Gopi Gita Appreciation part 5, The Monk’s Podcast 170 – Madhavananda Prabhu & Amarendra Prabhu

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Yes, Madhavanthru, Avarindhru, thank you very much for joining once again. This has been such a relishable series of podcasts and we’ll continue today. We’d like to lead us with prayers, Madhavanthru.
Gaura gluganya gana gotu galodu haram Gauranga gurutama gopyada kopa bhriksham Kopala gada rathidam yati singha gora govinda desi kavaram satatam namahe uttama adhama kicchuna bhajila jachiya dile kakola kahe premananda emana gauranga hridaya dhariya bola bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga laha gaurangera namare je jana gauranga bhaje se hoyamara pranare hade krishna hade krishna krishna krishna hare hare hade rama hade rama rama rama hare hare yasyaiva padambuja bhakti labhya prema abhidhana paramah pumartaha tasmai jagan mangala mangalaya madhgave api gopala sri kriyat kriyat jyoti tadaiva sambhaya pritvarishe yushtakriya janaha Oh Gopal, please, you’re famous as a cowherd boy. Please accept and maintain the cows in the form of our words. Please get the pleasure of drinking the milk from those cows and inspire others to do the same.
sri krishna krishna chaitanya sa sanatana rupaka gopala ragunatha prajabhalava pahimam vancha kopatarubhischa kripasindubhyaheva cha patitanam bhavanebhyo vaisnabebhyo namo namaha sri krishna chaitanya prabhu nityananda sri advaita gadadha shiva sari gora bhakta brinda hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare Beautiful. Thank you very much. So, we have been discussing till now the Bhagavatam the 30 verse chapter and we have come till the second verse we discussed in two sessions and the first verse also we discussed because it’s almost only one session So, I thought we’ll discuss the third verse and we’ll do a link from the second verse thereafter.
So, vishajalapyayad vyalarakshasad varshamarutad vaidintanalad vishmayatmajad vishvatobhaya Actually, Mr. Rai is reciting this reading this Amarendra Prabhu, you can recite it for us. Yeah, I have a comment that I’m not going to be satisfied with this session today I just won’t be satisfied in my heart unless I hear Amarendra Prabhu sing this verse. Please, please.
vishajalapyayad vyalarakshasad varshamarutad vaidintanalad vishmayatmajad vishvatobhaya rishabhate vayam rakshitam That’s beautiful. Wonderful. So, this quick intro The previous verse stated that Krishna neha kim vadaha You are so beautiful and we are serving you out of love as your maidservants You are the giver of benedictions but why are you killing us? So, that killing him from separation and now here this verse is saying that this killing is contrary not just to your eternal nature but it’s contrary to the way you have acted with us till now You actually saved us from so many dangers So, then those, the very people whom you save from dangers how can you kill them now? So, here they give a list of various dangers that they faced and here the Gopis are using we in a collective sense It’s not necessarily they themselves but the Vrajivasis in general even if it could be the Gopas or could be somebody else So, vishajalapyayad is the poison waters that refers to generally considered to refer to Kaliya and then there are different Vyala Rakshasad, Varshama Arutad So, Vyala is generally the snakes that refers to Aghasur Varshama Arutad, Vajjintanalad This is the three lines, the govardhan three words govardhanila where Krishna protected from Indra is mentioned and Vrishamayatmajad, Vishvatobhayad So, generally this Vrisham Arishtasur and Mayadana It’s interesting that these two demons have not yet come They are going to come in the future and the Gopis are referring to that They are also Yoginis in devotion They say this Vishvatobhayad They are feared by the entire universe but you protected us from the Vrishabhatevayam, Vrishabho, powerful one You protected us us from the Vrakshitam Time and time again you have protected us So, how can you kill us now? So, in the previous verse we discussed elaborately about how Krishna has the separation from Krishna and the intensification of devotion separation from Krishna is actually the highest perfection of the Gauri Vaishnavas but at the same time it does appear like agony and it is in this state of agony in separation from Krishna that the Gopis are pouring out their heart beseeching Krishna to come So, Krishna, don’t kill us Please come back That’s the underlying motive Yes You can continue Madhavan, so you would like to start with something? Yeah, one of the first things that’s interesting about this verse the Gopis here they are addressing Krishna that you saved us as you pointed out in a plural way from so many different demons but the Gopis were not present when Aghasura was there the Gopis were not present when when was it Vatsasura was there and both of them are being mentioned here why are they mentioning this? and it is an interesting point Jiva Goswami makes in his commentary he says that he points out that the Gopis here are speaking in two ways both individually and collectively and so they are indicating that collectively we are part we are part of the group we are part of the Brijbhasis you saved us, meaning all the Brijbhasis when you killed Aghasura but they are also speaking in an individual way they are indicating in an individual way that Krishna, he saved the cowherd boys as individual persons so I this to me is a very important principle in spiritual life that there is both a collective sense and an individual sense and that is a very very important thing I have often commented, I won’t go into it elaborately here but here in Jagannath Puri we see in a collective sense Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was going to Ratha Yatra he was going to the Jagannath Mandir but he also functioned in a more individual sense in the Gambhira with just a few devotees and this is an expression coming from the Gopis this is very important, we want to identify with the group in one sense we want to support the organised religion of the Jagannath Mandir and that, but at the same time Krishna you are an individual and you are treating us all as individuals that’s a very broad point that I see right away versus a lot of other particular points yes, so that sense of identifying with the whole while also maintaining one’s own identity that in one sense is Sachintha Bheda Bhed so sometimes it’s said that the eastern culture is more collectivist and western culture is more individualist and that is true but then it’s not that collectivism is always good and individualism is always bad it is just that excess becomes a problem so we do need that harmony between the two I think the harmony comes when the overall purpose of both is the same the group is serving Krishna and the individual is serving Krishna so sometimes I like, I mean we could I don’t want to prolong the point but it’s like in sports there is individual sports and there is team sports so in one sense Bhakti is like a team sports but it’s not just a team sport I won’t go so far as to say it’s like an individual sport but it’s like a team sport in which each of us also has our individual relationship with Krishna that individual aspect is also very much there so it’s a beautiful point Amitabh you want to add something on this or you take it to another point yeah actually my mind is still at the second verse so maybe maybe a quick quick point on the second verse do you want me to share the screen or something it will definitely help it will definitely help so in the second verse very interesting that the word surat naat te ashul kadasika so we have discussed the other sections but I maybe want to for a few minutes just speak on that line, the third line actually our acharyas have given three meanings to that section so they say the word first of all the word surat naat from a most submissive point naat refers to the lord and surat refers to madhurya prem or the conjugal mood so you are the lord of conjugal mood and we are your ashul kadasika we are your unpaid maidservants this is the general understanding which is true but then the meaning goes little more intense with the second understanding so from the we mentioned from the dakshina perspective the more submissive perspective in the second meaning it’s the vamya perspective, the more leftist mood there the word naata actually means to torture in sanskrit and the word surata can be broken very beautifully, su means sushtu which means very nice and rata means absorption so sushtu ratanam jananam sanathan goswami has written this in his that naata means to destroy or to attack or to torture and su means very nice and rata means absorbed so Krishna you are expert at torturing those who are very absorbed in saintly activities like look at the lotus it is just absorbed in rasa, in the pond it doesn’t interfere with anybody’s business the lotus is absorbed in the pool of rasa, rasa meaning water, rasa meaning devotion, both so the lotus there is absorbed and minding its own business surata, it is very sweetly absorbed in its own thing but torture, you are stealing from it and we are also like that surata we are very deeply absorbed in love to your lotus feet and naata you are torturing us so that’s the second meaning so first meaning is you are the lord of madhuriya prema and we are your unpaid maid servants this is the contrast in your position and my position, but in the vamya or in the leftist camp, we are your unpaid maid servants, that’s true but who are you? we are very deeply attached and absorbed in love and you torture those who are absorbed in love to you look at all the examples all those who sold themselves to you, you torture them the most as Sripad Bilvamangala Thakur has said, those who come to you saying that my lord, we surrender to you you take more from them than others, so surata those who are actually very deeply absorbed in devotion, you know how to torture them so this is the leftist mood now it gets even more intense in the third interpretation, grammatically now we see the word naata, now naata is actually lord, naata means lord like Badrinath, Ramnath Dwarkanath, Vrajanath Gopinath, naata means lord, but however poetically and grammatically when we see the next word as te naathate is a word in itself in Sanskrit like for example, when we say sevate, that means he is serving, labhate he is gaining manyate, he is considering vandate, he is praying, similarly there is a verb, naathate and what does that mean? that means to beg, in Sanskrit so if you take the word naatha separately, that means lord, but when you pull it together with te, that means to beg, so interestingly the flow of thought is, it starts with the word drisha, drisha means with the eye you Krishna, you begged us through your glands that you want to meet us drisha with your glands surata to meet naathate, you begged and therefore we being your unpaid maid servants we came, just because you with your glands you begged that you want to meet, we didn’t want to meet, we just wanted to fulfil what you wanted, so you naathate, you begged drisha with your glands to meet us and therefore we left our family and we came because we are your ashul kadasika, we are your unpaid maid servants and you left us, isn’t this murder where we don’t want it, we came just to fulfil what you wanted, it’s like someone who’s hungry for food and we come all the way to give him the food and that person is the one who backstabs but at the same time with all these three interpretations holding true, there’s one more understanding now if we see ashul kadasika now the word dasika, they could have said dasi or dasyaha in the plural sense which means we are servants, why say dasika in Sanskrit when the syllable ka is added it heightens the effect with tender hearted feeling for example when you have to say gopi, that means a cowherd girl but when you say gopika that means a tender hearted cowherd girl when you say Radha, that’s enough to say it’s Sri Radha but then you add Radhika the syllable ka there to say that oh that’s soft hearted Radha similarly we can say amba, amba means mother in Sanskrit but then when you say soft hearted mother ambika so similarly dasi who are you, you torture the innocent and who are we we are not just servants we are tender hearted maidservants and at the same time the word, it’s very interesting, they have placed it poetically so nicely that surat anata te and now there’s a mix, with the te hides the ashul kadasika, so it’s almost sung as shul kadasika right, so poetically you can take the meaning as ashul ka or you can take it as shul ka which means one meaning is you are the torturer and we are your unpaid maidservants or another meaning is exact opposite you are torturer and we are your paid maidservants and what are we what are we supposed to be paid with drisha, your glance we became your servants on the pay that you will glance on us and imagine someone who works hard all day and is promised hundred thousand dollars that year and then he’s working so hard and then when it’s time to pay, the person says forget it, I’m not going to pay you anything so the gopis are saying we are not unpaid maidservants, we are paid maidservants, shul kadasika and what’s our pay, drisha, your glance and the only thing that we were promised, we are not being offered on the payday, so isn’t this murder Krishna so these were some thoughts on the second verse amazing beautiful shulka and ashulka both meanings work out to give the same essential conclusion but in different ways I think in bhagavad gita there is a word aparyaptam tad asmakam balam bhima abhirakshitam so that something similar comes up he uses the word paryaptam and aparyaptam so Duryodhana is speaking and he is saying that our forces are immeasurable aparyaptam is immeasurable and he is saying that the implication is we have 11 nakshahuni, far greater than you, far greater than them so we are sure to win but then aparyaptam can also mean that those are not sufficient so and the idea is that is it a mistake, it could be a mistake from his side, a slip of tongue but it’s also explained that we are sufficient because we have such forces and we have Bhishma as the commander but aparyaptam we have Bhishma as the commander but he is old now, he is weak so all of you other forces you also have to support, you also have to join in so next verse is ayanichu sarveshu where all of you situated all of you should also fight and support Bhishma but of course that’s a more martial context this is an entirely devotional context it’s amazing how you, it requires incredible level of expertise in words to actually have the opposite meaning of a word lead to the same conclusion of the sentence otherwise it just becomes completely opposite so true even the word varada is very interestingly placed varada nignato na ihakimbada now the word varada is very famous in south India as varadaraj varam dadati, now in Sanskrit whenever the syllable da comes at the end it means dadati, to give, to bestow like mother yashoda gives fame to Krishna therefore yasha dadati she can give yasha even to the all famous therefore she is yashoda kirtida similarly sharada jnanada, harishada names for mother saraswati, she who can give knowledge, she who can give happiness so da for male and da for female so here they use the word varada vara means boon and da means the one who can bestow, so you can bestow the boons in the submissive mood of chandravali and others that you can fulfil all our desires and all our boons, please that’s one but in Sanskrit the syllable da which means to benedict it also means avakandanam which means to destroy so he who can bestow the best boons is now turning out to be the greatest destroyer of boons what a wonderful boon to be together in vrindavan so the same syllable which means to bestow the boon varam dadati ithi it also means varam avakandanam which means to destroy the best boon we are here, you are here it’s the full moon night of sarath purnima vrindadevi has made the best arrangement it’s the best benefact, you know benedicting moon it’s the best benedicting atmosphere but because you are varada you are expert in destroying boons we don’t even want to talk to you you are a murderer, so that’s another perspective, sorry for for speaking so much, I feel very embarrassed, please forgive me this whole presentation that Amarandha Prabhu was very wonderfully making sometimes devotees become maybe a little disturbed by it will Prabhupada translate it one way of course we can also point out if you look at the Bhayambhutiya Shat verse for example from the 11th canto of the Bhagavatam I think there’s at least 3 maybe 4 practically completely different translations that Srila Prabhupada gave so another reflection on what Amarandha Prabhu was saying in the 47th chapter of the 10th canto it says that the gopis their minds were applied to Krishna and Jiva Goswami says that it means that it means their their minds were independent and that’s a really interesting point that sometimes we’re dependent on a particular way that Srila Prabhupada gave something, we think it only has there’s only one meaning but there’s so many different meanings and the gopis they’re independent thinkers according to Jiva Goswami and as it is described in that chapter, the Bhagavatam their independent thinking means they don’t think like everybody else who are thinking for their own benefit who are thinking that religion means like that, for what can I get out of it, how can I get purified how can I get this thing or that thing but the independent thinking of the gopis is that they’re independent of those desires, they just want to please Krishna so it’s a very very high it’s a very subtle thing because we’re hearing the gopis understanding how to please Krishna in a way that we don’t find throughout the world and all the temples and mosques and synagogues Krishna is glorified as God and he’s worshipped in so many ways but in the Bhagavatam, the gopis are calling him a murderer and even for devotees it’s a very difficult thing to get their head around but they’re independent thinkers it’s beautiful so it’s almost like last time we discussed in love, a person can call others strongly but that doesn’t contaminate, that doesn’t weaken the love, that only actually expresses the love, how great the love is that you can use such words for most of us we need to learn reverence and then we can come to intimacy so true, actually my mind also goes to one more verse of the Chaitanya Charita Amrit Prabhuji this is actually Mahaprabhu speaking to Sanatana Goswami Srimad Bhagavatam is as great as Krishna the supreme lord and shelter of everything in each and every verse of Srimad Bhagavatam and each and every syllable there are various meanings this is Mahaprabhu Chaitanya Mahaprabhu speaking that prati shloke every verse, prati akshare every syllable practically nana arthakai, they have different multifarious meanings and Krishna tuliya bhagavad vibhu sarvasya, Srimad Bhagavatam is as big and as unlimited qualitatively and quantitatively as Krishna and therefore worthy of giving shelter to everyone so this is in line with Srimad Madhavanand Prabhu’s statement that every syllable and every verse can have so many layers of meaning and he quoted the verse from the 11th canto having multiple meanings and here also Gopi is having intertwining multiple and different meanings with the same arrangement of syllables so it’s beautiful like that it’s just in line with Mahaprabhu’s statement and this is by the way Nimai Pandit speaking who is so scholarly linguistically, devotionally and of course as the supreme lord, that he knows what he is saying, to Sanatan Goswami that too, one of the leading commentators on the Bhagavatam Atmaram verse chapter isn’t it? Atmaram verse explained? yeah beautiful I think Madhavacharya has said that maybe I mentioned that each name has a thousand meanings and I think he gave the thousand meanings only for the first two three names but it’s fascinating how many meanings could be there, thousand to thousand you already have so much nectar to churn I want to link this to the next verse now Madhavan do you want to comment something otherwise? I would like to go to the third verse I’m happy with that I’m really struck just by the first couple syllables in this verse visajala, that the poisonous water, and I hear they’re speaking about Kaliya and Kaliya dhamana lila they’re indicating that Krishna you saved us from the demon Kaliya and this word visajala are significant it reminds me of Kavi Karnapur in his Ananda Vrindavan Champu he says there that Yamunaya Hridhroga that Kaliya was a heart disease Hridhroga in the Yamuna and the Yamuna, what is the Yamuna? in Harivamsa Purana it describes it Shiva Jalasaya, the same word Jala Shiva Jalasaya that the Yamuna is that thing which gives life to bridge so again, indicating right away in this verse, the Gopis as Jiva Vashrami indicates they’re saying two things they’re saying something collective and they’re saying something individual and in a collective way, visajala that this Yamuna this Yamuna which is Shiva Jalasaya, according to Harivamsa Purana it’s life of all of us water is life and Kaliya came and he poisoned that and so you saved us from that so it indicates something both collective and individual and in a collective way I think a nice example of that is grass in America people like to grow lawns in other places in the world they like to grow vegetables in America they grow lawns and the lawn looks like one thing, it looks like one entity, but if you go and look closely you’ll see that each individual blade of grass is different from all the other blades of grass, some of them are little diseased some of them are eaten by insects some of them are strong and beautiful and collectively and individually so we help the collective sense when we become strong as individuals so the Gopis, they’re independent thinkers, and Srila Prabhupada also in his famous letter he wrote to Kurundar Prabhu who at that time was like Kurundar was like the leader in ISKCON, he was the main GBC Prabhupada said the purpose of the Krishna conscious movement is to create independent thinkers and what does that mean? It doesn’t mean that we we should learn to think the way Srila Prabhupada taught us we should learn to think through Shastra in a kind of collective ways the Gopis are doing here they’re indicating Vishajala in a collective way but also as individuals because as individuals we make the whole, the collective strong when we’re strong as individuals but when we give up the sense of individualism then, and we just, we call that merging and that’s detrimental, that’s something which the Gaudiya Vaishnavas don’t want it’s something that Krishna doesn’t want so that’s just my thoughts on the first couple syllables of the verse Vishajala thank you my mind is again stunned with the poetic genius of the Gopis here keeping the same system intact of the first syllable and the seventh syllable being the same starts off with V as in Visha and then the seventh syllable is Vyala, again it’s a V and the second line is Varsha, starting with a V and after the pause it’s Vaidyutanalad, again with a V in the third line it’s again starting with a V Vrishamayatmaja, then after the pause the seventh syllable is Vishvatobhayat, again it’s a V and then in the last line starts with an R Rishabhatevayam, and after that phrase, Rakshitamuhu, again it’s an R and not just the first and the seventh syllable we see that even the second syllable throughout is consistent, Visha Jalapayad Vyalarakshasad Varsha Marutad Vaidyutanalad, Vrishamayatmaja Vishvatobhayat Rishabh so the Sha has been used as the second syllable in all the four lines as far as poetry is concerned, and also from a grammatical perspective, the first word that they have used is phenomenal genius, phenomenal genius in Sanskrit you call them as Samas or compounds when words are put together in a certain construct so actually if you see the word Visha means poison and the word Jala means water so if you technically just translate that, that will translate as poison water and it doesn’t make any sense so the actual phrase is Vishamishrita Jalam which means that water which is mixed with poison then it makes sense, poisonous water but if you just put poison water it doesn’t make much sense, Visha and Jala so actually the term is Vishamishrita Jalam which means that water which is mixed with poison however, in Sanskrit this is called as a Madhyamapadalopisamas which means when three words come together in a certain way the middle term disappears and the first and third term are used together like the three words are Visha which means poison Mishrita which means to be mixed with and Jalam means water, so there are three words actually, Visha, Mishrita, Jalam but they are using this as a Madhyapadalopisamas where three words come together and the middle word disappears and what remains is only the first and the third word and then they are put together so Vishamishrita Jalam Mishrita is gone so it comes together as Vishajala so even in their transcendental separation I would like to say that where there is where there is an explosion of divine ecstatic love, all transcendental knowledge takes shelter there so it’s not that the Gopis are sitting there figuring out how to fit the metre and how to sing it linguistically and poetically accurate, they are just singing, it’s an outburst of their devotion and all grammatical rules are aligning to serve their lotus feet and one more thing that I am really fascinated by is how they are putting the word Rakshasa and Rakshita together in the same verse because they have almost opposite meanings, now the word Rakshita means to be protected by someone and the word Rakshasa which means a cannibal comes according to the Sanskrit term, it means Vayam Rakshamaha those who think that I can protect myself they are called Rakshasas in Shastra Vayam Rakshamaha, who protects me oh we can protect ourselves this mentality is considered to be wicked or Rakshasa, demoniac although it also means to be a cannibal and to eat human flesh, so the Gopis are saying you were able to destroy those you were able to destroy those who had this notion or this understanding that we can protect ourselves but on the other hand we who are convinced that only you can protect us, you are not ready to protect us you are ready to uplift those demons, demoniac Rakshasas who are convinced that they can protect themselves but on the other hand we as the Gopis we are convinced we can protect ourselves, we depend on you for protection but you are not ready to protect us you are ready to uplift all those demons all the Agasurs and Bakasurs but you are not ready to uplift us so this contrast is what is very interesting Srimad Madhavananda Prabhu would you like to correct or improve Thank you Krishna I again in this verse I’m very interested in this subject about we call it living alone in the crowd and the dynamic of being both having a collective consciousness and an individual consciousness and this verse is really really good for that so here we see that the Gopis are referring to Kaliya and Kaliya is mentioned in many different ways by our Acharyas that their pastime is given a little differently in different literatures of our previous Acharyas, I’m remembering the words that Balaram spoke to Krishna in the Bihadbhagavatamrita which is a very beautiful description of the Kaliya Dhamma and Lila he says when he saw that everybody was laying there on the ground as though they were going to die because this terrible poison, this was troubling everyone in Vrindavan then Balaram became very sorrowful Balaram is Adi Guru and when Gurudev sees that the devotees are suffering and they’re expressing that suffering as you were just saying Amarendir Prabhu, it’s not that they’re taking shelter of themselves, their own strength but they’re taking shelter of Krishna and then at that time Gurudev intercedes and he calls out to Krishna, so then Balaram at that point he calls out to Krishna na vanaras te na chayadava api goloka loka bhava eka jivana nasyantya sakhya bhagavan mayavito Baladeva Balaram he told Krishna he used to say eti na vaikuntha nivasi parasiddha these aren’t your parasiddhas who are living with you in Vaikuntha na vanaras te these aren’t the monkeys who are living with you when you were Lord Ramachandra who were living in the forest na chayadava api these aren’t the members of the Yadu dynasty, goloka loka these are the residents of goloka Vrindavan bhava eka jivana they only have one life eka jivana, that one life is you and now nasyantya sakhya bhagavan mayavito they’re all dying because they’re seeing you in the coils of Kaliya they’re all going to die so this is also the Bhisha Jala, that Jala is the life water and what is that life water? In another sense it’s Krishna and when the gopis are seeing that Krishna the gopis and all the residents of Vrindavan are seeing that Krishna is in the coils of Kaliya then they’re lamenting and they’re going to die and Balaram at that point he speaks up, just as Gurudev when he may not intercede on behalf of the disciple until he sees that the disciple has this attitude I’m dying, my head is on fire please help me, please help me and then at that time Gurudev intercedes, Balaram intercedes and he speaks like this to Krishna Balaram Balaram told him that Krishna you’re Karunamoyi you’re very very kind you’re a very kind person please, you do something because if you don’t do something, these devotees Pranayviyukta they’re going to die, they’re going to become separated from their life heirs do something before that happens because if you don’t do that then you’re going to suffer which again reminds me also of the statements of the gopis that the gopis, they’re speaking like this to Krishna that you should give us your drisha your glance, why? because that ultimately is going to give pleasure to you and the gopis, they’re independent thinkers in the sense that they’re not thinking like everybody else the gopis are thinking, how can we please you Krishna, that’s all that we want so similarly Balaram is telling Krishna, if you don’t do something right now if you don’t save them from Kaliya then this is going to break your heart everybody in Braj is worried about Krishna whereas the religionists in the world, they’re worried about themselves and that’s why in the end of the Gita Krishna says sarva dharma parityoga he doesn’t say sarva papa parityoga he doesn’t say give up sin he says give up religion because your dharma means your particular dharma, your desires and just mam ekam saranam braja you take shelter of me or as my grandma has commented, the word braja there means in the mood of braj and that he said was the end of the Bhagavad Gita, when Krishna remembered braj then he couldn’t speak anymore and basically Bhagavad Gita was finished at that point, so we should learn to be independent thinkers like the gopis are independent thinkers, not that we’re letting everybody else tell us how to think we’re not following what the massive people think, but as individuals we’re thinking how can we please Krishna what is Krishna’s desire so that’s my thought on those things Chaitanya Chabu, are you still there? I think he’s about to come I’m also very positively attracted to this thought that the gopis could have put any asura or any rakshasa in any order but they start off with Kaliya it’s very interesting what do you think Prabhuji, is it something to do with purvarag is it the heart of the gopis, they somehow have a soft corner for Kaliya because he was the stage of Krishna’s dancing and that dancing was during the time of their first meet with Krishna Kaliya is very, there’s two leelas which are very special for the Brijbhasis in Baraj, one is Govardhan Dharana leela and the other is Kaliya Dharana leela last time you mentioned about purvarag is important because this is the first time that the gopis are all standing and they can just look at Krishna to their heart’s delight so beautiful so beautiful, I heard one senior Vaishnav say in a very interesting way he said that Krishna teaches through Kaliya a very important lesson for Vaishnavas and what is that lesson, he says that however sinful one is, as sinful as Kaliya, if one has one’s body stamped with the footprint of Krishna’s lotus feet then the Garuda of death or rebirth cannot touch us so then I was interested to know what is that stamp and he said tilak he said we are like Kaliya and if we can have tilak markings all over our body which represents the lotus footprint of the supreme lord, it’s like Krishna dancing on the Kaliya of our body then we will be protected we will be protected by the Garuda influence, of course Garuda is a great Vaishnav but he is also the enemy for Kaliya, so we could say that the Kaliya who fears Garuda of punishment will be saved if he imprints his body with tilak, so it was very beautiful practical point from the Kaliya, I had never thought of it like that yeah, that’s wonderful it reminds me of your Guru Maharaj, of Radha Govinda Maharaj, I some years ago I was asked to speak about Kaliya dhamana leela, the Govardhan retreat, and I was struggling doing the best I can, speaking from the perspective, based on the foundation of Bhaktivinoda Thakura says about that pastime, which is a whole another topic, but I gone through and I was satisfied with so many different points, but there was one point that I wasn’t satisfied with, and that’s how we know in the third canto there’s a verse that it begins, that how merciful you are Krishna, because the older sister of Bhaktsura, Putana you delivered her and in the same way it’s described how merciful Krishna is, that he’s merciful to Kaliya and I just wasn’t satisfied, how is he merciful to Kaliya, he drives him out he makes him leave Vrindavan, how is that mercy if you tell someone get out of here, go away especially leave Vrindavan how is that mercy, and Bhaktivinoda Thakura comments, he says that because Kaliya, although he got so much mercy from Krishna he didn’t take shelter of any of the bridge bosses, therefore he had to leave, okay, that’s there, but still, Kaliya got so much mercy, Krishna was putting his feet on his head, and now this is mercy, that he’s driving him away and then that last day I was going for a walk by Govardhan Hill by myself, I was chanting I was meditating on this, and an answer came to my mind, which I spoke that morning before the devotees and somehow they were all satisfied with our explanation, but I wanted to support it, so I didn’t it was just my own conjecture so it’s said in Shastra that you should go to a Brahmin, some exalted Vaishnav to support something so I went to Srila Radhika Vrindavan, and I said Maharaj, I presented the whole dilemma to him, how can we say that Kaliya is a recipient of Krishna’s mercy when Krishna drove him out of bridge and Maharaj gave the exact same answer which I gave, without me stating that answer I was very very satisfied, like Krishna okay, it’s confirmed now, and he says that he told me that when Krishna drove Kaliya out, where did Kaliya go to? Kaliya went to Ramanakadweep and going to Ramanakadweep means what? He’s a homeboy we have that saying in America, that’s where he’s from, and he goes back and there’s going to be all the snakes and creatures there, so when he goes there what’s naturally going to happen? Kaliya, you’ve been gone for several yugas now where have you been? What’s been going on? And what’s Kaliya going to do? Naturally he’s going to say, sit down, I’ve got a story to tell you there’s a place called Vrindavan and there’s this wonderful boy named Krishna and he’s going to speak this Krishna Katha, and all the snakes are going to come and what occurred to us also is who goes to Ramanakadweep every day for lunch, it’s kind of like his fast food programme, that’s Garuda so Garuda’s going to go there also, he’s going to see a big crowd of snakes all gathered around and he’s naturally going to be curious what’s going on and he’s going to find Kaliya there, he’s speaking Krishna Katha, and Garuda being a devotee, he’s also going to become very attractive, naturally it’s not said, but we can it’s logical surmise to follow this way Garuda’s also going to sit down and he’s going to take part in Krishna Katha and that’s very interesting, because Garuda is the ultimate enemy of the snakes and so the purport is that Krishna Katha brings everyone together it’ll even bring the snakes together with Garuda, and our point which Radha Govindamar has confirmed, was that it’s his mercy on Kaliya, because in effect he’s telling him, now you leave, you go and preach, just as Srila Prabhupada, he gave Vrindavan to all of his western disciples, and he brought them there, and he took them on Kurukshetra, and he spoke Krishna Katha to them at the Radha Damodara temple and other places and he said, now go away, get out of here, the same way Krishna told Kaliya to leave, you go and you preach, and in that preaching we’re always with Krishna in fact, in a deeper way, we’re with Krishna because we’re fulfilling Krishna’s desire, just like the Gopis are independent thinkers, meaning that they want to think of Krishna’s desire Krishna Kondehar is here with me, my wife and she’s jumping up and down she has something she just wants to say She’s not thirsty exactly but just something simple I just wanted to add something simple, because this question came up by exactly Kaliya Damodara that the Gopis are remembering, or bringing up by using the phrase Vishwajala and also you mentioned earlier, why do they mention Vatsasura, they weren’t there, because it’s both individual and collective prayers, and I was thinking about the part of the Bhagavatam where Lord Brahma takes all the demigods with him to go and beg the Lord to come, because collective prayers have more power, and I was thinking the Gopis are invoking Kaliya Damodara because all the Vatsasuras were there so they are bringing on all the Vatsasuras and all the Vajabhasis.
In other words, maybe the Gopis are kind of saying that Krishna, you may not listen to us you didn’t just save us, you saved everybody I also feel there is some there’s some favouritism that Krishna has towards Kaliya because it’s interesting that Kaliya is dark in complexion and therefore he is Krishna and Krishna is all-attractive and therefore he is Krishna because the word Krishna in Sanskrit can mean dark complexion, it can also mean the all-attractive Lord Shrila Shukdev Goswami says that the dark snake was living in the dark waters and to free the dark waters of Yamuna from the dark snake, the dark complexion Lord jumped in. The word Krishna has come thrice in that same verse so Krishna has some favouritism there because both are Krishna The snake is also Krishna because of dark complexion and Krishna is Krishna because he is all-attractive but apart from that, both of them also have one common similarity What is that? It’s kind of going towards Parakhiya Bhavana Kaliya he is actually living in the house of another man with his wife because Krishna because Yamuna as Kalindi is the wife of Krishna and Kaliya is living in the house of Krishna with his wife which is Yamuna so if Krishna kills Kaliya for this fault then the Parakhiya Bhava of Braj will tumble to ashes because you are killing someone who is a dark complexion paramour Kaliya is a dark complexion paramour because he is living in the house of Krishna associating with Krishna’s wife who is Yamuna so then you can’t Krishna cannot speak about Parakhiya Bhava Parakhiya Bhava if he chastises Kaliya so he has to give special favour and special position to Kaliya so that’s like the spring point, the jumping point for Parakhiya Bhava and all the beautiful Braja Leelas It’s amazing we try to remember the various pastimes of Krishna but it’s not on many occasions that we have devotees remembering other pastimes in which they may or may not be a part of it is there, when it is there it is quite special we have Bhishma in the first canto remembering the Gopis in Vrindavan mad in separation from Krishna so this interconnectedness of Krishna Leelas it actually opens a whole new dimension of fascinating contemplation so thank you for that Isha Jala Kaliya Do you want to go to Vyala Rakshasad or you have something more to say I am sure you have a lot more about Kaliya you could have a whole class on Kaliya itself but at this point Sure, we could move to Vyala Rakshasad Sripad Madhava Nanda Prabhu do you want to start off with Vyala Rakshasad maybe Agasura Agasura is a very interesting personality also I like whenever we speak about the demons I like very much to meditate on Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s presentation in Chaitanya Sikshamrita and in Krishna Samhita and I find it very interesting without going into so many details about that, look back at Kaliya we will give Kaliya as an example sometimes we may think that Bhaktivinoda Thakura is very innovative and he is giving something which is really really different but actually if you look deep in the grammatical explanations of the different words and in Shastra, in different Puranas like Brahma Vyavarta Purana and another Harivamsa Purana you will see what Bhaktivinoda Thakura says is actually substantiated in different ways and for example with Kaliya he says that Kaliya Dhamma indicates Abhimanyu Kalita Parakarita someone who has this Abhimanyu who is Kalita, who is very wicked Parakarita who wants to hurt other people who is Prarita, who is very cruel Jividoyasunya to Durikarna, this is his explanation in Chaitanya Sikshamrita he has no compassion Durikarna means to remove or become distant, like being a Drik in the third canto of the Bhagavatam to be a separatist, it means that they are not thinking of Krishna’s pleasure they are not thinking of the Lord’s pleasure they are thinking of themselves so we may think this is Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s far out explanation but actually if you contemplate on the word Kaliya Kala has several different meanings, Kala means something black it means a kind of black poisonous snake, it means night, it means iron but another meaning of the word Kala is to censure, to abuse to criticise someone and the suffix Iya just like we have the word Godiya Iya means to belong to so Godiya means someone who belongs to Godadesh, that’s a Godiya so Iya means some in this particular Kaliya means someone who possesses or has these particular qualities of censure, of criticism which is exactly what Bhaktivinoda Thakura is speaking about so this is the Jamuna Rig Roga, Kaliya is that heart disease in the Jamuna, therefore he is a Bhishajala he is poisoning that water and then the Gopis go on to mention Agasura which I found very interesting Aga also means sin and I find this interesting again because the cowherd boys they were involved with Agasura and the Gopis didn’t even hear about it for one full year we know because of Brahma Mohana Leela they didn’t even hear about Krishna killing Aga and this Agasura again is significant to me I’m very much interested I’m absorbed in thinking of this thing both collective and individual to continue with that theme with Agasura it’s important because the boys they went into the mouth of Agasura and when they went in initially they were by themselves and they died but then later they again revisited that demon whose dead body was lying there with Krishna and when they were visited with Krishna it became like a playground for them so I see someone recently made a slide show which I was watching some outside person from ISKCON of all the different mutts here in Jagannath Puri and it was like they had like a hundred different photos of different not temples but mutts meaning a place where sadhus come and they live and I was very much struck that Puri first of all has so many different mutts practically every street has two or three mutts in it were places where sadhus would come and live but all these photographs they were showing places which were decrepit, which were broken there were no people staying in any of them they were very lonely places and it reminds me of Agasura in this way and in this point that Jiva Goswami is making in this verse how the gopis are saying something in both an individual and a collective way and in the case of Agasura when the boys went in without Krishna that mutta Agasura in that sense is like a mutt, like a temple and you may have a very very big wonderful temple but as we see in the mutts here in Jagannath Puri if Krishna is not present there if the mutt is just a place for money a place to try to accumulate some prestige or something then what happens the persons who go into that that mutt which looks like a place of worship which Agasura became with Krishna and the boys, if you go in there alone without Krishna then it becomes a place of death and all the boys they died but later on Krishna saved them he brought them back to life and later on that same body of the demon became a playground for them with Krishna so this I’m remembering both Agasura and the temples the mutts here, not the temples but the mutts here in Jagannath Puri how so many of them now that they’re selling them off they’re breaking them there’s one mutt they’re breaking to make some housing complex and things because Krishna wasn’t kept in the centre so this is what I think about here with the word Rakshasa indicating Agasura the gopis again are indicating something both individual and collective that’s an amazing realisation to we had discussed this topic of individual and collective but the way you explained this is beautiful Amarajapu you want to add anything? Absolutely I’m blown away by this explanation of Agasura I’ve heard Agasura Leela from so many Vaishnavas but I have never heard of Agasura Leela like this it’s actually a place of the boys were thinking it’s a place of let’s say upliftment or enjoyment just like a Jiva would think a temple is a place of spiritual upliftment and spiritual relish but if you get there without Krishna as the focus then it will eat you up it’s so beautiful and if Krishna is there with you then your spiritual life can be revived from the death, you can rise from the grave as they say the friends rose from the grave as Krishna entered inside and then that same temple of Agasura’s body became actually a Tirtha, became a place of visiting for so many and service to so many Vaishnavas so wonderful it’s very similar to what happened in the Rasa Leela when the Gopis tried to run in front of Radharani instead of behind her they tried to run in front of her that I don’t need Radha I can try to find Krishna on my own and then even if he is Shamsundar then he displays four hands and cheats us with his Vishnu Murthy form but then those Gopis who run and take shelter of Radharani’s lotus feet and they are Anuradhas Anu means behind and Radha is Radha so if they walk behind Radharani then what happens is even in the form of Vishnu the two hands melt in the form of Shamsundar manifests so those who try to run in front of Radharani that I will try to find Krishna on my own and they will see Krishna as Vishnu there is some transcendental trickery there and then if we take shelter of Radha’s lotus feet then even in the form of Vishnu the form of Krishna can manifest so it’s very interesting about keeping Krishna in the centre and approaching Krishna through Sri Radharani so it was beautiful like that My Guru Maharaj also gives a very interesting realisation and practical example how to understand the past time of Vagasur he mentions that the door in our house that’s actually the open mouth, open gaping mouth of Vagasur so we are living in this house that’s Brindavan but then the door on opening which we leave the house, we exit that is actually the open mouth of Vagasur and what happens is when we leave our house and we go out then automatically there is forgetfulness of Krishna our spiritual consciousness almost dies so what did the boys do? before they entered the mouth of Vagasur they were contemplating whether or not to enter this cave but then one of the boys suggested don’t worry the killer of Putana is there so they all looked at the face of Krishna and said just in case if something happens to us you come and protect us so Srila Guru Maharaj explains that before we leave the house in the morning whether it’s for school, whether it’s for work whether it’s for any other chores we should look at the face of our deity who is Krishna and tell Krishna that I am now going into the mouth of Vagasur which means I am entering the open gaping mouth of Vagasur by opening the door of our house and getting into the Vagasur body of the outside world if I forget you my lord and if my spiritual consciousness gets drained now we look at the face of the deity just like the boys did and say that you come and protect me just like Krishna came, you came and entered the mouth of Vagasur and protected your friends it’s your responsibility now I am just doing what they did they went into the mouth of Vagasur but they looked at your face so I am also going to look at your lotus face offer obeisances and go Srila Guru Maharaj gives such a beautiful wonderful practical analysis of Vagasur so that’s what comes to my mind beautiful glance at Krishna it’s a very beautiful import that we should take direction of Krishna every time we go but this is specifically connecting the past time is wonderful now I have been recently doing this I have been teaching journaling recently and one of the things I do is journaling as a form of praying so when I have this leela classes often I tell the devotees that which part of the leela touches you the most note that down and see how you can incorporate that in your prayer life or how you can pray to Krishna the aspect that touches so we are thinking of many ways in which devotees can do that but this is a beautiful precedent which is already mentioned by Maharaj thank you for sharing that so beautiful Madhantru you want to add anything or move to the next one whatever you prefer yeah I was just thinking this phrase which is interesting and different Acharyas have commented on this in different ways how the Gopis they are mentioning Arishtasura and Vyomasura but those demons haven’t been killed yet so how is it that they are saying that so Balabha he says that the Gopis because they are Sarvajna they know past present and future and they are not making any distinctions between them and I find that kind of a significant point for devotees also sometimes we have this disease this empirical disease we try to understand spirit through the eyes of matter and we try to understand the Bhagavatam in terms of mundane history and geography and it just doesn’t work and it’s going to be so many different headaches and so many different problems with it so this is Balabha Acharya’s explanation Sanatana Goswami he says that that you saved us from Arishta and Vyomasura it hints at some future things but the Gopis are mentioning like a past tense because the Gopis they knew everything that indicating that this has happened in some previous yuga it’s already gone on so this is an interesting point and I think Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur Jiva Goswami speaks about this too that the killing of Vyomasura was done in a previous time because they’d heard about it Vishwanath says it because they’d heard about it from Gargamuni and Bhagiri Rishi therefore they’re mentioning this thing they heard that this is going to happen but Jiva Goswami Sanatana Goswami says that it already happened indicating that this past time it happens again and again in little different ways in different yugas and the Gopis they know that it’s going to be coming so interesting point about this this phrase Bhrishmayatma Jat how wonderful I think something similar comes when Narada Muni also just before Krishna leaves Vrindavan he comes and meets Krishna and he says in the future I’ll see you doing this past time and doing that past time and doing that past time so Narada Muni also knows what’s going to happen in the future of course Narada Muni is more in the role of a sage so we can think of him as a Trikalagya Sarvagya but the Gopis are more in the mood of cowherd girls but they’re still actually exalted devotees more than Narada Muni also actually if we connect this again with the Kaliya Dhamana Lila Sanatana Goswami says some interesting things about this same point making how the past time happens in little different ways in Brihadbhagavatamrita he says that although the Gopis are just meeting Krishna for the first time and that’s one reason why it’s such an important past time, Kaliya Dhamana Lila Krishna brings them onto the hoods of Kaliya and they do a Ras Lila dance and then Sanatana Goswami in his commentary explains that in different Yugas this past time happens in little different ways and he gives them one example he says that sometimes Krishna he puts a ring through Kaliya’s nose and with one hand he with his left hand he rides he’s holding onto this cloth from the wives of Kaliya they gave to him and he’s riding riding Kaliya like a horse in his other hand he’s holding the flute and he goes to visit Kamsa riding on Kaliya which must have been a big surprise for Kamsa so the past time happens in little different ways at different times, sometimes Jiva Goswami mentions in one place that in Ram Lila sometimes Sita’s not kidnapped by Ravana, sometimes she is sometimes she’s not the same past time is happening over and over again but in little different ways at different times so this Brishma Yatma Jat is indicating that the Gopis are seeing something either in the future or in the past, both ways Amazing It also brings us to the point that sometimes when we read a novel it’s all about the excitement of knowing what is going to happen next and sometimes when people watch some movie or read a novel and write a review, they say spoiler alert don’t spoil the story by telling the story to me but so there the fun is actually in knowing and if you know who did the murder or who did this or who did that then the whole fun is spoiled but in Krishna Leela, it’s different it’s not so much knowing it’s like absorbing, relishing the relish comes not just from the plot twists the relish comes from who are the characters involved like you could put it another way sometimes if people love a particular story even in the mundane sense they want to watch it again and again they want to hear it again and again so not to speak of an all attractive lord so that’s why Narada Muni is saying I know you are going to do these pastimes and I am going to look forward to them so similarly the Gopis, they know the pastimes but still the excitement when actually Vyomasur will come, when Mayadana will come they still have that anxiety, what is going to happen now so the knowledge of the future so one understanding is that you have protected us in the past and you will protect us in the future so how can you not protect us now why this inconsistency so the future example is given to highlight the inconsistency of Krishna’s behaviour right now yes yes actually also one Acharya writes that apart from Vrishamayatmajat apart from the Gopis being all knowing apart from the Gopis hearing about the birth chart of Krishna by Bhaguri Rishi and Purnamasi Devi and Gargacharya that he will be killing the foretelling, apart from the Gopis knowing that in previous kalpas Krishna has already done it one Acharya also writes that actually these two demons had already been killed by Krishna in the same yuga as far as Arishtasur and Vyomasur these pastimes were already done before the 31st chapter then the question could be then why Shukadev Goswami describing them after the Ras Panchadhyay he describes them in 34, 35, 36 so the answer given is actually Shukadev Goswami wanted to describe Vyomasur and Arishtasur before the Ras Panchadhyay but what to do when he started describing the Vatsalya Leelas of Krishna in chapter 8, 9, 10, 11 then the heart was pulled towards the friendship pastimes then in 13, 14, 15, 16 he was describing the Sakya Leelas and when he comes to chapter 21 which is Venugit, Purvarag the first meeting of Radha and Krishna then his heart was magnetised towards Madhurya Prem and he almost just he was sliding towards the Ras Panchadhyay so although Arishtasur and Vyomasur had taken place before the Gopi Geet, so the Gopis are actually speaking what they had witnessed first time, you know first hand but Shukadev Goswami did not describe that because of his excitement in speaking about the Ras Panchadhyay and after the Ras Panchadhyay was over then he was like okay now let me just go back and describe Arishtasur and Vyomasur, I don’t want to break the crumb or the chronology so he Vanacharya writes that this actually happened before but then it was Shukadev Goswami’s excitement and enthusiasm in speaking about the pastimes of Krishna with the Gopis that he almost forgot about these two demons and then he speaks about them later but chronologically they happened before, that’s one perspective too. Yeah and that also to some extent I think Jeeva Goswami also talks about this in Sandarbhas or somewhere I’ve read that that also explains later on, see he says especially the 10th Kanto pastimes are coming more out of spontaneous recollection he’s getting controlled by ecstasy and that’s why chronology is left behind and it’s more of what you could say thought associations this pastime reminds you that pastime starts speaking that and we see that especially in the post Vrindavan Leela also in the Dwarka Leela where he describes Rukmini and then immediately he describes Rukmini’s children and then he goes to the other queens of Krishna so in that sense the 10th Kanto is actually an expression of Shukadev Goswami’s ecstasy and that’s why chronology is sometimes neglected or overlooked.
And also the thing is about they’re almost counting so many times you saved us just like Queen Kunti Queen Kunti in her prayers she keeps a track of how many times and in how many ways Krishna saved her she gives a whole list and actually there was no need of giving that list but it gives a very important point for devotees to contemplate this spirit of gratitude it’s very important for us to think back in time and think how many times was I actually saved and protected and helped by the Supreme Lord Shri Krishna I don’t want to use Krishna as a ladder to climb upon and get the fruit the mango fruit of my material desires and then just kick the ladder away but I want to remember every single time I could have had an accident, I could have gone bankrupt, I could have been homeless I could have been attacked I could have been down with a certain disease I could have been into a financial crisis, but thank God Krishna helped me through all of that one doesn’t have to publish a paper on that but at least in one’s personal diary it’s important to think back so I really like it how His Grace Radhesham Prabhu coins it, he says a devotee must have four qualities first quality look back and thank Krishna and the example for that is Kunti look back and thank Krishna that’s the first second, look ahead and trust Krishna and that’s Prahlad Maharaj at every moment he’s looking ahead and trusting the protection of Krishna so first is look back and thank Krishna the example is Queen Kunti look ahead and trust Krishna and the example is Prahlad look within and find Krishna and that is Dhruva and at the same time look around and serve Krishna that is Srila Prabhupada so a devotee must have all four characteristics how to look back in gratitude, how to look ahead in trust, how to look within and find Krishna’s presence and how to look around and serve, so the Gopis are doing that the chronology is being discussed but then they’re looking back and offering their gratitude that Krishna you protected us so many times you protected us from Kaliya Vyala Rakshasad, Vyala means Agasur, it could also mean the snake who tried to swallow Nanda Maharaj, that’s also Vyala, that’s also the snake so you protected us from Kaliya you protected us from Agasur and Rakshasad could be a separate term itself meaning Bakasur and Putana because they were Rakshasas they were human flesh eaters the word Rakshasad could go with Vyala as Agasur being the cannibal or it could mean Agasur and the cannibals and the cannibals could refer to Bakasur and Putana, so we could have Kaliya Agasur Putana Bakasur, all of them in the first line and then in the second line Vyala Rakshasad, Varsha Maruta Varsha means rain and Maruta means thunderstorm and breeze and wind and Vaidyut means thunderbolt and Anala means fire and all four terms put together they represent the Govardhan Leela because in the Govardhan Leela there was very harsh thunderstorm there was rain, there was you know almost like another Trnavarta there with the windstorm fire, thunderbolts so they are putting all of that together as Govardhan Leela or you could even individually take it Anala could mean the two forest fires which could be a separate discussion or it could be Trnavarta as the wind demon so if you take all the terms together that refers to Govardhan Leela and if you take them separately then Varsha and Vaidyut refers to Govardhan Leela but Maruta refers to Trnavarta and Anala refers to the two forest fires so that is also a consideration so Krishna you saved us from Kaliya you saved us from Aghasura you saved us from Bakasura you saved us from Putana, you saved us in the Govardhan Leela, you saved us from Trnavarta you saved us from the two forest fires and then Varsha Mayatmaja Varsha could mean Arishtasura and Mayatmaja is Vyomasura but at the same time the word Atmaja when attached to the first term which is Varsha that could mean so it’s interesting Varsha Mayatmaja Varsha means bull and Mayatmaja means Vyomasura the one who takes the air route but at the same time the word Atmaja when it is attached to Varsha that means Vrishatmaja that is another name for Vatsasura who is the son of a bull so the Gopis are indicating Arishtasura by the word Varsha and Mayatmaja refers to Vyomasura but yet at the same time the word Atmaja when taken with the term Vrisha Vrishatmaja that refers to Vatsasura so they have counted Kaliya, they have counted Aghasura, they have counted Bakasura Putana, Govardhan Leela Trnavarta, the two forest fires, Arishtasura Vatsasura and Vyomasura and then they say Vishvatobhayat and how many more demons can we count you have saved us from all of them but now what’s happening Vrishabhatevayam Rakshitamuhu it’s very very interesting, the father has taken the child in the hand and helped him cross the road so many times, imagine a father, a child doesn’t know to cross the road and the father holds him in his arm and helps him cross the road so many times that the child now develops faith in the father’s protection and that same father takes the child and throws him under the wheels, how does the child feel so the Gopis are saying you have held our hand and taken us across the street of danger so many times and now that when we trust you you have thrown us under the bus and they start off with Kaliya, it’s very interesting because for Kaliya, the situation is very similar to the Gopis the Gopis are devotees, their husbands are not, so Kaliya’s wives, the Nagapatnis are devotees but Kaliya is not and what is Krishna doing, double standards the Nagapatnis are devotees and Kaliya is not a devotee and what’s Krishna doing, going into their house and giving darshan and here the Gopis have left their house to come and see Krishna and Krishna still won’t see them so these are some thoughts so Krishna, why have these double standards it’s beautiful, there are so many aspects of this pastime but how that pastime relates to this, when they are remembering Kaliya, it’s amazing one of the themes, I think the Gopis later also talk about it when is it they list of how Krishna, you have always been a cheater not just in this avatar, as Vamana also you cheated, as Ram also they twist the story a little bit but the idea is that in love they speak like this, so the idea is how can you be so inconsistent how can you abandon us like that yes so it’s interesting, Madan do you want to say something yeah I was just listening and relishing so much so very very nice, all these different points Jiva Goswami also says that the word Brisha, Brisha means bull, we have a Brisha stumba in the temples of Lord Shiva like we have a Garuda stumba in the temples of Vishnu and Krishna and that Vyoma, because later he is going to become a bull that Brisha has mentioned it’s also significant as Prabhuji was saying that all so many different Leelas are mentioned in this verse and it would Anulat means from the fire and there is two fires that Krishna saved the Brijbasis from, the first was in Bandirvan and then the second was Munjavati where Krishna saved the boys first time it was all the Brijbasis together right after Kali, Adama and Alila and the second time was just the boys and again I am reminded of Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s comments about the past times, he says Parasparavidatma dhava bhanirvayankara that this forest fire indicates some Parasparavidatma some quarrel amongst the different Vaishnava Sampradayas Bhaktivinoda comments on it, he says Parasparavidatma Sampradaya Vivada Rupa bhanirvayankara dhava nala Brajadham, Rakshati Bhagavan Bakshana Kuralina Bhaktivinoda Thakur is saying that in this past time it represents division amongst the different Vaishnavas some quarrel amongst different Sampradayas and when we say Sampradaya it always strikes me that devotees sometimes they think all those Ramanuja guys or those Vallabha guys and whatever and we’ve got our party but look in the 13th chapter of the Madhya Lila of Chaitanya Chaitanya Amrita the word Sampradaya is used again and again and again to refer to the different associates of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the followers of Nityananda Prabhu, the followers of Advaita Charya, the followers of this devotee and that devotee and the word Sampradaya is used again and again someone may raise their hand and say excuse me but we’re the Gaudiya Sampradaya but in that chapter we can understand that Sampradaya doesn’t just mean these four different Sampradayas, Sampradaya means the followers of a particular Vaishnava particular person so if we apply that understanding to Bhaktivinoda’s explanation of the forest fires then it means some separation amongst the Vaishnavas and in particular this past time the Gopis are mentioning again it is a collective sense, an individual sense that collectively this forest fire is threatening to separate all of the Vajvasis from you Krishna and individually it’s taking me away from you and the Gopis naturally they want to give pleasure to Krishna in Chaitanya 6th Samhita Bhaktivinoda says this it destroys this conflict Sampradaya quarrelling amongst different Sampradayas this fighting is going on and so Krishna came and he destroyed that and again this is collective and this is individual Krishna in this when with the boys he told them that the boys they saw there’s no way to escape and they all started crying out to Krishna and Balaram and at that time Krishna told them close your eyes and it’s a very interesting point the boys they were thinking oh Krishna knows a mantra mantras are supposed to be secret and so that’s why he’s telling us to close your eyes but there’s another reason because previously Krishna had been eating mati on the bank of the Jamuna he’d been eating dirt and the boys they went and told on Krishna and got him in trouble and so Krishna was thinking to himself that if the boys see me swallowing fire just like they saw me eating dirt before and they told Mother Yashoda maybe they’re going to go and tell Mother Yashoda that I was eating fire and then I’m going to really get in big trouble that was the reason why Krishna told them to close their eyes That’s beautiful So Prabhu I mean we had planned till 12 o’clock it’s midnight and we’re not even completed half of the verse do you want to go for half an hour and complete the verse or should we continue next time Sure Prabhu we can go a few more minutes and then wrap up the verse for this session so it’s interesting the word Rishabh has come at the end we know the word Rishabh like Rishabhdev Rishabh means the best among men so from the Dakshinya perspective from the more submissive rightist camp you know we can say the right wing gopis from their perspective Krishna you are the best among men and you have protected us again and again please protect us even now so that’s the mood however from the leftist camp from the Vammi Bhav the word Rishabh means you were so strong at that time that you could defeat all these demons put together because the word Rishabh means hero the best among men or a hero oh hero oh best among men you were showing off your strength so much by defeating all these above mentioned demons where are you now you’re not just a cowherd you’re also turning out to be a coward so Rishabh there is actually sarcasm that if you were really a hero a true gentleman is not someone he may or may not be able to fight the snakes and the bulls but definitely he will fight for the integrity of women definitely when women need him he will fight because to protect women and children that’s the nature of a gentleman but looking at you hero you were so strong that you were showing off your strength against calves and bulls and snakes and whirlwinds and cranes and the Vyoma the bat all of these different animals but where are you now oh hero oh best among men where are you now when the women are crying and weeping in the middle of the night so you must certainly be Rishabh who can be better more compassionate and so heroic like Krishna when the Gopis need him the most what are we supposed to do hide that’s how a hero behaves that’s what a hero wants to do it’s a total sarcasm from the Vamya camp that Rishabh what kind of a hero are you apart from that the word Rishabh also means a bull just like the word Vrisha means bull the word Rishabh also means a bull and the bull is a significator of Dharma so it’s almost throwing a javelin into the heart of Krishna that you are the bull and bull means Dharma and look now the greatest Adharma is being performed by Dharma personifies he who is bull, bull meaning Dharma and here the greatest Adharma is happening all the Gopis are made to cry homeless on the banks of the Yamuna you certainly must be that same bull who represents Dharma who is protecting Dharma by creating the greatest Adharma here also another perspective is why Krishna is called bull here because there is a phrase in Sanskrit Dharma Rakshati Rakshidaha that Dharma protects those who protect Dharma O Krishna you are Dharma you are the bull, bull means Dharma and we have protected you so many times how do you think all these demons you conquered, you didn’t conquer you are Yashoda Nandan, you are Lala what power do you have to conquer Kaliya and Agasur and Bakkasur and you know holding Giriraj you did not do it Baba, we did it we prayed for you we prayed to Narayan, we prayed to Shaligram Shila to give you power and Dharma Rakshati Rakshidaha the principle is Dharma protects those who protect Dharma and you are the bull, Rishabha and bull means Dharma and we have protected Dharma so many times in the above mentioned examples but alas, alas, alas we protected Dharma but Dharma could not protect us today even once we protected you so many times when Putana came you were 6 days old what power did you have we were praying for you so we protected Dharma you are the bull bull represents Dharma, that’s Rishabha here so we have protected Dharma so many times and Dharma has to protect us and Rakshidaha so instead of saying you protected us so many times the flip story there is a plot twist at the end of the story that we protected you so many times but you can’t protect us even once not even once another perspective to the Rishabha Rishabha means bull look at your double standard in your behaviour double standards when one woman in the form of Bhoomi Devi became a cow then you appeared in this world just to relieve her pain so when one cow cries, Bhoomi Devi the bull is ready to come and protect her but when so many cow like gopis are crying the bull is hiding when Bhoomi Devi became a cow and she needed help then at that time this bull called Krishna he appeared seeing the tears of one cow, Bhoomi Devi now all the cowherd men cowherd women in the form of the gopis who are softer than the cows we are all crying we are all crying but Gopal, the protector of cows Govind, the pleasure giver of the cows and ultimately Dharma, the bull he is hiding wow, look at the best among men he certainly must be the hero look at his double standards so that sarcasm is invoked here from the Vammi Bhava amazing this reading of the Gopi Gita from the two Bhavas Vammi Bhava opens a whole new universe of how everything can be appreciated and relished Madanand Prabhu anything you would like to share I was just appreciating the verse also speaks about how Krishna is like Cupid how he is like Kamadeva and the Gopis they are saying that that you are shooting these arrows at us Jiva Goswami I think in his commentary mentions this and Krishna has different arrows because Krishna you are trying to kill us you are trying to kill us with your glance and that glance means these different five arrows that Cupid has which they are describing in Gita Govinda that when someone becomes agitated when someone is burning their mouths become dry and they become ruined these are the five different bewildered, agitated, burning, drying, ruined these are the five different arrows of Cupid Cupid also he has this bow which is compared his arrows are different types of flowers, the red lotus a choke flower, a mango flower a type of jasmine and a blue flower and there is a line, there is a string on his bow which is a line of bees so the Gopis they are saying that you are shooting these arrows at us from the arrows of Cupid and we are becoming stunned we are burning, we are drying up we are dying in separation from you you are killing us so the Gopis are complaining in this way about Krishna some thought I had maybe this Am I in the room? Sure, sure it’s the thought of the Gopis is almost like they are telling Krishna, it’s almost like a conversation, Krishna think about a gardener someone who likes gardening someone who likes flowers think about a gardener who sows the seed and plants, he takes care of plants, saplings that he has himself taken care of and he protects his own nursery he protects his own plants he protects them with proper you know, let’s say fencing he protects from the weeds he protects them from the goat he protects from everything, so Krishna you are like that, we are your plant and you are our gardener, you have protected us from so many demons you have protected us from Putana you have protected us from Agasu, you have protected us from Kalia, you have protected us in the Govardhan Leela, so we are like plants and you have fenced properly and you have protected us, you have uprooted all the weeds in the form of the demons but then think about the gardener think about the plant, if the plant develops so much love towards the gardener that he always protects me and one fine day, the gardener just goes crazy and he just uproots his own plant and just throws it in the trash, the plant thinks what did you even do, if you had to trash us, if you wanted to reject and uproot us, why did you even protect us in the first place so many times, so we gopis, we are like plants and you are our gardener, you protected us so many times and now alas, alas, alas, when the plant gets so attached to the gardener the gardener just uproots without a second thought, so Krishna responds to that, wait a minute you are saying I uprooted what was my where did I uproot, the gopis said you left us in the rasa leela Krishna said I left because all of you were proud, you were proud, it’s whose fault is that, it’s not my fault, you are blaming it on the gardener that I uprooted the plants of your lives but no I left because you were proud and the gopis have a fantastic response to that … … … … … … the gopis say Krishna, you are saying that you left us because we were proud we want to throw the arrow of this verse at you and what is that, think about the moon, how many faults does the moon have, the moon comes from the churning of the milk ocean and what else came from the churning of the milk ocean, poison so who is the brother of the moon, poison because they appeared from the same womb, the milk ocean … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … Point number three, the moon has spots. However, our love doesn’t have any spots. So they give list of reasons.
They say, look at the moon. It has it. It appears from the same source as poison.
It increases and decreases in size. It has dark spots on its face. And the sun doesn’t like to see the face of the moon.
As soon as the moon is rising, the sun prefers to set. The Gopis are saying these flaws are there with the moon. But learn something from Lord Shiva or Krishna.
Learn something from Lord Shiva. Irrespective of all these flaws with the moon, Lord Shiva still keeps the moon on his head. Isn’t that how saintly devotees should behave and not see the faults in others? If the moon has so many faults and Lord Shiva still keeps it on the head, we don’t have any of these faults.
And you reject us. Are you saying you’re going to reject us? Another question, Krishna. If the sun is disobedient, does the father reject him? Think about us.
We are from the same village as you. We are from the same family of coward men as you. And we are your lovers.
We are ready to reject the whole world and come to you. And you’re still hiding because we were proud. Try to learn something from Lord Shiva.
And keep the moon of our hearts on the top of your head. Do that. And finally, if you want to be consistent in your behaviour, then please be consistent.
What is the consistency? When you attacked Aghasur, what did you do to him? You sent him to his family. What is the family? Putana got liberated. Bakasur got liberated.
And then what did you do to Aghasur? You sent him in the same state of liberation. You sent Aghasur to his family. That is Putana and Bakasur who were already liberated.
So if you really want to behave properly and you want to punish us. You punish the demons. How did you punish the demons? You gave all of them liberation.
You gave Kalia the greatest position of liberation. You give Putana liberation. You give Vatsasur liberation.
For Arishtasur, you made a pond and called it Radhakund. So if you want to punish us, then why don’t you punish us like you punish them? How did you punish them? You sent Aghasur to his family. To Bakasur and Putana who were already liberated.
So if you want to punish us, send us to our family. And who is our family? It’s you. So if you really want to punish us, then you send us to our eternal family.
And that is you. We have left all our family members behind. We don’t know anyone else in this world.
If you want to punish us like the way you punished Aghasur, you sent Aghasur to Bakasur and Putana in the state of liberation. His brother and sister. Please send us also.
Punish us. Yes, please punish us. But punish us in a way that you send us to our family.
And our family is you. So please give us darshan. Please reveal yourself to us.
So then Krishna has nothing else to say. Amazing comparison with the moon. This pride thing comes a much, I think pride comes again in the later verse when they say that you are nija-janas maya-dhamsanas.
We’ll discuss that again at that time also. Madhavendra, you want to add anything? Yeah, I was just thinking about the nice analogy of the gardener and some other Vaishnavas I’d heard. They were commenting that the nature of a gardener is he has attachment and protection, shows protection for the things that he grows.
But sometimes in a garden, there’s certain plants which are some people may say, why are you growing that for that? That plant is poisonous. That plant has so many thorns. That plant has so many faults.
But because the gardener is taking care of it and nourished it, he feels some sympathy for that plant. And although other people are advising him maybe to cut it down and get rid of it, he won’t do it in a similar way. Sometimes a sadhu has people who come to him and they may have different faults, but still he feels sympathy and love for them.
Srila Prabhupada had so many disciples and some of them had problems, but they were very close to his heart because they came and they took shelter of him. So the gopis, in this sense, it was reminding me of this principle of preaching and also of the gardener. I’m also struck, a point comes to my mind when we discuss all this, that someone may be thinking that the gopis, they’re selfish in that they want to see Krishna.
And if we think like that, that’s indicative of our own short consciousness, our own limited consciousness. We should understand that when the gopis look at Krishna, their look at Krishna is to please him. In the, for example, in Caitanya-caritamrita, in Adi-lila, chapter four, it’s described that gopi, Prachanakit chepi, bhashpa, parabhivarshanam, uchar anandad, anandam, arindavilocanam.
It’s a verse also from Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, that Radharani, she was looking at Krishna and some tears came and she couldn’t see Krishna because of those tears, and she became upset and she started criticising. She, anandad means she’s doing ninda, she’s criticising those tears which came to her. So we should understand that when the gopis want to see Krishna, it’s not just that they want to have a good time, like we want to go, sometimes devotees go to Mayapura, it’s like going to the circus.
And while what’s going on tonight, oh, there’s a drama going on, but at the same time there’s this other music programme going on, I’m not sure which I’m going to go to, and then there’s this great pizza parlour. And to draw people into Krishna consciousness, we sometimes present a variety of different pleasures for them. And sometimes, therefore, we think that seeing the deity or seeing Krishna is something for my pleasure.
And we might think that the gopis, they have some selfishness, they want to see Krishna for their own pleasure. But a nice example is given that just when a young girl looks at a young boy, that glance of the young girl gives so much pleasure to the boy. Or it’s opposite, when a young boy is looking at a girl in a loving kind of a lusty kind of way, the girl, she gets some pleasure from that.
So Krishna, he gets pleasure from the glances of the gopis. And the gopis, they know that. So their desire to see Krishna, they want to see him because we want to give you the best pleasure.
And what do you mean, you’re going, you’re staying in Mathura and you have these Mathura ladies there, you have this Kulbha there, they’re not going to give you sufficient pleasure. You should have our glance. Ah, nice verse to support that also.
It’s amazing. Yes, Madhavan. Sorry, I mean, if we want to add something concluding at this stage or any, of course, you have a lot to speak, but about this verse.
There’s a saying that we should end with this tweet. So Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu’s word should be the end. Oh, I will not add or say anything.
And then it gets sweeter with his grace, Chaitanya Charan Prabhu’s summary of the whole discussion. So Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu and myself, we are very eagerly sitting on the edge of our seat. Today I can disappoint you.
It’s just too much for me. All that was discussed in the sense that, see, it’s almost every example was a point in itself. And every explanation of the verse was a point in itself, explanation of each section of the verse was a point in itself.
So it’s going to be, there’s so many points, I don’t know which to summarise and which to leave out in the summary. It was not so much like themes in which you can classify the points. But it’s just one point after another point, each equally relevant.
Here’s some broad overview if I want to take. We discussed this verse and before that, we discussed a part of the previous verse. So suratanatate, beautiful meanings from the Vamya and Dakshina perspective that suratanat can, of course, at one level refer to Krishna as the God of love.
It can also refer to the one who torments those who are absorbed in him. Also refer to one, at you, it is you who begged us to come. Now shulkadasik also, you have two meanings like that, that we came out of love, that’s the normal meaning.
But the only shulka we ask you is your glance, but you’re not giving that to us. So we did that concluded verse. And in this verse, there are many themes we discussed, especially elaborate discussion of vichajalapya yad, among the various demons, Krishna is the demon whom he didn’t, sorry, among the various demons who came, Kalia is the demon whom he didn’t kill.
At the same time, did he abandon Kalia when he told him to go away? Now you discuss how, where Kalia went, there is a discussion of, he is discussing Krishna katha, Garuda may also come there and here. So Kalia, he didn’t kill because in some ways Kalia and Krishna are similar. They are also both have, they are, they are paranours to someone.
Kalia is with Yamuna, is Krishna’s wife. So Krishna didn’t want to destroy his bhava. And then Krishna, that also that Kalia, you went and gave darshan to Kalia’s wives.
By going there, we have come here to you, but you’re not, you’re taking away our darshan of you. How can you be so unfair to us? That is vichajalapya yad. Vyala rakshasat can mean two different words.
It can mean aghasura and various rakshasas. It can be aghasura, the demon also, and aghasura, the cannibal. The beautiful explanation of how, without Krishna’s presence, the playground becomes dangerous.
Aghasura, the playground which became dangerous, the Gopas went inside without him. But when they, after all Aghasura was killed, then that same playground was relishable for him. So for us, if we don’t have Krishna with us, then wherever we go, it can be dangerous.
But with Krishna, even the dangerous places of this world can be beautiful. So the Gopas had a glance at Krishna before they went inside. Similarly, because of that, Krishna’s protection was there for them.
So before we go out into the world, which is like, which is like, sorry, not Aghasura, yeah, Aghasura. So before we get swallowed by it, if we get swallowed, Krishna will come and protect us, rescue us, as he did for his Gopas. Then also this collective and individual was amazing that the Gopis, each of the Gopis is praying herself, but when they are referring to collective, it’s not just other Gopis, it’s all of Vrindavan, other Vajivasis also they’re referring to.
And then he protected us for the future. So is it that they are describing future demons who will come in future? That is one way because they are saintly people. They are Sarvajna, Trikalajna and they know what is going to happen in the future.
That’s one explanation. The other is that Shukadeva Goswami is so ecstatic that he is speaking more based on spontaneous connection and thought association than in chronology. And these two demons, Yamasura and Arishtasura came earlier, but they’re described later in the Bhagavatam.
And that amazing description of Rishamayat Majad, that various meanings associated with the word bull. The bull comes to protect the cows. They’re in danger.
But here we are assuming like cows, but you’re not protecting us. And there are, I think, three, four different other meanings. I don’t want to make this summary infinitely long now.
And then Rishamayat Majad. Sorry, that was about Rishabhatevayam, Rakshitam. So in this way, you protected us in the past, you protect us in the future.
But why are you not protecting us now? So did we actually discuss Varsha Marutad Vajintanilad? Or that we’ll discuss in some other words. Bhagavatam itself is a huge subject to discuss. Yeah, any other major? I know there are many points to discuss.
I mean, the major points if I left out, you want to quickly mention, you can do that. I like Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu’s point about the forest fire. The two forest fires.
That’s my image, yes, true. Yeah, but somehow the best point that I’m not, I hope I never forget the point about Aghasura. I really love that from Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu.
I never, ever, ever heard that. It’s so beautiful. If you try to enter there for your personal gain, and you don’t have Krishna, then your spiritual life will be swallowed.
Such a beautiful point. And I really liked it. It’s very relishable.
We’ve seen that, all of us, in different temples sometimes, if we have devotees who are doing service, but they’re not keeping with Krishna, then what happens? Then they may spiritually die. They go away. And the vivid example I find is here in Jagannath Puri.
There’s so many different mutts. We started as a place to come together and hear and chant, but it became just some place to make money, some place to come together for some other activity, and Krishna wasn’t there, then everything dies. It’s a very, very important lesson for all of us.
The best way we can serve Srila Prabhupada is to keep Krishna in the centre. They have a very nice last comment. Prabhupada went to the GBC meeting once, and this is our favourite saying.
Prabhupada told them, he said, came in there having this big management meeting. Prabhupada told them, this chanting should go on. Instead of meetings, resolutions, dissolutions, revolutions, and no solutions, there should be chanting.
This is Srila Prabhupada’s movement. And we keep Krishna in the centre always, then everything will be okay. We’ll all be protected.
I’m also remembering His Holiness, Maha Vishnu Goswami Maharaj, beloved follower of Srila Prabhupada, disciple of Shivram Swami Maharaj, if I’m not wrong, right, from Rajkot. A very, very great soul. So Maharaj used to say, and I heard this from His Grace Gauranga Prabhu, that Maharaj, when he came to Radha Gopinath Temple many, many years ago, he told all the brahmacharis that all of you should get married.
And then they were all like shocked. Maharaj said, all of you should get married to Srimad Bhagavatam. And then Maharaj said that he told all the brahmacharis, if you don’t read Srimad Bhagavatam, if you don’t read Srila Prabhupada’s books every day, then the walls of the ashram will eat you up.
It was a very interesting phrase. And even Shuddha Kirti Prabhu in his What’s the Difficulty? Very nice book of his pastimes, recollections of Srila Prabhupada. He mentions that one day, Srila Prabhupada, it was about 5.30 in the morning, 1972, Karthik, Brindavan.
And Srila Prabhupada asked Shuddha Kirti Prabhu, he named two of his disciples and he said, where are they? And Shuddha Kirti Prabhu said, they’re sleeping. 5.30 in the morning. So Srila Prabhupada said, go and tell them that I am calling.
So then they like, they woke up. Srila Prabhupada wants to see you. So they just rushed into the room, offered obeisances.
Prabhupada said, what are you doing? Oh, we were sleeping, Prabhupada. And then Prabhupada paused and he said, if you chant your 16 rounds attentively, you wake up early in the morning and take a cold water bath. It’s a very interesting point, cold water bath.
Prabhupada said, if you take a cold water bath, chant your 16 rounds, follow four regulative principles and minimise your eating and sleeping. And then Prabhupada said, if you do this for 12 years, whatever you speak will come out true. Whatever you speak will be perfect.
It was like Vak Siddhi. So it’s again in line with, if we incorporate hearing, chanting, remembering, then we will be spiritually nourished. It’s like the food for the soul.
Then we’ll not be eaten up. That’s the point. Yes, that’s amazing.
So thank you very much. It’s been a wonderful discussion. Thank you, Madhavan.
Thank you, Amarendra. Look forward to continuing next week. Thank you, Chaitanya Charan Prabhu for having us.
I’m grateful to you. Thank you. Thank you, Sripad Madhavananda Prabhu and Krishnakunda Mansaji.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing your affection and such deep, deep realisations.