from it.
I’ll tell you. Go to page 120. I’m also displaying it over here.
Namaste Saraswati Devi Gauravani Pracharine Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Pashchatya Desha Tarine Vancha Kalpataru Bhyascha Krupasindhu Bhyevacha Patitanam Pavanebhyo Vaishnavebhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna Thank you very much for coming today. So today I’ll be discussing on a very universal concern that we all have, whether we are leaders or not. That is, why don’t people listen to me? As parents we were very… Am I audible? I think the volume is very low.
Hare Krishna Can you increase the volume? Is it better now? I don’t see much difference. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Thank you. Am I audible now? Am I comfortably audible to everyone? Am I also comfortably ignorable for those who want to ignore? The volume in a class should not be so high that if people want to ignore, they should be able to comfortably ignore also.
So the topic I’ll be discussing is that why don’t people listen to me? This is a predicament we all face. It may not be a leadership predicament alone. It could be just a human predicament.
It could be in a relationship, at home, at workplace. Why don’t people listen to me? I don’t know if you had this question. Is there anyone who has not had this question? We all face it.
Why don’t people listen to me? So broadly, I’ll discuss this based on 3.26 in the Bhagavad Gita. So this is, apart from the Gita for the CEO, I’ve written one more new book. This is Prayers Inspired by the Bhagavad Gita.
Have you opened this to page 120? So in this, we have a deity of Krishna picture. And then we have the verse. And then a one-line summary of the theme that I’m going to address from this particular verse.
And then we have the poetic. I rendered the Gita’s verse in a poetic translation. So you can repeat with me.
Help me to learn, my dear Lord, how to help others to learn. So this is the mood of a person who is humble, at the same time, purposeful in wanting to share. Not that people are foolish, people are responsible, people are uncaring.
That’s why they’re not learning. Help me to learn how to help others to learn. So let us recite this verse.
na buddhi-bhedam janaye ajnanam karma-sanginam joshayet sarva-karmani vidvanyukta-samacharan Once more, let’s recite it. na buddhi-bhedam janaye ajnanam karma-sanginam joshayet sarva-karmani vidvanyukta-samacharan One last time, all of us together now. na buddhi-bhedam janaye ajnanam karma-sanginam joshayet sarva-karmani vidvanyukta-samacharan The wise should not disturb the mind of those to worldly work inclined.
Let them act while you gently show the path to truth that they may know. The path to truth that they may know. So here Krishna is instructing us in how to instruct others.
And I’ll depict this verse and then we’ll read something from the prayer and move forward. Basically, there are two levels of people. Krishna is talking about somebody who is ignorant.
Rather, somebody who is wise and who’s at one level. And somebody who is unwise or ignorant who’s at the other level. Broadly, there are some people who are wise and there are some people who are otherwise.
So now, also Krishna is saying here there are people who are, we may be connected, we may be engaged, we may be, yuktaha Krishna uses the word. Connected means connected to the bigger picture, ultimately connected to the biggest picture is where we see Krishna, we connect with Krishna. So if we are working in a school, then we’re connected with the purpose of the school.
Some people, some students come to school, they’re not interested in studying at all. They’re coming to have fun. Maybe they’re coming to date someone.
Maybe they’re coming to just be a nuisance, be a bully. So people there are ignorant and there are people who are disconnected. Now interesting Krishna used the word attached over here.
So normally yukthaha, the opposite would be a yukthaha. Connected and disconnected. But Krishna used the word yukthaha and sakthaha.
Sakthaha is attached. So why are people disconnected? They’re disconnected because they’re attached to something else. Like say now you have come here, you are interested in learning the Gita.
But if you have some small children, the small children may make some noise because you know, they are not at the level where they can understand. So they’re disconnected, but they’re disconnected because say they’re attached to playing, they’re attached to having fun. So in that way, there are two levels of people.
So if say we are at this level. And there is someone at this level. So how do we get them to come to where we are? That is the question.
Every person who has any leadership role, any responsible role as a parent, as a guide, as a trainer, as a manager, they all need to elevate people from one level to a higher level. Now, how do we do that? Is this camera showing both of these things? Okay, good. So now sometimes we try to elevate people and people go down.
So we try to lift them up. They don’t just go down, they go further down. And that is highly counterproductive.
So go further down means there are two ways. They can become so discouraged that I cannot do this. They become discouraged and quit and they go away from even trying to be at a basic level.
Or they may become averse to us. They may become hostile to us. You pushed me too much.
And therefore, I just not connect with you at all. So sometimes it happens that when we try to guide and train someone, that person ends up becoming our enemy. So what we want to do is we want to motivate people to rise.
This is what we want to do. This is what we don’t want to do. How to motivate people and how to not alienate people.
So Krishna is telling that Agyanam Karma Sanginam. So those are people who are over here. Sanginam, they are attached.
And then Vidwan and Yuktaha. So we are at that other level. So he says don’t disturb people.
Disturb means what he’s saying is there could be two ways in which you could do this. If we are here and that person is, we are here and that person is here. Now we may want them to take a super fast way.
Rapidly come up. But they may not be ready for that. And then if they don’t want to come, we just get out of here.
But instead, we may want to create a pathway which will lead to gradual elevation. Now there could be pathways of different inclinations that could work for different people. Now some pathways may require a very long time.
And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. They may just not be ready to rise as fast as we want them to rise. So if we could say this is the best, but it is not possible.
All of these are also acceptable. What Krishna says we should not do is we should not send people in the opposite direction. And certainly not in the rapidly opposite direction.
Sometimes it happens, especially in parenting parents, put some values on their children and they force those values. And then the children come into teenage or they become young adults. Then they go again, they give up all those values, not because they dislike the values, but because they dislike the way those values are imposed on them.
And then they go away from their parents, they go away from the values. That is unhealthy. So how do we get people to listen to us? That is the topic we’ll be discussing today.
So let’s go back to the book. I would like different devotees to read, participants to read one or two paragraphs from here. We have a second mic, is it working by any chance? You can start, it will take some time.
Can I read? My dear Lord, you emphasise that good intention is not a substitute for good intelligence. Even when I want to do good for others and guide them toward a higher level of consciousness, so that they can ultimately connect with you. I need to carefully consider whether such instruction might be disruptive for them, even to the point of being destructive.
Yes. So good intention is not a substitute for good intelligence. Now, what is the difference between intention and intelligence? Yes.
That’s brilliant. Thank you. Well done.
Good. So maybe say the father is a big weightbuilder, weightlifter, a big bodybuilder and weightlifter. And the father wanted their kid to lift weights.
I want you to also become a champion weightlifter. But then if the kid is a very small and barely 40 kg weight. And the father puts a 25 kg weight on that child.
Now, I wanted you to become a good bodybuilder and weightlifter. But it’s not going to work. Instead of the kid lifting the weight, the kid will become a weight to be lifted.
Isn’t it? The kid will get injured. So good intention is not a substitute for good intelligence. Many times when we tell others, please do this, this is good for you.
Somehow people don’t seem to understand. So that intelligence developing, how to communicate effectively, that is what we’ll try to discuss today. So sometimes, as I said, if we are not careful, it can be disruptive or destructive for others.
The child may get injured despite the best intentions of the parent. So I’ll talk about three points, how things work. The arc of good communication.
When you want to communicate effectively, when people are not listening to us and we want to get them to listen to us, what are the factors that we need to consider? So we’ll discuss them one by one. A is our ability. Now, do I, have I developed the ability to communicate effectively? Is there something wrong in my communication? This is generally what happens when things don’t work.
Depending on our particular psychology, we either blame the other person or we blame ourselves. I am not good enough. This person is a terrible person.
Both ways it could work. So generally, we all have our relationship with others. But we have our relationship with ourselves.
What do I mean? Our relationship with ourselves, it is how we see ourselves. Now, there are two extremes in this relationship with ourselves. One side is ego, where we overestimate our ability.
And when we have ego, we blame others. This person is a terrible person. Like a parent may say, no, my child is, parents may not say publicly like that, but other parents may say that, no, my child is a terrible child.
Never listens to me. On the other hand, some parents may have insecurity. Where if their child does something bad, they say, I am a terrible parent.
Which could be a reality. Well, terrible is a terrible word to use generally for such a situation. But the idea is when we have insecurity, we beat ourselves up.
I am a terrible person. Now the reality could be either of these or it could be most likely somewhere in between. So now, humility is to start with checking whether the problem is with me.
The problem could be with others also, but let’s begin with us. And that’s what is most rectifiable for us easily. So when people don’t listen to us, is it that I lack the ability? Now, when I say I lack the ability, what does ability mean in this context? It means sometimes some people who are leaders are said to have something called a charisma.
That charisma is just like that some people seem to have mystical pull. That when they come into a room, everybody pays attention to them. That whenever they say something, everybody listens.
And yes, charisma can have a mystical aspect to it. But there is also a rational aspect to charisma. Charisma is where you represent what I want to be or what I admire.
So if somebody embodies something that we admire, then we naturally feel that I want to be like this person. So that’s why if I don’t want to be like that person, then I will feel no charisma. And that’s why you will see in different spiritual groups also, like each spiritual group will have its own leaders and the followers of that group will think this is the greatest person in the world.
And people outside that group will say, you know, you people, why are you just, are you intelligence numbed cultists? What’s so great about this person? So what is happening is if a person has accepted that value system, then within that value system, that particular leader is a great person. But somebody is not accepted the value system, like say all people who are atheists, they will say religious people who worship a particular leader or follow a particular leader, you are just that person is a cult leader and you are followers. You are blind followers.
Now religious people will say the same thing about atheists. Atheists also have their leaders. Now you are just mind numbed or indoctrinated.
Thereby atheism, any ideology can indoctrinate. So let’s not get into that aspect of charisma right now because that is quite polarising. Let’s focus on the rational aspect.
So Krishna talks about discipline of speech in 1715 in the Bhagavad Gita. And there he says effective speech. So ability means how can I make my speech more effective.
So for this, he says that good speech, effective speech has to have two characteristics. Now he actually used four characteristics. I put them into two categories.
One is that the speech needs to be sensitive and it needs to be sensible. So Krishna says the first characteristic of speech should be non-agitating. Anudvega Karam.
Now why non-agitating? Because the world is already in agitating place. And in the world, communication, if you make it even more agitating, it just increases the stress of everyone. So don’t be sarcastic.
Don’t be unnecessarily critical. But then that is actually a baseline. Our speech should be much more than that.
It needs to be Priyam. It needs to be pleasing. Pleasing can mean encouraging, uplifting.
So we could say if it’s like a funnel, the entry into the funnel is our speech should be non-agitating. And beyond that, it needs to be pleasing. So the sensitive part addresses our emotional side, our heart side or the feeling side.
And it’s important people need to feel inspired by what they hear. So non-agitating is like the baseline level. If somebody invites us for food at their place, and then after we take food, how was the food? It was edible.
Now, edible is not a high compliment, isn’t it? Actually, it’s such a low compliment that it’s an insult. Of course the food has to be edible. What do you mean? So, we could say non-agitating is not a very high compliment.
But quite often our speech may miss that mark also. So, now having said that, being sensitive is only one part of it. We also need to be sensible.
And Krishna says sensible means there are two parts of it. One is, be truthful. Satyam.
That just in the name of being sensitive, in the name of being non-agitating, don’t pamper and speak lies. So, there’s a difference between appreciating and flattering. When we are flattering someone, we may, we often speak something which is not true at all.
Now, flattery starts with a complete untruth. Now, when we are appreciating, when we are glorifying, there also we may speak a little bit more than what actually it is. That is okay.
That is for encouragement. So, while appreciating, flattering is basically concocting. There is nothing and we are concocting for the sake of our own agenda.
We want that person to do something for us. So, we concoct. That’s not healthy.
Now, when we are appreciating, we may, there might be a little bit of exaggerating. A child may make a painting. A child may make a drawing.
This is beautiful. Now, the painting might just be barely good. But we say beautiful, we want to encourage the child.
That’s okay. We are not going to say this is going to win an award. So, that would be falsity.
But, that’s okay. So, now the thing is speech needs to be also grounded in truth. Now, at the same time, truthful is not enough.
Along with that, Krishna says it should be hitam. We have to see which truth is actually helpful. There are many truths that can be spoken.
But again, it’s the funnel. What truth is helpful? So, for example, say if a couple is married for 30 years and then the husband says to his wife that on our 30th anniversary, I’m going to give you a gift, a special gift that I’ve been preparing for the last 30 years. Really, what is it? In the last 30 years of our marriage, whatever faults I have observed in you, I will tell you all those faults today.
By learning these faults, you can improve and you can become a better person. No, that will probably is last marriage anniversary. So, the idea is there are many truths that can be spoken.
But we have to see which truths are helpful for the person. And this is not sentimental. This is rational.
If our child is, if you have a small toddler who’s learning to speak a language, the child may speak one sentence, gets the sentence right, but three words are pronounced wrong and one is pronounced right. One word is pronounced right. But overall, we get the sentence.
Now, you could encourage, oh, this word you spoke very nicely. Now, we discuss, this was wrong, this was wrong, this was wrong. You start speaking like that, the child will become so discouraged he will not speak only afterwards.
So, isn’t it? Now, it will be true. But which truths are actually helpful? So, when we talk about our ability of speaking, we need to see whether I am being sensible and I am being sensitive. So, to that extent, so, the sensible part addresses our rational side.
And a sensitive part addresses others’ emotional side. And so, people, depending on the context, sometimes they need to be told, okay, these are the steps you need to take to improve. So, when, let’s elaborate on this a little bit more.
So, for our speech to be effective, what is required is that we be able to appeal to their head and their heart. Now, when we appeal to their heart, sensitive speech, it actually gives encouragement. Yes, you can do it, you should do it, you will be able to do it.
So, this is the sensitive side of the speech. Now, the sensible side of the speech, which is the rational side, what it does is, it gives enlightenment. In other words, enlightenment can be used in a big philosophical context also.
But here, I am using enlightenment in terms of okay, know what to do. So, it’s about, say, a child has learned to cycle and the child is falling down repeatedly. I don’t worry, you will fall, get injured, but you will learn.
But if the child is falling down because when they are turning, they are just pressing the pedal on one side very heavily. And the child cycles very imbalanced. Yeah, you can do it.
Yeah, I know I can do it, but tell me what I need to do to do it. Isn’t it? Sometimes some people need enlightenment. Some people need encouragement.
Somebody is learning software coding and they are not able to get the coding, you can do it. Yeah, I know I can do it, but what is wrong over here, tell me that right now. Isn’t it? Sometimes encouragement is required, sometimes enlightenment is required.
So, when we talk about our ability, there is nothing mystical about speech. That if our speech is not being effective, let’s see what is it that is lacking. Is it that the rational content is deficient? Is it the emotional content that is deficient? Whatever it is, we need to work on that.
So, speech has great power to transform and to the extent we understand this, to that extent, it will be very helpful for us. Some of you have noticed that I need crutches for walking. So, when I was one, I got polio.
I had been taken to a hospital, clinic by my mother to get the polio vaccine, but unfortunately, the fridge in which they had kept the vaccine had lost its power supply the previous night. Because of that, the temperature increased and the germs in the vaccine multiplied. And neither the attendant nor the physician noticed that.
They gave me the vaccine and instead of preventing polio, it ended up causing polio. I don’t remember this, I was just about one and I was learning to walk, I fell down. I couldn’t walk normally thereafter.
But, what I remember is, at least my first clear memory was two and a half or three or something like that. And a distant relative had come to our home and she was consoling my mother saying, it’s so sad, your son got polio. And I remember my mother’s voice being calm, clear, confident.
She said, whatever he lacks physically, God will provide him intellectually. I don’t know why she said that. Somehow she said that and she didn’t even say that to me.
She said it to someone else but it stayed with me. Not the God part initially, the intellectual part stayed with me. The God part came later.
But the point is that those words had a big impact on me. Okay, I lack physical ability but yes, when I started reading, I started studying, I noticed that I could read fast, I could remember well. So, that stayed with me.
So, at that particular point, it was encouragement but it was also enlightenment. Okay, you have this ability, focus on this ability. So, words can have a great impact and learning to tap the power of words is something which each one of us can do more and more.
So, first part is the ability. Now, what was the acronym I was going to discuss? ARC. Yes, A-R-C.
Now, second is responsibility. Here, I am talking about the other person and I am specifically using the word responsibility. So, generally speaking, if somebody doesn’t listen to us, we tend to say that this person, this person just doesn’t listen to me, this person is being difficult, this person is becoming, is troublesome, is this person a nuisance.
So, now, it is possible that now when people don’t listen, there are, if as parents our children don’t listen to us, if as a team leader our subordinates don’t listen to us, there are two possibilities. One is they are being difficult. Now, why are they being difficult? You can look at that.
But the other possibility is they are in difficulty. It’s not that they are being difficult, that they are in difficulty. So, that means, say, if we want someone to do something and that person just doesn’t have the ability to do it.
So, that’s why responsibility. Now, I’ll talk about responsibility at three different levels. And then, we’ll talk about each of these in a different approach.
So, first is that they just don’t understand what we are saying. There is no understanding, there is no comprehension. So, there is that at a level of cognition, they just don’t understand.
So, what is lack? No ability means there is no understanding, no comprehension. So, for example, if you have a three-year-old kid or two-and-a-half-year-old kid or whatever and you tell them, why is your room so unclean? Go and yell at the child. Now, the kid may want to please you, please the mother or please the father.
But, why do you keep your room so unclean? Keep your room tidy. Now, the child may not understand what tidy means. Isn’t it? And the mother says, okay, you take this shoe up and keep this over here.
And the mother shows one shoe, keep one shoe. You take the other shoe and keep it there. And the kid does that and kid looks at the mother.
The mother smiles and the kid also comes here. Okay, now, take the pillow and keep it here. So, okay, the child does that.
Oh, yeah, looks at the mother. Mother smiles. Okay, yes.
And then when all the things are kept in their proper place, child looks at the mother. Mother gives a big smile. Oh, yes.
So, then what happens is sometimes that child, that concept, keep your room clean. Keep your room tidy. That concept itself may not be understandable.
So, many times when we speak, we come from a particular frame and we may presume that people understand certain level of things. But with respect to small child, it’s easy to understand why they don’t understand. But it can happen with adults also.
This especially happens with respect to value judgments. Value judgments means how can you be so insensitive? Let me tell someone. Say, if somebody is in customer service and we are in charge over there and somebody speaks in such a way that customer gets very upset.
You are such an insensitive person. How could you speak like that? What did I do wrong? I just spoke in normal way. Now, maybe they come from a particular culture where particular kind of speaking is normal.
In other culture, it might not be normal. So, sometimes we need to help people understand what is it that they are not doing. They think that what they are not doing right.
So, understanding, you can use the word comprehension for it. They may just not comprehend what is going wrong. Now, when I talk about value judgments, somebody says, how can you be so impolite? Well, what is impolite? I didn’t think of it as impolite.
So, especially when we live in a multicultural society, now, different people just function in different ways and one kind of behaviour may be considered particularly. Like say, last 10 years, I was spending a lot of time with, in America. Almost 6 months I spent here.
So, I’m also trying to do Western outreach here to Westerners. So, one of the things that many Americans feel about Indians, Indians are not straightforward. Like in India, Americans are saying when an Indian says yes, it means maybe, whereas maybe it means no.
And if an Indian says no, he says, I understand, this is no Indian. That way, they basically become American. It will be straightforward.
So, if there is a particular task told and if you’re not able to do it, say that, you know, we need more time or we need these resources. But, the way the Indian culture is often, we don’t say no directly to a person. If somebody asks, so, if they say yes, so, after the yes, what comes is very important.
Yes is not very important. So, the thing is that you should be straightforward. Now, sometimes what happens is that straightforward they will say, you’d be honest.
Now, calling somebody dishonest is a big insult. Now, they’re not being dishonest, they’re just being diplomatic. That’s just the way they have been trained.
Now, Indians may feel Americans are very rude. Now, there’s this, how can you be so blunt? Don’t you, each of, there are different ways. I’m just giving you a very generalisation over here.
But, especially when we do value judgments of people. You know, sometimes it may just be that they don’t understand that this is the way to function. So, just instead of labelling the person as they’re being difficult, understand that they are in difficulty.
That, let me just not understand. Now, then the second possibility is that they don’t have interest. Now, that means, yeah, I know this is how I should do it, but I’m just not interested in doing this.
It’s not very important for me. I’m not ready to. So, sometimes we have put a lot of effort in training someone, in guiding someone and that person doesn’t follow up at all.
That person doesn’t do anything at all. So, what happens by that is, if they don’t have the interest, then that does not necessarily make them a bad person. But then, it’s our communication not working.
Either we have to create interest in them. So, or, we have to find out somebody who is interested. Now, ideally speaking, somebody who is a good teacher should be able to make any subject interested.
But, everybody has some natural interests. If somebody’s natural interest is music, and we want to get them interested in, in, say, biology, then we can try to get them interested. Maybe you have to tell them, this subject is going to help you in this, this, this, this.
So, interest can often be cultivated at the level of intelligence. What is the benefit of doing this? But, if people are not listening to us, it’s maybe they don’t have the interest. So, either we have to either get, make them interested.
There are two ways. Make them interested or find someone who is interested. Now, which will work? It depends.
A parent may have a business and the parent may want the child to take up the business. A child comes to, comes to office but is doing on social media, social media, other things. Why are you not being responsible? This is, this business is your dream, it’s not my dream.
So, either the child has to be, child has to be made interested or maybe the child, okay, you do some, what you are interested in and we have to get, get someone interested, find someone interested. So, we can try to create interest but it’s not that if somebody is not interested, does not mean that they are, are being a difficult person. It’s just not their interest.
The third possibility is that they just don’t have the talent. So, here I use the acronym CHIT for explaining this. We need to be aware of what is happening with other, CHIT is consciousness.
We need to be aware of what is happening with the other person. So, certain, certain roles require certain talents. So, if say the parents are into engineering and they want the child to become an engineer but the child is really has no, no ability for maths itself.
Then, they have no, they have no talent in maths. It’s going to be difficult, maybe they have talent somewhere else. So, sometimes when people don’t listen to us, it’s because they don’t have that particular talent.
Now, if you are doing, communicating spiritual values is that it’s not so much a matter of talent, it’s a matter of interest. Now, they may not have particular talents even in the spiritual path. But the idea is, if people are not listening to us, we need to evaluate.
That does not mean, so that’s why I use the word responsibility. Do they have the ability to respond? First of all, do they understand? Do they have the interest? And even if they have the understanding, okay, this is how it is to be done. They have the interest.
Okay, I would like to learn this. But, some people just may not have particular talents. And then, at that time, that does not make them a bad person.
So, communication, why don’t people listen to me? It is possible that they don’t have that responsibility. Now, can the talent be developed? Sometimes it’s possible by training that it can be developed. So, by training, the talent can be developed.
But then, it will require adequate training. And what will be adequate amount of training can vary from person to person. So, if you consider, Drona, when he was training the Pandavas, he noticed that Arjuna had a great talent for archery.
He had interest in learning also. Now, archery was a basic skill that all warriors needed to learn. Yudhishthira also learned archery.
Bhima also learned archery. Bhima was also good at archery. But, Arjuna was great.
Now, Drona did not force everyone to become as good as Arjuna. That was not possible. He saw that Bhima had physical strength and he encouraged him to, he also had interest in mace fighting.
He encouraged him to excel in that. So, we cannot shape people into our mould. We have to discover what mould people have and then manifest that.
It’s like, you know, training others, there are different metaphors that can be used. Training others or guiding others, you know, it is not like painting. It is like sculpting.
Now, can anyone say what is the difference between painting and sculpting? Ok, 3D and 2D. Ok. Let’s consider traditional painting.
Ok, 3D and 2D. Anything else? Painting we can erase. Sculpting we can’t erase.
Ok. I am being quite creative in pointing out differences. Good point.
Anything else? Sculpting is more like transparent than painting. Sculpting is also art, isn’t it? You are in the right track but you just complete what you are saying. Adding things.
Ok. That’s a creative way of putting it. Nice.
So, basically, painting, there is, in one sense, it’s fully the artist’s imagination. You can paint anything that you want. Sculpting, you already have the stone.
You already have the raw material. We cannot change the raw material. If you have got marble, now we cannot make a Shahabadi stone sculpture with it.
You already have marble. So, training is like, painting means everything can come from the vision and the imagination of the painter. Of course, there are limitations that we are using oil paints, what kind of canvas we are using.
But largely, what we paint is entirely a product of the vision of the painter. But a sculptor has a starting point. And it is from that starting point we move forward.
So, in many ways, parenting is like sculpting. It is not like painting. Or, painting, we often use the word, like, what is that, clay work.
Like, clay has no shape at all. Whatever shape the potter wants to give, they can give to that. So, often the metaphors of children are like, clay.
The parents shape the children. It is not that simple. No, children come with karma from the past, they come with certain interests from the past.
We need to discover and develop those. So, it is like sculpting. Sometimes the person may just not have the responsibility.
So, that is something which we need to consider also, why people do not listen to us. So, and the Bhagavata says that, there is Varna. Everybody has their Varna.
many people say, this is Abhijat, they are born with the Varna. So, now, this does not mean the caste system by birth. They are two very different things.
That we get our Varna from birth. That is true. But, that our Varna will be the Varna of the family in which we are born.
That is not true. So, when we say Varna, Varna is Brahman, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudra. Varna is by birth.
Now, is it right or is it wrong? Well, it depends on Varna by birth. What do we mean? That, yes, in the sense that, it is, it comes by our past karma. Comes by our past life’s karma.
By past karma means our past life’s karma. So, each of us have certain natural interests that we will have based on our past life. That is true.
But, no, in the sense that, it is same as the Varna of the family in which we are born. Varna of our birth family. Just because somebody is born in a Brahmana family does not mean that they are naturally Brahmana.
Somebody is born in a warrior family or a business family does not mean that naturally, a child will be a business. Will have a business orientation. But, there is a starting point that we all have.
Now, can things be varied from the starting point? It is possible. But, there is a limit to how much we can vary. Sometimes, we can have a stone sculpture which can be painted in such a way that it looks like marble.
It is possible. It is not marble. It can be made to look like marble.
So, there are certain amount of changes possible. But, the starting point is there. So, we have to see whether the responsibility is there or not.
Response ability is there. Now, we go to the last point. What is the acronym once again? ARC.
So, A was what? Ability. So, am I communicating properly? R was responsibility. Is it that the other person can understand what I am doing? C is Circumstance.
Sometimes, we may be in certain circumstance where things just don’t work. And, this circumstance comes from factors beyond our control maybe beyond other person’s controls. So, what does that mean? Say, if somebody wants to teach French and they are at a place where nobody speaks French and nobody is interested in speaking French.
Then, no matter how good the teacher they are, they are not going to succeed over there. Isn’t it? If today, somebody says, we will fight in wars with archery. Well, it is a good idea, but if you want to fight with archery, first you have to invent a time machine and go 500 years behind.
Otherwise, even before you put the arrow on your bow, you will be killed. there is particular skills which work at particular circumstances which don’t work at particular circumstances. So, this is where the idea of destiny comes in.
So, if you see that, consider the example from the Mahabharata, there was Vidura. Vidura had great communication skills and Vidura wanted to guide Dhritarashtra. Now, Dhritarashtra was not a bad person.
Then, if you say, even in badness, there are different levels. There is weakness and there is wickedness. Now, weakness and wickedness, can you if you say, what is the difference between the two? Yes, please.
I appreciate how articulate you are. Good one. So, one way to understand is, wickedness is often inside out.
That person wants to be cruel, wants to be harsh. That person gets joy in being cruel or mean or harsh. Say like, in some class, in some school, there is a bully and that bully mocks someone, teases someone, makes fun of someone and that bully gets joy in doing that.
Now, when the bully is doing that, there might be some other kid who might not like doing it. But, that bully may get on their case if they don’t join in mocking the person. So, they may also mock because they are weak over there.
So, wickedness is often outside in. It’s like, outside pressure comes in and because of that we end up doing something. So, why are we discussing this over here? Duryodhana was wicked and Dhritarashtra was weak.
Generally, wherever there is weakness, there will be someone nearby with wickedness to exploit that. Like, if say in school, there are some kids who are weak whenever some exam pressure comes up, tension comes up, they are getting depressed. And, maybe there are some drug peddlers over there.
You are feeling down, take this drug, you will feel better. So, they may not really be interested in making the student feel better. They are only interested in making money.
But, they want to get the kids hooked to the drug so that they will have a customer for life. So, wherever there is weakness, nearby there will be wickedness hovering to grab it. So, now, Dhritarashtra was weak.
Weak means, due to his attachment to Duryodhana, he just would not listen to Vidura. Then, what happened? The Mahabharata described that again and again, Vidura would give good advice. And, Dhritarashtra would listen and not listen.
In Sanskrit, often the words are pashyan apina pashyati. You see, but you don’t see. Like that, there is shrunvan apina shuryati.
You hear, but you just don’t hear it. So, it was eventually when Duryodhana was killed in the war, that’s when Dhritarashtra realised, my hope that my son will become the king is permanently frustrated. And then, when Vidura came and instructed him, that’s when Vidura’s words had an impact.
Vidura’s words were as strong before also, as wise, as insightful, but they did not have an impact. So, sometimes, we just have to wait for the right circumstance to come. So, there’s an American thinker, Mark Twain.
He said that, when I was 17, my father was a fool. Now, I’m 25, and I’m amazed how much the old guy has learned in the last 8 years. Now, it is possible the father could also have learned, but it is much more likely that at 17, the hormones are high, people feel that I can conquer the whole world.
As, in the teenage world, as one’s intelligence is increasing, one starts feeling everybody else is a fool. Then, as one comes to the age of 25, they become a little responsible, they start settling down in life. Life is far more, I can’t just conquer the world by my efforts.
A lot more complexity is there. we start becoming a little more open to learning. Sometimes, we just have to let time pass, not do time pass, but let time pass, just be patient.
So, circumstances need to change. And this is where I will talk about the principle of karma over here. I will be talking about the principle of karma in tomorrow’s session also a bit more, but at one level, karma is a very simple and logical principle that if I do action worth 100, I should get result worth 100.
If you go to a shop and we pay a bill worth 100, we pay a bill of 100 dollars, then we expect products worth 100 dollars. That is the basic principle of karma. Action leads to result and it’s proportional.
However, what may happen is if somebody has a credit line with a shop, then they might go and buy something and they don’t have to pay anything over there. And they don’t pay anything for a month and at the end of the month they go and buy something worth 20 dollars and the bill comes 200 dollars. Hey, what happened? I just bought 20 dollars.
But, what you have bought throughout the month is getting accumulated over there. So, similarly for us, sometimes it may happen that we may do an activity worth 100 and the result we may get is worth 10. We feel this is so unfair that we communicate very effectively with people but people just don’t listen to us.
Now, why is that happening? Because there is some past karma coming in over there. So, the present result is not just a result of present actions but also past actions. So, if minus 90 comes from the past, then, if I am very polite with you, I expect you to be polite with me.
But, if in the past, I have been very mean to you. Now, I may be polite but you may be cold. Now, if you are being cold, you are being reserved, you are being a little standoffish, then, I could suggest you are a bad person.
You are just a rude person. But, it could be because of my past actions. Maybe you will watch me, not just once, twice, ten times, fifteen times.
Are you consistently polite? Are you really a changed person? Or, is it just a facade? And, if you regularly see me being polite, then, you may also change. So, what happens is, our, the present results we get may not always be the results of our present actions. It’s present actions plus past actions.
So, now, the past actions, we don’t know how they work. And, that’s why we’re talking about circumstances. Circumstances are shaped by our past karma.
So, sometimes, it may happen that we may do something worth ten and we get a result worth hundred. So, how does that happen? That is because, from behind, in this case, plus ninety is coming in. So, sometimes, we make a few words, maybe, say, if somebody, for whatever reason, respects us a lot, and then, we speak few words to that person, person takes those words very seriously.
And, now, sometimes, it happens that, no, one person tells somebody something, another person doesn’t listen, another person tells, they listen. Maybe, they don’t respect the first person, they respect the second person. When the people say that, I reject you, they don’t listen.
But, if there’s someone whom both people respect, they go to that person, that person gives a particular verdict, both may accept. Now, it’s not that that person’s reasoning is necessarily any better than the first person’s reasoning. But, it is because that person has a certain level of respect.
And, that respect may have been earned by their past actions, maybe that respect is earned because of the position that they have. So, there are circumstances, broadly talks about some extraneous factors which are not in our control. That’s why when the Gita talks about, what that means is that, now, this, if I am here, the present karma is to some extent, in my control.
Now, this is what we desire. Now, this is what we don’t know and many times, we can’t, even can’t know. So, the key principle, when the Gita says, don’t be attached to the results.
What does it mean? Detachment is not indifference. Detachment is not irresponsibility. If we teach our children Bhagavad Gita, this happened with one devotee, he said that his child went to school and we had a Sunday school and Sunday school they learned Karmanye Vadhika Raste.
Exam was the child was not studying. And mother said, why are you not studying? He said, I am not attached to the results. Now, they have conveniently forgotten the part that we need to do our work.
So, the idea is that when our desire for the results become so strong, so dominating that it overrides our dedication to our efforts, then what happens is that if the result is not coming, what is the point of doing it at all? And some areas it may be true. If we have a certain hobby, we have a certain interest, we are trying to develop. But if we have certain duties, then what should not happen is the desire becomes so strong, so much greater than our dedication.
So, desire for result should not become so much greater than our dedication to effort, dedication to work. Then what will happen is we may just give it up because the chance of the result coming is very, very low. So, this will lead us to quit unnecessarily.
But then we need to do our role. So, for us also when people don’t listen to us, we can try to enhance our ability to speak, we can try to see whether we can help people develop their responsibility. But sometimes the circumstances may be such that the result may not come.
So, Ashila Prabhupada who wrote the Bhagavad Gita as it is, he for 40 years was trying to share a spiritual message in India. But it was just that people were not interested. Actually, it’s not that people, that is an unfair characterisation.
It is that India was a very religious country and after the independence, religion had a significant resurgence. But Prabhupada was not speaking in the local languages. English as a major medium of instruction, communication became prominent very recently.
Even now, a lot of people prefer to speak in the local languages. So, Prabhupada was speaking in English. And Prabhupada was also presenting spirituality, philosophical spirituality.
It was not, Prabhupada was not a great into telling stories and pastimes. He would do that, but that was not his focus. So, that kind of philosophy, that kind of presentation of spirituality, Indians were not interested.
So, then, Prabhupada didn’t become disheartened. He became disheartened, kept trying. He did not condemn Indians.
Okay, what can I do? He changed his circumstance and came to America. Indians are attracted by the white skin. So, I’ll inspire Americans, Westerners, to become devotees.
If they become devotees, Indians see that and Indians will also be inspired. So, we have to be responsible to see what is it that we can do. And, in many ways, leadership is about constantly owning, not just our communication skills.
Because here, communication is all about how I am speaking. It’s also observation skills. What is the impact of what I’m speaking to others? And it’s also observation of the setting that we are in.
And you take care of these things and gradually, we will be able to find that people’s capacity to listen to us will increase much more. And our speech will become more and more effective. So, I’ll summarise what I discussed today.
Broadly, our topic today was how I don’t people listen to us. That we try to understand this, we try to address this particular question. When we try to communicate, a key aspect of leadership is helping people guide others, learning, helping others to learn.
So, I talked about four main points. The first point was that mental picture. Remember here, that we will be at a lower level, at a higher level, others will be at a lower level.
We want to do it in such a way that people rise upwards, not that people go further away. So, the test of any kind of leadership, leading, guiding, parenting, mentoring is we need to be able to elevate people. So, this was the theme of 3.26, the words that we discussed in the Bhagavad Gita.
And what was the acronym we discussed? ARC. So, the arc of good communication. How do we build an arc? A was what? Ability.
So, we can increase our ability. This was based on 17.15 in the Bhagavad Gita. That is the austerity of speech.
So, in ability of communication, we can look at what are the two attributes? Yes, we want to be sensitive in our speech. And we want to be sensible. So, sensitivity addresses the emotional side.
In that, there are two aspects to it. What are the two aspects? One was at a baseline level, non-agitating. Anudvegakaram.
And beyond that, pleasing. Pleasing doesn’t mean pampering, but pleasing means uplifting, encouraging. So, you want the speech to be like a funnel over here.
It should go through both of these. And then sensible had two aspects. What was it? Truthful.
So, that is satyam. And then beneficial was helpful. So, there could be many truths, but we have to evaluate which truth is going to help the other person.
Because if we speak something which is too difficult for them, then they will go away from us. in this way, if we develop the ability, this will ensure that people will be encouraged and then this will ensure, the other side, sensible ensure that they are enlightened. So, enlightened here means that they know what to do, they feel like doing it, they want to do it, and they are ready to do it.
And R was what? Responsibility. That you know, do they have the capacity to respond? So, within that, I discussed three points. The acronym was CHIT.
C was what? Understanding or comprehension. So, like a child being told by the mother, keep your room clean and tidy. Or somebody from a different value system being told, why are you being so insensitive? So, you need to give them comprehension.
What is it that is wrong? Then the second is interest. Do they have the interest to do that? Either we have to create the interest in them or we have to find somebody who is interested. T is talent.
Sometimes people just don’t have the talent to do something that we want them to do. So, either we have to give them the training or we have to find somebody talented. Responsibility is where we need to observe others.
So, here I talked about when we are guiding others, it is not like painting or it is not like clay work. It is like sculpting. So, we need to observe what the original stone is and see what is the potential within that stone.
So, this understanding that human nature has certain innate characteristics and that is something which we need to observe. Krishna talks about this in 1845-47 in the Gita. We have innate nature and we need to work accordingly.
C was what last? A-R-C Circumstance. So, circumstance means that sometimes there are factors beyond our control and other person’s control because of which our words may not be having an impact. So, the circumstance basically we are talking about the role of past karma.
Sometimes some words just have an impact, sometimes some words don’t have an impact. So, like I’m doing action worth 100 but if I’m getting a result worth only 10 that is because the circumstance at that particular point is unfavourable to me. There is some negative karma coming from the past.
So, that negative karma will get over a new course of time. we need to have, we can have desire for the result but we need, our focus has to be on diligence or dedication to our work and with respect to the past we need to accept that this is something which I do not know. So, there is a certain level of deference.
Deference means like a respectful acknowledgement of certain situations. That this is something which I cannot control. This is, I just need to let time pass.
We don’t do time pass during that time. We keep doing our work but let time pass. We persist while we are moving forward and this way each one of us from wherever we are we can actually learn to communicate more effectively.
So, let us pray to Krishna that my dear lord help me so that I can communicate better, I can improve my ability, can observe others so that I can understand their ability to respond, their responsibility and I can be patient if the circumstances are unfavourable. Can you repeat after me this one sentence? My dear lord help me to learn how to help others to learn. Thank you.
So, any questions or comments? Yes. I don’t know if it’s really a comment or a question but sometimes in these roles as a parent you’re just exhausted. You may have the awareness to do these things and practise everything you mentioned but at the end of the day sometimes we are just surviving.
So, I don’t know, it’s a comment or maybe guidance or feedback you can give Prabhuji on how to deal with that exhaustion even if you’re in a work setting or at the temple or anything that you may feel this exhaustion. You may be aware on how to do these things but always applying it is very difficult. Yeah.
I think there are two things over here and we find that applying certain principles are very difficult for us. Sometimes, we may just have to find either another principle to apply at that particular time because there are many areas in which we can try to improve but we can’t really fight too many battles at the same time and there are some battles we just can’t fight. So, for example, the last 10-15 years India is rising on the geopolitical scene of the world.
So, when Pakistan did some cross-border terrorism kind of thing, India retaliated against it. But India has not really taken on China till now. India is not strong enough.
So, sometimes some standards might be just that some battles are just too big for us to fight. So, we don’t just need to be fighting, we also need to have a sense of progress. If we spend our whole life’s energy fighting a battle that we just can’t win, it’s extremely demoralising.
So, we may decide that some battles, I’ll fight later. That doesn’t mean that India lets China conquer all of its territory. Certain boundaries we have.
But we may not try to improve too much in this area. This is where I’ll settle. But other areas we’ll try to improve.
That’s one thing. We may have to choose our battles. And the other is that we also need to rejuvenate ourselves.
So, each one of us has to find out the things that give us strength. And this is where there can be a sometimes a little bit of loss of individual discretion due to institutional expectation. What that means is that if you look at the spectrum of activities that we do, that there’s a whole range of activities.
Now, some activities give us strength. Now, some activities while they give strength, now, other activities they require strength. So, some activities needs to require, give strength, some activities require strength.
And for each person it may be different. So, for example, somebody is very much of an introvert and you tell them go and distribute books. Now, as a service they may do it and they may do it well and they may also be inspired by it.
But they will be inspired and discharged by it. After that they need to recover. They need some alone time.
Somebody who is an extrovert, you tell them, you know, sit down in one place and just read Shastra. Can I read with someone else? No, read alone. Shastra is to study alone.
There are all these sayings that we get from the past or people circulated. There is some wisdom in there but it is not universal wisdom. Some people study best when they study alone.
Some people study better when they study together. So what happens is that the institution can provide us or the community or whatever larger we are part of, that may have a certain set of activities and some of them may give us strength and some of them may require strength from us. So for some people, you know, coming with your family, that just gives them so much joy.
For some people, coming back to family, they have so many expectations from me. I just feel burdened by that. Going to office is a burden, coming to home is also a burden.
Now, that’s not a very healthy state to be in. Somebody like that, then they have to find out, okay, where do I carve out some time where I get strength? So it is our responsibility to do that. And we cannot reject our responsibility just because we don’t have strength.
But it is, you would say, our responsibility to ourselves to do the activity that will give us strength. Okay. Yes.
Thank you for the beautiful class. My question was around the part A, ability where you’re speaking about sensible and sensitive. So in a typical relation, the topic was how to help, it started with praying to Krishna to please help us that we get the ability that we teach and the others can also take it appropriately.
So my question is what would be the an average what would be the appropriate ratio in speech of sensitivity, sensitive and sensible? I mean, typically, I think so some may prefer being more sensible and others may prefer being more sensitive. So on average, what would be the so I think it will vary from person to person. So some people who they can politically also there’s left and right.
So now the right will be all about say it as I see as you see it a little blunt and there are people who are attracted to the blunt presentation and there are people who are just outraged by the blunt presentation you know somebody can speak like this how who would elect such a person as a leader who would consider such a person to be like a leader but some people just like that blunt presentation so it’s like each each kind of teacher will find their audiences but then there are within whatever range we are we need to know about the other side also that there is to be sensitive and sensible each one of us will gravitate toward a particular percentage combination but we cannot be completely insensitive in the name of being sensitive and we can’t be completely insensitive in the name of being sensitive but we will have our normal percentage and natural percentage you could say and we can try to come towards a greater balanced state now what the balanced state will be for different people it will vary but we should be aware at least of the other side it depends on both that’s why certain teachers work with certain audiences certain teachers just don’t work with certain audiences isn’t it so if we are going to speak a particular kind like my talks are a little bit more analytical contemplative so it requires a certain intellectual level to speak I was once invited to a very rural audience to speak and the devotee who was there he thought you know I was an speaker so he invited me to speak and just the audience could not connect with him so I was making a very carefully reasoned kind of point and finally I realised that he is the devotee so I told the devotee to come both of them speak together and then I would speak and told him to translate in the same language but he has a particular way of speaking some people require a little bit of commanding speech you know we should not do like this so I was telling why we should say for example chant Hare Krishna everybody should chant Hare Krishna at least 15 minutes every day okay yes yes yes so some people want a little bit more direct kind of stuff so that’s just not by nature so I think each one of us will find our audience and we also have to acknowledge that certain audiences may not our kind of presentation may not work for certain audiences okay okay yes other nationalities are being treated. And there is, you know, we also understand as grownups, we understand that there are some limitations that we have, that are not battles that we can win. But the argument that we hear from the youth of today is that these are principles, and staying with the principles is more important than surviving.
And so what are your thoughts on that? And how do we address these topics? Yeah, it is a difficult situation, because in real life, there is always a tension between idealism and realism. In the philosophy of education also, there is this question that fundamentally comes up. Are we meant to teach our children how the world is, or how the world should be? So, are we to tell our children, speak the truth? Or are we to tell our children, people speak lies, everybody speaks lies.
Now, if we tell our children, everybody speaks lies, and they’ll say, yeah, you also speak lies, but don’t speak lies to me. It is not going to work like that, is it? But then, if we don’t train our children, that don’t teach our children that people do lie, then when they encounter somebody like that, they’ll just not be able to process it. So now the idea is that it is a healthy blend of both, that we want to give idealism, but the idealism should need to be balanced with realism.
That means we want to move from the real to the ideal, and we want them also to move, to help create a world which is closer to ideal world. But we have to acknowledge where we are. So, one of the problems, most of mainstream education nowadays, especially the non-STEM fields, they’re influenced by a very leftist ideology.
And the problem with the left is that it compares reality, it compares reality not with other reality, but it compares reality with utopia. And when we are comparing reality with utopia, or reality with other reality, now comparing reality with utopia is just a waste of time. Because, see, life is fundamentally unfair.
Now there are circumstantial unfairness to life which can be corrected. So what do I mean by circumstantial unfairness? So in certain parts of the city, there might be very poor education. Certain parts of the city, there’s better education.
So we can try to provide good education facilities everywhere. Certain people may be underserved by the state, they can be provided some special support. So there are circumstantial injustices, circumstantial unfairness that can be corrected.
But there is fundamental unfairness in life. What do you mean by fundamental unfairness? Say, some kids are born with an IQ of 160. Somebody else is born with an IQ of 110.
How are you going to correct that? No amount of training for 110 is going to take them to 120, 130, 140. They’re not going to go to 160 ever. So there is fundamental unfairness in life.
Say, if somebody wants to play basketball, and they’re four and a half feet tall. You know, unless you create basketball for vertically challenged people, a special version, they’re not going to be successful in that. So in general, if we look at life today, actually as devotees also, we are vulnerable to this because we may compare life today with Satyuga.
Now, Satyuga, that kind of, if you look at Indian history, that is historically invisible. And then when it happened, we do not know. Maybe it was there at a particular time.
But there’s no point in comparing reality with utopia. Now you may say, but that’s what we are meant to do. No, this world is a place of distress.
This world is a tough place. So can we try to decrease the unfairness in life? Certainly we can. But if we try to make fairness the fundamental premise on which life will be functioning, we will never get there.
We’ll never get there. Because life is, say, it’s natural. Some people communicate better.
Some people stutter. Even if they don’t stutter, they speak, but they’re just not that fluent. Now, how much effort in training them can you provide by which they can get there? You can’t.
Some people are born with a fair complexion. Some people are born with a dark complexion. In certain cultures where a fair complexion is considered more valuable, what is the other person going to do? Can we change the whole socio-cultural setting by that a dark complexion is also considered beautiful? Maybe, but it’s going to take some time.
It may not happen immediately. So there is a fundamental unfairness to life. Now we can go further to the big picture and consider previous life’s karma and all that.
That is not unfair. But in the world as we experience it, that we have to accept that life is unfair. And then with accepting that fundamental unfairness of life, let us see how much fairness we can create.
So we don’t want to deny the presence of terrible things in the world. But comparatively speaking, life is better than what it was 20, 30, 50, 60, 70, 100 years ago. In many ways, not always.
Certain cultural moral standards may be worse. But at the level of physical health, at the level of physical comfort, it’s much better. The 200 years ago, 300 years ago, when the pioneers came to America, the average lifespan was 50.
It is much more now. So there are objective parameters that things are better. So that’s why the frame of reference that is provided by leftist ideology is very unhealthy.
That frame of reference is something which, in general, psychologically also, it’s seen that people who are very much influenced by the left, they are much more unhappy. Because for them, it is that the whole system is wrong. Wherever they see, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong.
And that’s true. There are many things wrong in the world. There are many things right in the world also.
So now religious systems generally tend to be more on the right than on the left. Now, that is not always healthy because religion can be used to just continue the status quo and to justify the status quo. And sometimes the status quo is bad and that needs to be corrected.
And that’s why within religious traditions also, there are reforms that keep happening periodically. But in general, if we go through life, if I’m going through life, there are, what you can say, gifts in life. Gifts in life means somebody gets a great job.
I’m not talking about utopian things, somebody wins a lottery. We’re not getting into that kind of thing. But somebody gets a good job, somebody gets a good life partner, somebody gets a child who’s very talented.
They’re all gifts in life. And we can all look at gifts in life and look at all the people who are lacking gifts, or we can look at all the people who have better gifts than us. And that is true, they can look at it, but at a fundamental level, we need to appreciate the gift of life.
More important than gifts in life is the gift of life itself. So like what my mother told me, whatever lacks physically, God will provide intellectually. So what that did for me was, yes, I could say life is unfair, that I didn’t do anything to deserve this physical disability.
But then I could flip the coin and say that I didn’t do anything to deserve this intellectual ability also. Isn’t it? So life is unfair, but in the big picture, life is fairly unfair. Fairly unfair means sometimes we get less than what we deserve, sometimes we get more than what we deserve.
So what we do is, it’s up to us. If we look at how life is unfair, we will become better. We look at how life is fair, we can become better.
We can also make things which are better. So this is one of my concerns that, now, every society needs a left and a right. That the right is concerned with what is right in the existing system.
And we want to preserve it. The left is concerned with all those who are left out by the existing system. And we need to be concerned about them also.
But the overall balance is that where we try to address those who are left out, but we also respect what is right. So I think with respect to fundamental values, if we make fairness a fundamental value, we’ll be forever frustrated. Frustrated with people, frustrated with the world, frustrated with God.
And that’s why among the right and left, leftism is highly incompatible with spirituality, with religion. Like in the leftist ideology, for them, what is it? Religion is the opium of the masses. So Karl Marx’s idea was that, as long as people believe in religion and God, they will not work to correct social inequities.
Now, is that true? There’s some truth is there to that. But we cannot correct all social inequities. There will always be things which will be wrong.
And even if we correct social inequities, it can go from one extreme to the other extreme. And we may have society veering towards caring for, like say, maybe in India there was caste discrimination and the lower caste were discriminated against. Not maybe, it is true, it is there.
But in correcting that, there’s such a high reservation quota that almost became like a reverse discrimination against the upper caste. And many of the talented people from India just left India and came to America because there’s no such discrimination over here. So we can take the pendulum in the other direction.
Now, is life unfair? Well, it’s unfair, yes. But we have to make the best of the unfairness of life. Thank you.
So, okay, we have two, three more questions. How much time do we have? Okay, we’ll fight on Wednesday. Yeah, please.
Hare Krishna. Prabhu, some leaders, they use fear as a means of getting things done. So- There are only some leaders who don’t use fear.
Yes, yes. Okay. Nice find, Prabhu.
So Prabhu, if we are in a position of leadership, how do we make sure we don’t work on the basis of creating fear among subordinates? And if we are in a position of being subordinates, how do we not succumb to that fear created by leaders? How do we take it in a healthy way? See, fear is not a disease. Fear is not something to be feared. What I mean by that is, it is in the Bible, it is said, fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
Now, in the Bhagavatam also it is said, what is that? Madbhyadvati vayo yam suryastapati madbhyad. And it says that the sun moves because of fear of me. The wind blows because of fear of me.
The rain showers because of fear of me. Now, fear can be of a different levels. Fear can be the cause of terror.
But fear can also be the cause of deterrence. The two are very different emotions. Deterrence means that if I do this, it will lead to this consequence, therefore I will not do this.
Terror means a person is in a constant cloud of fear. So, this kind of mood is not desirable. Should children be afraid of their parents? Well, some level of fear has to be there.
Initially, it is a fear that my parents may punish me. But as the relationship develops, the fear should be of a different kind, fear that my parents will be displeased with me. And I care for someone, I don’t want to displease that person.
So, fear is a natural component of any relationship. The problem comes when fear is the only dynamic in the relationship. The relationship never goes beyond fear.
So, we know there are different levels that we approach God, fear, desire, duty, and love. So, we want to move towards the higher levels also. That is fear.
Desire is that, oh, my parents have promised me that if I get this many grades, then they will buy a new toy for me. And that’s why they behave properly. They do study properly.
It’s good that they’re doing it. Then you go to the level of duty. Duty is, oh, my parents have done so much for me or this person has done so much for me.
So, I need to do something in return for them. And beyond that, there is love. Now, the problem with that level of duty is, as soon it can become a burden, how much am I meant to do with this person? But when love is there, it is naturally because we care for that person.
So, in a relationship, there needs to be a gradual evolution toward love. Now, does it have to begin from fear? Sometimes, yes. It may then have to begin from fear.
So, we cannot rule fear out of a relationship entirely. But fear can be a component in a healthy relationship or a healthy component in a relationship, or it can be an unhealthy component in the relationship based on how it is being employed. So, having said that, so, like I said, fear may be of that, it may be of punishment, but fear may also be of displeasure, that that person will be displeased with me.
Now, if we are not afraid of displeasing another person, then there’s not much relationship in that dialogue. But should we make all our decisions based on displeasing, whether I’m displeasing or pleasing the other person? Not necessarily. Sometimes that person may be displeased by something which is good for them and for us, and we need to do it.
So, fear can be one component of the relationship, it should not be a sole component. And as a subordinate, each leader will also have their nature. So, some leaders will operate at a particular level more than others.
And some leaders may operate at different levels. So, we have to find out where we work the best, what options we have. But if fear is the dominant or sole component of the relationship, that is definitely not healthy.
Yes, ma’am. Sorry, Krishna Prabhu, this is from yesterday’s class, may I ask? Questions from yesterday’s class. So, you said that Duryodhana was already bad, but then Shokuni made it worse for him.
So, similarly, what about in Ramayana, Kaikeyi also got influenced by Mantra. So, what was the weakness in Kaikeyi that made her get influenced by Mantra? Yeah, so now the difference is that Duryodhana did not really change afterwards. Yes.
Kaikeyi did change. See what happened, the difference between Kaikeyi’s situation and Duryodhana’s situation is that Kaikeyi had a bond with someone who would lift her up. So, Kaikeyi was pulled down by Mantra, but she was actually doing it all for the sake of Bharat.
And when Bharat came and chastised her, she had built a whole imaginary Bharat in her mind who was actually pleased with what she was doing. But when the real Bharat came and chastised her, what should she do? So, she had an upward bond that could lift her up. Now, in the case of Duryodhana, he had people above him, but he did not have a bond with any of them.
There was Bhishma, there was even Drona. Drona was more of a martial teacher than a moral teacher, but still there was Bhishma, there was Vidura. They were a big presence in his life, but they were not of much influence for him.
So, because he did not have a bond to lift him up, so when he went down, he kept going down only. So, Karna also was playing some kind of a role, but actually in his association, Karna came down instead of pulling Duryodhana up. Correct, exactly.
So, Karna, in one sense, the Mahabharata story actually, in that story, Karna is both a heroic and a tragic figure. He is wronged and he also does wrong. So, both ways are there.
Prabhu, another question. So, when it comes to Mahabharata, the next king, so wasn’t it logical to, apart from how Duryodhana was, his disposition, as you said, but since Dhritarashtra was a king and he was blind, so he had some defect because of which he wasn’t king, wasn’t his son could be logically claimed to be a king instead of the younger brother’s children to be the king? Or is it that it’s looked at the second generation and whoever is the eldest, because Yudhishthira was the eldest and then he was the king? Yeah, it was confusing. And that’s also, generally, most conflicts don’t start with complete black and white.
There’s a certain level of grey, but from there, instead of addressing the grey, people just become more polarised. So, as far as I have read in the Mahabharata, the Pandavas never laid sole claim for the kingdom. The Pandavas, when they were given a barren half, a wasteland as a half of the kingdom, a forested part, they accepted that.
And even when they were deprived of that kingdom through gambling, they were said, just give us our half of the kingdom. So, in that sense, it was a confusing situation, but it was not the Pandavas who were claiming the whole kingdom. It was Duryodhana who wanted the whole kingdom.
So, you could say that Duryodhana had some right to it, but did the Pandavas have no right to it? So, it’s difficult to say that because generally, the idea was primogeniture. Primogeniture is where the eldest male child becomes the king. So, now Dhritarashtra could not, so Pandu became.
Now, after Pandu, Yudhishthira was slightly older than Duryodhana. Now, Duryodhana disputed that, but it was more or less agreed that Yudhishthira was older. So, then Duryodhana tried to dispute the parentage of the Pandavas.
He said that Pandu was not, Pandu was, he couldn’t cohabit with his wife. So, how could he have a child? Then this was vicious. That is basically what he was accusing was, he was accusing Kunti of having done something illicit.
Now, he did not voice it explicitly. The Pandavas were not as bad in for that, but he did like utter it in some ways. He said, Karna’s parentage is, who knows the Pandavas’ parentage also, like that.
He made certain statements. That was not a major issue in the right to succession because the sages had come with Kunti. The sages had told that Pandu had actually asked us whether we would do the yoga ritual.
And then we had agreed, but then Kunti had the blessing by which you could call the devatas. So, in that sense, that issue was cleared, but Duryodhana would rake it up sometimes. Actually, in that sense, Dhritarashtra himself was born.
Yeah, that’s true. But then with Dhritarashtra, everything was done under supervision of the elders. You know, it was in the kingdom.
Satyavati was the person who was the main mover. Bhishma also knew about it. In fact, Satyavati wanted Bhishma to beget a child, but Bhishma said, no, I have a vow of celibacy.
So, in that sense, the yoga ritual has to be done very, very carefully. Otherwise, it can lead to a lot of confusion. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The last question. Hare Krishna Prabhu.
Thank you so much for a very, very wonderful class yet again. And I’m very inspired by your talk about the arc acrimony, especially. The question that I had was, again, relating to parenting.
You know, a little bit of a situation with parenting is that it’s not just sculpting. You know, the mode or the person that we are working, you know, they’re consistently changing. There are other influences other than just, you know, the parent in their lives, which, you know, the other influences obviously get stronger as the child gets older.
And, you know, at some point we question our ability also. You know, how far can we improve our ability? So, the question that I wanted to ask is, people listening to us, especially children, you know, we mean well for them. And them listening to us is a very result driven activity.
And so how far should we chase this? I mean, we can drive ourselves crazy with adjusting circumstances or, you know, trying to elevate our children or influencing our own ability. Where is the happy medium between going too far and doing too little? I’m an expert at parenting because I’ve never been a parent. So, I’ll speak broadly in the principles of guiding, because the Gita is about guiding.
And then you can take what is relevant for parenting from there. In many ways, parenting is unlike any other relationship. Because, say, if somebody is guiding someone, you know, it’s not a relationship formed by blood.
It is a spiritual guide and spiritual student or it is any other field with a teacher and student in any area. So, there is, in every relationship, there is a mandatory component and there is a voluntary component. There is a mandatory component and a voluntary component.
What do I mean by this? That if somebody is a teacher, the mandatory component would be the teacher has to teach the subject. The teacher himself doesn’t know the subject. The teacher doesn’t cover the syllabus.
And that’s not something which is acceptable. But the voluntary could be, the teacher could see that the student needs some special attention. The teacher says, we’ll meet after the class.
The teacher may go out of the way to try to prepare and present. So, that’s the voluntary component. So, in every relationship, there is a mandatory and a voluntary component.
Now, in some ways, if you consider all relationships, all relationships of guiding, apart from parenting, the relationship itself is voluntary. In one sense. If somebody is in school, they can just drop out of school.
Somebody is practising spirituality, they can just stop practising spirituality. Somebody can be learning a skill and they say, I don’t want to learn this skill. Or I want to learn from someone else.
Whatever. So, in parenting, in one sense, the mandatory component is quite high. And it should be.
If parents start thinking that parenting is voluntary, then that is not good. Society will collapse. All civilisation will be destroyed.
Yeah, that’s a very value judgemental term. I prefer not to use that. And it’s many causes for that.
But yeah, so if it is parents don’t care, that’s not a good thing. So, there’s a huge mandatory component in that relationship. Now, is there a voluntary component? Yes, there is definitely.
In the sense that, how much are the parents involved in the child’s life? That at a basic level, the physical well-being is important. At a certain level, emotional well-being is important. But emotional well-being can be a whole spectrum.
So now, in general, if you consider what I’ve observed, there is parenting in the West and there is parenting in the East. In India also, you could say, broadly speaking. So, now in parenting, in every relationship, there is a certain level of conformity that is required.
And the word conformity has a negative connotation. But conformity, I could use the word compliance, obedience, whatever. That, you know, this is what I’m telling you to do and this is what you need to do it.
Cooperation, yeah, I could use the word cooperation. But it’s more, it’s not that the parent and the child cooperate. It is like the husband and wife cooperate.
The parent and child is much more, at least in childhood, it’s more of an instructive, hierarchical relationship, much more. At the same time, in every relationship, there has to be a certain level of autonomy. Like when parents across the world, when I travel, devotee parents, they complain that our children don’t listen to us.
That’s natural. But I sometimes do a thought exercise, I tell them, would you like to replace your child with a perfectly obedient robot? Nowadays, maybe technology can design a robot that looks just like your child. No parent has said yes.
Some parents say, I would like to have a robot in addition to my child. But not as a replacement. Because we want to have a loving relationship.
And that means there’s a certain level of autonomy that is important. So now in the East, Eastern value system, autonomy is much more devalued. It is not considered a very big thing.
In the West, autonomy is very, very important. So now, especially if we are Indian parents who are raising children in the West, then it becomes much more difficult. See, when culture changes or civilisation itself changes, then what happens? There is a confusion about role models.
Say we were parented in a particular way. But that model of parenting may not work for our children because they are living in a very different setting. So probably our parents didn’t have to deal with us getting into social media.
They didn’t have to deal with that. That’s a huge influence. That is why civilisational changes or cultural changes are huge.
I had a long-time question. Chanakya Pandit says that if you have to leave your place of birth and go and settle for a job in another place, that is an indication of past bad karma. Now, I wonder why that is.
You could say that you can be much more financially successful. That is also good karma. It is not just simply bad karma.
But the fact is that when we are disconnected from our roots, many things become much more difficult. And in general, past karma means that whatever we are doing becomes more difficult. So if somebody is living in a very cold place, that’s why past karma.
Just normal going out means you have to wear many clothes, you have to have a lot of protection. So generally, the ease or difficulty of doing something is indicative of the presence of positive or negative karma from the past. So this does create certain challenges.
So we have to recognise that our children will need a certain level of autonomy. And maybe they will claim it earlier than what we would be comfortable giving it to them. But overall, if we give good impressions in the childhood, we communicate good values, there may be a phase of rebellion where they may go off.
They may want to explore the world. But soon, the values that we are given in the childhood, that will come back. I’ll remind them.
So in childhood, it is like getting the children to do the right thing is very important. In early childhood. Not everything, but overall getting them to do the right thing.
But as they grow older, maintaining the relationship may be more important than doing the right thing. So if you consider below 10, I’m just putting it randomly, the exact figure. But getting them to do the right thing is more important than the relationship.
When I say more important than the relationship is, what do the children think about me? You know, whatever they think about me, they don’t have anywhere else to go. Isn’t it? So, not that we don’t care about the relationship. But see at that time, that relationship is not voluntary for them.
It’s more or less mandatory. But what happens as they grow older, we may want them to do the right thing. But by that time, from their perspective, the relationship becomes more and more voluntary for them.
One devotee showed me a video clip, a movie clip, I don’t know which movie it was. He said, our value system, how they are different. So, American boy and American girl are dating.
And they have a first date and it’s nice. And they say, the girl says, can we, I would like to do this again. Can we meet on Saturday evening? Or Saturday evening, he says.
On Friday evening, whatever, he says, you know. Oh no, every Friday evening, I go to see my parents in an old age home. And the girl says, wow, you see your parents every week? You know, you are the kind of boy I want to date.
Now, what she is saying is that children may be so disconnected that they may see their parents maybe once a month or once a year. That’s why there is Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, kind of stuff. So, for the children, the relationship with the parents can become largely voluntary.
Now, it should not be because they also need guidance. At least till they settle down in their life. But what happens, as they grow older, maintaining the relationship is much more important than always getting them to do the right thing.
Sometimes they may do some wrong things. But if they do the wrong thing, and then they learn from it, they face some trouble because of this. If they have the right relationship, they will come back to us.
They will tell us and then they will be more amenable to listen to us. But if we make it into an ego issue, you know, you should listen to me. If you don’t listen to me, I am telling you, you are wrong.
And one day you will realise it and you will come crawling back on your knees to me. Now, even if they realise they are wrong, they will not come back. So, as they grow older, maintaining the relationship is also important.
So, once we can take care of that, then gradually, they may experiment to some degree. And then experimenting, they learn and then they gradually come back. In general, I will conclude this answer that there are only three ways one person can influence the other person.
One is beyond the stage of controlling. One is their conscience. Conscience is the innate sense of right and wrong.
Conscience does not require logic. Conscience is just innate and this is not to be done. So, if somebody grew up in a family where nobody ever spoke swear words, then this is not done.
Conscience is there. Now, beyond that is intelligence. Now, intelligence means at this particular point, we show them the vision.
If you do this, this is going to happen. Conscience is, I innately feel it is wrong. Intelligence is when I see the consequence of how this is wrong.
Or how this will lead to harm. So, as we grow, we need to give the vision, the intelligence to children that this is where things will go wrong. This is what will happen in the future.
And that’s why, don’t do these things. Now, beyond that, the last part is you could say here, consequence. Some people need to go through certain experiences, get the consequences and then they learn.
And you do certain things, face the trouble, I should not be doing this. Some people take drugs and they have a very bad trip. Okay, I’m not going to do this again.
So, now, what if somebody does not learn from consequence also? Then they have to get more severe consequences. It’s a difficult situation, but broadly we cannot influence anyone beyond these things. So, now, conscience is something like sometimes parents may try to guilt their children into doing something.
Spiritual leaders may try to guilt their followers into doing something. Prabhupada spent so much time writing these books, can’t you spend some time reading them? You know, okay, we should be, that’s one way to do it. There’s so much wisdom that helps us improve the quality of our life.
And that’s why we want to read them. So, that’s from conscience, we move towards intelligence and then ultimately consequence. So, sometimes we just, we can try to provide conscience in the early childhood and then as they grow older, we try to provide intelligence as their intelligence develops.
But eventually it is when they learn from consequence, that is the time we need to be there to help them gather the pieces and rise up again. So, thank you very much. I like the sound of my own voice.
Thank you very much. Yeah. So, much of what I spoke is there in these two books.
So, this is Gita for the CEO, that’s the topic on which we are speaking. So, there is a chapter on words shape worlds, change your world or watch your worlds. That is based on 17.15 and 3.26, what I talked about in the Gita.
So, much of what I spoke is there in that chapter. But apart from that, this is a book which talks about leadership lessons and life lessons based on the Bhagavad Gita. It’s not just for CEOs.
Anybody in any role of leadership, formal or informal, they can find useful insights. This is also a good book to give to your friends and colleagues who may not yet be ready to read the Bhagavad Gita directly or they may not be able to connect with it. But a book like this, which helps them in their corporate life, that may interest them and that may inspire them to read the Bhagavad Gita later also.
Now, this is another book which is a more devotional approach to the Gita. There are 122 prayers in this book. Each, as I mentioned in the beginning, there is one picture of Krishna, one one-line English prayer, then a poetic translation of a Gita verse and then a reflection based on that particular verse which is like a prayer.
So, the idea is that the Gita is not just a book of philosophical wisdom. Gita is spoken by Krishna who is our Lord. So, how can we use the Gita’s words to also connect prayer fully with Krishna? That’s what I tried to give in this book.
So, many devotees have told me that before they are chanting or before their morning prayers, this book is very helpful. Just read something. And then, there is also an accessible table of contents where the titles are indicative of the content and then depending on the particular need we may be having, we may feel lost, we are feeling overwhelmed, we are feeling directionless, we are feeling too much craving and temptations, we are feeling spiritually disconnected, we are feeling lonely or abandoned.
What are the prayers that we could use at that time? So, there are 122 prayers like this. So, both these books are available and I will also be here for some time in case you want to ask some further questions or have the book signed.