Hearing Krishna’s pastimes with the gopis is said to remove lust, but it often induce lust. How do we understand

Is it that we have to come to the stage of ruchi to hear these pastimes?

Transcript

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question Prabhupada has said that the Bhagavatam also says that by hearing Krishna’s pastimes with the gopis, we can become free from lust, but then Prabhupada also says in the letter that if one is getting agitated, one should not hear his pastimes, and he also says that these pastimes have to be heard by advanced devotees, so how do we reconcile this what is the precise qualification for hearing Krishna’s pastimes with the gopis? answer there is the important point that anukulyasya samyakalpa prakriti so in the six items of surrender the remaining four are dispositions how you feel that Krishna is the protector Krishna is the maintainer of feeling oneself completely incapable without Krishna but anukulyasya samyakalpa and prakriti are directly actions so it is surrender essentially these are the six elements of surrender and surrender essentially means choosing actions that help us to go closer towards Krishna and putting aside the actions that take us away from him so this is the underlying principle that all of us have to use when we do any devotional activities so for example it is said that we should associate with devotees but it may happen that certain devotees have some disposition or some nature by which we start covering offences in their association or they are always criticising others and that disturbs our faith then we are anukulyasya samyakalpa and this association is not favourable for me I will choose association that is favourable for me same applies to reading and hearing also so just as there are so many devotee speakers whose classes we can hear we will choose those devotees classes or we will choose those books which are anukul for us so same with respect to Krishna’s past times also that if that helps us to increase our attraction to Krishna then we hear those past times and if we find that while hearing those past times somehow our lust is getting triggered then we understand that we need some more philosophical conviction and purification before we can further hear those past times so now some devotees say that we have to go to this particular stage or that particular stage before we can hear those past times but this takes things into a very difficult to decide subjectural, how do I know if somebody is a dalya, nishtha or vishal or puchi or for that matter I can broadly understand that I am advancing or whether I am not advancing but understanding whether I am at a particular level and then what do I do after that that I have to get others to agree also that yes I am at this level it is very complicated so we consider, we understand the levels of bhakti as general direction pointers not really very specific progress markers this is the direction which I should be going and if I keep going in this direction I will progress but if we try to make it as a specific progress marker that I am at this level and this level then it can lead to unnecessarily superior or inferior attitude depending on who we think is where and where I am and similarly we apply that to advanced devotees that can lead to a sentimental or offensive attitude so rather than getting into that zone we focus on what is anukul to us and what is pratikul to us so for this we have to be honest with ourselves if we find that by hearing Krishna’s pastimes we are finding material lust getting triggered then it is best to avoid so of course Prahupada has given us Krishna where he makes certain kind of pastimes accessible now what he does is he gives philosophy properly so that the chances of misunderstanding are less but still misunderstandings can happen because certain descriptions can trigger in our mind certain past associations which we have had associated with those descriptions and then trigger our desires so in general we focus on going systematically through the basic books and once we have a clear understanding that Krishna’s pastimes and the gopis are the transcendental reality and they are the substance and whatever we see in this world is a reflection and we want to move from the reflection to the reality once we have that conviction then we can see whether hearing about the reality is it decreasing our attraction to the reflection or increasing our attraction so to the extent it decreases our attraction that is somewhat good but if it is reminding us of the reflection if our lust gets triggered or the hell goes past then it is best to keep that for a later stage and of course we need to develop a personal relationship with Krishna and we should hear Krishna’s pastimes in general so for example the other type of pastimes we can read it here and we can that way develop a more personal understanding of Krishna and gradually as our relationship with Krishna develops more and more then we will be able to see Krishna not just as a male enjoying with a female but as God performing a pastime of transcendental love highest love of his devotees and then we can relish that kind of pastimes