How devotion transcends the caste system and other institutional hierarchies

[Bhagavatam class on 1.18.19 at ISKCON, Los Angeles, USA]

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
With His Divine Grace, Abhaya Charanarvinda Bhaktivedanta Swamishla Prabhupada Ki, Ananta Koti Vaishnav Vrinda Ki, Granth Raj Shrimad Bhagavatam Ki, Gaur Premanande, Hari Hari Mohana. Granth Raj Shrimad Bhagavatam, Canto 10, Canto 1, Chapter 18, Text 19.
Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahat Gunatvadhyamanantamahu Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahat Gunatvadhyamanantamahu Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahat Gunatvadhyamanantamahu Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahat Gunatvadhyamanantamahu Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahat Gunatvadhyamanantamahu Vaishnavism Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Kuta Punar Granato Namatasya Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Yonanta Shaktir Bhagwanananto Mahatmaikanta Parayanasya Kutah What to say? Punah Again Granatah One who chants Nam Holy Name Tasya His Mahatama Great devotees Ekanta Exclusive Parayanasya Of one who takes shelter of Yeha He who Ananta In the unlimited Shakti Potency Bhagwan The personality of Godhead Anantah Immeasurable Mahat Great Gunatvad On account of such attributes Yam Whom Anantam By the name Ananta Ahu Is called Dhvijabandhu By His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swamishlal Prabhupada Translation And what to speak of those who are under the direction of the great devotees, chanting the holy name of the unlimited, who has unlimited potency? The personality of Godhead, unlimited in potency and transcendental by attributes, is called the Anantah, unlimited. Purport The Dhvijabandhu or the less intelligent, uncultured men, born of higher caste, put forward many arguments against the lower caste men becoming Brahmanas in this life. They argue that birth in a family of Shudras or less than Shudras is made possible by one’s previous sinful acts, and that one therefore has to complete the terms of disadvantages due to lower birth.
And to answer these false logicians, Srimad Bhagavatam asserts that one who chants the holy name of the Lord under the direction of a pure devotee can at once get free from the disadvantages due to a lower caste birth. A pure devotee of the Lord does not commit any offence while chanting the holy name of the Lord. There are ten different offences in the chanting of the holy name of the Lord.
To chant the holy name under the direction of a pure devotee is offenceless chanting. Offenceless chanting of the holy name of the Lord is transcendental, and therefore such chanting can at once purify one from the effects of all kinds of previous sins. This offenceless chanting indicates that one has fully understood the transcendental nature of the holy name and has thus surrendered unto the Lord.
Transcendentally, the holy name of the Lord and the Lord himself are identical, being absolute. The holy name of the Lord is as powerful as the Lord. The Lord is the all-powerful personality of Godhead, and He has innumerable names, which are all non-different from Him, and are equally powerful also.
In the last word of the Bhagavad Gita, the Lord asserts that one who surrenders fully unto Him is protected from all sins by the grace of the Lord. Since His name and He himself are identical, the holy name of the Lord can protect the devotee from all effects of sins. The chanting of the holy name of the Lord can undoubtedly deliver one from the disadvantages of a lower caste birth.
The Lord’s unlimited power is extended on and on by the unlimited expansion of the devotees and Incarnations, and thus every devotee of the Lord and Incarnations also can be equally surcharged with the potency of the Lord. Since the devotee is surcharged with the potency of the Lord even fractionally, the disqualification due to lower birth cannot stand in the way. Swami Itinamine Namaste Saraswati Devi Gauravani Pracharine Nirvishesha Shunyavadi Pashchatya Deshatarine Vanchakal Patarubhyascha Krupasindhubhyaevacha Patitanampavanebhyo Vaishnavebhyo Namo Namaha Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nityananda Shri Advaita Gadadhara Shri Vasadhi Gaurabhakta Vrinda Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Krishna I am honoured to be here at the lotus feet of Pune Dwarkadheesh, the auspicious month of Kartik.
I seek the blessings of all the senior Vaishnavas that I can speak something today on the topic of the glory of devotion. So I will speak on this topic of how devotion trumps, maybe not trumps, devotion transcends all hierarchies. So I will speak this in three distinct parts.
First is why hierarchies exist? And second is how devotion takes us beyond hierarchies? And thirdly, how devotion empowers us to act within the hierarchies wherever we are? So here the setting is that Shukadeva Goswami is being asked, is going to be asked to come and speak the Srimad Bhagavatam. And we see in both the personalities who are speaking the Srimad Bhagavatam. It is Shukadeva Goswami speaking to Parichit Maharaj.
It is Suta Goswami speaking to the sages of Naimisharanya. In both cases we see normal hierarchies are being inverted. Shukadeva Goswami is far younger, youngest among this august assembly of exalted sages.
And yet it is he who is given the respected position of being asked to speak. Suta Goswami is also younger than Shravanak Rishi. Suta Goswami is also not as high born.
And thus you could say from a perspective of hierarchy there is a disadvantage. And yet those who are disadvantaged within that hierarchy are given this position to speak. Thus placing them in a sense at the top of the hierarchy.
So this is being appreciated here in the Srimad Bhagavatam. In the previous verse he said that, because I associated with great souls like Shukadeva Goswami and heard from him, so although I am unqualified still I can speak. And in this verse he says, if somebody instead of associating goes further and chants, this association itself is purifying, but association with those who are practising bhakti is purifying.
Engagement in bhakti by chanting the holy names is even more purifying. So then surely whatever material disqualifications might be there, they will be overcome, they will be transcended by the potency of bhakti. So let’s look at these three points why hierarchy exists.
So Prabhupada quotes the purvapaksha, the opposing party over here. And he says that if somebody is born in a low birth, somebody has a high birth, that’s not arbitrary. That may seem discriminatory from this life’s perspective.
In today’s world we might not think of birth as a very big definer in a person’s life. Today we are moving more towards egalitarianism. But even a few centuries ago and even now in many parts of the world, where a person is born, to a large extent that determines the trajectory of their life.
So it is not just in India where the caste system was there, but even in Europe where there was another version of the caste system. If somebody was born in royalty or in aristocracy, or somebody was born among the common people, their lives would be very different and it would be very difficult to move up and down in the hierarchy. What is so much the dream of people today? Upward mobility.
There’s very little facility for upward mobility in the past. So we could say if somebody is born, somebody has a low birth, that’s a big, big disadvantage. And it might seem discriminatory.
But the broader philosophical worldview helps us understand that the hierarchy has a purpose. That it is if somebody is born low in a hierarchy, that is probably a result of some actions that they have done in the past. So if somebody is born wealthy, somebody is born in an illustrious family, somebody is born with great intelligence.
Janma, Aishwarya, Shuta, Shri Bheer. These are four broad things which we get from birth. The family which you are born, the wealth of that family, and then Shuta, the learning, the intelligence, you may say somebody can cultivate that and that’s true to some extent.
But we are all born with a certain intellectual level, a certain IQ. And that to a large extent determines our capacity, how much we can learn. And Shri Bheer, of course, our looks.
We can’t really change that much, even with all kinds of plastic surgeries. It’s a limitation of what we can do. So to a large extent, the birth is very consequential.
And with respect to birth, there are hierarchies. So now these hierarchies, when they are there, they are for a purpose. The position in our hierarchy is, in any hierarchy, is a result of what we have done in the past.
And to some extent, hierarchies are good. Egalitarianism, equality has great appeal today. But functionally, it is not always the best.
Suppose now after this baklas, we have prasad. There’s no suppose, prasad will be there. But suppose we had to cook prasad.
Am I audible to everyone? Sometimes I tend to speak very fast or too softly. I’m audible? Okay. A little fast? Okay, sir.
Thank you. So, thank you. So, hierarchies are important for functioning effectively.
Say, if food has to be cooked. And we say everybody has equal rights to cook in the kitchen. That’s fine.
But if somebody knows better than others how to cook, then let them take the lead. And everybody will get good food by that. If we consider competence, not everybody has equal competence.
So, if those who are at a higher level of competence, if they are given the leading positions, then everybody benefits by that. So, hierarchies serve a purpose. Similarly, if somebody is born, say, in a Brahmin family, what that means is that they have done some good karma in the past.
And by that they have certain qualities, they have certain tendencies. And those can be used for the good of all of society. So, if Brahmanas, if those with virtue are situated at the top in the social hierarchy, then they can benefit the whole society.
So, hierarchies do serve a purpose. They result from our past actions. And they can create a structure by which society can function smoothly.
However, every hierarchy tends towards tyranny. Towards tyranny. Where those who are top in the hierarchy, tend to become possessive, exploitative, abusive.
And when that happens, there is a rebellion. So, that’s what happened with the Varanashram in India. It was meant to actually be an effective division of social labour.
But unfortunately, what happened was that the Brahmanas became very privilege conscious. And Prabhupada says that the Brahmanas are meant to do two functions. One is that they are meant to speak spiritual knowledge and raise the consciousness of everyone in society.
And in the reciprocation to that, the Brahmanas are given Dakshina, some charity. One major form of charity is Brahman Bhojan. They are given food.
So, they speak spiritual knowledge and they take food, they take Prasad. So, he says, ritualistic Brahmanas do only the second function. And forget the first.
So, they are very good at coming in rituals and taking the charity, taking food. But they don’t give spiritual knowledge. So, then people start feeling, why should I offer you so much honour? What are you doing actually? So, when the hierarchies are based not on competence, but simply on dominance, because I am at the top, so you have to bow down to me.
Then they become oppressive. And if somebody who is at the bottom of the hierarchy, if that person is more competent, then they need to be given the chance to come on the top. And that is what Bhakti Yoga does.
When I speak in universities, often this question comes up. If I quote the Bhagavad Gita, people ask, doesn’t the Bhagavad Gita talk about the caste system? I was speaking in MIT a year ago. So, there was a professor of Islamic studies.
He had come and he said that, no, you are talking about this Bhagavad Gita, but in today’s world, the caste system is what India is infamous for all over the world. And the Bhagavad Gita supports the caste system. So, how can you teach that in today’s world? So, I said, yes, the caste system was very unfortunate and horrifying at times, but the Indian tradition had its own internal reform.
And that internal reform was the Bhakti tradition. The Bhakti tradition actually went against the caste hierarchy. If you look at, there was a big resurgence of Bhakti in the mediaeval times.
And most of the Bhakti saints were not from the upper castes. They were from the lower castes. Some of them were even outcastes.
And they were often oppressed by the the priestly class. And yet they rose to prominence based on their purity and spiritual potency. And the Bhagavad Gita is secondarily a book about the social division.
Primarily, it is about spiritual devotion. So, the Bhagavad Gita, in a sense, is the basis of the internal reform that happened within the Indian tradition. So, yes, sometimes hierarchies become oppressive, but our tradition is resilient enough that when the hierarchies become oppressive, the hierarchies are transcended.
And here we see a dramatic example of the transcending of hierarchy, where a speaker from a lower caste is speaking to an audience, most of whom are from the highest caste. Shaunak, Adi, Rushis, it is said. So, all these sages are Brahmins.
But Suta Goswami is speaking to them. And this is not just, this inversion of hierarchy is not just in the setting of the Bhagavatam. It means the setting of the conversation, who are talking.
But this inversion of hierarchy is there throughout in the substance of the Bhagavatam. If we consider, Devatas are considered higher than the Asuras. But we see in the Bhagavatam, an Asura is revealed to be far higher than a Devata.
Which is that example? Vritrasura is shown to be higher than Indra. That is the sixth canto. Immediately after that, the seventh canto is Prahalada.
At least Vritrasura is higher than one Devata, that is Indra. But Prahalada is shown to be higher than all the Devatas. So why? Because Prahalada has devotion.
Similarly, if we consider the eighth and the ninth cantos. In the ninth canto, we have the inversion of hierarchy through Ambarish and Durvasa. Durvasa is a Brahmana and a Sanyasi.
Ambarish Maharaj is a Grahasta and a Kshatriya. And yet he is shown to be higher. In the Bhagavatam, in the heart, the tenth canto, again we have this repeated inversion.
Where the Yajnik Brahmana Patnis, although some people may say that women are meant to be subordinate to men, but here what we see is that the women are shown to be far more intelligent than the men. The Brahmana has to neglect Krishna, but the Brahmanis surrender to Krishna. And the greatest inversion of hierarchy is in the Gopis of Vrindavan.
The whole Bhagavatam’s narrative is flowing towards the Rasa Panchadhyay. The five chapters in the tenth canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam, 29 to 33, where the Gopis are revealed to be such great devotees that Krishna says, that I cannot repay you. Normally we are indebted to God, but here God says I am so indebted to you that I can’t repay you.
And this month of Damodar is also a dramatic demonstration of the inversion of hierarchy, where we are all bound by the laws of karma which work under God. Isha tantra badhyam. Isha tantriyam.
But here we see God gets bound by his devotees. That is Yashodamayi binding Krishna Bhakti baddham, by her love. So this theme that devotion inverts, not only transcends hierarchies, but also inverts hierarchies.
It is there in the setting of the Bhagavatam and also in the substance of the Bhagavatam. Now how does this happen? That happens by the unlimited potency of the Lord. In this verse, the word Ananta comes to eyes.
That the Lord has ananta gunatva, he has unlimited qualities and therefore Anantamahu, he is known as Ananta. What is the relationship of the significance of the Lord’s unlimitedness over here? That based on whatever be our past, we might be put in some underqualified or underprivileged position. But our past and it’s darkness, it’s finite.
Whereas God’s grace is infinite. And bhakti gives us access to the infinite grace of God. And by that infinite grace, whatever be our disqualifications, whatever be our lack of qualifications, they are transcended.
So God’s purity is greater than our impurity. No matter how great our impurity may be. And Krishna is so merciful that his love for us doesn’t depend on who we are.
His love for us is based not on who we are but on who he is. He loves us not because of our goodness but because of his godliness. We may be very unqualified, we may have done all kinds of terrible activities.
But no soul ever has the power to do anything that will make Krishna stop loving that soul. The soul doesn’t have the power to do anything which will make Krishna say you are such a terrible person, I quit your heart and go away. No, Krishna is always there in the heart.
And Krishna has that potency. Some people say that oh actually I am so fallen, I am so contaminated. If I come to the temple, I will contaminate the temple also.
So I will not come to the temple. Now this could be humility but it is often an excuse for not coming to the temple. It’s like saying oh I am so dirty.
If I take a bath, the whole water supply of the world will get contaminated. So I will not take a bath. Well, that’s absurd.
No matter how impure we are, we can always be purified by the Lord’s potency. So now the Lord’s mercy is omnipotent and normally in a hierarchy there is gradual elevation. So somebody who is born in a Shudra family, if they do their Shudra duty properly, next life they will go to a higher Varna and the next life to a higher Varna.
So there is incremental growth if one does one’s duty properly within the hierarchy. But when there is the Lord’s mercy that intervenes, then the growth is not incremental. The growth is revolutionary.
It is dramatic. It is exponential. Just a little practise of Bhakti and the Lord can reciprocate in extraordinary ways.
And thus across the world when we try to share Krishna consciousness, we often hear stories of how people who had many self-defeating habits, which they struggled to give up for years and they just couldn’t give up and then they start practising Bhakti and those habits just fall away. They are not just endeavouring by their own effort. It is God’s grace.
It is Krishna’s mercy that is coming in. So this is how Bhakti transcends all hierarchies. And now the last point will be that we all in our lives, we are situated at certain positions in a hierarchy.
Maybe in the temple community we have a certain position. In a family we have a certain position. If we are doing some outreach, we have a certain position in the hierarchy.
Although Bhakti transcends hierarchies, for the effective outreach of Bhakti, again hierarchies need to be created. Prabhupada said the Krishna consciousness movement will spread by organisation and intelligence. And organisation means hierarchy, some structure, some hierarchy.
Now just as hierarchies can sometimes become oppressive in the material world, sometimes hierarchies can create obstacles even for devotees. So we may sometimes feel I want to do this service but I don’t have this facility. I don’t have this resource.
I don’t have this position. If I had this, I could do so much more service. I could serve so much more effectively.
And yes, it may be true. Now Srila Prabhupada talked about this in different ways. Once Prabhupada was asked, actually twice during his last years, he was asked who will be your successor? And when a prominent Indian life member asked Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada replied whoever wants to be.
It’s a very intriguing reply whoever wants to be. Did Prabhupada want a free for all where everybody is fighting to be the successor? Not exactly. What Prabhupada meant was that another conversation in Prabhupada’s memory, Prabhupada once told Tamal Krishna Maharaj and several of his disciples that I inherited the legacy of my spiritual master.
Which is again a very intriguing statement because if we consider Bhakta Siddhanta Thakur established the Gaudiya Math and they had 64 temples in India 3 temples outside India and thousands and thousands of disciples were there and there were also lot of financial resources were there. Now Prabhupada did not get any of these. Prabhupada got nothing from the Gaudiya Math.
Then what did Prabhupada mean when he said that I inherited the legacy? The essential legacy that is passed down in the Bhakti tradition is the desire to serve and glorify Krishna. If we have a desire to glorify Krishna then all other facilities will come by Krishna’s grace in due course. So Prabhupada got not one temple, Prabhupada got not one book printing facility from his spiritual master’s institution, Prabhupada got not one assistant but Prabhupada said who has built more temples than me? Who has written more books than me? Who has made more devotees than me? Prabhupada not saying this in egoistic sense, he said this was his evidence that I have inherited the legacy of my spiritual master.
So in the Bhakti tradition, Prabhupada said whoever wants they can become my successors. What he meant was that he was not talking about succession in terms of the institutional hierarchy. Yes he appointed some leaders but Prabhupada was not partial to anyone.
During his times those devotees who showed the most dedication Prabhupada reciprocated with them and gave them more responsibility. So if we just maintain our desire to glorify Krishna and try to make that desire stronger sooner or later Krishna will give us the facility and ultimately we want to glorify Krishna to purify ourselves and yes others can be benefited if we glorify Krishna and that’s what also we want but the main purpose of glorifying Krishna is pleasing Krishna and purifying our hearts. So if we want to glorify Krishna we can just do it ourselves according to our capacity for that glorification to reach others and benefit others certain resources are required and sometimes we may have them sometimes we may not have them but that doesn’t stop us from glorifying Krishna that doesn’t stop our attempts to glorify Krishna from reaching Krishna the lack of resources may stop our glorification of Krishna from reaching the world from being seen by the world but it doesn’t stop it from being seen by the Lord so we may desire things in the world for serving Krishna but I’ll conclude with this point that what is desired for Krishna should not be desired more than Krishna what is desired for Krishna we may say oh if only we want to build a big temple and if we only have some more financial resources we can build a big temple it’s wonderful Prabhupada also built big temples so that could attract many many people but if we become so obsessed with building a big temple that in pursuing a big temple we forget Krishna and the desire for that those financial resources dominates our consciousness so much that the desire for Krishna practically dies then that is undesirable so we might be in a particular position in the hierarchy and that might limit how much service we can do but our primary purpose is to serve Krishna not serve Krishna necessarily with this or that resource so what is desired for Krishna should not be desired more than Krishna if we maintain our desire for Krishna in due course Krishna will give us what we need for serving Him and whatever hierarchies might be there which we might feel are limiting me they will not limit us if we persistently strive to serve Krishna how long it will take we don’t know because Krishna has his own plan Krishna wants to give the devotees the whole world but Krishna doesn’t want that the devotees take the world and go away from Him so by our service if we show Krishna that what we have we are using in His service everything that we have if we use in His service then Krishna will give us more so surrender means to do what we can with what we have now we may have little resources, little time little intelligence, little energy but surrender means to do what we can with what we have now and if we surrender in this way to Krishna we might be low down in the hierarchy and somebody might be high up in the hierarchy but our connection with Krishna can be stronger than the connection of someone else who is high up in the hierarchy and we can experience greater purification greater satisfaction and greater absorption in Krishna and thus our position in the hierarchy will not limit us in moving closer to Krishna we can be close to Krishna in this life and we can go to Krishna at the end of our life irrespective of where we are in the hierarchies of this world and that is the ultimate redeeming potency of devotion so I will summarise, I spoke today on the topic of how devotion transcends all hierarchies Suta Goswami although being low born is given the position of addressing those who are high born because he is such a great devotee I spoke three points that how hierarchy exist in the world for effective functioning and the hierarchy of say somebody is born high born because of the good work that they have done in the past that enables them to continue the good work and benefit everyone but hierarchies can easily become oppressive and that’s what happened to the Varanashram when it became the caste system and the Indian tradition has its own reform through the bhakti tradition where in spite of people being low born they were elevated as great saints and that happens because Krishna’s purity is far greater than our impurity he is Ananda and he can transcend all hierarchies this theme is seen in the setting of the Bhagavatam as well as in the substance through the various characters who though low born are shown to be higher than high born characters and lastly wherever we are in the hierarchy still devotion can help empower us to connect with the Lord so we may feel that I can serve the Lord more if I have more facilities if I have better position in the hierarchy and more important is that whatever is desired for Krishna shouldn’t be desired more than Krishna like essentially Prabhupada did not get a high position in the Gaudiamat hierarchy from a spiritual master but what Prabhupada inherited was the desire to glorify Krishna and from that desire extraordinary facilities manifested by Krishna’s grace so if we maintain our desire to glorify Krishna Krishna will provide us everything in due course and even if things are not provided in the world ultimately the desire to glorify Krishna will take us closer to Krishna in this world and ultimately to Krishna beyond this world I am going to cast you in the lowest birth not just once but Krishna says I will cast you down forever so it doesn’t seem to gel if God loves you so much why would he cast you into some horrible situation so if Krishna loves us so much then he says that the demoniac are cast into hell for many births why is that actually that is one of the more puzzling verses in the Bhagavad Gita and some indication for revealing for unravelling that puzzle comes in Prabhupada’s translation tanaham dvishataha krooran so the Sanskrit words are dvishataha is envious krooran is cruel Prabhupada translates that as mischievous so now what is going on over here at one level there is a law of karma and if we do bad we will get bad results one bad result is we are cast into hellish conditions however in this case the statement if we see the verse concludes the chapter concludes by saying therefore follow shastra and elevate yourself so this statement our Acharya has explained that it is more indicative of Krishna’s displeasure and dismay at the souls who continuously act in ungodly ways every statement has a particular stress just like if a father is upset with his child because they are doing something which is bad for them if you do this the doors of my home are forever closed for you the point over there is not that my doors are forever closed for you the point is don’t do this so now yes the father is angry and the father has a genuine reason to be angry but does that mean the father will literally never allow the child to come back home no the force over there is not on the second part the doors of my home are closed for you the force is don’t do this so similarly here the point of Krishna is that don’t do these ungodly activities we have to see there are other verses in the Bhagavad Gita also say for example Krishna says in 4.36 he says no matter how sinful somebody is if they become situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge they can cross beyond all miseries similarly 9.30 says that even if somebody has done some grievous wrongdoings if they become devoted to me not only they have to be considered saintly Krishna says so we also have the understanding that Krishna so there is the idea of eternal hell in certain religious traditions but in our tradition it is said that wherever one may be one can always be elevated so the stress of that statement is on don’t become a demoniac person like this is that clear? we know that that Prabhupada at least in one circumstance he said that all his disciples were pure devotees because they were following him sincerely so even though one’s heart is not sufficiently free from contaminations if he is following the pure path he is considered in one sense pure so I was just wondering in the purport there was one sentence that said chanting under the direction of a pure devotee is itself offenseless chanting so I was just wondering even if we are chanting namaparad but if we are trying to do that under the direction of a pure devotee is that also considered offenseless? yes, so if you are chanting under the direction of a spiritual master is it offenseless chanting just like Prabhupada said all his disciples are pure devotees because they are trying to follow yes, see any categorisation that we do most categories are conceptual constructs when you translate categories into the real world the real world is not so neat and tidy that it can be placed in categories say if we consider America is here, Canada is here it’s a categorisation on the map it seems very clear but if you go actually it’s not that throughout there is a wall this is America, this is Canada this is a river separating half of the river belongs to America, half to Canada any categorisation when we try to translate it into reality it’s not so neat and tidy so exactly what is offenseless chanting and what is pure chanting what is offensive chanting these are broadly we could say concepts which help us to understand the direction in which we should go but when a particular person is chanting a particular mantra is that particular chanting offenseless or offensive or pure when we are talking about these kinds of chanting are we referring to say one mantra are we referring to one session of japa or are we talking about one lifetime of sadhana these are complicated things the point which Prabhupada made when he said that all my followers are pure devotees Prabhupada elsewhere talks about how a fruit even if it is presently raw if it is connected with a tree it will soon become ripe so more important than the present situation is the connection so here when Prabhupada says that if you are chanting another guidance of a spiritual master it’s offenseless chanting that means the connection is there the fruit may be raw, may be going toward ripe or it may be extremely new and very raw doesn’t matter if it is connected with the tree it will soon ripen in the sense that if we are trying to serve our spiritual master serve Krishna through the spiritual master then that connection with the lord is there and that connection itself will bring about purification so if we start getting too caught in this we might start becoming very judgemental oh your chanting is offensive this person is not a pure devotee we don’t want to become judgemental in the association of devotees like that we want to connect with each other and connect with Krishna Prabhupada said that was one of the purposes of ISKCON to bring people closer to each other and closer to the prime living being so categorisation we can use primarily for giving ourselves a trajectory on the spiritual path not to precisely position each action on each person if we are connected with Krishna surely we become purified and because the chanting has the potency to purify us in that sense it is definitely not offensive chanting it is offenseless chanting which will lead to pure chanting thank you I am trying to understand this point in deciding to glorify Krishna and Krishna has his own desires not to supersede for example a thought came to my mind Prabhupada said my disease is to always think big and for the pure devotee who can understand the desire of Krishna will be no trouble but for many of us in the name of doing big or trying to please Krishna we might create some imbalance so what will be the check and balance in this how would someone know that actually you are doing more than what you are supposed to do for example we heard in the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna says do not preach the glories to the ignorant or distribute this knowledge to the ignorant and Prabhupada understood that he took the risk to do that apparently it may appear that he is superseding Krishna so when Prabhupada said I always think big that is my disease so when we try to do something very big for Krishna then that might create an imbalance so how do we have a system of check and balance we could say basically although Prabhupada had been trying to do a lot of things for Krishna and many of them in the first 60-70 years of his life most of them didn’t work but that never made Prabhupada bitter even when Prabhupada was alone just an old man walking on the streets of New York when he had very few followers those who met Prabhupada they saw that he was so joyful not joyful in the sense that just like a humorous laughing but he was alive, he was happy so when our desire for something becomes very strong and if that desire is not fulfilled it is almost natural that we become disheartened we become resentful so the test that even when none of Prabhupada or very few of Prabhupada’s desires to glorify Krishna were being fulfilled still Prabhupada didn’t become disheartened didn’t become bitter, didn’t become resentful that shows that Prabhupada’s desire for Krishna was greater than his desire for the things he wanted to offer to Krishna and so if there is nothing to offer to Krishna still Prabhupada was satisfied so for us also we need to know that the most important thing we are offering to Krishna is our consciousness and we are a society for Krishna consciousness and sometimes when we try to do too many things beyond our present capacity Krishna can always expand our capacity in future but when we try to do more than what we can do according to our capacity reasonably then when things don’t happen then we start becoming irritable, we start becoming disheartened we start snapping at others so we can see, now this, if you are doing something challenging and big for Krishna, to some extent some anxiety is unavoidable if you are doing a big Janmashtami festival and people are not doing something on time we might just speak strongly at that time but once in a while something like that happening is different but if there is constant irritability constant dissatisfaction constant criticism then that indicates that we might be wanting to offer big things to Krishna but actually we are making our consciousness unofferable to Krishna because of the bitterness in that then maybe better step down, maybe slow down a little bit we don’t have to offer that much so if you have that understanding, actually whatever I want to offer through that primarily I want to offer my consciousness to Krishna so then we will take that much responsibility that will give us absorption we will take up as much challenges as will absorb us but we will not take so much challenge if we take too little challenges, we will be distracted and we will be thinking, we will be gossiping and doing so many other things and we will not be offering our consciousness to Krishna if we take too many challenges, then we will become not absorbed but obsessed and burdened and ultimately the fruit can be seen in our consciousness and we can ourselves experience it and maybe if we have some close devotee friends they will also tell us, no maybe you are taking too much right now slow down a little bit and if we take that input then we will be able to stay balanced thank you last question thank you very much, that was amazing I just want to make sure I have understood this particular point properly so devotion is like an antidote for despair despair being hopelessness because Krishna’s mercy is always more powerful than any living entity’s fallenness nobody can be so fallen that Krishna can’t be merciful enough to elevate them so we say that, we have that expression no material impediment, actually there are material impediments but what we really mean is there is no material impediment so great that it can’t be overcome by getting Krishna’s mercy is that the correct understanding? yes, very true, see there is no material impediment that can stop us from internally connecting with Krishna but for externally contributing to Krishna material impediments can come in the way and we see that when Prabhupada didn’t have facilities he couldn’t reach to people in India it was only when he was successful in America and he came back then he was able to reach people when I read this verse long ago I had this question that if this devotee this is 9.14 in the Bhagavad Gita if they are so devoted to Krishna they are completely devoted to Krishna then why do they need to endeavour they endeavour with great determination we need to endeavour because we have so many impurities and we have to fight against those impurities, that’s our endeavour but if somebody is already pure, why do they need to endeavour for them, for those who are already pure their endeavour is not against their impurities their endeavour is against the world’s impurities which creates obstacles so for all of us we have to endeavour and sometimes the facilities may not come and then externally obstacles can be there we see that Arjuna was told by Krishna that by my arrangement all your enemies are killed remember me and you will cross over all obstacles but then Arjuna still faced obstacles Arjuna’s son Abhimanyu was killed, Adra’s son Iravan was killed and then after that all the Pandavas remaining sons except Parikshit were killed so there were obstacles so in the material world at the material level there can be certain impediments which can stop us from doing certain things for Krishna but when we say there are no material impediments in devotional service that means that no material situation can stop us from internally connecting with Krishna specifically how their connection will work out that will vary from person to person but the material impediments are not there for our inner connection but they may be there for our outer contribution for our outer contribution there may be some impediments but for the inner connection there are no impediments we can talk one to one afterwards thank you very much do you accept your explanation?