Gopi Gita Appreciation part 1, The Monk’s Podcast 159 – Amarendra Prabhu and Madhavananda Prabhu

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna Madhavanand Prabhu. Thank you very much for joining the Monks Podcast once again. Our sessions are always very devotionally nourishing, along with of course being intellectually stimulating.
Thank you very much for joining once again today. And Amarendra Prabhu, it is the first time you are in the Monks Podcast. Thank you very much.
There are so many devotees who have asked me, when are you going to invite Amarendra Prabhu. I think since the first month we started the podcast, requests started coming. And recently I told a devotee that you are going to be there on the podcast.
He said that this will take your YouTube channel into the stars. So you are already a star and we are happy to host you here. Thank you Prabhu.
Thank you Krishna. So today, since both of you are connoisseurs of Krishna Bhakti, especially deep and devotional aspects of Krishna Bhakti, I thought of exploring a topic which is just sensitive at the same time vital I felt, that is the Gopi Gita. And I’ll start from what inspired me to suggest this topic and then we can move forward.
One aspect is that this is one of the songs that is sung regularly. In general, I remember when I was introduced to Krishna Consciousness, we used to sing songs, but our teacher, who is a person of interest, he always insisted that we shouldn’t just sing songs, but we should also discuss their meanings. And that was consistent.
And I realised that after we meditated on the meanings, the absorption in singing becomes so much more. And say, for example, apart from the morning programme songs, the other songs that we sing for Damodar Ashtakam, we have so many discussions on the meaning of Damodar Ashtakam. But the Gopi Gita we sing and we practically never discuss their meaning.
And sometimes I’ve seen some devotees even hesitate to read the translations after the singing of the Gopi Gita. It’s very sweet even without the meaning. But in general, it does seem that our tradition is that we do study and we understand.
Siddhanta Baliya Chitthi Na Kare Aalas. We want to go into Rasa, but we also need to understand the Siddhanta. And also, I think Krishna in the Govardhan Leela says that don’t just perform rituals without knowing what you are doing.
So those are the contexts I thought that is important. There are reasons to be cautious while discussing the Raas Leela. And the Gopi Gita within that.
But there are reasons why we need to discuss them also. So this was my thought in choosing this topic. So Madhavanpuru and then Amarindra, you can share what your thoughts are about this topic.
Madhavanpuru, please. Thank you, Rosy. First of all, I think there’s a kind of false dilemma.
We could spend a long time discussing the dilemma. It’s false in one sense that this is a big concern because Srila Prabhupada translated Krishna’s book. And he gave us these five chapters of the Rasa Panchadhyaya, including the Gopi Gita.
And he expected devotees to read it every day. And not only devotees, but he wanted non-devotees to read the book too. So the question is in context, the question is in how it’s presented.
And maybe a lot of us have heard very severe warnings from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and from Srila Prabhupada. The Gopi Club in Los Angeles. Gopi Bhav Club that we famously heard about.
And we have all these different warnings. And they’re good warnings. They’re important.
We shouldn’t take things cheaply. But at the same time, this is part of our literature. And if we don’t understand it, then how can we go forward? My humble suggestion is that with anything in the Bhagavatam, I feel strongly we need to be rooted.
We need to see how this relates to me as a person. Otherwise, if we talk about it, like give you an example. I remember it was about 1971 or 72 that I first came in contact with Prabhupada’s books.
I was a young boy. And I went into an abandoned house we were playing in. And some hippies or someone had put a bunch of pictures from the Krishna book on the walls.
And at that time in my life, I was kind of a searcher. And I was studying different religions and traditions. And I had some pride that I knew something about that topic.
But when I saw these pictures, I could understand it was something religious. But who is this blue boy and all these girls and cows and all these kinds of things? I couldn’t understand it. There was no context they had for it.
So we need to have some understanding about these subjects. But we need to hear them from the right source. We need to be presented in the right way.
And I have some thoughts. I’d like to hear something from Amarendra Prabhu. But I have some thoughts how this is relevant for us through Gauralila and through Shilpa Prabhupada.
So just to clarify what you’re saying is that sometimes we may be present. I understood the situation you said clearly. Sometimes we may think we know our philosophy.
But because we treat this topic with such hesitation, sometimes while presenting our philosophy or encountering our own tradition, we may be caught unawares. We may be unprepared to explain or even encounter what we face. Is that what you’re trying to say by this incident? Yeah.
And we can look at, we were mentioning with you the other day, that our most basic preaching literature in ISKCON is Back to Godhead magazine. And in Boston one year when the editors were having a discussion with Shilpa Prabhupada about standards, someone raised the question, what about the Gopis and Radha? Is it okay to speak about them in Back to Godhead? And Prabhupada said no. And then Prabhupada paused for a moment.
And he said, but not that we boycott the Gopis. We shouldn’t boycott the Gopis. There should be some presentation.
A Krishna book is there. The first book that I started reading before I became a devotee was Teachings of Lord Chaitanya. And there’s a lot about the Gopis and things there also.
Yeah. Get this quote if you don’t mind. It’s an important topic.
Should I read it? Yeah, please. This is meeting with the BTG staff, December 24, 1969, Boston. So there’s a conversation with Prabhupada and Satsvaru primarily.
So a high guru provided an article which apparently talked about the Gopis. It is very nice. It should be published.
Yes, I have seen it. That means we can make a reference to the Gopis. Satsvaru is asking Prabhupada, oh, it is done.
Gopis are boycotted. So Prabhupada is sarcastically speaking over here. And Satsvaru says, no, the Gopis are not boycotted.
The policy should be that the people may not understand Gopis like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the Gopis. It does not mean that we should not utter even the name of Gopis.
We have taken vow to boycott the Gopis. No, they are our worshipful devotees. How can we, how we can avoid them? So I think this is an important quote.
Prabhupada just, as you said, Prabhupada wants to make sure that we do not misunderstand. We do not get a mundane understanding of them. But he does want us to, want us to talk and understand them, about them properly.
You want to elaborate on that quote, Prabhu? Yeah. One thing is that if we do not present the Gopis, other people will present the Gopis. There are dozens or hundreds of different translations and presentations of Gita Govinda, for example.
And when, in the Gaudiya Mutt, when B.V. Narayamaraj presented their edition of the Gita Govinda, it was controversial because that’s a book which generally wasn’t published or discussed in our Gaudiya line. And I’m not championing him or anything, but using him as an example. And he published that book, he said, because if we don’t publish this, and other people do, they should know what is our Gaudiya conception of this.
And I know there’s a number of academics, like Garuda Prabhu and others, who have presented very nicely the Raslila and Gopis and Radha Krishna’s intimate dealings. Because the same point, there’s many academics who are presenting it, but they’re not getting it right. And devotees should have some understanding about it, not just an academic kind of understanding so that we can set the record straight either, but also, as Bhaktivinoda Thakur discusses in some places, in Bhajan Maharshi and others, one of the anarthas in the heart is to not understand our goal, not understand sadhanta properly.
So if we don’t understand what is our goal, if I’m just going to jump in the car and start driving, but I have no idea where I want to go, how am I ever going to get there? Maybe I want to go to Russia, I can drive to Russia from India, but it’s a long, long ways. And if I have no idea how I want to go anywhere, so we should read these books. It’s not that we should lock them all up in a box and burn all the books to the Goswamis or something, but there’s a context for them.
Therefore, Srila Prabhupada gave us Krishna book and Prabhupada wanted us to distribute Krishna book to the non-devotees and wanted them to read it in the included chapters about the Rasalila and the Gopis, but they’re giving in a context. Yeah. So it’s almost like in protecting ourselves from misunderstanding, we end up not protecting others from misunderstanding, because others get understanding from some other sources.
So we have to serve our tradition. That means we must understand properly ourselves and we understand how to help others understand. So I think in that sense, the discussion we are having is not only, we could say, acceptable or compatible with what Prabhupada and Bhaktivinoda Siddhartha said, but in the sense it’s essential because we want to continue to represent their tradition.
Yes. Samarindra, you would like to say something? First of all, I want to express my gratitude for kindly being included here. I don’t know how I find my place here, but I think this world is a world of duality as we were talking about.
So if we have Madhavananda Prabhu on one side, you must have Amarindra on the other side to balance it out. So I somehow, in an insignificant way, express my gratitude. I think I want to start off by saying that I completely agree to everything that Madhavananda Prabhu said.
And Srila Prabhupada writes in one purport that the verses of Srimad Bhagavatam when sung, they entertain the ear and the meanings when understood entertain and give relish to the heart. So I think we are singing the Gopi Geet and we’re getting the melody in the ear, but it’s nice to have forums where we can have some relish for the heart as well by discussing the meaning. On one side, we have the conservative approach where we want to protect and protect and protect and not speak about it.
And on the other hand, we could have the liberal approach of speaking it irrespective of any place, any circumstance, any audience. I personally feel the midway path is very wonderful in this regard. Because by boycotting or by avoiding or neglecting these sections, it will be lost with time.
And we have always seen in our tradition, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came. He gave the very, very rare treasure of Radhadasyam, servitude to the lotus feet of Srimati Radharani, explained by Rupa Goswami. But then we saw there was a phase or time period after sunshine.
There was a time period in our Gaudiya history, which was filled with dark clouds. And then we had to have Srila Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur and Baladeva Vidyabhushan to come and clear the clouds of confusion and misunderstanding and show the blazing, effulgent light of the sun of the true Siddhanta. It happened again when Bhaktivinoda Thakur came and he cleared the clouds of upper sampradaya misunderstandings.
And then it’ll happen again and again. So if we don’t present the right philosophy in the right devotional mood, again, based on the commentaries of our Acharyas, then it could be a possibility that maybe 100 years from now, this will be lost. No one will speak about it.
And the treasure of the Ras Panchadhyay, and we have the five chapters in the 10th canto 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33. And the Gopi Gita is actually the heartbeat in the middle. It’s the central, it’s the third chapter out of the five.
So it’s almost like the central backbone of the Ras Panchadhyay, which is the backbone of the 10th canto. And the 10th canto is the backbone of the Srimad Bhagavatam. And Srimad Bhagavatam is the essence of everything that exists.
So if like-minded devotees don’t discuss it, then what juice will we taste on the path of bhakti? If we can discuss Netflix, if we can discuss politics, if we can discuss entertainment, if we can discuss sports, if we can discuss gossip, if we can discuss the faults of others, and so many other things. What’s wrong in discussing in the right mood, context, from the right source, in anugatya, under guidance. The beautiful, wonderful commentaries and the wonderful conclusions of Krishna’s dealings with his associates.
And finally, I want to mention even Shrila Shukdev Goswami in the concluding Phala Shruti, the last verse of the Ras Panchadhyay. He says, He says that the biggest problem in this world is lust. And he says, This very special transcendental pastime, plural sense has been used, which means the Gopis with Vishnu, which is Krishna, the Supreme Lord.
What happens with this vikridita, this very special pastime of Krishna with the Gopis? Shraddhanvita, with Parabhakti, or let’s say with unparalleled and unprecedented faith. Right. That’s, that’s the worst right there.
With that faith, Shraddha, Anvita, Anushrunuyat, if this is heard with faith in the heart repeatedly, and Athavarnayat, and also described in proper mood, in proper context, then Bhakti Param, Parabhakti means Brajbhakti, Parabhakti, Raganuga Bhakti, Parabhakti, Bhakti Param, Bhagavati Prati, The transcendental form of Bhakti comes in the heart and kicks out the lower taste of lust, which is what is shackling everyone in this world. Even Shrila Prabhupada has said, if someone is agitated by lust, then they must hear and read the pastimes of Krishna with the Gopis. But again, it’s not a blanket statement, it must be done under guidance, Anugatya.
As Rupa Goswami has also said, in the eighth verse of the Upadesha Amrita, Under guidance of an exalted, at least a Madhyam Adhikari, Madhyam Madhyam, as Shrila Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur describes, being under the guidance of an exalted, steady, fixed up devotee, according to Siddhanta and Rasa Tattva, and under his guidance, serving, hearing Hari Katha, then some, it may start with some theoretical understanding, but then by doing bhajan, chanting the holy name and serving the sadhus in those conceptions, then some realisation may come. So, I think this is the higher taste that Krishna is talking about. This Paramdrishti, Paradrishti is given through Shukadeva Goswami and by Prabhupada, as Sripada Madhavananda Prabhu was explaining, through the Krishna book, Prabhupada has opened the doors to Brajaparame, to the whole world.
So, these are my thoughts to begin with. Beautiful. Thank you.
When you are talking about the conservative and liberal, which is a constant tension, one thing that has struck me in the last few months is that although we have the word conservative, just being conservative is not enough to conserve. So, yes, it’s important, we say conservative is to preserve, but things change. Things change.
Say, if you have a garden, you want to protect the garden, but sometimes to protect the garden also means to let the garden grow. It doesn’t mean just to keep it in the same condition and the atmospheric conditions change. Say, in heat, the garden needs a particular kind of things to nourish.
In cold, it needs a particular kind of things to nourish. So, in one sense, conserving itself involves both keeping, it involves, to some extent, keep something unchanging and keep something we adapt. So, it’s important that, so for preserving this Bhakti Lata Beej in our heart or the Bhakti Lata Beej that is passed on in our tradition, at one side, we need to protect the right understanding, but to protect the right understanding, that right understanding has to be imparted.
If you just keep saying that don’t have the wrong understanding, but then who is going to give the right understanding? It’s a very important point. And then second point is, this particular verse, probably we’ll come back to this again, it’s such a vital verse, because it’s in one sense so counterintuitive that the Ras Leela at a mundane level appears to be interaction between males and females. And normally hearing about that increases the desire to engage at that level with someone, but the Ras Leela is promising the opposite result.
So, this verse in that sense indicates very boldly the transcendental nature of the Ras Leela itself. So, I think we’ll come back to this later. But yes, this is, so we can say our discussion that we are trying to have is also meant for this purpose.
That how we can Bhaktim Param Lagvati Pratilabdha Kaamam. How can we increase our devotion and how can we remove the selfish desires from our heart? So, yes, true. Madandru, you want to comment, reflect on anything said and spoken till now? Bhaktivinoda Thakur, since we should stress, it’s a good thing to start, I think, if we’re going to have this discussion, it’s good to start with some caution.
Are you still there? Yes, yes. Something funny happened with my screen. Bhaktivinoda, in Chaitanya-siksa-amrita, he says very strongly, Jada Bhadajiva Krishna Leela Shravane Anadikari.
That someone who’s a Bhadajiv, who’s conditioned by this material nature, Krishna Leela Shravane Anadikari. They have no qualification to hear Krishna’s pastimes. And Bhaktivinoda stresses that in his comments.
Not everybody’s qualified to read these things daily. And especially he’s referring there to Ashtakaliya Smarana, which is something which requires some qualification. But when we look at this important verse, which Amarendra Prabhu thankfully brought up.
First of all, the context of the verse is very interesting. Vishnu Chakravarthi Thakur says that Maharaja Pariksit, he was looking around while Sukadeva Goswami was speaking all these things about gopis, and how Sukadeva Goswami is speaking about how Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is having some meetings and exchanges with all these married ladies. And Maharaja Pariksit’s looking around, he sees so many conservative sadhus and sages there, who they want to stress Vanashram Dharma, they want to stress marriage and sanctity of the marriage vows and things.
And he saw that they were maybe becoming a little disturbed. Is this okay to do? And then Sukadeva Goswami replied with this verse. And it’s very, very important.
We should hear this with faith. We have to have some person that we have faith in, that we’re hearing from. And therefore, we find in some universities, they study the Gopi Gita.
They study the Rasa Panchadhyaya. But if they’re not hearing from a devotee in our line, they’re not hearing from someone in the line of Rupa Goswami, and they’re not hearing with faith, then they’re not going to understand it properly. So, this is such a very, very important point.
So, if we consider the caution, the purpose of the caution is that, my understanding would be twofold. First is that there is the default tendency within us and as living beings in the material world to get agitated because there are impressions in our mind. And in some ways, among the various pastimes of Krishna, the pastimes of the Gopis can easily be misunderstood.
So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura is saying that we don’t have the Adhikar to hear. So, at one level, we can say that, yes, we don’t have the Adhikar, but how are we ever going to get the Adhikar? It is through purification and purification also happens through the practise of Bhakti. I write on the Gita every day.
So, one article I wrote some time ago is that, in Bhakti, we are always unqualified, but we are never disqualified. So, we don’t have the qualification, but that doesn’t mean we are ruled out, we are rejected. So, we still have the opportunity with the blessings of senior devotees and the blessings of Paracharyas to try to enter and try to gain some understanding.
There is also a danger in Bhakti, which Bhaktivinoda Thakura brings out in Chaitanya Sikshamrita, which is the obstacle on our path known as Dhenukasura. In Dhenukasura, when he sees the boys climbing the trees and getting the tall fruits, he becomes very, very agitated and he starts complaining, as only a donkey can, making this very loud hee-haw kind of sound, protesting, you can’t do that. And Bhaktivinoda Thakura comments that this represents an obstacle to Bhakti, wherein we want to stay in a lower rung, we become envious and we see people going for the fruits, something higher, and we just want to make a noise, complaining about it.
Again, as all of us have been commenting, the problem is not with the subject matter. The subject matter shouldn’t be lost, as Amarendra Prabhu was so nicely stating, but it has to be presented, Anugatya, with guidance, it has to be presented in the right way. And then it’s so important, and brand new people, devotees, were going in the 60s and 70s to rock concerts, I used to do it myself sometimes, and you go to places and it looked like there was a cloud, it looked like there was a fog, the fog was marijuana smoke.
And you’re a poor brahmachari, you’re going to these cars, and sometimes there’s couples doing things we don’t want to talk about in the car, when you walk up there, they’re going there for a rock concert, and they’re coming there to give them this Krishna book. And people were taking it, and we want them to read it, and Prabhupada knew that they were so grossly unqualified, but he still wanted them to have that Krishna book. Otherwise, what is the hope for them? If we don’t have, if we can’t talk about the gopis, if nobody understands the excellence, the ultimate perfection of their love, then what example do we have? If we just have some kind of rather impersonal understanding that God is there in a cloud, like we see in a lot of Western religions, and there’s no reciprocation so much with his devotees, there’s no example of the great devotees, then how are people going to become attracted? If we don’t understand something about the gopis and Radha, then what is the difference between us and the Sri Vaishnavas, or the Madhva Vaishnavas? What is the speciality of Gaudiya Vaishnavas? If all that we can talk about is Vanashram Dharma and regulated principles, which are important, but then how are we any different than so many Hindus, and so many impersonals? One difference is that a lot of the impersonals, sometimes they follow those principles better than the devotees.
Bhaktivinoda Thakur brings that point up. I would also like to add, if that’s okay, at this point, I also feel that in all our temples, we have Radha Krishna on the altar. The songs that we sing glorify Radha Krishna.
We say, Hey Krishna, Karuna, Sindhu and Tattva Kanchana, Gaurangi. But at the same time, when let’s say an outsider comes and asks us a question, who is Radha? Then it’s almost like shivers down the spine. And then if this question is extended further, wait a minute, who are those two Matajis on either side, Lalita and Vishaka? Then, we are evaporating out of fear.
And then what to speak of Ashtasakhis in Mayapur? And then 16,108 Gopis. And then when we have people saying that Krishna is lusty, or we say, why did Krishna not marry Radha? What is Parakiya Bhav? How is Radha? If Rukmini was married by Krishna, then why don’t you have Rukmini on the altar? And why Radha? Why did Prabhupada say Radha Shamsundar and Radha Rasvi Hari and Radha Madha? So, I think every ISKCON devotee should be able to stand up and protect the integrity of the deities and the Sampradaya that we are fortunate to be part of. Anybody coming from outside and asking questions about why do you have these sections in your scriptures? We should have the right arrows to protect our lordships.
And it’s important, I think, to note who is speaking the Gopikita? Who is narrating this section? And it’s interesting at the start of the Ras Panchadhyay, it doesn’t say Shuka Uvacha. It doesn’t say Rishi Uvacha. It says Badarayani Uvacha.
And Badarayani is a name of Shukadev Goswami being the son of Vyasadev. Vyasadev is called Badarayana. He’s called Badarayana because he took shelter of the Badara trees in the middle of the forest, praying and begging to get a son who can carry this current ahead.
And as the fulfilment of his austerity, the son who appeared to fulfil that mission is Shukadev. Therefore, he’s called Badarayani. And how detached is he? He can’t even know the difference between male and female.
As soon as he appears, you know, he’s even giving up the association of his own father. He doesn’t even have clothes on. What to speak of clothes on? He doesn’t even know if his body is on or off.
That’s the level of his realisation for Shukadev Goswami. And he’s speaking. And who is listening to this? It is Parikshit Maharaj.
Someone who saw Vishnu Ratena Samprishto Bhagavan Badarayani. Someone who saw the Supreme Lord while being in the womb. Now we are hearing Srimad Bhagavatam to see Krishna someday.
And here is someone who saw Krishna hearing Srimad Bhagavatam. So he definitely knows the difference between Gramyakatha and Krishnakatha. So the speaker is that exalted.
The Vama Hasta Vilasa Shuka sitting on the left hand of Srimati Radharani. The parrot comes in this world as Shukadev Goswami. That’s the calibre of the speaker.
And the calibre of the listener is someone who has seen the Supreme Lord. And at the same time he is on his departing bed. Like on his departure bed.
He is almost departing in another two days. So even conditioned souls like me on my departure bed, on my deathbed will not like to hear some mundane romance of any boy and girl of this world. What to speak of Parikshit Maharaj? And let’s say Shukadev Goswami went off topic.
Let’s say Parikshit Maharaj went off balance. You have Narada Muni and Parashara Muni and all these great Vyasadev himself, all these great Vaishnavas sitting in the assembly. And where is all this happening? It’s happening on the banks of the Ganga.
Even a conditioned soul will not speak things like this on the banks of the Ganga if it’s mundane. And on the banks of the Ganga, Shukadev Goswami, Badarayuni speaks to Parikshit Maharaj, protected by the Lord himself in the womb in the assembly of great sages while he is departing. And it’s not that he’s speaking off topic.
He’s building Canto 1 to Canto 9. And then after that, after speaking Brajalila, he can just dip down with Rasa Bhasa to Kama Shastra, speaking mundane, romantic, lusty affairs of boys and girls in this world. So the Rasa is just going higher and higher and higher and exploding at the Gopi Geetha. So I think we need to, if not understand the details, at least understand as devotees in the Gaudiya Parampara, we should be motion ready irrespective of whoever that is because if there’s an attack tomorrow on our Siddhanta, we should be able to stand in the middle of the street and protect the integrity of all the great Acharyas who lived lives writing commentaries on these sections.
And let’s say everyone went wrong. Let’s say Vyasadev went wrong, Shukadev Goswami went wrong, Parikshit Maharaj went wrong, Ganga Devi did not object and all the sages, this is how when the Gopi Geetha was sung, he embraced Maharaj Pratap Rudra. Tawa Katha Mrita Shloka Raja je padila uthi prema veshe Prabhu alinga na kaila Kabiraj Goswami says, Mahaprabhu accepted Maharaj Pratap Rudra on the basis of the Gopi Geetha.
And then let’s say Mahaprabhu was also off track. Now I’m playing the devil’s advocate here, not sounding offensive, but just the devil’s advocate. All our Acharyas, all their lives writing commentaries.
So first of all, I think we have to, everyone must understand the sanctity, the transcendence, the unparalleled, unparalleled transcendental position of Krishna’s dealing with the Gopis. Who is Krishna? Who are the Gopis? What is Vrindavan? What is Prem Tattva? What is Srimad Bhagavatam? And what is the Ras Panchatya? And then maybe the details can be left for the future time to come. But at least this fundamental understanding should be there.
But if this is not there, then neither can we benefit others in our preaching when these topics are asked, nor can we protect our Siddhanta from the attacks of the atheists. And nor can we go deeper in our own faith. Because with time, we ourselves are not convinced.
So I think our Acharyas have toiled, whether it’s in Sanskrit, whether it’s in Bengali, whether it’s in English by Srila Prabhupada. So I think these topics are very important. May not be in all assemblies, but they must be discussed.
So, some thoughts. Yes, Prabhu. Thank you.
So both ways, to give what is special and to defend what is evident. What you said, what Madananda said, that the Gaudiya tradition, what is its special contribution? So we need to give that. And also because the other specialities are already there.
So it’s important for us to defend. Thank you. Madananda, you had mentioned that you want to respond to what he said? I just like to offer a quick comment that we know things within the box of our vision, what we’ve experienced.
And for the most part, most of our ISKCON devotees are new to Bhakti. And we accept what Srila Prabhupada gave as absolute. But we don’t sometimes see the context that Srila Prabhupada gave it in.
For example, the song Jai Radha Madhav is not sung in most Gaudiya mutt temples because it’s considered to be too confidential, too intimate a song. For example, the Tulsi prayers that we have, they’re outlawed in most of the Gaudiya mutt temples. They have another song that they sing because this song is all about Manjaribab and Gopibab.
And it’s a very, very intimate, very, very high song. But Srila Prabhupada gave that to these drunken, drug-crazed hippies in the very beginning. Prabhupada obviously had some vision.
If you come, which you all should, to Jagannath Puri, there are so many temples in India. If you go to the Jagannath Mandir as we were speaking recently with some devotees about, you’ll find erotic sculptures and if you go to Konark, you’ll find them. If you go to Alamnath, if you go to the Bhuvaneshwar temple, you’ll find so many temples all over India, you’ll find it.
What do those sculptures mean? Ultimately, for Gaudiya Vaishnavas, they’re referring to Madhurja Ras and the Gopis. We should understand that this is part of our culture. During a Ratha Yatra, there’s a tradition where they have a speaker on the cart and he speaks all kinds of nasty kind of things.
He speaks about very intimate topics between the boys and girls. How do we understand those things? There’s a different perspective in Vaishnava and Vedic culture than we generally have coming from the West. We should bear in mind what Srila Prabhupada gave, but at the same time, we should also understand that these things are not illegal.
Prabhupada gave Jayarathamada, and as you were mentioning, both of you, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He embraced Maharaja Prataparudra when he was saying, My Guru Maharaj, once I asked him a very controversial question. I was doing some research and some studying about things and I asked him if it was okay for me to read Govinda Lilamrita. Once Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati came to Bhaktivinoda Thakur and said that he’d like to print Govinda Lilamrita.
Bhaktivinoda said, Very good idea. You should make two copies, one for you and one for me. It’s a very confidential book.
My Guru Maharaj was encouraging me to read different things and I thought, Well, I’ll just push the button. What about Govinda Lilamrita? He said, Yes. And I said, Yes, I’ll read Govinda Lilamrita.
And I’d like to suggest that this is a doorway through which we can go to access these topics. We have to go through Guru Gauranga. We can’t try to access these topics in any other way.
When we take devotees around in Parikrama here in Jagannath Puri, we present it in a certain frame, in a box, just like a painting. If it has a frame, it becomes more beautiful and you can understand the context of the painting. So we present it like this.
We call it the Jagannath Puri University of Brajprem. That this is a university. The purpose of this place for us, we can go at it through what Prabhupada calls Smartha Vichar, or the attitude of the Smartha Brahmins, or we can approach it through what Prabhupada called Goswami Vichar.
And we want to approach it through that. So the Jagannath Puri University of Brajprem means this is a place where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to teach us how to do bhajan. And each different Tirtha Sthali is a classroom in that university, which represents, and this is the way we present it, a particular lesson in bhajan for us to approach braj.
And it begins, the first school is the Jagannath Mandir, which has several different lessons, which has problems. But in spite of all the problems in organised religion, they wouldn’t allow Haridas Thakur inside, Rupan Sant and Goswami couldn’t go inside. Still, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, according to Lord Chandas Thakur and Sri Caitanya Manga, was going there four times a day to have darshan of Lord Jagannath.
He was supporting organised religion. But nearby he had another place, which is the Gambhira, which was very, very intimate. And one of the classrooms in the Jagannath Puri University of Brajpram is Jagannath Vallabha Gardens.
And that’s the place where the Gopi Gita was spoken. And this Gopi Gita is a very integral part of Gauralila. We may say, I can’t read this section of the Bhagavatam, but are you going to read Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrita? Are you going to try to approach Chaitanya Mahaprabhu? What are you living for? How are we going to make any progress at all? So what is that, in the 14th chapter of the Madhya Lila, which comes just after the Ratha Yatra Festival, Madhya 13, we hear about Mahaprabhu during the Ratha Yatra.
If we say that Jagannath Puri is Vipralambha Khetra, which is a phrase given by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, Vipralambha Khetra, you may say, the place of separation, it’s the ocean of separation, the highest wave in that ocean would be the Ratha Yatra Festival. And that Ratha Yatra represents both union and separation at the same time. Union is there because it represents the mood of the gopis meeting Krishna, Kurukshetra.
But there’s also separation because they’re very conscious that you left us. They’re very conscious that in a few days you’re going to go back again to Dwaraka. So the Ratha Yatra represents bringing Krishna to our hearts, the village of Vrindavan, which represents our hearts.
And there’s union and feelings of separation. So the climax of that comes in the Gopi Gita. And Jiva Goswami, in his commentary, in the first verse of Gopi Gita, he points out that the gopis are saying that let our words be known because people who hear this Gopi Gita who are suffering from separation, they’re going to get some mitigation from their suffering.
There’s some purpose to this. In our BBT chapter summary, it describes about this chapter that there’s a purpose to this Gopi Gita that it helps people to understand separation, helps them to come together with Krishna. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvati Thakur, I’m told, once said that you should not speak about topics of Radha and Krishna in public.
He said, but if you speak about separation, there’s some context for that. Because if you don’t speak about separation, then how are we going to understand Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Because If you don’t understand Radha, you can’t understand Duranga Mahāprabhu. And conversely, if you don’t understand Mahāprabhu, you can’t understand Rādhārāṇī.
So, if the highest wave in this ocean of separation is Arādhyātra, then the peak of that wave happens in Jagannātha Vallabha Gardens. When Mahārāja Pratyaparūḍa goes there and he speaks this Gopi Gita to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and then Mahāprabhu says, You are the most munificent person because you’re giving me this Gopi Gita. How do we understand that? Is this a nice story? Well, that’s some history.
I can go there and visit the place and read something about it. It has some relevance for me. And what it means is that even though you may be the king of poor, you may be something which is considered a very mundane person.
Mahāprabhu refused to see Gajapati Mahārāja, the king of poor, Mahārāja Pratyaparūḍa. You may be very fallen in the sense that you have lots of wives and you’re dealing with mundane things, but if you sing this Gopi Gita for the pleasure of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and that’s a very important, subtle point. Govinda Līlāmṛitā is there in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, in the Gambhira.
It’s being spoken by Śrī Rūpa Dāmodara and Raya Rāmānanda and they’re not singing it for their pleasure. That’s the first thing. We shouldn’t be singing these things for our pleasure, but we do it for the pleasure of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
And this is the Gambhira-bhajan pranāli. Sometimes devotees, they think that all these things are illegal, but how can we approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu unless we understand the Gambhira? Gaura-līlā, in that sense, we say it’s like a cake and a cake has two parts. It has the bread part, the sponge part, and it has the icing part.
And the bigger part is the sponge part. And similarly, we have two Vaiṣṇavas who approach Gaura-līlā and some just want the bread part. And they say that the icing part is illegal.
The icing part means the very sweet, intimate pastimes in the Gambhira. And the bread part, that’s Mahāprabhu’s preaching and speaking about Bhagavad-gītā and doing Ratha-yātrā in public with so many people. And generally, we see that there are certain Vaiṣṇavas, a lot of the Babajis, they like the icing part and they’re not so much interested in the bread part.
And then some other Vaiṣṇavas, especially in Gaudiya Matha, in ISKCON, we stress the bread part. But both have to be there. If you only have the sponge part of the cake, any child can tell you it’s very, very dry.
Or if you just only try to eat the icing, how many kgs of icing can you eat? You’re going to become very, very sick. Both things are required. So there has to be, we have to have some understanding of these intimate pastimes also.
And if we approach them in the mood that we hear, that Śrī Upadhāmonda and Rāmānanda are doing, they’re not reciting it because, wow, this is really erotic, I really like this. They’re not even thinking I’m going to make advancement by reading this. Some devotees, they read the books because I’m going to make advancement.
They’re speaking these things for the pleasure of Mahāprabhu, as a service for Mahāprabhu. And so, it’s a lesson that we can learn. Mahārāja Pratyaparūḍa is approaching in that way.
He pleases Mahāprabhu and thereby, he makes a connection with Mahāprabhu. He’s accepted. Whereas before, Mahāprabhu wouldn’t accept him.
I don’t want to even see the face of a king. You’re a viṣayā, you’re a materialistic person, you’re dealing with politics, you’re dealing with women and money and so many things. Another point that we could understand from this pastime within the context of the Jagannāpura University of Brecht-Prem is who is Mahārāja Pratyaparūḍa.
According to Kavi Karnapura in Guru Granthadeśa Deepika, he’s Indrajyumna Mahārāja. So, what is the context if we see him as Indrajumna Mahārāja? Indrajumna Mahārāja is that personality who brought Lord Jagannāth. He’s responsible for having the deity that Dāru brought and Lord Jagannāth being brought there.
So, he’s giving Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Jagannāth Kṛṣṇa in the form now of the Gopī Gītā. So, if we recite Gopī Gītā for the pleasure of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, for the pleasure of Śrīla Prabhupāda, we must be very, very pleased. As Amaranda was saying, instead of reciting something Netflix or some news or sports or something, we’re reciting Prabhupāda’s books which also in the BBT commentary, the first verse it speaks about and they’re paraphrasing Jīva Goswāmī and Sanātana Goswāmī and Viṣṇu Cakravartākara’s commentaries how sweet the Gopī Gītā is and how it should be recited and understanding this Bhakti Charu Mahārāja, he famously made a wonderful recording of the Gopī Gītā which is listened to in many different temples.
So, that’s wonderful we should have that but, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you’re conveying this meeting between the three of us because we have Bhakti Charu Mahārāja reciting Gopī Gītā Prabhupāda or the BBT commentary saying we should recite it but, what does it mean? And if we don’t have some understanding of what it means and what context it’s in and therefore, I would like to suggest that if we see the Gopī Gītā as an integral part of Gaurālīla, if we see the Gopī Gītā the recitation of it as Mahārāja Pratyaparudra was doing as a doorway for us to please Caitanya Mahāprabhu and to make a connection with Him then, I think that’s a door I can go through. That’s a very striking point about what you said, Jagannath Puri University of Rajya Prema that itself is striking and this is your terminology I presume? Prabhu, this is your terminology? The Jagannath Puri University of Rajya Prema. Yeah, it’s beautiful.
The point that I thought was very striking is that ultimately it’s a it’s this is the heart of Lord Chaitanya Mahāprabhu actually when you are speaking about that what I started if we are going to talk about love and selfless love or divine love the highest exemplars are the Gopīs. So we get that example from many places and Lord Chaitanya Mahāprabhu himself considered it so special that he wanted to explore it. So, in one sense if we are not if we are we don’t try to understand it at least then we are how are we really following Chaitanya Mahāprabhu? So, as you said we are doing it for pleasure of Chaitanya Mahāprabhu that’s how we follow him.
So, I think overall this level of contextualisation was vital. If you Amarindra Prabhu you want to add anything more on this? Yeah, I really like this point of doing bhajan for the pleasure of Mahāprabhu. I was speaking to this senior devotee very exalted devotee and I asked him we were just confidentially talking and I said I have no taste in chanting and he is someone who is chanting I think two lakhs every day.
So, I asked him if you may so bless me with this with this mood to chant what’s your what’s your thought process? How do you want to chant? Why do you want to chant? So, he said there could be different reasons to chant. He said you can have different people either you can have the consciousness of chanting I don’t want to go to hell for the reactions that are coming so the holy name will protect me but he said that’s like using a brahmastra to kill a mosquito. I really like that.
He said it’s like using a brahmastra to kill a mosquito. He said the name of Krishna is like a brahmastra. It’s a very powerful atomic spiritual atomic bomb and reactions from the past are like mosquitoes.
Don’t do that. Then he said there are those who chant the holy name just out of responsibility that they have given their word to their Guru Maharaj and they have they got initiated so I must keep my word. I’ve got a human form.
It’s out of responsibility. Like Bhaktivinod Thakur says there are four levels in which you can operate bhakti and one out of fear one out of duty one out of the fourth is out of fear the third is to fulfil a material desire the second is out of duty and the first is out of love. So he went through all of that.
He said you can chant out of fear that I don’t want to go to hell so Oh Krishna Oh Krishna please protect me or he said the third context after the fourth would be if I chant I can fulfil whatever is lacking in my life whatever material desires I have they will be fulfilled the second would be out of duty and he said the first is out of love so he said we should rise to the first so I said then how do we do that? He said I’ll tell you what I do he said Mahaprabhu says Mukhe Hari bol bhai ei matra bikha chai that the only arms I’m begging as a sanyasi is you please chant so he said I almost envision Nithyananda Prabhu and Haridas Thakur at my doorstep and he said do you want them to ring your doorbell and fall at your feet and make you chant no open the door and chant that Nithai Oh Haridas Oh Mahaprabhu is that all is that all that you want from me you want me to chant I will chant and then he said didn’t Mahaprabhu have this mood right from childhood when there used to be Kirtan he used to smile and when there is no Kirtan he used to start crying as Nimai Vishwamble so he said so I should I think that if I start chanting my Mahaprabhu is crying and if I start chanting he’s smiling as the baby and then as Shri Krishna Chaitanya all that he wants as a Yati Varashiromani the best among sanyasis all that he wants from me is to chant so I just chant for his pleasure so I think that conception that I received from him was resonating with the point that you just made to do bhajan Krishna Bhakti for the pleasure of Mahaprabhu I’m also reminded of how Prabodhananda Saraswati he mentions Yatha Yatha Gaurapadara Vindeta Bhaktim Krita Punya Rashi he gives a very beautiful transcendental example of the gravitational pull the effect of the gravitational pull that the moon has on the waves of the ocean as the moon increases in size the attractive potency to invoke the waves and tides in the ocean also increases so he mentions that the ocean is actually the ocean of Krishna Bhakti Radha Krishna Bhakti and the moon represents Gaurav Bhakti so as the moon of our Gaurav Prem or Gaurav Bhakti increases qualitatively and quantitatively it will automatically pull tides and waves on the ocean of Radha Dasyam so with you to the lotus feet of Radha and Krishna so I think that connection between Mahaprabhu’s pleasure of Mahaprabhu and approaching the lotus feet of Mahaprabhu automatically bringing in waves and tides of emotional ecstasies towards Krishna Leela is making sense and also I’m reminded how Prabodhananda Saraswati in Navadeep Shataka he makes this point that Araditam Navavanam Vrajakananaste Naraditam Navavanam Vrajaeva Dure Aradito Dvijasuto Vrajanagaraste Naradito Dvijasuto Nataveha Krishna he says that if the 12 forests of Vrindavan have to be worshipped then just worship the nine islands of Navadweep Araditam Navavanam if the nine forests the nine islands of Navadweep are worshipped then Vrajakananaste the Vrajakanana the forests of Vraja are worshipped and if Naraditam Navavanam if if we kind of bypass or boycott Gaurav Tattva and Gaurav Dham Vrajaeva Dure the conception of Vraja Bhakti is far away and Aradito Dvijasuto if we worship the son of Jagannath Mishra the the best among Brahmanas which is Mahaprabhu then Vrajanagaraste that’s the worship of the hero of Vrindavan Krishna and Naradita Dvijasuto if we don’t worship and we don’t serve Mahaprabhu Nataveha Krishna then our Krishna Bhakti will not sustain and not pass the test of time so I think these are some thoughts that I feel inspired to share in in in line with approaching Gopi Gita and the Ras Panchadhyay and the this the confidential pastimes of Krishna in Vraja through the beautiful wonderful door of Gaur Lila I think it’s like Gaur Lila is the torch to get to the the dark confidential groves of Vrindavan which is dark the night of Sharad Purnima the groves are dark but the torch of Gaur Bhakti helps the Gaudiya Vaishnav navigate through these not just through the groves but also through the verses of Gopi Gita and the the person holding that torch is Gurudev he’s guiding us and therefore Chaitanya Chaitanya says that what is my Guru Seva that’s my Nambhajan what is my Nambhajan that’s my Guru Seva this is the the important quality given by Gaudiya Vaishnava is that Krishna himself has come in the mood of Radha to try to understand these three things he’s come to do Radha Bhajan as one commentator describes that this is why he appeared during the Chandra Grahana Chandra Grahana means to grasp and Mahaprabhu came because Chandra Chandra refers to Radha who’s like a moon and he wants people to be able to grasp Radha and how can we grasp Radha by doing Krishna Bhajan he wants to give us Radha but not that we come and we do Radha Bhajan because Radharani won’t appreciate that if you do Radha Bhajan Krishna will be pleased but we do Krishna Bhajan and Radharani becomes pleased and we get her mercy so similarly if we do this Nambhajan just as any book distributor can tell you when you go on the street you give someone a book you tell them something they say wow this is great what should I do and then you say well I have this card chant this mantra and you give them and they say wow and they start chanting the Hare Krishna mantra how happy you feel this is the perfection of my life somebody’s chanting the Hare Krishna mantra I’m just a dull mundane creature how happy my Gurudev must feel when he sees me chanting so this chanting as Amarendra was beautifully pointing out I can just imagine Nittay and Haridas coming to my door am I going to refuse am I going to close the door I have to before they come I want to say yes I’ve already given I’ll give more and more what can I give to you so this is the alms my Gurudev is asking also and because he’s doing it this is the kirtan of our sampradaya that all the gopis they’re trying to assist Radharani in her feelings of separation and then when when Krishna comes in the mood of Radha the same gopis come Lalita comes as Rupa Damodara Vishaka comes as Ramananda Rupa Manjari comes as Rupa Goswami Tulsi Manjari comes as Raghunath Das Goswami and others and they’re assisting Krishna in those feelings of separation to do that nambhajan so that he can taste that and then they’re engaging their assistants who are engaging their assistants who are engaging their assistants who are engaging Shilobhakta Siddhanta Sarasvati who’s engaging Shilobhakta Prabhupada who’s engaging our Guru Janas this is the kirtan of our sampradaya we’re all doing this we’re engaged in this kirtan to help Krishna to taste the mood of Radha but there’s also separation my grandma used to say this is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and this is Jagannath Puri there’s two opposites in one container both union and separation that’s our Hare Krishna mantra and that’s Gopi Gita I was just actually going to say that I was actually thinking how wonderfully Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu is connecting that the Sankirtan movement of Mahaprabhu is non-different than the Gopi Gita on the banks of the Yamuna because there’s so much similarity between the two one there’s darkness the night of Sharad Purnima so that we could say well that’s the darkness of Kali Yuga of Tamas that’s transcendental darkness and this is material darkness of course in this world so the darkness of Kali Yuga here and then there’s the darkness of the night there Gopis are in union which means Sanga Kirtan not Japa but Samya Kirtan and Sanga Kirtan complete Kirtan but in congregational chanting and the Srimad Bhagavatam is saying very wonderfully Iti Gopya Pragayanta Pralapantya Chitradha Ruruduhu Susvaram Rajan Krishna Darshan Adalasa Dasam Aavir Bhuhu Chauri Smaya Maana Mukham Pujam Pitam Varadhara Shragvi Sakhrad Manmatha Manmatha the two verses of the 32nd chapter after the the Gopi Gita in fact the the reunion let’s say of Krishna coming back and meeting the Gopis so that is those are the three ingredients of the Sankirtan movement of Mahaprabhu what are the three ingredients Shukdev Goswami says that the Gopis had three moods one Iti Gopya Pragayanta they were singing they were nicely singing and how were they singing from the throat but at the same time Pralapantyas Chitradha Ruruduhu they were crying so there were many words which were coming from the throat and there were a lot of emotions rolling down the cheek in the form of tears so one voice very sweet singing of the names of Krishna two tears rolling from the eyes and three the heart desires Krishna Darshana Lalasa the desire to see Krishna so it’s almost like the eyes the throat and the heart are in the same line this tears coming from the eyes this throat which is singing and and imbued with so much ecstatic love in the form of Sankirtan and the heart longs for the darshan of Krishna and when these three things are together the hero appeared to the scene it’s almost like sarcasm Shukdev Goswami speaking from the side of the Gopis that now after making my Radhika cry now comes the hero the show reappeared and with a smile that I am being defeated the cupid of all cupids so that’s this is Mahaprabhu’s movement where we come together with devotees who are the Gopis in the dark night of which is Kali Yuga and we have crying Maharaj used to say it’s cried without crying you won’t get Krishna it’s the crying school at Bhuvaneshwar so the three things in Kirtan is crying feeling a connection with Krishna throat calling out the names it’s not mental meditation it’s not silent meditation it’s articulating the names of Krishna and it’s with all our heart as Krishna says Aham Sarvasya Prabhava Matta Sarvam Pravartate Iti Matva Bhajan Thema Buddha Bhava Samanvita with Bhava they do Bhajan Preeti Purvakam so Mahaprabhu taught this so we see a parallel of Mahaprabhu’s Namsankirtan with the Gopi Gita and then it’s wonderful that Krishna comes after that so we are in that situation actually Madhavananda Prabhu was talking about the mode of separation we are separated from Krishna Krishna Bhoga you’re separated from Krishna and the Gopis are in the forest and we are in the forest of material enjoyment in the night darkness of Avidya with like-minded devotees crying singing and feeling on the banks of Yamuna which is Yamuna represents Bhakti and then we are calling out to Krishna and then gives a hope that Krishna will come back so this is beautiful if you see the 10th canto rendition that Prabhupada has done in Krishna book there Prabhupada says actually that Prabhupada translates the Gopi Gita and in that word the end he says in this way the Gopis chanted Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Prabhupada gives a full mantra over there so this is a beautiful explanation of in one sense the essential elements of doing Kirtan and the essential elements of the Gopi Gita are the same and ultimately this is Krishna appears after the Gopi Gita similarly we can also pray that Krishna will appear through our calling out to him through chanting as well as through the Gopi Gita when we discuss it thank you yes yeah I was just thinking Amarendra Prabhu’s wonderful analogy about the darkness in in Tamagun and Kali Yuga and that and how there’s two Gopi Gita we could say in the Bhagavad Gita chapter 31 of the 10th of the day and in that chapter there’s 26 verses 24 which is spoken by the Gopis one which begins with Sukadeva Swami and Sukadeva Swami finishes it at the end and Jiva Goswami I believe it is comments that there’s 24 verses and these 24 verses represent the 24 hours of the day 12 hours of the night and 12 hours of the day and this is the Gopis they’re completely absorbed and these two things are there both union and separation together and this has to be there’s my Guru Maharaj would comment this there’s a prema dwara or the river of love which has two embankments the embankment of Sambhog Tata and the embankment of Vipalamba both things have to be there otherwise the river can’t continue 24 verses are you referring to in this context that’s from chapter 35 the 10th canto there’s 26 verses in that chapter but 24 is spoken by the Gopis and that’s also how does the BBT translate the Gopis sing of Krishna as he wanders in the forest it’s a second kind of Gopi gate okay there is one before also in the 19th also is there where the Gopis are captivated by Krishna’s flute in the forest as Krishna is playing the flute in the forest okay that’s amazing that’s true so so I think we discussed should we go go into the Gopi Gita now or any more contextualisation I was I was reminded of Srila Rupa Goswami’s genius in the Ujjwala Neelamani where he says that the nature of love divine ecstatic love it’s like a snake he says I hear about that era premna he says the nature of Krishna Prem is like a snake it’s it moves crooked but it’s actually moving ahead every time the snake moves left and the right and takes it left and takes a right it’s actually not taking left or right it’s moving ahead so it’s almost like saying whether the Gopis are with Krishna or separated from Krishna it’s like taking right or taking left of the snake of Prem but one thing is for sure whether it’s union or separation the snake of divine ecstatic love is only going deeper with meeting with Krishna and separation from Krishna we could also give an example of let’s say cutting a log of wood with an axe let’s say you put the axe into the the log of wood and then you go ahead and then you go behind and you take it ahead and then take it behind and take it ahead and take it behind so irrespective of whether the axe moves ahead or whether the axe moves behind one thing is for sure the log of wood is getting cut deeper so whether it’s meeting Krishna or the log of wood of Krishna is getting cut deeper so so in this way I think there are aspects of meeting Krishna but the Gopi Gita is like the peak on the mountain of separation and where at the end Krishna meets again and then there is separation in chapter 35 and then meets again and then chapters 47 and 39 separation again Krishna’s heart even in Mathura is with the Gopis and then there’s again 47 so the Shrimad Bhagavatam is like is an ocean but it also goes through the waves of emotions of meeting and separation so it’s it’s like the snake the the snake turns left and right and left and right with union and separation only for the ecstatic love to go deeper and and further than before beautiful you know there’s a one of my favourite metaphors for this is love and separation is like separation does to love what wind does to fire if it is a big forest fire one of the worst nightmares for the forest fighters is if there is a wind at that time it just spreads but however if the fire is tiny like a candle and when it comes it will get extinguished so when our love is strong and the Gopis love is the strongest among all loves for Krishna and our love is the strongest like a big forest fire and in separation causes that forest fire to increase more and more in fact that’s what Krishna says later on when he reappears and the Gopis ask how could you have left us the Gopis at that time are afraid because if they question Krishna strongly Krishna may go away again so they don’t want him to go away but still they cannot contain the emotion of their heart they ask him indirectly what is the nature of love and lovers who reciprocate or lovers who don’t reciprocate so then he says actually I did this out of my love for you so he causes their love to blaze forward so for us at ours level in one sense we need association of those who have love for Krishna our flame of Krishna Bhakti is like a candle it will get extinguished in separation from devotees but for the Gopis they are so exalted that their flame blazes forth more and more I find a lot of times devotees have a hard even devotees have a hard time understanding separation and we’ll hear in the Gopi Gita how the Gopis are accusing Krishna that you’re trying to kill us what a horrific thing a devotee saying God is trying to kill and he’s trying to kill not just any devotees but he’s trying to kill the Gopis of Vrindavan how do we understand that and we speak about separation it seems like he’s so callous and as you just touched on a little bit Chaitanya Charan Prabhu it’s actually the mercy of the Lord there’s a couple beautiful verses that are spoken in the by Narada Muni in the Brihad Bhagavad Gita he says he says he says yeah it’s true that this is the nature that in the beginning this love when there’s some separation there’s some terrible pain and that terrible pain he says it’s just this vicheda the separation it’s like a like a terrible burning fire and that pain that forest fire of separation causes the most intense dukkha the most intense type of happiness but then he goes on to explain in the next verse he says he says but there’s suffering that they’re going through that’s actually the greatest happiness the separation they’re going through causes more happiness than the enjoyment when they’re actually meeting it’s greater than the sambhog suk the happiness of meeting this happiness of separation and he says but this is such an inconceivable thing that only those persons sadrasikai kavedyaha only persons who are rasikjanas only they can understand this so this is this is Gaudiya Vaishnavism if we don’t understand something about separation then we can’t hope to get that topmost thing and we may be stuck with the bread of the cake the sponge of the cake which is very nice it’s also very important but we’ll miss that on the icing and so many people may come and they say yes this is nice Bhagavad Gita is very nice and preaching and we’re not our body and four regulated principles and we should be vegetarian but Prabhupada as you know when the devotees approached him in London and said that the Royal Vegetarian Society wants you to come and speak and Prabhupada said do they want to hear about Krishna and they said Prabhupada I think they want to hear about vegetarianism and Prabhupada said we don’t care about vegetarianism Prabhupada sometimes said we are not vegetarian that’s not our purpose we’re Krishnari and we take the remnants of Krishna the gopis are taking the remnants of Krishna that’s our purpose as Gaudiya Vaishnavas and it’s nice we never want to discourage vegetarianism we never want to discourage dharma but that’s a sub portion that’s Upadharma for us it’s something which is coming the real dharma which is Panchamapurushartha which is far beyond the Kaitava Chatustoya the four types of what we consider to be cheating dharma dharma, artha, kama and moksha this Panchamapurushartha is Krishna Prema and to understand that we have to read this Gopikita so we should we should read it in a context we shouldn’t go crazy we shouldn’t start trying to imitate something or imagine something but we should just read it and just take the medicine and see how the medicine affects our consciousness vikrititam vajjavadubiritam javishnam if I do this thing then then bhaktim param bhagavate pratilabhya kamam that topmost bhakti will come not just any bhakti but bhaktim param the topmost bhakti will come and hrigogam mahasaparinota chariyanadira that hrig rogue that disease of the heart will go away that means you know there are two levels of misconceptions that we need to address that one is that the love between the gopis and Krishna is not mundane and the second is that this love and separation is actually a form of ecstasy it’s not just agony it’s not just misery so the first level of course is what we have been discussing and the second level we brought in maybe one quick metaphor which I sometimes use to convey this is that we can move forward that we have the bhagavitas 15.1 urdhvamula madhahashakam this is like a upside down tree so the word material existence is like upside down tree so the the male female attraction in the world you can say is like the reflected mango and love between Krishna and the gopis that is like the original mango so now as long as we are looking at the reflected mango till that point if we even if we look at the original mango we will think it is like the reflected mango and so we may equate Radha Krishna’s past times with the past times with the male female interaction in the world but actually only once we understand hey this is the reflection that is the reality then the that very conviction that this is the reality will make us detach from the reflection that’s why it is anushrunayad varunayedia that we have to shraddhan with anushrunayad if we hear from faithfully and from proper authorities then they will not just tell the story but they will give the philosophical context by which we know these are not they look similar but there is a categorical difference between the two this is reality this is reflection and once we understand that this is the real mango then why would we want to keep chasing the reflection so that’s how hearing about this particular past time will although it seems to be like a male female interaction but it will decrease our attraction to that because we will realise this is this is real love this is the pure love which the soul is longing for eternally so that means we do some philosophical systematic philosophical understanding to categorise the difference that the male female attraction in the world are like the reflected mango the interaction with Krishna and Gopis are like the real mango and once that is understood then the more we hear about Radha and Krishna the more we get a taste for the real mango then naturally the taste for the reflected mango will go away so that’s one metaphor for clarifying that and that directly relates with this words also otherwise that question comes up how do you how is hearing about Krishna going to specifically take away karma so you can say it’s going to purification and purification happens at a subtler level but in terms of intellectual conceptualisation I found this metaphor quite helpful and the second point about love and separation I think Chaitanya also says use the example of hot sugar cane juice so it’s it’s hot so it’s not exactly pleasant but it’s so tasty that you can’t stop drinking it so sometimes you need to phrase it in another way that you can say it is love for Krishna is like nectar when Krishna is with the union with Krishna it’s like sweet nectar and when separation from Krishna it seems like bitter nectar the bitter nectar can itself seem like oxymoron how can nectar be bitter but at that time it can seem bitter but still it’s nectar it’s nourishing the heart like earlier you said about the snake the snake will be moving this way or this way it is moving towards the destination so similarly nectar nourishes the soul nectar energises the soul so whether it is love for Krishna or it is union with Krishna or separation from Krishna both of them they may in the moment not taste that sweet union may taste sweet and separation may not taste sweet but in one sense both of them are nourishing the soul and that makes I think Krishna book that separation from Krishna makes us cherish Krishna more when we actually unite with him in that sense the love becomes intensified and the experience of love and union becomes much deeper much more deeper and sweeter yes actually in the same section that Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu quoted from Srila Sanatana Goswami gives an example just to bolster the point that we’re all discussing he gives the example of touching a block of ice he says that when you touch a block of ice which is very cold it’s freezing there’s many times the person can get burnt Srila Sanatana Goswami says by touching the block of ice which is very cold the person can sometimes get some blisters on the hand and can feel warmth but is there any warmth there no it’s actually ice cold so he says so he gives that example to say just like the block of ice is not hot but it may seem to be hot at that freezing point but it’s actually cold so similarly separation may seem to be painful but it’s like a block of ice it’s actually cold but touching that may seem to have externally it may seem that it’s going to bring in some blisters or the warmth right or a heat burn but there’s actually no burn so separation even Kaviraj Goswami Krishnadas Kaviraj Goswami he says that externally it seems to be like poison it’s almost like a jawala it’s like a volcanic eruption of poison but inside it’s an it’s a volcanic eruption of happiness and Krishna Prema it’s it’s astonishing that externally it seems to be painful but internally it’s an explosion of happiness and then Kaviraj Goswami says only someone who’s tasting it knows it because it’s Visha Amrita Milan so like our Chaitanya Charan Prabhu was explaining it seems to be paradoxical of bitter nectar actually Kaviraj Goswami uses that word he says Visha Amrita Milan it’s the meeting of poison and nectar externally it seems to be that the person is crying and weeping in pain in separation from Krishna it seems to be like Visha like poison but inside he’s feeling so much joy he’s feeling so much happiness it’s like externally he may seem to get the blisters on touching the the ice-cold block but actually it’s cold it’s very it’s very pleasing and blissful so so if this is this is something that’s to be noted and also Srila Rupa Goswami he says Navina Vipralambhena Sambhogapushtimashnute that union cannot be nourished without separation Navina Vipralambhena Vipralambhena Vina Sambhogam Pushtim no it cannot you cannot have Pushti Pushti Karan or Vardhi Karan they they support or let’s say the increase in joy just by meeting there must be some separation and then this there must be meeting there’s an example that comes to my mind but I will probably keep it for sometime later I don’t want to ramble longer so if Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu or Chaitanacharan Prabhu want to add and continue I’m completely fine I have a thought and I know that that Amarendra Prabhu has some beautiful comments about this too another point about separation is that the very word separation the very word Vipralamba indicates external separation but internal union and Jiva Goswami describes this in Prakriti Sandarbha he says Vipralambo Viprakarsena Lambaha Praptir Yasya Satata that it means Lamba to attain something that is in a distance Vipra and you’re speaking about poison this poison this union to this poisonous separation this is the most fundamental principle of Gaudiya Vaishnavism what’s the most fundamental principle book in our line is Bhagavad Gita how does that book begin it begins with the first chapter and what is that first chapter is Bishad Yoga it’s the yoga or the union of this Bishad the lamentation and Bishad as you know has another meaning it’s a compound word Bish and Ad that when I accept the Ad the Bish the poison then there’s some and I’m lamenting except that this position that I have this very fallen position and I cry in separation from the Lord the first chapter of Bhagavad Gita Arjun is speaking about suicide I once gave a talk we called it suicide in the Bhagavad Gita it became very controversial some devotees got very upset about it and I comment I show Baladeva and says look what Arjun says at the end he just puts down his weapons and says okay just let him kill me in America we call that suicide by cop sometimes someone they go to I actually have a friend who went to a police station he became very depressed he was a drug user and things he went to a police station and he put his hand in his pocket and he started approaching the police in a very menacing kind of way and they said take your hand out of your pocket and he wouldn’t do it and they pulled their guns out and he said take your hand out of your pocket and he wouldn’t do it and the police shot and killed him that’s how he died and they call it death by cop so similarly Arjun was going to do death by cop in the same kind of way I’m going to put down my weapons better they just kill me that’s the desire for suicide and that first chapter we’ll hear about this in the Gopis also that this desire for suicide this is a fundamental part of our line or as my grandma would put it sometimes she said that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s bhajan is a desire for death so that’s that’s Bishad yoga there’s yoga union through an inconceivable kind of way through this suicide there’s some thoughts in this reflecting that I’m going to produce Fascinating suicided the Bhagavad Gita so Bishad right so so the Gopis actually say that Krishna they will come to that that you’re killing us you know that separation from you is killing us they will speak that how can you kill us it’s beautiful theme so should we go to at least one verse before we finish today we have about 30 25 30 minutes can I add a point before I’m thinking how we generally try to relate everything transcendental with our experiences in this world like for example a mother when she listens to Krishna’s baby pastime she immediately remembers her child eating dirt or probably scratching the calcium on the wall something like that maybe stealing speaking lies or something so like Chaitanya was mentioning looking at the fruit and remembering the reflection right but I feel there’s a very big difference between the feeling of separation in this world and the feeling of separation from Krishna because when we feel separation from someone in this world it’s painful because the person is far away and he can’t reciprocate he’s gone let’s say let’s say I have a death in my family and I I lose someone whom I really love now I’m crying and weeping in separation from that person but that person is gone that person doesn’t know and that person will never come to know and he will never he or she will never come to me and and and help me but with Krishna it’s interesting when we feel separation from him he’s sitting right here so when there is separation from Krishna yeah yeah the more we feel that ecstatic love of separation from him he’s sitting right here from whom we are feeling separation from he can reciprocate from within and give us joy because Krishna is the source of all pleasure in the Chandogya Upanishad that’s described to the right to the left to the top and bottom of Krishna there’s only Ananda and Ananda Maya Abhyasaat means Abhyasaat means repetition so how is Krishna Ananda Swaroop just by Abhyasaat which the scriptures have repeated it so many times so just like that that’s how they say it Krishna is Ananda Swaroop well what’s the proof well so many times it’s being repeated Abhyasaat just by repetition so he who’s the complete epitome or let’s say the source of all joy is sitting in the heart and when we feel separation he can reciprocate from within but in the in the context of this world when we feel separation that person can’t reciprocate from inside so it’s it’s it’s like stuck in a forest fire but it’s interesting separation from Krishna is like a forest fire but not to forget that Krishna in the heart is a rain cloud and it’s only the rain cloud that can which can put off the forest fire beautiful there are two things here it’s a I think this is a theme which will come again there’s one danger if especially in the Abrahamic traditions they have the idea that God is so different from us that we can’t even know about him that to even depict him any kind of imagery is a sacrilege which is punishable which is forbidden by as one of the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament so one is the God so much the other that he becomes inaccessible and the other is to make God so much familiar one of us that he loses his transcendence and then we have what we call a Sahajiyism so in one sense we could say that the capacity to love the potential to love and say if there is selflessness in this world. And that is also, in one sense, laudable. So the quality of emotion, if somebody has a tendency to love and serve, as contrasted with somebody who is very self-centred, then that is laudable.
And a person who is naturally in sattva guna trying to do some service to someone else, sometimes for higher cause, if they come to bhakti, their love is naturally directed outward to something bigger than themselves. And then directing toward the biggest reality is relatively easier for them. So we could say, in terms of the development, so there is, when we will be discussing about Krishna and Gopi’s love for each other, there is a similarity, it’s not entirely dissimilar, because the loving potential is the same within the soul, whether it is directed toward a mundane or with somebody in this world, or whether it is directed toward Krishna.
So the development of the loving potential, there are principles which are similar. But in terms of the capacity of the object to reciprocate, there is radical dissimilarity. So, so that’s, so it’s like, if it’s completely, there is no, not complete similarity, but not complete dissimilarity also.
That’s again, we can say achintya bheda bhed. So if we don’t emphasise the bhed enough, and we start taking Krishna and Radha Krishna’s past, Gopi Krishna’s past time to be entirely mundane. But if we don’t emphasise the abhed, then nothing about that Leela can be comprehended.
Because the essential dynamics of love are similar. And Prabhupada talks about saying, when he talks about how Krishna teases Rukmini. So Prabhupada, in that sense, in some ways he compares it.
If a man comes back tired from his work, then he wants to have some fun. He wants to have some teasing words, some loving exchanges. So, and that may seem mundane.
But rather than seeing that that seeming mundane, we can say that this is actually, it’s not as, as below, so above, it’s more like as above, so below. That is the pure love. And to some extent, in the world, it is reflected with varying degrees of misdirection to what it is object, what is directed towards.
Madhav, do you want to comment something? I’m just really happy to take part in this discussion. The Bhagavatam 11.3.30, it says, puraspara na kathanam pavanam bhagavad yusam ito ratham itas tushtya namivinirita magda atmana. When we speak about this Gopi Gita, there should be some puraspara, there should be some back and forth.
It’s not just a lecture in the university or something. But, but hearing Amarendra Prabhu’s wonderful quoting of verses and Sanskrit and understanding and your deep understanding and thoughts of things, it really churns so many things up and becomes relevant. It’s such a beautiful, I appreciate in general, you, Chaitanya Charanpur, who are doing these kind of programmes, where you’re encouraging this churning to hear from different devotees and things.
Thank you for letting me be part of this. Yes. So is that an indication that we should conclude or should we do one more? Chaiti te dikam.
Chaiti te dikam. Yes, definitely, we’ll go there. Jamana Braja.
So Jamana Braja, we should take birth in Braj, at least for the first verse. What do you think Amarendra? Yeah, I was, I was thinking Prabhuji, maybe we can backtrack a little in the sense that when the arrow is shot, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s important for the arrow to go ahead. But then it’s also important to pull it behind so that it gets the momentum to the force to go ahead.
So I was thinking if I could screen share and share something in context of what we are discussing. We were discussing about how transcendental this whole section is about. But at the same time, I want to share a poetic and intellectual, analytical, devotional, humorous aspect of this pastime.
So this is Canto 10, chapter 29, text 19. And this is Sri Bhagavan who watches. So Krishna who’s speaking in the Bhagavad Gita is the same Krishna who’s speaking here.
And he’s speaking to the Gopis just before the Gopi Geet is sung. So we appreciate the Gopis speaking and singing. But I want to just backtrack to this where Krishna is speaking.
And then we can really, I think, smile together as to how wonderfully Krishna can say something and at the same time not say that. So he says here that it’s Anushtuk Chanda. So he says, So Krishna is speaking to the Gopis.
And there are Gopis of all types. As Srila Rupa Goswami has explained, there are Gopis who are Swapaksha of the camp of Srimati Radharani. And then there are those who are Suhritpaksha.
They’re not Radharani’s camp, but they’re friendly to Radharani. And then there are those who are Tattastapaksha. They are neither Radharani’s camp nor Chandravali’s camp, but they are neutral.
And then we have the Vipaksha, the opposite camp, Chandravali’s camp. So four camps. Talks about the Swapaksha, Radharani’s camp, Suhritpaksha, friendly to Radhika’s camp.
The Tattastapaksha, they are neutral. And then the Vipaksha, the opposite camp, Chandravali’s camp, and all of them are there. So Krishna has to say something at the same time, not say that.
So it’s very beautiful how Bhagavan speaks. He says Rajani, which means night. Rajani Esha, this Esha means this.
So the feminine usage is used here because Rajani is feminine. So Rajani Esha, this night, O Gopis, Ghora Rupa. It is really horrifying and fearsome, right? Why? Ghora Sattva Nishevita.
It’s filled with wild animals. Ghora, you know, means wild, fearsome. So Rajani Esha, this night is certainly fearsome because fearsome and intense and horrifying animals are around at night.
Therefore, O Gopis, Pratiyata, please go back. Where? Vrajam. Go back to Vraja.
Don’t be in the forest. Go back to the village. And Na Iha Steyam, don’t stay here.
Na Iha, Iha means here and Na means no. Steyam means to stay as in English. Steyam is like stayam.
Don’t stayam. Don’t stay here. Who? Stribhi.
O Gopis. And Sumadhyama. You’re so beautiful, right? Sumadhyama is as translated slender-waisted.
So this is a general meaning where Krishna is saying, O Gopis, the night is very fearsome, filled with wild animals. Go back to the village and don’t stay here. But that’s to Chandravali’s camp, not to Srimati Radharani’s camp.
To Radharani, he’s saying the exact opposite. Because in Sanskrit, now if you see the Sanskrit here, Rajani Esha Aghora Rupa. You can break this Ghora Rupa by taking the A from here, the previous A and it is Aghora.
So Rajani Esha Aghora Rupa. The night to night is not that fearsome. Why? Because the moon is up there and it’s lit up.
It’s a full moon night. So it’s not that fearsome. So the A from Esha, Esha ends with the A and that goes with Ghora.
So it negates the meaning. So Rajani Esha, night to night, Aghora Rupa is certainly not fearsome. Why? Now the A from Rupa goes with the Ghora here.
Because tonight, all the friendly animals are out. Like the peacocks and the deer, the wild animals aren’t there. Tonight is, it’s a very nice night.
And therefore, now look what Krishna is saying. Now he’s saying, Pratiyata Vrajam Na. Pratiyata Vrajam Na.
Don’t go back to Vraja. And instead, Ihasteyam, stay here. Stay here, Stri Vihi, O Gopis.
But then he’s mentioning who should stay there. So Madhyama. Now Madhyama could mean the middle part of the body or it could mean the middle part of the Bhav.
On one side, you have those who are the Mrudusnehika, those who are very soft and tender. And on the other side, you have the Pragalbanayika, those who are very intense. You have the Mugdanaika on one end who are very sober and humble.
On the other hand, you have those who are Pragalbanayika like Lalita Sakhi, intense. Like they will throw, not frying pans, but like a flower garland or something. So on one hand, you have the Mugdanaika.
And on the other hand, you have the Pragalbanayika, again from Chaitanya Charitambul. But in the middle, we have the Madhyanaika, which is Radharani’s camp. And in that, Su is Radharani, the best.
So everyone go home. Srimati Radharani, you stay here. Because you are Madhyama.
You are not Mugdanaika. You’re not Pragalbanayika. You’re Madhyanaika.
And in that Sushtu, you are the best. So Rajani Esha Aghora Rupa. Tonight is the most sweet night because Aghora Sattva Niveshita, all the friendly animals are out.
Pratiyata Vrajamna. Therefore, don’t go back to the village. Ihasteyam.
Please stay here. Stribhi, O Gopis, and especially Sumadhima, Srimati Radhika, Srimati Radharani. So it’s so beautiful that when we talk about Krishna being transcendental and Krishna being great, yes, but at the same time, look how he’s mixing poetry, rasa, emotions, all of that in the middle of the night, in the middle of the forest, saying the same thing, but being caught differently by different camps.
So I think before, I was just thinking before we get into the Gopi Gita, which is also having double meanings, you know, transcendental double meaning it has from both camps. But that’s from the Gopi side. But this is from Bhagavan Sri Krishna’s side.
I’m sorry, I, you know, I was mumbling and rumbling and rambling too much, but please forgive me. It’s brilliant. So you wanted to say something, bro? I’m just so happy to hear.
Thank you very much. It was a beautiful explanation. Yeah.
So basically, if we consider, I mean, since you brought this verse, it’s good that we got the context. The Gopi Gita, how does it happen is that Krishna plays the flute, the Gopis leave everything and they come to Krishna, they come to be with Krishna. And then Krishna dallies with them, you know, Krishna, he, in one sense, has a little fun with them.
He says, okay, use three reasons, basically. It is night and it’s dangerous for you all to be out here. And then he says that, okay, you know, it is improper for women to be alone at night.
And third, he also misdirects, he says, okay, maybe you are curious because you wanted to see the beauty of Vrindavan’s forest. So now you saw it, you go back. So the real reason he keeps diverting.
So in one sense, if you see here, the Gopis love is also seen, the Yagik Brahmin path is in chapter 23. They also leave everything and come to Krishna. And Krishna tells them to go back and they go back.
Whereas Krishna tells the Gopis to go back, but they don’t go back. They don’t directly oppose, but they start moving their toes along the ground, making marks on the ground, indicating their reluctance. And then Krishna sees their intense desire and they start dancing together.
And then suddenly, now we can go into that later about the pride, how it happens in the Gopis, but they become proud and Krishna disappears from them, taking only one Gopi. And then Krishna disappears even from that Gopi. And all the Gopis meet with each other because they are searching for Krishna.
And then while searching, searching, they keep searching. They can’t find Krishna at all. They go deep into the forest.
I think Anand Navanchak says that they go so deep in that it’s so dark they can’t even see their hand in front of them. Then they think we can’t find Krishna over here. So then they all come back.
They come back to the banks of the Yamuna and there they start calling out to Krishna. So it’s not by searching we will find Krishna, but it’s more by calling out. It is not by our efforts, but it is by his mercy he will come.
So we will call out to him. And at that stage when they’re completely broken on the verge of death, as we will talk about in that, that they are calling out and they are in one sense, every verse is actually, it is different frames of analysis, but every verse we could say it concludes with Krishna, please come back. So each verse is from a different framework.
Please come back. Please come back. Anything more you want to add to the context of the specific Gopi Gita before we go in? Okay, so let’s look at the first verse.
So Madanpur, you would like to explain? I would like to hear Amarandir Prabhu. That’s my voice. I really love how he recites verses.
Thank you. Please go ahead. Would you would you instruct me to sing it, Prabhuji? Yeah, please.
Please, according to your whatever tune you like the most. I know there’s a number of different tunes. Okay, Prabhuji.
Now I would like to hear from you, Sri Padmanabhananda Prabhuji. Well, the first thought that comes to me in this verse, that the Gopis, they’re saying, my dear Krishna, we’re approaching you, the first thing we’re saying about you, you’re very glorious. Why? Because adhikam, your janmana, your birth is such a glorious birth, because you’ve taken birth here in Braj.
And indirectly, that indicates Radharani. Because Jiva Goswami explains in Mukta Charita that Radha is really the queen of Braj. And our Charitas said that the only reason why Krishna stays in Braj is because of Radharani.
So the Gopis, I consider this in this very first thing, they’re saying, that my dear Krishna, we appreciate you. You’re all glorious, because of your connection with Srimati Radharani. And as Amarendra Prabhu was commenting, there’s so many different double meanings, and sometimes more than that, in the way the Gopis, they speak.
And that gives great pleasure to Krishna. So I just wanted to comment that first line. So they’re saying that this land is fortunate, because Radharani is here.
And Indira is Radharani. Is that what they’re saying? Braj is fortunate. Braj is so glorious, because it’s a place of Radha.
It’s Radharani’s forest. And therefore, Krishna, you’re glorious, because you’ve been able to take birth here. In this place, you’re so fortunate, you have some connection with Radharani.
Oh, amazing. Okay. That’s beautiful.
So, the way I thought of this verse is, Amarendra Prabhu, you want to first go ahead, you can explain, then we’ll go ahead. Om, I would like to hear from you, Prabhuji. Please go ahead.
So I have tried to, you know, read all the verses to conclude in that call, that please come back, Krishna. So generally, when we are conveying our emotions, our emotions are quite subjective. So what I am feeling when I try to put it in words, the other person may not be feeling at all like that.
So if I give the context, you know, why am I feeling like this? I’m angry. You know, what is there to get angry about? But I tell the situation, how I am seeing the situation, from what frame I am perceiving this. Then my anger, okay, that’s okay, that’s how you saw this thing.
That’s why you’re getting angry. So the Gopis here are creating a frame. They’re saying that Krishna, you are the person who made this land fortunate.
That and you made this land of Raja so fortunate, that it was all fortunate, but you made it all the more fortunate. Because so fortunate, in fact, that in the goddess of fortune, Lakshmidevi wants to come and reside over here. So we have a building near Bilbao, where Lakshmidevi performs austerities.
And she wants to not only stay here, but permanently stay here. She doesn’t stay like that. So this land is so fortunate.
And if you are the person who made this land so fortunate, then why are you making us so unfortunate? Why are you making us so unfortunate that you have gone away from us? And then in one sense, so that’s second part of the verses. In one sense, they are saying, we don’t deserve to be unfortunate like this. Because we love you.
We are seeking you. We are looking for you. Our life is devoted to you.
So in one sense, they’re saying that if you see these characteristics, in some ways, they’re similar to we are thinking about you, our lives are devoted to you. And we see the gopis have been discussing about Krishna also with each other. So basically, we are devoted to you.
So you have made this land fortunate. How can you make us unfortunate by abandoning us like this? So please, please, Krishna, come back. So that’s my thought.
Madhavendra, you wanted to say something? Yeah, I just wanted to add a little thing. That this verse reminds me of the Jagannath Ashtakam, where we’ve been meditating a lot in Jagannath Ashtakam. And the first verse of Jagannath Ashtakam describes kadachit kalinditatta.
That sometimes kalinditatta on the bank of the Yamuna. Actually, the first three verses of Jagannath Ashtakam speak about the place. And that there’s some significance to that.
Just like in the Gita, it also begins, the very first verse describes dharmaketri karucheta, that at this place, there’s some foundational principle there. So the gopis, the first thing they’re saying, they’re speaking about bridge. And so we can understand that this whole topic is hinged upon this place, this bridge.
This is Jagannath Ashtakam begins, the first two verses speaking about bridge. And then the third verse speaking about on the bank of the ocean. And how so kadachit, sometimes it’s like bridge, sometimes this place is like on the bank of the ocean.
It’s not bridge, but it is bridge. That’s Jagannath Ashtakam. The gopis are starting in a similar way, jayate te, become janmana bhraja.
That the first thing is, Krishna, that you’re born here in bridge. And because of that, you’re very, very glorious. Amazing.
Yes. Thank you, Mahendra, that’s beautiful correlation. Yes, Mahendra, would you like to speak something? Actually, Srila Sanatana Goswami in his Brihad Vaishnava Toshani, he has said that Krishna eka gamyo vaga artho yasyaam lekhi tum isyate nyatva aparadham devyahastam bhaktim tanvantu menijam.
Srila Sanatana Goswami has said that only Krishna eka gamyo vaga arthah, only Krishna understands the meanings of the Gopi Gita. He says Krishna eka gamyo vaga arthah. The vaga arthah, the words coming from the lips of the gopis, gamyo, only Krishna understands.
But however, Sanatana Goswami is saying, I am attempting to write, although I don’t know. So what is happening? Aparadham. He’s saying nyatva aparadham devyahastam bhaktim tanvantu menijam.
I’m committing the offence of trying to write something that I don’t understand. However, all gopis, I understand that you are very merciful. So just for the fact that I’m attempting, why don’t you forgive me and instead give me your own devotion to Krishna? And Srila Jiva Goswami has also commented in this section.
He says that when the babies talk, they don’t mean anything. But it gives supreme joy to the parents. So Srila Jiva Goswami says my commentary to the Gopi Gita are like baby talk.
It doesn’t make any sense because I don’t understand anything. But I’m pretty sure it’s going to give a lot of joy to the gopis. So if that’s the take of personalities like Srila Sanatana Goswami and Srila Jiva Goswami.
So I feel utterly unqualified to even comment. But I would like to say a few things. Can we screen share, Prabhuji? Can you keep the screen share on? Then we can see how Krishna is poetic.
But the gopis are no less. It’s interesting that different verses in the Bhagavatam are composed in different metres, in different chandas. There are some which are like really long.
The Shardula Vikridita Chanda like Cheto Darpanamara Janam Bhava Maha. Or you could have something like Anushtuk Chanda like the verses of Bhagavad Gita. Or you could have an Indra Vajra Chanda which goes.
Something like that. Or you could have the Vasanta Tilaka Chanda like the Brahma Samhita. So now the question is what Chanda is the Gopi Gita bound in? It’s very interesting that it’s bound in a Chanda called Indira Chanda.
So the Gopis as they start the Gopi Gita, although they are in the pangs of their separation, when there is devotion, with every explosion of devotional sentiments, there is transcendental knowledge hidden there. So the Gopis are in the first verse through the word Indira, hiding the name of the Chanda in which they are going to sing the whole Gopi Gita, Indira Chanda. And at the same time, it’s almost like telling Krishna, if you can be poetically an erudite orator, we are no less.
Look at our poetry. Well, we start off with the first syllable. Then we pause.
Then after the pause, what’s the first syllable? So the first syllable before the pause and the first syllable after the pause is the same. And in the second line, they start with and together. Pause.
It’s the same syllable again. And then in the third line, is the first syllable. Pause.
It’s again the D. And in the last line, pause. So every first and seventh syllable in the Indira Chanda, they have kept it same systematically, although they are crying. Look at the genius in their crying, behind their crying.
And then when we think that this is all that the Gopis have, well, it’s poetic, but yeah, is that all? Then the Gopis say, no, we still have some more nectar left. Then they say that we have also aligned. We also have aligned the second syllable of each line as the same.
So it’s yeah. Third line. Again, it’s a Y. Fourth line.
And all of this has been given. By a commentator called as Hemadri, who has commented to Vopadev. Vopadev has been a commentator on the Bhagavatam.
And there’s someone, there’s a commentator called Hemadri, who has commented on the commentary of Vopadev. And he seems to be the first person picking out these jewels. And then, of course, Shrila Vishwanath Chakravarti and Jeeva Goswami, others, they bring this tradition down of the genius behind the Gopi Gita.
So behind the emotions, there’s also so much analytical, intellectual, poetic juice. Just keeping, even if you keep the devotion aside and study this from a poetic perspective, it’s amazing. For a poet to not practise beforehand and come and compose on the spot and also pronounce the name of the Chanda in which you’re going to sing and keep the first and the seventh syllable the same throughout and keep the second syllable same in every line.
Now that’s some level of poetic genius. So I wanted to posit that. Beautiful.
You know, it’s, there’s a, it’s this, I knew about the first and seventh, but second is striking. It’s like, it’s almost there, but I never saw it. Beautiful.
So this Gopya Uchu, it seems that, here they use the word plural. So I think Jeeva Goswami, Gopal Champu mentions that actually each verse of the Gopi Gita is offered by one, one Gopi. And when they are offering it, that Gopi is expressing her own heart while at the same time representing the group.
So it’s both individual and collective. That’s why it’s a plural. So it’s one Gopi making each verse and there is a continuity in the verses.
By the same time, there’s a distinctive thought in each verse. So it’s in, again, no Gopi is actually clearly mentioned explicitly in the Ras Leela. Radharani is hinted at.
So it, that’s, it seems it’s more of a, the whole mood is of the reciprocation of love. So the Gopis are on one side and Krishna is one side. Of course, each Gopi has an individual emotion.
But the mood here is of that reciprocation of love between the Gopis and Krishna. So this also, we could say, indicates like a unity in diversity. All the Gopis are united in beseeching Krishna.
But at the same time, each Gopi has an individual relationship with Krishna and each Gopi is calling out to Krishna individually. So that’s Gopya Uchyuhu. Madhavendra, you want to add? I was just appreciating that’s a brilliant comment.
It’s just like I’ve heard an example given of grass. If you look at grass, it’s a whole. You see someone’s lawn and it looks very beautiful all together.
But each, you look closer, each blade of grass is individual. And this is our bhajan, where we’re coming together and we’re doing kirtan. And it’s a whole group.
Did you see those Hare Krishna people chanting and dancing on the street today? It’s a group. But at the same time, we have to be individuals. And it’s such an important lesson that we learn.
I think it’s, just speaking kind of a social context, it’s a problem that a lot of devotees have and we’ve joined. We’re not strong enough as individuals. And we just want to have our identity with the society, with the whole kirtan.
And that’s okay, but it actually makes things weaker. Sometimes even it gets so bad where people, they feel threatened if someone’s an individual. But when we become individuals, as you’re pointing out, unity and diversity, the whole becomes stronger by strong individuals.
And so this is a very powerful lesson we’re getting from the Gopi Geet. Yeah, grass is a very beautiful example. So like people, those Hare Krishnas.
In fact, I was reading a book on the design, it is a design argument on the existence of God. And there that person, he says that every flake of snow, every blade of grass, and every Hare Krishna devotee is an individual. So their perception is you all look alike, but they’re individuals.
So he’s giving that example there. But yeah, it’s beautiful. One point I just wanted to add.
Amaranthapuram or Madanpuram, do you want to add anything? Yeah, I was reflecting on this discussion and the situation of the Gopis in the first verse. There’s actually a very nice saying in Sanskrit. It means that, let’s say there are groups of birds sitting on the shore of an ocean.
Groups of birds sitting on the shore of an ocean for a long, long time. And they’re dying out of thirst. They can’t drink the ocean water because it’s salty.
And they end up dying out of thirst. It’s certainly shame on the ocean. That birds are sitting on your shore and you can’t even save them from thirst.
So it’s almost like that. That Krishna is an ocean of mercy. He’s an ocean of joy.
And here are Gopis who are like birds sitting on the shore of the ocean of joy and dying out of thirst of separation. So therefore, the Gopis are saying here that we want you to come back, come out. Why? Because we want to save your reputation.
Otherwise, people will say the Gopis are like birds on the ocean shore of the ocean called Krishna whose joy personified. And here are Gopis dying in separation. So Krishna, just to save your reputation, we want you to come back.
That you can actually, being the ocean of sweet water, you can feed us the water and save us from the thirst of death. Also, we see in the Bhagavatam when Krishna Krishna Mahayogin, when the friends of Krishna, Hey Rama Amogha Vikrama, when during the forest fire pastime, Krishna’s friends, Krishna Balaram’s friends, they call out to Krishna and Balaram. Please protect us.
Please protect us. So question could be asked that are the friends of Krishna selfish to use Krishna’s protection to save their life? No, actually, their point is if we die in this forest fire tomorrow morning, you will have nobody to play with. Krishna, you like to play with friends.
We know. So if we die in the forest fire with us, dies your friendship. So therefore, please protect us so that we stay alive.
And when we stay alive, your friendship with us stays alive and you get another day to play with us, hopefully. So even in the calling of the friends to protect their life, they’re thinking about Krishna’s play the next day. So what to speak of the Gopis? What to speak of the Gopis? The Gopis are saying the greatest suffering here is not moving, wandering from one forest to another in the middle of the night as Gopis is not being able to see you.
And we are able to relate to your pain of not being able to see us. We are concerned about your. So it’s almost like saying it’s easier to be Dasarath and die in separation from Ram than to live all one’s life as Nanda Maharaj tolerating that separation.
So, Krishna, we may as well die in the separation. But if we die, what will happen to you as Gopinath? So we will continue to live for your pleasure. So if you want, we are thinking about you.
And if you want to reciprocate, just come. Just just just come out. Don’t don’t hide.
This is not the time to hide. And so it’s interesting. That’s the greatest dukkha in the heart of the Gopis at this point, where imagine if we are in a place where everybody is crying and weeping and we also end up crying and weeping, then it’s not so much of a suffering because we have like minded people crying with us.
But imagine if we are in a place where everyone’s happy because of one person, Krishna. And in that same place, we are crying in miserable pain because of that one person, Krishna. Then that’s a very bad predicament to be in.
Very bad predicament to be in. So the Gopis are saying that here, by your appearance, O Krishna, has become more glorious than before. Why? Shrayata Indira.
Indira could refer to Lakshmidevi, as Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu pointed out, refers to Radharani. Indira can also refer to wealth, because we see when Krishna appeared, there was a surplus amount of butter and yoghurt and ghee and milk products. So that’s the business for the Vaishyas, for the Gopavamsa.
So that’s wealth. Krishna, by your appearance, wealth has increased, but not just external wealth, internal wealth. Indira also refers to satisfaction of the heart.
So Shrayata Indira Shashvadattari, it seems Lakshmi has just settled down here in Vrindavan because everyone’s so happy. But in that same place where everyone’s so happy because of you, we are crying miserable because of you. Come out.
You can do this. Some thoughts. Hmm.
Yeah, it also strikes me that the first word, Gopi Utsu, and we know Gopi comes from the same beach datu as Gupta, or hidden. Gopi literally means someone who hides something. So this is the very private feelings of the Gopis.
And I really appreciate, Amaranda, thank you so much. Such a beautiful description you just gave. How this is such a private feeling from the heart of the Gopis.
And Krishna, he says, na parye ham niravadya samyujam. I have to repay because I promise. ye yatha mam prapadyante tam sataiva bhajamyam.
I’ve made this solemn promise. I’ll always reciprocate, but I don’t know how to reciprocate with the Gopis. So to reciprocate with the Gopis, he also has to have something private.
And therefore, to go back to our Jagannath Puri University of Brajpram, there’s two prominent classrooms, especially for Gaudiya devotees here. One is the Jagannath Mandir, which represents organised religion. It’s a mass programme of so many people.
And the other is a private programme in the Gambhira. For Krishna to repay that debt to the Gopis, he has to become very reflective. He has to go in isolation with very intimate association and dive deep in it.
Otherwise, it’s not possible. Beautiful. Regarding this point about the Gopis being separated from Krishna and living on for Krishna’s sake only.
I think in Chaitanya Charitam, there’s a verse where Radharani is praying that, Krishna, when you left, my plight became like that of an animal who’s been put in a cage and the cage is set on fire. The animal might at least try to escape from that cage. She said, so like that, I could have left my body.
But your words that I will come back, they are like the latch on the cage. So I’m burning, but I can’t escape from this cage. This body is burning in separation from you.
But if you come back and you see that we are not here to be with you, to serve you, then you will be unhappy. And thinking of your unhappiness and not wanting that unhappiness on you, I am living on. So the Gopis’ existence and their accepting and suffering for the sake of Krishna.
It’s extraordinary. It’s interesting how even Chaitanya Charitamrita and other texts also speak about Krishna heart to heart, talking with the Gopis about the nature of divine love. It’s almost Krishna saying that all of you are expressing your love, but there is no love in this world.
There is no love in this world. And if there is love, there should not be separation. And if there is separation, the person must die.
Point number one, there is no love in this world. And if there is, because love is eternal, the relationship should be eternal and there should be no separation. And if there is separation in true love, then the person must die.
Oh, Gopis, you still haven’t died. Tell me, what’s the reason? So there is true love and there is separation. So there must be death.
But then why are you alive? So the example given, again, very much similar to what His Grace Chaitanya Charan Prabhu gave, example is like that of a bird. The Gopis are mentioning that our life air is like, our prana is like a pakshi, prana pakshi. Our life is like a bird.
And it’s caught in a cage, which is set on fire and the fire is that of separation. So what we want to do is we want to escape, right? But however, outside the cage, there is an eagle sitting. And that is death.
So we have an option of either burning in the fire or escaping the fire and being eaten up by the eagle. So if you’re Krishna, if you’re asking, Krishna, if you’re asking why we are not dying, there is true love and there is separation. And then why we are not dying.
So it’s because the eagle represents death. And the eagle is not coming through to eat us because there is the layer of the fire of separation. So the fire of separation from you, Krishna, is the reason which is burning us and at the same time is stopping the eagle of death from coming and taking us.
Eating us. So therefore, the fire of the separation mode is not letting us live. And it’s not letting us die.
The fire is burning us and at the same time, it’s not letting the eagle eat the bird of our life, the eagle of death eating the bird of our life. So this is the reason why we are not dying, because the eagle representing death fears the fire of separation and is not able to come and devour us. So we are happy to be burning like this.
Neither living nor dying. This is so astonishing. The poetic beauty of the imagery, you know, it’s just so amazing.
We could go on for a long time, but I think it’s late for you also. We will continue. Madhavendra, you want to add something? I have one short comment about this poetic beauty.
The source of all the arts is the Rasalila, if we contemplate on it. And that begins with rag. Rag means attraction.
Krishna’s playing a rag on his flute and the gopis become attracted. And then they have rag, tal, and, let me tell you a thing, or bhav, rag, and tal. So actually the beginning is bhav, is a feeling.
Krishna has this feeling in his heart and he’s calling out for the gopis with the rag and then the tal comes in the form of the gopis’ footsteps and they’re running to that Rasalila. And in that Rasalila you have all the different arts. You have cooking, you have makeup, you have outfits, you have backdrops, you have, you know, paintings on the walls.
You have drama at the end. That’s the culmination of all the different Rasalila. When Krishna leaves and the gopis, they begin acting out Krishna’s pastimes.
So if people really have some attraction, if people have some attraction for the arts, we should learn something about the Rasalila. And it’s a wonderful way to present it, that all the different arts are coming from the Rasalila. And one of the very important ones is poetry.
We’re very fortunate to have Amarinder Prabhu who can help us to relish that. I really appreciate it. I am, whatever I’m speaking, Prabhuji, is like the sound of an instrument.
But both of you are the musicians. Like Ramananda Rai says in the conversation with Mahaprabhu that, Mahaprabhu, I may look like an instrument and the sound may appear to come from my mouth. But actually, oh Mahaprabhu, you are the musician.
The instrument sounds only as good as the musician is. So if something auspicious and favourable is coming from my mouth, it’s only because of the association of both of you. The moon does not have a light of its own, but it’s only happy to reflect the light of the sun.
So for me, I’m happy that the moon has one sun, but I have two. In the dark sky of my ignorance, I’m not a moon, but I’m just giving an example. Both of you are suns.
Thank you, Prabhuji. It’s such a blessing to be able to have a sangha like this, Puraspura, when there’s some back and forth. Because sometimes, even amongst devotees, as someone who speaks a lot, I think I know both of you speak more than myself.
I think you can appreciate this, I think, too. Sometimes the tendency is to start thinking of myself as a speaker. And we’re not speakers, we’re servants.
And as servants, it’s best done when it’s Puraspura, when there’s some back and forth with other devotees. And then we’re understanding, we’re just glorifying Krishna, just as we’re doing the artik. And we don’t make things up, we don’t decide, I’m going to offer some Levi’s jeans to Krishna today, or I’m going to offer some nonsense thing.
But I’m offering what’s been given to me by my Gurudeva, the incense, the lamp, those certain articles. So in a discussion where we’re just repeating what we’ve heard from our Guru Janas and going back and forth from it, then we can understand it in a much deeper way. And I’m really happy.
And Amarendir Prabhu, you’re such a nice example. And you’re being so humble and respectful and dressing us in respectful ways. And there’s some sweetness and beauty in that.
I appreciate that. But it reminds me, your position is something like Shukadev Goswami sitting amongst these old guys. They may be much, much older and senior in some perspective, but they’ve all gathered to hear Shukadev Goswami.
And I really appreciate it very much. You’re our hope. I feel one time, actually, in our backyard here, the neighbour’s dog came in, in the backyard.
And then I was asking, the devotees said, whose dog is this? And just by looking at the dog, they said, oh, that’s John’s dog, the neighbour. And that’s his dog. Just by looking at the dog.
So I was thinking, not every street dog in India has the fortune of being associated to the master. So if by looking at me, if my Gurudev, my Guru Maharaj is remembered, then I think this pet dog’s existence is successful. I’m like the pet dog in the backyard of the Zoom room.
And if my superiors can see the dog collar belt associated with the master, then I think I’m happy. I’m happy to be a pet dog. So I’m just grateful to be here.
And I also want to take the opportunity to offer my obeisances and apologise. Because sometimes, because of my, I would say, arrogant nature, I may sometimes over speak. And sometimes even because of a passionate racing mind, I may not be a good listener.
So I want to apologise to both of you that if I’ve committed any mistake, I’ve crossed over-educate or spoken more than needed, please forgive me. I will try to fix myself. But if you speak like that, then it hurts our hearts.
And it makes us feel like you’re trying to tell us that our mood is that all this mariada, all this etiquette is the most important thing. But we’re not thinking like that. Don’t underestimate Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
I’m just so happy to be here. I’m really so happy to be here. Because to be with superiors and like-minded, Sajatiya, Ashaya, Snigdha, Sadhu, Sangha, Swato Vare.
Rupa Goswami has given definitions of Sadhu Sangha. He said Sajatiya, it must be like-minded. Ashaya, the person must have Snigdha, affection from the heart.
And Swato Vare, they must be superior to us. And in this assembly, I’m getting all three. I’m getting like-minded association.
I’m getting affectionate superiors. And at the same time, those who are experienced. So this is Sadhu Sangha and Lava Matra Sadhu Sangha Sarva Siddhi Hoi.
Krishna Bhakti Janma Moola Hoi Sadhu Sangha. I’m just happy to be here. Thank you.
I appreciate your humility. But at the same time, here we are focussing on reciprocity. So in future, I would, I mean, it’s nice if you just have a free flow discussion.
You know, I think seniority, juniority, it matters to some extent. So ultimately, beyond that, it’s we want to reciprocate, reciprocate with each other. And we want to share.
So I think we focus on sharing and savouring over here rather than on who is senior, who is junior. And since your contributions have been wonderful. It’s the first time you’re here in the Monks Podcast.
And, you know, it’s wonderful. So Madhavanthru, without you, I don’t think we would have dared to take up this topic. We’re discussing various topics and you bring the bring maturity and devotional depth to this whole discussion as well as just to the to this forum itself, not just the content, but it’s just being here.
And I think Chaitanya Charan Prabhu and myself, we are like travellers. And we are hungry and thirsty to eat a mango of Gopi Geet. But Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu is the wish-fulfilling tree under whose shade we can sit and accept that fruit of Gopi Geet because the tree is protecting us from rain.
And the rain could be so many things protecting us from the sunlight and at the same time, giving us the shade and the comfort and the fruit. The fruit comes from the tree. So I think Chaitanya Charan Prabhu and myself, we are very, very fortunate.
Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu, thank you. Introducing us to the Jagannath Puri Institute of Bhajaprem. University of the Puri University of Bhajaprem, I believe.
What is it when you say tree and the shade? I immediately think of a place here in Jagannath Puri. You already know what I’m thinking. That’s the tree, which is the Mahaprasad toothbrush of Jagannath, which is planted by the hand of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
And under which Haridas Thakur took shelter from the sun, from the beating rays of the sun, took shelter in the shade and did his namjapa. And under that tree, Rupa Goswami began to compose the litamadav and vidagdamadav. And we think about Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s Harinam Chintamani.
And in the first chapter of that Harinam Chintamani, he gives a beautiful purport to Jagannath Puri and the Gaura Leela, which I think is appropriate to offer right now. And that is that the mood of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, although he’s a supreme personality of Godhead, he hears from his devotees. And he heard mukti tattva in the mouth of Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya.
He heard rasa tattva from the mouth of Rupa Goswami. He heard nam tattva from the mouth of Haridas Thakur. He heard sadhyasadhana tattva from the mouth of Ramananda Roy.
And he’s teaching us here in this dham. He brought all the devotees, Nityananda, Dwaita, Mukunda, all these senior devotees, he brought them all together, said, come, come, I want to show you someone. And they went to Siddha Bhikkhu.
And he said, here’s this young boy. And I want all of you to bless him. He’s the most qualified person.
And that was Rupa Goswami. And that’s the mood of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. That’s our line.
We don’t look at someone’s age. We look at someone’s qualification. And I want to cry.
Because I’m not qualified at all to speak on these things. I’m an old fossil. I have some use for that, maybe.
But I want to get association with younger, more wonderful devotees like yourself and hear from you. If Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is God himself, and he can hear from these persons, sincerely, I can also hear from Amarinder and Chaitanya Chand. Thank you very much.
Thank you. You’re not an old fossil. You’re an old treasure.
Older the treasure becomes, the more valuable it becomes. Thank you. That’s beautiful.
So usually, I try to summarise at the end. I’m not sure I can summarise today. Mother, you want to speak something? Yeah, Krishnakumar would like to say something.
My humble pronouns and very deep gratitude for this session today. Thank you. To all three of you.
Really, thank you to all three of you and to our Guru Janas and to Sri Aparajit. Actually, just we were talking about this tree and fruit. And just yesterday, I read this bhajan from Kalyana Kalpataru, and I thought it was just appropriate to mention, where Bhaktivinoda Thakur speaks about how if we don’t do proper sadhana, then all we can do is shake the tree, and all the fruit that falls down is the bad fruit.
Oh, God. But if all of you have done the nice sadhana that you have been doing for so many years, then you will get this kind of discussion. So I just wanted to add that.
Thank you. It’s so nice that we went from Radhakund to Shyamkund or Krishnakumar. Okay.
Thank you, Mataji, for that comment. We all can hope to improve. At least I can.
I need to improve my sadhana a lot. But in one sense, for me, the association of devotees like you is itself a part of something that inspires me to do my sadhana. And till now, on the Monks Podcast, we discussed many topics.
I told Amarendra Prabhu, one of his contributions to our movement is that he is really helping devotees get higher taste in relishing Shastra, relishing Shlokas. So when we were planning to have Monks Podcast, rather than discussing some contemporary issues, why not we discuss about relishing Shastra itself. Then we thought of what we could relish, and then Gopik’s topic came up and we thought that you can also be there.
So I think you have given a new flavour to the Monks Podcast also today. So I’ll see if I can bring my summery flavour to this new flavour. It may be a little tough.
But basically, we discussed today on what are the, on what mood should we discuss the Rashtrila. Or rather Gopi Gita specifically. So we started by, we are singing the Gopi Gita.
So it’s good to know the meaning. And then when we talk about our particular tradition, if we don’t give the explanation, others are going to anyway comment on it. And they will propagate misconceptions and people in general get misconceptions.
So in one sense, it’s our responsibility to understand properly and explain it properly. Because this is our legacy. And especially because we are Gaudiya Vaishnavas and Radharani’s love for Krishna is the distinctive contribution of our tradition.
So if we are going to talk about Vanashram Dharma and Karma Yoga and other things, that’s one that’s required. But then how are we different from Sri Vaishnavas or other traditions? So this is our distinctive contribution. And then also, although we may say it’s confidential, at one level it is not because Radha Krishna deities are right there on the altar.
And many places, we have also the Lalita Vishakha and Mayapur, we have the Ashtasakhis. So their position, the nature of their relationship, when people ask questions, if we can’t give answers, then we are failing in our service to defend and explain and glorify our Sampradaya. So if we are meant to glorify, but we can’t even defend, then that’s not, that’s, that’s, we are failing.
And then we talked about when Prabhupada is telling us, be cautious. When we talked, Prabhupada said, don’t, we don’t want Prabhupada, don’t get the impression that they are mundane, that ordinary girls. But Prabhupada says we can’t boycott them.
And we should discuss love in separation. And then you also mentioned, Madanthu, that we may take one statement of Prabhupada and isolate it, decontextualise it. But if you look at the bigger picture, Prabhupada has given Jaya Radha Mata, which is considered an esoteric song.
That was news for me. The Gaudiya Mata and Tulsi and Tulsi Aarti is filled with Manjari Bhaav, which is also esoteric. Use the word outlawed in the Gaudiya Mata.
So Prabhupada has not hidden the tradition, not deprived of the tradition. And we can, so we discuss this topic in a mood of, as Pratap Rudra sang the Gopi Gita for the pleasure of Lord Chaitanya. Similarly, we glorify, we sing, we recite the Gopi Gita and glorify, understand it in the mood for the pleasure of Lord Chaitanya.
Just as we chant the holy names also, there’s a non-difference between, in some ways, between the Kirtan of the holy names and the Gopi Gita. So the words from the next chapter where the Gopis are calling out to Krishna, they’re crying. So there’s this beautiful comparison between the darkness of the night of Vrindavan and the darkness of Kali Yuga.
Just as the Gopis are calling out Krishna’s name, similarly, we are calling out the holy names. And Prabhupada essentially paraphrases the Gopi Gita also as the holy names. So both are glorifications of Krishna and we need all, we, so in that sense, we are simply glorifying Krishna, whichever we, whichever, whether it’s Gopi Gita or chanting the holy names, there’s a non-difference between the two.
Now, if we understand it properly, the Bhagavatam, it promises that we will become free from lust. So for that, we need to hear faithfully and Anushnuri Gita under guidance. So whatever we have heard from the previous Acharyas, whatever we have realised, we try to share today in that mood and discussed various metaphors to understand.
So the two, with respect to appreciating the Gopi Gita, one is, one obstacle is thinking that that love is mundane. And the second is to think that it is, that this love and separation is agony. So for the mundane, we discussed, I talk of the metaphor of, say, reflection and reality.
The love of Krishna and Gopis is the real mango. And the more we understand the real mango, the more we become attached to the reflected mango. And for this love and separation, the beautiful metaphor that Vipralambha and Sambhoga are the two banks of, and within the two banks, the river keeps moving forward.
They’re also like the snake. It may move left, right, but it’s moving forward. Like an axe, it moves back and forward, but it’s cutting the tree.
It’s like a wind and separation, a wind and fire. So then we discussed that beautiful verse from which Krishna is speaking. And he’s speaking that one way, it means to, he’s telling the Gopis from the Parapaksha, is it Parapaksha? The opposite Paksha, Viprapaksha to go away.
And he’s telling the Radharani and the Gopis, Radharani to specifically stay. So the poetry of the Gopi Gita, the exquisite poetry of the Gopi Gita is in one sense, prefaced or presaged in that poetry of Krishna also. And then Madan Priya especially mentioned about how the, as I said, the Vraja, the Jagannath Puri University of Vraja Prem.
So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s essential mood is love for Krishna. And there is the, he accepted the institutionalised form of Jagannath Puri temple. But at the same time, he had his private space.