Gita Study Pune 2013 – 11.28-46 The Frightening Virat Rupa – Kala Rupa

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So let’s continue in the afternoon class. So we’ll continue with the 11th chapter.
We’ve come a little less than half way, right? So this is 55 verses, so hopefully we should be able to complete this chapter today. So we have come, we were discussing about God as the destroyer. And then we have been discussing about the regime in the battlefield which Arjuna is having.
Founding in the Duryodhana. So after describing how various warriors are being destroyed, then there is a subtle but vital distinction that is made between the way various warriors are destroyed. So let’s look at these two examples.
And then the prominent Vaishnavacharya and Hrishisantradaya, Vedanta Ishita. So in his Gita commentary, he gives a very beautiful illumination of these two verses, 20, 10, 29. So we’ll discuss that.
विशंतिवत्राण्यभिविज्ञलंति So, विधानदिनां भहवांभुवेगा So just like the river, विधानदिनां भहवांभुवेगा अंभु is water, the flow of water, समुद्रमेवा विभुखानत्रवन्ति So just as towards the ocean, the water in the river flows. Similarly, तथातवामि And to you, नरलोकवेया So these people are referred to in a very positive sense as the heroes among human beings. विशंतिवत्राण्यभिविज्ञलंति They are entering into your mouth.
What is the nature of the word? अभिविज्ञलंति The mouth is burning. So, this is the first example. This is rivers entering into the ocean.
Similarly, the warriors are entering into your mouth. This is the next example. Let me discuss.
तथातवामि विधानदिनां भहवांभुवेगा प्रदीप्तं जलनं पतंग्ला विशंति नाशाय संरिद्धवेगा तहिंदि नाशाय विश्णृति लोकास थवापिवत्राण्य संरिद्धवेगा So, निथा प्रदीप्तं जलनं पतंग्ला प्रदीप् plays like a lamp. So, this is a blazing lamp. पतंग्ला the moths get attracted to it.
Vishanti Nashaya. So, here the word Samruddha is used in the form of like Vyad studies, sarcastic. Samruddha is prosperity, prosperous.
So, they are prosperous with speedy. Samruddha Vedaha. So, they are speedily rushing towards their death.
So, similarly Pathaiva Nashaya Vishanti Rupas. Similarly, these people are entering into Nashaya. So, here we see that these people, there is no positive reference to them.
People in 28, the reference was of Naralo Kabira, the positive reference. But here, there is no such positive reference directly to them. So, I will paraphrase what he says.
So, Ganga Vidya Vishuddhi is a part of what Vedan Deshika has said. Vedan Deshika is known as Tarka Acharya, which is after Ramanacharya. There were prominent divisions that happened in the Rishi Sampradaya, Vadagalaya and Tengalaya.
So, their leaders were Eli Lokacharya and Vedan Deshika. So, river ocean and here there is moth fire. So, what are the obvious differences that come to your mind? Living and non-living.
Slightly more, this is sort of natural, whereas this is voluntary. Isn’t it? That means the moth doesn’t have to enter into fire. But the moth voluntarily chooses to enter into fire.
Whereas the river naturally flows towards the ocean. So, this refers to say warriors like Bhishma. They were not evil minded, but by the nature, they were trapped in a war which they did not want to fight, on a side which they did not support and they met their destruction.
Whereas Duryodhana, he deliberately and obstinately fought the war. So, that is the difference that one is within the natural course of nature, whereas the other is by one’s voluntary misuse of free will. Second is that when the river flows towards the ocean, the river doesn’t change its nature.
It means the river is made of water and the water continues to exist. Whereas when the moth enters into the fire, the moth gets destroyed. So, Vedan Deshika uses this.
These are the two kinds of people, the devotees and the non-devotees. Sometimes people say, what is the big deal you talk about practising devotional service? You die, the non-devotees die. What is the big difference? Everybody has to die.
But when the devotees are living, when they die, actually after dying they continue what they are doing. The nature doesn’t change. They are practising devotional service in this life, they will continue their devotional service in the next life.
Whereas for materialistic people, death is end. Death means everything is destroyed. We are left with practically all the things and all the people and all the work that we have done.
We lose all of it, so everything gets destroyed. So, the moth gets completely destroyed. And then another focality is that when the river moves towards the ocean, so it does good to all who are on its banks.
The river is flowing, the water, it irrigates the land which is adjacent to its banks and it provides water and it nourishes. So, the moth when it goes to the fire, it does no good to anyone. It does neither good to itself nor to anyone else.
Similarly, when the devotees, they are going to go through the life course and they are going to die. But while they are alive, they do good to the world. So, in this way, although the end result may seem to be the same for a devotee and a non-devotee, but actually there is a huge amount of difference.
So, the difference is in terms of what happens after death and what happens while living. And that’s why, although the previous verse talked about God as the destroyer or as death coming as the ultimate reality of life, that is true. But there is a huge difference between how devotees meet death and non-devotees meet death.
Non-devotees go to all extremes to try to avoid the reality of death. You know, in ancient Greece, there were a wide variety of philosophers. There were some who were like Socrates, who believed in the soul.
Socrates had many dialogues with his friends. So, one of his dialogues was Phaedrus. So, in Phaedrus, there is a description of how when his friend’s wife dies, then while consoling him, he gives a series of arguments talking about the immortality of the soul, the indestructibility of the soul.
It’s almost similar to the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. So, there were philosophers like him and there were others who were called Epicureans. Epicureans were people who were just interested in sense gratification, nothing else.
So, one of those Epicurean thinkers, he said, death will never happen to me. Because when I am there, death is not there. When death will be there, I will not be there.
So, one may do words of a lady like that, but one cannot avoid the reality of death. And not only can you not avoid the reality of death, you cannot even avoid the tangibility that has to be there in the process that will depend on how much you are attached. In the extreme case, you cannot do that, actually.
In the extreme case. So, even this word, in the description, the tal rupa is there and then destruction is described. So, let us bring out this difference between how and what is done.
That is a very important and significant difference. So, this world, in a sense, is a transitional place. If you go to an airport, there is a waiting area before your flight.
So, in the waiting area, there are different people who are there. But all the people at that place may seem to be the same. If you’re looking just from the waiting area point of view, some people live and other people also live in there.
But what is important is where they are. This world is like a waiting area and all of us, different people catch different flights. And those different flights may be different destinations.
We can’t get a complete picture just by looking at the world. If we isolate this world from the rest of the reality, then we get quite a fragmented and victorious, which is in the sense, it is an inaccurate view of reality. So, when we see reality as a continuum of many lifetimes, then we understand what is actually happening in the world.
So, now, after describing this, how lord’s attitude, we see that for devotees, Krishna comes and says that, there’s no such Krishna. So, here, how lord can be at least, apparently, equally female kind of a person. He’s crushing the skulls and everything.
Although devotees, of course, end result is that devotees are, they are necessarily there, but at least to lord’s attitude, or when devotees die, and when non-devotees die at the same time, if there is some intermediate cause for, and that intermediate can be fluid for devotees and non-devotees, but when lord is personally there, something can be easily done at that time. So, how more positive are the Tharva and Pandavas, of their source, where Pandavas and Lord is, they are both entering into the mountain and they were both getting destroyed. So, is the lord fluid to the devotees as well as non-devotees? See, in the Vedic culture, I was talking in the morning about the difference between the understanding of reconciling the evil of this world with the goodness of God.
So, the difference, the central difference between the understanding of the Abrahamic religions and the understanding of the Vedic traditions, not that there is no intermediate agent, there is very much an intermediate agent. So, in our understanding, the intermediate agent between the world and God, it is not a Satan who is inimical to God, but it is Maya, who is servant of God. So, now, for example, we may say that, we have a small temptation and Maya just catches on the temptation and drags us down.
So, we often say Maya is cruel, Maya is merciless, or we may say that it is a war and we can die on that. So, now, is Maya’s cruelty ultimately not Krishna’s cruelty? Because Krishna is in the control of Maya also. So, if say, a devotee gets tempted, he falls away.
We can talk about spiritual path, or even sometimes devotees die in accident, sometimes they die in cruel ways. Then, is this, this is the cruel, so we generally say Krishna is merciless, but Maya is cruel. So, can we really differentiate between the two? Because Maya is also the servant of Krishna.
So, the differentiation is there because neither Krishna nor Maya have any personal vendetta against us. Krishna doesn’t have any vendetta, nor does Maya have any vendetta against us. Actually, there are simply laws there in this world, according to which things are acting.
And, as per those laws, certain actions provide certain fruits and certain reactions. So, it’s not that Krishna is personally being cruel to anyone. So, as devotees, where it is unaccountable, we will see everything as Krishna’s actions.
But, whether that is real, or that is just our conception. For example, now, like one devotee on my website, he asked me a question. Now, that whenever I see that I don’t chant nicely, when I’m going to my office, my car breaks down.
So, is it because I’m chanting attentively, Krishna is causing my car to break down? I don’t think we should go around making this kind of correlations. You know, what I would prefer, probably what I would say is that, yeah, actually, it happens many times, if we don’t chant nicely, then our day, things don’t go well in that way. But, it’s more because, if we don’t chant nicely, we are not situated in sattva guna.
We are more in rajo guna, and we don’t think properly, clearly. We speak insensitively, or act thoughtlessly, and then we make mistakes. It’s not that Krishna is fault-finding God, waiting to see what mistakes we have done, and immediately giving us reactions.
So, that sort of vision, where we see Krishna as acting in everything in the world, if we can draw some devotional lessons from it, it is okay. But whether it is Krishna personally acting over there, then immediately, how can I really know about that? Now, for example, if I’m giving a class, and in the middle of the class, I forget something. It will be very embarrassing for me.
So, now, if that helps me to become humble, I think, you know, actually, that ultimately, all knowledge comes from Krishna. That is possible. But is it really that Krishna caused further foolishness at that time? Or it could very well be that, I was so over-confident, that I thought that there’s no need for revision, I can remember everything.
So, you know, as far as seeing Krishna’s reciprocation in our life, we may think of it as a nice devotional thing to do, which is fine. But often, that can go into a zone, where we may start becoming fearful of Krishna. It’s not that Krishna is causing problems in our life.
That’s very, very clear. If some problems are happening, like if my car is breaking down, or if my computer is breaking down, it’s not that Krishna has got something against me because of his problem with my computer. It is simply that I’m middle-minded, actually.
Now, through the actions of middle-mind, say, Krishna may teach me something. That is Krishna’s expertise. That is Krishna’s expertise, and it will be recognised.
But it is not that Krishna is causing those things. So, let me differentiate this in a more analytical way. There is that incident when Prabhupada was giving a class, and suddenly, some person got up and started shouting at Prabhupada, like this, and that, and he went.
The devotees were waiting, and Prabhupada would chastise them or something, and they would either remove the person from the hall or something. And Prabhupada just silently heard him. And then after that, the devotee asked his brother, and what he told the devotee, he asked his brother, Prabhupada, why did you do that? He said, I don’t know.
Krishna allowed it, so he just said it. So, now, this is one example, where Prabhupada is submissive almost, except if somebody used blasphemy. On the other hand, we see another situation, where, you know, this is in the Delhi Pandhar programme, Jyoti came along, and started challenging Prabhupada.
And Prabhupada actually called him on the stage and had a debate with him. And then Prabhupada said, don’t think that, afterward, he took the lesson from the debate that, don’t think that a devotee doesn’t get angry. A devotee only loves Krishna, and he values Krishna’s service.
A devotee who is with Krishna, he may even become angry. So, the point which I’m making over here is, you know, that we can’t really go into the zone of imagining, that Krishna is causing certain things in my life. What is happening is, through everything that happens, I can learn lessons by which I can go closer towards Krishna.
And we can say that, if something takes me closer to Krishna, it is Krishna giving me the intelligence to go closer to him. But, is it Krishna who is causing that? Why don’t we show that our karmic reactions are personal? Krishna is not a malevolent God who is out to bring suffering upon us. So, Krishna, even when we say that, we generally, when we say that, for a devotee, Krishna takes Ahamkamsa and Vaprastha, what does it mean? Krishna takes our Karana, and He doesn’t allow it to act in normal way.
He lets it act upon us in a way that will disentangle us from material existence. So, it’s not that Krishna causes our suffering. This is a very important point I want to say.
So, how the cruelty is there, so, some devotees, they die in a very graceful way, surrounded by other devotees doing great things. And some other devotees may die in a, you know, not comparable, actually might be there, but they will be called like, unparalleled or something like that. These things, which are there as a part of material nature, their duality, are there in material nature.
At an external level, they will affect devotees also. Any affect devotees. Devotees want to get cancer and die, for instance.
So, these things which happen at a material level, it’s not necessary to say that, to expect that Krishna will not let this happen. Nor is it necessary to claim that it is Krishna who is causing all this. What it is? It is actually our own reactions coming to us.
But, by the grace of Krishna consciousness, by the grace of Krishna, through which, he enables us to use those events and come closer to him. And he may use those events to help others also to come closer to him. So, is this what I am trying to say? And this, I have seen in different devotees, in different schools, have different understandings.
But generally, at least, we in Back to Godhead, we never publish any article. We have several of the Shastri colleges and policy members and the Back to Godhead committee also. So, we never publish any article where the idea is that Krishna is causing our suffering.
Krishna is not that kind of God who will cause us. So, there is a difference between these two statements. That through some suffering, I learn some lesson which takes me closer to Krishna.
And in that sense, that suffering brought me closer to Krishna also, I can say. But it is not Krishna who caused my suffering. What caused my suffering? It is my own past karma.
And Krishna used that karma, maybe Krishna arranged that suffering to come to me in such a situation, in such a way that… Like, I’ll give you an example. I mean, very simple, personal. Actually, when I had that fracture and I suffered, it was quite painful.
And my life also changed. But afterwards, I really thought about it. I was able to write more and I was able to do researches.
If the same karmic reaction had come to me some other way, if I had lost my eyes, or lost my speech, or lost my ears, or lost my hands, my service would have been affected in a far more damaging way. I’m not able to read or speak or hear or type on a computer. So, what I saw is that when a karmic reaction had to come, it came in a way that was the least damaging to the situation.
Or my service to Krishna. Most of my service was still able to go on. So, in a sense, whatever that fracture happened, that was quite a loophole for me.
But still, you know, I can’t say that Krishna caused that fracture. You know, that was my own karma which caused that fracture. But somehow, by Krishna’s grace, by the association with Krishna.
So, I was able to see how that could continue to influence Krishna. Now, things could have been worse also. But it didn’t strike me that Krishna was talking about Krishna.
I mean, it was very difficult for us to, you know, be, sort of, have a positive attitude towards Krishna. To not be resentful or fearful of Krishna. So, in one of his articles, he says, that there was one family in the Jewish tradition.
They had this day, one day which is called, fast day, sabbat. They fast on that. They don’t do any work, and they fast on that.
So, they didn’t fast on that. And then, the next day or the day after that, the daughter in that family, she died in that city. And then, the family members thought that, oh, because we did not fast on that day, so God arranged for our daughter to be killed.
And then, they said, you know, why not? He is not fasting, such a liar thing that, ah, somebody should be killed for that. And then, they say, there is a throttled feeling. On one side, you want to protest, but you are afraid if you protest, God may punish in a bigger way also.
So, if we have that attitude, it is very, very difficult to actually have a devotional attitude of gratitude and seeking grace from God. So, we can’t at all think of it as Krishna causing our suffering or Krishna not removing our sufferings. Sufferings come by our own past karma, actually.
And Krishna’s grace, what we can expect, sometimes we, we ourselves don’t know what all sufferings Krishna may have removed, what all karmic reactions he may have had, and what he has removed from us. But what we can expect is, if we surrender to Krishna, then even when the sufferings come, we will find some way by which we will be able to go closer to God. Yes, sir.
Yes, that you are saying, even if suffering comes, you have reduced it. That is what we see. So, that means in one sense, it’s actually Krishna giving, like what we say that for a pure devotee, Krishna arranges suffering for glorifying them.
And for a sadhaka, he arranges suffering for purifying them. So, is that wrong? Okay. Because otherwise, for pure devotees, what like Arjuna and all, what kind of suffering is there? Correct.
Good question. So, what about pure devotees suffering? Isn’t that arranged by Krishna for glorifying them? Yes. I don’t think we should include pure devotees in the discussion of sadhakas.
Certainly, pure devotees are at a different level. And often, their faith does not challenge you in the suffering. Because for them, Krishna is a reality.
Krishna is actually a reality for them. It’s not that it’s something, Krishna is not someone whom they will realise in the future. That’s why the question of doubt is not there for them.
Because Krishna is a right now experienced reality. But for us, most of us, we will be experiencing Krishna as a reality in the future. We have some experience of Krishna.
But not that much. So, I think we are talking right now about sadhakas. And sadhakas, it is not that Krishna calls them.
Correct. So, Krishna arranges through maya also means that actually, it is our own karma coming to us. But Krishna arranges for it to come in such a way that it will draw us closer to him.
So, that means, the way the suffering comes, that is arranged by Krishna. The cause of the suffering is not Krishna. Is it clear the difference between the two? What about sufferings? Sometimes we say they are coming due to Vaishnav aparads.
It’s possible. There are certainly examples in the scriptures where some devotees do suffer. Some devotees get some diseases because of some Vaishnav aparad.
And they suffer quite bad because of that. But in general, at our level, if we start imagining that way, I mean, I’m not saying it’s not necessarily true. But if you start imagining that way, it can just, it can become very, very statistically speculative thing.
Statistically speculative means, see, for example, if say, I get a disease, should I have offended some devotee because of that I got a disease? I mean, our whole Vaishnav relationship will become permeated with paranoia then. Paranoia is always fearful. Certainly, we don’t want to commit offences to anyone.
But it’s not that if we start thinking that if I offend somebody, I’m going to get a disease. If we start circulating that idea, people will think, but let me stay away from devotees only. Then I’ll not offend anyone.
Isn’t it? So the point is, we don’t want to permeate Vaishnav society with the undercurrent of fear. Isn’t it? But if I commit offences, some reaction will come. Generally speaking, is when the scriptures give example, they are examples of extreme offences and extreme reactions.
Just like say, Haridas Chhota Haridas punishment. That is an extreme example to illustrate a particular point. So, but in general, the reaction of offences may come to us in the form of say, So, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.
Okay. Yeah, just a minute. Let me complete this.
So, generally we may lose our taste in chanting or we may feel some material desires rising again or we may feel lack of rasa in our relationships. That way the reactions may come. So if we can find out, okay, I did this wrong and let me set it right.
So we should surely be introspective to check what we did wrong and how we can set it right. But to try to correlate, if you try to correlate it with, like, you know, when I wrote this article on gang rape, that article of Shurpanakha and the gang rape. so some Mataji from Bangalore, she wrote a question, it’s a publishing video, I gave the answer, she said, you know, actually, what is the karma that leads to some person getting raped? Can we know that karma so that we will never do that karma and we will not have to suffer in that way? You know, it’s quite, so it’s quite, what shall we say? It’s quite, as I said, a paranoid way of thinking.
Paranoid means very fearful way of thinking that, you know, if I do this karma, then the reaction is that I will get raped. If I don’t do that karma, it’s a guarantee that I will not get raped. It’s not like that, you know, karmic reactions, the whole purpose of analysis, or another question, I’ll illustrate this point in another way.
Another question that somebody asked is, you know, that woman in Delhi who got raped, what was her karma because of which she got raped? So it was quite a brutal rape also, terrible it was, the way it was demoniac. But anyway, so the answer I give is primarily the whole philosophy of karma is not meant for post-mortem. It is for prognosis.
What is the difference between post-mortem and prognosis? The post-mortem means, after it has happened, why it has happened? You know, if you start thinking like that, imagine some devotee is sick and in a sick room, and then the devotee is sick, and every time a devotee goes to meet him, what karma did he do that he got sick? You know, if you start thinking like that, where will be our human compassion? Where will be our sensitivity? Where will be our caring attitude? So actually, philosophy should enhance our humanity, not that it shrinks our humanity. If our philosophy makes us insensitive to suffering of others, then we are defeating the purpose of philosophy. In Mahabharata, when Draupadi is disrobed, nobody raises the question, what was your karma because of which you got disrobed? Isn’t it? When Sita is abducted, nobody asks the question, you know, what karma did you do because of which you were abducted by Ravana? So actually, when a person is suffering, at that time, we should be there with that person to help them cope with the suffering.
At that time, it is not that for our, it is not for us to point out that this is the, that you know, this person is sinful, that’s why that person is suffering. It will be, it will be monstrously insensitive to do like that, when a person is suffering. yeah, so our understanding is that we are, what is, so the whole philosophy of karma is not for post-mortem.
It’s not that when I am suffering, you know, others tell me you did this, this, this because of your suffering, your suffering is right. You deserve it all. No, that is not the whole idea.
The idea is for prognosis. Prognosis means, if I do this, I’ll get such reactions. If I do this, I’ll get this reaction.
If I don’t, if I want to avoid them, let me not do those things. So especially when a person is suffering, if at that time we bring in the law of karma to sort of justify that suffering to that person, we will only end up appearing very hard-hearted and not only will we appear very hard-hearted, we will become hard-hearted also. See, if we start using the whole principle of karma, where will that end? It’s in the sense, say, if I say, when a baby is born and the baby is crying or the mother’s milk, and the mother says, oh, the baby’s karma, that’s why the baby’s crying.
So if we start, if we start justifying suffering like that, then there will be, what will be left of human relationships? What will be left of human compassion? What will be left of humanity? So the whole principle of karma is to help us stay, affixed in our duty. It is not to point us out to all the deviations from our duty that we may have done in the past. So similarly, with respect to Vaishnav operas also, if I am facing some problems and I feel that maybe I have committed some Vaishnav operas, it’s not that I have to try to find out what Vaishnav operas I committed because of which I got this reaction.
It’s just that, if something is a very egregious Vaishnav opera, very obvious thing that I have done wrong, then maybe I should go and seek forgiveness. But in general, it’s more that in the future, we act right. It’s not that, it’s not that in the past, I go into a post-mortem mode thinking maybe I did that wrong and because of that, that happened.
And because of that, that happened. If it’s a very clear pattern, well and good. But if it is not, then don’t go into that so much.
We know what is the right thing to do and just focus on doing that. Is this clear what I’m saying? One more question. Okay, one more point before I complete this.
So the other question, is there some karma, is there something which we will not do, then we will not suffer in a particular way. The point is, the Hanna Karmanogati when we say, it is not just, it is not just an excuse for not being able to explain. Karma is very complex.
That because we can’t explain, so we say karma is very complex. It’s not like that. Actually, the way karmic reactions can come around is itself variable.
Sometimes the one action may give multiple reactions. Like when I say there is Prarabdha Karma, if I get a, if I get, somebody’s born blind, then that blindness is something which is a lifelong thing. So that is something which the person did for which the reaction came.
So one action may give a reaction which may last for a short time, which may last for a long time, or sometimes the reaction may come as a series of events. Sometimes in some families, some children will say, I did such a karma in my first birth, that I got a son like you. Some people may say something like that.
The whole idea is, now that is just an expression of exasperation or frustration. But the point is, even if I get a particular kind of son, or a particular kind of relative or whatever, but the reactions may come at different times in different ways. So one action may give multiple reactions, or sometimes multiple actions may give one reaction.
Suppose a person dies in, suppose 5,000 people die in a tsunami. It’s not that all of them had done any one particular action, because of which they died at that time. I mean, multiple actions had happened.
So one action may give multiple reactions. Multiple actions may come together as one reaction. And also, the reactions may come at different times to different actions.
That’s why we really can’t tell how karmic reactions may come. And that’s why, rather than trying to avoid this particular activity, I will not get this kind of suffering, what we should do is, in general, try to avoid all improper actions. In the fifth kind of Shambhagavatam, there is a description of the various kinds of things.
But that description is also indicated. It is not exhaustive. It’s not that there is a catalogue of all possible sins and misdeeds and crimes that people can commit, and all possible hellish reactions that one person can do.
It is indicated. But if you do wrong, usually the person who is wrong is the person who is suffering from it. But there can be many other kinds of sufferings, or there can be many other kinds of reactions.
So that’s why, the focus always is not on specifics, but on principles. And the principle is that, when we choose the right action, we save ourselves from suffering. And if we choose the wrong action, we set ourselves up for suffering.
We don’t go into the past analysis. So again, coming back to the point, if I am suffering now, rather than thinking that because I did something wrong in the past, so Krishna is causing this suffering to me. What I see is, how can I see the situation as an opportunity to go closer to Krishna? So in my Gita daily, I wrote an article called, Ask not why this, but how now? Why this means, why did this happen to me? But rather, how now? Means now, how should I serve Krishna? Now, how should I move ahead with this mission? So ask not why this, but how now? This is a understood.
Summarise what I was just telling you. It’s coming back. It’s working.
So, I mean, how now is a matter of prognosis, not post-mortem. How now means, how should I serve Krishna now? Now this has happened, how can I serve Krishna in this situation? So why this, why this has happened? There is simply Sakarya analogy. So, we should enhance our humanity, not shrink our humanity.
Shrink our humanity means, that we become insensitive to the sufferings of others. And we sort of justify the sufferings, which people are going through. That is the basic human compassion, and that has to be expressed.
Now, in some cases, I think we have discussed this elaborately in our issue, which is worth repeating. If people are suffering, say people are suffering because of an earthquake, or a tsunami, or whatever. At that time, what is our role over there? Do we just say that, oh, people are suffering because of their karma, let them suffer.
If the earthquake occurs, or a tsunami occurs, can we just say that people are suffering because of their karma, let them suffer? No. Now, we are not against humanity. We are against humanity and work, being equated with devotional service.
So, when there is, when the citizens of Uttar Maharaj were fasting, and they were saying that, their fire of digestion is burning us from inside, because we don’t have any food. He doesn’t tell them, oh, this is a good time for you to realise you are not the body, you are the soul. What do they do? These are enemies for them.
So, the whole problem is, that philosophy should not be used to justify or rationalise suffering. It should actually be used to decrease suffering. So, the difference is that, Brahmanas help people decrease their suffering in a different way, and Kshatriyas help people decrease their suffering in a different way.
Brahmanas offer spiritual knowledge and wisdom and solace, and Kshatriyas offer material help. Both are required. And what Srila Prabhupada is opposed to is that, Brahmanas being forced to take up the role of Kshatriyas.
Spiritual institutions being forced to offer material welfare, and that being made into the standard of their contribution to the society. That’s what he was opposed to. But both are expected to help in their own ways.
Any further questions? Do you think regarding karma, as we heard that, when a person surrenders to the Lord, that time his karma gets burned. So, as we see sometimes, the devotees, they die in accidents. So, how we can understand their karma is burned or not? Next time, it looks like their surrender is burned.
Actually, when we say that, when we surrender, the karma is burned, that, when we surrender is a very important part, which we don’t know whether it is happening or not. So, there is also 4.11 which says, ye thamam prapadyante dāṃ sathe vasudhāyāmy aham. So, rather than assuming that we have surrendered, we focus on the principle that, whatever way we practise Krishna Consciousness, Krishna will help us.
But we can’t demand that Krishna help in a particular way. As I just pointed out, when Abhimanyu was a great soul, that I was a surrendered soul, that means I have to suffer. So, the guarantee of bhakti is not that devotees will not suffer.
But it is that, that suffering will not have the last laugh. For a materialistic person, suffering has the last laugh. Last laugh means, you know, it is ultimately victorious.
Because ultimately, that suffering is unreal, it ends everything. For a devotee, at a material level, there may be suffering. But a devotee goes beyond the suffering by devotional consciousness.
So, suffering does not have a last laugh. Suffering is not ultimately victorious. But intermittently, suffering may take control of a person’s life or something.
But we have to be patient. And then ultimately, Krishna is redeeming himself. Do pure devotees suffer the pain of death? So, generally speaking, what for pure devotee is, bodily sufferings are intermittent diseases.
They are not sufferings like they are cars. It is just like if somebody is going by a car, and the car breaks down. If you are going for a programme.
So, when the vehicle breaks down. That is an inconvenience for you. Vehicle breaking down is not say the same as your leg getting fractured.
Is it? Similarly, for a pure devotee, the first thing to understand is what is the vehicle? So, if the vehicle is getting disrupted, then that inconvenience is this. Similarly, inconvenience is this. So, that’s why, as pure devotees may also take medicines, they may also take treatment.
And, as long as they are in the body, the bodily disruptions will inconvenience them. So, we need to, we see that. So, that is inconvenient.
That’s not a suffering. But again, that should not make us insensitive. It is not that pure devotee is having some, having some bodily inconvenience.
No, if you are a pure devotee, you should not suffer anything. You should see that as an opportunity to serve the devotee. So, they don’t suffer the pain of death, because they are not attached to the body.
Still, for the soul to leave the body, and for the soul to serve within the body, when the body is crumbling down, is not a pleasant situation. So, we should offer whatever service we can, at that time. And, you should see that as an opportunity to create the Krishna, for us to serve the devotee.
But, at a bodily level, when there is disruption, there is inconvenience. There is not exactly suffering. So, inconvenience is there.
So, they don’t suffer the way we do. But, we shouldn’t let that sort of analysis, make us think that, because the devotee is a pure devotee, they are not suffering, there is no need to do anything about the situation. We should try to serve in the best possible.
Can you answer this question? Yes. Bheeshmadevi is also being crushed along with the devotees. Yes, Bheeshmadevi is also getting crushed.
Well, no, it is not mentioned that Bheeshmadevi is getting crushed. What is said is, that all these warriors are entering into the mountain, and some of them, some of them, Churute Rukkamanguru. So, who are they? I have not mentioned.
So, you don’t have to necessarily infer that Bheeshmadevi is among those who is getting smashed or anything like that. If you look at the sequence of the verses, the, let’s look at that verse. So, first, it is described that, all of them are entering.
Kechit villagana. Kechit means some of them. Kechit, what is Kechit translation? Some of them, really.
Kechit villagana dashinantareshu sandrushyante churute rukkamanguru. Some of them are suffering. Some of them are getting their heads smashed.
All of them are entering into the mountain, which means all of them are dying. So, it is not that all of them are having their heads smashed. So, it is not that the brutal death will come to some of them.
No, it has to come to everybody. So, some doesn’t have to refer to Bheeshmadevi. And, Bheeshmadevi, in his death row, although it is very impolite to mention Bheeshmadevi, there has been graceful and glorious resurrection.
I’ll ask Krishna. Can we say that, Dhritarashtra Guru was seated in the two market places. So, later, Lord Chaitanya says that, actually, I took the beating, yeah.
So, can we also assume that for pure devotees, even though they are suffering, the same thing happens? Can we assume that for pure devotees, when they are suffering, Krishna takes the suffering upon them, and, they actually feel the pain? Personally, I don’t think it is good for us to feel that they are not feeling any pain. Because that will make us insensitive. It is, so, for example, you know, Radha Maharaj tells also when he was with Bhaktivedanta Maharaj, he was in great pain, but then the moment he was not able to concentrate, when I was reading Chaitanya Chaitanya Tamas, one day he was in such great pain, he was not able to concentrate.
And then, as then, then I started chanting Hare Krishna, and as soon as I started chanting Hare Krishna, a blissful, childlike, innocent smile came on his face. And he was so happy. So, now, this is not a hack.
If your body level pain is there, pain is there. But then, by the remembrance of Krishna, the pain can be transcended. The remembrance of Krishna is not automatic.
So, it is not that every time when we hear the philosophy, we learn to transcend. Sometimes it will be, the transcending effect will come through patrons. Sometimes it may come through just calling out Krishna’s name.
Sometimes it may come through associating with some devotees. Sometimes it may come through absorbing ourselves in some fasting of Krishna, or some service, or whatever. So, the principle of transcending suffering for suffering, by absorption in Krishna consciousness, we always hold to it.
But the way it will get implemented, the way it will appear, may vary according to individual’s consciousness. It’s not mechanical. That every time I face temptation, that immediately I start telling, Hare Krishna, rest will do.
It may not happen every sometimes. I may have to do some other things. I may have to consult with some yogis, I go and pray for the deities, I recite some Vaishnav songs, I just read some notes, I recite some verses from the Bhagavatam.
So, I may have to, it’s not that, it’s not that, although the holy names are powerful, it’s not that we will be able to access Krishna’s mercy through one manifestation, all that I do. We may have to try different ways. So, if the devotee, pure devotee, happens in all these communities, we should feel that this is the opportunity to serve.
And, we shouldn’t think that they are not serving. Although, we know that they can consent. Giriraj was telling me that when he was treating Rana Maharaj, that’s where Maharaj is, in the Upanishad, he was telling that there are these big messiahs who come and massage people.
So, I would say that when they come and massage or they do some whatever, when they do operations, all that they do is clean and clean. Even if Maharaj’s head is shaking, that does not bring any suffering. So, you know, if some injection is being done, surgery is being done, should we just think that actually there is no pain happening? I think it is very insensitive.
We know a pure devotee can come to you, and a pure devotee has to come to you. But, for us to think that there is no suffering is insensitive. We should be there to help him whatever way we can.
The simple thing is, let’s say, if a senior devotee is coming and carrying a big bag, you know, is that devotee going to feel inconvenienced because of carrying the big bag? And then we go and offer. It will be actually stranded, there is no luggage, there is no way of carrying the bag. Will we think like that? The obvious answer, we won’t think it.
We will think that okay, let me carry the bag. Then, so same way, the pure devotee will not mind being there. If that is what is required for the service of Krishna, the pure devotee will do that.
But, if we have an opportunity to take up and in some way decrease, we should do it. Does this example make it clear? So, we shouldn’t think of sickness or death or any difference. Whenever there is a possibility to help others deal with any inconvenience, we should try to do it.
Whatever it is. And the pure devotees, they are ready to face it for the sake of Krishna. Okay, last question.
Thank you, sir. I don’t think, if you have any more questions, I will complete the chapter. We are seeing here that how to understand that they are still present on the battlefield.
Arjuna is seeing them getting killed by the Vishuddhita. But, if we see in the frame of time, they are still present there. Although, we know that Krishna says that I have already killed them, you have to just do your duty.
May be not. Then, how to understand logically this form of God, which you are ready to live with material and non-spiritual. How to understand this? How is this happening? is it just an illusion or No, no, it’s like a… So, the soldiers are still there on the battlefield and how to understand that in this vision, he is seeing that all the soldiers are entering into the battlefield into the mouth and dying.
This is a glimpse of the future that is being given right now. So, glimpse of the future means not that later on anywhere in the battlefield all the soldiers will enter into the mouth. The point is that this mouth of the Virat Rupa is a representation of the future.
And, the soldiers are going to die in the future. So, what is going to happen in the future? That is being displayed over here. Yacchanya drashtu nityasi I think in 4.7 he said that I will show you this I will show you Virat Rupa and then I will show you also what else you do whatever else you may want to see.
So, Yacchanya drashtu nityasi is displaying that also. And, in another sense in the purport of 4.24 4.24 is that famous verse Brahmaarpanam brahmadeh Brahmaarmano brahmanam Brahmaiva dhenakanta Brahmakarmasamadhena So, this prayer this is a verse which is the Mayavadi’s equivalent of Mahaprasade Govindi you know when they take food Brahmaarpanam brahmadeh Brahmaarmano brahmanam Brahmaiva dhenakanta Brahmakarmasamadhena So, they take this food is Brahma I am Brahma Brahma is going into Brahma and ultimately will go into Brahma So, where Chakravarthipada explains in that section he says that so that Krishna is talking about practise through yagya in so many ways So, some people say even you know Apareyagya Yoginaparipariparam some do yagya fire sacrifice some do fasting some do brahmacharya some do brahastashram some do opening annakshetras there are so many different kinds of yagyas So, Chakravarthipada says is that what is Krishna telling over here Arjuna, I want you to become a warrior I want you to become a I want you to perform a yagya and the Kurukshetra battlefield is the yagya sthali you are the pujari the the Gandiva is the fire the Kauravas are the Ahuti Ahuti Ahuti Ahuti in the fire congratulations and if you perform this yagya actually you have been performed in the mount of Vishnu prior to the mount of Vishnu and Ahuti enters in the Vishnu is in the fire so in the yagya then the fire is being shown so kala when he is burning what is happening Krishna is demonstrating to Arjuna that we have done it performed it Vishnu is going to kill the Kauravas and Ahuti I will be executed so what is this yagya over here not necessarily something which will happen in this yagya which will not be the case it is a it is a visual demonstration it is the principle of yagya the principle is that both of you are Arjuna’s God so you have to lie and Arjuna you should become instrument in lying right we are just trying to lie and when we lie it is actually a part of your yagya and you say we are Ahuti going in the fire similarly this yagya will go in the fire I need one hour to answer this question ok is the did we discuss this in our push up session is universal form real or imaginable I have a power point in this entire you know ok I will explain it briefly it is an important topic see the word universal form ok the word universal form means although the word is one it means different things in different places the virat rupa that is described in the Pabhlokam is not the same as the Vishwa rupa that is described in the Pabhlokam what is the difference ok the difference between Gita universal form and Bhagwatam universal form the Gita universal form is a revelation the Bhagwatam universal form is a conceptualisation what does it mean that the revelation means something which is revealed shown to us by somebody else so now as Krishna has said in the Arjuna divyam dadamite chakshu question is yoga maheshwaram that I am going to show this form to you see it now so the idea here is that it is a revelation from Krishna by his will on the other hand conceptualisation means if you look at the Bhagwatam Prabhupada explains in one purport that the great philosophers imagine the universal form to be like this kalpitaha yeah here it is SB 2.5.36 the great philosophers imagine that the complete planetary systems in the universe are displaced with the upper different upper and lower limbs of the universal body of the lord imagine kalpitaha this word comes very clearly in the Bhagwatam so what does this mean in the Bhagwatam there is there is a progression in how the supreme lord is we connect with the supreme lord so one of the ways is if we understand that god is great so think of his greatness in terms of the greatness of the universe when i think of his greatness in terms of the greatness of the universe when we associate the various great things of the world with god so for example the mountains are the bones the trees are the hair like that so when this sort of conceptualisation is done now you will see something if you read Bhagwatam carefully the references to the virat rupa come in many places many prayers they talk about it you know this lokar your eyes this has your hands your legs but you will also see the references in the various parts of the Bhagwatam are not the same in some places the hands will be compared to one thing in some other places the arms will be compared to something else eyes will be compared to one thing in one place eyes will be compared to something else in another place but because this is a conceptualisation conceptualisation means that for those who need to think of God’s greatness in terms of material greatness they are told to associate various material things with God and thereby start contemplating on God’s greatness so the conceptualisation can be done in various ways it’s not like a it’s not a frozen thing that whatever is given in one section of the Bhagwatam is absolute there are different sections of Bhagwatam which are conceptualised in different ways so the virat rupa of the Bhagwatam is a conceptual tool it’s a conceptual tool by which one can start meditating on God by contemplating his greatness so is it is the Bhagwatam’s virat rupa real? no it’s not real it’s conceptual and different people may conceive conceptualise it in different ways now what about the what about the Bhagavad Gita’s virat rupa is that real? well if we want to say real in terms of it being eternal then it’s not eternal there is no vishwa rupa loka anywhere in the matrila’s spiritual worlds there is no vishwa rupa loka so in that sense if you want to use real in terms of eternal it’s not eternal but real in terms of that it is actually revealed by Krishna and at that time it is not just Arjuna conceptualising it conceptualisation means I imagine something revelation means somebody else shows it to me so in the to the extent that it is Krishna showing it to Arjuna it is real it is not just Arjuna’s imagination but it is not real in terms of it being eternal and Krishna when he shows the virat rupa he can or vishwa rupa that is the word that is commonly used he can show it in different ways if you look at the written description of the vishwa rupa that is given in the Bhagavatam or else Mahabharata the vishwa rupa shown to Duryodhana is different from the vishwa rupa shown to Arjuna Krishna shows vishwa rupa to various people and he shows it in different ways at different times so the vishwa rupa is real in terms of that in the in the sense that it is the real revelation of the Lord but it is not real in the sense that it is not eternal is that answer your question? you said it is not spiritual but Krishna is revealing it so what form it is revealing so Krishna is revealing it just because Krishna reveals something does not necessarily mean that it has to be spiritual then material then what it is referring to? made up of elements or things? when it is material what is it made up of? what is described for example it is described that you have many hands and legs and in the right on top I can see Brahmaji in the bottom I can see divine serpents so whatever is described that is what it is made up of but it is not something which is eternal so Krishna reveals it it is almost like a magic show only thing is that it is not just illusion it is a reality that is revealed temporarily so that means when Krishna wants he can manifest it Krishna wants he can make it unmanifest just like when Krishna performs Rastlila at that time one Krishna expands as many other Krishnas now after the Rastlila gets over what happens to all the other Krishnas? you know they disappear you say that they re-enter into Krishna or whatever but then does that mean that all those Krishnas were false? no before that past time that Krishna revealed or expanded himself into many forms so now generally speaking there is a slight difference between expansion and incarnation expansion is generally at the same stratum of existence the same level of existence incarnation is when it is from one level of existence to another that means when Krishna expands into various Vishnu Murthis when Krishna manifests as various Vishnu Murthis that is an expansion because Krishna is spiritual and the others Vishnu Murthis also manifests at the spiritual level when Krishna descends to the material world that is called an incarnation but when Krishna is in the material world and he is performing Rastura at that time when he manifests in multiple forms that is an expansion it is in the material world only so when something comes from the spiritual world to the material world that is an incarnation but when a manifestation gives further manifestation that same level of existence then it is called the expansion so just like here Krishna may expand in Rastrina and manifest something temporary it is real and that form is in that case it is spiritual but then it becomes unmanifested similarly here Krishna can manifest Vishwaroopa which is material it is made of material elements and you can make it unmanifest while it is manifested it is real it is just an representation to how Krishna is controlling the universe yeah it is a is it just a representation of how Krishna is controlling the whole universe well not just controlling the whole universe it is that the whole universe is his body what is that katha vishwesha vishwasman vishwamurte svakeshu three things three aspects the relationship of Krishna are with the Vishwa vishwesha vishwasman vishwamurte so vishwesh this is Kulti Maharaj’s prayers vishwesha is that he is the control of the universe as a controller he can be outside the universe also katha vishwesha vishwasman vishwasman refers to Vishwadakshavishnu who is inside everything and vishwamurte that refers to Krishna manifesting in the Vishwaroop so they are all three so tadantarasya bhagavata told that tadantarasya sarvasya tadu sarvasya asya bhagavata so it is like that so let us move forward now so now now comes the part about Nithya So, his Leli is a Grasamana, he is little and he is consuming, devouring. Lokaan Samagraan Vadalaiy Joladhi, flaming mouth, he is consuming all the Lokas.
Tejo Bhurapur Jagat Samangram, the illumination, the Teja, the deep, the bliss. That is Jagat Samangram, he is spreading everywhere. Bhasa Stavagra, Pratupanna to Vishnu.
So, after 24, our reference to Vishnu comes second time. So, immediately after reference to Vishnu, Arjuna will ask, who are you? That means, he understands this is Vishnu, but what kind of form of Vishnu is it? Actually, he doesn’t know. So, Aakhyahe, I am asking you, Bha, respectful address really, Ugra Rupa.
Ko, ko means who? Namostu te, I offer my obeisances to you. Bhara Prasinidhi, please be Deva Bhara, you are the greatest of the Gods. Please have mercy on me.
And first he asks, who are you? And second he asks, Vijnanatam Ichchami, what is the Madhyam? I want to know. Nahi Prajanami Tava Pravartin, Pravartin means inclination or motive or mission. So, I do not know what is your mission.
Please tell that to me. Vijnanatam Ichchami. So, this is the only place where Bhavan comes twice.
Bhavan and Bhavantam, both are coming over here. So, he is asking him, please tell me your mission. Now, the Supreme Lord will answer.
So, it’s not Sri Vishwa Rupa. So, what is the Bhagavan Vacha? Destroyer of all the worlds. So, now, actually time does all three things.
The flow of time leads to creation, leads to maintenance, leads to destruction. All three. But especially in this context, the destruction is emphasised.
And destroy all the worlds. And the question was, Tava Pravartin. Nahi Prajanami Tava Pravartin.
So, then he is describing, what is the Pravartin? Lokaam Samahartham Iha Pravartam. I have come here for Lokaam Samahartham. And the Rite is from Vishnu.
So, except for you, Rite is from Vishnu. So, all are assembled here. Except one, all of them will be here.
So, now, the word Rite can mean except and the word Rite can also mean without. That means, except for you, everyone else will be killed. That is the concept of Tava Pravartin.
Without you also, everybody will be killed. That means, even if you don’t fight, they are going to die. Therefore, you cannot avoid the death.
So, let us use an instrument, let us use an instrument. Rite Apk. We will describe.
Asmath Aachaarya Paryanthaam Vandhey Guru Paramparaam So, Asmath. Because as it is, all of them are going to die. Asmath Aachaarya Paryanthaam Vandhey Guru Paramparaam If you are enjoying in the devotional service of Krishna, that is not a problem.
Whom should you enjoy? But enjoy a prosperous kingdom. Prabhupada told the devotees who started the Mayavad project, I have given you the kingdom of God. Take it, develop it, enjoy it.
So, enjoyment is not necessarily wrong if it is within the realm of devotional service. Whom should Arjun Samriddham? Enjoy a flourishing kingdom. Mayai Vahite There is no doubt, there are so many enemies.
How will Arjuna go there? Mayai Vahite By Maya, Arjuna and only they are killed. But you have to mimic Arjuna. Just be convinced.
Now, it is interesting that Krishna, although he is telling Arjuna to become a mimic to Mahadeva, that does not in any way decrease the glory of Arjuna. Why? It’s very significant Krishna in the name of Sauley Saachi. Sauley Saachi refers to person who is ambidextrous, person who can use both arms equally well.
Now even among warriors, that is an exceptional skill. There are some people who can shoot, they hold the gun like this and shoot, they place the trigger with the right hand. But if they hold the trigger with the left hand, they can shoot ambidextrously.
And the skill that is required to shoot a trigger with a gun is far lesser than the skill that is required to shoot with two hands. So that means Krishna is a technology that Arjuna is extraordinarily skilled. And it doesn’t mean that there are some people who say when you don’t have insurance it is your time to pray.
So the idea is that when nothing else works then you pray. That means there is like prayer is the last thing that you do. A prayer is a thing to be done by those who can’t do anything else or those who don’t do anything else.
That is not the idea. The idea is that even the best have to pray. Even the best should serve Krishna.
So Arjuna, he certainly glorifies Sauley Saachi. But even for those who are talented, even for those who are skilled, even for those who are highly competent, to become an instrument for the Lord is not something which is any good. Because then you can use your talents for the best purpose.
You can use your talents for the best purpose. Now, you may sometimes say that actually when Krishna is singing for Krishna, Krishna is bhavagraha. So even if you don’t sing, well that is okay, Krishna accepts bhavagraha.
That is true. But if you want to share Krishna’s mission, you want to recognise people as Krishna, then Krishna has the best singers. Similarly, if you want to write for Krishna, you should have the best writers.
Krishna deserves the best of everyone. Because those who are good at things, they will do the things well. But if they are not doing it in devotional service, their doing it well will only lead people into ambition.
So somebody can sing well and that person sings really well and that person suddenly creates lust and mundane things out of action and people do those things. So, even if you want to become an instrument of Krishna, it is not a denial of availability. It is an improvement of our abilities.
Because our abilities get used for the best possible purpose. Prabhupada writes this also in the Bhagavatam. He says how the Pandavas were good at everything and still were extremely competent in everything and still they were totally surrendered to the Lord.
Nimitta Matra and Saubhya Saachi. So Nimitta Matra just to become an instrument. That would mean to say that you don’t have to do anything, just become an instrument.
Actually, becoming an instrument of Krishna is not a denial of our abilities, but the fulfilment of our abilities. Why the fulfilment? Because our abilities get used for the best cause. They do the best good to us and they do the best good to others.
So it’s not that we lose our creativity, we lose our artistry, it’s not that we lose our capacity to do things. We can do things, but we do those things in a way that we do the best possible. And now to emphasise that conclusion again, Krishna will speak a further verse.
So, earlier it was Drona, Vishnu, Suta, Kutra, Sakhasa. Now it is Suta, Kutra is there as Karna. Significantly Jayadrath is added.
Now it’s very significant that Jayadrath is added over here, because in the first chapter when various warriors are mentioned on the two sides, there is no mention of Sindhupati or Jayadrath over there. So that means even from Duryodhana’s estimate, Duryodhana when he was evaluating both the sides, he did not consider Jayadrath to be very important. But somehow by the arrangement of fate, Jayadrath was going to play a very crucial role in this way.
Adding Jayadrath was going to be a very great challenge for Arjuna. Krishna is assuring Arjuna that Jayadrath is also going to die. So, Vishnu, Drona, Jayadrath, Maya, Hatha, I, Me and even they are all going with Yudhya Svajetasi.
So you will attain victory. Jahima Vyatishta, do not be fearful, give up hesitation, just fight. Now, again now the scene is going back.
So here, Arjuna has been spoken to Krishna and Krishna has been speaking back. Till now when Krishna is speaking, it is Krishna as Vishwaroopa speaking. So now, the scene goes back and Sanjay describes what is happening to Dhritarashtra.
Actually it is not long, but this is one verse to sort of create a distance for us to understand what is happening. So, before Sanjay, Arjuna speaks, we want to know what is Arjuna’s physical condition. To describe that, the scenes are a little different.
So, after hearing this Vachan of Keshava, Srutanja, we can’t tell you what they are earlier also. But now, before speaking, Vakama Rupa says this. Sorry, hold it in your hand.
Vekamana. Vekamana means strength. Kiriti.
This is Vekamana and Kiriti is significant because Kiriti, Arjuna also, the one who wears the crown. Normally, Kshatriya has never become Kirti. They have never transformed.
Normally, Kshatriyas are trained to see blood, they see murder, they see death. They do lot of cheating. That’s how they can redeem you that way.
But, here is, Darshan of Vishwaroopa is so frightening that even he is Vekamana. And then, what does he do? Namaskritya Bhole Kevalakrishna. Namaskritya Bhole.
Earlier in Vasthana, Arjuna has got a gun here. So, he is fearful and his voice is choking. Pranam.
Pranam. He offers the blessing and he starts speaking. So, now, Arjuna’s prayer starts.
Let’s look at Aurya Vishwaroopa. So, 36-38 is glorification. 39-40 is obeisance.
41-40 is apology. And 45-46, you can note this down. So, this is how they use it.
So, this is a verse which comes in the Rakshasa-Rakshas-Totra. What is Rakshasa-Rakshas-Totra? That actually, this says there are some prayers which are chanted to avoid being haunted by ghosts, to avoid being attacked by evil spirits. So, like that when one wants protection from Rakshasas, this is the verse that is chanted.
So, Rakshamsi Dheethani Vishodh Gavandhi. So, all the Rakshasas are running away from here. Sthane Rishikeshi Tava Prakritya.
Sthane means whatever is happening is right. What is that right that is happening? Rishikeshi Tava Prakritya. When your glories are heard, Jagat Praharishyate Nivajyate.
So, the whole universe becomes happy of hearing your glories. And, on the other hand, there are some people who are in the middle of Rakshamsi. The demons flee away.
All this is very right. Sthane. It is as it should be.
And Sarve Namasyanti Siddhasangha. So, the world becomes happy, the demons run away and the Siddhas offer you obeisances. So, now what is happening? Arjuna is recognising that this is the Viratrupa and the Viratrupa has come to establish Dharma in the world.
And so, whatever at earlier had seemed so ghastly, everybody dying, Shurita Rukla Nangai, Kechi Pillar, all that you need. All this is sthane. All this is proper.
As you understand, this is Lord with his mission over here. And then he will describe, how can it be wrong? Why should they not offer obeisances to you? Why? Because actually you are the greatest person. Brahma is known as the creator.
But you are greatest. You are greater than Brahma also. Adhikara.
You are maybe the original creator. And you are a member of the universe. You are the universal creator.
You are the lord of all the gods. You are the lord of the universe. And Pramaksha.
You are an intentional reality. You are beyond the substance of this world. You are not up here.
You are cause and effect. You are temporary and infinite. You are beyond all that.
You are in this world. Substance here, it is not temporary or eternal in the sense of matter and spirit. But you are cause and effect.
You are beyond all that. So, one more verse of the Bhagavad Gita. Then we will start offering obeisances.
Pramaham govindam purusham pramaham. So, it is very clear. You are the original God.
You are the primaeval person. You are the shelter of the universe. You are the object of knowledge.
Vyaktas. You are the knower and you are the object of knowledge. Vyaktas is equal to param jnanam.
Supreme shelter. Tvayadatam vishvam anantaroopam. You have manifested this anantaroopam.
Tvayadatam vishvam anantaroopam. You have pervaded the whole universe. Then, we say that in this universe there are various things which we see.
They are ultimately here because they are your manifestations. Tvayadatam vishvam anantaroopam. So, the previous line ends with you pervade the whole cosmic manifestation.
Now, how you pervade the whole cosmic manifestation? We will describe in the next verse. PAYURYAM AUGNIR VARUNASHI SHANKH AUGNIR VARUNASHI SHANKH PRAJAPATISKAM TRAPITA MAHASYA PRAJAPATISKAM TRAPITA MAHASYA NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA PUNASHCHE BHUYOPI NAMO NAMASTE BHUYOPI NAMO NAMASTE So, there are all these powerful deities of the various aspects of cosmic manifestation. Mahayogam, Agnir.
Ultimately, they are representing your power. Therefore, now when you yourself, of course, when you manifested, I would offer one obeisances to one lord, but when you have manifested in front of me, I offer hundreds of obeisances to you. NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA All this involves a worthy of my obeisances.
You also, you all are involved in the prayer. How many more obeisances should I offer you? And hundreds of obeisances, sahasrara kripa, thousands of obeisances, and then PUNASHCHE BHUYOPI NAMO NAMASTE So, it is ecstasy, it is reverential ecstasy of you. NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA PRABHULI AAPKE CHAVAN TAVLAV NISHAK SHAKOTI PRANAM Some people say like that, you know, that it just becomes the, it just becomes another phrase that people use.
Arjuna is saying that he is being in the position of sahasrara kripa, NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA NAMO NAMASTE PUSAHAS VATRATVA Sanctuary means like a shelter or a resting place. IDHANAM, BHAGWATAN SAID IDHANAM IS SANCTUARY Refuge Yeah, it is like the resting place. When everything in the world is destroyed, it all rests in you.
You are the shelter, the resting place. Now, I will describe After describing, I offer obeisances. So, now there is a problem for Arjuna.
He says he wants to offer obeisances. Normally, if you go into the temple, you will see that the deities are in front of us. So, he will offer obeisances there.
But the Viratrupa is everywhere. So, where will you offer obeisances? So, he says, I offer obeisances from the front, from the behind, from the left, from the right, from all sides I offer obeisances. That is what details in the next verse.
NAMA PURASTHALATHA PURUSHTA TASTE PURASTHALATHA PURUSHTA TASTE NAMOSTU TE SARVA TAEVA SARVA SARVA TAEVA SARVA ANANTA VIRYAM TAVIK RAMASTAM ANANTA VIRYAM TAVIK RAMASTAM SARVAM SAMAPNAM SHITATO SI SARVA SAMAPNAM SHITATO SI SARVA So, NAMA PURASTHALATHA I offer obeisances from the front, and then I am PURUSHTA TASTE from behind also, because you are behind also, behind also. And then SARVA TAEVA SARVA because in all directions, in every direction I offer obeisances. And your glory is ANANTA VIRYAM and your VIKRAMA is AMITA VIKRAMA.
It never gets eradicated. Right? Now, SARVAM SAMAPNAM SHITATO SI SARVA So, even in this case, it’s not a Mayavadi or Pantheistic, all is God. It is saying, SARVAM SAMAPNAM SHITATO SI SARVA You pervade everything, and in that sense, you are everything.
TATO SI SARVA It’s not that you are in absolute sense everything, because you pervade everything, so you are everything. Now, after offering glorification, after offering obeisances, now Arjuna starts feeling a little bit of apprehension about how he has treated Krishna so cheaply as an intimate friend. So, now he will offer apologies.
SAKHETI NATVA PRASADAM LUPTAM NATVA PRASADAM LUPTAM HE KRISHNA HE YADAV HE SAKHETI KRISHNA HE YADAV HE SAKHETI AJANATA MAHIMANAM GALEGAM AJANATA MAHIMANAM GALEGAM MAYA PRAMADA TRANAYE NAVAPI MAYA PRAMADA TRANAYE NAVAPI LECHA VAHA SARDANA SAT PRADOSI LECHA VAHA SARDANA SAT PRADOSI VIHARA SHAYASAN BHOJANESHU VIHARA SHAYASAN BHOJANESHU EKO THAVAPYA CHUDDHAT SAMAKSHAM EKO THAVAPYA CHUDDHAT SAMAKSHAM PRACHAMAYE TVAM AHAM PRAMEYAM PRACHAMAYE TVAM AHAM PRAMEYAM So, SAKHETI NATVA, I thought of you as my Sakha. PRASABHAM NEDUKTAM Prasabham means, I spoke improperly to you. Where does the word Prasabham come in the Bhagavad Gita? HARANTI PRASABHAM MANAH It comes in 2 points.
2 points is to talk about the Purusha Samprasthita. INDRIYAN PRAMATHI HARANTI PRASABHAM So, Prasabham means, when we are unregulated, we are uncontrolled, the actions are rude, disrespectful, awkward. So, you say, similarly, I spoke in an appropriate way to you.
PRASABHAM NEDUKTAM Presumptuously, he spoke a transverse word. So, what did I do? HEY KRISHNA, HEY YADAVA, HEY SAKHETI Saint Sakharwati Vandana has a very interesting meaning. He says, Hey Krishna, you are Krishna.
And he says, actually, I am the Rajkumar. Arjuna is saying that he is thinking, that at least I was directly the prince. My brother was the king and since I was also the king.
But Krishna, you are not even the king. You are just born in a royal dynasty. So, you were born as a cowherd.
You lived as a cowherd. Then even when you came, you never became a king. You are just one among the Yadu clan.
And therefore, when I became your friend, I extended a favour to you. Because although we are not equals, although I am directly royalty and you are just a member of royalty, I did a favour to you by accepting you as my friend. HEY KRISHNA, HEY YADAVA, HEY SAKHETI Although you are Krishna and Yadav, still I accept you as my Sakha.
So, that was the idea. So, I thought like this. And this was presumptuous of me.
Why it was? AJANATA MANIMANAM DAVEDAM I did not know your Mahima. And now, why did I not know Mahima? There are two possibilities. Either the Prime Minister of India, the country comes to this room.
Two people will be here disrespectful. One is Pramadar. Person is interrupting.
Who has come? What is the matter? You know, Pramadar. And Pranayaya Nawab. You know, if the Prime Minister’s mother is there.
A big man comes. Sit, sit, sit. So, what will happen is, there is Pranayaya and there is Pramad.
When there is madness and when there is love, then the greatness of the person is forgotten. So, Arjuna, because he is humble, he is not telling Arjun Krishna that actually because of Pranayaya, I forgot it. He is saying, it might have been because of Pranayaya, it might have become of Pranayaya.
Whichever way it is, please forgive me. So, he is taking the humble position over here. He says, So, Pramadar and Pranayaya, what did I do? Echaava haasaartham asat kruto.
See, asat kruto. Improper action. Echaava haasaartham.
So, for the sake of humour. And Bihara shayasana bhoja. So, when we are lying down, we were having fun, we are eating.
And, you know, it’s one thing to make jokes with others when we are alone. Or jokes at the expense of others. But when further other people are present, at that time we make joke over somebody, it is even more demeaning.
But he says, I have done even less. Eko dhava aapne chit achyutam. Tat samaksham.
We are infallible. We never fail anybody. Tat samaksham.
So, please forgive me. So, whatever offences I have committed, please forgive me. So, actually here, in the Bhaktasamya Sunda, it is described that Arjuna Sakhi Ratha is different from the Gopas Sakhas.
Gopal Chamko is a very beautiful book which describes all of Krishna Leela from the perspective of Vraja. So, he says that among all the five Pandavas, why did Krishna like Arjuna the most? So, he said, because Krishna always wants to remember Vrindavan. And Krishna had a Sakha whose name was Arjuna.
So, among the Pandavas, Arjuna reminded him of Vrindavan. That is why Arjuna was most dear to him. in the Lalit Madhav, Krishna tells the twins of Rukmini, you know, actually, I am a coward boy.
And I am not interested in marriage and things like that. The only reason I married all of you is because all of you remind me of the Gopis of Vrindavan. So, actually, the idea is Krishna is completely filled with pleasures.
So, here, our point of discussion is that when Arjuna when the Gopas realise the position of Krishna, for example, after the Govardhan Leela, when Indira and all the other Devas come, Indira does Indira Puja, and Airavata does the Abhishek, so, after that, when the Gopas come, the Gopas don’t apologise. Krishna, you are so great. We do not know that you are so great.
Please forgive. What do the Gopas do? Gopas just continue playing with Krishna. And they take the same R.T. Papadmey.
You can also do what they do. So, what is the value that is? So, the Vrajagopas, Sakya is called Vishwarambha Sakya. And Krishna’s and Arjuna’s Sakya is called Gaurav Sakya.
Gaurav Sakya means that Vishwaribhav is much more there, present. So, that’s why he is offering obeisances and seeking forgiveness. Tadkshamayatma Please forgive me for all my sins.
And then he will say, he will say, why should you forgive? Because actually you are the father of all. You are the supreme person. Vamasya-pujyasya-guru-gariya Vamasya-pujyasya-guru-gariya Pujyasya-guru-gariya Nata-svamosthya-dvidhika-kutonya Nata-svamosthya-dvidhika-kutonya Lak-lo-kutonya Lokatrayetya-pratim-prabhava Lokatrayetya-pratim-prabhava See, the connection between these verses is that, why should I, I should use forgiveness from me? What is the Ajanata Mahimanam? What is it that you do not know about? So this is your Mahima.
What is the Mahima? Pitaasi Lodhkasi Chidamasa Chidamasa Chidamasa You are the Rupa of all living beings. Tamasya Pujyashya Gurur Gariyan So you are actually so Pujya that even greater than the Guru, even greater than everyone else, you are most worshipped. And Methat Samostya Abhidhika Kuton So there is nobody equal to you who can be superior to you.
So he is saying that earlier what did I do? I thought that I was superior to you and I was doing a favour to you by accepting you as my Sakka. But he is saying that what a stupid way it was. Because nobody can even be equal to you.
What to speak of being superior to you? And therefore, Lokatrayate Prateemo Prabha You are so great that in all the three worlds your Prabha, your influence, your power is a Prateema. It is unmatched. It is unparalleled.
So that is why my thinking that I was superior to you is finished. And that is why I should seek forgiveness from you. Then in the next verse, there will be one more reason to seek forgiveness.
Prasmad Pranamya Pranidhamakayam Pranamya Pranidhamakayam Prasadayetvam ahamishyamidhyam eva putrasya sakhe vasakhyo prasya sakhe vasakhyo priya priyayarhaside vasodham priyayarhaside vasodham So, Prasmad Pranamya Pranidhamakayam You see, I offer my full body in front of you. Prasadayetvam Please have mercy on me. Ishmityam You are the Ishwara.
You are worthy of worship. And, please forgive me. So it gives three examples where there may be some intimacy which is inappropriate.
And when the inappropriate intimacy is there still, because of the love in the relationship the inappropriate intimacy is forgiven. So, piteva putrasya sakhe vasakhyo Just as a child sometimes the child may not be very respectful of the parent. The child may just sit on the lap of the parent.
The child’s feet may touch the father’s body. The child may kick the father’s nightly. Piteva putrasya sakhe vasakhyo So, sometimes friends may tease each other.
Priya yaar haside vasod So, a wife may tease the husband. A wife may be frivolous with the husband sometimes. These are intimate relationships where some sort of transgressions of etiquette are forgiven because of the intimacy of the relationship.
So here, this seems to be similar to sakhe vatsalya madhuri The only difference is vatsalya is reversed over here. In vatsalya, the devotee is the parent. Whereas, Arjuna is envisioning that you are the pitra and I am the son.
The idea here is that there are three intimate relationships where inappropriate behaviour is overlooked because of the intimacy. And then after offering obeisances, now he will make a request. adrishta purvam rishito smidrishtva vena cha pradatitam name devame darshaya deva roopam prasidha devesha jadan nivasa So, adrishta purvam, this was never seen before.
Whatever form you are showing me, it was never seen before. Actually, this reference comes three times in the Bhagavad Gita. Where all I had mentioned, I think it was 11.7 or 11.8. Just check it.
adrishta purvam Never seen before. Actually, Krishna is telling it earlier. Now Arjuna is telling it.
So, adrishta purvam comes 11.6. That is, Krishna is telling that it was never shown before. And now it will come twice. Now this verse which we are discussing, 45 and I think it will come again in the next verse also.
It comes once more while discussing. adrishta purvam So, what you are showing is, you have never shown this. And what you have shown to me, rishito smidrishtva I am delighted, jubilant by seeing this.
But at the same time, because there is a Kaala Roopam, Krishna appears in vena cha pradatitam name I have also become very clear. Therefore, kadeva darshame deva roopam Therefore, show me that roopam. Naseeda deveshi jagannam So, this phrase naseeda deveshi jagannam has come earlier also.
In the first time when Arjuna described the Virata. So, kadeva darshame. So, he says show me something else.
Now it is not exactly clear in this verse. Show me more. So, that will become clear in the next verse.
The request will become more explicit. kiritinam dadinam chakrahastam icchami tvam drashtamaham tathaiva tvam drashtamaham tathaiva venaiva roopen chatur bhujena vena chatur bhujena sahasrabhavo bhavishvamurte sahasrabhavo bhavishvamurte So, kiritinam dadinam chakrahastam So, this is clearly referring to the chatur bhuja roopam, rishnu roopam. icchami tvam drashtamaham tathaiva I want to see that form of me also.
And it is not clear. venaiva roopena chatur bhujena I want to see chatur bhuja roopam. And to make it very clear sahasrabhavo bhavishvamurte So, O thousand-armed one, please become four-armed now.
So, please become four-armed now. Ishvamurte You are now currently in universal form. Please become chatur bhuja now.
So, actually this request is significant for several reasons. One is that from the material point of view the virat roopa is far more magnificent, far more impressive. But, from there he wants him to show the chatur bhuja roopam.
Eventually, the saumya roopa will be bhuja roopam. Vishnaldhata. So, if just material greatness were the standard of God’s greatness, then Arjuna should have been happy to see the virat roopa and he will be proud and he says let me always see this.
He doesn’t say that. Let me show now. Please show me now the chatur bhuja and the bhuja roopa.
So, the material conceptions of God’s greatness don’t apply to God in his actual person. Like if somebody has a TV with a thousand channels and says, please give me a two-channel TV. How will you say like that? So, sahasrabhavo bhavishvamurte He says chatur bhuja means sahasrabhavo.
He says sahasrabhavo means chatur bhuja. The idea over here is that just material greatness is not very critical. Or material manifestations of greatness are not necessarily conducive to devotion.
Because Arjuna wants to have a personal relationship with Krishna and that’s what he relishes most. So, he says, please manifest a two-armed one. And he can and let me show it to you.
So, now what will happen after this is Krishna will manifest the two-armed form and then Krishna will offer some 13 beads. So, we’ll continue this tomorrow. And then we’ll go on to the separate chapter.
Is that okay? Are there any questions on this? 1, 2, 3, 4. Okay, I think we should continue the questions tomorrow. Is that okay? Now it’s 6 o’clock. Okay, what we’ll do is we’ll take 5 to 10 minutes more.
5 minutes more. Let’s see how many questions go on in this talk. Yes.
The questions are directly related to this chapter. Then we can discuss. If there are general questions, we can discuss tomorrow.
We’ll have time because 12th chapter is only 20 verses. So, we’ll have time for questions and answers there also. Pram? Okay.
You were telling about, similar to what I think Krishna when we say like we are against the medicine taking. We have faith on Jesus. So, we should not have any diseases.
So, how to inform Prabhupada also relating the doctors traditional practises. So, Prabhupada sometimes neglected the medicines that were given to him. How do we understand that? Now, Prabhupada did not say that that’s what we as his disciples and followers should do.
Prabhupada in a sense, has a See, you know, Prabhupada is an individual. He is a person. When a person he has his individuality.
So, Prabhupada would like to but that means all his followers would like to choose him. No, no, it’s not like that. Prabhupada has an individuality.
So, the individuality has to be locked in this attachment. So, Prabhupada in general Samadrishna Malharraj and T.K.U. Daniel Prabhupada did not quite intolerant to physical pain. So, for example, if a medicine caused him physical pain Prabhupada would see that physical pain as a as a indication that the medicine is very contrary to to the subject matter.
That may or may not have always been the case. It may, whatever it is. So, Prabhupada is a particular person with particular conditions.
Prabhupada, there are many times also, Prabhupada would say that this one is for my mother who is suffering. This will cure this. No, there is no such thing.
So, you know, it’s not that every single aspect of the Acharya is a standard that everyone should have. If Prabhupada, say, as Samadrishna Prabhupada would pronounce tiny as teeny. How does that mean all his followers would have to pronounce it tiny as teeny? No.
So, now, Prabhupada, he did not tell us, there are several letters, one was letters, one was letters. Prabhupada, if you don’t take care of your health, then in the future, you will not be able to serve Krishna. Even if you are very enthusiastic to serve him.
You will have to not be able to serve Krishna. So, what are the… We want that situation. So, let’s go on.
We have to see which aspects of our Acharya are the standard that are being followed by the community and which aspects of our Acharya are his personal characteristics. The personal characteristics from which we may derive inspiration. Some devotees may derive inspiration.
There will be no negative inspiration. That’s what we have seen. So, it’s not that they have… Everything that Prabhupada has emulated exactly in that.
So, the second question is, in the Yuga letter, is it that everybody has become this Nisankarma Yoga or even before Nisankarma Yoga, they are, like, even from Kriyakarma, Karma, they can directly go to the Yuga. Does everyone have to come to Nisankarma Yoga? In the sense of that level, we will have to pass that. But we don’t… As devotees, we will also have to come to Nisankarma Yoga in the sense that we will want to serve Krishna selflessly.
But we won’t… That is not called Nisankarma Yoga for a devotee specifically. Because we are already practising Bhakti Yoga. We will go through that.
We will discuss it in the 12th chapter. It is downward letter. You know, when Krishna talks about sacrifice the fruits of my work for me, he discusses this to me.
So, okay. Yudhishthira has to reward Indra. That’s Vikarma.
Is that also Bhakti Yoga? See, in the scriptures, there is a description of different people of different natures who all surrender to Krishna and become devotees. That doesn’t necessarily mean that their nature has to change. See, now generally we say if somebody is insulted, we should just Amaan na maanate.
But when Guru Maharaj is insulted, what do you do? You go to the forest. When he goes to the forest, actually, there is a verse in Narayana, it says, Ahau teji sa kshatriya maanam hangam amrushita Just see how great are the Kshatriyas that they cannot tolerate disrespect. This is the greatness of somebody who cannot tolerate disrespect.
No, there is a Kshatriya characteristic that Kshatriyas cannot tolerate disrespect. But then, that intolerance of disrespect is used as an impetus to move towards Krishna. So whatever are the innate metaphysical tendencies of one’s body, it’s not necessary that for everyone to change.
But even between those also one can serve Krishna. Guruji is a true Guru. He did not let this person, the devotee, become better than him.
This we can very easily understand. If somebody is obnoxious in front of the person, we can easily understand. That particular technique, what is understood about that is that the Lord has put him in that particular position.
The Lord wants him to serve in that particular position. The disposition of the heart is not revealed necessarily at all times through the external conditions. It is actually revealed only when we understand the inner motive issues.
Vishwa shooting arrow at Krishna, how can we consider it to be God? The calculation is there. But it is a particular issue. So, we can understand the inner motive issue only when we can create a relationship.
And that gives us the heart of the classical Indian hero sports. That means, there are two distinct things over here. One is that often, even when a person becomes ill, the person will continue to act upon his own capability and nature.
Whatever it is. And, even while acting according to that, Krishna can dotale that in Krishna’s insults to bring that person closer to him. That example is Dhrumara in problems of pride, in problems of dishonour being used.
And in some other cases, when a person may act in a inimical way towards Krishna, but that may be some part of Krishna’s extraordinary plan to glorify Krishna. And in those cases, it will be Shiva. Who is the spiritual master for the Pandavas? Well, there is no specific mention there.
Arjuna accepts Krishna as his guru over here in the Bhagavad Gita. Dhaumya is accepted as the priest for performing the sacrifices. Dronacharya is the martial guru of the Pandavas.
He is not exactly the spiritual master. It’s very clear. He is not the spiritual master.
There is no example of the Pandavas going to his home for spiritual knowledge. So, you know exactly that Guru is Krishna, when they get together. In that case, it is Krishna who is actually the spiritual master.
They may have had some other initiating guru also, specifically, when they were, when, after they were born and their sanskaras were performed. But that’s not explicitly mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita. Yes.
Do you have a question? Do you know the question? Yes, we do. Yes, can I question you? Yes, we do. One question is, when we use these words like Vishwaroop, Viratroop, Viratpurusha, Kalaroop, so, they all are used interchangeably or they have specific meanings? So, Vishwaroop, Viratroopa and Viratpurusha, generally, they are similar in meaning.
Kalaroopa is not. Generally, Vishwaroopa is more of pervasion of space. Kalaroopa is sort of pervasion of time.
A vision of what is going to happen in the future. Or instructions of the future. So, we have to see.
So, as I said, if you see the Viratroopa that is described in the Chetan Charita, that is slightly different. You know, here it is described that all the enemies of the Pandavas, all the warriors on the battlefield are entering into the mouth of Viratroopa. So, in the Chetan Charita, in the Chetan and Bhagavata and other places where the Viratroopa is described, the Chetanapurusha, all the Vaishnavapuras are entering into the mouth of the Viratroopa.
So, that means their context may be different and slight revelations may be different. So, we will have to see what it refers to. But Kalaroopa is a categorically different answer.