Hinduism and ISKCON attacked in Bangladesh – Four levels of analysis-Detailed class with Q&A

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
so I am happy to be here with all of you today although the topic we are discussing is not particularly a happy topic today So I was told that we can discuss today on the topic of the Bangladesh situation and how there’s a threat to Hinduism and ISKCON and what ISKCON has done. So I’ll give a quick introduction of the issue and then I’ll talk about the issue at four different levels. How many of you are aware of what is happening in Bangladesh? Some of you are aware.
So I’ll talk about this based on the Bhagavad Gita 1822 which talks about knowledge in the mode of ignorance. I’ll quickly explain the verse and we’ll recite it once before we move on. So yathu kruchnavad ekasmin, kruchnavad is everything, ekasmin is one thing.
When we take one thing and make it into everything, yathu kruchnavad ekasmin, karye, karye is when we have such a vision, then the action that we do, karye saktam ahaitukam, saktam means we become attached, infatuated with just one thing and ahaitukam means in this context it is not unmotivated devotional service, here ahaitukam means that without considering cause and effect properly, one does not see okay one thing is only this is the cause and this is what is the solution and one becomes attached to one kind of action, karye saktam ahaitukam, karye saktam ahaitukam, atattvaartham, so tattvaartham is proper understanding of the truth, one does not have a holistic understanding of the truth and alpamcha, one’s action one becomes very meagre, one’s conception is very focused on a very small aspect of reality, alpam meagre, where does the word alpa come in the Bhagavad Gita elsewhere, swalpam apidharmasya, one more, alpamedhasa, yeah good, so small, meagre, now swalpam there alpa is used in more positive sense, even a small thing is of great value, alpamedhasa is used as not very much, not very intimate, less intimate, so alpam here is meagre, atattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattvaarthavad alpamcha, that is said to be udhaarutham, is described as tamas, now Krishna has not specifically used the word buddhi over here but the previous verses indicate that he is talking about buddhi in sattva, rajas and tamas, so he says the characteristic of buddhi in tamas is that we take one thing to be everything, we fixate on one aspect of reality to the exclusion of everything else, so let’s recite this together, it’s not a difficult verse, not responsive but let’s do it together, two more times, yad dukhruchnavadeh grasmin, karye sattum ahai tukam, atattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattama samudharitam, yad dukhruchnavadeh grasmin, karye sattum ahai tukam, atattvaarthavad alpamcha, tattama samudharitam, So, now with respect to the issue in Bangladesh, what is currently Bangladesh was previously a very prominent part of the Gaudiya Vaishnav history because it is a part of Bengal and we have many many holy places over there and although it’s a Bangaladesh is a Muslim majority country we have a very vibrant culture of Vaishnavism, specifically Gaudiya Vaishnavism there. I visited there just a few months ago and it was amazing to see the enthusiasm of the devotees. So there has been a recent major destabilisation the government that was there was overthrown.
Many people say it was because of the influence of the deep state in America but whatever. The previous government was a bit autocratic but at least it was keeping things the minorities safe and the country seemed to be on the path of prosperity with the new and that government was overthrown the new government that came up is basically like a puppet government and there is extremism radicalism which is running rampant and many Hindus in general have been targeted and some incidents of very brutal violence has come about as now specifically ISKCON had been targeted in 2021 during the some riots and that time there have been protests all over. Now in the last sometime last few weeks or couple of weeks only specifically ISKCON has become targeted and Sanatan Dharma is in general being targeted, Hindus are being targeted and ISKCON is being seen as a extremist organisation and one reason for that was that ISKCON has a significant influence among various Hindu organisations and ISKCON was working to some extent in trying to manage the situation so there’s one particular devotee Chinmay Krishnadas he was a active leader in ISKCON previously then there were some issues some character allegations were made against him and because of that he became distanced from ISKCON.
Now those allegations how true they are or how not true they are that’s a different issue investigation was going on but suspension was done in the entry so then he was managing a major ISKCON property and he was influential he is was influential leader in the broader not just within ISKCON but outside also and then he became very active during this whole agitation persecution of Hindus and he was targeted by the government over there he has been arrested for incendiary activities with that accusation and he’s been now taken to an undisclosed location because he was a saffron lot of Hindu groups became concerned and they have expressed support for him and then ISKCON made a statement disassociating itself from him so that has agitated a lot of people saying that agitated a lot of people on social media saying that in India in India basically Hindus were supporting ISKCON they have become agitated saying that why are you abandoning your own person why are you throwing him under the bus and the current situation is that there is a geopolitical level the American government is changing and the current American next American government under Trump they’ve already Trump made some tweet about the radicalists being supported and those minorities being persecuted so it may well be that right now the extremists are trying to do whatever they can before the American government changes and then pressure is exerted on them to gain some control these are all political speculation as you can see but there is certainly an intensification in the rhetoric and the action against Hindus and specifically against ISKCON in the last few days and our movement has been and our leaders have been trying to deal with it and because it was a very sensitive situation we have a significant number of devotees who are in a minority so our leaders have requested or even insisted that the devotees in general should not make any public statements because that may escalate the situation over there so the challenge there is specifically that any country that there is this accusation of like dual loyalty let’s say that say if there’s India Pakistan cricket match and say Pakistan wins and in certain parts of India people celebrate then what will happen is Indians in general get enraged are you an Indian and are you affiliated the India are you to identify their religion more and therefore your loyalty lies to the religion and to that country so like that the way they try to at least some extremists are trying to spin it in Bangladesh is that ISKCON is not loyal to Bangladesh when people become ISKCON devotees they become loyal to their religion and because of their religion they become loyal to India and they become disloyal to Bangladesh and that is being used to portray them as threats or even traitors to the country now the challenge of dual loyalty is almost everywhere say India is on a cricket tour of Australia now now in Australia in the cricket matches because there’s a huge Indian community over there so the Indian team gets more cheered by the in Australia that Australia so then there are some Australians who get enraged this is you’re saying in our country your loyalty should be to our country not to your country so now of course there’s no political extremism over there so it’s just more annoyance than threat over there but this threat of dual loyalty is there and that’s why there was some concern about now that’s could be one reason that I’m not we can’t really be sure what exactly is happening but overall there has been a request that nobody should comment in the public media because that may escalate the situation but now the situation is already escalated and people we may not be commenting but others are commenting and others are asking questions and we need to have some answers ready so yesterday Rajesh Kapoor suggested to me that this is a topic that is there in the mind of everyone anyone who has some connection with social media or anyone who has some connection in some who has some connection on social media they are being asked these questions so we’ll try to discuss it at today at four different levels so I’ll talk about it at firstly we’ll talk about it a philosophical level then I’ll talk about it at a I talked about it a lot the geopolitical level then we’ll talk about at an institutional level that what is the institution doing and then finally we’ll talk at an individual level what can we do ourselves so at a philosophical level there are broadly three okay this is something I can do I think we have to talk at a technological level first maybe we could just try a wire unwired connection if this doesn’t work let’s see if I keep it like this we tried that one this is a different one okay let’s take let’s keep it like this so hopefully it won’t move much so now at a philosophical level I’ll talk about different things so generally it a some issues come up like this and people say it’s this is all politics we should not get involved in politics that we are a spiritual organisation and we should say neutral and there is some validity to that so I’ll talk about it now the word politics has two different meanings one is more of a functional neutral meaning and the other is more of ethical meaning see politics literally refers to the art of the system of governance so every country has to have some political administration that’s why in school we might study civics or political science or political philosophy so at that level we may not be interested in politics but politics is interested in us in the sense that the government taxes citizens the government makes rules that affect citizens the governmental policies they definitely affect people so we cannot be a pathetic toward politics like the history of the world shows that whenever there is power change those who are supporting the previous power often get persecuted those who support the incoming power get promoted so at a political level things do change and they affect us and if we consider Krishna himself dissents to bring about a political change when he says dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge so what is that dharma he’s saying that basically those kings those heads of state who are adharmic minashaya cha duskrtam that he removes them and he brings in power protects those so krishna is not politically uninvolved now in this sense dharma which krishna is the word krishna that dharma is being used is in a particular sense dharma is used here to refer to social order when krishna comes I come to establish dharma he’s talking about social order so there has to be order in society at a basic level by which people can survive people can grow in their lives and if that is not there it is a situation of great caves so now the second sense of politics is ethical where you know don’t do politics that means there is manipulation there is groupism there is backbiting there is scheming and all the things use our dirty politics so all that is done to attain or retain power so that can be quite dark and deadly at times so in that ethical sense we don’t want to get involved in politics so in one sense the functional sense of politics refers to the word dharma and what is sometimes done in the name of politics that will be a dharma so now not everything that is done in the pursuit of dharma has to be a dharma but I hope these two senses are clear so when we say we don’t we don’t want to be political this we certainly don’t want to be manipulative and backbiting getting into the whole dirty domain of politics at the same time politics affects us so just saying this issue is political and I don’t want to comment on it may not work especially when that issue starts affecting us at a very direct level some issues may not affect us who rule which country which party wins the elections America may not affect us much now which party wins the elections in India may affect us much more which party wins the local elections and how their attitude is towards the temple that we are trying to build that may affect us much much more so in that sense politics we can’t be apathetic towards it so now the word dharma also has another meaning which is individual duty so again dharma has almost eight or nine meanings in the bhagavad-gita itself as Krishna is using it so this is 4.8 dharmasamsthapanathaya sambhavami yuvevye but pruchchami tuam dharmasammur jeetaha Arjuna is saying Krishna I want to know what is dharma so there he is not asking what is the right social or what is the right kind of social government to establish he’s not asking about say monarchy or democracy or anything he’s asking about what is the right thing for me to do he starts with that dilemma or should I fight or should I not fight but he goes deeper you know what is the right thing to do how do I determine it so that is dharma at an individual level and that’s what we will discuss at the last part of the session but at this point it’s important to understand the difference between dharma and shraddha shraddha sometimes dharma is more like social order shraddha is more of faith now we may use the word bhakti also for shraddha but in the bhagavatam is talk about shraddha in the three modes normally sometimes it is translated as bhakti in the three modes sometimes translated as dharma in the three modes but broadly we have faith in the three modes in the in the bhagavad-gita also shraddha, tara, vibhaga, yoga so in one sense if you see how Krishna is presenting it so Krishna has a broad mission 4.7 to 8 is dharma and then 4.9 and 10 is about shraddha or bhakti what do you mean by that 4.9 and 10 are janma karma chame devyam and then vitaragbhaya krodha bahvo jnana tapasa puta madbhavamagata so in one sense the way Krishna is saying it that those who understand this they will come to my abode and in the past many have become purified by the austerity of knowledge jnana tapasa and they have come to me so dharma in one sense is mandatory that Krishna comes to establish but bhakti is voluntary Krishna wants that to happen but Krishna is not forcing that to happen Krishna is not saying that you know anybody who doesn’t become a bhakta I’ll destroy he’s not saying that he’s that is because ultimately bhakti is a matter of the heart the faith cannot be legislated you can force people to do certain activities which are so associated particular faiths but faith has to be internally chosen and inspired so so when we use that the word that the Kurukshetra war was a dharma yuddha when you say dharma yuddha if you consider what does it mean we had the on one side we had the Pandavas on the other side we had the Kauravas now it was not that the war was fought if Duryodhana said I’ll start chanting Hare Krishna the war will end no it was fought because Duryodhana was being manipulative and deceptive it grabbed the kingdom of Pandavas now if that chanting Hare Krishna had been accompanied with an actual change of heart where he became dharmic that would have made a difference see on the side of the Pandavas on the Kauravas side there were Vaishnavas who were the Vaishnavas it was not a fight between Krishna bhaktas and people following some other religion isn’t it there are Vaishnavas on the opposite side who were the Vaishnavas on the Kauravas side? Bhishma himself was there there’s another person Bhurishrava Bhurishrava was also king he was also Vaishnava Shantanu was there he was also a Vaishnava on the Pandavas side there were Shaivites who were they? Drupada was a Shaivite you know Draupadi worshipped Lord Shiva and that’s how she got five husbands as a previous life but that was Drupada was a Shaivite he respected Krishna but his personal faith was Shaivite so it was not a battle between Krishna bhaktas and somebody worshipping some other God it was and the battle was not fought so that everybody will become a Krishna bhakta if they became that’s a nice result see when Yudhishthira Maharaj became the Emperor he performed the Rajasviya yajna there he did the Agra puja of Krishna but that did not mean he enforced that everybody has to worship Krishna he said that in my understanding and his understanding is very important because he’s the Emperor of the world in my understanding Krishna is the most important person and he respected Krishna that action itself is glorious and that will inspire many to worship Krishna so why am I talking about this difference is that that when we talk about Dharma in today’s parlance Dharma is often associated with the word religion and we talk about Hindu Dharma but then the Sanatana Dharma we often talk about it so Krishna comes to establish Dharma and Dharma is not directly associated with religion it can be what we mean religion today is different from what the way the word Dharma is used in the Bhagavad Gita so now the purpose of Dharma is to establish order in society so that there can be peace and prosperity there can be growth material and spiritual both can happen so now in today’s world one of the big threats one of the big threats is radicalism radicalism we may call it fanaticism the word now it is radicalised so what we’re talking about in the verse 18.22 that is radicals radicalism means what people when they become radicalised then they take one particular thing and make it into everything so they label people based on particular religious belief now radicalism has two expressions so there is extremism sorry there is exclusivism exclusivism is more in thought that means we believe that we have exclusive rights to God only when you follow our religion that will take you will go to God otherwise you’re not going to go to God you are going to go to hell that is exclusivism now exclusive means only here like sometimes you may have had that okay the World Cup is exclusively on ESP it’s only here nowhere else exclusivist is God is available only here nowhere else now there are extremists they are in action so exclusivist what they believe extremists do in action so exclusivist say if you don’t worship our God you’re going to go to hell extremists are actually much kinder they say anyway you’re going to go to hell so why delay it we will help you get there fast so so radicalism can take these two forms now it’s important thing is radicalism we often talk about it in we will see the religious radicalism but there can be secular radicalism also it is not that religion alone can radicalise me so for example when Marxism was in power in China and so with Russia that was a very radical ideology anybody who did not agree with that ideology was persecuted was eliminated so what is that is a hundred million people were killed in Soviet Russia and China without any war without any major war the government only anybody was a suspect they would be killed so radicalism was is dangerous it can so radicalism is it can be associated with a particular religion it need not be a particular religion any religion at all so radicalism is the enmity or enemy of humanity so many times when such extremist incidents happen that there there is a certain school of thought which is you know okay we don’t want to speak bad about any particular religion that’s why we won’t comment on anything now that’s why we have to differentiate that all Shraddha is not the same the Bhagavatam says when the Shraddha when faith is in ignorance what happens is it has certain characteristics first of all it is separatist it is not cooperative it is separatist then it becomes intolerant separatist means oh you know we be alone are special and we are separate from everyone’s rather than seeing the shared humanity of everyone we focus only on the speciality of our own group to talk about and then from there it becomes intolerant that now you are bad so it becomes intolerance is more like exclusivism and from there it becomes violent so it degenerates so extremism of any radicalism or extremism any kind is dangerous and when at one level the government’s responsibility is to maintain Dharma which means basic human order in society if radicalism becomes a threat for that then radicalism has to be stopped so now can radicalism be associated the particular religion yes it’s entirely possible but that does not necessarily mean that entire religion is radical and that does not mean that by criticising radicalism we are criticising just an entire religion no I was just in the Middle East Dubai is one of the safest places in the world because at a basic human level Dharma not in the form of religion but Dharma in the form of social order is maintained very strong even small crimes are I was in Oman small crimes are severely punished over that may go towards the extreme but law and order is very good over there at a basic level so this different so now when radicalism comes up eventually it will lead to persecution not just of people of other religions but also people of one’s own religion who do not agree with one’s beliefs it’s like among Muslim there are Shias and Sunnis so the radical is elements of Shias who will target Sunnis Sunnis will target Shias now then in Pakistan there were the Ahmadiyya Muslims who during the independence struggle supported Pakistan but now those Ahmadiyya Muslims are almost on the verge of getting extinct because the they are seen as deviants by those who are radicalists because if you don’t agree with my interpret not just you don’t worship my God you have to worship my God according to my interpretation and if you don’t do that then you are evil so radicalism is an enemy of humanity then Christianity so that there are many divisions so there is so there is so there was in Los Angeles this is a apocryphal this is imaginary incident but it illustrates the principle the joke I was one Christian told me about this about how they see narrow-mindedness sometimes so he said that there was a man on the Los Angeles bridge it’s a well-known bridge of our river and he was about to jump down and commit suicide there was a river below and then somebody just stopped walking hey stop don’t end your life why not nobody cares whether I live or die nobody loves me but Jesus loves you so you look back are you a Christian this person on the bridge standing is it so the other person said yes and then the other person so are you a Christian yes so then this person was walking towards the bridge closer and closer to him since which Christian are you so I said I’m a protestant so wonderful I’m also protestant okay then which which protestant are you so he says I’m a Baptist oh wonderful I’m also Baptist which Baptist are you says I’m a Southern Baptist oh wonderful I’m also Southern Baptist so which Southern Baptist I’m a reformed Southern Baptist jump down and die you non-believer you don’t deserve to live so what happens is that even if there are so many similarities one dissimilarity and we start condemning that person so extremism makes makes people lose their sense of basic human decency human sensitivity when he basic humanity itself that’s why we have to cut snow at a cosmic one thing is made into everything you don’t worship God according to my conception of God therefore everything else you do is of no value we devalue and dehumanise other people and that is extremely dangerous this can happen in any ideology so this is the difference between there is philosophy is not the same as ideology although the words are used see philosophy is associate more with understanding we want to understand things okay what is actually happening one meaning of philosophy is it is that a branch of knowledge which helps us to make sense of things that don’t make sense so make sense of things that don’t make sense so we live life with such a bigger trying to do things of value and suddenly death comes and takes everything away so what is the point of living what is death is life worth living if everything is going to end at death that is the question answered by philosophy that is attempted to be answered with loss so philosophy it helps us to make sense when things don’t make sense but our ideology is more about acting and you know we this is right this is wrong and this wrong has to be eliminated and this has to be not just established but enforced so there can be religious radical ideology there can be religious radical ideology so ideology especially I don’t know indoctrination is condemned so some strong action is required against religious extremism now we see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s sanyasi before that he was a grasta when there was radicalism at this time he had a protest march he did not say that okay you know I don’t want to involve in politics because there’s a direct threat the Mridanga was attacked the Kirtan was stopped so he challenged it stop it so that is it this is at a philosophical level we need to take action and we don’t have to be filled with hate toward a particular religion or a particular community I have to see that this is a particular mentality that mentality may be at present more prevalent in a particular religion but the mentality is the problem the shraddha is not the problem it is the tamoguna the it is more the when there is this shraddha and tamas when they come together then that can make things very dangerous so now let’s move toward geopolitics so this is the philosophical perspective with that foundation let move to the geopolitical perspective now what happened in Bangladesh was that when India became independent it also became partitioned and Pakistan and Bangladesh were both Pakistan at a particular time but although look there are Christianity Islam they condemn Hinduism for its caste system and caste discrimination but that caste is a mentality and there is there is some kind of class division in the West also so even in Islam you know those who were born in the Arabic world they are considered to be like more purer Muslims and those who were not ethnically born there so like Pakistanis and others those were later converted but they are considered like a lower level Muslims so there is religion but there is also ethnicity ethnicity means the particular race that you belong so within the religion there is hierarchy based on ethnicity so that’s something that’s not exactly caste system but it’s something similar so what happened was the because Bangladesh was a part of Bengal and Bengal while it was ruled by Muslims it was also very deep devoutly religious in terms of you can talk about Sanatan Dharma religiosity so often Pakistan Pakistani Muslims they look down upon Bangladeshi Muslims because in Bangladesh at least at that time the kind of hatred towards India that was there with Pakistan which was the defining identity of Pakistan that was not there so over a period of time Bangladesh decided that we want to be independent I’m not going to go into the specifics of the history but when because the Pakistan it was under Pakistan Pakistani army did a lot of persecution and they targeted anyone who was opposing them but especially the minorities at that time it is one of the biggest genocide that are not talked about what happened and thousands and millions of refugees started streaming into India at that time and that in the Indian government took action Indian government supported Bangladesh and fought again and give them weapons and military support to fight against Bangla Pakistan and Bangladesh became independent so basically what happened was they were persecuted based on their ethnicity that you you are not really real Muslims because you are but you have this Bangla culture or whatever but now what has happened is that extremism over the years for whatever reasons has become very strong radicalism is become very strong in Bangladesh and there are even I went to Bangladesh you look at the faces of the Muslims or the Hindus the faces look very similar you know that physically they are the same people and the service they are beard and some other not everybody has a particular kind of beard or whatever but they are very similar but now as radicalism has become more and more in Bangladesh so what has happened is Hindus now are being targeted by overlooking the ethnicity and sensing only their religion no originally they were targeted because of religion and based on their ethnicity but now they it’s whole thing has turned around but the same thing that narrow mentality that you do not follow our religion that although ethnically they’re the same you can go further ethnically can say all Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh were originally Hindus because they were all converted hmm it is but if we forget that history also ethnically they’re still the same so somehow they are being targeted very strong and generally every country requires when countries face problems then they try to find out what is the cause of the problem and then ahaituka matatvaarthava there’s some people who come up you know all our problems are because of this this group of people so like in the West Jews were often made the scapegoats Hitler made Jews the scapegoat Germany failed the first world war because of Jews and Germans we couldn’t succeed we are the original Aryans we couldn’t succeed because the Jews are the problem so Jews should be eliminated so instead of actual problems are in solving it is very easy to scapegoat someone so in many ways Hindus in Bangladesh are being scapegoated for the country’s problems so the violence against them it is definitely because of radicalism but there is politics and nationalism all that has come into that toxic mix over there because of which the targeting is happening so while this is happening now Bangladesh there’s also power struggle between China and America going on and America often does military coups in various countries or overtly or covertly to try to have a government which will be more favourable to America more controllable by America so there are lots of things which keep happening and at a geopolitical level the government so now at this stage many Hindus and supporters of Sanatan Dharma are quite upset with the Indian government also the Indian government doesn’t seem to be taking any major action it’s either silent or not doing much overtly to protect the rights of Hindus although the current government is expected to be much more sympathetic towards Hindus so what happens is politics becomes a very complex business and what all factors need to be considered when for doing which action it’s only those who are in who are in that position they know about it so generally when somebody behaves in a way so what I’m going to talk at a geopolitical level also will apply the institutional level so I will talk about this a little bit more in detail before we move forward see generally when somebody does something which doesn’t make sense to us if somebody is somebody is having incomprehensible action you should be doing this why you’re not doing this so this person is a wrongdoer why are you not punishing him or this person is right why are not supporting so sometimes actions of those who are in power they may not make sense like I have a friend in the military and he’s telling me when India did the surgical the strikes the India kept it a big secret and for quite some time before the surgical strikes were done both in the army and in the country there’s a lot of unrest why the government not doing anything now what happened in the army the previous government was quite passive or even after the attack bomb blast in Bombay the Indian government did nothing so the army to that sir army had to some extent resigned itself to the fact that okay this government does nothing but in the new government had come they had expected the army to be they had expected the government to be much more assertive in actions there’s a lot of unrest and why is nothing being done but eventually the surgical strikes were done and they were done thus the element of surprise was what made them effective so the thing is that in politics a lot may be happening behind the scenes which we may not be aware of so generally when somebody is doing something which doesn’t make sense to us no the more the big when we see people doing some things we start why are they doing this why they’re not doing this we try to look beyond people’s actions to their motives to their motivations now the we may say that this person is ignorant they’re not even aware of this they don’t they they they just took what is other things because of ignorance they’re not doing now slightly more negative is incompetence they’re just not good at it hmm they are not they’re not competent enough they don’t have the skill they don’t have the expertise and in politics this could be a real problem if somebody is incompetent historically when India and India was attacked by so many Muslim invaders and almost on most occasions when the invaders would come their armies would always be smaller than the armies of the defending country eventually when Aurangzeb got power Aurangzeb’s army was much bigger than Shivaji Maharaj’s army but initially the Muslim armies would be much smaller so what would happen how they kept winning and winning they lost many times but they won far more so to some extent there was incompetence you know the Indian kings would fight on elephants now elephants are regal and majestic but elephants can’t move very fast and somebody’s on the elephant is a easy target for everyone to attack so the Muslim ruler Muslim invaders would come in chariots or just come on horses and then the target the king once the king is killed everybody would fall the army would just lose now then this is simplistic not a simplistic but this is one reason for it but what I’m saying is in the real world incompetence has serious consequences so somebody may not be ill-motivated but they’re incompetent it can have consequences now beyond that there can be malevolence malevolence means malice that they are they want to hurt they want to harm so now it is very when we don’t like someone it is very easy to ascribe the most negative motive that you know they are bad people that’s why they’re doing this but to the extent we know someone we like someone we will want to as we’ll want to ascribe the most charitable motive to their actions so now among these there could be their ignorance but if you want to be most charitable we could talk about our ignorance that you know we don’t know what all is going on we don’t know what all factors need to be considered to do certain things so there is much that is happening behind the scenes and especially when issues of national security and bigger issues are concerned so what can be done or what is being done we may not know so sometimes it is best to give the benefit of the doubt that things will change with time and we’ll see over time what happens so it is not that we can be very reactionary nobody is saying that India should attack Bangladesh or anything like that that is an extreme action to lead to far more escalation so political pressure can be exerted in different ways and talk about this principle of political pressure later so at a geopolitical level a lot of complexities are there and to some extent things are changing in India there was a geopolitical change that the Sanatana Dharma is being much more supported now so things can change at a geopolitical level now at an institutional level what is being done now so basically I think there are three factors to consider over here our movement is relatively new and small we are just 50 60 years and because we have relatively high standards for our practise we don’t have a large number of members so we are new and small and throughout most of our history we were politically uninvolved so in one sense we are in uncharted territory right uncharted territory means we have no precedent to look back at so during Prabhupada’s time there were not such such major incidents yes when the when Mayapur there was attack Prabhupada said devotees should also keep guns to protect themselves if we are any attacker Prabhupada did say that we have to defend ourselves now Prabhupada talked about Kshatriya culture but Prabhupada did not talk about he did not have to deal with issues at a governmental level of conspiracy or a governmental level of targeting yes there were issues when the communists were very active and Prabhupada was doing a pandal programme in Kolkata and they threatened so Prabhupada talked with them at a one-to-one level pacified them and his programme went on thereafter so there are issues of Prabhupada taking dealing with issues but dealing with somewhat similar issue but not at this scale so where in an entire country the entirety community is being threatened now when Prabhupada had some devotees going to Bangladesh Pakistan for preaching and when there was threat Prabhupada just asked all those devotees to come back we appreciate their courage in going there for preaching but he also said there’s no need for so much threat to do that so the devotees who were in the middle in Soviet Russia they they were very discreet in their preaching so the point is here we have a well-developed and it is under threat so what exactly can be done at such a time so we are in uncharted territory at this particular point so now in the past ISKCON has been relatively inactive as I said politically things are changing with time in Bangladesh in Bengal we are a significant electoral influence in Britain we are a significant influence in Britain their system is that there are two main parties so they have in the Sunday feast both politicians both parties politician one politician comes on one Sunday feast the other politician comes on next Sunday feast and they speak for 5-10 minutes and the politicians they’re also quite terrified I was there once at a Sunday feast so they know they speak about what they how they appreciate the religious diversity that of Britain and how Hindus are contributing to it and what policies they have enacted or they will enact to support Hindus they are canvassing for votes so it’s done in a very decent way and both parties are given a brief platform and they don’t get into political rhetoric of criticising the other party or anything like that so in some there are different devotees who are using different places there are different things being done so at this stage our devotees know how much do we support one person who is threatened but in supporting that one person will the entire devotee community become threatened by that by distancing ourselves from that one person can the devotee community be protected now these are decisions which we cannot really know what is right and what is wrong some people may see this as an ethical decision generally when we talk about what is right and wrong we can consider based on three factors what is being done that is the content of the action then why is it being done the intent of the action and then what happens because of that the consequence of the action so in terms of content of the action some people may say that actually no somebody who is a member of our movement he should be supported by the movement he should not be abandoned just because he’s making that’s one valid consideration but another might be that yeah we have one member but we have a larger community you know we can support one member but if the entire community becomes targeted and what do we do at that time so maybe it is important to protect the larger community and not we’re not just abandoning but we’re distancing ourselves from one person is this the right decision is the intent could be good somebody may debate with the content now what is right that only time will tell it of the consequence what works out and what does not work so in the Ramayana is very interesting incident that when Shurpanakha comes and she’s attracted to Ram initially she smells human flesh and comes to I want to eat but when she sees Ram how majestic and handsome he is suddenly her lunchbox changes into her love interest and and she propositions now now Ram senses that this is this could be a demoness or this could be dangerous but for a woman to propose herself generally the man who proposed a woman wakes up or does not accept so woman proposing she is putting herself in a vulnerable situation so Ram wants to let her down gently so in a very like a jesting way joking way he says you know actually I’m already married if you become my second wife you let me subordinate to her Lakshman alone can go to her and she immediately goes now that shows it’s not love it is lust isn’t it in love it’s at least you’re interested in the person but it was just complete loss and she was Lakshman and Lakshman also understands Ram’s mood he says you know actually if you follow me if you marry me I am here serving Ram and Lakshman so you will have to serve both you’ll have to serve three of us I don’t think this is this is suitable so now he says you know maybe if you just go to Rama and now for her you know one rejection is bad enough two rejections on the same day just becomes too much and she instead of getting now they are trying to gently let her down but what happens is she becomes anxious because of why am I not being accepted and she just thinks it’s because of this Sita and she starts trying to attack Sita to strangle her and that time Ram stops her just by the severe stern sound of his voice she’s frozen and then she says Lakshman it has become clear that we should not jest with those who are cruel or wicked and then he says don’t kill her but disable her don’t kill her because she’s a woman but disable stop her so then Lakshman cuts off her pointed nose and her her outcropping ears he stops her now it’s interesting Ram says we should not jest with such people now when he say it’s become it’s become clear you should not jest with but he himself had jest so what is he saying is he wrong in jesting it’s not a matter of right and wrong in the situation is how different people will react in different situations we don’t know no no even although God is omniscient God is not controlling everyone’s free will so the point is in real life we may do one thing it may work sometimes it may not work so we can be assured that those who are doing action are our best intention and we are learning from experience what can be done in such situations so let’s see hopefully things will change and devotees will be protected so now last is the individual level since I’ll conclude this at an individual level broadly we have our position and we have our disposition so roughly we can equate this with our disposition is our guna our position is our karma by our karma we acquire a particular role a particular position guna karma vibhagya disposition refers to the particular orientation that we have so all the file Pandavas were by position Kshatriyas but they had different dispositions Yudhishthira was more like a Brahminical Kshatriya just try to be peaceful be tolerant try to resolve everything by peaceful means now Bhima was more like a Kshatriya Kshatriya. He is Kshatriya squared. He is like he would be itching for a fight and now both of them are Kshatriyas so they have the same position more or less but their disposition is different Arjuna often acted as a balancer between Yudhishthira and Bhima so now we all we could say in terms of our position we are we are follows Sanatana Dharma now are we Hindus now in the history of ISKCON especially when we were preaching in the Western world ISKCON tended to dis-identify itself with Hindus we focus on the that this is a universal principles they’re not associated the sectarian religion and yes that is true to some extent that the principle that we’re talking about Sanatana Dharma is beyond what is called by the particular label Hinduism at the same time there is in this Vyavaharik there is Paramarthik and there is Vyavaharik.
Paramarthik is transcendental or spiritual Vyavaharik is practical or functional so at a transcendental level yes we are Krishna bhaktas we are not Hindus but at the Vyavaharik level at a practical level if we have to identify ourselves you know if we are to put ourselves in the classification of this world then we have to put ourselves somewhere now see when we go to Vrindavan one of the offences against the Dham is to say that Vrindavan to consider it to be a part of the material world yes Vrindavan is not in the material world yet Vrindavan is in India isn’t it Vrindavan is not in Pakistan or Bangladesh or China within the geography of here we have to put it somewhere I may go to America to to share the message that we are transcendental beings but at the American immigration they ask which country I am from I can’t say I am transcendental so I have to give my Vyavaharik identity over there that is I have to show my Indian passport is it so we have to we focus on the transcendental identity but we also have to acknowledge the Vyavaharik identity so in the religious classification in this world we are not Muslims we are not Christian we are Hindus and even if we don’t identify ourselves as Hindus those who are radical will identify us as Hindus and if they are going to target us probably we are among the most visible Hindus isn’t it because we dress in a particular way we are Tilak so we will be targeted so in that sense when you talk about our position our position could be within a particular religion then our position could also be within a particular institution so depending on what role a particular person has in a particular institution then they may need to speak and how they speak has to be in harmony with the institution that they are in and specifically the role that they are in that institution so if somebody was a hardline say political leader when being elected seeking campaigning they may make very firebrand kind of statements but when that same person becomes the Chief Minister or the Prime Minister then now they may be a member of a particular political party but then now they are the head of the state so they have to speak in a way that is according to the dignity and property of the position that we have so at an institutional level we are all members of an institution and that may constrain that may shape how we function in particular ways but also depends on who is how much affiliate with the somebody may be in saccharine and maybe a office bureau of the institution somebody may be a member of the institution but you know they are not financially dependent they don’t have official designation they are members so they may have a little more autonomy so they can have their position so can will is gone enter into politics and if you’re doing politics in the sense of supporting a particular party or canvassing for a particular party that’s unlikely hmm that depends but it’s unlike it’s gone openly supporting a particular body body may not happen but can it’s gone devotees enter into politics and certainly they can that’s that’s their individual choice we have a devotee entering the politics with not much success but that’s their initiative so individuals in an organisation has a lot of so if some devotee is on social media and they’re acting on social media now can they post certain things the moment is not going to be a policing moment is going to legislate but then we represent the moment also to some degree to different degrees of authority but we represent so our positions may be constrained by the institution that we belong to at the same time we have our own disposition so some some individuals just by their disposition may have more of a Shatya nature that they are more confrontational they they are more activists they want to fix things if they have that particular nature then that that disposition will inspire them to take a particular role and we have devotees in our movement also were more activists so we may not so the political pressure can be applied through protests to petitions through rallies and a certain level of political pressure can bring about certain changes now if some devotees at an individual level want to do such things now there are Hindus at a broader community level doing some things like this protesting against what is happening and if devotees want to do it that’s certainly up to them if they’re right if they’re responsive they can do it now if say the disposition of a particular individual is to be very activist and the institution is not that activist so that does not mean that that person has to give the institution or the institution has to give up that business if somebody feels very concerned about a particular issue they can take particular positions now they can make sure that they say I’m not I am a ISKCON member but I’m not representing ISKCON’s position over here I am here as an individual so when I was sometimes some social justice social campaign happens on social justice towards the political right the social campaign happens an environment campaign happens you know when I’m travelling in a plane or a train I am at the airport some people ask me can you support this petition so then I may support it if I feel the cause is worthwhile but I support it in my legal not my spiritual I’m supporting this as an individual not as a not as a person of leadership any kind of leadership position in ISKCON so as individuals if we want to do certain things we can do those things now and if somebody else doesn’t do those things we don’t have to be disturbed but certainly this is a issue of concern for all of us because it is radicalism which is affecting people or those who are devotees those who are following the same faith those who are followers of Sanatan Dharma now to what extent that concern goes and how much we how strongly we accept that except express that concern that will vary from person to person so I’ll conclude with one last point see in spiritual consciousness when we face life’s disturbances life’s ups and downs our response can range from equanimity to empathy equanimity means steadiness Krishna Sita Pragya Krishna says that one who is just not know the local no can know the DJ one who is not disturbed by others one would have not disturbed others now Praharishit Priyam Prapya No Dujyat Prapyacharya equanimity means somebody may say oh this world is a place of ups and downs bad things keep happening over here and we shouldn’t get too disturbed by it we should focus on our sadhana and we should grow spiritual so that is one response and it is a valid response it is now empathy so equanimity for example Krishna talks about this in 2.56 but empathy so it’s like equanimity is like an emotional distance I don’t want to get involved in this but empathy Krishna talks about in 6.32 that that one sees the true equality of all living beings in their happiness and their distress that means that one sees that actually these are also people like me and they they’re suffering I will also be suffering the situation and if I would have wanted relief if I was suffering similarly they need relief and let me help them so we don’t have to label those devotees who choose a response of empathy as just being having mundane emotions are not being spiritual enough are getting involved in bodily resignations we don’t have to label them negative are all those things possible they’re possible but they don’t have to be necessarily like that it could be that somebody the spiritual level is expressing empathy on the other hand if we have a more of activist nature then we should not label those who exhibit equanimity you know you are just being impractical you know you are being utopian you have your head stuck in the sand you’re like ostrich you know those kind of labels every devotee is individual and each person will act according to the individual disposition so we don’t want to get into labelling at the same time where there is concern felt the concern needs to be acted on in an appropriate way to bring about some change so what kind of change that will depend on individual position and disposition so I’ll summarise what I discussed today broadly we talked about the targeting of the targeting of devotees and of Sanatan Dharma followers in Bangladesh and I said we’ll talk about this at four levels what are the first level remember philosophical yes at a philosophical level I discuss two main points first is about Dharma how it is individual is social is maintained maintain law and order an individual is right thing to do so Dharma is different from what we call as Shraddha or what is often associated with faith or religion today this is not the same and then we talked about radicalism which is knowledge in the mode of ignorance in the Bhagavad Gita and that is the enmity enemy of humanity from whatever garb it comes and a part of Dharma is to actually stop radicalism because so Dharma at a social level we can it is it can be seen from a ethical term that politicking is there but a functional level maintaining order in society is vital without it nothing can function so one aspect of Dharma is to stop radicalism that could be radicalism could be religious but it can also be secular so that we are not targeting a particular religion recognising that it’s a mentality Thomasic mentality so Shraddha and Thomas comes together it becomes toxic because it becomes I talked about radicalism in two ways there’s exclusivist in thought and then there is extremist in action so the Bhagavad Gita says that the people are this is separatist intolerant and violent it becomes with time so then I talked about this at a geopolitical level where we talk about various issues and how the geopolitical institution I talk in somewhat similar terms that there are there are many factors involved over there so when somebody’s actions don’t make sense so why are the political leaders why the institutional leaders not acting properly why are they not doing something when they don’t make sense we can the most negative motive will be malice malevolence that you know they are apart they’re bad people that’s why they’re doing bad they want to hurt others as could be incompetence and incompetence at a leadership level has serious consequences they may just not be skilled them they could be ignorant they just don’t know or they don’t care but it could also be ignorance on our side that we don’t know what is going on over here and that’s why these things are complex so this could be the most charitable explanation that we can go towards and we wait and watch to see how things emerge so specific there’s been institution under talk about how we are small and new and we are in an uncharted territory right now we have not had to deal with this kind of entire community of devotees being threatened and it didn’t happen in Prabhupada’s time so what exactly the right thing to do that is something only time will tell so some people may focus on it is not about how intent content and consequence so some people may consider content and how can you not support somebody who is a member hmm some people may focus on the content on the intent that we want to protect the larger community and that means distancing ourselves from a particular individual that’s what is required so we wait and watch to see how things work out and lastly I talked about in the individual level individual level we have a particular position that is comes from our karma so in this case our affiliating with a particular institution and then we have our disposition in another position we may not identify ourselves as Hindus but we will be identified as Hindu so we can’t distance ourselves from Hindu concerns because we’ll be targeted and then in the moment depending on how closely we are in a affiliated with the movement our particular statement need to be moderated accordingly but if somebody has a disposition to engage so with respect to disposition I talked the range could be from somebody may have equanimity these things keep happening there’s no need to get disturbed about these things and empathy that they are going through difficult things and we need to support them but they’re also our fellow beings so the range can move rather than labelling somebody who is having a different response understand that spirituality can embrace a large number of responses and overall if we feel inspired then we can exert political pressure through anything ranging from rallies and protests to comments and posts on social media and how much can these have an effect we don’t know now we can do our part and sometimes our part may be small sometimes our part may be large sometimes our part may presently be small and may become large in the future but if we keep doing our part then eventually Krishna will do his part and we will reveal to us how things ultimately evolve where everybody’s drawn closer to Krishna finally thank you very much so are there any questions if you surrender Krishna then only even the impersonal liberation is possible even the impersonal liberation without bhakti doesn’t exist so sometimes this is seen as a kind of radicalism by certain fictions. See what happens is that every tradition will have certain statements will be exclusivist and certain statements will be inclusivist so it depends on the current generation of leaders which statements they emphasise see if you see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu there were there were some Ram bhaktas who met Chaitanya Mahaprabhu there was a South India tour there was one Ram bhakta who was chanting Ram’s names and met Mahaprabhu and started chanting Krishna’s names there’s another Ram bhakta for whom Mahaprabhu got back the Matsya Puran where Sita’s abduction was Maya Sita was abducted and he continued to be a Ram bhakta Mahaprabhu appreciated Ram bhakta. Murari Gupta was a servant and he did not tell Ram he has to give up Ram bhakta.
He appreciated how faithful you are to your lord when Mahaprabhu would go to Shiva temples Bhuvaneshwar he danced there and he did not tell that oh Shiva is simply a… he didn’t speak negatively about Shiva and force those people to just worship over there so within our tradition there are there are inclusivist aspects also now when when one new Hindu leader was criticising the worship of Kali and then Bhaktivedanta Thakur wrote an article defending the worship of Kali although he said that he said that this is not the highest revelation of the Vedic scripture but this is also required it’s a part of a progression so our acharyas have taken many different positions at different times what happens is our traditions so we may highlight or gravitate towards the exclusivist positions and that happens then we will be seen as exclusivist unfortunately that has happened for many years in our movement now there could be many reasons for it see what happened was the first generation followers of the Bhagavad where from a background of an exclusivist religion and maybe because of that some of them simply replaced Jesus with Prabhupada and in one sense that exclusivist mentality was there in the first generation but I think as the movement is evolving we are seeing that our tradition itself has a lot of breadth to it depth to it so gradually more and more inclusivism is coming in so I think if somebody has that perception we say this there are definitely exclusives elements in our movement but is exclusivism something that we impose on others no it’s not that and another point is that we as a movement have not had to deal with larger governmental issues the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition historically existed on a platform of Vayanashram. Vayanashram more or less was already existing so the Bengali Vaishnavas could go to Odisha for 3-4 months in Chaturvasi and Virathatra because you know the culture of charity was there they didn’t worry about their jobs we will be fired from our jobs so there’s a lot that’s happening on the foundation of Vayanashram so when that foundation is not there then how do we interact that has to be considered so I think things are changing and if some we acknowledge if somebody has that perception there are elements within our exclusives and that is there in every religious tradition but overall our tradition has a lot of inclusivism in it. yes see that’s what you know what is happening when why something is being done is very difficult to know so so basically I think things will evolve rather than thinking that we are abandoning someone or sometimes things have to be done in the best interests and it’s difficult to know what is the right thing at that particular time so yeah thank you for sharing that, yes Poole? yeah I mentioned that in the beginning I knew that I actually I met Chinmay also when I went to Bangladesh I went there he has a he’s a nice devotee but it’s okay I don’t think so so I met him I met him also at that time and the other Bangladesh leaders told me that he has some issues so the thing that happened right now is in the public eye he has become like a champion of Hinduism and he has become he’s being treated almost like a martyr fortunately not but he’s been treated like a martyr so at this time to bring about to highlight that we that he is different from us he had been doing various things that is true but at this point whether that highlighting that was required to be done now as I said maybe that will bring about the safety of our community by right now we are in the medium of a very long period, we are still in the middle of a very long period, tomorrow if riots occur, say two decades down the line, what will happen is that they will pull these devotees out first, even within this territory and chop us off earlier than other Hindus and for something that we never stood for like I’m giving you two examples, if you look at Lord Chaitanya, he lived under a Muslim ruler without doing anything except when the Sankirtan was disturbed, and Bhaktisthan Saraswati Thakur was completely comfortable under an English rule, and as time progressed we would also, we should very quickly realise that we don’t belong to any of that now I’m very concerned that some stupidity, not stupidity, chidishness actually you know, co-religiousness, name-pain so on and so forth, and this is going to reflect bad on us in the eyes of the other community, so we are now getting into the radar of Muslims I am not sure whether we are getting into the radar, we have always been in the radar I think this is where opinions vary, whether we are already in the radar and whether this has pushed us in the radar or this has just brought awareness that we are already in the radar we are already in the radar, but it has certainly given an impetus, that’s what I’m saying, and an unwanted one yeah, that is true, it’s a difficult situation to be in, anyway we’ll talk about it separately any other questions anyone has? basically most of us who don’t have any implants, we may just be advised to pray for Bangladeshi devotees pray for Bangladeshi devotees, pray for them we may chant something for them, but individually I feel like I don’t have so much compassion so when I chant for them or something, how is that going to affect them, like Krishna is waiting for my chanting so that’s not the case, and even if you tell that, that is for my own benefit so I feel it is selfish to chant for my own benefit so let me, let us see, if it is spontaneous, it comes and then I chant for them, it’s ok, how does it matter if I chant for them intercessionary prayers, so intercession means if somebody is sick and I offer prayers so how much do my prayers affect the sickness of that person so do prayers cause, intercession is not there, intervention, interventionary prayers you could say so how much do they affect, so now there is no direct reference that I have come across in scripture I talk with different devotees and they have different opinions about it see generally our tradition very much acknowledges the power of blessings that if you are doing something and you take the blessings of others now how do blessings affect, well there are certain powers in the universe we know how curses affect, some people have mystical powers and their words can activate those mystical powers by which some people can be hurt so there are powers in the universe that we are not aware of, just as curses work, blessings also work now similarly prayers, now how do prayers work, see is Krishna waiting for my prayer to help someone well it’s not like that, Krishna, what Krishna’s plan is and how it works that we don’t know, that’s what Bhishma tells Yudhishthira Maharaj also that even the wise people get bewildered about what the Lord’s plan is but we humans have the capacity to endeavour, we know in Damodar Lila we have the human endeavour and then there is the divine grace, Yudhishthira Maharaj keeps trying and eventually Krishna lets herself be tied so one part of human endeavour is break, so human endeavour can be in terms of acting but human endeavour can also be in terms of break, so now exactly how much human endeavour will be sufficient now when did Krishna decide that okay this much rope Yudhishthira Maharaj has tried now I let myself be tied, that we can’t say but to say that human endeavour does not make any difference and that is to devalue human endeavour at the same time to think that my human endeavour is itself going to bring about a change, no our prayers can activate higher power ultimately Krishna how exactly that happens and to what degree it happens that’s something which we can’t say but if we see intersectional prayers simply as a part of human endeavour then yes if I can’t do that let me at least do this, human endeavour is not devalued in Bhakti like it says we have the whole tradition of Manas Pooja, if I can’t do physical pooja let me at least do Manas Pooja so that’s a part of endeavour, it’s not possible at a physical level at least do it at the mental level okay thank you, there’s one question here somewhere online Nagesh Nepoji, thank you for your answer, my doubt was, now you said that say now as an individual I have a different opinion which may not be related to the organisation but say now individually if I support whatever cause whatever has happened the outside society will think it as that because I’m associated with the organisation that’s why I’m supporting as a part of organisation so what should be our response to that I don’t think it’s that true that just because you’re affiliated to the organisation that means this is organisation, sometimes we can make a disclaimer that I’m not giving you the official composition, see it’s like some issue happens when somebody is an employee of Bajaj Auto or Tata, so does that if they take a position on a particular issue does that mean that is Bajaj Auto’s position, that is Tata’s position now can those companies say that all our employees, none of our employees should take any political positions it can’t be that extreme that you know the opinion of each individual becomes the opinion of the institution or that because you’re institution the individual can’t have any opinion now some companies may have certain policies that especially somebody has a very big position and somebody is the CEO of a particular company like in America if the CEO of a particular company say Twitter or SpaceX he supports a particular politician then that becomes a significant statement this is the person is the owner or the CEO or whatever but I think if people are seeing it that way we need to say that you know we are a broad institution there are many members and this is my individual understanding based on Shastra doesn’t have to be the institution’s position now especially if somebody is making a very provocative statement which is likely to endanger the institution or endanger others in the institution then such a statement we should not make if we are a part of the institution because we don’t want to endanger others because of that and sometimes the institution may have to distance themselves from a particular position of a particular individual because of the position they have taken does it answer the question? I have a doubt like I heard of like one of your lectures that the way as ISKCON we operate like we are very close society and like many times issues happen in other societies or other organisations but like we don’t interfere we don’t put our viewpoint on it but many times we are in trouble like this and like we have been then at the time we have been questioned like at that time we don’t spoke about some issues in the society then how you expect now us to support when you are in trouble how to address this issue? okay so since with respect to Hinduism there has been some criticism of ISKCON in the west that we have been quite opportunistic in our relationship with Hinduism like when we are in trouble we say we are Hindus and expect the support of Hindus and when we are preaching in relatively untroubled times we say we are not Hindus you know we are transcendent we are universal so yes there have been some level of opportunism that has unfortunately been there but I don’t think that is a institutional wide trend everywhere and our ISKCON communications has actually released an official statement about ISKCON and other faiths so we said we are a monotheistic tradition within the broad family of traditions known as Hinduism so now specifically with respect to particular causes how much we support others and how much we expect support from others I think that is something which also is evolving now so if say there is a broader initiative on cow protection certainly we will support that we have been pioneers in that there is initiative on tribal care we are working with other organisations and we are also doing a lot ourselves so I don’t think we can make an absolute statement that this is the way the movement is there have been certain trends which have happened at certain places but things are evolving and I didn’t say we should get involved I just like to nuance that statement I said that it is an issue that concerns us and based on our disposition it is a matter of that should concern us but the concern is one thing getting involved is another thing so that’s why I said the range of responses can go from equanimity to empathy so should devotees get actively involved in this yes if it is a issue of concern and if some devotees want to be involved there’s no stopping them but as I have said I’m not saying that we should get involved I’m not saying that that is the only way a devotee should be responding to such situations it is a matter of concern and we shouldn’t be using philosophy to say that we shouldn’t get involved in this that would be one extreme and I’m not using philosophy to say that we have to get involved in this it is a matter of concern.
Does it answer your question? Yes Swamiji. Thank you. Do you have any comments Prabhu? You know in Bhagavad Gita in one place Prabhu says Krishna has confused Arjuna Yes Arjuna’s illusion is because of Krishna’s arrangement He says directly Krishna has confused Arjuna and then he says now I’m going to set the sequence right so that Arjuna can get clarity on this you know there was a funny statement that was propagated in the world we can take over the world in 18 days you heard that? I have heard it yes I was told and then you wanted to have an alliance with Pope and the English Archbishop Pope was going this way radically he was going that way also radically he wanted to bring the English Archbishop and Pope because they are the common name of Jizo that was it and then Vasudha said we are not interested in the midnight Leela we are interested in the Madhyan Leela we are more into Madhyan Leela than Krishna all kinds of exclusive and extreme both we have exclusive and extreme both we have you know we have Radharani and we have what is that Anil Kumar Chandra yes Anil Kumar Chandra yes yes thank you so there is a range I think there is a range and I think it will depend on individual inspiration individual inclination lot of factors so there is a range of positions if you see Prabhupada’s approach also now Prabhupada cancelled his international tour to meet Indira Gandhi but then Prabhupada refused to move to Banerjee Desai Prabhupada said that no he should come to meet otherwise if he doesn’t respect me then what is the point of it so now is that an absolute principle Prabhupada was trying different things no but why don’t they take the same path if you want to bring the revolution in the empire’s life yes exactly that’s a very broad so that gives a big scope for this exactly we are going to build a modern world modern society we want to fix the world but we have not fixed ourselves yes that is true we can fix it later let us fix the world first I think that’s what everyone thinks you know and that’s what makes the world whole unfixed after that but yes with respect to just one concluding point with respect to In God We Trust Prabhupada started a political party and the disciple of Prabhupada told him you can become the next president of America now it is possible that actually now this is an unattributed statement I have not seen it written Prabhupada said to Prabhupada had a disciple Siddhaswaroopananda he was a very dynamic disciple Siddhaswaroopananda he was a very dynamic disciple but he had his issues with so now there is one Prabhupada disciple Jadurani Mataji she is now Shama Mataji Jadurani Mataji so she said that Prabhupada told Siddhaswaroopananda that one of your disciples will be the president of America so now Tulsi Gabbard has become quite an influential politician in America Tulsi Gabbard she is a disciple Siddhaswaroopananda she is in the administration maybe 2028 she might go but anyway but at that time Prabhupada was in politics so he said he told one of his disciples you can become the next president of America but then that Balwant Prabhu he later on met Prabhupada and said Prabhupada are you not enthusiastic about the political party he said I am very enthusiastic but just don’t ask me for any money so what Prabhupada meant was that initially politics he said the advantage in politics is you can freely criticise anyone so Prabhupada said that but then when he saw the amount of money that is required in political campaign Prabhupada decided that the Lakshmi that we have is better used for direct outreach than for political campaign so in one sense what you can say is Prabhupada was pragmatic he had a purpose of spreading Krishna consciousness and he he would try this approach whichever approach worked he emphasised on this he tried the league of devotees in Jhansi when the opposition was too much Prabhupada said it is not worth it Prabhupada left Prabhupada wanted to build a temple in Juhu the opposition was too much Prabhupada fought on over there so because Juhu was such a prime property Mumbai was such an important city so he said in this world the purpose of spreading Krishna consciousness is fixed but the path how exactly we will be able to spread Krishna consciousness for that we have to be flexible opportunistic has a negative connotation but in a way I need to be flexible what works and what does not work and the catholic church is very good at this the catholic church is very good at this and nobody is very good everybody gets mess of things but in India where there is a relatively secular country the catholic church gets sympathy in the west by saying Christians are under attack in India and they get a lot of funds from there but Christians are actually under attack in China but the catholic church has an official relationship with the Chinese government and that’s why by the relationship they all the heads of churches that are appointed in the catholic church in China are approved by the Chinese government without that nobody can become a head of a church in Tibet also but the thing is with that agreement they are able to preach some level of Catholicism and the Chinese government is persecuting Christians but non-Catholic Christians so they are able to do their own things there are some people who criticise that if your heads of leaders if your heads are approved by the government then are they going to teach Christianity or are they going to teach the Chinese government’s message that’s the question so I think these are practicalities which are very difficult to negotiate yeah yeah exactly so thank you very much let’s pray that that’s what we can do and prayers are not valueless so let’s pray that not only Krishna bring peace and harmony to the afflicted devotees but Krishna also give intelligence and resources to those who are actually in this ground reality facing the situation those who are leaders who are trying to address the situation and to all of us based on whatever resources we have so that this samsara dhavana this fire of mortal existence that has especially become inflamed in Bangladesh it can soon be extinguished Krishna Bhagwan ki jaya shila prabhupada ki jaya gaur bhakta bindaki jaya