How chanting helps us understand ourselves and our mind

[Talk at Bhakti House, Jacksonville, USA]

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So, I’ll speak from the Bhagavad Gita.
In the sixth chapter, Krishna talks about how the mind is within us and how it keeps getting distracted. In 6.26, he says that wherever and whenever the mind wanders, bring it back under the control of the self. So, this is a verse which is very good in general for talking while contemplating while we’re doing chanting, but in general also it applies in Bhakti.
So, there are three concepts which I analyse in this verse. If we look at the mind and look at ourselves, there is something that distracts the mind away from what we are focussing on. There is something that attracts the mind towards what we are focussing on and there is something that distances us from the mind.
So, for example, if we are trying to chant, quite often what happens is that our tongue is uttering the mantra, our mind is wandering and our soul is pondering which to focus on, whether the tongue or the mind. And in general, our senses and our mind are meant to be in sync. That’s when perception happens properly.
Say, right now, if you are hearing something while I’m speaking, suddenly there is some big bang in the background. Then all of the ears, the same ear is there, the mind goes over there and the mind doesn’t hear what I’m speaking, it will hear that sound. So, what happens is the ears are at one place but the mind has gone off to some other place, it’s focussing somewhere else.
So, in general, if the mind and the senses are going on two different tracks, then we can’t concentrate, we can’t focus. And most often for us, actually it is chanting that is meant to, and the process of bhakti in general, it is meant to bring both of them on the same track. But sometimes it is during the process of chanting itself that the two go most off the track.
So, if we are, say, driving through a crowded road, then at that time we are forced to focus because some vehicle may come from here, some passer-by may walk from there. So, the mind doesn’t have the scope to wander because whatever we are doing immediately requires attention. But when we are, say, driving along a clear road, at that time, what we are doing immediately does not require attention so much.
So, that’s why our mind may wander, may think of some conversation we had with someone, some other problem that may be burdening us, some desire that we might be having. So, when, that means there is the spiritual, there’s the mental, and there’s the physical. So, if we consider chanting, then all three levels are involved.
We want to come to the spiritual level of consciousness. If we consider, say, an activity like driving, even then the soul is involved in the sense that the soul is the consciousness, source of the consciousness that is coming in. So, there, the physical and the mental, if the two go off sync, then even materially we can’t function effectively.
I’m studying, but my mind is wandering elsewhere, and basically the mind and the body have gone on two different tracks. So, how do we ensure that the mind and the body come on the same track, the mind and the senses come on the same track? And then, if we are practising bhakti, then we want the mind and the body on the track that Krishna has directed, whether it is directly by chanting, or whether it is by doing some other service to Krishna. We want to be purposefully engaged.
So, for this, as I said, we have to see what it is that the mind wanders towards. What is it that distracts the mind? What is it that attracts the mind? If we want to go in this direction, why is it that we want to go here? And if the mind is wandering, how do we distance ourselves from it, so that we can notice that it is wandering? Physically for us, for the soul, the mind is closer than the senses. So, that’s why for the soul’s consciousness, the mind often can be a greater distractor than the senses.
Now, when we consider the modes of goodness, passion, ignorance, and then transcendence. So, in goodness, there is the perception of both material and spiritual reality. We are aware that we are souls, and there is awareness that there is a body also.
Krishna talks about knowledge in the mode of goodness in 18.20, where he says that, he says that, one who sees that there are various living beings, but in all of them, there is a common spiritual essence. That person has knowledge in the mode of goodness. That means one is not dismissing the material reality.
One can see, this is a woman, this is a man, this is an Indian, this is American, this is tall, this is short. We see that, but we also see something beyond that. So, in the mode of goodness, there is perception of both the material and the spiritual.
So, the mode of goodness would be good for us for focussing on Krishna, whether when we are chanting or at other times. If you are chanting, then the mode of goodness will help us to be aware at least of our material surroundings, and it will also help us to become aware that it is Krishna who is manifesting and to focus on him. In the mode of passion, we focus only on material reality.
Say, you get blinded to spiritual reality and just focus on material reality. When one sees different living beings and one associates their nature with their appearance, this is who they are based on their external appearance. So, then that is material vision.
When we just equate the totality of people with their material appearance or material aspect. So, from the perspective of spirituality, material things, when they consume our consciousness completely, that is the mode of passion. In the mode of ignorance, there is not even proper material perception.
There is only fragmental material perception and there is a lot of imagination. Where one sees one thing to be everything. So, in the mode of passion, we are acting in the physical world.
In the mode of goodness, we think first and act later. In the mode of ignorance, we just get caught in the mental world, but not in the sense of thoughtfully planning something, but just zoning out or what we say, spacing out, just wandering with the mind wherever it is going, not aware of anything properly. So, if we consider this point, then Krishna is saying that wherever the mind wanders, bring it back.
So, he acknowledges that the mind will wander and he doesn’t expect from us that our mind should not wander. But what he says is, get the mind back. So, if we understand that our minds in general are in the modes of passion and ignorance.
So, we ourselves may get carried away by those. The mind obsesses on material reality or sometimes it just goes off on an imagination based on some material perception. Oh, this person spoke like this.
Therefore, he must be like this. She must be like that. She’s done like that.
I’ll do like this and just go off on a revenge fantasy or whatever. So, at that time, the mind is not even perceiving material reality properly. So, unfortunately for us, when we are trying to chant, because there is not much physical activity to do.
There is nothing very interesting happening at the physical level. So, now the idea of the repetition of the mantra is that it should help us raise our consciousness upwards to the spiritual level. But instead, if our consciousness doesn’t get linked, so the soul is here, the mind is here, the body is here, the tongue is uttering the mantra.
But if we don’t find that chanting very interesting at a physical level, the same sound going on and on, then the mind doesn’t stay over here. The mind goes somewhere else. And because there is nothing urgent or pressing to get the mind back here.
So, therefore, it goes off for a very long time. So, sometimes what happens is the mind says, you chant, I will wander. The ritual of uttering the mantra goes on, but the mind goes everywhere.
Now, when the mind is just wandering off, we have two alternatives. Either we can get the mind back. Now, getting to the physical level is also not bad.
Say, if you are sitting and you are trying to chant, the mind is wandering everywhere. It is getting up and walking. Because walking involves some physical activity.
And while walking, we have to look, okay, where am I going? Am I colliding with something? Am I going to slip on something? So, that doesn’t necessarily take our consciousness to the spiritual level, but at least gets it out of the wandering that is happening at the mental level. And then, if there are some physical stimuli around us which remind us of Krishna, there are deities, there are pictures, there are other devotees, then that can also help us to bring our consciousness back towards the holy way. So, what distracts us from Krishna? So, you may say, my mind is wandering here, there, everywhere.
That’s okay. The mind’s nature is to wander. But if instead of just getting irritated that the mind is wandering, or just getting exhausted and letting the mind go wherever it wants, if we, after the japa is over, look back and think, okay, where did my mind wander? It may have wandered over a hundred places, but it does not stay at all the hundred places for the same time.
It may wander to one, two, three places and stay for a long time over there. What about this? What about that? What about that? At some places, it wanders quite a bit and stays. Some places, it doesn’t stay that much.
So, we can understand that these two, three things where the mind wanders, they are my primary attachments. Attachment need not be in a negative sense. It can be in a negative sense or just an objective sense, whatever it is.
But, okay, this is where my mind is getting distracted. And then, if we use our intelligence to address, okay, my mind was worried about my job. Okay, I was worried, what if I lose my job? What if I don’t get this? What if this? What is that? Then, if we, later in the day, when we are relatively in the mode of goodness, sit down and address that concern.
Okay, I’m worried about my job. Okay, what have I done? I’ve done one, two, three, four, five. I’ve done these things.
And this is what is my power to do. And I’ve done it. There’s no need to obsess over it anymore.
So, sometimes we see that if I’m not able to concentrate on my chanting, then my chanting is just a waste of time. What is the use? But, it is not necessarily, even if we are not able to concentrate, still, just the fact that we are, if we introspect and understand where our mind is going, we come to know of our attachments. And then, if we work on those attachments, in the sense of analysing them, processing them with our intelligence, then, next day, when the mind starts going in that direction, maybe before chanting or the previous night before sleeping, we just read through.
Okay, I’ve done the one, two, three, four, five. I’ve taken care of this. Then, when the mind starts wandering, we have something with which to pull the mind back.
Otherwise, just if we say willpower, the mind should not wander. The willpower is fine, but when the mind is going towards a particular mode of distraction, then we need a more customised weapon for that. So, that particular worry, that particular craving, that particular fear that is there, we can pull it back from there, if we have prepared ourselves.
So, in that sense, the, so, chanting, even through the distraction in chanting, it can help us to understand ourselves better. So, if we see chanting simply as a sound in which I am going to focus on Krishna, and sometimes you feel, I’m just not focussing on Krishna, what is the use of it? But chanting, by chanting, we will ultimately focus on Krishna. But chanting can also be seen as a tool for self-reflection, for self-understanding.
Okay, so, these are the issues that I need to work on. So, we get to understand our mind and its attachments better. And that can not just help us to move closer towards Krishna, but can help us actually improve the overall quality of our life, because these attachments do affect us in other situations also.
So, this is what distracts us, we analyse it objectively, and then we try to process it and have the processed content ready so that we can pull the mind back when it distracts. Now, what attracts the mind towards Krishna? Basically, there is two things, there is our intention and our intelligence. We have decided that my life is, I’m going to be a devotee of Krishna, so I’m going to do this bhakti.
But intention is there. And along with that, intelligence is there. That okay, this is important for me.
Of course, the intelligence and intention are not unrelated. But this, for analytical purposes, we can say that this is the intention and this is the intelligence which can help me to move towards the intention. We may just, because we have decided I’m going to chant, so every day we just wake up and whenever we find time, we chant.
But we may not be consciously exercising the intelligence at that time. Why am I doing this? So, one is using the intelligence to process the distractions, but the other is using the intelligence to streamline the attractions, to focus. Okay, why am I doing this? And in this, if there are some things which can help the mind also to be attracted to Krishna, say for example, if a particular favourite picture of the deities that we like, or there is some special pastime of Krishna that we like to, which we feel connected with, then having a picture of that before us, or having a picture of our spiritual master, or anything which emotionally connects us with some aspect of Krishna.
The mind’s power is largely through emotions, just makes us feel this is good, this is bad, and pulls us. And we do have to counter the emotionality with the rationality. But if we can use even the emotionality against the mind’s emotionality, then it becomes easier to fight.
So, some devotees just maybe love the Shiksha Ashtakam, just recite a verse before singing, before chanting, or if there’s some other verse, just recite in a sweet musical way, after three, four rounds, take a little break, and recite it. Okay, this is so sweet, this is the Lord that I’m calling out. So, we have to find out what is it that attracts us towards Krishna.
Even in our own lives, this answer will not be fixed. When we start bhakti, there may be one reason why we’re attracted to Krishna. Five years down the line, it means something different.
Ten years down the line, it means something different. So, we have to find out what is it that makes me want to go on this path, and then we keep that in a conscious awareness. Then, that will give us the impetus to move onwards.
And lastly, if we consider that what can distance us from the mind, even with all this, the mind distracts me, this is where I want to go, but this is where I tend to go. It’s vital that we be able to, when the mind starts saying something, we distance ourselves from it. Now, there are many ways to distance ourselves.
Krishna talks about, in the 14th chapter, the sakshi bhava and the seva bhava. Sakshi is witness, seva is service. So, he says two ways to deal with the mind.
In 14.22 and 23, he says that just become an observer of what is happening in the mind. Whatever emotions come in the mind, just observe them. They’re going to come, they’re going to stay, they’re going to go.
Now, it is sometimes that some bad thoughts come in our mind, some negative thoughts, some thoughts which are spiritually actually unbeneficial, they come in our mind. And sometimes we try to fight with them. I shouldn’t be thinking like this, but that fighting takes a lot of energy.
There are some thoughts we don’t want, but they are there. So, what do we do with them? If we start fighting with them, that consumes our energy and usually it’s very difficult to fight thoughts away. So, suppose say we have an old car which we want to sell, but there is no opening for selling the car for the next one month.
Now, we don’t like that car very much. Maybe we have got a new car which we can use, but that car is still there in our garage. Now, if we just say this car is so ugly, why is it there? If we get fed up with that and we break the car, we try to get rid of the car, that’s only going to damage.
So, we may not want it there, but we accept it is there. That doesn’t mean we start using it. So, like that, there may be some unwanted thoughts that are there in the mind.
But if we start battling with them, I shouldn’t be thinking like this. The mind is so cunning that sometimes we have doubts about Krishna. And then, so first the mind plants the doubts, you know, maybe does this Krishna really exist, does chanting really work? And then the same mind plants guilt.
Hey, we should not be having doubts like this. So, both ways what the mind is doing is distracting us about sometimes we just have anxiety about something. And then we have anxiety about the anxiety.
I am worried, I should not be worried. Why am I worried? So, I get worried about my worry. So, basically, when we try to battle with what is present in the mind, then we are fighting a losing battle.
Because what is there in the mind, it is there. And trying to fight it out is like trying to say, you know, fight air out of, push air out of a room. Can’t create a vacuum.
Even if we create a vacuum, form a small hole with it, little air will come in. So, when boredom, annoyance, irritation, anger, fear, all whatever emotions are there, if we try to fight with them and try to push them away and then I will focus on Krishna, then that will dissipate our energy entirely. So, one is that we just get along with those emotions and go away.
We become fearful. The other is we become angry about having that fear. We become annoyed with having that fear.
But instead, if we just accept it is there, right, I am not going to focus on it. So, instead of saying that the thought about fear, the emotion of fear is present in my consciousness, I note it and I move on. It’s like sometimes we are busy, we have to go somewhere urgently, and we pass somebody on the way.
We just nod at them and we keep walking. We nod at them, we don’t stop to talk with them. Because if we stop, then we will talk and we will get late.
At the same time, if you don’t nod, you know, maybe they will be annoyed and they will come right in the middle. Hey, I want to talk with you. So, you just nod and then they also get it.
Okay, we are busy, we will move on. So, like that, if some emotion is present, okay, acknowledge it is there. I don’t have to necessarily do anything about it.
So, if we could just identify that emotion, rather than identify with that emotion, rather than becoming fearful, okay, fear is there within me and I have worry about this. But, okay, this worry is present in the mind, but it’s not that I am worried, the worry is present in my mind. So, if we just note it and move on.
It may have to be dealt with and we will deal with it later. But right now, let me move on in my process of chanting towards Krishna. So, there is the sakshi bhava, means we become observers.
Now, when we are observers, it actually requires a very high level of mode of goodness to just observe and not identify. But if we have some purpose, which is the service of Krishna, then that focus on the service, okay, yeah, I observe it, I note it, I get it, move on. I don’t focus on it.
We can’t be entirely apathetic observers. So, in English, there are two words, disinterested and uninterested. Disinterested means impartial, one who has no vested interest in what is happening.
Uninterested means uninterested means one who just doesn’t care. I have no interest in this. Suppose a cricket match is going on and this umpire is supposed to make decisions.
The umpire should be disinterested, not uninterested. Otherwise, the bowler moans and the field team appeals, that’s out. The umpire says, oh, I didn’t see the ball.
If the referee says that, that won’t work. Referee has to be aware. But then just because the players are appealing vociferously, doesn’t mean that the umpire has to accept.
The umpire has to evaluate the appeal based on merit. The umpire has to be disinterested, but not uninterested. Similarly for us, okay, this emotion has come, it’s there, and I may have to deal with it.
So, we are not for that emotion, we are not against that emotion. Just observe that emotion. And later on, what I need to do, I’ll do with it.
Just like when players are appealing, it is not that all the appeals the umpire has to affect, except not that all the appeals the umpire has to reject, umpire has to evaluate on merit. So, like that, we may also evaluate our emotions based on merit. But at that point, okay, now let’s move on.
If somebody wants to meet, I will meet and talk with you. Say, okay, can you call me later? We will fix a time later. Right now I’m busy.
So, like that, sometimes some emotions come, we don’t reject them, because rejecting them means we are putting our energy over there. Accepting them also means we are putting our energy. But if we just acknowledge and move on.
So, this distancing from the mind is something which can help us to become again more self-aware. If we see chanting primarily as a tool for connecting with Krishna, then sometimes we feel, you know, maybe with kirtan I can connect better with Krishna. Maybe by studying scripture I’m able to connect better with Krishna.
By worshipping deities I’m able to connect better with Krishna. So, we feel, you know, is this chanting in the Yuga Dharma, is it really, is it really bringing about the transformation for me? But if we see chanting not just as a tool for connecting with Krishna, of course not a tool, the holy name is Krishna himself at one level, but we don’t have that realisation. But if we see that chanting will not only introduce us to Krishna, it also introduces us to ourselves and introduces us to our mind.
Then, even when we are distracted, we won’t be frustrated. We will see even the phases of distraction as opportunities for self-understanding. So, okay, whenever the mind gets hooked to something and it goes off somewhere, as soon as we realise it has been hooked, get it, okay, this is what happens.
Sometimes it may get hooked and go off for maybe a few mantras, sometimes it may go off for a few rounds, but as soon as we realise, we get it back, we get it back. And so, for us to go towards the spiritual, sometimes we need to get out of our mind and get into our body. So, if our mind is doing too much, then get into the body, just walk somewhere, look at some lady’s picture, do something physical to get out of the mind and into the body, and through the body we go towards Krishna.
And sometimes we’ve been doing just too much at the bodily level, we just come running here, running there, we just come back and now we have to complete some japa. So, at that time, again, if we just keep walking, keep doing physical activity, then that physical activity takes us Sometimes you need to get out of the body, into the mind, into the mental level, introspective level, and from there we go to the spiritual level. So, rather than seeing the physical, mental, and spiritual as sequential, we see the physical and the mental both as ways to the spiritual, and see what works at what time.
And that’s why if we make, if we become rigid about practises, rather than about principles, then sometimes we find that it just becomes a labour. If I decide, I’m going to sit and chant all my 16 rounds sitting down at one place, then it may happen I sit down, but my mind keeps wandering. Or I sit down and just go to sleep.
If I decide, okay, I’m going to chant all 16 rounds walking, but sometimes just walking causes too much wandering. So, there is, there is the practise, and there is the purpose of the practise. So, if we don’t understand the purpose, and don’t focus on the purpose, then the practise may not serve the purpose much.
And then we start feeling the practise itself is pointless. But if we see the practise in the light of the purpose, then we can adjust the practise appropriately. Sometimes, chanting softly may help us to concentrate.
Sometimes, chanting loudly may help us to concentrate. Sometimes, we may find that when we are chanting, just sometimes the mind wanders so much that we need a break. I’m just trying to sit and chant at that time.
It’s just a waste of time. Maybe we take a little break. We’re too tired, take a little nap or do something which gets the mind off the chariot and then we chant.
So, rather than focussing on particular practises, we focus on the purpose and see what practise serves that purpose. Then we will be able to move purposefully towards connecting with Krishna through the process of chanting. So, I’ll summarise what I spoke.
I spoke about the Bhagavad Gita. Whenever the mind wanders, bring it back. So, I talked about in the process of bhakti, especially in the process of chanting, three factors.
Understanding what distracts the mind from Krishna, what attracts the mind towards Krishna and what distances ourselves from our mind. So, when the mind is distracted, rather than seeing that as our chanting time has been wasted, we can see that even the distraction is an opportunity for self-understanding. So, normally for effective functioning, the soul, mind and body have to be on the same track.
When there is no physically demanding situation, then the mind and the body tend to go off track and it’s like when we are driving on a clear road. So, in chanting, because there’s nothing stimulating at the physical level and because we don’t find the spiritual sufficiently stimulating, so the mind just goes off anywhere. And that’s why chanting can be the time when our mind seems to wander more than the rest of the day also.
So, because the mind feels neither physical nor spiritual or stimulating. It’s only at the mental level only it finds up stimulation. So, in goodness, we perceive material and spiritual reality.
In passion, we perceive only the material reality which you want to control and enjoy. In ignorance, we just go off in a, not even the fragmental material reality we perceive and from that we go into imagination or daydreaming or fantasising. So, chanting, which is meant to take us to transcendence, frequently ends up taking us into ignorance because our mind goes off into some fantasy drive based on some small thing which we’ve seen here or there.
So, if we consciously analyse what we were distracted towards and then address those concerns like writing down or noting or introspecting and then have that as a ready resource when the mind wanders, we’ll have greater impetus to pull our mind back. And we have to find out what it is that inspires us to move towards Krishna. There’s our intention, there’s our intelligence, but the intellectual conviction, the specific content of that conviction will vary according to time, place, circumstance.
Along with that, if we find some emotional connect with Krishna, that something, the mind through its emotions takes us away from Krishna. So, if we can find some emotional connection with Krishna, that helps us to better combat with the mind. And to distance ourselves from the mind, we have to learn to accept the mind state without acceding to it or succumbing to it.
If we try to change the mind state, like if I have a car which I’m not able to sell, if I focus on trying to sell it right now, I just waste my energy. But that doesn’t mean I have to accept the car and I have to drive everywhere in that car only. So, we accept, okay, there is this emotion in the mind and we don’t try to fight it off, nor do we embrace it.
We just allow it to be present and move on. Like we nod at someone while we are in a hurry and just move on our way. So, we become disinterested but not uninterested observers of our emotions.
And this observer becoming observer becomes easier when we are also becoming a follower. We are following Krishna, trying to serve Krishna. And later on, the mind’s particular emotions can also be processed as is appropriate.
It’s like we can tell somebody who wants to meet, we’ll meet later. So, at the time of chanting, if we see chanting not just as a means of connecting with Krishna, but also as a means of understanding ourselves and understanding our mind, then even if we are not able to concentrate, still our chanting can help us to grow spiritually. Thank you very much.
Any questions or comments? You had mentioned the Sakshi and Seva, right? So, how can we use the Seva principle to attract the mind while we are chanting? Or is it possible or is it not? Yeah, so how can we use the Seva principle for chanting? If we understand that this is the same Krishna who is my Lord, who is coming over here as the holy name, that Lord who is unmanifest has now become manifest as the sound of the holy name. In the form of mantra, he has come. Then by my attention, I can have an opportunity to serve him.
So, that can inspire us to have some service attitude. Or if you remember that you’ve taken some initiation vows to serve the holy name, serve Krishna through the holy name, that can also inspire the service attitude within us. That we’ve taken a vow to the spiritual master, that can also inspire a service attitude.
So, the mind is fickle, but we don’t have to necessarily give in to its fickleness. What we have to do is, the fickleness of the mind may require us to change the practise. But if we don’t see that the practise is meant for a purpose, then the mind’s resistance to a particular practise makes us want to abandon the purpose itself.
Our purpose is to serve Krishna. If this practise is not working, okay, let me see what practise works, and let me keep serving Krishna. Chanting this way doesn’t work, let me chant this way.
And let me move onwards towards Krishna. So, the service attitude is what gives the basic impetus for us to move towards Krishna through chanting, and specifically how we can apply it, that we’ll have to see in time, place, circumstance. I have a couple of questions.
Do you think that the holy name itself is, like this is Krishna’s reciprocation, that our fears, or our feelings, our attachments are being revealed to us, and we can see it that way, that even though I’m not going to deal with it right now, rather than shaming myself or trying to ignore it, I could say, well, maybe, perhaps Krishna’s actually trying to show me what I need to see. And that’s arising while I’m chanting. Do you think that, or do you think it’s… Okay.
Yeah. So can we say that during our chanting, Krishna is revealing our attachments to us, so that distractions that are coming in the mind, can you see that Krishna is arranging for those distractions to come? Well, so that we can deal with them later. So that we can deal with them later.
I would say that, in general, with respect to the thoughts that come in our mind, it is very difficult to know where they come from. What is more important is where they are taking us. So, even when some idea comes in my mind, comes inside me, is it coming from my mind? Is it coming from my intelligence? Is it coming from my ego? Is it coming from the Paramatma? How do I know that? It’s very, very difficult to know.
So the soundest operating principle would be, look at the fruit. Parichaya is introduction. So phala is fruit.
So we actually, we get introduced to the nature of something by its fruit. So I have to see, is this taking me towards Krishna or is it taking me away from Krishna? So if during chanting some thought comes up, and then later on, that thought helps us to understand ourselves better. And then that self-understanding helps us move closer towards Krishna.
We can see that it was Krishna’s arrangement. It helped me to move towards Krishna. But that causes us the next day to be eager to observe our distractions.
So we are not so eager to observe Krishna, but we are eager to observe our distractions to find what is going to be revealed now. Then that may misdirect us from Krishna. So we, whatever happens, we use in Krishna’s service, whenever it’s possible for us.
And it is of course possible also that Krishna can speak to us through our emotions also. And it is not just the positive emotions. Krishna speaks to us through the tears that we get in bhakti.
So the joy we get in deity worship, or the sublime sweetness we experience in kirtans, or some divine presence we feel when we go to a holy dham. So Krishna can speak through those positive emotions, but Krishna can speak through us, even through our fear, even through our anger, even through our desires. But what exactly is he speaking through those things? It may just be that it is meant to help us realise our finiteness realise our conditioning, conditioned nature, and realise that we can’t overcome these without him.
So in that sense, if becoming aware of even the negative emotions in us makes us feel the need for Krishna more, then that is fine. And also one more way, Krishna could be speaking something to us is also that we all have a particular nature. The body has a particular nature, the mind has a particular nature.
So it’s like some people, when they’re exposed to cold, they just get cough and runny nose very quickly. Some other people, they’re not so troubled by that. So now, this is, we could say this is just because of our past karma or whatever, but we have to be aware of it because that’s the way our body functions.
And now is it conditioning? Well, it is, but that’s that I have to be aware of it so that I can I can serve Krishna without exposing myself to stimuli which cause me cold. So just as we understand that we have a particular body natures, which we have to learn to live with. Similarly, we also have our mental natures, which we learn to live with.
So if certain situations causes fear, certain situations causes anger. So rather than simply becoming either becoming fearful or angry or becoming guilty, why I’m becoming fearful or angry, or whatever desires, we can see that, okay, this is the limitation of my mind. This is this is where I am a little vulnerable.
And I need to be aware of this. So some people can, can actually some people blossom when they have deadlines, just feel the fire coming out, I have to do this. Some people when deadlines, they fall dead before the line.
They just get so much tension because of the deadline. So then, for them, maybe it’s better that they become more organised and plan things in advance so that they do things well before the deadline. But some people, they just can’t get done things without deadlines.
Now, deadlines themselves are not good or bad. And that person one person’s collapsing and other person’s delaying. That’s also not necessarily good or bad.
It’s just the way our mind is. So then I have to understand this is the way my mind is. And this is the way this is what I need to do to function.
So somebody who gets crumbles under pressure, that person has to plan proactively so that they don’t put themselves in too much pressure situations. Sometimes, of course, pressure will come inevitably, and we have to deal with it. And some people who work well with deadlines, they may have a tendency to just push things till the deadline.
But there are some things which just need to be done regularly. So if we are aware, if we see our mind’s emotions also as indications of the nature of the mental machine that we have, and then we adapt ourselves accordingly. So we could say that Krishna is revealing our mind’s nature to us through the emotions so that we can use that machine better.
So that could also be seen as because the self is ultimately the soul, but presently the self is almost a composite body, mind and soul. So we can’t really realise the soul without adequately realising the body and the mind, understanding at least their nature. So that way also we can say that Krishna is speaking to us through our emotions.
There’s one more question you said? It was related to the last statement you made. Basically, I was thinking, is becoming an observer of the mind, without allowing it to distract us or guilt us or shame us while we’re chanting, but perhaps we have things to take care of later. Is that really allowing ourselves to be personalists? Because I feel like if we are just trying to ignore everything that comes up, or every feeling that comes up, and say, you know, no, I’m a spirit soul, I shouldn’t be feeling that way, or you know, that actually that’s an impersonalist tendency, because like what you’re saying, the self at this point is integrated, it’s soul, mind and body.
And so if we’re ignoring the mind and body, and just saying, I need to just be a soul, that could actually be an impersonalist tendency? Yeah, good point. So if we just neglect the emotions of the mind, and think I should act simply as a soul, is that we’re being impersonalist? Because the personality right now is a composite of the body, mind, soul. Yeah, definitely.
If somebody is sick, and say somebody else goes, you know, I love your soul, but I don’t care for your body. That won’t work. If somebody is sick, we have to help them at the level of the body also.
There are incidents when Prabhupada himself was very caring. There was one time when Prabhupada was actually seeing Guru Puja in Mayapur with hundreds of devotees coming and offering flowers. One devotee came limping, and Prabhupada actually went to him and called him and asked him what happened.
And Prabhupada prescribed some some lape, some kind of medicine which he could make at home and apply. And so Prabhupada cared for the body, mind and soul, a complete unit. So we… Now when we talk about being personalists, there is always a difficult question that how much of our present personality is coming from the soul’s personality and how much is present is a conditioned personality.
But it really doesn’t matter at this stage because whatever personality we have right now, that is the personality with which we are going to serve Krishna. Recently I was asked this question that if pure devotees are beyond the modes, then where does their nature come from? Is their present nature, present nature of pure devotees the soul’s nature, the soul’s nature or is it the nature of their body-mind? So I said when pure devotees transcended the modes, that transcending is in terms of intention. That the modes don’t determine the desires of a pure devotee.
But the body and the mind is the tool with which the pure devotee is going to execute the desire. So a devotee may desire to speak about Krishna. That desire is not affected by the modes.
I’m talking about pure devotee. But how that devotee speaks about Krishna will naturally be affected by the body-mind that they have. When Srila Prabhupada was in Mumbai, a prominent Hindu leader who was from South India.
He was a Hindu leader. So he came and met Prabhupada. He was a Hindu Mahasaya, political leader more of.
Swamiji, he says you pronounce Sanskrit in a very Bengali way. What can I do? I’m from Bengal. So now Prabhupada is speaking Krishna’s message.
But obviously that Krishna’s message, when he is speaking it, it is going to come through his body. So we say that Prabhupada said that Krishna wrote my books. Krishna wrote the books.
But does that mean that Prabhupada did not write the books? If only Krishna wrote the books, then Prabhupada could have put Krishna as author of the books. Prabhupada put his name as author of the books. So that means that there is a dynamic reciprocation between Krishna and Prabhupada.
Krishna gave the message and Prabhupada expressed it. Otherwise, we would have the idea that through Prabhupada’s books, we can know only about Krishna and nothing about Prabhupada. Because Prabhupada’s personality is not there in the book at all.
But in that way of the case, then you can see Prabhupada’s style of writing is very different from Bhaktasahana’s style of writing, which is very different from Bhakta and Thakura’s style of writing. And all of them we consider as pure devotees. If Krishna has written through all of them, why their writing style is different? It is because Krishna is, the intention is pure.
They all want to glorify Krishna. But they all have a particular body mind through which they are expressing their intention. So even with respect to pure devotees, we see their personality is pure in the sense that it is purely intended to serve Krishna.
But it may not be pure exactly in terms of Bhaktasahana and Thakura, not known particularly as a very good musician. When kirtans would be there, he would ask others to sing kirtans. Prabhupada’s English pronunciation was not all that good.
English grammar was not all that good sometimes. But that doesn’t matter. Because his intention was to serve Krishna.
So we could see that this is just their lila. Krishna could have made them entirely perfect in every way. Krishna chose to do it in a particular way.
Whatever way we see it. But the point is that we respect and love them as they are right now, as they have manifested in this world. So similarly, rather than worrying about whether a particular personality trait is spiritual or material, we understand this is the way I am and this is the way this person is.
So then if I have to serve, then this is the tool with which I have to serve. If I have to work with this person, this is the tool with which I have to work with this person. So yes, acknowledging the kind of body and mind with its particular quirks, with its particular idiosyncrasies, with its particular tendencies, that is actually being personal.
Some devotees, yes, when they meet, they just like to hug each other. Some devotees, they just stay at a distance. Don’t hug me.
They don’t like to touch. If I just try to touch and hug a devotee who doesn’t like that, then I may say I am showing affection. But that devotee will say, you are imposing, don’t do this.
So I have to customise. So that way, I would say, yes, it’s being personal, acknowledging the body, mind and the particular emotions that come from that, and then moulding our actual execution of things accordingly. That’s being personal.
Okay, thank you.