Head in the sky, feet on the ground – balancing our aspirations with our actions

[Talk to devotee community leaders at Wellington, New Zealand]

Video

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
If a person is embarrassing or making the devotee uncomfortable, then we can do it in an appropriate way.
Maybe we glorify sometimes in front of that devotee. Sometimes we can talk about them at other occasions appropriately. So, thank you for sharing about your motivations and demotivations in Krishna Consciousness.
So I’ll try to address some of the issues of especially about demotivation as well as motivation. The topic which I was planning to speak on broadly was like we have certain aspirations in our Krishna Consciousness. What we want to achieve, we all want to ultimately achieve love for Krishna, become absorbed in Krishna, adhere to Krishna.
But then we also face many practical challenges and we need to deal with those challenges. So head, we can have our head in the sky about how we want to attain love for Krishna. But our feet need to be on the ground so that we can move forward in our spiritual life.
So here you see this diagram. Basically we could say there are different ways in which people come toward Krishna. So some of us might come because of say, many of you said social purposes.
Social means we all want relationships and we find a warm loving relationship, a good community that brings us to Krishna. For some of us it might be that cultural reasons. That means when especially we have, we have a family and then we have children, we want to pass on our culture to our children.
Then especially if you’re in a distant land or something away from our homeland, then how do I pass on the culture? I need a place where the culture is lived, is demonstrated. Or sometimes for ourselves also, if we were brought up in a family where we would regularly go to temples, then when we come here also we want to know, where can I find a temple? So it could be something cultural that can bring us to Krishna. Similarly we could have something intellectual.
Say we are asking questions, we have questions and we get answers and we find it very satisfying and we learn more and more and we find it very stimulating. That gets us to Krishna. And that could be psychological.
Psychological means we are ourselves dealing with our personal issues. It could be sometimes as some of you mentioned, we have anger, we have stress, some people have addictions. We all have certain issues or it could be also depression or anxiety and these psychological issues trouble us and we’re looking for some relief and the practise of Krishna bhakti gives us that relief.
And then, hey, this is really powerful. I want to practise this. So these are now, these four are not necessarily exhaustive.
There could be others also but this is more of a conceptual categorisation or indicative categorisation rather than a exhaustive categorisation. Now the important thing over here is that if you see in the last one I’ve shown, there can be a quake. Generally if an earthquake occurs, say right now, if an earthquake occurs in Christchurch, you will be concerned in the sense that, oh, we may have some friends, some other devotees or relatives, what has happened to them.
But that won’t disturb you immediately. But if the earthquake occurs in some other part of Wellington, that will disturb us much more. If the earthquake occurs right below where we are sitting, that will shake us much more.
So basically, in our life, we can have different challenges come up and how much something disturbs us indicates how much we are centred on that. Like sometimes we are very troubled by something and another person we tell them they’re not at all troubled by it. And then we feel disturbed on why they are not disturbed.
Or we feel disturbed, if they are not disturbed, why am I so disturbed? Sometimes they give me a mismatch. That mismatch happens because all of us, we want to be centred on Krishna. But right now, we are not centred on Krishna, we are on the journey toward Krishna.
And we are centred on something else, by which we are moving toward Krishna. So when whatever we are centred on is shaken, then that shakes our foundation. And that disturbs us very much.
Say for example, if we came primarily because we wanted a community, a sense of belonging, warm relationships. And then, if we find fighting among the devotees, we find quarrelling, we find argumentations. One devotee sarcastically told me that Prabhupada built a house in which the whole world can live, we say.
This is what I feel is Prabhupada built a house in which the whole world can fight. Now sometimes it can appear like that, there’s so many differences, so many quarrels. And then when we see this, we feel, I didn’t come here for this, I didn’t sign up for this, I don’t want to do this.
So now somebody else may say, actually it happens. People are people. Some people get along, some people don’t get along.
People have differences. We don’t live with differences. We are not living in a utopia.
So this will happen. So some people may get very disturbed by it, some people may not get that disturbed by it. And if we are disturbed, that indicates that, that is where our centre is.
The quake has occurred over there. Some people, they feel very attracted to Krishna Consciousness because they got some questions answered. And then if they find some philosophical question for which you can’t get a satisfactory answer, hey, what is this? This doesn’t make sense.
Or if somebody gives an answer that doesn’t seem reasonable, or somebody takes a position that seems not scriptural, how can you say something like this? So if the intellectual is a foundation and then something intellectual is not satisfying it, then it can disturb us a lot. Some people say some controversies, some questions which sometimes have really no decisive or conclusive answers. Some question might be, how did the soul fall from the spiritual world? Where did the soul come from? I call questions like this as intellectual banana peas.
As soon as you step on it, zoom, we just fall. So now we all have to find some satisfactory answer and move on. And some people say, okay, you know, why bother so much about it? But some people just are very bothered by it.
That indicates that is where they are centred. So some of us, we may see our conditionings going away and that gives us a lot of faith. But then the conditionings, psychologically we felt, oh, this has gone, this has gone, this is so powerful.
But when the conditionings come back, we say, what is this? Does this process work? Is it no longer working? What is going on over here? So now, similarly in the community, if we see somebody succumbing to the conditionings, say doing something immoral, somebody falling away, especially somebody very spiritually advanced falls away. Now, this and psychological and social are related, but they are not exactly the same. Social is more in terms of relationships.
Psychological is more in terms of our own inner issues and the inner transformation. Similarly, cultural could be that we expect, say in the culture, certain things are done in a particular way. And things are not done in that way.
And we expect them to be done in a particular way. Say, deities have to be worshipped like this. A temple has to be in this particular direction.
Or people should dress in a particular way. We should talk in a particular way. So, one of my godbrothers, he is also a brahmachari, he went to America for the first time.
And in the Western world, many especially Western women, they don’t like to be addressed as Matajis. So he saw that many people, many Indians also were not addressing each other as Matajis. He says, how can you do that? You should address.
He says, no, no, they feel upset. He says, are you concerned about protecting the culture or pandering to the sentiments of people? Ultimately, we are serving each other. So, if a form of address is alienating people, then you may not use it.
You can have that mood inside your mind. You are just so disturbed by it. And for him, that one, that address not being there, he felt this is deviation from Krishna consciousness.
Okay, it is, but how important is it? So, we’ll have to see it on time, place, circumstances. The point I’m making here is, all of us, we may be disturbed by certain things. Now, it’s paradoxically, the thing that is our centre, that can give us strength.
And that can also cause us weakness. Because if we have come because of social relationships, then when we can spend time with some devotees, devotees are warm and polite, and we feel so enlivened by that. But when that doesn’t come, that’s the time when we feel very disturbed.
So, now, when we are going forward in our Bhakti practise, it is for us to understand where we are centred. And what can we do? Three broad things we can do about it. First is that we need to use that centre, where we are centred, to move toward Krishna and connect with Krishna.
That we can’t be centred only on that. We understand this is a tool. It’s important for me.
But okay, my intellectual answers, they’re very important for me. But ultimately, Krishna is bigger than my intelligence. So, I need to use my intelligence, but I shouldn’t take shelter of my intelligence.
I will take shelter of Krishna. If I am the association of devotees, that’s wonderful. But my shelter, ultimately, should not just be the association of devotees.
Through the association of devotees, it should be Krishna. So, that’s an example I could give for this to say. Now, Draupadi had five husbands.
Her whole family was very dharmic and very devoted. And she was serving with them together. But a particular time came in her life when none of her husbands could help her.
And she was calling them, reproaching them, begging them. But all of them were reduced to helplessness. So, what did she do? She turned toward Krishna.
So, now, she did not just stay stuck over there. How can you not help me? What kind of men are you? What kind of protectors are you? She didn’t get into that zone. Somehow, circumstances can be terrible in life.
And she took shelter of Krishna directly. Now, of course, she did not reject her husbands. Later on in the situation, it became stabilised again.
Then she was serving with them. So, normally, her husbands were her shelter with which she could serve the Lord. But when that shelter was taken away, she did not let that take her away from Krishna.
So, one is, that means, we understand that this is my shelter and I can’t immediately move toward Krishna. But I understand this is my way toward Krishna. So, sometimes what happens? What gives us shelter of Krishna becomes our shelter instead of Krishna.
That means the very thing that is meant to be a shelter can become a competitor. What gives us a shelter of Krishna can become a shelter instead of Krishna. And if that happens, then we need to be very cautious about it.
So, that’s one thing. We could move forwards in that particular area. So that even if I don’t have this, I don’t need to be.
I’m coming here not just for feeling good and nice people. I’ve come here for Krishna. Sometimes I may not feel nice.
Sometimes people may be rude to me. But still, I’ll move toward Krishna. Another thing which we could also do is, we can also try to connect with Krishna through other aspects.
So that our Krishna conscious is not restricted to only one thing. My primary strength would be, say, for me, it might be philosophy. So, intellectual connection may be the primary one.
But then, I can also try to have some relationships. So, maybe it will be like-minded people. But relationships.
So, it’s not just intellectual connections, it’s also social connections. So, we could diversify our connection. Not keep it only one track.
That can also help us to move on. And third thing is that we can see that whenever there is a quake, we can see that as Krishna calling us closer to Him. Earlier I said, yes, first and third are related.
But first is more of our effort. I am here and I need to be centred over here. But you can say Krishna is calling us toward Him.
So, like, this is the mood of that famous verse, Bhagavatam says that, for those whom I give special mercy, Krishna says, I take everything away from them. I take their wealth away from them and their wealth goes away and even their relatives abandon them. And then what can they do? They have no one except me to take shelter.
So, if when a quake occurs in our life, where our foundation is, if we see that, we can see that as an invitation by Krishna or we can see that as a rejection by Krishna. That’s why I have shown this last arrow. You can go away also.
So, the quakes can occur under all four things and the arrows can be both ways. Psychological can take us toward Krishna, but a psychological can take us away from Krishna also. So, the cultural can take us toward Krishna, it can take us away from Krishna also.
So, what we need to do is, see that any disruption, the quake is not meaning that Krishna consciousness doesn’t work and Krishna doesn’t want me, but rather Krishna is calling me across this bridge. All these are bridges to come toward Krishna and Krishna is calling me, don’t make your home on the bridge, cross over the bridge, come to me. So, when we have that mood, then we can maintain our stability.
Now, when I talk about going back to balancing our aspirations with our actions. So, we may have an aspiration to be very loving and caring with everyone, not get angry with anyone, not be judgemental. That’s our aspiration.
So, that’s what I would like to be. That’s good. But I also have to see where I am right now.
And actually, let me take small steps along. At this stage where I am, how can I move toward Krishna? So, basically, we all can sometimes become discouraged in Krishna consciousness and sometimes we can become proud in Krishna consciousness. So, when we become proud, at that time we need to look ahead to see how far we need to go.
So, if we read about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s ecstasy, we read about the Goswamis’ mad love for Krishna. In our time, we see how dedicated some of our spiritual guides are. This is a long way to go.
But conversely, if we feel discouraged, then we can look back and see how far we have come and we can keep moving forward. So, the point is that we all need to move toward, to centre ourselves on Krishna. So, this is a broad framework.
I’ll go into each of these. But are there any questions or comments at this stage? So, how can we balance ourselves? But when that weapon doesn’t work, then if they keep fighting with that weapon, they will get wounded. So, we have to understand that there is no one path to Krishna.
In the sense that there is no one weapon to fight against illusion. No one weapon to move forward in our path toward Krishna. So, we need to have an arsenal of weapons, multiple weapons.
And if one weapon is working and has worked for us, wonderful, keep using that. But when it doesn’t work, don’t make the conclusion that Krishna consciousness doesn’t work. This weapon is not working right now.
But Krishna consciousness and other things are also within it. And let me take shelter of that. Let me move on that way.
Does this answer your question? Anyone else? So, let’s take something more specifically in this. If we consider, say, at a psychological level, can devotees sometimes get depression? Yes? You say, chant Hare Krishna and be happy? Easier said than done. Easier said than done.
What do you do if you feel depressed? Chant Hare Krishna? Chanting. But is that the only solution? Yeah. How to deal with it? Exactly.
Yes. Thank you. You want to say something? Yeah.
Okay. So, the point is here, can a devotee have a psychological trouble? Sometimes a devotee gets depressed. See, at one level, we have to see that the mind is like the body.
That means, can a devotee get a fracture? Can a devotee get malaria or typhoid or something? Yeah, that can happen. Now, similarly, if we consider the mind to be a reality of its own, the mind can also have some trouble. So, of course, we say that Manas Trayateti Mantra, that the mantra will free us from all, deliver us from all troubles of the mind.
Yes, that’s true. And that’s also true ultimately. It’s not necessarily always immediately.
Immediately. Why is that? Because different activities need to be dealt with at different levels. So, if somebody is very troubled by something, something, now, if somebody is depressed, say, if somebody has worked very hard for a particular project or a particular job or a particular relationship, and then it goes down, it’s only human to feel disheartened by that.
That is, we can actually go towards two extremes, where we just make everything so transcendental and think that transcendence alone will immediately solve all problems. And other extreme is to pathologise everything and to think that medicine alone will solve all problems. So, now, if somebody is feeling, for whatever reason, disheartened, depressed, and they chant Hare Krishna, chanting can help.
Certainly, all the chanting that they are doing is purifying. But, if that hurt is too much there, they need to talk with someone. They need to get it addressed at a practical level.
That’s why, Goviyam Akhyati Puchchati, devotees need to have relationships. So, head in the sky would mean that, oh, I’ll just chant and everything will be solved. Yes, it may be, but it may not be.
Krishna Consciousness is not a stereotype that do this and everything will be fixed. It requires us to use our intelligence to be resourceful. And resourceful means find out how best can I deal with the situation.
Prabhupada, when he came to America, or even before he came to America, he was very resourceful in terms of finding out what worked. That means, first he tried to start an organisation, League of Devotees. When that didn’t work, he tried to start back-to-world magazines.
When that didn’t work, he started writing books. He started working with his godbrother, taking care of their mutton, running their magazine. When that didn’t work, then he started writing his own Bhagavatam.
When he got some result by that, but not enough, then he felt, I have to go to America. In America also, he went first to Butler, then he went to New York, then from there he went to the Lobovery, then he came to the Overseas Society. So, he kept trying, whatever works.
So, similarly, just as Prabhupada is resourceful, we need to be resourceful with any issue, including, say, psychological. Now, the other extreme could be, one extreme is to think that everything will be solved only at a transcendental level. That is like having the head completely in the sky and no feet on the ground at all.
But the other extreme is, not only are there feet in the ground, feet are on the ground, our head is also on the ground. That means we don’t see anything transcendental at all. So, nowadays, especially with respect to mental health, it’s become a big industry.
And there is an American psychiatrist, psychologist, they have made a manual of what all mental health diseases are there. And just in 1960s, 1970s, there were probably like 20 or 30 diseases. Now, in 2015, last year, there are 300 mental health diseases.
Now, the people have become more sick now. It’s just that more and more common behaviour has been pathologised. So, for example, if somebody loses a loved one, and if they don’t come back to normal within two weeks, they say, you are suffering from grief disorder, and take this medication.
Now, grieving is a natural process for healing. And some people may take two weeks, some people may take two months. That is just depending on how close the person was, how much we are feeling the loss, what other social support systems are there for us.
So, to reduce everything to a material solution alone, that is to not only have the feet on the ground, but also have the head on the ground, head in the ground itself. So, we need to understand that Krishna Consciousness, head in the sky means we understand that Krishna Consciousness is the solution. And we don’t neglect the transcendental thinking that only practical things have to be done.
But feet on the ground means Krishna Consciousness is the ultimate solution. But let’s do something practically also. Say, two devotees have had some conflict, and one devotee comes feeling very hurt.
Oh, that devotee spoke like this. And if you chant Hare Krishna, everything will be alright. Well, okay, chant Hare Krishna is good.
But if I’m feeling hurt, I need to feel understood. I need to feel pacified. My side of the story has to be heard and be addressed appropriately.
But, say, if somebody focusses only if we have a community and our entire energy is focused on, say, having mediation and conflict resolution, and even if we have classes also, they are also about conflict resolution only. If we only talk about, say, self-help with no spirituality, then our head is also on the ground and our feet also on the ground. Then we might walk along nicely over here, but we won’t get anywhere.
We won’t arise in Krishna Consciousness. So that’s how we need to aspire for the transcendental, but we also need to act at the practical level. And doing that, seeking that balance is challenging, but it is essential.
Prabhupada, he had a vision that he will have temples all over the world. But in the early days, Prabhupada would spend lots of time with people who were maybe half-stoned and Prabhupada was talking philosophy and they wouldn’t understand much also what Prabhupada was speaking. So Prabhupada worked with what he had.
He had a big vision in terms of what he wants to do, but in terms of resources, he worked with what he had. So that balance between working with what we have, also working for what is our dream, that is something which each of us needs to arrive at that balance. So, like I said about the psychological, that if somebody is very disturbed, then a practical measure has to be done.
If two devotees have two strong conflicts, then maybe it is best that for some time you keep them a little separate. A very basic level of cooperation is co-operation. You operate here, I’ll operate here.
That may not be the best, but if that’s what is required, that’s what is required. So, in fact, that’s how Prabhupada actually expanded many centres. If two devotees would have conflicts, Prabhupada would say that, and they were both big leaders, so Prabhupada would say, you go here and you start a centre, you go here and start another centre and you get a third person come over there.
So, Prabhupada expanded things quite resourcefully that way. Of course, that is not the ultimate solution, but the point is that we have to look at a practical solution. Prabhupada did not say, if two devotees are having conflict, both of you be thrown out, the peace will be here and everything will be solved.
He would not speak like that at that time. That’s an important principle to follow, but it may not be immediately practical at that time. So, in general, say, if we are looking for only, we are having a practical problem, so our feet are on the ground and our eyes are also on the ground right now, and if at that time somebody gives only a philosophical solution, then it is extremely frustrating.
It is extremely frustrating. Prasadam has not been cooked till now and the programme is getting over. If everybody does kirtan, Krishna will satisfy them from within the earth.
Well, that is not going to happen. So, we need to take care of things at a practical level only. But sometimes, if at a practical level we are working and things are not working, then at that time, I did my best, but it is not working, Krishna, I surrender to you.
So, I surrender to you, please help me. So, we need to entrust to Krishna also. Sometimes we say, if we work, does our work right now produce a result or is it our past karma that produces the result? Say, we may want to give classes and we want to speak nicely in public.
So, is it our practise and our preparation that helps us to deliver nicely? Or is it by our past karma, we have speaking ability, we have intellectual ability, we have some charisma by which we influence others. So, the way to understand this is that work as if everything depends on you and pray as if everything depends on Krishna. When we are working, work as if everything depends on you.
You have to work wholeheartedly. And when we are praying, pray as if everything depends on Krishna. But sometimes we do the opposite.
We work as if nothing depends on us. And then we pray as if nothing, no, basically what we do is, we don’t do our part at all. And praying is, I think I mentioned this last time how when I learned public speaking, I was 20 years ago, as a devotee, I was given a 10 point guidelines, how to speak in public for Krishna service.
The 10th point was, depend on Krishna. But in bracket, depend on Krishna, but only after you have prepared. If I don’t prepare and say I am dependent on Krishna, that is not dependence, that is irresponsibility.
So, our feet on the ground means, we understand I need to play my part. I need to play my part wholeheartedly. But head in the sky means we understand that Krishna also has his part over there.
So, if we have this balanced understanding, then we can actually navigate whatever challenges we might face in our spiritual life. Any questions or comments till now? Yes, please. How do we take it if something goes wrong? Is it because of a past karma? We all need to be intelligent to place things in the most constructive context.
Say for example, right now I am speaking. And I can see, if I see all of you squinting, trying, struggling to hear, then I could say that maybe the sound system is not working. Isn’t it? I start thinking, maybe it is because of my past karma, people are not hearing me.
Well, it is not past karma, it is just my present karma, raise the volume over there. That’s all that is required. So, if I find that, okay, I am speaking but you are not able to hear me, I fix the sound system, but still say you are not able to hear me.
So, one frame when I can see a particular thing is not happening the way I want. Now, why is it not happening the way I want? I could put in one frame of references that, oh, sound system is not working. If the sound system is working and still you are not able to hear, then maybe I could say that, maybe I am not speaking loud enough.
So, I could put the frame of reference can centre on the instrument, frame of reference can centre on me, or if I see that others are able to hear but you are not able to hear. Maybe the acoustics of this room is not so good, that’s why you are not able to hear. So, you could put in the frame of reference of the room, the setting we are in.
Or if acoustics are also good, there is a person sitting next to you who is able to hear but you are not able to hear. Then maybe it needs to be centred on you. Maybe say, the person who is not able to hear, they have some hearing deficiency, they need to come ahead or something like that.
So, basically, whenever, now we do it subconsciously almost, whenever something is happening, we place it in the most, it’s not a right or wrong, it’s the most constructive frame of reference. So, if somebody is not understanding what I am saying, now maybe it is because they are too new, maybe it is because I am speaking in a very abstract way, or maybe it is because they are not able to hear me. It could be many different reasons.
So, generally, we start from the smallest frame of reference and then move towards upward, upward, upward, upward. The smallest means, say, if you are not able to hear me, I wouldn’t think necessarily that, say, a person who is not able to hear me is having a hearing deficiency. That is a possibility, but first I will say that the sound system is not working.
So, we need to understand the principle of karma is not meant to reject the cause-effect connection in this world. It is meant to extend the cause-effect connection. Extend the cause-effect connection means that if within the immediate cause-effect connection, we can’t find an explanation.
Say, for example, we prepared diligently and still, say, people didn’t come for the programme or people didn’t appreciate or people didn’t commit or whatever. Then at that time, we could say that, of course, we can always say that we can always prepare better, no doubt about it. But in the situation that I am in, this was the optimal I did.
So, then if within the immediate frame of reference, no explanation is found, then we can extend the frame of reference further. And past life karma is one such extended frame of reference. It doesn’t have to be the only frame of reference, but it doesn’t have to be, it shouldn’t be also a frame of reference that we never consider.
Say, on a rainy night like this, if somebody eats 10 ice creams, and then the next morning they wake up, ice cream! But their throat is horrible now. Now, if their throat is horrible, is that because of past karma? Yeah, past night’s karma, isn’t it? So, if the immediate cause-effect connection explains, then there’s no need to go to the remote cause-effect connection. So, we have to have that, you could say that intellectual flexibility, intellectual resourcefulness to know which frame of reference I should put this in.
So, if the same thing is happening with me, say, if I try to form a relationship with someone, and it doesn’t work. It could be because the other person’s problem is there, it could be my problem is there, it could be just that the two of us are too incompatible, whatever. Now, if it happens once, we could look for some explanation, but it happens twice, if it happens thrice, and then it’s quite likely that there’s something maybe I am doing which is alienating people.
If every person’s actions, every relationship issue that I have, if I start blaming it on the other person, it could be the other person, or it could be that, as I said, if two people are very incompatible, they have to work together. You could say it’s somehow maybe past karma because of which they are working together. But, if I am doing something which is alienating people, and I say maybe it’s my past karma which is happening, well, no, then how will you fix it? So, we look for, at various levels, explanations, and see which is the most constructive.
Does that make sense? Thank you. Any other questions about this, or any other? Yes, go on. I am just still thinking about that quake and energy that you were giving.
So, if there is some problem, so quake is like a problem, and then creating some agitation, right? So, if some agitation is coming, that means, is it always that you were taking shelter of something, instead of Krishna, and now it is not going well, that’s why you are upset? Okay, do you want to elaborate on that? Can you give an example or something like that? Okay, let me understand and answer whatever I can. So, is it always because if you are feeling disturbed that you took shelter of that thing instead of Krishna, that’s why you are disturbed? Well, not always, but I would say the magnitude of the agitation indicates how centred we are on. Say, for example, if some preacher’s sense of success comes from how many people I brought to Krishna, and then if people stop coming, or some people start going away.
Now, of course, it’s going to disturb us, and we should be disturbed also if somebody is going away from Krishna, but how much we get disturbed? Somebody might just say, okay, you know, we tried, what happens, people have their free will, sometimes people have past conditions coming up. So, if we are very disturbed by that, then that indicates that our Krishna consciousness is significantly centred on that. So, it is not necessarily the only cause, and we definitely need to look at other explanations also, like I said, the appropriate frame of reference.
So, sometimes it may well be that if we are having a difficult time with a particular devotee, sometimes some people are difficult in general. So, it’s not just we alone, everybody has difficulty with them, we also have difficulty with them. So, it’s not that if we have difficulty in meeting with that particular person, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we are centred on Krishna.
So, but broadly speaking, if something, it’s not, okay, there are three different things. One is we having trouble, and we’re trying to fix the trouble in whatever way we can. The second is that we have trouble that almost paralyses us.
Just how can this happen? Sometimes some people say, how can a devotee do like this? So, that means we reduce the test of devotion to the behaviour of this particular devotee. That means what has happened? We have become too centred on that. So, it can be fixed at a practical level, it should be, but if we are very disturbed by it, it indicates we were significantly centred on it.
That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s unhealthy. It’s just that maybe we are too invested on it. Because when we are doing a particular service, it’s natural to be invested in that service.
If, say, somebody’s service is to build a temple, or somebody is a pujari in the temple, and their main service is deity worship. And if, say, the deity worship is not going properly, the food is not going properly, the dressing is not proper, the aarti is not being done on time, they should be more concerned about it than other people. That’s not their service.
But they should be more concerned because they have to fix it. But if they become too agitated by it, then they start thinking that, you know, this devotee community, these devotees don’t come for deity worship, the temple leadership doesn’t support deity worship, what is the use of all this? They are all hypocrites. They say they love Krishna, but they don’t love Krishna at all.
They don’t care for Krishna’s worship. In English there is a word, hyperventilate. Hyperventilate means just an excessive emotional reaction.
So if that is happening, then we can say that it’s quite likely that I am too centred on Krishna, too centred on that particular thing. Thank you, Prabhu. But in that situation, that devotee’s perspective, is he not being centred on Krishna because he was centred on that Krishna’s service? So what would you say in that particular example, where was that devotee centred on? Whatever we are centred on, it’s like one of the differences between ruchi, asakti, bhava and prema.
So one of the differences between ruchi and asakti is that in ruchi we get taste in the service. In asakti we have attachment to the object of service. So it’s a subtle difference.
I just like to do this. I just like to worship Krishna. I like to do deity worship.
That’s ruchi. But asakti is, it’s not the deity worship I like, I love Krishna. So it’s not just attachment to service, but attachment to the object of service.
That’s the difference. So sometimes taste in service is also a very advanced stage. And if somebody is disturbed because something is going wrong, we don’t have to say that means you are centred on something and not centred on Krishna.
Actually, some people may not even feel disturbed if something goes wrong. Well, that is also not a very good thing. Like one devotee, I remember, he had gone for food distribution and he somehow lost all the money that he had got from food distribution.
And then he came and told, he was a brahmachari, and he came and told the brahmachari leader that actually I lost all the money. Lost all the money? The leader was very disturbed. He says, don’t get disturbed.
Krishna has told us to stay equi-poised with happiness and loss. Now, is he really at that level or is he simply rationalising his irresponsibility? So it’s only when we are concerned about something, when we are invested in something that we get disturbed. That is not working.
But if something is, it disturbs us too much, so much so that we become disheartened about Krishna consciousness itself, then it’s a challenge. So with respect to that devotee who is a pujari, certainly they need to do what it takes to try to fix the standards of deity worship. But they cannot let that alone stop them from practising Krishna consciousness itself.
Does this make sense? Anything else? So I’ll make two more points and then we can have any further questions. Is this framework clear or should I give some other examples of some other pathways and how disturbances can occur in that way? Then it can become a little clearer. If quakes occur simultaneously everywhere, what do we do? Because ultimately Krishna is the only shelter where no quake can touch.
That’s where we need to go. It’s quite scary to think that way. Krishna says that in the Bhagavad Gita it is said in 6.22.23 that when we are situated in Him, absorbed in Him, even if great distress comes, one is not disturbed by that.
So we’ll have to come more and more toward that at that time. So as I mentioned, my introduction to Krishna consciousness was primarily through intellectual path. I remember the first time I travelled with one of my private spiritual guides to Mumbai.
I was introduced in Pune. It was a 4-5 hour train ride. So I told him, can I ask some questions? He said, sure.
And then I had like 11 full-scape pages from top to bottom filled with questions. So he said, this will require many Mumbai Pura trips to answer. But still, from different devotees I did get answers to my questions.
And after about 7-10 years in Krishna consciousness, I was a resource, I was answering many questions of other people. But then I had some questions which I just did not get any satisfactory answers. For example, I read in the Nilamrit, Prabhupada says in one place that by 2000 the earth will be so polluted that nobody will be able to stay on the surface of the earth.
Everybody will have to live underground like rats. Now when I read this, how do I understand this? And then I asked a senior devotee this question, and that devotee answered me saying that, he quoted this verse, those who have implicit faith in Guru and Krishna, for them all questions are answered. And he said, the fact that you have questions like this means that you don’t have faith.
I felt so angry and betrayed by that answer. I felt angry because not only that he is not answering the question, but that answer I felt was intellectual cowardice masquerading as faith. You don’t have the guts to admit that you don’t know the answer to the question and you are blaming me for not having faith.
So I said, do you really expect me to believe? I can see people all around. People are living on the earth. Nobody is living under the earth.
So he says, oh, we don’t accept Pratyaksha Pramana. Really? Pratyaksha Pramana is seeing with our eyes. We don’t believe what we see.
We believe what Shastra says. Oh, really? I said, you know, if you see somebody doesn’t come for Mangal Aarti on time, and then they come late, he says, why did you wake up late? I said, don’t believe in Pratyaksha Pramana. If somebody doesn’t come for a programme, he asks, why did you come for the programme? Don’t trust your eyes so much.
I was there. You don’t function like that. So like that, it is not just one, but there are many questions like that, which I had.
And basically, the devotee, same devotee who had answered many of my questions, that devotee started saying, you have so many questions. He says, you are riddled with doubts. He quoted Bhagavad Gita.
नायं लोकोस्ति न परो न सुखं समशे आत्मणा। A doubting soul has no happiness in this world or the next world. Then a couple of days later, he came and told me, I think you have so many doubts. Stop preaching.
What faith can you give to people if you have so many doubts? One by one, just a big attack on me. And then at that time, finally, there was a devotee scholar who had come from America to Mumbai. So I went to meet him and I had been in touch with him.
I admired him. So I asked him some questions. And then he gave me an answer, which was so simple, but I had never heard that conception before till now.
He said that Prabhupada is an Acharya, but it doesn’t mean that Prabhupada lived throughout his life with his eyes closed and ears closed. Prabhupada learned everything only from Shastra. Prabhupada grew up in his life.
Prabhupada learned from various sources. So then we did some research together and we found that Prabhupada had made this statement in 1974 or 1975. And we went to Prabhupada’s room conversations.
Actually, he went through and he sent me the link. Just maybe two days before Prabhupada speaks this, that nobody will be there on the surface, nobody will walk on the surface. Some devotee had presented to Prabhupada in a morning walk this report by some green society.
And they were giving a prediction that the pollution is growing so much that nobody will be able to live on the surface of the earth. And that was more like an alarmist. Those who want to create alarms.
Some people say that, oh, within a few decades, all the coastal cities on the earth will be under the water because of global warming. Now, of course, global warming has been significantly exposed to be an exaggerated thing. So now they have changed the word.
It’s not global warming, they call it climate change. And climate change is a problem, but how big a problem it is, it’s quite likely to be exaggerated. But anyway, the point here was that when Prabhupada gave this prediction, Prabhupada was not putting Shastra.
So, if I have a question about it, that is not my doubting Shastra, that is not my doubting Prabhupada. It’s a common sense question it was. So basically, when, so now some devotees say, okay, Prabhupada said, when I talk with some other devotees, they say, what difference does it make? Prabhupada said that, but Prabhupada said so many things, why do you bother so much about this thing? But I was very bothered by it.
So because my primary centre was the intellectual, and I didn’t get answers for that, I became very disturbed. So when I found some like-minded association, then that devotee also not only answered this question, but he introduced me to a group of devotee scholars. And these devotee scholars have a forum where we discuss various issues.
And I realised that, then I came to know that devotees were far more senior to me, they also have many questions, and they also don’t have any pat answers to those questions. They’re also working out how best to understand this, how best to explain this, how best to find an answer to this. So there are various levels of knowledge, and there are various levels of needs for knowledge.
So we present knowledge according to what is the need of the audience. So I felt that I had a need at this level, and somebody needed to address that. So basically, when I found that association of like-minded intellectual devotees, that’s where I got some relief.
And that again brought some stability. So when that quake occurred, it was disturbing, but then, because I found association which helped me to move forward, then I was able to navigate that quake. Does that answer your question? Who was that one person in this convent, who was your very intellectual mind, that satisfied your intellectual needs? It’s not a fixed, it may be fixed in Krishna convent in the rest of your life.
But he’s more, I would say, again, no disrespect to him, he’s more of a preacher than a thinker. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t think, but his thinking is primarily to answer questions of people. See for some people, philosophy is a tool for preaching.
And that’s not a wrong attitude, because we are a preaching movement. But for some people, philosophy is a resource for thinking deeply about life’s questions. And the two are very different approaches.
See, not everybody who preaches philosophy can be called a philosopher. All of us in our movement, we do share philosophy. But some people are very philosophically minded.
So, I found many devotees like that. Tamal Krishna Maharaj was very deeply philosophical. Rudhayan Maharaj is also quite philosophical.
Then, like many devotees like that, I would say. One of my Godbrothers, Shyamananda Prabhu, he’s one of the temple presidents of Radha Gopinath temple. He is brilliant, he’s also very philosophical.
Then, Radhika Ramana Prabhu, Ravi Gupta, he’s a second generation devotee. He’s also very philosophical. It varies.
I would say that now, more or less, I could say that I have realised that I have devotees who are experts in particular fields. So, if I want to know about Gaudiya Vaishnavism, I know I should ask this devotee. If I want to know about science and spirituality, I’ll ask this devotee.
If there are some, say, institutional controversies, then I ask this devotee. If there are something specifically about the Vedic literature, not Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but Vedic literature, I’ll ask some other devotee. So, I have sort of created resources like that.
If I have questions on the epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata, I ask a particular devotee. So, I think, as we grow, our needs also become a little more specific and it’s not possible to have one devotee to fulfil those needs. So, then there can be different devotees.
It’s not a limitation of that devotee. It’s more of, I would say, when the needs are specific, it’s just not possible for one human being to know everything. In fact, when I told this to Devamath Maharaj, he had said that he had a plan for a long time and somehow it’s not working out.
He said, we should have one website, which is like a pan-ISKCON website, where there’ll be one moderator and we’ll have specialists on various fields. And anybody from any part of ISKCON can ask a question on that website and that moderator will refer it to the particular expert preacher and they’ll give the answer. He said that if we can actually do that, it can become an enormous resource for our devotee preachers.
Who has any question? Sometimes we ask somebody and they also don’t know the answer. Sometimes some devotees give an answer. See, there are some answers which are meant to give an explanation and there are some answers which are meant to end the discussion.
So, that kind of answer comes. We are not satisfied, but we also don’t feel very inspired to further ask any questions. Some will be in future that will work out, but that’s broadly I would say.
Any other questions? So, I’ll just speak one point now. In our practise of bhakti, for us, we need to know our strengths and our weaknesses. At one level I said that strength itself can be a weakness, but broadly speaking, if we know that certain things are our weaknesses, then we need to guard ourselves.
And if something is our strength, we need to develop that. And in many ways, sharing Krishna Bhakti with others is about understanding them at an individual level. Say, if somebody is here and Krishna is here, now we could say preaching means telling them about Krishna conscious philosophy, preaching means giving them some seva, preaching means monitoring them.
All this is true. But if you want to go into more specifics, preaching means we understand what are the obstacles that are there in between them and Krishna. And we try to remove those obstacles.
Say, one simple obstacle could be that if you have devotees coming for a programme and devotees have small children, then they may want to hear the class, but if the small children are restless, then we can’t expect them to neglect the children and hear the class. If that is what is distracting them, then we create a resource when we have a separate children’s programme. So like that, we can look at whenever we are trying to help anyone else come closer to Krishna, it’s not just about giving them some books or inviting them for some programmes, all that is important, but specifically looking at what will get this person towards Krishna and what will get in the way of this person’s coming towards Krishna.
So if we can understand this, especially for people whom we are trying to be responsible for or cultivate, then we make maybe a consciousness like that. This is what inspires this devotee. That’s why I asked you in the beginning what motivates and what demotivates.
So once we understand this, then we can address that. Otherwise, sometimes we have like, sometimes for somebody who is preaching is like playing a one track recorded script. As soon as you encounter someone, just start speaking this, start speaking that, start speaking that.
That’s also good, we are at least sharing something about Krishna. But to help people move towards Krishna, we have to look at their individual challenges and help them deal with those challenges. Look at their individual opportunities and help them tap those individual opportunities.
And that’s what Prabhupada did. Wherever he went, Prabhupada was very personal and individual. If a particular devotee had a particular inspiration, Prabhupada would fan that inspiration and encourage them to move towards Krishna.
And to the extent we become this way personal. Personal doesn’t just mean spending a lot of time with people. Personal doesn’t just mean hearing them.
Actually hearing to understand them. Sometimes when we are with people, we find some people very boring. This person just keeps talking, keeps talking or keeps doing the same thing again and again.
It could be, but it’s quite often that people who are interested find people interesting. People who are boring find people boring. What that means is if actually we hear to try to understand people.
Of course, there are some people who just keep talking a lot of things and keep talking a lot and keep talking the same thing again and again. So it’s natural to get bored. But if somebody is speaking the same thing again and again, that probably means that they have a particular need which is not getting addressed.
And that’s why they’re speaking it. So if we try to become interested and understand each other, then we can help each other in our shared devotional journey toward Krishna. I’ll summarise.
I spoke on this theme of centering our life on Krishna and I talked about how all of us have certain things which motivate us and some things which demotivate us. We classified them into these broad four categories which are indicative, not exhaustive. That we might come to Krishna because of social, intellectual, psychological or cultural reasons.
And sometimes the very thing that brings us to Krishna which is our attraction, our strength, a quake can occur under that. And when the quake occurs, at that time we need to protect ourselves. How do we do that? One is we move toward Krishna from there.
Another is we try to connect with Krishna in some other way. And third is that we see the quake not as a rejection of Krishna Consciousness or evidence that Krishna Consciousness doesn’t work, but as an invitation to go further toward Krishna. And for each one of us, we can’t reduce our Krishna Consciousness to one track or one path alone.
We need multiple paths. Like in a war, one weapon might be most effective, but we can’t reduce the war to fighting with only one weapon. We need to also have an arsenal of weapons from which we can choose.
And I give examples of how in the social level, if somebody comes because devotees are so caring, and then they find that devotees are not behaving properly, devotees are rude or devotees are insensitive, then that may drive us away. We definitely want to have a good culture of caring for each other. But the important thing is we are coming not just for the care, that we might get many other places also, but coming for Krishna.
So Draupadi, so that which is a shelter, that which can shelter us on our way to Krishna can also come in our way to Krishna. So when that happens, we need to put it aside. So Draupadi was serving with her husband.
When her husband couldn’t help, she took shelter of Krishna directly. Then I give examples of how psychologically we shouldn’t, we need to have our head in the sky, but feet on the ground. So head in the sky means that we need to keep Krishna in mind and Krishna as our focus and purpose.
But feet on the ground means if somebody has a particular issue, practical solutions also have to be given. If somebody is feeling depressed, we can just chant Hare Krishna, everything will get rectified. That may not work for them.
At the same time, if you only focus, say, if somebody is in conflict, only on conflict resolution, and don’t talk about the development of our Krishna consciousness, then our feet are on the ground and our head is also on the ground. So we need to have a balance of both. Where we are aspiring to grow spiritually, at the same time we are acting practically also to deal with practical issues.
So whenever problems are there, we need to place them in the appropriate context, most constructive context by which we can move forward.