Gita Study Mumbai 2012 07.01-03 – Understanding phenomenon and noumenon

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
so we are discussing the 7th chapter so we had a quick overview of the 7th chapter so till now Krishna has talked about attachment from the world so basically we can have different attitudes towards the world so world is a place enjoyment, entanglement and engagement so enjoyment is the karmis so how the world is perceived how different people perceive the world the karmis perceive the world as a place of enjoyment there is so much to enjoy in this world yes even if I fall in religion the purpose of religion is to go to heaven and there I can enjoy but then when one starts coming to the gyana level the karma yogis have some gyana they see this world as a place of entanglement I have to be very careful so at that time they see the world as a place of entanglement but when one comes to the devotional level one starts seeing the world as a place of engagement I talk in my Shudra Mission course about how the karmis romanticise the world the gyanis demonise the world the bhaktas neutralise the world so romanticise, demonise and neutralise what is the difference between these two see romanticise means oh this world is such a beautiful place there are so many senses here to enjoy romanticise then this world everything is a place of misery here every enjoyment there is a seed of suffering and the more you get out of this world quickly the better it is for you and then there is neutralise so there are different attitudes towards the world and Krishna has actually now introduced a different attitude that is the attitude of neutralising the world so this particular verse Krishna is speaking he speaks about a very Prabhupadi’s particular translation to understand the connection within 7.1 there is another way to look at the verse so it is like Krishna says shru so let’s see that so if you see the button this way first is here then you look at the verse backwards mayya satyamana partha yodam yudhya dasya asamshayam samagrama itha ghyasya si so what happens when we do shru then ghyasya si one gets gyana then one gets gyana then what happens asamshayam samagrama one samshay goes away so ghyasya si samagra we understand Krishna properly after hearing we get proper philosopher knowledge about Krishna so we get proper philosopher knowledge with asamshayam then when we come free from the doubts about Krishna then madhashrayaha we take shelter of Krishna when we take shelter of Krishna naturally what do we do we serve yogam yujan we practise yoga and when we practise yoga then what happens asakta manaha the mind becomes attached to Krishna so this is how in 7 stages one can achieve the perfection that is being talked about 6 stages here that was talked about as the culmination of the path of ashtang yoga in the path of ashtang yoga the culmination was yoginam sarvesham bhaktiratna always think of me with it so slowly slowly we are detaching ourselves from the world going to the forest, seeing within discovering the paramatma there then falls in love with the paramatma affection for the paramatma devotion for the paramatma that’s one way this verse offers another way which is the devotional way so mayi asakta manaha is the goal which was declared as the topmost success of the path of ashtang yoga and arjuna had expressed every mention that for ashtang yoga of beautiful boys, this is the practical form so arjuna knows that krishna will graduate that path in an accurate process so when we hear about krishna we get proper knowledge we may know something about krishna most of us always knew something about krishna before we were introduced but in the circle of samagram we do not have proper knowledge and that’s why there were so many doubts why does krishna dance, why does krishna do what does krishna do why does krishna deceive why was he unfair to karna so many questions come like that and if you have proper knowledge then they become free from doubts once you become free from doubt you know krishna is the supreme lord he is our hero and all let me take shelter of him what other shelter do i have for him let me take shelter of him then what happens by that let me understand what let me take shelter of him it is actually a process so there is a yoga union so what is the yoga union over here so this is not talking about jnana yoga or ashtanga yoga it is a problem of yoga and when one starts practising yoga then what will happen the mind will be detached so you can see that right now we are doing all these these are all progressive processes so we are reading about krishna knowledge about krishna is increasing we are taking hold of krishna and progressively our attachment to krishna is increasing so the acharyas describe that in this whole chapter this verse is the only verse which talks about pure emotional service all the other verses are pointing towards this culmination that is gyanavan mam prapadyate the verses are almost like attains that platform but this is the verse which is the success this is the sadhka the person who has become attached so now here shila prabhupada explains in a purport about how the process of shloka works and that is why he goes on elaborately from the second chapter to the first canto where he starts with krishna dhamsa the whole series of verses shila prabhupada quotes in the purport because he is describing how krishna will lead to how one will become attached to krishna by hearing about him and shila prabhupada explains that if this has to be done we should hear we should hear about krishna not from any you should hear about krishna not from any materialistic person but from shila prabhupada writes over here not from a non-devotee upstart uprooted academic education so why? because ultimately you want to get asakthamana if you want to become attached to krishna we have to book somebody who is attached to krishna only that person can give the attachment to krishna the prior theoretical knowledge will not give the attachment to krishna that’s how we have to get a devotee and then once this happens once we come to mayi asakthamana was there some question which somebody had asked me i will answer later what was the question little loudly ok so the question was is it related over here because here is one ashraya to take shelter shila prabhupada explains to take shelter by paramparas the question here was that can we read the shila prabhupada books and not read say our spiritual masters here our spiritual master lectures or something like that now if this is applying to our spiritual master and shila prabhupada so if you are talking about we don’t generally refer by the word shila prabhupada but shila prabhupada is our preeminent we want acharya at least our connection with the previous acharyas so in one sense so things work over here so actually the understanding in krishna consciousness is that our connection with krishna and the parampara is through through through shila prabhupada to the old previous parampara let’s see however i want to draw three branches is there some way to do that three branches of one thing it should be vertically downwards this is upwards ok let’s see anyway so let us see if this comes to fruition the idea is here for us krishna and from krishna going down through the parampara till prabhupada are like one composite entity that is how we connect with all of them all three of them we have one allegiance and one of the connections with is shila prabhupada books the second is through our spiritual master the third is through the institution is gone so actually how is this so we have one allegiance and three expressions for us all the three satcharas are there and we have shila prabhupada they are all like one unit together and we connect with shila prabhupada in his three manifestations of onesee so one manifestation of marishi is the institute that he has given us is gone another manifestation of onesee is the spiritual master that he has given us and this book is the third manifestation of onesee so in a way if you want to put it like this this would be like this is our understanding of shastra guru and we have sadhu so is gone is governed by the gbc that is the sadhu so guru sadhu shastra for us means we have our spiritual master we have the other senior devotees and leaders within our movement the sadhus and we have shastra so that is how we connect with everyone so now in general stepping over our spiritual master is undesirable in fact it can be disrespectful also you know what they were we asked for shila prabhupada do you know thakur is my favourite writer so brahupal told him very calmly he is my second favourite writer so actually for us brahupal should be our primary shelter make the connection so so now we should take the blessings of shila prabhupada we should shelter us in brahupal properly and then put it in acharya’s books whether it be chakravarti path commentary on bhagavata or commentary on the gita or whatever books now with respect to our personal spiritual master in fact the way things work within ISKCON is at first we read brahupal’s books then we come to know about the spiritual master so in principle the key if a devotee has more attachment to shila prabhupada then to the personal spiritual master there is nothing wrong with it if a devotee has more attachment to one spiritual master then prabhupada there is nothing wrong with that also as long as one understands that the spiritual master’s glory is not independent of shila prabhupada’s the spiritual master is manifesting prabhupada’s glory so both are accepted some devotees may find that brahupada’s example brahupada’s teachings, they were inspired that’s wonderful and then I am inspired by the spiritual master because he is following what shila prabhupada is doing and he is giving shila prabhupada to me by his life and I see message that’s why ultimately we are all connected to shila prabhupada in these three ways so in principle for most devotees now most of the spiritual masters in ISKCON by the way since I was not talking about brahupada’s disciples and some brahupada’s disciples have also started initiating they have not written books so as far as studying is concerned it is brahupada’s books only and even those spiritual masters who have written books they make it very clear that their primary reading should be shila prabhupada’s books they may write books for specific purposes so they all disciples very clearly that my books reading should be segregated brahupada’s books are your primary connections so shila prabhupada of course himself wrote books and he wanted his disciples to write books so the second character prabhupada writes in the duty of doing the announced order to write books to contribute to society some literature so now these books which are there they actually need to not substitute for shila prabhupada’s books they extend the reach of shila prabhupada’s books how they extend the reach of shila prabhupada’s books for example the scientific books there are sociological books, there are historical books so there are people who are interested in that kind of knowledge that kind of content so they do not read shila prabhupada’s books so they are scientific books written by the only scientist so they are taking shila prabhupada’s message into that world and they are acting as a bridge for people to come to shila prabhupada’s books so the books that we have by subsequent devotees offer them another classes so one way the books are taking us are extending the reach of shila prabhupada’s books to unreached audiences or the other is those books are deepening our understanding of shila prabhupada’s books so what are the purpose of additional books one is to reach out to those who are not reachable shila prabhupada’s books, second is to reach deeper in our connection between our heart and shila prabhupada’s books that was a deeper understanding of course shila prabhupada himself wanted several of the literature that he had not translated to be translated so shila prabhupada himself wanted to connect us deeper with the parampara so by shila prabhupada’s purpose we get a deeper understanding of what the previous acharyas have given us that is also deepening of our connection so in spiritual life our connection is very important and that’s why links to the connection of shila prabhupada then we go to the previous acharyas but in fact to a large extent it is not stepping over our spiritual master to actually go to shila prabhupada in fact it is through shila prabhupada that we get our spiritual master it is through shila prabhupada’s books we come to know who is the qualified spiritual master and because of shila prabhupada’s spiritual master shila prabhupada needs to take away the previous spiritual master that our spiritual master has come to his proper speed has taken shelter and has now become a glorious person who can give a shelter so as far as connecting with shila prabhupada is concerned that is not at all considered stepping over our spiritual master in fact the spiritual master is actually connecting us to shila prabhupada, is making our connection with shila prabhupada more formal and deeper through the process of initiation and through the process of instruction within our level of spirituality so now the questions lets move for ward Janam Teham Sameejyanam Janam Teham Sameejyanam Idam Vakshaan Sheshatah Idam Vakshaan Sheshatah Vidya-Tvale-Bhugyan Vidya-Tvale-Bhugyan gyatvaa-Namashishate gyatvaawaSasheshate So Janam TえhamsareeYanam I give Janam as Meejang Now Prabhupada translates this very interestingly.
Now Prabhupada started a magazine called Savidhyanam. He wanted to start, it was started much later by D.I. but when D.I. wanted to start a regular magazine, Prabhupada said what should be the name? He said Savidhyanam. Then he was a little confused.
Can you have it Vidyanam? He said no, not Vidyanam, Savidhyanam. So with realisation, so knowledge, Dhyanam Prabhupada translates as then we look at the translation detail properly. But in the context of the magazine, Prabhupada’s Dhyanam is theoretical knowledge, Vidyanam is realised knowledge.
Savidhyanam is much realised knowledge. So when we study the material world, we study the realisation of its connection with Krishna. So what was Prabhupada’s focus in starting D.I.? Scientists are interested in the natural world.
But get the realisation that it is connected with Krishna. Now apart from that translation, which Prabhupada gave as contextualising, maybe that magazine Prabhupada used an interesting word over here. So he turns this Dhyanam as phenomenal and Vidyanam as luminous.
Now what is this phenomenal and luminous? So we often use the word phenomena in a generic sense. Okay, the phenomena of cricket mania, the phenomena of inflation, the phenomena of this, the phenomena of that. But what does phenomena actually mean? Phenomena technically or philosophically, it means that which is perceived by our senses.
So phenomena refers to that which is perceived by our senses. And luminous, so phenomena and luminous are two distinct words. Phenomena is that which is perceived by our senses.
And luminous is the object as it is independent of our sense perception. So let’s explore this a little bit more. Phenomena and luminous.
So Prabhupada will be very sick with the converse over here. And we’ll see what is the import of this. Phenomena and luminous.
So luminous, so phenomena is object as perceived by our senses of our sense perception. Luminous means the object or the reality as it is independent of sense perception. So to understand the difference between these two, we have Chanakya Pandit’s famous verse talking about the relativity of vision.
He says that a sane, good looking woman might be there. For a materialistic person, that woman is the object of enjoyment. For a yogi, that woman is the object of illusion.
For a child, that woman may be the object of affection, may be his mother. And for a tiger, that same woman is the object of depression. They are both different perceptions.
So the enjoyment, affection, illusion, depression. So now these are all different perceptions of the same object. So that means we are personally and particularly.
But is that object something particular in and of itself? Independent of our perception. Is there some reality like that existing? So in philosophy there is always this issue that there is the world as we see it and the world as it actually is. So the world as we see it.
For example, now I see this room to be having a white colour, beside you have a brownish colour. So now does the wall actually have a brownish colour or is it just my perception? I would say that actually the wall has a brownish colour. That’s what we would think, isn’t it? But then somebody, if an ant is walking on that wall, the ant has no conception of colours, does it? So as per our current research, they don’t have.
So then for it, it’s not a brown colour object at all. But then our senses perceive it in a particular way, their senses don’t perceive it that way. So in quantum physics, they are called as quadia.
Quadia is objects, inherent properties, that give it the sensory appearances that they have. So are they inside them or are they, this is the brown colour or let’s take something more searchable, you know, a woman looks very beautiful. So is that beauty in her body or in her eyes? When the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it’s a common thing.
So only when a person is lusty, then the person sees a woman as beautiful. But then, independent of lustiness, is there something called beauty within that form also? Because we can see some forms are fair, some forms are of different complexions. So for example, I’ll take another example.
If I say gulab jamun. Now, somebody likes a gulab jamun, a person is mad after it. Another person says, okay, gulab jamun is just one more sweet.
So now, somebody finds gulab jamun delicious, somebody doesn’t find gulab jamun delicious. But is the deliciousness of gulab jamun present within the gulab jamun independent of the manasaiva? So is it based in the tongue of the eater or is it based in the object itself? What do you think? Interesting. Interpretation of stimulus.
Interpretation of? Interpretation of stimulus. Okay. So the idea that there are no properties in the object itself is mayavadha.
Ultimately, everything is a creature. So Vaishnava understanding is, there are inherent properties. At the same time, there is also a conception.
So, yes, a gulab jamun, if I say that ultimately, because the taste is a huge issue, then why try to make a delicious feast? Ultimately, the taste is a huge issue. Now, there is a real difference if a sweet is cooked properly and if it is not cooked properly. And that difference in taste is something independent of whether I am attached to the gulab jamun or not.
I can object to it, it is a sweet, it is a non-sweet. So, our attachment may heighten the perception of beauty or taste, may increase our attraction or increase our aversion, depending on whatever it is. So, now karela is bitter in taste, in bitter gourd.
So, now karela is bitter, some people don’t mind the bitterness, some people like it. They think they have fried so much and put so much spice in it that they can taste everything except the karela’s taste. Then they start taking it.
So, then apart from the perception of a person, the attachment and aversion of a person, there is the inherent property of the object also. So, the phenomena and the phenomena. So, Krishna is talking here about or the way Prabhupada is translating it over here is jnana and vijnana.
So, jnana Prabhupada says is to understand the world as we perceive it as it is. And beyond it is to perceive it as it actually is. And what does it mean to as it actually is? That is, it is Krishna’s energy, that is Krishna’s energy.
So, where is ultimately the sweetness of gulab jamun coming from? It is coming from Krishna. Krishna has manifested a fragment of his opulence within that gulab jamun. So, Krishna has added the taste of water.
So, from water all objects get their taste. So, that means, phenomena means to observe the world as it appears to our senses. As it appears to our senses, we don’t see things connecting with Krishna.
Then we go to humanist knowledge. How good it actually is? Then we will see that it is actually connected with Krishna. So, essentially, phenomena means we see it as disconnected from Krishna.
And humana means we see it as connected with Krishna. So, actually this connection with Krishna we will reveal from 7.7 to 11. How is the essence of everything included in that? Is this point of phenomena and humana clear now? Other acharyas have given slightly different meanings of these words.
So, Vishwanath Chakra Thakur refers to Gyanam as Aishwarya Gyan. And he refers to Vigyanam as Madhurya Gyan. Gyanam as Aishwarya Gyan.
And Vigyanam as Madhurya Gyan. Now this Madhurya Gyan is not exactly the knowledge of Prajna Krishna. But it is the knowledge of Krishna as Krishna as the lover of his devotees.
So, he explains that this Aishwarya Gyan is what will be explained in chapter 7. And the Madhurya Gyan will be explained in chapter 9. And then both together will be chapter 10. Chapter 10 to 12 basically. So, this is a rough analysis.
So, 8 also can be included in it. The focus is not so much. So, now we will see chapter 7 and 8. Krishna just talked, let’s talk about Bhakti.
Krishna is not talking so much about how much I love my devotees, how much I care for my devotees. He is talking the focus is on the material world and how Krishna is the lord of the material world. And how by surrendering to the lord you can become free from the material world.
So, the idea is that this material world is a place of bondage but Krishna is in charge of the world. So, at this level, you remember the example of a dog. If a dog is attacking me, I go to a person’s house and the dog is attacking me.
If I try to fight with the dog, it’s very difficult. If I just call the owner and the owner says, Tom, stop, then I just stop. So, here in this particular example, the focus is not on our friendship with that person.
The focus is on how that person is controlling the dog and saving us. Yes, that’s also out of friendship. But the focus is more on saving us from that dog.
So, that is how this Lord of Brainy Asia, one of my Mahayana devotees, Krishna has the control of this world. He will save us from this world. But later on, Krishna will focus on independent of the material world or within the material world itself, how Krishna as a practitioner works.
So, the concept of maya is put aside. And there is a deeper understanding. So, now let us move forward to the next course.
Ashram Prabhupada’s course. This gyan is a continuation of the gyan which is talked about in the fourth chapter. Imam Vivaswate Yoga is talked about.
I tell you this knowledge. At that time, the focus was on Karma Yoga. But Karma Yoga ultimately has to be offered to some person.
And that person is Krishna. So, you remember I mentioned that that section was there, starting with Arjuna’s question. How can I know? So, there that section, from 4.5 onwards, where Arjuna answers the question, there he is focussing on Krishna’s story.
So, that 4.5 to 4.40, there is a glimpse of the focus on Krishna, the divinity of Krishna. So, that is being continued. That is being expanded.
So, Prabhupada, in the fourth chapter, he explains this. There is nothing left to know. And he explains this from the point of view of Krishna.
One knows the Lord. One knows the absolute truth. One knows everything.
So, Prabhupada’s example for this, just like if I go to America, and in America I want to know some things. Okay, I have to get this permission. I have to start this.
Now, to do all that, it is difficult. To go to each department, talk with everybody, get it done. But if I know the Prime Minister, I just tell the Prime Minister, I am going to get everything done.
Because he knows. So, Prabhupada says, what does it mean to know everything? If we know the source and control of everything, then whatever needed to be known, we will get to know it. Now, Arshi Shetha, here, is actually an expression of Krishna’s affection.
I will not leave anything to be known. I will tell you everything. And Arshi Shetha is further elaborated next to Vanga’s, that actually you know this one thing more than the other.
So now, this raises a question. We say that actually Bhagavad Gita is like a preliminary book. When Bhagavad Gita is like the graduation, then Bhagavad Gita is like the post-graduation.
And Chetan Charnamul is the long version. So, if that is the progression, another progression which we will discuss is how? The thing Bhagavad Gita tells God’s, remember? Bhagavad Gita tells God’s identity. Bhagavad Gita tells God’s activity.
Chetan Charnamul tells God’s mentality, his heart. So, that is the progression. I think I have to conduct the exam now.
There are so many things that I am talking about. But, at least there are some striking points. These are important for us to understand our philosophy’s progression.
So, what is the progression Gita gives? Krishna’s or God’s identity. Do you remember I had discussed it or you don’t remember this particular portion? God’s activity. I think I didn’t write things, that’s why it may not have been emphasised.
Is this writing on the this thing? If it is slowing things down for you? Maybe some of you can let me know about this. So, God’s mentality, his mind. How does he think? What is his heart? That’s the progression.
Now, this is of course in our material life, we try to think of progression in terms of waterproof categories. This is not waterproof categories. In Bhagavad Gita also we see the heart of Krishna.
In Bhagavad Gita also we talk about the identity of God. This is the absolute truth. But, overall the broad purpose, if you look at the Bhagavad Gita where is Krishna’s heart being revealed? There are a few verses.
Maybe a dozen or so verses. Two dozen verses at the most. Where is Krishna’s heart being revealed? The focus is to understand the position of God.
The greatness of God. In Bhagavad Gita also, God’s identity is talked about in certain philosophical sections. But the focus is on the past life of the Lord.
Chaitanya Chaitanya Amar, that’s where the past life will have more focus on. It’s called Krishna’s focus on that. So, this is the progression.
But then, if this is the case, then we would say that how is Gita knowledge complete? Krishna is saying that by knowing this nothing more can be known. How is Gita complete? If it is just talking about God’s identity not talking about the future progress in things. Actually, complete principles are given.
Complete details can never be given. Krishna is so infinite that as far as details are concerned, nobody can do it. Bhagavad Gita makes so many times even if somebody can count them all the number of atoms in the world.
In the universe, still one cannot count the qualities of Krishna. So, when Krishna is talking about complete principles are given. What are the principles? Essentially, we should talk about Tattvatraya.
Tattvatraya is as we discussed earlier Jiva, Jagat and Jagadish. So, once one understands these three things, then one understands the basic principles of Bhagavad Gita. I am a soul and this nature is not my actual nature, is not my actual place of staying.
And then there is Ishwara who can free me from this. And I can turn back to Jagat. So, these three, the Tattvatraya and understanding these three, their interactions and their interrelationships is the essence of knowledge.
Once we understand this, then we have understood essential principles. Now, okay, I have to devote myself to Krishna. How do I devote myself to Ishwara? For that, I need to know the beauty of Ishwara.
For that, pastimes are there. So, the broad principles are given in the Bhagavad Gita. Do you know the definition of knowledge? Knowledge means to know matter, spirit, and their control.
Is it right? It’s where you get matter, spirit, control. So, that is the MSC degree. MSC, matter, spirit, control.
So, once you know these three things, so Ji, Jagad and Jagadish is what? Matter, spirit and control. Ji, Jagad, spirit, control. So, once we know these three, we know it complete.
So, sometimes we quote this verse to compare with other religious traditions. For example, the Bible, it has said that there is so much more to be known. There is much that I have to tell you, but you have not the ears to hear.
And he said, Krishna is saying, I have given you everything to comprehend, what more do you need? So, this contrast is fine as far as it goes. And what is the principle? So, actually, if you look at the Bible or the other scriptures, the Abrahamic religions, they don’t use this systematic analysis of even these three principles, Ji, Jagad and Ishwara. Because they don’t study, they don’t have detailed knowledge about Ishwara.
There is no clear conception of the soul. The soul in the Abrahamic literature is used more as a metaphorical reference to one’s non-material essence. It’s not an anthropological entity.
So, sometimes the soul can be used figuratively. Love God with all thy heart, all thy might and all thy soul. Or for that matter, somebody may ask that, you know, what profits a man if he loses the whole world but loses the soul? Now, this we are talking about, how can I lose the soul? Or how can I love with my soul? I am the soul, isn’t it? So, sometimes we may use the word my soul.
So, then we use the word my soul. There we are using the word soul not in a literal sense of a entity. We are using it to refer to something different.
What are we referring to? So, reference to soul, this is a important point. Reference to soul. So, in the Gita, it is as a clear ontological entity.
Now, don’t get frightened by the word ontological. Ontological, basically, ontology is the science of existence. Ontological, the package exists as an entity.
So, from the Gita point of view, soul is as a clear ontological entity. The Abrahamic religions, the Abrahamic means Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Abrahamic text.
The soul is basically like a metaphorical reference to our non-material essence. As there is something non-material, there is something essential and that is what you have to use. The love of the soul, I have my soul.
Whatever is the essential essence, love all of that. Now, it doesn’t mean that Bible says there is no distinctive entity called the soul. They just say that.
But there is no clear analysis of the soul. In the Bible, there are verses which say that those who kill the body do not kill the soul. So, that means that we did not require body and soul, but there is no clear explanation of that.
And certainly, if you look at it in the Jagat, there is nothing like the three modes of material nature which describes how this Jagat works and how it is controlled by the Lord. There may be exalted statements, like I did, I had nothing to move the world without God’s will, like we have in the Bhagavad Gita. There are verses like that.
But there is no systematic analysis like Sankhya is there. So, even with respect to Jeeva Jagat and Jagdish, the clear principle was not there. The core principle was there.
You surrender to God and you are ready to live eternal life. But, many Christians think that we are not eternal now. Only if we surrender to God, then we become eternal.
So, this is no. For them, they consider eternity not as an innate property of the soul, but eternity as a gift given by God. This is the way some Christians try to avoid the implication of a cruel God who sends sinners to hell forever.
That means, you know, you just don’t surrender to God for one life and go to hell forever. It’s a disproportionate punishment. You know, suppose somebody commits a crime for, say, somebody is a thief for one month, stolen something, and you punish him for 100 years for that.
If you are like that, this is the soul. Some Christians say, actually, if you don’t surrender to God, then you die and you are finished. So, they try to explain that way.
So, they think that eternity is not an innate property of the soul. They have different interpretations. So, the point is that it’s not very clear what the soul actually is.
So, Thomas Aquinas was a prominent thinker who thought there are three different kinds of souls. So, there are vegetative souls, which are there in animals and plants, and then there are sentient souls, which are there in animals, and there are rational souls, which are there in humans. It’s only rational souls are capable of becoming eternal.
All other souls are just temporary. They live and they die. So, it’s a very strange idea.
So, even the understanding of Jiva is not very clear. That’s why this statement, in a comparative sense, has the validity that, yes, Krishna has given the basic principles quite clearly and validly. So, once we understand these basic principles, it’s fine.
They have understood the essential principles. Then the evidence can be fulfilled. Okay, now let’s go to the third verse.
So, now, before Krishna starts bringing up, describing the knowledge, he has said, पशुरू देवाव। So, after studying that, so, first is actually glorifying the Nadiantri verses. First verse he says, actually by hearing this, we become attached to Him, which is the perfection of Jiva. Second glorification he says is, the second verse is that, if you know this, you will know everything that is there in the world.
Third is that, if you know this, actually means very, very rare. Very rare. So, it’s like, you know, one of the cases we have been talking about.
For example, somewhere, parents want to tell their children to study very hard so that you can graduate and go to IIT. So, what will happen by going to IIT? You will go to a registration. Second he says is, actually, you know, in IIT the education is so systematic that practically all colleges, there are other IIT colleges, get it all over here only.
So, Ashish, and then, you know, lakhs of students apply but only a few thousand go there. Manisha, Ram, Saraswati. So, basically, Krishna is creating eagerness.
Like, Arjuna could hear that knowledge and so, these three verses are talking about three different glories of that knowledge. So, what are the three glories? First verse is talking about the exaltedness of the destination and which you may say, five words are going out which I will, that you will get missed. Krishna is giving.
Exaltedness of the destination. Mayi Asat Tamanana. Yes, 7.1. Then, 7.2 is talking about the breadth of the knowledge.
How much you will know? Arshe Hinda. You have nothing left to know. So, this knowledge will take you to a very great destination.
I will cover perfectly everything that you know. And third is, 7.3, we will talk about rarity of acquisition. Actually, it is very rarely acquired.
It is very, very rarely acquired. Therefore, take it very carefully. So, Krishna is getting a lot of attention by giving this knowledge.
Rarity of acquisition. So, let us look at this verse now. Now, Kashyap Yata Vi Siddhaye.
Few endeavour to know it. Few endeavour to know it. Few actually come to know God.
So, Rishabh Gopal explains this to refer to that, from material life, few endeavour to know about the soul. Kashyap Yata Vi Siddhaye. Few endeavour to know about soul, know about God and among those who come, few endeavour to know about God.
Few actually know about it. So, that means, the first level is materialist. Second level is transcendentalist.
And third level is devotees. So, Manushyana Sahasrayeeshu, refers to materialist. Kashyap Yata Vi refers to transcendentalist.
And Kashyap Maam Vittapada refers to devotees. There are three progressions we talked about in this verse. And the progression understanding that how this knowledge is rare.
So, Manushyana I’ll put it simply, 7.1A. A is what? Manushyana Sahasrayeeshu. 7.3A, sorry. Manushyana Sahasrayeeshu.
7.3A, sorry. It’s referring to materialist. So, among these people, few actually become transcendentalist.
So, Kashyap Yata Vi Siddhaye, this refers to transcendentalist in general. Those who try to know about Atma, those who try to know about Paramatma. And then, Kashyap Maam Vittapada.
So, this refers to the devotees. So, this is Krishna’s time of domination. And actually, Prabhupada’s purpose is quite important.
Prabhupada says, as a Jnani said that actually his path of bhakti is very easy. These are sentimental things. But then he says, actually if it is easy, then why would somebody take such a difficult path? Ultimately, all paths are the same according to their philosophy.
So, imagine that if one path is somebody can go from here to Kolkata by AC train, and somebody can go by a crowded, unreserved train. Suppose it is easy, then it is easy, isn’t it? So, why would somebody do the crowded train? Suppose Prabhupada argues that if you say that path of bhakti is easy, then why are you taking a difficult path? Then he says, actually, if the path of bhakti is done physically, then it is easy. Art of action is scripturally not easy.
Because it requires surrender to Krishna. And that is difficult. That’s why human beings and the Jnanis fall away from this path.
But the actual demand of surrender is there. Because in the path of all the other paths to some extent, the path of Karma Yoga, the path of Jnana Yoga, the path of Dhyana Yoga, they don’t stop at all. I am so detached.
I have so much control. I am so knowledgeable. But the path of bhakti involves actually living a very good life.
You know, I am insignificant. I am a servant of God. God is great.
So, if one says at a physical level, at an intellectual level, the path of Karma Yoga, the path of Jnana Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga will be more difficult than bhakti. They are going out sitting around at that time of meditation. They will be difficult physically.
Analysing the spiritual world, trying to navigate, I know it’s a little intuitive. But bhakti is difficult egoistically. Because at an ego level, it is difficult to accept the glories of Krishna constantly.
You know the focus of Krishna. So bhakti, when we do it according to scripture, it is not easy. It is very challenging.
And that’s why few people want to know about it. So, difficulties in different paths. So, Jnana Yoga intellectually difficult.
Ashtanga Yoga can be physically difficult. But like that, there are different paths, different difficulties. But bhakti Yoga is difficult for the ego.
It requires surrender. All other paths deflate the ego. Bhakti Yoga deflates the ego.
That’s why it’s the most difficult path in its own way. See, there is this paradox that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says that Tatrarvita Niyamata Svarane Nakala Bhakti is chanting of the Lord so easily. There is no rule or regulation.
Anybody can chant. That’s the second verse. The third verse is That’s the most difficult thing in the whole creation.
Isn’t it? So, is it easy or difficult? To start, anybody without following any rules can start chanting the Lord’s name. So, in that sense, there are no rules. That’s fine.
But then, once one starts chanting, then one has to, if one wants to make advancement in the regular way, so, starting chanting, anybody can do. But if one wants to come to victory then one has to go to another place and chant. And that is not easy.
So, what the gathering group is saying is, Bhakti, you just chant, you dance, you just have some fun. It’s simple. It’s simple.
But then, the internal journey that is happening, that is not complicated, it is difficult. There is a difference between difficulty and complexity. Difficulty means, if I have to cross a mountain, crossing a mountain means you are climbing up, it’s difficult.
On the other hand, if I am trapped in an underground maze, and there are so many ways, I can go this way, I can go this way, I can go this way, in a maze, that’s complex. So, Bhakti is not complex, it is difficult. There is a difference between complexity and difficulty, is that clear? Complexity means, what is to be done itself is not clear.
If I am trapped in a maze, where I go is clear, but going is difficult. It’s not so difficult to know what I should do. I have to become humble, I have to become tolerant.
In the path of other paths, where do words end up? Because they don’t know the destination. Yes, I go out of the world and I focus on Jnana, but what after that? What is the ultimate truth? I don’t know that. That’s why we shouldn’t think that Prabhupada is chanting, dancing, singing.
It is joyful. But the internal journey that is there, that has its challenges. Bhakti is, what is the point I made? It is difficult, but not complex.
And of course, sometimes if our minds are complex, then Bhakti may become complex. This is simple for example. If our minds are very complex, then we may find Bhakti difficult.
But overall, the broad principles are not very complicated, not very complex to understand. Complex means finding the way in a maze. That is the example.
Difficult, what is the example? I said climbing a mountain. So, that’s why, Few people will come to know the truth. These are foundational verses of this chapter.
And we will continue the discussion tomorrow. Thank you very much.