How God is so close, never far away Bhag 3.5.41
Transcript
This is AI generated transcript and may contain some errors
My dear lord please guide us all as we take shelter of the wisdom that can empower us to take shelter of your lotus feet Hare Krishna I am grateful to be here with all of you once again and this is one of the most visually and semantically beautiful verses in the Srimad Bhagavatam and in this verse a prayer is being offered about how the lord is eminently worth being taken shelter of marganti yatte mukhpadmanidai so I’ll just explain the verse itself and then we will discuss about the lord who is glorified as the supreme object of shelter in this verse so mukhpadmanidai so it is described as the lotus face of the lord mukhpadma that is like a nest and our heart is like a fluttering wandering bird and that bird has strayed far away from the nest that is its home and it has not only strayed far away it’s like that bird has lost its wings just like Jatayu while fighting against Ravan had his wings lopped off by that vicious demon similarly it is like the illusions of this world have lopped off our wings and we get the wings to fly high in the sky and to the lord who exists beyond the sky by the study of Vedic scriptures chandah suparnai the wisdom given in these hymns is like the wings for us and powered by these wings we all can fly and we attain that supreme lord who the birds fly high into the sky the soul flies high far far away into the kingdom of god and yet the second part of this verse says that we shouldn’t think that the lord is very far away the lord makes himself accessible to us even when we are here right now that the lord makes himself specially manifest to free us from the sins from the unhealthy impressions from the self sabotaging desires that keep us away from him and how does he do that through his manifestations of mercy like the sacred Ganga river and Prabhupada says there are many rivers like that across the world so I’ll speak today about two aspects of the lord and how they both can inspire us to take shelter so the entire session today I’ll be speaking I’ll be using this as a white board to write and draw other things that the lord has two aspects to him there is this transcendence which is a word we often use but there is also his immanence so the first half of this verse is talking about the transcendence of the lord the word transcend so actually I’ll keep coming back to this particular diagram and this diagram will summarise everything that I’m going to speak today but let me explain there is across the world’s various theologies there is always a question of god’s relationship with nature or specifically with the word and there are two schools of thought broadly one is that god is transcendent that means god exists beyond nature that there is nothing material about him and to attain him we need to go beyond the world of matter that god is transcendental and while that is definitely true there is another school of thought that god is also immanent immanent means that he is within nature that he is not far away he is right here with us even now so both these aspects are very much a part of the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita which Prabhupada in his own beautiful way in the purport he said just as the Ganga river is flowing similarly the Gita is flowing while the Ganga is localised in a particular place but the flow of the sacred words that have come from Krishna’s lotus lips can spread everywhere can spread as far as we humans want it to spread so in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna talks about both these aspects for example in 7.13 I will explain these verses he talks about Krishna’s transcendence and 7.7 to 7.12 he is talking about his immanence so and the conclusion about both of after understanding both of these is that we surrender to the Lord that is 7.14 this is a well known verse take shelter of me although the illusion of this world is very difficult to overcome it can be overcome if you just surrender to me so what is it that will inspire us to surrender it is understanding God’s place in relationship to this world so in 7.7 Krishna says he says that in this world if we compare it to a necklace and it is a very striking vision sometimes we can become very pessimistic about this world and say this world is well that is a teaching of the Gita Krishna also compares this world to a beautiful necklace and a necklace is filled with attractive jewels and he says underlying this necklace unifying its many jewels together is the thread and Krishna says he is the thread of truth that underlies and unifies all of existence so this is referring to God’s immanence in this world that he exists within this world and Krishna gives many examples of his immanence for example I am the taste of water I am the fragrance of the earth so this list is indicative it is not exhaustive it is meant to indicate that this is how we can perceive the presence of God in this world so I will first just explain the scriptural section and then we will move forward to the concept a little bit more after describing how he is present in this world in fact Krishna also includes in that list the activity that we normally think as having the highest potential to take our consciousness away from him that is sexuality and Krishna says in that same very list dharma aviruddho bhuteshu kamosmi bharatarshabha that even in that activity when reproduction happens through it that is a miracle and it is God who makes that miracle happen so immanence of God means that we are able to perceive God’s presence in this world itself after speaking this however Krishna emphasises that his existence extends beyond this world in 7.13 he states 7.12 and 13 he says so he says that all these states of existence they come from me I don’t come from them so in 7.12 and 13 he says these come from the modes he says the modes come from me they are in me I am not in them and then he says that we are all bewildered because everything in this world is covered by 3 modes so basically he is saying there is this veil of illusion that prevents us from perceiving him although he is present in this world and beyond this world we are unable to perceive him but still we can surrender to him so this is the concept of the transcendence and the immanence of God so let’s look at this from other perspective that if we consider what transcendence and immanence means see the normal conception is say this is the material level of reality and this is the spiritual level of reality and Krishna exists at the spiritual level and that’s the idea is that we practise bhakti and go from this world to the spiritual world while this is a valid understanding it is not the complete understanding the other understanding is that actually everything is contained within Krishna even this world is contained within Krishna so when we are to practise bhakti it is not just by turning away from this world toward Krishna rather we can turn toward this world, serve Krishna in this world and thereby also go towards Krishna so this is the approach that focusses on the transcendence of Krishna or Krishna exists beyond this world but this is the approach which focusses on the immanence of Krishna that Krishna exists even in this world Krishna talks about this in 1846 for example he talks about this in 815 well known verse he says he says you will attain the supreme destination beyond this world of distress if you take shelter of me so one way is just turn away from this world and come to me but that is not the only thing that Krishna recommends he says understand that from me the whole world has emanated by me the whole world is pervaded and thus through the work that you do you can worship me and attain me sometimes this is simplistically mistranslated as work is worship that is not what Krishna is saying he is saying through your work worship me but the idea is God is both immanent and transcendent and understanding these two aspects of God is very important now if we go back over here to this idea A I have envisioned this as a pendulum now pendulum can go towards two extremes now if we focus only on the transcendence of God what happens is God is far away from this world God exists in the spiritual world if that is our only conception of God now in our tradition it is true Bhagawan exists in the spiritual world so Bhagawan is the transcendental aspect of God but there is also Paramatma He is the immanent aspect of God if we focus only on the transcendent aspect God can seem too remote He can seem too unconcerned you may start thinking you know I am facing this problem and that problem I have so many challenges externally internally and Krishna is playing his flute in the spiritual world enjoying with the Gopis does he even know what I am going through so God can seem very remote and unconcerned and most importantly it is this is more in terms of the conception of God but practically for us God can seem inaccessible because if God is only spiritual sorry God is only non material that is the emphasis of spiritual over here that God is only manifest at the non material level and we exist in the material world our senses are material our eyes are material our body is material God becomes inaccessible he becomes very remote and that’s how God starts feeling inaccessible and eventually starts feeling irrelevant God is so far away how does he matter in my life now on the other hand if we go towards the other extreme and focus only on God’s immanence then the idea of immanence is very important to understand different traditions at different times have swerved in the pendulum in different directions so now these two ideas that God’s transcendence and God’s immanence have both been there throughout human history in the world’s various theologies in the Indian history the bhakti tradition especially during the mediaeval times which were a time of great religious persecution because of the Islamic rule in India so the bhakti tradition started becoming more and more focused on transcendence that turn away from this world just immerse yourself in the divine now that is valid sometimes when we just can’t change anything in this world we need to turn away from the world but that is not the only approach to bhakti Krishna is so concerned about this world that he descends to this world again and again for dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge Arjuna wanted to turn away from the world but Krishna told him turn towards the world fight in this world for establishing order so at different times across history the emphasis of particular traditions may go towards transcendence or too much towards immanence and in the bhakti tradition often that transcendent aspect has been emphasised according to time and place but that emphasis can make people impractical or otherworldly or irrelevant there was a survey done in America a decade or so ago maybe a couple of decades ago what are general people’s perception of the Hare Krishnas says a bunch of jolly impractical people now we go around dancing on the street singing and it may seem that we have nothing to do with this world yeah we are jolly we are happy but do we address the issues of the world at all so is our only response to any problem in the world this world is ukkhal I get out of it so actually immanence if it is neglected as I said it can seem very irrelevant and many bhakti theologians now are emphasising how immanence is a part of the vedic tradition there is an environmental crisis of course there is politics associated with it and it has become a polarising issue but undoubtedly there is some problem with the way we have handled the environment the dispute is over how we should respond to it but the idea is even many mainstream scientists and thinkers are saying that we need to infuse our efforts to take care of the environment with a vision of the sacred and that vision of the sacred is actually most directly emphasised in the vedic tradition in the bhakti tradition through the idea of the universal form that the universe is actually the body of God that is the most vivid visualisation of the immanence of God that the trees are like the hair on the body of the Lord and the mountains and the peaks are like the bones on the body of the Lord it’s a visualisation no doubt but that visualisation is given within the tradition and that is indicated to emphasise the immanence of the Lord so the purpose of emphasising immanence is to actually show that infuse divinity within creation within nature that nature is not just profane nature is not just mundane that actually it is divine it is infused with divinity now the problem with immanence taken too far is that it can lead to what is called as pantheism pan is everything like a pan-european endeavour that means an endeavour that encompasses all of Europe so pantheism is the idea that everything is God now the problem with this idea is that God becomes reduced to nature that God is considered to be the sum total of all things and when pantheism holds that God is the sum total of all of material existence and that God has no self-existence beyond nature so God becomes reducible to nature that there is no personhood to God there is no personality to God as some being existing beyond nature in the Isha Upanishad it says the Lord is inside everything but the Lord is also outside everything that the idea of immanence taken too far makes God seem to be nothing more than nature itself and many scientists who are theistic often go towards this idea of God as nature so in the European tradition Spinoza was a prominent proponent of that Einstein’s God, there are books written about that whole conception and his God also seemed to be more this pantheistic naturalistic kind of deity so Einstein has made quotes attributed to him which talk about his acceptance of the existence of God but there are also quotes about him which say that he doesn’t believe in the God of religion so his idea of God was complex he went through his own challenging experiences in life including witnessing the holocaust and escaping it, that naturally affected his conception of God also, but the point is that for him the idea of nature and nature being filled with some brilliant organisation for such people, the laws of nature themselves are equated with the divine so God loses his self existence and when God becomes reducible to nature then God essentially ends up becoming impotent why? because there is nothing beyond this world to which God will deliver us this world is all that there is and the laws of nature are themselves God so what will God do to intervene and deliver us so this idea, immanence taken too far is a problem that it makes God seem just okay it’s nice to worship God but there is no use to pray to such a God because God is nature and God can’t intervene in nature in that sense now the balanced understanding is in between that God is both transcendent and immanent now when Prabhupada would sometimes say the holy name is transcendental what his emphasis was that actually when we are uttering the holy name it’s a sound coming from the same throat with which we are speaking other words so in that sense somebody might argue that it’s just a material sound but actually Krishna manifests within that material sound so actually Prabhupada is emphasising the non material manifestation that is there within that materially produced sound so he is actually talking about the immanence of God when he is emphasising the transcendence that Krishna is present within this sacred sound so now if we understand both Krishna’s immanence and transcendence together what happens by that that when we understand that Krishna is immanent that means we understand that he is accessible to us that he is never far away from us that at every moment in our hearts in our lives Krishna is with us within us he is closer to us than the closest person to us can be even if we hold them in the tightest of hugs he is closer to us than the most secret thought in our heart that we dare not even voice to anyone he is that close to us always so Krishna is always accessible to us that is the assurance that we get when we understand his immanence and he is not just within us when we look at nature when we observe the majesty and the beauty and the artistry of the world we can see that as a manifestation of the divine intelligence so God is accessible for us that’s what comes from understanding the immanence sorry I’ll put it over here when we understand Krishna’s immanence we understand that he is accessible now when we understand Krishna’s transcendence we understand that he is infallible he is infallible he is achyuta that he is not subjected to the vagaries of the world sometimes one day we meet a person and that person seems to be so warm and caring and loving I feel oh such a nice person I want to have a relationship with this person and then next day we meet and that person seems to be in a completely different mood and suddenly what happened yesterday you treated me as if I was your best friend today you are treating me as if I don’t even exist so the modes affect the moods of everyone and because of that the people they they may just be unpredictably variable and that’s what often makes relationships difficult but Krishna is not affected by the modes Krishna is suhrdam sarva bhutanam he is the well wisher of everyone at all times he never abandons us he never turns away from us he never rejects us he never loses the power to be able to help us now somebody may want to help us in this world but the nature of the world is that now if Krishna were non-emanent non-transcendent rather if Krishna were in this world then he would become something similar to a person in this world now the problem in this of people in this world is that they are fallible why fallible? because the world itself there are changes sometimes there are internal changes where people’s moods may change but there are external changes when their power may change so a person may promise I will help you when you are in trouble but maybe tomorrow they don’t have that position they don’t have that wealth they don’t have that energy they don’t have that intelligence everything in this world is temporary so in this world because the material world is changing Krishna says the only unchanging thing in this world is that nothing is unchanging the only constant is change the only unchanging thing is nothing is unchanging that’s why if we depend exclusively on any person in this world that will disappoint us in fact Prabhupada in the first canto he says that one of the problems for the shortening of life span and agitation of mind in Kalyuga is over dependence on another’s mercy because people are so unpredictable and especially with respect to today’s world minds are so unpredictable that’s why people are often very reserved about even opening up for relationships because it’s difficult to count on others but Krishna is not subjected to this material vicissitudes he is someone we can always count on so when we understand that Krishna is both infallible and accessible that’s how we understand that he is supremely desirable for us he is the person whom we should desire he is the person whom we should long for he is the person whose aid we need to seek aid is the acronym over here he is accessible he is infallible he is supremely desirable he is the person who can aid us in all situations he is never far away he is never powerless it is he who always wants us it is he who comes to this world again and again to reclaim us it is he who desires us already it is we who just need to desire him in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says the purpose of sadhana bhakti is that atchittam samadha tum nashakno simai sthiram abhyasa yogena tato mam icchaptum dhananjaya Krishna says when we practise remembrance, when we do sadhana bhakti the purpose of this is our desire for Krishna should increase. So when we hear about Krishna, when we hear his various pastimes we could just see them as entertaining stories but if you understand that this is actually the Lord, then our desire to take shelter of that Lord will increase and the greater our desire, the greater will be our perception of the Lord.
The Lord doesn’t want to hide himself from us this is the last point I’ll conclude with the Lord doesn’t want to hide himself from us. If he is invisible to us, that’s not because he wants to stay invisible. It’s because for us we want many other things to be visible more than him it’s like sometimes what happens is say someone doesn’t want to talk with us and we are standing right in front of them and they are talking with the person next to here and person here and person here I’m right in front of you but if they don’t want to talk then just keep looking here and there and there.
So like that, if we are unable to perceive Krishna, that’s because we are too eager to see other things in this world and that is what when our desire it is misdirected the misdirected desire has two effects to us first it is binding and second it is blinding these are the two energies of the Lord, Avaranatmika and Prakshepatmika so Avaran is covering so there is the Avaranatmika Shakti by which what happens the we become blinded to the Lord and that is Prakshepatmika Prakshepatmika means throwing throwing. Our consciousness gets thrown or pulled towards various objects in this world and that’s how we forget the Lord. Say suppose someone goes to watch a movie and maybe their best friend sitting right next to them, maybe a small child is gone and mother is sitting right next to the child but say it’s a horror movie or whatever and as soon as the movie starts, two things happen the lights around go off and the light in front goes on now both of these do the same thing they just pull the consciousness away from everything around towards the illusion that is there on the screen so the lights around us going off, that is the Avaranatmika Shakti that is what blinds us and the lights on the screen going on that is the Prakshepatmika Shakti.
That’s what pulls us towards illusion so now it’s a horror movie and the child is horrified, child may be trembling now the mother is sitting right next to the child ready to comfort and pacify the child but the child is completely caught so like that Purusha prakriti stho hi bhunkte prakriti jan gunan karanam guna sangosya sad asad yoni janmasu in 13.23 Krishna states that it is because we are so desirous of enjoying the things of this world that we forget the Lord that we get we get subject to these two effects, the blinding and the binding potency of illusion but nonetheless if we just turn towards Krishna as much as we can we try to remember him whenever we can how much we can gradually we’ll start awakening we’ll start perceiving Krishna and even during our chanting during our hearing we may not be able to concentrate constantly but even a little bit concentration that is the beginning of the dissipation of illusion sometimes it is Krishna’s transcendence that may inspire us to take shelter of him sometimes it is Krishna’s immanence that may inspire us to take shelter of him sometimes we hear some wonderful pastime of Krishna which he does with his devotees and we feel this is the world I long for, this is where I belong this is where I want to go to so that’s the transcendence appealing to us, sometimes we we chant and we feel some divine power, sometimes we participate in kirtan, sometimes we behold the beautiful darshan and we feel some sublime presence, it’s not that I have to go to the spiritual world to be with Krishna, there is something mystical right here with me that is the time when the immanence of Krishna is pulling us however we feel the pull of Krishna, whether it is by his transcendence or by his immanence we gratefully value that pull, we gratefully let ourselves be drawn towards our Krishna we let our desire for him keep increasing and in that way we will all one day experience Krishna in this world with us and ultimately experience Krishna beyond this world, so I’ll summarise what I discussed today I talked about, the broad topic was that taking shelter of Krishna so the verse itself talks about the transcendence of Krishna that with the wings of scripture we can fly into the sky towards Krishna that is talking about transcendence, but then it’s also talking about the immanence of Krishna where there are sacred rivers which can purify us here while we are in this world so that is what is being indicated in this verse itself, so then the key theme we discussed is about how if the when we understand the transcendence of the Lord the positive of that is that we understand that he is infallible that he exists beyond this world but if it’s taken too much the transcendence is emphasised then he becomes, he appears too remote, too unconcerned, he just exists in his world and then it starts appearing that as if he is inaccessible to us so transcendence is the idea that God is beyond nature and then the immanence of Krishna that on the positive side it makes us understand that he is always accessible to us, but again it’s too much then it makes God reducible to this world itself in trying to infuse divinity into everything if we have pantheism, pantheism basically takes divinity out of everything because pantheism takes away the self existence of God itself it can make God important or irrelevant so we want the balance of both of these and we discussed how the transcendence of Krishna is talked about in 7, 12, 13 and the immanence of Krishna is talked about 7, 7 to 11 as well as in 1846 Chathapravitirbhutana so the balance is on one side is too much transcendence too much immanence in between if you understand that from the transcendence we understand Krishna is infallible, from his immanence we understand that he is accessible now whatever inspires us through it all, we understand that Krishna is always desirable so whichever way somehow or the other fix in mind is Krishna that means sometimes through his immanence we may be inspired sometimes his transcendence we may be inspired, but somehow we try to trigger our desire for Krishna and by that we will all ultimately attain Krishna so I’ll just on this theme I’ve composed a small poetic prayer to Krishna, so I’ll conclude with that from the illusions that take me away take me oh lord from those illusions away Shri Krishna Bhagwan ki Shri Prabhupada ki Jai are there any questions yes please is there a mic Hare Krishna you mentioned the term mercy and that we might be looking to the material world to others for mercy for what mercy you mentioned that we may be looking for others for mercy over dependence on others I wonder if you could explain a little bit more about that term mercy, what we might be looking for in others over dependence and how that might differ from the mercy that we might seek from Krishna well politics has become the new religion I was just in America America is highly polarised, people think that a particular political leader will save the world, will save the country and India also is something similar political changes can make a difference no doubt and a good leader is definitely better than a bad leader but the level of polarisation it is not just 20-30 years ago when talking with my devotee friends in America people didn’t care whom you voted for now if you voted for this person I won’t even talk with you it’s almost like religious shunning of someone so some survey was done even say people say somebody who is a Democrat refuses to marry somebody who is a Republican and Republicans also return the same favour in America so the idea is that think that some person in this world if just that person is elected all problems will be solved that is a vivid example in today’s world of elevating someone to the level of God of becoming too dependent on someone’s mercy this is not to say again that there is a difference between say competent and incompetent rulers there is a difference between benevolent and malevolent rulers, no doubt but over dependence on someone’s mercy means that we basically outsource the responsibility for improving our lives to that person it is we have to take responsibility yes thank you for the very nice class bringing us all the sort of illustration of what is happening I’ve got here several references it’s in Srikakshakam we have to express the desire to see Krishna and it says ayi nanda tanujam kingaram patitam mam vishami bhavam bhodo kripaya dava padapam kaja sutahita sutih satrisham vichinda O son of Maharaj Nanda I’m your eternal servitor yet somehow or other I’ve fallen into this ocean of birth and death please pick me up from as an atom then it says the supreme lord is situated in everyone’s heart and directing the wonderings of all the living entities who are seated as on a machine made of the material energy O son of Bharat surrender unto him utterly by his grace you will attain transcendental peace and reach the eternal abode but then Prabhupada says, there’s a quote here of the secret of surrendering to Krishna that such a surrendered soul sees that everything is part of Krishna’s plan whatever I am meant to be whatever I am doing let me do it with my full attention to every detail it says then let all other considerations be forgotten and my only desire is to do the best for Krishna’s alone pleasure is my motive Thank you beautiful references 1862 that comes right after Krishna talks about his eminence I am inside the heart of every living being so surrender to me
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
My dear lord please guide us all as we take shelter of the wisdom that can empower us to take shelter of your lotus feet Hare Krishna I am grateful to be here with all of you once again and this is one of the most visually and semantically beautiful verses in the Srimad Bhagavatam and in this verse a prayer is being offered about how the lord is eminently worth being taken shelter of marganti yatte mukhpadmanidai so I’ll just explain the verse itself and then we will discuss about the lord who is glorified as the supreme object of shelter in this verse so mukhpadmanidai so it is described as the lotus face of the lord mukhpadma that is like a nest and our heart is like a fluttering wandering bird and that bird has strayed far away from the nest that is its home and it has not only strayed far away it’s like that bird has lost its wings just like Jatayu while fighting against Ravan had his wings lopped off by that vicious demon similarly it is like the illusions of this world have lopped off our wings and we get the wings to fly high in the sky and to the lord who exists beyond the sky by the study of Vedic scriptures chandah suparnai the wisdom given in these hymns is like the wings for us and powered by these wings we all can fly and we attain that supreme lord who the birds fly high into the sky the soul flies high far far away into the kingdom of god and yet the second part of this verse says that we shouldn’t think that the lord is very far away the lord makes himself accessible to us even when we are here right now that the lord makes himself specially manifest to free us from the sins from the unhealthy impressions from the self sabotaging desires that keep us away from him and how does he do that through his manifestations of mercy like the sacred Ganga river and Prabhupada says there are many rivers like that across the world so I’ll speak today about two aspects of the lord and how they both can inspire us to take shelter so the entire session today I’ll be speaking I’ll be using this as a white board to write and draw other things that the lord has two aspects to him there is this transcendence which is a word we often use but there is also his immanence so the first half of this verse is talking about the transcendence of the lord the word transcend so actually I’ll keep coming back to this particular diagram and this diagram will summarise everything that I’m going to speak today but let me explain there is across the world’s various theologies there is always a question of god’s relationship with nature or specifically with the word and there are two schools of thought broadly one is that god is transcendent that means god exists beyond nature that there is nothing material about him and to attain him we need to go beyond the world of matter that god is transcendental and while that is definitely true there is another school of thought that god is also immanent immanent means that he is within nature that he is not far away he is right here with us even now so both these aspects are very much a part of the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita which Prabhupada in his own beautiful way in the purport he said just as the Ganga river is flowing similarly the Gita is flowing while the Ganga is localised in a particular place but the flow of the sacred words that have come from Krishna’s lotus lips can spread everywhere can spread as far as we humans want it to spread so in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna talks about both these aspects for example in 7.13 I will explain these verses he talks about Krishna’s transcendence and 7.7 to 7.12 he is talking about his immanence so and the conclusion about both of after understanding both of these is that we surrender to the Lord that is 7.14 this is a well known verse take shelter of me although the illusion of this world is very difficult to overcome it can be overcome if you just surrender to me so what is it that will inspire us to surrender it is understanding God’s place in relationship to this world so in 7.7 Krishna says he says that in this world if we compare it to a necklace and it is a very striking vision sometimes we can become very pessimistic about this world and say this world is well that is a teaching of the Gita Krishna also compares this world to a beautiful necklace and a necklace is filled with attractive jewels and he says underlying this necklace unifying its many jewels together is the thread and Krishna says he is the thread of truth that underlies and unifies all of existence so this is referring to God’s immanence in this world that he exists within this world and Krishna gives many examples of his immanence for example I am the taste of water I am the fragrance of the earth so this list is indicative it is not exhaustive it is meant to indicate that this is how we can perceive the presence of God in this world so I will first just explain the scriptural section and then we will move forward to the concept a little bit more after describing how he is present in this world in fact Krishna also includes in that list the activity that we normally think as having the highest potential to take our consciousness away from him that is sexuality and Krishna says in that same very list dharma aviruddho bhuteshu kamosmi bharatarshabha that even in that activity when reproduction happens through it that is a miracle and it is God who makes that miracle happen so immanence of God means that we are able to perceive God’s presence in this world itself after speaking this however Krishna emphasises that his existence extends beyond this world in 7.13 he states 7.12 and 13 he says so he says that all these states of existence they come from me I don’t come from them so in 7.12 and 13 he says these come from the modes he says the modes come from me they are in me I am not in them and then he says that we are all bewildered because everything in this world is covered by 3 modes so basically he is saying there is this veil of illusion that prevents us from perceiving him although he is present in this world and beyond this world we are unable to perceive him but still we can surrender to him so this is the concept of the transcendence and the immanence of God so let’s look at this from other perspective that if we consider what transcendence and immanence means see the normal conception is say this is the material level of reality and this is the spiritual level of reality and Krishna exists at the spiritual level and that’s the idea is that we practise bhakti and go from this world to the spiritual world while this is a valid understanding it is not the complete understanding the other understanding is that actually everything is contained within Krishna even this world is contained within Krishna so when we are to practise bhakti it is not just by turning away from this world toward Krishna rather we can turn toward this world, serve Krishna in this world and thereby also go towards Krishna so this is the approach that focusses on the transcendence of Krishna or Krishna exists beyond this world but this is the approach which focusses on the immanence of Krishna that Krishna exists even in this world Krishna talks about this in 1846 for example he talks about this in 815 well known verse he says he says you will attain the supreme destination beyond this world of distress if you take shelter of me so one way is just turn away from this world and come to me but that is not the only thing that Krishna recommends he says understand that from me the whole world has emanated by me the whole world is pervaded and thus through the work that you do you can worship me and attain me sometimes this is simplistically mistranslated as work is worship that is not what Krishna is saying he is saying through your work worship me but the idea is God is both immanent and transcendent and understanding these two aspects of God is very important now if we go back over here to this idea A I have envisioned this as a pendulum now pendulum can go towards two extremes now if we focus only on the transcendence of God what happens is God is far away from this world God exists in the spiritual world if that is our only conception of God now in our tradition it is true Bhagawan exists in the spiritual world so Bhagawan is the transcendental aspect of God but there is also Paramatma He is the immanent aspect of God if we focus only on the transcendent aspect God can seem too remote He can seem too unconcerned you may start thinking you know I am facing this problem and that problem I have so many challenges externally internally and Krishna is playing his flute in the spiritual world enjoying with the Gopis does he even know what I am going through so God can seem very remote and unconcerned and most importantly it is this is more in terms of the conception of God but practically for us God can seem inaccessible because if God is only spiritual sorry God is only non material that is the emphasis of spiritual over here that God is only manifest at the non material level and we exist in the material world our senses are material our eyes are material our body is material God becomes inaccessible he becomes very remote and that’s how God starts feeling inaccessible and eventually starts feeling irrelevant God is so far away how does he matter in my life now on the other hand if we go towards the other extreme and focus only on God’s immanence then the idea of immanence is very important to understand different traditions at different times have swerved in the pendulum in different directions so now these two ideas that God’s transcendence and God’s immanence have both been there throughout human history in the world’s various theologies in the Indian history the bhakti tradition especially during the mediaeval times which were a time of great religious persecution because of the Islamic rule in India so the bhakti tradition started becoming more and more focused on transcendence that turn away from this world just immerse yourself in the divine now that is valid sometimes when we just can’t change anything in this world we need to turn away from the world but that is not the only approach to bhakti Krishna is so concerned about this world that he descends to this world again and again for dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge Arjuna wanted to turn away from the world but Krishna told him turn towards the world fight in this world for establishing order so at different times across history the emphasis of particular traditions may go towards transcendence or too much towards immanence and in the bhakti tradition often that transcendent aspect has been emphasised according to time and place but that emphasis can make people impractical or otherworldly or irrelevant there was a survey done in America a decade or so ago maybe a couple of decades ago what are general people’s perception of the Hare Krishnas says a bunch of jolly impractical people now we go around dancing on the street singing and it may seem that we have nothing to do with this world yeah we are jolly we are happy but do we address the issues of the world at all so is our only response to any problem in the world this world is ukkhal I get out of it so actually immanence if it is neglected as I said it can seem very irrelevant and many bhakti theologians now are emphasising how immanence is a part of the vedic tradition there is an environmental crisis of course there is politics associated with it and it has become a polarising issue but undoubtedly there is some problem with the way we have handled the environment the dispute is over how we should respond to it but the idea is even many mainstream scientists and thinkers are saying that we need to infuse our efforts to take care of the environment with a vision of the sacred and that vision of the sacred is actually most directly emphasised in the vedic tradition in the bhakti tradition through the idea of the universal form that the universe is actually the body of God that is the most vivid visualisation of the immanence of God that the trees are like the hair on the body of the Lord and the mountains and the peaks are like the bones on the body of the Lord it’s a visualisation no doubt but that visualisation is given within the tradition and that is indicated to emphasise the immanence of the Lord so the purpose of emphasising immanence is to actually show that infuse divinity within creation within nature that nature is not just profane nature is not just mundane that actually it is divine it is infused with divinity now the problem with immanence taken too far is that it can lead to what is called as pantheism pan is everything like a pan-european endeavour that means an endeavour that encompasses all of Europe so pantheism is the idea that everything is God now the problem with this idea is that God becomes reduced to nature that God is considered to be the sum total of all things and when pantheism holds that God is the sum total of all of material existence and that God has no self-existence beyond nature so God becomes reducible to nature that there is no personhood to God there is no personality to God as some being existing beyond nature in the Isha Upanishad it says the Lord is inside everything but the Lord is also outside everything that the idea of immanence taken too far makes God seem to be nothing more than nature itself and many scientists who are theistic often go towards this idea of God as nature so in the European tradition Spinoza was a prominent proponent of that Einstein’s God, there are books written about that whole conception and his God also seemed to be more this pantheistic naturalistic kind of deity so Einstein has made quotes attributed to him which talk about his acceptance of the existence of God but there are also quotes about him which say that he doesn’t believe in the God of religion so his idea of God was complex he went through his own challenging experiences in life including witnessing the holocaust and escaping it, that naturally affected his conception of God also, but the point is that for him the idea of nature and nature being filled with some brilliant organisation for such people, the laws of nature themselves are equated with the divine so God loses his self existence and when God becomes reducible to nature then God essentially ends up becoming impotent why? because there is nothing beyond this world to which God will deliver us this world is all that there is and the laws of nature are themselves God so what will God do to intervene and deliver us so this idea, immanence taken too far is a problem that it makes God seem just okay it’s nice to worship God but there is no use to pray to such a God because God is nature and God can’t intervene in nature in that sense now the balanced understanding is in between that God is both transcendent and immanent now when Prabhupada would sometimes say the holy name is transcendental what his emphasis was that actually when we are uttering the holy name it’s a sound coming from the same throat with which we are speaking other words so in that sense somebody might argue that it’s just a material sound but actually Krishna manifests within that material sound so actually Prabhupada is emphasising the non material manifestation that is there within that materially produced sound so he is actually talking about the immanence of God when he is emphasising the transcendence that Krishna is present within this sacred sound so now if we understand both Krishna’s immanence and transcendence together what happens by that that when we understand that Krishna is immanent that means we understand that he is accessible to us that he is never far away from us that at every moment in our hearts in our lives Krishna is with us within us he is closer to us than the closest person to us can be even if we hold them in the tightest of hugs he is closer to us than the most secret thought in our heart that we dare not even voice to anyone he is that close to us always so Krishna is always accessible to us that is the assurance that we get when we understand his immanence and he is not just within us when we look at nature when we observe the majesty and the beauty and the artistry of the world we can see that as a manifestation of the divine intelligence so God is accessible for us that’s what comes from understanding the immanence sorry I’ll put it over here when we understand Krishna’s immanence we understand that he is accessible now when we understand Krishna’s transcendence we understand that he is infallible he is infallible he is achyuta that he is not subjected to the vagaries of the world sometimes one day we meet a person and that person seems to be so warm and caring and loving I feel oh such a nice person I want to have a relationship with this person and then next day we meet and that person seems to be in a completely different mood and suddenly what happened yesterday you treated me as if I was your best friend today you are treating me as if I don’t even exist so the modes affect the moods of everyone and because of that the people they they may just be unpredictably variable and that’s what often makes relationships difficult but Krishna is not affected by the modes Krishna is suhrdam sarva bhutanam he is the well wisher of everyone at all times he never abandons us he never turns away from us he never rejects us he never loses the power to be able to help us now somebody may want to help us in this world but the nature of the world is that now if Krishna were non-emanent non-transcendent rather if Krishna were in this world then he would become something similar to a person in this world now the problem in this of people in this world is that they are fallible why fallible? because the world itself there are changes sometimes there are internal changes where people’s moods may change but there are external changes when their power may change so a person may promise I will help you when you are in trouble but maybe tomorrow they don’t have that position they don’t have that wealth they don’t have that energy they don’t have that intelligence everything in this world is temporary so in this world because the material world is changing Krishna says the only unchanging thing in this world is that nothing is unchanging the only constant is change the only unchanging thing is nothing is unchanging that’s why if we depend exclusively on any person in this world that will disappoint us in fact Prabhupada in the first canto he says that one of the problems for the shortening of life span and agitation of mind in Kalyuga is over dependence on another’s mercy because people are so unpredictable and especially with respect to today’s world minds are so unpredictable that’s why people are often very reserved about even opening up for relationships because it’s difficult to count on others but Krishna is not subjected to this material vicissitudes he is someone we can always count on so when we understand that Krishna is both infallible and accessible that’s how we understand that he is supremely desirable for us he is the person whom we should desire he is the person whom we should long for he is the person whose aid we need to seek aid is the acronym over here he is accessible he is infallible he is supremely desirable he is the person who can aid us in all situations he is never far away he is never powerless it is he who always wants us it is he who comes to this world again and again to reclaim us it is he who desires us already it is we who just need to desire him in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says the purpose of sadhana bhakti is that atchittam samadha tum nashakno simai sthiram abhyasa yogena tato mam icchaptum dhananjaya Krishna says when we practise remembrance, when we do sadhana bhakti the purpose of this is our desire for Krishna should increase. So when we hear about Krishna, when we hear his various pastimes we could just see them as entertaining stories but if you understand that this is actually the Lord, then our desire to take shelter of that Lord will increase and the greater our desire, the greater will be our perception of the Lord.
The Lord doesn’t want to hide himself from us this is the last point I’ll conclude with the Lord doesn’t want to hide himself from us. If he is invisible to us, that’s not because he wants to stay invisible. It’s because for us we want many other things to be visible more than him it’s like sometimes what happens is say someone doesn’t want to talk with us and we are standing right in front of them and they are talking with the person next to here and person here and person here I’m right in front of you but if they don’t want to talk then just keep looking here and there and there.
So like that, if we are unable to perceive Krishna, that’s because we are too eager to see other things in this world and that is what when our desire it is misdirected the misdirected desire has two effects to us first it is binding and second it is blinding these are the two energies of the Lord, Avaranatmika and Prakshepatmika so Avaran is covering so there is the Avaranatmika Shakti by which what happens the we become blinded to the Lord and that is Prakshepatmika Prakshepatmika means throwing throwing. Our consciousness gets thrown or pulled towards various objects in this world and that’s how we forget the Lord. Say suppose someone goes to watch a movie and maybe their best friend sitting right next to them, maybe a small child is gone and mother is sitting right next to the child but say it’s a horror movie or whatever and as soon as the movie starts, two things happen the lights around go off and the light in front goes on now both of these do the same thing they just pull the consciousness away from everything around towards the illusion that is there on the screen so the lights around us going off, that is the Avaranatmika Shakti that is what blinds us and the lights on the screen going on that is the Prakshepatmika Shakti.
That’s what pulls us towards illusion so now it’s a horror movie and the child is horrified, child may be trembling now the mother is sitting right next to the child ready to comfort and pacify the child but the child is completely caught so like that Purusha prakriti stho hi bhunkte prakriti jan gunan karanam guna sangosya sad asad yoni janmasu in 13.23 Krishna states that it is because we are so desirous of enjoying the things of this world that we forget the Lord that we get we get subject to these two effects, the blinding and the binding potency of illusion but nonetheless if we just turn towards Krishna as much as we can we try to remember him whenever we can how much we can gradually we’ll start awakening we’ll start perceiving Krishna and even during our chanting during our hearing we may not be able to concentrate constantly but even a little bit concentration that is the beginning of the dissipation of illusion sometimes it is Krishna’s transcendence that may inspire us to take shelter of him sometimes it is Krishna’s immanence that may inspire us to take shelter of him sometimes we hear some wonderful pastime of Krishna which he does with his devotees and we feel this is the world I long for, this is where I belong this is where I want to go to so that’s the transcendence appealing to us, sometimes we we chant and we feel some divine power, sometimes we participate in kirtan, sometimes we behold the beautiful darshan and we feel some sublime presence, it’s not that I have to go to the spiritual world to be with Krishna, there is something mystical right here with me that is the time when the immanence of Krishna is pulling us however we feel the pull of Krishna, whether it is by his transcendence or by his immanence we gratefully value that pull, we gratefully let ourselves be drawn towards our Krishna we let our desire for him keep increasing and in that way we will all one day experience Krishna in this world with us and ultimately experience Krishna beyond this world, so I’ll summarise what I discussed today I talked about, the broad topic was that taking shelter of Krishna so the verse itself talks about the transcendence of Krishna that with the wings of scripture we can fly into the sky towards Krishna that is talking about transcendence, but then it’s also talking about the immanence of Krishna where there are sacred rivers which can purify us here while we are in this world so that is what is being indicated in this verse itself, so then the key theme we discussed is about how if the when we understand the transcendence of the Lord the positive of that is that we understand that he is infallible that he exists beyond this world but if it’s taken too much the transcendence is emphasised then he becomes, he appears too remote, too unconcerned, he just exists in his world and then it starts appearing that as if he is inaccessible to us so transcendence is the idea that God is beyond nature and then the immanence of Krishna that on the positive side it makes us understand that he is always accessible to us, but again it’s too much then it makes God reducible to this world itself in trying to infuse divinity into everything if we have pantheism, pantheism basically takes divinity out of everything because pantheism takes away the self existence of God itself it can make God important or irrelevant so we want the balance of both of these and we discussed how the transcendence of Krishna is talked about in 7, 12, 13 and the immanence of Krishna is talked about 7, 7 to 11 as well as in 1846 Chathapravitirbhutana so the balance is on one side is too much transcendence too much immanence in between if you understand that from the transcendence we understand Krishna is infallible, from his immanence we understand that he is accessible now whatever inspires us through it all, we understand that Krishna is always desirable so whichever way somehow or the other fix in mind is Krishna that means sometimes through his immanence we may be inspired sometimes his transcendence we may be inspired, but somehow we try to trigger our desire for Krishna and by that we will all ultimately attain Krishna so I’ll just on this theme I’ve composed a small poetic prayer to Krishna, so I’ll conclude with that from the illusions that take me away take me oh lord from those illusions away Shri Krishna Bhagwan ki Shri Prabhupada ki Jai are there any questions yes please is there a mic Hare Krishna you mentioned the term mercy and that we might be looking to the material world to others for mercy for what mercy you mentioned that we may be looking for others for mercy over dependence on others I wonder if you could explain a little bit more about that term mercy, what we might be looking for in others over dependence and how that might differ from the mercy that we might seek from Krishna well politics has become the new religion I was just in America America is highly polarised, people think that a particular political leader will save the world, will save the country and India also is something similar political changes can make a difference no doubt and a good leader is definitely better than a bad leader but the level of polarisation it is not just 20-30 years ago when talking with my devotee friends in America people didn’t care whom you voted for now if you voted for this person I won’t even talk with you it’s almost like religious shunning of someone so some survey was done even say people say somebody who is a Democrat refuses to marry somebody who is a Republican and Republicans also return the same favour in America so the idea is that think that some person in this world if just that person is elected all problems will be solved that is a vivid example in today’s world of elevating someone to the level of God of becoming too dependent on someone’s mercy this is not to say again that there is a difference between say competent and incompetent rulers there is a difference between benevolent and malevolent rulers, no doubt but over dependence on someone’s mercy means that we basically outsource the responsibility for improving our lives to that person it is we have to take responsibility yes thank you for the very nice class bringing us all the sort of illustration of what is happening I’ve got here several references it’s in Srikakshakam we have to express the desire to see Krishna and it says ayi nanda tanujam kingaram patitam mam vishami bhavam bhodo kripaya dava padapam kaja sutahita sutih satrisham vichinda O son of Maharaj Nanda I’m your eternal servitor yet somehow or other I’ve fallen into this ocean of birth and death please pick me up from as an atom then it says the supreme lord is situated in everyone’s heart and directing the wonderings of all the living entities who are seated as on a machine made of the material energy O son of Bharat surrender unto him utterly by his grace you will attain transcendental peace and reach the eternal abode but then Prabhupada says, there’s a quote here of the secret of surrendering to Krishna that such a surrendered soul sees that everything is part of Krishna’s plan whatever I am meant to be whatever I am doing let me do it with my full attention to every detail it says then let all other considerations be forgotten and my only desire is to do the best for Krishna’s alone pleasure is my motive Thank you beautiful references 1862 that comes right after Krishna talks about his eminence I am inside the heart of every living being so surrender to me