Gita study Mumbai 2012- 02.17-25 Characteristics of the soul

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
In the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. Start from verse 17.
So we discuss the first section. Arjuna’s doubts and surrender. We start from the second section.
Which extends from verses 11 to 13. And basically Krishna talks about two ventures. He starts in 11 by saying that you are lamenting that you are not worthy of lamentation.
Then he draws attention that there is something eternal. Then when you understand there is something eternal. Tolerate the temporary.
And by tolerance in 15th verse he says you will attain liberation. And after talking about this. He now broadens.
So in one sense. These five verses are like a nutshell instruction. Because liberation is the ultimate goal.
But what liberation is. How exactly it is to be attained. All that will not be talked about.
So in the first five verses. Krishna has in one sense in a sutra form given his teachings. And now he is going to expand them.
From 16 to 20 onwards. So 16th we discussed. He universalises the principle by saying that.
There is a temporary nature and there is eternal nature. And the wise people can see these two natures. Now he will talk about.
How within the body these two natures play out. So he will describe how. Inside this body.
There is a soul that is eternal. Now in one sense he has mentioned that. It might seem a little perpetitious.
We will look at the internal flow of these verses as they move forward. But the important point is. Krishna has given sutra form.
He has told the ultimate goal of liberation. By tolerance. Based on knowledge.
Now we will explain. The same points in a more elaborate way. avināśhita-tadviddhi avināśhita-tadviddhi ye na sarvam idam tatam ye na sarvam idam tatam vināśham avyayasyāsyam vināśham avyayasyāsyam So.
avināśhita-tadviddhi avināśhita-tadviddhi That. What that is he has not mentioned in this verse. but he’s mentioned it earlier.
That eternal nature. Avinashita tad viddhi, that is eternal. Yena sarva-vidam tatam.
And by that by which everything is pervaded. Vinasham avyayasyasya. Again to emphasise it.
Why is it avinashi? Because nobody can destroy it. Vinasham avyayasyasya. Nobody can destroy this.
So this word is actually in oneself a little ambiguous with respect to what is being referred to over here. That is tad. Tad doesn’t say whether it is the atma or it is the brahman or what.
Similarly the word sarvam can refer. It is an ambiguous describer. Everything.
Yena sarva-vidam tatam. That by which everything is pervaded. So the Mayavadis use this to refer, to say that actually it is the all-pervading brahman that is being talked about.
That by which this whole universe, everything, all of creation, not just universe, not just all of creation, all of existence. Universe is our universe. Creation is that part of the world which is created.
That means all the immeasurable universes. So universe is like a small set. Creation is a bigger set.
And existence is the complete set. There are three. Sometimes when we use them interchangeably.
They are different terms with different scopes of meaning. So in normal discourse, that means normal discussion when we use these words. In our normal universe means this particular universe.
Creation, that part of existence, okay, which is created. That means millions of universes. Another is existence.
That refers to totality of everything that exists, material and spiritual worlds. So these are different words and they have their specific connotations. So now Brahmaji is the creator of this particular universe.
But Vishnu, the Purusha avatars are in one sense the ultimate creators of all of material creation. And then there is another world which is beyond creation. That is eternally existing.
So this contrast will come up in 8.20. That there is vyakta and there is avyakta but there is a para beyond that. That means there is a manifest and unmanifest. That means the universes are created, the universes are destroyed.
But beyond that there is an eternal existence. That by which everything is pervaded. Now if we look at the context again, is Krishna talking about all of creation over here? No, isn’t he? If we look at 2.12, it was very clear.
Then if we look just five verses later, 2.22 it is that is also referring to the Deva here. And the whole context over here is about the Deva. Because Arjuna is not really asking questions about universal realities.
He says how can I kill my relatives? So firstly from the context Sarvam, both from the preceding and succeeding verses as well as from the question to which these verses comprise the response, they refer to Sarvam, they refer to the body and not to all existence. But Krishnaji Thakur says that if we want actually the previous verses also and those verses can also refer to all of existence, then this particular verse avinashi tu, so tu can mean certainly or tu can mean but. So it will certainly, yes that which is pervaded the whole body is certainly eternal and if tu refers to but that means now the previous verse is all referring to Atma as well as Paramatma.
But this verse is different, is referring to if Sarvam is the whole of creation, whole of existence, then that will refer to the Supersoul alone. But that is a technicality. We will follow Srila Prabhupada and there is logical and contextual reason for Srila Prabhupada’s translation.
Now Krishna is making two points. First is something is indestructible and something is all-pervading. Srila Prabhupada in his Thakur focusses on all-pervading.
Now all-pervading literally doesn’t mean pervading all of creation, it refers to the whole body. Now what is it that pervades the whole body? It is Chetana, consciousness and now the soul is localised, the soul is situated in one place, it is in the region of the heart. Now of course when we say it is in the region of the heart, it is not in the heart, it is in the region of the heart and that’s why there are heart transplants can take place and the person doesn’t change, personality doesn’t change.
It’s like suppose I’m sitting on the chair, the chair breaks, I’ll just get up, somebody will put on the chair, I’ll sit down. So Atma is not lodged to the heart, it’s not riveted to the heart. And another point is that the heart is the area where the five pranas have their source of energy from, prana vayus are there and they have, the prana vayus are directed forces.
Their forces in, if some of you know physics, there’s something called vector. So vector is a direction with a force on it. So each of the prana is like a vector.
So prana, apana, jnana, samana, we’ll come to that later in the eighth chapter probably. But each is like a, so prana is the, say the wind which takes, which makes one move upward, downward like that. Yeah, he’s a proper talker.
The atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of airs. Now these are not just ordinary airs. The prana is much more composite.
We use oxygen just as one part of it. Oxygen is important for our breathing. But prana vayu is the air which has specific kind of functions.
Now modern medical science offers a particular model of the body. Ultimately it is a model. A model is something like a map.
You remember earlier I talked about how map is not a reality. A map is a Mumbai or a map of Pune. It doesn’t describe the full reality of Mumbai or Pune.
Similarly what modern medical science offers us is a map of the body. Now what do we mean by a map? Okay, it will say that you have a cranium here and then you have a kidney here and you have a femur bone here. So this is a map.
Now what this map doesn’t include is the presence of consciousness. This map doesn’t in and of itself include the presence of consciousness. So that’s why there is something in a living body which is not there just in the biological mass that may be the dead body.
So this is one model. Now Ayurveda offers a different model. It didn’t accept the same organs in the body but Ayurveda offers a different model for the functioning of the body and that is the model based on Kapha, Vata and Pitta and there is a balance of Kapha, Vata and Pitta which gives the body proper.
Similarly in yoga there is a model of the body based on the prana vayus. Now Ayurvedic model and pranic model are similar. There are many overlapping features but there are some areas that are specific to each.
So the five pranas are there and the functioning of the pranas is what enables the body to act. Now there is the soul, there is the gross body and in between is the subtle body. The subtle body acts as the medium by which the soul connects with the gross body.
Just like the person is watching a TV and is watching a movie on the TV. Then the TV screen is the medium by which the person is projecting himself into that particular reality. A person is playing a virtual reality game and identifying himself with the character who is shooting the thieves or whatever.
Then the screen of the video game, the virtual reality show is the means through which the person is identifying with what is happening in the video game. So the screen is like the subtle body. So the subtle body is the link between the gross body and the soul and the prana is the link between the subtle body and the gross body.
So I’ll repeat this. So what is the subtle body? Subtle body is the link between the gross body and soul and then prana is the link between the gross body and the subtle body. So now one quick way we can understand this is that the emotions, especially like anger, they immediately get reflected in our breath.
As soon as the person becomes angry, you see that the breath becomes fast. And in general, if we find our emotions are becoming very wide, then at that time, slowing down our breath is a quite a powerful way of checking the emotions. If somebody has become very angry at that time, if the breath is forcibly, consciously slowed down, then what happens is the person becomes calm.
The person becomes calm. Those on the Gyan Marga, who try to also control lust, they use a method that if the mind becomes too lusty and whatever is happening, the lust is not getting controlled, then just stop the breath. Just close the mouth.
So the mind, it is just obsessed with some sense object and dreaming, fantasising and the body is demanding some enjoyment, but just stop the breath. Then what happens is it becomes a survival issue for the mind and the mind just lodges itself off the sense object. Give me breath, give me breath.
Now, this is not something which is to be used regularly, but this is a way in which the mind can be wrenched off its images by forcing it to recognise that there is a far more basic necessity that is being deprived of. It’s much better to not let the mind dwell on sense objects, but this is one way which can be used. This also indicates that the emotions of the mind can be controlled by the breathing.
So, the prana is the link between the cross-body and the subtle one and that’s why if you remember when Krishna delivers Putana, what is it said? He took out the life air. He sucked her breast along with the milk, he sucked her life air. Now, what happens is when the soul goes from one body to the next body, the soul goes along with the subtle body and the life air.
So, the life air also comes out and that’s why my medical science says that if the breathing stops, then that in general is one of the indications that the person is dying or dead. So, now why are we talking about this prana over here? These five pranas, they have their functions, but they are like vectors and one vector goes downwards. So, prana takes the air upwards, apana takes it downwards and jnana is what they call as peristaltic motion.
So, they are all having their own functions. So, the five forces, their resultant is zero in the region of the heart and that is where the atma is situated and as the yogis practise raising their kundalini, then by the practise of yoga, they move that zero point of the five vectors upwards, upwards, upwards and that is what is called as raising the prana and then at the time of death, it is said that if you read the second canto, it is that the yogi covers his anus when he is doing jnana, when he is sitting in yogasana, he will cover that with the lower part of his leg. What is the idea? When he is going to leave the body, the soul should not leave to the lower parts of the lower holes of the body and the hole through which the soul departs is indicative of the destination of the soul.
So, the soul departs to the lower holes of the body, that indicates that the soul will go to a lower destination. The soul departs to the upper holes, it indicates that it will go to the upper destination and those who are perfected yogis, they actually bring their agya chakra over here, there are different chakras in the body, they bring the soul to the topmost chakra and then when they want to leave the body, they force their soul to break through the skull. So, that requires tremendous yogic power and the skull breaks apart and the soul pulls out.
So, if that happens, that indicates that the soul is going to get liberated. So, you know, these are not things to be emphasised too much in the bhakti path. Lord Krishna will tell in the 8th chapter that, that yes, there are these two paths, but for my devotees, it doesn’t matter.
Whatever time you leave your body, still you will come back to it. So, the soul is situated in the region of the heart. Now, if it is situated in the region of the heart, how can the soul pervade the whole body? Actually, by consciousness.
So, now how is it possible? There are two examples. One is, Prabhupada’s example, if we put a medicine in the body through the mouth, the influence of the medicine spreads throughout the body. Similarly, there can be, either we can put a medicinal herb or somebody puts a poison, the poison pellet just goes into the body system, but then it goes throughout.
So, like that, the consciousness spreads throughout the body. And Prabhupada uses another logic to say how this Yena Sarvamitam Tatam, it cannot refer to the all-pervading super soul because each one of us is conscious only of our body. So, my consciousness is pervading only in my body.
So, if I am sitting right now, and you are sitting and you are feeling uncomfortable, I cannot understand that. So, that’s an indication that the soul in your body is not the soul in my body. And that’s also an indication that you and I are not the same.
You and I are distinct individual persons. So, the Yena Sarvamitam Tatam refers to the body. Now, in some parts of the body, the consciousness goes only indirectly.
So, if the hair are cut, the hair, they don’t cause any pain because the Chetana doesn’t go over there. But if the hair is full, then the Chetana is there in the skin over there, it gets cut. So, there is this borderline cases, things like the hair are there or the nails are there.
These, as long as they’re connected to living body, then they will grow. But later on, they will not grow. Because of sort of reserve energy or momentum, the nails may keep growing slightly for a short time even after the person dies.
Or the hair may keep growing for a slight time. But that is only because of reserve energy. After a little, it will stop.
So, Krishna Shri Arjuna, Avinashi, that soul which pervades the whole body is indestructible. Now, Kashyap Karthumalasi, nobody and nothing can destroy that soul. So, now, he will explain this point further by telling that, okay, the soul is indestructible, but the body, so he’ll contrast it again, that Antavan, okay, we’ll go to the verse, So, to make this, all these bodies, so why is he using the plural over here? Because he has talked earlier about how, talk about me, you, all these kings.
So, these bodies are temporary. That is in the body, that is eternal. He is indestructible and he is immeasurable.
Now, interestingly, how can the soul be immeasurable? So, what is the measure of the soul? One ten thousandth of the tip of a hair. Now, this is given in the scriptures, here it will come in one of these verses somewhere. So, now, if we say that it is one ten thousandth of the tip of a hair.
Now, is it a literal measure or is it metaphorical? Metaphorical? It is mentioned by Krishna. Fine. Literal? Okay.
So, some say it’s literal, some say it’s metaphorical. Now, firstly, let’s focus on the important point. If I say the tip of the hair, now the tip of the hair itself is not a very specific measure.
When I talk about tip, is this part, is the tip close to the tip or how much of the tip? Isn’t it? So, the most important point over there is Krishna is indicating it is infinite, it is extremely tiny. That’s the most important point that we will talk about. Because another issue that can come up is, does the soul have a size? Now, the soul is spiritual and can it have a material size? Something is spiritual, it can’t have a material size, isn’t it? Yes, but then you can go deeper.
Do all sizes have to be material? Do all sizes have to be material? No, the spiritual realm is not sizeless, shapeless, formless. There are sizes in the spiritual realm also. The soul is essentially spiritual and the soul originally has a swaroopa.
When the soul comes to the material world, the soul comes in a bija roopa. So, the soul, just because it’s spiritual does not mean it’s dimensionless. So, the actual understanding is, firstly, it’s not exactly a literal measure, one ten thousandth of a tip of my hair.
Now, our microscopes can see much more than one ten thousandth. They can’t see it because it’s spiritual. So, firstly, it’s not a totally literalistic measure.
But at the same time, it doesn’t indicate also that the soul doesn’t have a shape. So, it’s like an in-between metaphor. So, if it’s only metaphorical, that would mean the soul doesn’t have a size only.
But if it’s only literal, then I think the soul has this much size only and this much size itself is not very specific because the tip of a hair is not a specific measure. So, actually, the aprameya indicates that it is so small that it is immeasurable. Prameya means to measure.
Prameya is related with the word pramana. Pramana is to know, which is the method of knowledge. So, aprameya is that which cannot be known.
Actually speaking, another way of looking at it is that the soul is unknowable because… So, aprameya, is it literal or is it metaphorical? Because tip of hair is a vague dimension. Metaphorical? No, because also have dimensions. So, this immeasurable indicates one, it is immeasurably small.
Secondly, it indicates, I’ll explain this, so it cannot be the object of measurement because it is always the subject of measurement. Now, what is this object and subject? Subject means one who sees and object is that which is seen. So, that which we are seeing for is that which we are seeing with.
If I am looking for the soul, I am looking for the soul with the soul. So, how can I see the soul? So, aprameya indicates that we can never measure the soul because it is not that I take the soul out of my wallet, keep it here and put a worrier callipers and try to measure it. No, the measurer is the measured.
The object of measurement is the same as the subject of measurement. So, therefore, the soul is aprameya, it is immeasurable. And now, of course, we will look at this more when Krishna talks about ajintyo yam.
Okay, so I can look at your soul and I can measure you. That’s a good way of looking at it. At the same time, even when we develop spiritual vision, when we say spiritual vision, what does it mean? At one level, it means we understand that beyond the body there is soul.
At a deeper level, when a pure devotee is self-realised, is it that the pure devotee develops an extra eye or something like that where he can see spiritual things? No, it’s not that he develops an extra biological eye, that the natural spiritual vision of the soul is revived. And then, at the natural spiritual vision, he can see everything spiritually. So, when we are talking about the soul being immeasurable, at that time the pure devotee is going to see spiritually.
So, Krishna is emphasising over here the method of naiti. If you look at the picture, what is this? All that applies to matter, much of it does not apply to spirit. So, our knowledge of others will always be second-hand.
Because at most, we can know certain external features. Like I said, I can only know about your say weight and height and I cannot know about your feelings and consciousness unless you tell that to me. So, now this is the first time Krishna has told Arjuna again, therefore understanding that you are not like that, the soul is indestructible, the body is inevitably destructible.
Therefore, fight. So, Krishna is talking about two people now. The killer and the killed.
One who thinks that he is the killer and one who thinks that somebody is killed. Both of them no no. Because the soul is neither the killer nor the killed.
Now, we understand the soul is not the killed because the soul is indestructible. But how is the soul not the killer? The soul is not the killer because Krishna has explained the prakriti, kriyamanani, guna, karma and sarvasana. So, whether the soul is the doer or not, that is something which we will discuss in the third chapter when we come to that.
But here, the soul is spiritual and Krishna is emphasising the point that actually, whatever happens at the level of the body does not affect the soul. It does not affect the soul. Now, Krishna will talk about the nature of the soul further.
So, this verse is explaining eternality in a different way. Eternality at one level means it is never destroyed. But Krishna is explaining that the soul exists beyond the time, its dimension itself.
It has no beginning and it has no end. Now, Krishna has also used the word ajo which is used in the third line. It is unborn.
Normally, with our material conceptions, we may think unborn means if something is unborn, it does not come into existence only, not existing only. So, this particular soul, it has not come into being and it will not come into being. What does it mean? But obviously, it is being, it is existing, right? So, it has not come into being or will not come into being means that it exists outside the time dimension.
And because it exists outside the time and dimension. So, first he said that okay, the soul is eternal, that is why it is not destroyed. Krishna is adding a new information over here.
What does eternality mean in terms of soul? It is not just something which is material, but it is within the realm of time, but it is not destroyed by time. Something which exists outside the dimension of time. See, the different schools of thought in the world, they sometimes use similar terms, but their understanding of the terms are different.
So, in the Christian tradition, they talk about a soul, but their understanding of a soul is quite strange in the sense that they have the idea that when a man and a human unite, God creates a soul. And once the soul is created, the soul is eternal after that. So, the soul is not existing before because they don’t accept reincarnation.
So, they don’t exist reincarnation. So, it is like this, it is, their idea of the soul is semi-eternal. Semi-eternal means whenever it comes into existence from that time, he is there forever.
Now, this leads to a lot of logical problems because first of all, if something is infinite, it is infinite. What do you mean by half-infinite? Isn’t it? This is half-infinite. It doesn’t make much sense because half-infinite is also infinite.
But if we apply that infinity to time dimension, then we say half-infinite means from present onwards for all time. But this idea, they use it to evade the problem of pre-existence of souls. So, there is pre-existence and there is post-existence.
That means before this life, the soul exists. After this life, the soul exists. So, materialism says that this life is all that there is.
There is no soul or if the soul is there, the soul is destroyed with the body. This is a rule for one. So, the Christian, it extends the existence to beyond this life.
But they don’t extend it to before this life. And this leads to serious problems. The biggest problem is they can’t explain why there is difference in the condition of the souls at different times.
That means why is there difference in the starting conditions of souls? If I, say, some people are born wealthy, some people are born poor, some people are born very intelligent, some people are born very poverty-stricken. So, who fixes the starting conditions of life? That is something which you cannot explain without pre-existence. So, in one sense, there are, actually when we look at the world, then pre-existence answers life’s inequities.
Inequity means injustices or lack of equality. So, consider a situation, let’s say there is a cricket match going on. And you see one team comes along and that team starts with a score of zero.
But another team comes along, when their batsman comes along, their starting score is 200. How is it possible? As this team is starting with zero, another team is starting with 200. There are three possibilities.
First possibility is that the match is rigged. That the match is cheating. There, the match is rigged.
That means the score people are biassed towards one particular team. That’s the first possibility. Second possibility is that the scoreboard is working by chance and chance.
And the third is, there are previous innings in which they have got a meal. So, similarly, if you look at the world, see that there is so much inequity. Some people are wealthy, some people are average, some people are poor.
So, there are three possibilities. First possibility is just by chance. Actually, there are three answers.
First is, so chance, what does the idea of chance doctrine do? It just makes us helpless and hopeless. Why helpless? Somehow, life is like a cosmic lottery and some people turn out to be winners and some people turn out to be losers. So, this is the idea of multiplicity.
And the other is, actually, why are the different people different? It’s God’s will. God has made like that. But why has God made like that? No, it’s God’s will.
We can’t question God’s will. So, when the Abrahamic religions ask this question, and you know, why are some people poor, why are some people wealthy? They say, actually, it’s a test from God. It’s a test from Allah.
And now all the Abrahamic religions say this. Now, fine, the principle of test is fine. But the important question is not here whether, why there is a test.
Say, if there is a question, an exam going on, and every student gets a different question paper. And some people get an easy paper, some people get a tough paper. So, the question is not why there is an exam.
The question is why there are different kinds of papers. Isn’t it? So, the second option is a capricious God. Capricious means, physical or arbitrary.
So, the capricious God, the idea what it makes is resentful of God only. Why resentful of God? Why is God doing this? Now, it’s God’s will. And God’s will is fine.
But if God’s will is not based on some rational basis, then how can we truly love our God? Where is justice? In fact, actually, because most people know only these two options. That either you have an arbitrary chance or you have a capricious God. People think that now this is a very intellectually unsatisfying understanding that God’s will.
There is no further understanding. And actually, this understanding drives people towards atheism. Because, you know, why should I believe in a God who is entirely arbitrary? Now, how do I know whether I am on his good side or his bad side? Because what he does is entirely arbitrary.
They say, no, no, no, in this life you can behave properly and then you will be delivered. But then, so what is their idea? Their idea is that God has only one life. God gives only one life.
And in this life, so I met one Christian. So, these Christians have the idea that, or not just call them Brahmins, they have the idea that anybody who is not following Jesus, they are pagans. Pagans means that they are not believers.
And they said, pagans are going to go to hell. And those who are teaching pagan faiths, they are going to go to hell first. They are going to go to hell first and fast.
That is their idea. So, he came and he started preaching to me. So, I started talking about thou shall not kill.
So, he said, hey, that doesn’t refer to the body. That doesn’t refer to animals. That refers only to the human beings.
He said, that is not said in the commandment over there. Then he realised that he doesn’t use his time wisely. He said, if you are really concerned about all the people, all the killing that is happening, then instead of bothering about the animals, why don’t you bother to stop the killing of the babies in the womb? Why don’t you stop abortion? I asked him.
So, you oppose abortion also. So, the Catholic Church will not oppose abortion. Some other churches allow it.
But he says, yes. So, then I asked him, say according to you, there is only one life. So, in that life, if a person comes and takes shelter of Jesus, then he is safe and he will remain eternal.
And if he doesn’t come to Jesus, then he will go to hell forever. So, then I asked him, what happens to the child in the womb he has aborted? That child never got a chance to take shelter of Jesus. He said, oh, because he is innocent, so Jesus will take him directly back to God.
Then I asked him, fine. And what is the role of life? It is to go back to God. He says, then why not abort everyone? Everyone will go back to God.
I said, no, no, that is not good. How can you abort everyone? Stop all abortion, not abort everyone. He said, no, see, if a person is not aborted, he will come out and he will be born.
And he may not take shelter of Jesus. So, then he will go to hell. So, by not aborting him, you are opening the door to hell for him.
But by aborting him, you are guaranteeing the path to heaven for him. So, now we accept it, we respect Jesus as a person and we respect that Jesus gave certain kind of revelation. But by no means is it a philosophically complete or intellectually satisfying revelation.
And this is not in any way to minimise it. It is just an objective observation. In the Bible, it is mostly stories are there.
Stories of what God’s people did when they escaped from Egypt to come to Israel and read the Old Testament. And New Testament is Jesus’ discourses, which are to ordinary common people and there is very little philosophy in it as such. So, this idea that if God has started our world only in a fixed way, that means if Jesus is the only way to God and this one life only God let me have, what about all the millions of people who will never get a chance to connect with Jesus? Then let me go to hell forever.
And who is responsible? Are they responsible or God responsible? God only put them in a place where they had no chance to take shelter of Jesus. There is no question of past action or past karma that makes all self-captivations. So, actually speaking, the Vedic understanding is, it is past life karma.
So, it is the past life karma that is responsible for where we are born. And this understanding is, first of all, it uses sensible understanding of, okay, why are there inequities in life? Because I have only done bad things in my life. And it also, it not only sort of, it can be reconciled with a just God, but it can also give us to some extent the keys to our destiny.
Because God is going to judge me based on my actions. So, the first option, actually everything is by chance only. So, there is really not much that we can do about it.
The second option, there is God who just rigs the match, who fixes the match right in the beginning. But we understand that it is like, there have been previous innings and in that innings, we have scored, some people have scored more, some people have scored less. And actually speaking, this understanding of past life karma, it creates so much harmony.
See, some people are more inclusive than me. Why are they more inclusive? Because they did some good karma in their previous life. Some people are more spiritually advanced than me.
Why is that? Because they did more kundalini sadhana in their previous life. So, the idea of chance, it just makes life into a perpetual fight. It is like what Arvind’s idea of jungle, survival for existence.
All of us here, we are competing and some people come out victorious, some people come out victorious. And the idea of the capricious God that divides the world into material haves and have-nots. It polarises, polarises means calculus, divides the world into material, some people have talents, they will be successful and some people do not have talents and they will be unsuccessful.
The idea of a capricious God divides the world into not just material, material and spiritual haves and have-nots. Some people have the opportunity to go back to God, some people do not have the opportunity to go back to God. Whereas, the answer to past life karma, it is that there is a just God, there is, we have the key to our destiny and it shows the world is like a university.
That means, see, if somebody is more advanced than me, all that it means is he is like a graduate student and I am like a higher secondary class student. So, it is not that I have to be envious of him, he has already passed the journey that I have gone, that I am right now only. So, if we see those who are higher than us, rather than feel envious, we appreciate they have also gone through the struggle that I have gone through and they have succeeded.
So, if I also continue on my path, I will also come to that level and if some people are lower to us, we understand that actually they are struggling now, I also have to struggle sometime like this. So, let me offer them a helping hand. So, actually the reincarnationist worldview transforms the world into a university and that helps us to develop a cooperative vision instead of a competitive vision of life.
So, both these, they create a competitive vision, whereas the reincarnationist worldview creates a cooperative vision. Any questions about this? Even in the eternal spiritual realm, there is no point when the soul comes into existence. The soul is eternal.
So, in that sense, just like the sun and the sun rays are co-existent always. So, similarly, the Atma is also eternal. So, it is not.
Now, for this point of view of conveying the dependence of the soul on God, we may say God is the source of all the souls. But even the word that I use is Janmahadi, it is more of Kriya, it is not about Tattva. What it is saying is Janmahadi Asthyataha, that means Janmahadi, that creation, mental destruction, that absolute source of all that.
Not exactly saying that all the Tattvas of existence, He has the source. Now, Krishna says Aham Sarvasya Prabhavo, that is fine. So, what this conveys, if you see Krishna says Aham Sarvasya Prabhavo, that is 10.8. But in 15.7, He says, Amahivahamsya Jeeva Dauke Jeeva Gupta Sanatana, eternal parts of me.
So, eternal just doesn’t mean after liberation, we have to say eternal part, but before also we have eternal parts. So, the idea of God being the source is used primarily to convey that we are dependent on Him. It’s not that there was a time when God decided, I will create you.
Now, for example, it is said that Krishna desired to understand what is the love of Radharani. And therefore, He took on the form of Lord Chaitanya. Now, when we say like this, does it mean that there’s a time when Lord Chaitanya was not existing? No, actually, when this is being told, it is this sort of Eko Bhavasyam.
This is told in a philosophical sense, not in a time denotational sense. What is the difference between a philosophical sense and a time denotational sense? When we say we come from Krishna, so it is not in a time denotational sense because we are also eternal. It is in a philosophical sense, conveys our eternal dependence on Krishna, conveys our eternal dependence on Krishna.
So, for the purpose of our understanding, sometimes that which is beyond the realm of time may be conveyed through the medium of chronology. But in the spiritual realm, actually existence is beyond time and that’s why we can’t understand it. So, sometimes in a chronological sense it is said, but it is in a philosophical sense primarily.
When there are calamities in devotee’s life, should we see them as karma or should we see them as time? It is certainly this time. At the same time, when we say that we cannot understand it, then the great people cannot understand the plan of the Lord himself. So, actually speaking, at one level, it is our own karma coming to us.
By the same time, we are in Krishna’s hands. So, Krishna arranges our karma in such a way that it will disentangle us from existence. It disentangles from existence.
So, Prabhupada clearly says that devotee’s suffering is in one sense the arrangement of Krishna. The arrangement of Krishna doesn’t mean that Krishna is specially created and suffering forever. No, whatever suffering was due from the karma, Krishna arranges it in such a way that the devotee can get purified from their suffering.
The devotee can come closer to him. So, in general, if the suffering comes to us, we should think that, yes, I have done so much sinful karma, I should stop the sinful karma. If it comes to others, there is some special arrangement going on between us and Krishna, between that person and Krishna.
So, based on our past karma, is this the next life or many future lives are decided? It depends on the different kinds of karma. The karma that we do are like seeds. And in nature also we see that different seeds grow after different times.
Some seeds like grains may grow in 50 months, say mango seed may take 10 years to grow. Some other eucalyptus may take 80-90 years also. So, like that, different karmas practise after different time durations.
And specific karmas sometimes require specific conditions for their maturity, naturalisation, for their maturity. So, that’s why it will be much more than one lifetime. At the end of the Mahabharata war, this is a Lokakatha that comes along, which is associated with the life of Dhritarashtra.
Dhritarashtra asked Krishna, no, I had 100 sons. Why did all 100 of my sons die? So, Dhritarashtra was told by Lord Krishna that 50 lifetimes ago you were a hunter. And as a hunter, you went to hunt and you couldn’t catch the birds, the he-bird and the she-bird were watching.
So, in a state of rage, you went and destroyed savagely their nest. And in the nest there were 100 bird nests. And you killed all the 100 birdlings there in one of them.
And because you caused the she-bird and the he-bird to suffer the agony of witnessing the death of their 100 sons, so you had to suffer the agony of losing your 100 sons. So, Dhritarashtra became defensive after that. And then he asked Krishna, if I had done that 50 lifetimes ago, then why is the reaction coming after 50 lifetimes? So, Krishna said, for you to get 100 sons in one life, you have to do punya for 50 lives.
So, after you did punya for 50 lives, then you could have 100 sons in one lifetime and then that reaction could come to you. That’s why 4.70 says, Gana Karma Navagati. Inexplicable are the ways in which karma progresses.
So, the basic principle you understand is for every action there will be a reaction. And in general, we don’t have to go into too much analysis. For example, if I, on a cold night, take say 10 ice creams, then what will happen? Next one I’ll be like, ice cream, isn’t it? I’ll start screaming.
Now, was that because of the past life karma? Privacy means karma. Isn’t it? So, we don’t have to go too much into analysis of karma, but in general, we see a cause effect connection even in this life. So, in general, certain karmic reactions come immediately.
Now, some people start smoking and nothing happens to them. That is because they may have a tough body based on say their past life karma. See, in general, you will see a correlation between smoking and say getting lung diseases.
But in some cases, what may happen is that some people may smoke and still not get lung diseases. That’s because that person has done good karma in his previous life by which that person is in a sense guaranteed a healthy body in this life, whatever he does. On the other hand, some people may not do any smoking and still get lung diseases.
That indicates that they had done some karma in the past life by which they were meant to have a sickly body. So, there can be exceptions, but in general, we can see correlation between cause and effect in this life also. But which effect is coming from which cause, unless we can see it, a one-to-one correlation, it’s difficult for us to determine that.
Yes, somebody may have certain karmas that are supposed to fulfil in future lives. So, Krishna will take care of that. That’s why sometimes some devotees may get some painful diseases.
So, what the devotee feels is whatever karma you are supposed to suffer for the same lifetime, it’s all coming now. Krishna is exhausting. What is coming is just a sample.
But Krishna has assured us that it can be finished in one lifetime. So, Krishna can burn up that karma completely or he may burn it up mostly and give us some sample, whatever. Okay.
Yes, last question, then we move forward. If we enjoy good comforts in bhakti, are they exhausting our good karma or we don’t have to bother in bhakti? In general, we should see two things, a friend with us in comforts, whether they are useful for our service to Krishna and what are the effects of those on our consciousness. They are not affecting our consciousness in a negative way and if they are used to the service of Krishna, then we can use them.
So, as devotees, we, Prabhupada did not emphasise too much about the karmic aspect. Prabhupada said that Anupulya Sankalpa to be the Sivajana. So, if we can use it to Krishna’s service, surely we can use it.
And if we find that that is affecting our consciousness, we are not even using it properly in Krishna’s service. So, for example, we may have opulent food. Now, we don’t have to bother.
It’s prasad. It’s not going to in any way affect us. But sometimes, we get too obsessed with prasad or we eat too much prasad.
Then we may want to regulate some things. But similarly, we may have some other comforts which may come in our life. So, especially in brahmachari life, we are not pursuing the comforts.
Whatever comes along, we use it in Krishna’s service. So, we don’t have to bother too much. We have some specific comforts in mind when we are asking this question.
So, by taking favours from others, are we wasting our good karma? I think if we go into that analysis, we will end up paralysis by analysis. We can say there’s a joke. If I laugh, what is happening? Am I exhausting my good karma? So, certainly, different Vaishnavas have different approaches to bhakti.
And we can respect them. And we have to see what is undergone to us. So, in general, what we see is how best we can serve Krishna.
So, of course, one thing about day sleep is that sometimes that’s a luxury. So, in general, we try to ensure that we don’t become lazy while we are brahmacharis. So, it’s good if we have a lot of services and we are surrounded by devotees who are working hard for Krishna also.
So, in principle, day sleep is not wrong if we have not got sufficient night’s sleep. Then sometimes because our waking time is fixed, we wake up early in the morning. So, it may be required.
But in general, we should ensure that whatever is the body needs, 36 hours or whatever, that shouldn’t get exceeded on a regular basis. Then, of course, we can be grateful that we don’t have to go into struggle for existence, which is there out there. One thing that happens in brahmachari life is the whole struggle for existence at an external level gets removed.
It becomes much more internal. And internal is copable. If we take shelter of Krishna, it’s much more easily copable.
But external struggle for existence gets minimised a lot. That’s a big advantage. Let’s move forward.
So, now, Krishna will, in one sense, cap these teachings with a rhetorical question. Vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ nityena majam avyayam kathāṁsapurushāpārtha gaṁ ghātayati hantikam So, to Veda, avināśinaṁ. Veda means to know.
One who knows that the ātmā is avināśinaṁ, how long does he know it? Nityaṁ. He always knows it. So, the word nityaṁ can apply as an adjective to the ātmā here, or it can apply to Veda.
So, different ājāryas have used it for different ones. So, because avināśi and nitya, in one sense, are the same. So, ājama upayam is also coming.
One who always keeps in mind that the soul is indestructible, is unborn, is imperishable. So, then kathāṁsapurushāpārtha, how can such a person either kill or be killed? gaṁ ghātayati hantikam. It’s a rhetorical question.
So, at this point, Arjuna gets a question. Okay, the soul is not going to be destroyed, but doesn’t the destruction of the body cause pain? What exactly is the relationship between the soul and the body? Till now I understood body is temporary, soul is eternal. But doesn’t the loss of the body cause trauma and pain to the soul? So, Krishna now talks about the relationship of the body and the soul in the next verse.
Outvaya means, okay, outvaya means it doesn’t perish. So, our uvvaya means to decay, to deteriorate. So, outvaya means it doesn’t deteriorate.
So, again, it’s like ājama means it does not have a beginning, and avvaya means it doesn’t have a deterioration. Sri Prabhupada explains that repetition of a point is used to bring clarity. And those verses, if you look at that verse, several times it’s coming.
Hanyate hanyamāna is also coming. Purāṇa is also there. Purāṇa means also very old.
Purā abhinava, purāṇa it is said. Although it’s old, the soul is youthful in its energy, in its freshness. So, it’s repetition.
Then we have significant repetition over here. So, Krishna describes the relationship between the body and believing his dress, discarding the old dress and taking on a new dress. So, like that, the soul gives up the old body and takes up a new body.
Now, in one sense, this is a very objective and unemotional metaphor, in the sense that for the soul, because it’s very attached to the body, it’s a traumatic experience. But to convey things in a philosophical mode, just like we gave you the example, you have a car, you leave the car, you take another car. But there is a person attached to a car, he doesn’t want to leave the car, there will be pain.
But essentially, it is a process that is involving two distinct entities separately from each other. I and my dress are different. Similarly, I and my soul are different.
We just leave and go apart. Anyāni sanyāti, one will take a new body after that. So, this concept of the body just being like a dress is something which the Prabhupāda would repeatedly emphasise in his teachings.
So, the body being like a dress indicates that it is superficial to our actual identity. Again, in the Abrahamic religions, somehow they have the idea that the body and the soul are one. There is a soul and there is a body.
That’s why they have the whole concept of resurrection. That’s why they preserve the body. And they have the idea that actually the body will be revived as it is.
And just like Jesus was resurrected, Jesus came back in his body. That’s what they have understood. Similarly, people will be resurrected.
Now, this has a lot of complications, even from the logical point of view. Because if we preserve the body, even if we preserve the body, the body is not going to be preserved. And it is possible, at least conceivably.
Let’s say there was a person, X, who lived at one particular time. All the chemicals that made his body, all the atoms, they merged into the elements. And those elements, those same atoms have now made the body Y. And Y dies.
So, now with the same body, you will be resurrected. The elements were in X’s body and whose body will they make up? It’s very difficult to say. Another point is that, if somebody was 80 years old and he dies, his body was 80 years old.
So, will he get an 80-year-old body for all of eternity? Eternity will become eternal agony for him. Eternal misery. And then somebody says, no, no, you will get a youthful body.
But what about somebody who died as a baby? He never had a youthful body. So, what is the point in preserving that body? You are preserving a two-year-old body, but what is going to get a youthful body which you never had? So, the idea is actually quite superficial when examined seriously. So, the fundamental difference, although I said we talk about the soul and other religions also, this is a radical difference between body and the soul.
The body and the soul are entirely different. And their contact is just through the desire to enjoy. And the past karma in the soul has done.
So, when we understand this, then we understand that actually I am going to the soul in lifetimes. But it’s all temporary. And there’s nothing that I really have in connection with the body.
So, this is a radical illustration of that. And then Krishna will tell further. So, Krishna is using the method of 90-90 for the jnanis over here.
So, he will talk about how the soul is indestructible. So, Prabhupada poses for Samana Riksha Purush on him over here to explain how there are two souls in the body. So, how do you get the next dress after this dress? That will be determined.
The super soul is there with us. And he will determine it. So, here, generally speaking, among the five gross elements, we humans have access to only the first four.
And the first four can be used as agents for destruction. That means if a weapon enters into the body, it can destroy the body. Or if somebody gets it drowned, it can destroy the burning and destroy the body.
Excessive breathing, that can also disrupt the body. Now, how do you take control of ether and then destroy somebody? We can’t conceive that. So, now, sound mantras are used generally to empower the gross enemies.
That means in a Brahmastra shot, there is actually a physical arrow. The mantra empowers the physical arrow to do extraordinary things. So, in general, destruction happens to these four elements, earth, water, fire, air.
So, Krishna is saying, none of these four elements can destroy. In 2.17, so Ramacharya, because he is in the mode of refuting the Mayavadi understanding. So, he gives a fascinating analysis of that verse.
And he says that this sarvam, what is the sarvam? The context over here is indestructibility. Let’s go to that verse so that you understand. It’s a little technical discussion.
So, the soul is known as soul to be indestructible because it pervades everything and therefore nobody can destroy. So, it pervades everything. What has that got to do with indestructibility? So, he says that actually when one object destroys another object, it is by penetrating that object.
Arrow penetrates into my body. Poison enters into my body. When even fire destroys, actually fire enters into our body.
Water, wind, wind also goes inside the body and shatters it up. So, one object destroys another object by entering into it. But the atma is so subtle that it enters into everything and nothing can enter into it.
Because it is subtler than everything else, nothing can enter into it and therefore it is indestructible by everything else. So, he says here sarvam refers to all the material elements. None of the material elements can pervade the soul because the soul pervades all the material elements and that’s why the atma is indestructible.
So, here I’ve been describing this that no, no. So, Arjuna is fearful. But okay, you say that the body is like a dress and the soul is like the person.
But then when the body is destroyed, will the soul not be destroyed? No. Actually, all these things will destroy the body but they don’t destroy the soul. So, Krishna describes here in terms of actions and in the next verse, he will reiterate that in terms of qualities of the soul.
Here he says that this is not destroyed, it is not destroyed. Why? Because he says the soul has certain characteristics. So, the first two lines describe the four characteristics which make the soul indestructible.
So, earth, water, fire, air. These cannot destroy. Now, does the word sarvagata support the Mayavadi ideas all pervading? It might, but if you look at the full context, what is being said over here is the focus is primarily on the soul and Arjuna and Krishna are always talking in terms of duality, you and I. How can he be the killer or the killed? Sarvagata, if you look at it from that point of view, actually Prabhupada gives a translation that it is capable of going everywhere.
It is capable of going everywhere. That means Prabhupada is able to say that there is life on other planets also and the soul can exist in various material environments and this is logical because different material environments will have different conditions of earth, water, fire, air. But because the soul is not destroyed by any of these conditions, so that therefore sarvagata, the soul will be capable of existing everywhere.
Sarvagata refers to the lord who is all pervading. Gata means to be dependent on. The soul is always dependent on the supreme lord.
And achala means immunable. So, what is this achala? How can the soul be immovable? Now, actually the Bhagavad Gita says that, say, so here achala means that the soul cannot be moved by any material means. The soul cannot be moved by any material means.
The soul is moved by its own will, by its own desire. When the Yamadutas come and they catch the soul, they drag it, actually they cannot catch the soul. The Yamapash catches the subtle body and drags the subtle body.
And because the soul is so attached to the subtle body, the soul won’t move it. Just like say, as in the example of a TV, a person is watching the TV. He is absorbed watching a cricket match and a thief comes and steals the TV.
He is so busy watching, he keeps watching the TV. Just like that. So, the Yamadutas come and catch this subtle body and the soul goes with it.
So, achala means the soul cannot be moved by anything material, it’s only by its own desire. And sanatana is eternally existing. So, now I will explain sthanu in the next verse when we talk about avikaryayam.
Basically, unchangeable and avikarya refer to that the soul does not undergo this exchange, the body undergoes. See, this whole section has to be understood in the context that Krishna is contrasting the characteristics of the body and the soul. So, the body undergoes this transformation, the soul does not undergo this transformation.
So, avyakto means unmanifest. So, here avyakta refers to that it’s not conceivable by our senses. Achinchayam means it’s not conceivable by our mind also.
So, generally we have these two ways of acquirement, bhaktyaksha and anumaya. So, bhaktyaksha, can I see it in my senses? No. In the microscope, I cannot see it.
Now, one of the fundamental problems because of which mainstream science is not able to accept the soul is that they ask the question, how will the soul interact with the body? So, the soul is spiritual, the body is material. How can something spiritual influence something material? Because their idea is that material objects act by material causes. You see, if this is moving, it moves because a material force acts on it.
So, how can spirit influence matter and matter influence spirit? They can’t understand it. So, actually our understanding is the super soul makes the arrangement for that. The super soul about matter and spirit makes the arrangement for that.
But achinchayam, with our own intelligence, we can’t conceive it with our own speculation. So, Prabhupada explains that the soul has to be understood properly, it has to be understood through scripture. So, achinchayam doesn’t mean that, okay, this is achinchayam and I am not doing chintam of the soul only.
I am going to do it materialistically. That’s not the point. We cannot use our speculation to understand it fully.
But surely by our reasoning, we can get an indication. We can get an indication. That means, just like I had told earlier, by our influence, we can understand God exists.
But by our influence, we cannot understand that God is a blue cowherd boy playing with me. From that view, it is a scriptural revelation. Similarly, by our influence, we can understand that there is some eternal source of consciousness.
But whether the eternal source of consciousness is a gopa or a gopi or a cow or whatever spiritual world, that we can’t know. From that, it is avikarya uchchate. So, now Krishna will be uchchate.
Uchchate means he is saying there are previous authorities who say the same thing. I am repeating. Uchchate, they say like this.
And knowing this, the smadevam means by now, therefore do not lament. So, here Krishna completes the section and then he says, we will go to the next section and we will talk from the point of view of those who don’t believe in the soul. Even if you think you are the body, still, you should fight.
So, we will discuss that tomorrow. Thank you very much.