How intelligence and devotion interact on the spiritual path – 3 reflections

[Bhagavatam class on 4.20.32 at ISKCON, Melbourne, Australia]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
standards and philosophy. Hare Krishna. So, today morning, I’ll discuss on the topic of how intelligence and devotion interact on the journey towards liberation.
How both of them play their roles in taking a beyond illusion, beyond temptation towards liberation. I’ll speak three points. First point is that not everyone can be intellectual, but everyone can be intelligent.
The second point I’ll talk about is how intelligence is a component of devotion, not a competitor to devotion. And the last point will be that let intelligence be your minister, not your master. So, let’s look at these points one by one.
So, here, the context is that the Lord is telling Buddha Maharaj, Buddha Maharaj has offered prayers to Lord Vishnu, who has appeared in the sacrificial assembly to receive his sacrifice. And after that, Buddha Maharaj has glorified Lord Vishnu’s prayers. And Lord Vishnu is saying that through your prayers you have exhibited intelligence.
And may you always manifest devotion the way you have manifested now. And by such devotion, you will, this devotion is the way to go beyond illusion, to go towards liberation. In fact, this is the only way, he says.
So, let’s look at the context over here is that the Lord is saying that the way you, the prayers that you offered to me, and the actions that you did, that is, when he could have insisted on performing the hundred sacrifices, but he let go of it. So, it’s significant that there is the activity of sacrifice and there is the mentality of sacrifice. So, the activity of sacrifice is that when some yajna is performed, at that time, something which is dear for us, we offer it into the fire sacrifice.
So, the idea is, what could be used for our own enjoyment? It could be ghee, it could be grains, it could be silk, whatever it is. We use it, we put it in the sacrificial fire. What could be used for our enjoyment, we give it for a higher cause.
So, now, sacrifice is a ritual. It’s a practise. It’s a ceremony, which is important.
But the essence of that is that one has to have a sacrificing mentality. And so, we can say that Prithu sacrificed his sacrifice. Prithu, what did he do? He sacrificed, means gave up the idea of doing a hundred sacrifices.
The sacrifice did not please Lord Vishnu as much as the sacrifice of the sacrifice. So, when he gave up the sacrifice, that pleased Lord Vishnu more than doing the sacrifice. Why? Because that avoided conflict between him and Indra.
So, the Lord is saying, in this way, when you manifested some selflessness, some sacrificing mentality, this intelligence that you showed has pleased me. Intelligence through your actions and through your prayers has pleased me. And thus, bless you that you may have that may you have devotion.
And by that devotion, maya madhyam tatatis madhusudhya jnanam, you will be able to cross beyond the illusory energy. So, now, many people, the first point I am discussing in this context is that not everyone can be intellectual, but everyone can be intelligent. Intellectual refers to a person who has a lot of information processing ability.
They can remember a lot, they can quote a verse from here, they can quote a reference from there, they can remember this point, that point, that point. Now, that is an intellectual. So, intellectuals are primarily defined by the capacity to memorise, by the capacity to recollect, by the capacity to analyse, to categorise, to synthesise.
Basically, to do a lot with information. And somebody can be a scientist who may be an intellectual, somebody can be a religious scholar who can be an intellectual, somebody can be a scriptural scholar who can be an intellectual. Now, this information processing ability is something which is more or less, you could say, a Brahmanical quality.
We know there are four broad human types. You could call them as the Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Shudras. There are, they are, they are not just human types.
Generally, those who are of the Brahmanical nature, they have good intellectual ability. And the remaining Varanas, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, Shudras, they may or may not have that much intellectual ability. So, not everybody can be an intellectual.
Because that is a gift that some people get by past karma. But, everybody can be intelligent. Now, intelligence is essentially decision making ability.
The ability to discern right from wrong and to choose the right course of action. The ability to discern between the short term and the long term. The material and the spiritual.
The impulsive, something which feels impulsively good and something which is actually good in the long run. So, that capacity to differentiate is intelligence. And this is what Krishna talks about in the 18th chapter of the Bhagavad Gita also when he says that intelligence means to understand, the buddhi, intelligence means what I should do and what I should not do.
This action is fearful. I should be afraid of doing it. And this action, I should not be afraid of doing it.
That, that, this will cause me bondage. And this will lead me to progress, towards liberation. So, understanding all this about action, this is intelligence.
So, it’s interesting, Krishna is talking about pravrtti, nivrtti. Pravrtti, nivrtti means broadly speaking that which we are inclined to do and that which we are disinclined to do. With respect to action, some actions we are inclined to do, some actions we are disinclined to do.
And, similarly, some action, inclination you could say is innate. Some people, just as soon as they come to a place, they look around at the aesthetics. And if something is untidy, they will start sorting it out.
Some people are natural, say, visual intelligence or home giving intelligence. Some people, if they are seeing some text, they will say, okay, verbal intelligence, this is not written so well, this is written nicely. So, all of us have certain innate tendencies.
Now, not all innate tendencies are to be acted on innately. So, that’s when to act, when not to act. Another thing, bhaya-bhaya refers to our emotional reaction to certain actions.
I can’t do this. I will do this. I want to do this.
So, now, based on the kind of society we are living in, certain actions may be frowned upon. May be, may lead us to trouble. So, now, sometimes there may be the right action, but doing it may cause trouble.
Say, for example, in certain parts of the world, there is no religious freedom. And, if somebody tries to live according to their faith, they may be persecuted. They may be tortured.
They may even be executed. So, now, naturally, there will be some fear at that time to profess one’s faith. And there may be a tendency to deny or conceal one’s faith.
So, now, we may have certain, by default, fear of certain actions. But, if it is the right thing to do, still, we will do it. We may not do it publicly, but we will continue doing it.
So, what is to be feared and what is not to be feared is not necessarily determined by what we fear and what we don’t fear. There are two different things. There are certain things which we fear, but that need not be feared.
So, what is to be feared and what is to not be feared is not necessarily determined by what we fear and what we don’t fear. So, a child may not fear running in the middle of the street, but that should be feared. And, a person who is living in an atheistic country or an aggressively anti-theistic country may fear practising their religion, but that should not be feared.
We should still continue our practise, discreetly, but still we should continue it. So, Krishna is saying that this capacity to discern what we should do and what we should not do. So, first, Krishna talks about innate relation and second, Krishna talks about our emotional reaction and third, he talks about the consequence.
Bandham moksham chayavetti. That what will lead to bonding and what will lead to liberation. Based on that, we can decide which action to do and which action not to do.
So, this capacity to discern right and wrong course of actions, that is intelligence. And this, every human being needs to have. Everyone can have and everyone needs to have.
Because everyone does make decisions. And if we are not having intelligence, then we may make bad decisions. So, not everyone can be an intellectual in terms of having phenomenal information processing capacity.
Not everybody can remember verses, not everybody can quote from here, quote from there. Not everybody can have a great memory or a great analytical ability, but in terms of decision making, should I do this, should I not do this? That is intelligence. And everyone can be intelligent.
So, not everyone can memorise scriptural verses. You all can try as much as possible. But the essential scriptural message of how to hold our life, that is something we all can learn from scripture.
And we can use that in our spiritual life. Not just in our spiritual life, even in our day to day life. So, the study of scripture is meant to make us intelligent.
And some of us will become intellectual. But even if we can’t become intellectual, we can all become intelligent. And it is this intelligence that is manifested through the practise of bhakti.
So, when we have that capacity to discern, then we understand that actually Krishna is the ultimate object of love for me. And let me devote myself to Him right now. Whether I feel like it or I don’t feel like it, let me perceive Him in the practise of bhakti.
Because emotions are fickle. They will come and go. But life’s realities are not determined by our present emotions about those realities.
So, that capacity to perceive Him comes from our intelligence. So, this is the first point that not everyone can be intellectual. But everyone can be intelligent.
Any reflections on this? Yes. This intelligence is very important. When I was thinking about how to get this, and you also said, people should have intelligence.
Yeah, I see. And I was also thinking of the Buddha’s teaching which also says something of this kind. Strong intelligence, strong intelligence, strong intelligence means saving money, saving money means peace, that peace you have.
Excellent. Yes. Krishna says, if you are not connected with the Divine, then you cannot have steady intelligence.
Yes. Intelligence you can all develop by practising bhakti. Thank you.
So, any other reflections or questions? So, the second point I was going to speak on is that intelligence is a component of devotion, not a competitor to devotion. So, there is jnana and there is jnana marga. So, jnana is knowledge.
Jnana marga is the path of knowledge. So, every devotee has to have jnana. But a devotee is not a jnani in terms of a follower of a jnana marga.
So, jnana, so that means knowledge is something everyone requires. Even if somebody is not a spiritualist also, even if somebody is a barber or a carpenter or a cobbler, they also need knowledge. So, knowledge is something everyone needs.
But, when we talk about jnana as in jnana marga, that is the knowledge which is where analysis and knowledge are seen as the sole means to spiritual realisation, to spiritual growth. So, that often in our scriptures, like here also Prabhupada says, it is called as speculative knowledge, speculative philosophy, that no one can go beyond illusion by speculative philosophy. So, this is jnana marga.
And jnana marga is something which is often seen as in competition with bhakti marga. So, if somebody pursues spiritual growth only through analysis, only through discernment, only through intellect, but doesn’t practise anything, their only practise is analysis, then that is not a sustainable way for most people to move spiritually. So, that’s what it is.
So, if somebody considering jnana as a component of jnana marga, then it becomes a competitor to devotion. And why a competitor? Generally, the more we exercise our intelligence and the more we are able to exercise our intelligence effectively, that means using our intelligence we are able to make sounder decisions, then that tends to create within us a sense of superiority over others. I know this answer.
They don’t. I can analyse this. They can’t.
So, if all that we do is analysis, then gradually that starts creating within us a sense of superiority over those who can’t analyse as well as we do. And analysis also leads to the focus on the idea that, okay, all this is matter and I am spirit. And therefore, I am above all this.
So, by analysis, one puts oneself above the material world and one puts oneself above people who most of them are materialistic. And, this way, often analysis can reliance only on intellect. Reliance only on the jnana marga.
On intelligence alone. Not the intellect. Usually, people who follow the jnana marga, they not just have intelligence, they have intellect.
Because they can keep analysing this. This is like this. This is like this.
So, they often have their own sense of ego increased by that. Because they think, I am superior to everyone else. Now, there is a difference between say, we are an example.
See, it’s said that we are all meant to set examples for others. Now, when we say set an example for others, this is how we should act. So, when we set an example for others, that doesn’t mean we are better than others.
It means we are an example of something better. We are not someone better. We are an example of something better.
What is the difference between the two? That we are someone better means, you are down here and I am here. We are an example of something better. That means, when we try to practise the principles of bhakti yoga diligently, and by that our consciousness rises, by this our intelligence rises, by there our morality and virtue and our conduct improve, then we are an example of the potency of devotion.
So, we want to be, we don’t want to be better than others. We want to be a better example than others. We want to be an example of something better.
So, otherwise the attempt of setting an example can also lead to the increase of the ego. Say, I wake up early in the morning. This person doesn’t wake up early in the morning.
I fast on Ekadashi. This person doesn’t fast. I do this austerity.
This person doesn’t do. I may say, I am doing this as to set an example for you. But you are not following my example, therefore you are following.
So, even setting an example can be done out of ego or it can be done in the mood of service. So, the difference, defining difference is, when we set an example, if our vision is downwards, for all these people, I am setting an example. Then we are putting ourselves above it.
But if our example is upwards, Bhakti Devi is far greater than me. Krishna is far greater than me. And Bhakti and Krishna can elevate even a soul like me.
And therefore, I am letting Bhakti Devi principles of devotion manifest through me by practising their disciplines. Then, the vision is focused higher. So, this is the difference between Bhakti and Jnana.
In Bhakti also, we use our intelligence. But in Bhakti, the vision is not focused on others. The vision is focused on Krishna.
So, because the vision is focused on Krishna, the more a devotee practises Bhakti, the more a devotee does analysis, that analysis leads to an increasing awareness of Krishna’s greatness. So, this is a whole big subject how Jnana in the Bhakti Marga and Jnana in Jnana Marga, how they are different. Jiva Goswami talks about this elaborately in the Shat Sandarvas, in the first Sandarvas, Datta Sandarva.
I won’t go into all that, but this one point I will focus. That if one simply does analysis without having a vision of something higher, then all that it means is that I am superior. But when the purpose of our analysis is to shift our vision to something higher, then the more we analyse, the more we understand how much Krishna is greater than me.
Yes, I may be presently better than others, but my vision is not focused on how I am better than others. My vision is focused on how Krishna is so much greater. So, the analysis and devotion leads to an increasing appreciation of Krishna’s glories.
And when that happens, the analysis brings humility. Generally, the people who know a little bit, they often become proud of their knowledge. But people who know a lot, they actually become humble.
Just as a standard example is Okay, Einstein. Yes, we have trees, trees that are filled with flowers, with fruits, they bow down. Now, trees which are completely barren, they go talk.
So, generally when a tree is laden with fruits and flowers, it bows down. So, basically what happens is that the more we truly develop knowledge in any field in general, then at one level knowledge may make us think, I know so much. But if we truly develop knowledge, then we understand there is so much more to know.
There is so much more to know. Now, a child who starts learning mathematics, a child learns a little algebra, learns a few tables, they say, I know so much. It’s good to have a sense of achievement that I learned something.
But, they think, I know everything. But, then there is so much more to know. So, if we look at all that we know, we can become proud.
I know so much. But, if we look at how much more there is to know, then we’ll become humble. The same way, in Gyanamadha, what the Jnanis see is, this illusion I rejected, this temptation I rejected, this misconception I have overcome.
And, this way, they see how much they have come to know, how much they have overcome. And, that leads to a sense of superiority and ego. But, for a devotee, a devotee’s focus is always on so much I don’t know.
Krishna’s glories are infinite, infinite. And, thus, it is that Arjun says that, my dear Lord, even if I hear Your glories are such that, I know I cannot hear them forever. I cannot know them in full.
But, at least as an example, tell me something about Your glories. And, that’s what Krishna also says. As an indication, I’ll tell you.
So, when intelligence makes us think that I know so much, then that intelligence can become a competitor to our devotion. Because that intelligence makes us direct our vision towards the world. See, I know this, I know this.
It directs our vision towards people in the world. And, makes us think, I know so much more than you. But, when intelligence is used to direct our vision towards Krishna, then intelligence enables us to increase our appreciation for Krishna.
Just like, all of us, many of us are from India, so we may have grown up with hearing some stories about Krishna in our childhood. And, that’s nice. We know something about Krishna.
But, then, when we understand the philosophy of Krishna consciousness, then Krishna doesn’t stay just as like a maybe a Hindu god or an entertainment character. Krishna is the ultimate reality. He is the object of enlightenment.
So, he is the ultimate objective of enlightenment, actually. So, that understanding is, it deepens our appreciation of Krishna. Earlier, you just hear, saw some, maybe, some TV serials about Krishna.
We may have thought of Krishna as the object of entertainment. There is this cartoon character, there is this character, there is this TV serial. Krishna is also one of them.
Maybe, a little more pious, little more religious. But, Krishna is the object of entertainment. But, when we get knowledge and we understand, Krishna is not an object of entertainment.
He is the objective of enlightenment. The enlightened souls devote themselves to him. That, those who truly know, they devote themselves completely to Krishna.
It’s 15.19 in the Bhagavad Gita. So, this is the second point, that when intelligence makes us think that I know so much, then, that becomes a competitor to devotion. But, when intelligence makes us feel that there is so much more to know about Krishna and about Krishna’s energy in this world, then, intelligence becomes a component of devotion.
Because, it stimulates us to deepen our appreciation for Krishna. So, any reflections or any questions about this? Yes. Hmm.
Beautiful. Yes. If you have any ability, just appreciate the mercy.
Suppose, a child doesn’t even know the value of currency. And, somebody gives him a lot of currency. He says, OK, I got something.
But, somebody who has the, who understands the value of currency, and somebody gives him a lot of currency, they will count. And, they will appreciate how incredibly generous this person is. So, like that, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy is so extraordinary.
We have intelligence. So, anybody, even a child who doesn’t appreciate the value of currency, can also be enriched by the currency. The child may not appreciate the magnitude of the enrichment.
But, somebody who has understanding of currency, then they analyse, they understand the magnitude of the gift. The same applies to mercy. So, the greater the intelligence we have, the greater we can appreciate the magnitude of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy.
Beautiful. Thank you. Yes.
Actually, the necessity in the jnana of jnana is like this. The person is very important for for bhakti yogi. The role is Krishna, for the jnana.
The role is actually to analyse things, but ultimately it takes up to Krishna. Krishna used as to know Krishna. That’s why what we know, what we know is not as important as what we want to know.
Somebody may know a lot, but all that they want to know is how much people know how much I know. They don’t want to know Krishna. Somebody may know a little, but they don’t want to know Krishna.
Some people have knowledge, but the goal of their knowledge is to earn worldly praise. Somebody may have little knowledge, but the goal of their knowledge is Krishna. So, what we know is not as important as what we want to know.
So, let’s move on to the last point now. The second point I discussed was that let intelligence be a component of devotion, not a competitor to devotion. And related to that I am going to say, the third point is, on the devotional part, let intelligence be the minister, not the master.
So, minister means the intellect, the sake of a king has a minister. The minister is the advisor. Okay, you know, I think we should do this.
Maybe we should not do this. Now, the intelligence is wise, the minister is wise, then definitely the king will be, is blessed to have a wise minister like that. At the same time, the minister is not a decision maker.
It is the king who is the decision maker. So, similarly for us, our intelligence is a very important guide for us on the spiritual path. At the same time, the intelligence, as I said, intelligence helps us to make the right decisions.
And in that sense, intelligence is very important. But intelligence alone cannot be the decision maker. Why not? Because Krishna is so great that he is beyond the intelligence.
Now, when we say he is beyond the intelligence, it doesn’t mean that we have to give up the intelligence. There is a difference between giving up the intelligence and going beyond the intelligence. So, if you could say there is intelligent, below that is unintelligent.
And above that is trans-intelligent. You could say there is rational, there is irrational, but there is a trans-rational. So, what do we mean by above the intelligent? Above the intelligence? Jiva Goswami again says in the Sandar verse that if our intelligence alone could understand God, if our intelligence alone could understand the Supreme, then the intelligence will become the Supreme.
If our intelligence alone can understand the Supreme, then that means the intelligence is superior to the Supreme. The intelligence can conquer the Supreme. Which is not possible.
So, the intelligence can aid us in understanding many things about the Supreme. But if we put the Supreme to intellectual scrutiny alone, and we think that the Supreme has to be subordinate to our intellectual scrutiny, then that is a incomplete understanding of both the Supreme and intelligence. Now, what do I mean by this? If you consider the Brahma Vimohan Veela in the 10th canto of the Bhagavatam, it is described how Brahma at one time saw Krishna playing with his friends.
And Krishna was playing with his friends. That day Madhumangal was one of his Brahmana friends, had brought some buttermilk, some chhaach. Now, Madhumangal is from a little poor family, so the buttermilk that he had brought was not that good.
And, of course, he also likes to, he likes, Madhumangal he loves to eat. So, Madhumangal got the buttermilk, he drank it, and he thought, okay, Krishna has got so many other foods to eat, and this is not of such a good quality. So, he said, if we all sit and take the food together, at that time, then Krishna will also ask for what is there in mine.
I can take that. And I have to give this to him. This is not worthy of Krishna.
So, he said, this is not good enough for Krishna to take. So, thinking like this, as they were about to take their food or sit down and take, he sneaked away and went behind a bush. And there, behind that bush, he sat down and started drinking the buttermilk, all alone.
And Krishna looked around and said, Madhumangal, where is he gone? He said, searching. And as he came, he saw Madhumangal drinking buttermilk. And Krishna was running towards him.
And when Krishna saw that, when Madhumangal saw that, he is coming and what Madhumangal did was, suppose we are drinking something, and then we want to finish it hastily, he just poured it into the mouth. So, when he poured it into his mouth, then his cheeks swelled up. And then, Krishna came running over and Madhumangal thought, I have drunk all of it.
Now, Krishna cannot eat it. But Krishna came running, and Krishna tapped his cheeks. Now, when Krishna tapped his cheeks, at that time, the buttermilk came out of his mouth.
And some of the buttermilk fell on Krishna’s arms. And then, Krishna picked up a little bit and licked it. When Brahmani saw this, he got a culture.
Is this God? How can God drink something that has come out of someone’s mouth? It’s so dirty. Normally, if somebody is puritanical, they will be angry. Your spit has come out of my body.
They will immediately want to go and take a bath to cleanse themselves. But leave alone taking a bath, Krishna would actually take it and drink it. What is this? Could it process it? How can this be God? So, the idea is that in the first, we have to understand God’s position.
Then understand God’s action. If you go the other way, if you look at first at God’s action, and then, how can this be God? Then we misunderstand. Because Krishna, here, normally there are definitely rules of purity and rules of cleanliness, rules of sanitation.
But Krishna acts on the platform of love. And here, he wanted to reciprocate in a loving way with Mother Mangal. And Mother Mangal thought that this milk, this buttermilk is not good enough for Krishna.
Krishna wanted to say that, no, your mother has prepared it. You have brought it. I want to have it.
So, it was a loving exchange. Out of love, Mother Mangal felt that I should not give it to Krishna. And out of love, Krishna felt that I should have it.
So, this kind of love may not always be subject to logical analysis. There are many occasions in Krishna Leela, where Krishna does something which with our intelligence we will not be able to understand. And not just in Krishna Leela, it’s also in our own lives.
Sometimes we do one thing and something entirely different, unintelligible happens. We say, why is God letting this happen? I am praying to God, but why is God not helping me? So, if we think that we can understand God’s ways by our own intelligence, then that is a misunderstanding about both God and intelligence. So, if we let our spirituality, let our devotion be stuck within the limitation of what our intelligence can understand, then our devotion can become unstuck.
Our devotion can become limited. Because wherever things don’t make sense with our intelligence, we will immediately become averse to it. Now, of course, we say, things should make sense according to intelligence.
Yes, they should. And they will. But not always immediately.
Just as in any field of knowledge, we approach with some humility that if somebody studies physics, then they understand physics is not that easy to understand. In fact, there is a quantum physicist who said that if you think you have understood quantum physics, you are totally confused. So, quantum physics, one of the principles in quantum physics is that it is extremely difficult to understand.
And those who study quantum physics, they know how complex it is. So, now still, there are many aspects of quantum physics that do work. That’s why much of our technology is based on quantum physics.
But still, in terms of understanding the fundamental concepts of quantum physics, it takes a long, long time. So, in any serious field of knowledge, we definitely use our intelligence. But we also understand that there is much that is beyond our intelligence.
And acknowledging that is not rejecting the intelligence. Acknowledging that is simply respecting the glory of reality. So, when physicists say that, oh, we don’t know this, they are not rejecting the value of physics.
They are saying the universe is so complex that we have not understood it. So, similarly, when we say that in Krishna Bhakti, there is something which we cannot understand. That is not rejecting the intelligence.
That is respecting the glory of Krishna and respecting the glory of Krishna Bhakti. The trans-intelligent is not a rejection of the intelligence. It is a respect of the glory of Krishna.
And this way, when we practise Bhakti, if some things don’t make sense with our intelligence, then we needn’t dwell on them. We needn’t obsess on them. But we don’t have to reduce our devotion to that.
That unless I understand this, I will not move forward with Bhakti. No, even if I don’t understand this, there is so much that moves and makes sense, let me move forward with this. In fact, Bhaktivinod Thakur, I’ll conclude with this point.
Bhaktivinod Thakur wrote, he gave a talk on the Bhagavata. And he talks very beautifully over there to the intellectuals of his time, the Bhadraloka, about what all are the challenges in understanding the Bhagavata and how to deal with the challenges. And he makes a very striking point that the fifth canto cosmology of the Bhagavatam is very difficult to understand.
And especially for somebody who comes from a empirical science, scientific world view, cosmology may seem just too far out. Now, there are of course ways in which it can be understood. But Bhaktivinod Thakur says that the fifth canto comes before the tenth canto.
And the idea is that somebody who is worshipping at the altar of rationality will be blocked by that and will not come to be able to worship Krishna and the tenth canto. Now, rationality is definitely important. But you don’t want to make rationality as a god whom you worship.
For us, the god is Krishna. And rationality is also one paraphernalia, one ingredient in our tool for worshipping Krishna. So, if we worship at the altar of rationality, then we can’t come to the level of worshipping Krishna steadily.
Because constantly this doesn’t make sense. And because this doesn’t make sense, I give up Krishna. No, this doesn’t make sense.
That simply indicates that I am finite and Krishna is infinite. Maybe by Krishna’s mercy, in future, this will make sense to me. But still, I will keep worshipping Krishna.
So, just like you say, if you want to do aarti, you want to do worship of the lord and we are using a lamp for it. Now, normally we move the lamp around the lord. But suppose we are in an open place, where there is a lot of wind over there.
Then, if we try to do aarti with a lamp, the lamp will get extinguished immediately. Now, when we have some open air kirtans or open air puja, at that time, often, devotees don’t use a lamp. They may use an incense over there.
They may use some other stick, whose flame doesn’t move forward up like that and doesn’t get extinguished. So, in particular situations, we may not be able to worship with the lamp. But we worship with the flowers, we worship with the incense sticks, we worship with water, we worship with other paraphernalia.
Similarly, in some situations, we may not be able to worship with the paraphernalia of the rational individuals. So, it’s only in some situations. Normally, rationality is also something that we use in Krishna’s service.
So, let intelligence be our minister, not our master. And if we have this ministerial attitude, then Krishna says that the more we use our intelligence, the more we are worshipping Him. Adhishtate chagayamam dharmyam samvadam avayam, gyan yajyen tenaam, vishtasyam iti mehmati In 18.78, Krishna says that those who study the sacred conversation of ours, those who study the Bhagavad Gita, they are worshipping me with their intelligence.
So, bhakti is not just about emotion. Bhakti is about using all our faculties to connect with Krishna. Our emotion and our reason.
And when we have that intention of devotion, that purpose of devotion, that even our reason becomes a paraphernalia, becomes a true object with which we worship Krishna. And thus, both our heart and our head can unitedly take us towards Krishna. So, I summarise.
I spoke on the topic of how intelligence and devotion together take us towards liberation, towards Krishna ultimately. So, the first point was that that not everyone can be intellectual, but everyone can be intelligent. Intellectual refers to one with information processing ability.
And brahminical people have that. Those who are not brahminical can still be intelligent, which means they can make decisions soundly. And talk about we make decisions based on our innate inclinations, our reflexive emotions and our perception of the consequences.
So, to know whether to act on our emotions, to know whether to act according to our inclinations, to know how to see the consequences, all this comprises intelligence. And all of us need intelligence to take, to do responsible decision making. And the study of scripture and especially the practise of bhakti can make us intelligent even if they don’t necessarily make us intellectual.
The second point was that let intelligence be a component of devotion, not a competitor to devotion. So, the jnana in jnana marga focusses on, in the path of knowledge alone, the focus is on trying to reject illusion, reject temptation through discrimination. And we think that I have seen through this temptation, I have seen through this temptation.
People are not able to see through it. So, we think we are superior to illusion and we are superior to people who are in illusion. And that can increase the ego which is not very conducive to spiritual growth.
So, in bhakti marga we use the intelligence but the focus is not on illusion, focus on Krishna. So, by analysis, within the path of analysis, our sense of superiority increases because we think I know so much. But by analysis in the path of devotion, because our vision is fixed on Krishna, we understand that there is so much to know.
Krishna is so much greater than me. So, the greater the analysis, the greater the humility we get understanding our smallness, understanding how much more there is to know beyond what we know. And the greater is our appreciation of Krishna, understanding how great he is.
So, such intelligence used as a component of devotion is very healthy. It can increase our appreciation for Krishna. And the last point was, let intelligence be a minister not a master.
So, minister means we take intelligence as a very important input for pursuing the spiritual path. But we don’t let our spiritual journey become a hostage to our intelligence. So, if some things don’t make sense, then we approach it with humility saying that, okay, this is bigger than me.
I am small. Not that this doesn’t make sense. So, this whole path I will do.
So, if we think that by our intelligence we should be able to understand the supreme entirely, then that means we are committing the logical fallacy of considering our intelligence as greater than the supreme. So, the Krishna, it is used to go beyond the intelligence is trans-intelligent. To give up the intelligence is un-intelligent.
So, we don’t give up the intelligence, rather we go beyond the intelligence. And we see intelligence as an important paraphernalia in our worship of the Lord. We don’t make intelligence the object of worship.
We use intelligence to worship the object of worship. That is Krishna. And just like sometimes you may not be able to use a lamp in a windy place to worship.
Similarly, in particular situations rationality may not be the best tool for approaching the supreme. Then we put it aside and we focus on connecting with the Lord. Whether with our rationality or beyond our rationality.
In this way, we march ahead of the spiritual path using all our faculties. Our head and our heart. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Any questions or comments? Yes, Guru. Okay.
We can easily understand if somebody is more intellectual. But how can we understand if somebody is more intelligent? If that requires observing people little more closely. That means if we live with someone, if we see somebody day after day, month after month, year after year, and then we see their actions, their behaviour.
Is it consistent with what they speak? And how do they deal with impulsive emotions? How do they deal with provocative people? How do they deal with temptations? How do they deal with distresses? So, if somebody gets temptation comes, they succumb to temptation. If somebody gets angry, somebody just yells at others. So, intelligence we can see by looking at people’s actions for a long time.
That’s why it is said that to commit to the welfare of one person is more difficult than to commit to the welfare of the millions. They can say, I want to do good to millions of people. Then we are not committed to any one person.
We just appear in front of one person, another person, another person. Then we might just put on a mask before different people. If somebody with whom we are staying continuously or regularly, then sometimes the mask slips.
So, that’s why people’s actions, if you observe them over a period of time, and through their actions we can understand how much of their intellect has filtered down to the level of intelligence also. Yes? Okay. Okay.
Yes, correct. So, is keeping fit sign of the intelligence? Yes, definitely. It is just that say, if we are taking some medicine, normally if we are taking a treatment for someone, the medicine should improve our health.
But there are some treatments which initially may worsen the symptoms. Some homoeopathic treatments are like that. Some other treatments are like that also.
They may worsen the symptoms initially. At that time, we need faith. Okay, this is just a phase.
Eventually, things will become better. So, faith sees the process, not just the current results of the process. So, the current results of the process may or may not be pleasant.
But, if we focus on the process itself and continue, that will be indicative of faith. So, knowledge can help us to put faith. But, knowledge alone itself does not translate into faith.
Alone. Like, some doctors may know, okay, this medicine or this particular treatment, it’s painful. But, eventually, I feel better.
But, that does not necessarily mean, when the doctor has a disease, the doctor will necessarily take that treatment. Doctor may say, no, this is too painful. I don’t want to take it.
It is unlikely to happen. But, knowledge is more in terms of information. Whereas, faith is a choice in terms of actions.
So, when we have knowledge about how the process works, and then when we are aware, sometimes, some unexpected results might also come, then we choose to put faith and persevere in the process. Okay? Any other questions? Yes. Good point.
Yes. Organisation and intelligence are very important. You see, with intelligence and organisation, we will be able to take the message of bhakti to many many people.
Without that also, we might ourselves practise bhakti and we may get purified. But, we may, to reach Krishna, we have to have organisation and intelligence. Because, say, suppose, we are organising a programme.
Now, if the speaker and the organisers, both, all of them may be very devoted. But, if they are not systematic in organising the programme, they don’t publicise it properly. Well, maybe when the programme comes, only the speaker and the organisers will be there.
Nobody else will be there. And the programme goes on, the speaker and the organiser, both of them will be purified by the programme. But, others will not be benefited.
So, if you want others to be benefited, then they have to organise properly, make sure that people are publicised, people are invited. So, yes, it’s true. Thank you.
So, if our anarthas interfere with our intelligent practise of bhakti, our making wise choices in bhakti, what do we do? Yes, anarthas, say, it could be anger, it could be greed, it could be envy, it could be lust, whatever else, these all pop up within us at times. And sometimes when they pop up, they come so forcefully that our intelligence is knocked over. Say, it’s like, suppose a thief wants to rob a bank and a security guard at the door of the bank and a thief is big and burly and comes suddenly and knocks aside the security guard.
And then the thief comes and robs. And then the security guard is knocked off for some time and then comes back and picks up the gun and tries to chase the thief. Oh, the security guard has come, the thief runs away.
So, that is the situation for most of us on the spiritual part. Sometimes when the anarthas arise, they knock aside our intelligence. And for some time we do something wrong.
But imagine this security guard comes back to consciousness, the thief is robbing, he has a good chance I will also rob. And the thief and the security guard both rob the bank. And so, if the thief somehow, the thief has to normally sideline the security guard.
But if the thief can make the security guard an accomplice, then it is a far more dangerous situation. So, similarly for us, we all have moments of weakness, where our intelligence, like our security guard, is just sidelined. But the moments of weakness pass and then we are open to it.
I shouldn’t have done it. Either we try to correct ourselves or we do damage minimisation, we try to rectify the consequences. And gradually by that, we will become more and more alert.
And then, even if the thief comes in, the security guard will be able to protect. So, it will happen gradually. It requires more alertness, it requires more strength.
And as we keep practising bhakti more and more, the end study starts, we learn to observe ourselves to see what situations we succumb to temptation. Then, we will become more capable of resisting the other threat. But within that, we still keep practising bhakti.
Even in the temporary rise, see, we may fall down. We may fall down on the spiritual path. We may fall in Krishna consciousness.
But we need to fall in Krishna consciousness, not fall out of Krishna consciousness. Fall out of Krishna consciousness means that we give up the practise of bhakti. The security guard is fallen.
He gets up and starts guarding again. But if we just give up, this is not going to work. So, let me also give it up.
Then, that’s what, if that happens, people for whom their intelligence has become a tool of their arrogance. That means, they not only have envy, but they systematically plan how to hold down other persons. Systematic plan, say, blasphemy of someone, character assassination of someone.
When they do that, then that is not just weakness. That becomes wickedness. So, when somebody has wickedness, then it’s much more difficult to rectify.
Generally, for us in the devotee circle, most of us, what we have is wickedness. And this is a gradual process. So, we will, our intelligence will sometimes be overcome.
But again, we rise as soon as we realise it. And over a period of time, as our intelligence becomes stronger, as we become more alert, then those lapses will also become lesser. And then we’ll live a more pure life.
Thank you. Okay. Yes, sir? Okay.
Okay. So, if we tend to get questions about technicalities, such as, say, Putu Maharaj is said to have appeared from the churning of vena, body. So, how is this possible? This may not seem logical to us.
Yeah. So, should we try to understand this or should we just put aside the technicality? How can we do that if we still feel that we need to understand it? See, this depends on you. Different people have different natures.
And some people are more analytical and intellectual than others. So, there is no do this or don’t do this in this case. There is no right or wrong.
It’s more of what is right for me or what is best for me and what is not so good for me. If we look at broadly our traditions, now, the acharyas, if you look at this Prabhupada, Avishnachikha Thakur, all these acharyas, they have studied scripture for primarily the purpose of developing love for Krishna. And that’s what we have also come here for.
So, now Bhagavatam is primarily a guidebook for us for developing love for Krishna. And that needs to be our primary focus. At the same time, there are things which will just stand out for us.
How do I make sense of this? So, we can say that, actually I have a whole class on this topic, like reconciling science and scripture. But I’ll put it briefly. We consider scripture knowledge like a big circle.
In this circle, you can say there are three sectors. One sector is that which agrees with our scientific understanding. There is one sector which disagrees with the scientific understanding.
And there is a third sector which transcends scientific understanding. So, what do you mean by transcends? Say, for example, beyond the material world, this spiritual world, where there is a bluish black cowherd boy, who is the ultimate reality. Now, science can neither prove it nor disprove it.
Because one of the driving functional assumptions of science is that it studies this world. That this world, along with the forces interplay, that they are the object of study of this world. So, whether something exists beyond this world or not, that is out of scope for science, out of syllabus of science.
So, much of what is told in the Bhagavatam is actually that which transcends science. And if you look at our own lives, what we primarily cherish in the Bhagavatam is that which transcends science. We account primarily for that.
When Parikshit Maharaj is about to die in seven days and he wants to hear about Krishna, he is not primarily interested in cosmology or in physiology or even in, you could say, different kinds of procreation techniques or reproduction techniques or whatever. His primary interest is in remembering Krishna. So, both from the original context of the Bhagavatam as well as from the perspective of the commentators, the focus, and from our own lives, all three things, the focus is primarily on the third sector, which is the big sector actually.
That which transcends science. Now, having said that, that has to be a primary focus, but how do we deal with the other two? That, now that which agrees with science, that is wonderful, there is no problem with that. Now, sometimes some devotees highlight that a lot to get people to have faith.
You see, scripture describes the stages of the child’s embryo, the stages of the embryonic development in the mother’s womb, that is described in the third canto. Well, that’s true, it’s described and it’s remarkably accurate, but if you look at the context, the Bhagavatam is not describing embryonic development. It is actually describing the prayers that the embryo offers to the Lord.
And in that course, it’s like a passing information that is given. So, the thrust is not that. So, some if we use that information which agrees with modern science, can help somebody to gain faith in the Bhagavatam, that is good.
But, during our study and during our outreach, we have to repeatedly stress that this is not the essence of the Bhagavatam. The essence is this big sector. The big sector is that which transcends modern science.
If we, sometimes some devotees try to prove that the Bhagavatam’s knowledge is superior to scientific knowledge. The Bhagavatam’s material knowledge is superior to scientific knowledge. Now, in some aspects, it may be.
But, if we position scripture as a competitor to science, by that we devalue scripture. Scripture is giving us knowledge of another category. The category of what purpose does it hold? What is the ultimate purpose of life? So, science is with all its strength, science is amoral.
Science is not immoral. Science is not moral. Science does not talk about morality.
Now, science can tell you that if you put arsenic in your grandmother’s breakfast, you can get your netherlands faster. Now, but whether to put that or not, that your chemistry textbook will not tell. Now, most scientists won’t do it.
But, it’s not science telling them. It’s their moral sense telling them. They should not do this.
So, science is neither moral nor immoral. It is amoral. It just describes how the interaction of physical objects occurs and what are the results of that interaction.
But, ethically, whether the particular action should be done or not, that is something which beyond us we study that with our immoral sense. So, the primary domain of scientific knowledge is the interaction of matter. Whereas, the primary focus of scripture is the development of consciousness.
And because of this difference, if we position scripture as a competitor to science, then we are devaluing scripture. Scripture is giving us some other knowledge, primalism. And, specifically, with respect to specific issues which we may not be able to understand.
So, we need to consider, we need to consult those devotees who are also may be more rational minded, more aware of science and then from them we can get answers. Some devotees might just simply say, oh, that is achintya, that is inconceivable. Now, well, inconceivable should not become like a mega umbrella to put together everything we don’t understand.
Inconceivable, yes, Krishna is inconceivable and there are definite things about Krishna Bhakti and Krishna Tattva that are inconceivable. But, it shouldn’t become, inconceivable is a attribute of Krishna. It is not a tool for explaining away things that we don’t understand.
The difference between the two. So, specifically with respect to this question, we see that, now normally we think that the primary means of reproduction is sexual reproduction. The male and the female come together and they reproduce.
And then, of course, there are some organisms which have a sexual reproduction. That they just reproduce on their own, without mating. So, actually, one of the big mysteries in the evolutionary history of science is, you know, was sex necessary? Because, actually, sex, the need for sex for procreation puts the living being to a lot of vulnerability.
You have to be vulnerable to get a mate. You have to be vulnerable in the time when you are obsessed with mating. If at that time, some predator attacks or whatever.
So, actually, sex causes a lot of headache to evolutionists in some ways. So, if you see from the point of view of expediency and survival, a sexual reproduction is much more efficient than sexual reproduction. Now, you could say that the mixing of genes happen and that’s why that leads to greater vitality.
But, whether that is really necessary, that could be done through sexual reproduction also. Because some amount of gene crossover can happen in that also. That’s a question.
I’ll not get into that. But the important thing is that reproduction doesn’t have to be limited to the means that we know right now. And now, for example, say 100 years ago, 200 years ago, if now we have intravenous fertilisation, IVF, people didn’t know about that.
So, if we with our technology can develop means of reproduction which are different from what are the natural. So, the Bhagavatam is not primarily a scientific text. So, when it is said that by churning the body of Pruthu, of Vena Pruthu was Pruthu appeared.
Now, what exactly that means? What is that churning? How was that churning done? None of that is described. Now, if we think of that churning, you know, somebody was churning a rod and churned his body. Well, I don’t think it’s as simple as that.
So, see, generally technical procedures when they are described in non-technical texts, say, okay, if somebody had a surgeon, you know, so somebody might say that, you know, actually I had an open-heart surgeon. Okay. But if somebody doesn’t know what open-heart surgery is, he says, the doctor cut my heart.
What? Doctor cut your heart? And you are still alive? How is that possible? So, what happens is that in non-technical context, technical procedures may be described in layman’s language and that might seem outrageous. How is this possible? But in technical context, it might be much more sophisticated. So, we don’t know exactly what that churning means.
I doubt it’s not just literal simple procedure. If that were the case, then why does the Bhagavatam describe that everybody who has died, they churn their body and they get offspring from there? It’s not described like that over there. So, basically, if our study of the universe through science has taught us anything, it has taught us humility.
That the universe is far more complicated than what we can perceive. And there are many things that may happen in the universe that our current conception of science can’t defend itself. There’s a famous, one of the pioneers of science, he said that reality should not be reduced so that it fits into our knowledge systems.
Rather, our knowledge system should be expanded so that it accommodates reality. Science is a very powerful tool to reality. But it’s one tool.
And there can be much more to reality that our current science doesn’t perceive. So, we don’t have to go on a campaign to say that churning is inconceivable. But we don’t have to say that this is all mythological or metaphorical or it is just fantastic.
No. There could be some mechanism that we don’t know about. And if you want to, if such things trouble us, then we need to connect with those devotees who can give us a satisfactory understanding.
Not every devotee will be able to give us a satisfactory understanding. And in general devotee circles, these questions may not be appreciated also. So, we have to find like-minded associations.
So, that association will appreciate these kind of questions and will understand the need for getting answers. And they will provide us answers. At least we will see that, okay, many other people also have these questions.
And that also will give us at least we are understood. Even if we don’t understand, we are understood. And that also gives us some solace.
So, we don’t want to focus on that, on these kind of technicalities. But if they just stand out to us while we are reading scripture, then we need to have appropriate association where we can get a reasonable exchange. So, thank you very much.
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