How can we avoid getting lost in the many conversations in the Bhagavatam?

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
question how do we avoid getting lost among the many levels of nested conversations in the Srimad Bhagavatam sometimes one person is quoting another and another and it becomes difficult to keep track of who is speaking to whom so how do we avoid feeling lost answer as long as we find the meaning it doesn’t matter if we feel lost as far as the narrative itself is concerned because the important point is that the Bhagavatam is a book that is conveying certain meanings to us, certain truths to us and that we learn those truths is more important than we remember who is speaking to whom where of course we can if we study carefully keep track of the conversations also but the point of the Bhagavatam is to substantiate the substantiate that the message that it is giving its puratana it’s actually ancient the compounding of the voices compounding means it’s like we are compounding the compounding of the voices means the same message is being repeated by this person and then by this person and then by this person the compounding of the message actually drives home the point much stronger and further it takes it points us to a time points us to a the message itself its time is not as important as its as its content we are not concerned about when scripture was said as much as what was said in scripture so if we look at the Bhagavatam itself normally two to three levels of nested conversations are common so that the two most common the two levels are firstly we have the outermost framing conversation in the Bhagavatam that is between Suta Goswami and the sages of Namisharanya which begins from more or less the first chapter of the Bhagavatam itself and goes on till the end of the Bhagavatam then the second level of nested conversation begins from the end of the first canto that is the conversation between Parikshit Maharaj Parikshit Maharaj’s questions start in the second canto and Shukadeva Goswami keeps answering those questions periodically as the questions arise and he is there till almost the half of the twelfth canto he departs towards the end of the half and then the narrative is carried on by Suta Goswami Parikshit Maharaj also leaves his body even before he is met by Takshaka and that way he that conversation ends so there is one framing conversation is Suta Goswami and the sages of Namisharanya which is practically from the start to the end of the Bhagavatam the second framing conversation is from Shukadeva Goswami and Parikshit Maharaj that is from the first canto the end of the second canto starts till the half of the second twelfth canto then there are other framing conversations so there is one of the longest framing conversations within this these two framing conversations is between Vidura and Maitreya that more or less begins in the third canto of Srimad Bhagavatam the third canto describes the how Vidura leaves home on being insulted by Duryodhana and then he meets Maitreya he meets Uddhava who takes him to Maitreya and then Maitreya speaks to Vidura so that is the third the full third and fourth cantos go on with that conversation and within this so this is the third framing conversation this is among the longest among the conversations that are there within the two broad levels of conversations now within that there are further conversations say between Devahuti and Kapila or between Swayambhu Manu and Kardam Muni like that there are many other conversations which are there within this third and fourth cantos and but usually those are direct conversations those are not conversations in which they are quoting someone else so then that conversation will be like the fourth level conversation between Kardam Muni and Kardam Muni and say Swayambhu Manu or whatever now from the fifth canto onwards then it goes back so Vidura Maitreya more or less ends over there and then it goes back to the second level framing conversation that is between Suta Goswami between Sukadeva Goswami and Parikshit Maharaj and these two keep interspersing sometimes Sukadeva Goswami is speaking sometimes Sukadeva Goswami is speaking essentially Sukadeva Goswami is repeating what Sukadeva Goswami has spoken but sometimes the reference goes back to Sukadeva Goswami and sometimes the spotlight goes further back to Suta Goswami that varies now the deepest level of nesting in the conversation happens in the seventh canto in especially chapters three and four especially chapter three more or less so there there are actually six levels of the nested conversation so this is going on second level nesting is Sukadeva Goswami speaking into Parikshit Maharaj and then in regard to the question that is the supreme lord partial does he does he act partially so in that the question is asked so to answer that question Sukadeva Goswami quotes conversation same question that was raised by Yudhishthir Maharaj on seeing the Shishupal attaining liberation so that question is quoted by him so this is the third level nesting here is Yudhishthir and so this actually goes on till almost the end of the seventh canto and then after that there is the within that so he starts telling the story of in response Narguna starts telling the story of Prahlad Maharaj and Narasimhadeva and Hiranyakashipu so when he is telling that story after he picks up the story with the death of Hiranyakashipu and Hiranyakashipu consoling his family members so there Hiranyakashipu tells the story of so now Hiranyakashipu speaking to Hiranyakashipu’s widow and his mother they are that is like the fourth level nesting in the conversation third level is Narguna and Yudhishthir then within that the fifth level nesting happens when Yudhishthir when Hiranyakashipu quotes Yamaraj who comes in the garb of a small boy to console the relatives of a king Suyagya who has been killed on the battlefield and so Yamaraj speaking to the relatives of Suyagya especially his lamenting queens that is the fifth level nesting and within the fifth level nesting there is a sixth level nesting that is Yamaraj quotes narrative of Kulinga birds and how the Kulinga birds because of their attachment they suffer and how they how attachment to temporary relationships causes suffering that is described over there so that is the sixth level nesting and now again there are further nesting of conversations in the tenth canto is more or less directly narration within the two framing narratives and usually within the two framing narratives most of the questions come from the second framing narrative only occasionally the question come from the first framing narrative that is the sages asking that happens say in the first canto wherein before Parikshit Maharaj has been introduced they ask in the first canto speak these past times when they hear about how Kali was torturing a cow they say that speak this if it is related with Lord Krishna because only Lord Krishna activities purifies so usually the sages in Amishari don’t ask questions most of the questions that come either they come within the conversation they come in the frame of the conversation which is being narrated over there so most of the questions come from Parikshit Maharaj now in the another level of nesting which becomes a little complex is in the Uddhava Gita section of the Srimad Bhagavatam so in the Uddhava Gita there is a third level nesting so within Sukadeva Goswami speaking to Parikshit Maharaj there is Krishna speaking to Uddhava and when Krishna speaks to Uddhava he quotes various incidents so sometimes there is he tells the narrative of Pingala or he tells the narrative of especially within one of the longer some narratives within that is he quotes the Bhikshu Gita the Bhikshu Gita is the narration of the Avruddha Brahmana who Shri Jaya Swami identifies with the Tatra so the Avruddha Brahmana is speaking to Maharaj Yadu and he is giving various instructions so that is the again in the 11th canto we have a fourth level nesting that is within Krishna speaking to Uddhava which comes within Parikshit Maharaj within Krishna speaking to Uddhava we have one of Krishna’s manifestations the Tatra the Avruddha Brahmana speaking to Maharaj Yadu and within that speaking Avruddha Brahmana speaking to Maharaj Yadu there is not exactly a nesting there is Pingala’s realisation so Pingala is speaking to herself so generally within that there is no conversation there is just observation and there is realisation of course there is a story of the birds of the bird couple who grieve and lament when the hunter comes and steals away their kills them and kills their offsprings so there the Kapota Kapota Kapoti story is there and there some conversation comes up so that would become like the fifth level nesting so like that if we look at the broad context of the Srimad Bhagavatam generally if we want to understand we don’t need to necessarily understand who is speaking to whom the point is what is being spoken is more important than who is speaking it and to whom it is being spoken so the multiple level of nesting drives home the point that this message is spoken by so many people and it is being reiterated so we are not just expecting the authority of one sage but we are expecting we are actually getting the authoritative message reinforced by so many authorities and essentially when this backward conversation is being traced actually this multiple level of nesting it happens once in the 10th canto also when Parikshit Maharaj asked the question about you know if Krishna this is the chapter prayers of the personified Vedas that he asked the question that how can we understand that if Krishna is transcendental how can his pastimes be how can he be if Brahman is transcendental how can he be perceived by words so there there are two further levels of nesting where firstly this question is asked to the Kumaras and the Kumaras described that this question was asked to Nar Narayan Rishi and Nar Narayan Rishi says that this I will speak what the personified Vedas they spoke to the lord in praise of him so like that there is also five level nesting that happens over there so basically if we this message goes back behind time and the time beyond time of the message that means the timelessness of the message is driven home by its multiple level of nesting and even if we don’t understand the specific context if we understand the content that is enough but if we do want to understand the context also then we need to actually very we can just read through the translations sometimes when we start reading the purports we may just get lost because of the sheer volume and volume of the material that we are reading and we may not be able to figure out who is speaking to whom but if we focus on the translations we can understand the context of what is going on but then we may miss the meaning so it’s a balance and generally over a period of time if we study the Bhagavatam carefully then the content will become internalized and the context will also become evident because we will if the content also is unfamiliar and the context also is complex then we tend to get overwhelmed so in our initial study of the Bhagavatam even if we don’t understand the context as long as we understand the content that is important and as we keep reading the Bhagavatam again and again then when we are familiar with the essential content then we can focus on the context also and try to understand the multiple levels of nesting thank you