How does the soul fall from the spiritual world? What is the guarantee that we won’t fall again?
From: Mahesh
if jivatama is part and parcel of god why does it gets envious of God and come to this material world. if we were blissful serving god how can we develop envy towards him.
how can we say that once we go back to spiritual world we will never come back again to amterial world , when there is every chance that we can again become envious?
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Question by Mahesh.
If Jeevatma is a part and parcel of God, why does it get envious of God and come to this material world? If we are blissful serving God, how can we develop envy towards Him? And connecting with this, how can we say that once we go back to the spiritual world, we’ll never come back again to the material world? When there is every chance that we can again become envious? Answer. The first point to understand in our relationship with Krishna is that because it is a relationship of love, and love is based on voluntary exercise of one’s free will, therefore Krishna has given us free will which we can use or misuse. So now, in general, most of the souls in the spiritual world don’t misuse their free will, they don’t make an indiscreet, incorrect, imprudent choice by which they come to this world.
But some souls make a mistake of judgment. Now why would they make a mistake of judgment? Firstly we have to understand that we are tiny, God is infinite, and just as a spark of fire can get extinguished by pouring of water, but a huge forest fire cannot get extinguished by pouring water. Similarly, because we are infinitesimal and we have free will, it is possible that we may be overpowered by misunderstanding or misconception, and we may misuse our free will.
Another point is that we are Tapastha Shakti, we are marginal energy. Just as the coast can sometimes be dry and sometimes wet, similarly the soul, being marginal, can sometimes be in Krishna, sometimes in Maya. So the first point to understand is that we have free will, by which we can choose to go right or go wrong, and secondly, because we are tiny, we are influenceable in the wrong way.
Thirdly, we are happy in the spiritual world, there is no doubt about that. When we are loving and serving Krishna, we are happy. But we also can desire to enjoy like Krishna instead of enjoy with Krishna.
So in essence, we desire to imitate Krishna. Now you may wonder, how can such a desire come in the soul over there? Is he not completely satisfied? Yes, even if one is completely satisfied, one may not be sure, may not feel convinced that there might be something else, something better for me, something else that I have not yet explored that I want to explore. So the soul, it is not that he is unhappy serving Krishna, but just that he desires to have a curiosity, a daredevilish curiosity.
So why would such a negative desire come in the presence of Krishna and Krishna’s beauty and Krishna’s love and the happiness that comes from there? That’s why it’s unlikely, but still it has happened. So how did it happen? Firstly, we can understand that this happening is not impossible because even when we as sadhakas and advanced devotees are practicing Krishna consciousness, sometimes our mind becomes averse. Although Krishna’s prasad is sweet, Krishna’s holy name is sweet, Krishna’s deities are beautiful, but still we feel averse and we feel that maybe there is something more in life, maybe there is something more in life which I want to explore.
So this is the third reason that the soul just gets a daredevilish desire to explore something more in life. Now, technically speaking, in the spiritual world, there may not be something like envy. The initial desire may be not envy, but it could be just a desire to enjoy in a different way from what is possible in the spiritual world.
We see that Krishna is the enjoyer and we may desire that we want to enjoy by serving Krishna in a way that is not possible in the spiritual world, that is by creation. So when we come to the world, we have come here to serve in the material world by creating. But once we come to this material world, we have the desire to serve Krishna, but along with that, this world is a place of illusion and other desires start coming in.
So if we don’t succumb to those desires, we can fulfill that desire for creation by becoming a Brahma, get purified and return back to the spiritual world. But if we succumb to those other lower desires, then the downward descent from Brahma’s level starts for us. And that’s how we go on a cycle of birth and death.
So moreover, from the spiritual point of view, it is just a momentary lapse. So we wonder, how can somebody desire to explore something more? Why would that happen? Yes, it can be a momentary lapse in the spiritual world, but that momentary lapse may get expanded in the material realm as maybe millions of lifetimes. Just as we know that time flows slower in the higher planets.
So you can imagine a pyramid. A pyramid at the bottom is maybe hundreds of square feet, but at the top, it is just one square inch. So like that, the pyramid as it moves downward, it becomes broader and broader and broader.
So at the top, what could be just a moment in the spiritual realm, as that is projected downwards to the earthly realm, it can be many, many lifetimes. So a momentary lapse of consciousness is possible because we can get the daredevilish desire to want to explore. Now, certainly when we come to this material world, we explore and experience the consequences of our foolhardy exploration.
Then we realize that I made a serious mistake. So then when we go back to the spiritual world, then again ever the desire comes. It can come, it can come surely, because Krishna never takes away our free will.
But because we have had personal experience of the consequences of that desire, as soon as the desire comes, we dismiss that desire. As it is said in English, once burnt, twice shy. If somebody has been burnt by putting the hand in the fire, the next time the person is ultra careful to stay away from the fire.
So Krishna promises us in the Bhagavad Gita that we will never again misuse our free will. Or rather we will never again come back to this material world. So that doesn’t mean that he takes away our free will.
That means that he ensures that we don’t misuse our free will. Not by taking away our free will, but by giving us the right memory and the right reasoning to prevent us from making that wrong decision again. So therefore, as sadhakas right now, we need to understand that that which is beyond the realm of time is very difficult for us to understand when we are within the realm of time.
So in general, if we see in material life also, when we get diagnosed for a disease, certainly we need to diagnose the disease. And as far as possible we need to know the cause of the disease so that we can prevent it. But beyond the prevention of the recurrence, there is no point in doing a detailed post mortem of the exact event that caused the disease.
If I have malaria right now, if I have fever right now, then I don’t need to diagnose it to understand that it is malaria. And I don’t need to know that malaria is caused by mosquito bite. And I don’t need to know what treatment I need to take so that I can get cured.
So I need to know my disease, I need to know its cause and I need to know its cure. But beyond that, do I really need to know which mosquito bit me, when and where and why? If we try to go into that sort of analysis, we will die before we ever come to an answer. And we will have an avoidable death entirely because just taking the treatment could have cured us.
So just as in our worldly life also, we try to understand causes to as much capacity as is possible. So if I decide I will not take the treatment till I actually find the mosquito and out of revenge kill that mosquito, then I will take the treatment. We were condemning ourselves, sentencing ourselves to an unnecessary sickness and suffering along with an unnecessary and futile struggle to find the mosquito.
Similarly, the realm of time, the realm of eternity, because it is beyond the realm of time in the sense that we understand time. Therefore, what happens in the realm of eternity is very difficult for us to understand. But surely, we can understand that we have free will.
That because we are tiny, we can misuse the free will. That we can get a daredevilish desire to explore. That exploration may be in a form that is non-inducive of Krishna, like creation.
That exploration may be momentary, which translates in our terms as millions of lifetimes. And that error of judgement will be prevented because now we have the experience ourselves and we also have Krishna’s assurance. So when we know the cause in a generic sense, we understand the prevention, that is to try to remove the envy from our heart.
And we understand the cure, that we have to purify ourselves and develop the love for Krishna. Then, let us focus right now on purifying ourselves and developing our love for Krishna. Not all questions can be understood at the level of logic.
Because certain questions also require that we expand our consciousness. Now if we try to bring reality down to the level of our understanding and try to fit reality into our understanding, not only will reality not fit down to our understanding, rather our understanding will forever stay immature and at times incorrect. Rather, if we by our own spiritual growth try to expand our understanding so that it can accommodate reality, then there is a greater chance that we will get a clearer understanding of the reality.
So, going too much into the nitty-gritties and quibbling about the details of how and why and when and all those things about the original fall from the spiritual world, is like, because that is the eternal spiritual realm and we are in the temporary material realm, that is an effort to try to bring the eternal down to the level of the temporary. Try to shrink reality to the level of our understanding. Rather, the Bhagavad Gita tells us, the Srimad Bhagavatam tells us, that if we expand our understanding by the process of devotional service, by the purification that results from practicing devotional service, then, But the Bhagavatam says that, what will happen is, all the attachments from the heart will go away and the doubts will be removed.
So, the removal of doubt is at one level an intellectual process, but at another level, it is also a purificatory devotional process. It’s like, some doubts can be removed by discussing with the doctor and understanding the cause of the disease and the details of the diagnosis, the basis of the diagnosis. But ultimately, if we want to have a conclusive removal of our doubt about what is the exact disease and whether this cure will work or not, whether this cause is actually correct or not, it’s ultimately by taking the treatment.
So, we can see even now in this world, that by practicing the process of Krishna Consciousness, by chanting Hare Krishna, two things happen. Actually, our desire to enjoy decreases and our enjoyment increases. It is paradoxical, it is remarkable.
Our desire to enjoy decreases, enjoy in the sense that, when we want to control, dominate, possess and use our senses, independent of Krishna, so that desire to enjoy decreases. Because we get purified. But along with that, our enjoyment increases.
Because as we become more and more connected with Krishna, through our devotion, through our remembrance and through our service, then we start developing a constant attraction and remembrance of Krishna and that becomes the source of the greatest happiness. So, even in this life, within a short period, we can experience the cure working and we can experience ourselves getting better, becoming more happy, more peaceful, more fulfilled, more productive in our lives by the practice of Krishna Consciousness. So, therefore, let us focus right now on curing ourselves and not bother too much about the nitty-gritties of the cause of the disease.