How our strength and our faith are integrated in bhakti

[Youth meeting at Seattle, USA]

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topic of faith and strength. How do they go together in our life? This 17 chapter, what do I mean by faith and strength? Strength refers to our own ability to think.
And we all need that. And faith refers to whatever it is beyond us that also shapes our life. So our life is a constant dynamic interaction between our strength and our faith.
Now these two are not entirely watertight categories. At one level, we can say I have faith in my strength. Or we can say my faith is my strength also.
So it’s not watertight, but broadly we’re talking about what is in our, something that is in our power, which we’re calling as our strength. And something which is not in our power, but which also matters to us, which I’m calling as our faith. So the 17 chapter of the Bhagavad Gita is one of the most neglected and often it’s one of the most profound chapters.
We often talk about 9 chapters, 12 chapters, they’re very sweet devotional chapters. 17 chapter A is it’s talking about Shraddha Trayavibhaga Yoga. That is the three divisions of faith.
So what that means is, I don’t think we need this. It doesn’t take too much power. We can always correct it again, I think.
So when we talk about faith, broadly speaking, we use the word faith in mostly a religious context. And nowadays the idea is that you have your faith, and I have my faith. And people use the word, especially in the western world, they use the word believer and non-believer.
So when we talk about faith, what are we actually talking about? So we can talk about broadly four categories. If you make it a diagram, maybe I could draw it, but you can envision it also. Say you have no faith, no strength.
We have faith, but no strength. We have strength, but no faith. And we have faith and strength.
Is it clear or should I draw this? It’s clear now. So if you see, when people, for example, sink into depression, that is the state when you have no faith and no strength. So that is we, maybe so many bad things have happened to us in our life that we start thinking that the world is a terrible place and we have no faith in the goodness of the world.
And similarly, our own efforts to do things have also not worked. They have also not only not worked, sometimes they have backfired. When we do something good and no good comes out of it, that’s discouraging.
But when we do something good and bad comes out of it, that’s not just discouraging, that’s devastating. So when something like that happens, then people feel, I have no strength and I have no faith also. That is a state of abject misery.
To be in that kind of situation is we need to get out of it as quickly as possible. If we are in that situation, what happens in today’s world is actually nobody is without strength. That means everybody has technology.
With technology, we have the strength to summon all kinds of information, imagery, ideas from various places. I was in Australia when there was this shooting that happened in a mosque in Christchurch. In America, some of the school shootings have become common.
They’re shocking, but still they’re common. In New Zealand, nothing like that has happened for a long time. It shocked the whole psyche of the country.
And not just New Zealand, but also Australia because it was Australians who had gone there and shot. So now, when people do something like this, actually speaking, when we are in the situation of no strength and no faith, we just can’t stay in that situation for long. And then we have to somehow assert our strength.
Now that asserting of our strength can come if it goes inward, it becomes suicide. If it goes outward, it becomes homicide. If it becomes further outward, it becomes genocide.
So we cannot stay in a state of complete powerlessness. It’s just not possible for us. And people have to be somewhere in a very, very dark place to assert their strength in such a disastrous way, in such a horrendous way.
So we may find a healthy way to come out of that, or we find an unhealthy way to come out of it. But we can’t stay in a state when we feel we have no strength, no power. Suicide is also an act of violence.
It’s an act of strength. Life, you are making my life, you are making me so miserable, I have the power to stop you from making me miserable. And that is, I end my life.
Now of course, it doesn’t end the misery. Because we are souls, and the soul, based on its karma, has to go to the next life. But the point is that at that situation, when we have no faith and no strength, we just can’t stay there.
And we have to escape from it some way or other. You’re from no strength, no faith. So we can go to it, strength but no faith.
So, even strength but no faith means, like somebody has homicidal, like world is terrible. If I am so miserable, who is the cause of my misery? I will bring them to me. Or if I am miserable, I will make sure that others are also miserable.
So there are of course, various ways in which we can go from that no faith, no strength to no faith but strength. And in many ways, science and technology has expanded those ways. Has expanded those ways means that now through technology we can cause destruction.
But apart from destruction, we can also have escapism. Escapism can be through internet surfing, through drugs, through alcoholism, through entertainment, through spectator sports. The kind of mania that is associated with sports today, it is incredible.
Entertainment has always been a part of human society but it’s mania today. People spend millions and millions. I was in Australia and at that time the Cricket World Cup was going on.
So one of my friends, he had gone to England. He had been there for several days. So there was an India Pakistan match.
And at that time, there was some fear that rain may wipe out the match. So he had bought the India Pakistan match ticket for 1500 pounds. One ticket.
1500 pounds is almost like 2 lakh rupees. You know, one ticket. So he called the audience and said, I don’t believe in God but if there is a God, can you pray to him that there be no rains? Not even that India wins, at least the match goes on.
Because the ICC rules are that if even one ball is bowled, then they don’t refund anything. If no balls are bowled, then they refund the money. But what had happened, he had bought the ticket in black.
So he would not get any refund. Or no meaningful refund. So anyway, what happens is that this obsession, how much money people are spending for one match, it’s because they want to escape from life.
And we all need some sense of horror. So, losing ourselves in entertainment, identifying with our heroes and thinking that in the greatness of our heroes lies our greatness. That is also one way of escape.
In a movie, suppose a hero and heroine are hugging and kissing, people start whistling. Why is that? Because they are thinking, if only I was there, it would be so nice. They are identifying.
It’s called vicarious pleasures. So basically, that’s how we try to gain some power. So, this is the second quadrant.
I’ll come back to this quadrant later. What was the third quadrant? Faith, but no strength. Faith, but no strength.
If we talk about isn’t faith also strength? Can there be somebody who has faith but no strength? Yes, it’s possible. In fact, there are many people who are weak-minded. They use religion as a crutch.
As it says, God helps those who help themselves. But if somebody is not ready to help themselves, and they think God will take care of all things. That is actually escapism through religion.
So, of course, some people are stronger, some people are weaker. Now, most of those who have come to America, it’s of course your hard work, but it’s not just your hard work. Every one of you, if you already have a materialistic worldview, every one of you won a big genetic lottery at birth.
And to a large extent at birth itself, our IQ is determined. And, at least in our education system, especially in the field of software, the IQ that you have, that is critical in shaping our future life strategy. IQ alone is not decisive, but IQ is significant.
So, we could say somebody has a very poor IQ. They just can’t do even basic things. Just can’t.
Processing becomes too much for them. Then we can say they have no strength. It’s one intellectual strength, we can say.
But somebody has no strength. So, if somebody now, even in that situation, they have to find out what strengths they have and work on them. But if somebody starts thinking of faith as a substitute for one’s strength, it is not a substitute, it is a complement.
It is not a replacement, but a complement. My strength may be 1% and my faith may be 90% or my faith may be 50%, my strength may be 50% and my faith may be 50%. Now, even functioning in the world, while we are doing our part, we have to act as if everything depends on us.
Because when Arjuna was shooting the arrows at the opponent, he was not thinking you know, Krishna will make sure the arrow doesn’t hit the target. He was aiming carefully, using his full strength to make sure that he hit the target. Now, your question? So, when we talk about no strength, here we are talking about either they have no abilities, intellectual abilities, physical abilities, or if the strength is also in terms of willpower.
If somebody doesn’t use whatever willpower they have, it may be little or more, and they think God will take care of everything. Then that is also a kind of escapism. Just as there can be escapism into some kind of illusory strength like escapist entertainment, so religion can also become an escapist.
And when Karl Marx said that religion is the opium of the masses, he was right. But he was not completely right. He was right with respect to some people.
Marx’s idea was that that the upper class people, just like in India we had the caste system, in the West also they had similar almost four styles. There was the clergy, then there was the royalty, then there were the bourgeois, then there were the landlords, and then there were the serfs. Like the Brahmins.
So he felt that the lowest classes, now these classes were not so much, they were financial classes largely, but they were also by heritage. Somebody who was born in royalty was automatically considered to be royalty. Somebody who was born as a peasant or a serf, they were already considered like that only.
So he felt that, really thought that religion is a tool by which the upper classes maintain their privilege and power, and the lower classes, they paralyse them into not striving to improve their lives by promising them that your next life will be better. So now the idea is that you just do what you are supposed to do. So you live in poverty and you die in poverty.
You work hard and still you live in poverty and you die in poverty. So in the mediaeval world view, there was practically no what we would call today as upward mobility. One’s birth would more or less determine one’s trajectory throughout life.
And did people not have strength? Not everyone, but some people did become passive. And there are always cynical people, even who can use religion as a tool. Now not that all religions do that, but it has been done.
So religion can be used as a tool by the powerful to keep the low people low. So he said that people have to give up this hope of some other world where they will be happy. And they have to fight to make themselves happy in this world.
So when somebody because of their religion becomes completely passive. If you look at our ethics, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, the heroes are not passive. They are resourceful, they are talented, they are charismatic and they have faith, but not just faith, they also have strength.
So somebody takes faith in God as a replacement for one’s own efforts, replacement for discovering one’s own strengths and developing those strengths, then that is unhealthy. Then the fourth category will be what will it be? Faith and strength. So that is the best situation to be in.
If you see in 11th, 13th Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita So he says at one level he is acknowledging Arjuna’s ability and he says you are expert Arjuna. So Arjuna is so expert that he is ambidextrous. He can fight equally well with both hands.
So he is expert Arjuna and he is saying your perfection is that you become an instrument. At one level we can say that Krishna can use anyone as an instrument. That’s true.
Krishna can make even an unworthy instrument worthy. But at the same time Krishna is also here to do some serious work. Establishing Dharma in the world is not an easy task.
But for doing that Krishna needs competent spirits and a devotee’s mood is at one level there is dependence on Krishna. That’s faith. But at another level there is also diligence for Krishna.
We want to do our work the best way that we can. And so we need to be in this category of…we have to find out our spirits. And we serve Krishna according to our spirits.
And because in these strengths we don’t have to too much differentiate between what is material and spiritual. Ultimately everything comes from Krishna. If somebody has some material abilities they can also be used to maybe directly serve Krishna if they are usable or to indirectly serve Krishna.
To indirectly serve Krishna means that say if we have some technical skills, software skills, we use that to grow in life so that we have a respectable position. And with that respectable position we can attract many more people to Krishna. So in this fourth category it is that our devotion to Krishna is meant to be life affirming not life denying.
Life affirming means that when we serve Krishna actually we live life fully. We use all our material abilities, material and spiritual in a constructive way. Life denying means focus on, oh I am not meant to do this, I am not meant to do that, I am not meant to do that.
Bhakti is not so much about what we are meant not to do. It is about what we are meant to do. We focus primarily on the yes, not on the no.
Yes there are certain things which we are meant to say no to. But the essence of bhakti is what we say yes to. And a devotee usually becomes so busy in saying yes to Krishna that a devotee doesn’t even notice that I am saying no to other things.
That’s the state of absorption in Krishna. Now as I said if you consider the example of Arjuna, I will take two examples and I will conclude and then we can have some questions. So if you consider Arjuna, he at one, the epics can be understood at different levels.
At one level he is an eternal associate of the lord and he has also come as a part of the lord’s leela. But in the manifest pastimes in the Mahabharata, it is not depicted like that. It is actually in the Draupadi Swayambha that Arjuna and Krishna meet for the first time.
Where Krishna comes and introduces himself. I am Krishna. And the Pandavas heard about him a lot.
They are delighted to meet him. So at that time, Arjuna did not know that he was going to be an he was going to fight a dharma yudha for Krishna. He was a Kshatriya and he wanted to be the best Kshatriya that he could be.
And he saw that he was good in archery and he was busy changing. It’s interesting that we often tell this incident when Arjuna saw when all of them were asked to shoot at a target and Lord asked Arjuna, look at that. What do you see? Arjuna said, I see the branch.
Lord said, I see the tree. Arjuna said, I see the bird. Arjuna came.
Do you know what did Arjuna say? I see only the eye of the bird. It’s interesting. He didn’t say, I see Krishna over there.
Now, Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita in 6.13 योमां पश्चति सर्वत्र सर्वं जमय पश्चति That is one who sees me everywhere and sees everything in me. तस्याहुन्न प्रणश्यामित चमेल प्रणश्यति That they are never lost to me and I am never lost to them. That is true.
When a devotee has to function in the world then they have to function effectively in the world and they have to do the best for Krishna. So if some work needs to be done we need to see how that work needs to be done. We can’t just have a transcendental vision that makes us dysfunctional in the world.
And when the devotees arrange a big Raksha Yatra in London, the first Raksha Yatra the devotees had done something in San Francisco and the London devotees thought we will do bigger. So they made a bigger cart but they kept the wheels the same size. And then the driver of the Yatra just the whole Raksha Yatra crumbled.
The wheel itself crumbled. It was a PR disaster. And the devotees were so respondent.
They wrote to Prabhupada. Prabhupada said the Raksha Yatra collapsed because of our poor devotion. So Prabhupada said it collapsed because of his poor engineering.
So Arjuna was whole hearted in developing his strength. The archery of his strength, he was diligent. When he had to shoot the target, he saw only the target.
And that’s how he developed his engineering. And later on the opportunity came. Dharma Yudha and he used his ability.
Similarly, Sri Prabhupada for most of his life he was trying to run a business. And although at one level the business was not very successful Prabhupada travelled a lot met a lot of people interacted with them. And Prabhupada learned from all that experience.
When Prabhupada went to the west Prabhupada was pure but he was not naive. He knew how the world worked. If you see when Prabhupada came with his disciples to India at that time at one level his disciples had been extremely materialistic.
They had done all kinds of things. And Prabhupada throughout lived a pure life. But when Mr. N tried to cheat the devotees It was not that Prabhupada was so transcendental that Prabhupada also got cheated.
Actually, Prabhupada was very resourceful. And it required a lot of material planning. Prabhupada didn’t say when Mr. N was trying to steal the land he took the money and he was sending hooligans to try to drive the devotees away from there.
Prabhupada did not say let’s chant Hare Krishna and Krishna will take care of everything. Prabhupada strategised. Prabhupada had the devotees go and meet influential people and Prabhupada strategised means Prabhupada when required in the western world Prabhupada said we are not news.
We are transcendental. But there he went and he had his disciples meet the various politicians and very influential people and he said this is the first Hindu temple in India that is built primarily by Americans. And this is being destroyed.
What will happen in the name of India all over the world? So he used both Hinduism and Nationalism. And people just erupted. They thought that the opponents understand and thought that they are just dealing with a bunch of naive foreigners.
But they didn’t know how how strategic Prabhupada could be. And like in just one day the devotees went and met some influential people they called some journalists and the next day in all the newspapers Hindu temple is being destroyed. And the whole mood changed just within just a few hours.
And Mr. M was so traumatised that he got a heart attack. And then his wife tried to fight back. But she also when she came and asked Prabhupada to leave.
And Prabhupada was not willing to leave. He said you are just like my daughter. I will take care of her.
So Prabhupada fought when he was required. We may have to fight against someone but we don’t have to be against someone. We have to fight because that’s what is required for ourselves.
But Prabhupada was not inimical. He was not vengeful. So Prabhupada had his strengths and he used those strengths.
He had some strengths and he leveraged. He got other strengths. The faith in Krishna is not a substitute for our own strength.
Both faith and strength go together in our service. And for all of us at one level when we practise bhakti we study the philosophy, we chant the holy names, we see devotees across the world and we often from the past times in scripture as well as the lives of devotees we often see how Krishna works in extraordinary ways to arrange things wonderfully for the devotees. So we strengthen our faith in Krishna so that for the things that are beyond our control we have faith that Krishna will take care.
Even if they are difficult Krishna will bring something good out of it. But while doing that, while developing our faith we also need to develop our strength. So whatever it is we are doing how to build this service of Krishna? How can I say Krishna more in future? We need to have as I said bhakti is life upward movement.
Within the service of Krishna each of us Prabhupada wanted every one of his followers to become spiritual masters. He wanted everyone to share Krishna’s message. So whatever is the strength that we have we can use it to try to become instruments in the machine of compassion.
And when we are situated in that quadratic strength and faith then we will find that bhakti is to come and make us more joyful. It is something which is where we are engaged in something meaningful we are able to make some contribution to the world so we get sublime not just through our internal connection with Krishna but also through our external contribution for Krishna. And that is the example that Bhagavad Gita calls Arjuna to demonstrate when it tells Arjuna fight and that is the example which Prabhupada also demonstrates.
So I will summarise. So I spoke today on this theme of how strength and faith go together in bhakti. So I talked about the 17th chapter of the Gita where Krishna says that we all, everybody in the three modes, everybody has their faith and their life is shaped according to their faith.
So I talked about how these two categories, strength and faith are not necessarily autotype but strength we refer to our capacities to change the things that are in our country. And faith refers to our understanding that that which is not in our control will ultimately work out for good. So we talked about the four categories.
What is the first? No faith, no strength. Depression and it’s unbearable. You have to assert strength somehow.
It may be destructive like suicide, homicide, genocide or it can be escapist. The technology through drugs, through sports, spectator sports. We go towards some place of strength but no faith.
But whatever we do in this category, it’s ultimately unfulfilled. Because no matter how much strength we develop, eventually our strength will be run out. And then if we have no faith, we’ll just be crushed by life.
Then third category is faith but no strength. That is when people treat religion as an escapism. Where religion becomes the opium of the masses.
That people see faith as a replacement for their strength rather than a compliment. So if we don’t do our part and think let God take care of everything, that kind of passivity is irresponsible. That is not spirituality.
And such people often are, they give a bad name to religion, they are exploited by others who use the name of religion inside their religious fashions. And then atheists and sceptics use this as an example of how religion is disrupted, like Karl Marx did. But the idea is that if we look at our tradition, the most illustrious models are the fourth category of strength and faith.
So we have the certain abilities and bhakti is meant to be life of a reader. That we use our abilities to live fully in a mode of service to Krishna. I took two examples, one of Arjuna, how he was not just seeing Krishna everyday.
Yes, he was devoted to Krishna but when he had to shoot archery, he saw his target and focused on that target. So he developed his strength. Prabhupada, even when he was directly serving Krishna by building a temple for Krishna, he leveraged his strength when there was a threat that the temple would be defrauded and stolen away.
So when the Juhu temple was rebought, Prabhupada fought for Krishna. And all of us, when we do, we develop our faith by engaging in the limbs of bhakti, by hearing, reading, chanting. We also observe ourselves and develop our strength.
And when we have this combination of strength and faith, then our bhakti will be joyfully performed. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Any questions or comments? Yes, please. I have a question. How do you develop your strength? I think the question is how do you develop your strength? What happens at the beginning of the course is that I don’t see the mind as a tool to draw the geometry.
There will be times where I go in circles and go all out to match the progress. And then when we are in the material world, we do not want to do anything. And then there is the other thing where we get that and then we go in circles and that’s it.
How do we know the line between when we get ourselves completely into spiritual life or when we get ourselves completely into our material life? We need to see all aspects of our life as meant for Krishna. It’s not just what I do in the temple that is for Krishna. And what I do in my job that is just my job.
In the 18th chapter of the Labyrinth 46-48 he says this famous verse Some people translate it as work is worship. What Krishna is actually saying is work as worship. Work in a mood of worship.
And how can we work in a mood of worship? This is that I that all of existence has come from God is not just the source of everything. God is the pervader of everything. So whatever we are building in the world actually the energies which we are working are also energies of God.
The talents we are using are also talents given to us by God. So there are some connections with Krishna which are more direct. Some which are more indirect.
But we need to see that all of these are connecting us to Krishna. When we have this attitude that these are all various ways in which I connect to Krishna then we will be able to move forward constructively. So there are times when the direct connection opportunities are a lot.
And we need to use the whole attitude. So for example festivals are there or some senior devotees have come and they are very inspired by us. We need to use the whole attitude.
These two attitudes are required. But that doesn’t mean that that will become the norm. That is not the norm.
The norm is that we have to have a balance. But the nature of balance is that it’s not static. It’s not one formula that we will implement.
But it is rather if you keep your purpose in mind. That okay, I want to do this also and I want to do this also. Sometimes I’ll do this more, sometimes I’ll do that more.
So it is purpose that provides perspective. So if our purpose is to think that I only want to go spiritual and not material. But if you understand, both of these are like lanes in our life.
And we need to go on both lanes. Then you could have two tracks for us. We are souls but we are presently in physical bodies.
So although ultimately we are spiritual beings right now we have body and soul together. So you could say our material life and spiritual life are like two tracks of a train. If we go only on spiritual life then we are getting on one track.
Even those who are renounced they also have to take care of their health, they have to take care of their material needs. It may be lesser, much lesser. But everybody has to take care of that.
So the tendency is that if some people go on one track of material life alone, then also that’s not a very sustainable track. That also leads to lack of fulfilment, that also leads to frustration. If there is no ultimate meaning in life, then our mind can just eat us up.
So we need both aspects of our life and if we have that purpose clear then both are meant to connect with Krishna. Now it’s not automatically that the two will be tracks of the two will be like two tracks of a train. If our material life is filled with gross sensuality and mood of ignorance kind of activities then the two tracks are already diverged.
We have to make sure that the two tracks go together. It’s not automatically in both ways. Does that answer your question? Question inaudible Okay, so Question inaudible So Do we have if our material life and professional life is also meant for Krishna then do we really have two tracks? Why say that there is material life and spiritual life? Okay, no.
It can be a contradiction. It may even be. There is there is a transcendental way of looking at things and there is a functional way of looking at things.
So suppose somebody says that my whole family is devotees so I don’t need to do charity for Krishna. I am doing charity to my family. Well, that is not really charity.
It’s your family. Of course, we have to take care of family but all for that matter I have talked with many devotees even very senior devotees both husband and wife are like 20-30-40 years practising bhakti and their children are also very dedicated devotees but still they tell me that when we associate with each other we don’t see each other as devotees it’s a functional relationship so it is devotee association but it is not just devotee association so we also need association of other devotees with whom we are leading primarily as devotees not primarily as family members because when you are family members the functional roles come into the picture it’s best if our family members are also devotees but somebody says my family is devotees so why do I need to go to a temple No, that will not work we need devotee association so at a transcendental level we can say that actually our whole life is spiritual but at a functional level it’s a matter of our consciousness and we have to see what activities spiritualise our consciousness more and what activities de-spiritualise our consciousness or maybe they don’t spiritualise our consciousness that much and that discernment is required even while doing devotional activities say for example if while doing Buddhist tradition if somebody goes into some other thing, the devotees at one time they went to in the early days they would go to a places where people were completely drunk they went to a place where people were totally like they were uncoated and then they were going to such places and Taupas also went to they took him there and then Taupas said we have to think whether people are going to become devotees to go to those places atleast there is a possibility of becoming devotees in the famous Avalon ballroom where Prabhupada did the mantra rock a dance Prabhupada said this is no place for a Brahmachari to go there one of his disciples was practising there, he said this is no place for Brahmachari so we have to also there are certain places even while performing Bhakti which can affect our consciousness so we could say at a transcendental level everything is spiritual but at a functional level how much what spiritualises our consciousness we need to differentiate definitely if you go to a temple it can spiritualise our consciousness much more than if we go to our job so we need to have that differentiation and that functional sense we are talking about material life and spiritual life if you go to a temple try to do meditation possibly you will find a lot of meditation ok yeah is it possible that in a mutated aspect in an obsessed aspect people become manic Prabhupada told us that if you try to live like the six Goswamis you will die you just can’t do that I have many Prabhupada disciples who try to stretch their body for a few hours and now many of them say you need to take care of your health they say that and they don’t regret that but they say that we can’t serve Krishna as it is now as we could have see ultimately we can’t cheat the body the body can cheat us but we can’t cheat the body the body can cheat us means that the body can make us sleep more than we need to do the body can make us eat more than we need to do the body can make us indulge more than we need to do by making us believe actually you need to do this but we can’t cheat the body that means if we don’t give the body what it needs if we don’t give enough sleep. So what happens? If we don’t sleep at the right time, then we sleep at the wrong time.
We sleep during class, we sleep during japa, we sleep at so many other times. So what happens is we can’t keep the world. So we have to take care of the world.
And it is important that we recognise that, let’s say there is anukaran and there is anusharan. There is imitating and following. So we are not going to imitate the great souls, we are going to follow in their footsteps.
Following their footsteps means that we see what is our capacity and we do the best according to our capacity. We can certainly take inspiration from others. There is always the possibility that we can do more, we can dedicate ourselves more.
But after a few years, we start realising that every one of us is so different. That comparison just doesn’t make much functional sense. So we have to act according to our level.
Now of course we try to improve our level. So where I was, how much scriptural knowledge I had 6 months ago, now I should have more. How much scriptural realisation I had 6 months ago, I should have more.
How much say devotional abilities or experiences or devotional skills I have, should increase that. But we need to focus on where we are and taking steps forward with the inspiration of others. Not that we think that we can take the same size steps that they are taking.
Did I answer your question? Yes. I have a question. So I have doubt that in today’s time, in the next several times, such things get challenged.
So how do we respond to that in terms of do we stand up and fight against the structure or do we just ignore and adopt it? Can you give an example of what you mean by saying it gets challenged? I think sometimes doubts might come into my mind in terms of if what I am doing is correct or if it is that the thing I am trying to follow is some, as a certain factor somebody else might question that you are following this, how right or how wrong can it be. So when those kind of factors come in, how do we respond? Do we just ignore them or do we just try to defend what we are following? Yeah. So if our faith is attached either internally or externally, what should we do? Well, for both of them it is the same.
If there are internal doubts that are coming, definitely we need to deal with them. We need to go to some devotee to know that subject. We also have to learn which devotee can address what kind of doubts.
If we are analytical, then we need the assistance of someone who is analytical. If we are more culturally orientated, then we need the assistance of someone who is culturally orientated. So basically we need spiritual guides, we need spiritual mentors who understand our mind and who help us to understand our mind.
Understand our mind means, sometimes we ask some question in a way, why do you think so much? It is not that I am thinking too much, that is the way my mind thinks. That is one way to understand my mind. And then, of course our mind does not always think right, it may be reason, it may analyse, sometimes it may analyse in the wrong way.
This is how your mind is thinking, but this is where it is being wrong. They help us understand how our mind works. So that is why we refer to something as Sajati Ashra, Bhagavad Bhaktasam.
A like-minded association. We need some devotees like that who can, who won’t judge us for our doubts, but who will help us to limit our doubts. If internally doubts are coming, then we need that kind of association.
And if we didn’t do that, that association is immediately available. And sometimes some doubts have to be kept in suspension, with old judgement. It is fair to say, what happens is, sometimes we doubt our beliefs, and we believe our doubts.
It is okay, it is a doubt. Maybe I can doubt my doubt also. Maybe the doubt is not the complete picture.
There are some questions raised about it. Okay, I can hold on to some doubt. It is not that I have to do this.
It is because the doubt has come, that means the whole foundation of my bhakti, I will have to do my own practise of bhakti or something like that. So that is one thing. But we need like-minded, if internal doubts are coming, we need like-minded association.
And also there are different, what is called as head doubts and heart doubts. Head doubts are more intellectual. That, okay, the Mahabharata describes this mountain is so big, how can it be so big? This is a physical dimension.
Prabhupada was very, Prabhupada did not, he did not give those figures, but he did not consider that very important. In the first canto, Prabhupada says at one place that Krishna has left Hastinapur and come to Dwaraka. And then the path by which Krishna has come is described in the Bhagavatam.
Whether this city, this province, this city, again this city. And Prabhupada says some historians, some, they may try to retrench the path by which Krishna came. But the geology, the geography of the earth keeps changing.
And tracing Krishna’s path is quite difficult. As far as we are concerned, we are simply satisfied that Krishna has come to Dwaraka and we want to perform pastimes with the deities. See the Bhagavatam is not meant to be a book on geography.
It has geographical knowledge. It is not meant to be a book on geography. So this kind of details, they are not that important.
Somebody with special interest can study them. But that kind of head doubts, this is, we look at what is the purpose of the Bhagavatam itself. Is it to do Shudra Yoga, Sangha Yoga, so on.
No. So we study scripture to pursue the purpose that was pursued by the origin of Shudra Yoga. The head doubts are simply about facts and figures.
They are important, but they are not the primary purpose of the study of scripture. We study scripture to remember Krishna and to increase our devotion to Krishna. So the heart doubts definitely have to be addressed.
Head doubts can be definitely questioned. And if others ask questions, then we have to see what kind of people they are. If they have genuine questions, then we try to answer them or we try to get the answers.
But some people are just, they are out to criticise. And that is happening. Whatever reasons we give, I saw a cartoon once.
Whatever you say, I will tell you. So, if some people are like that, then let’s take a decision. We shouldn’t, one of the keys in having healthy relationships is don’t overvalue people who are devaluing you.
So, if somebody keeps devaluing our faith, then don’t overvalue their ideas. You can appreciate them. And you should value those who value you.
Thank you, Krishna. She surrendered. She had complete faith.
And then she was applying her full strength. That’s when Krishna realised that he could not even fall into space and no strength for him. So Krishna didn’t help her, because he was completely blind.
Krishna helped her. When she actually gave up, she completely surrendered to Krishna’s full strength. It is that Krishna didn’t help Draupadi till she gave up her own efforts and surrendered wholly.
There are different modes of surrender. Somehow, I heard this example given by devotees that, and I have never heard seen a shastric praman for this. See, Krishna was there from the beginning.
So, as long as Krishna was there, she was holding, Krishna didn’t help. Only when she let go and called, then Krishna helped. So, that is a, you could use it for conveying a particular point that we have to wholeheartedly depend on Krishna.
But, it’s situational also. Is it that Draupadi was not surrendered to Krishna before that? Was she surrendered only at that time? No. If you see, at that time, even when she had been called in a single cloth through the assembly, she was not just crying in this cloth.
She was crying, but she was still reminding everyone of Dharma. She was telling that, use this Dharma to bring about various things. If Krishna had gambled himself, then how could he have gambled? Was he my master? Why would he gamble if he was not his own master? So, the whole assembly was going on the path of Adharma and she was trying to stop that.
She was remembering the principles of Dharma even then. And, Nishma actually applauded her. Nishma said, even amidst such adversity that you are remembering Dharma and reminding others of Dharma is laudable.
So, it’s not that only then she surrendered and before that Krishna is not surrendering. It is that we all have to do the best that we can. We all have a certain area of control and certain things which are out of our control.
Now, this Kshetra of ours, that is not static. It keeps changing. Sometimes the area over which you have control is a lot.
Sometimes the area over which you have control is very little. If whatever area we have control over, we use that control for Krishna. And if that is a lot, we need to omit it.
If that is very little, that’s what we need. And sometimes we have no control. On the 14th day when he was going to bring down Jayadratha, he fought with the fullest capacity.
He could see the standard of Jayadratha’s chariot. But then suddenly, a Kshatriya warrior just charged upon him. And he just couldn’t even see anything, couldn’t even move forward.
The sun was rapidly setting over the horizon. He was so close, yet so far away. He tried his best and couldn’t even move.
That’s when Krishna miraculously interrupted him. So, we do our best, and then we can’t do it. When we do our best, then Krishna does the rest.
In this case, Draupadi, she didn’t call out to Krishna wholeheartedly. That was also her endeavour, that was also her strength. With all her strength, she called out to Krishna.
And Anandaji appeared to him and said, Call out loudly to Krishna. That also requires strength. So, is it that when we give up our effort that Krishna takes over? There are times that happens.
But that is not the only way to do it. There is, Prabhupada also talks about this, that when he was in Tomsin Square Park, he had tried so much and nothing was moving forward. He was thinking, maybe I just have to go back to India.
And he said, let’s start it. He closed his eyes. He was completely comfortable.
He was completely comfortable. So, Prabhupada said, I closed my eyes. He started singing and singing and singing.
And then I opened my eyes and I saw Anandaji was in Tomsin. He said, Krishna didn’t do that much. Now, does that mean that Prabhupada didn’t do anything? Prabhupada said, yes.
So, basically, if there are situations, situations when we can do something, when we are mentally ready, when there are situations when we can’t do anything, then we just offer our consciousness to Krishna. Our consciousness is always to be offered to Krishna. But sometimes it’s only our consciousness, other times it’s our consciousness, along with our circumstances.
We should try to make them as favourable for Krishna’s service as possible. It’s dynamic. It’s not that, that’s why I said that surrender has two beautiful modes.
There is dependency. Dependence on Krishna, as exemplified by Draupadi, and there is diligence for Krishna. As exemplified by Arjuna, when he picks up his bow and ready to strike.
So, for the things that are in our control, there is diligence for Krishna. For the things that are not in our control, there is a dependence on Krishna. So, both the quarters are still favourable.
So, why don’t you apply yourself to Krishna? Both the quarters are still favourable. No strength and faith. I wouldn’t call that as no strength.
Because even then, we are using whatever strength we have to offer our consciousness. And offering our consciousness to Krishna is not useful. Basically, no strength and faith means, I just do nothing at all.
And I think God will do everything. Okay, let me take a more specific example of what I mean by this. In the Bible, there is a story of Jesus’ temptations.
Jesus was fasting on a mountain cave and Satan came with everything over there. And he said, you are teaching all this about God to people and you say God is always protecting you? Yes, of course. So, just jump down this mountain.
Let us see if God protects you. Jesus said, I cannot jump down this mountain. If you push me down, God will protect me.
But I have not seen God myself. So, the idea is, you will be able to do everything. So, now, if you will be pushed down, then you will be protected.
We have the example of Prahlad. He was just a 5-year-old boy. He just couldn’t do anything.
He just closed his eyes and Krishna protected him. But we also have the example of Arjuna. The Bhagavad Gita says that sometimes Krishna destroyed religions by his own hand and sometimes Krishna destroyed by other hands.
So, we have to use our strength, our intelligence to do our best. And when our best is sometimes just nothing, because there is nothing we can do. We need intelligence.
Yes, this idea of world-rejecting kind of spirituality, I just leave everything to Krishna. This is a caricature of God. If it is not, then very carefully.
There can be devotees who have that consciousness. They surrender everything to Krishna. And often in religious literature, this kind of stories are talked about.
But that is a model for extraordinary level of dependence on Krishna. But that is not the standard for everything. Like we may have stories that we decorate to Param Maharaj, we decorate to bhajans, and then people would come and give food.
It’s true that Krishna can do that, Krishna has done that. But generations and generations of kings and brahmins, number of brahmins say that I just sit and Krishna will give me memorisation of all the Gita verses. I have to sit and memorise.
I have to sit and learn the rituals. The idea that I depend on Krishna doesn’t mean that we don’t endeavour. If Vyasadeva had not endeavoured, how would he have written the Mahabharata? He couldn’t have done it.
One last question. How do we do this? How do we do this? Okay. See, Tukaram Maharaj is absorbed in bhajans.
There is a story about he was told to guard a field and he got so lost in reciting the words of the Lord that he forgot to guard. And then people came and stole, or animals broke in and stole something, everything. But then the Lord arranged for everything to be showered.
The Lord can intervene miraculously also. And in that case, the point here is, okay, let me phrase it in a more precise way. A devotee doesn’t deliberately neglect one’s responsibilities.
A devotee doesn’t deliberately neglect one’s friends in the name of devotion. Sometimes, you just get so absorbed in devotion that you forget everything else. And that is ecstasy.
That’s possible. And that’s wonderful when it happens. There are cases where in the Bhagavatam also, Jiva Goswami says that usually the pastime of Krishna is itself chronological.
But then it is actually this pastime happened after this pastime. I’ll give you various evidence for that. And then he says that’s because Shubhdev Goswami had gone to great ecstasy.
So that ecstasy now is not really seen chronologically. But most of the Bhagavatam is chronological. So when that happens, sometimes a devotee becomes so lost that the devotee just doesn’t do anything.
And that is considered a Bhushan. Not a Bhushan. Bhushan is an ornament.
And Bhushan is like contamination. Let’s put it another way. There is material responsibility.
There is material responsibility. And there is spiritual responsibility. Sometimes, somebody might be so caught in spiritual responsibility that they neglect their material responsibility.
Paramah gets so absorbed in remembering Krishna that he forgets his material responsibility. But most people are not that absorbed. What happens is they’ll simply think over here.
They’ll go to their material responsibility. So that’s what I’m talking about. It’s possible of course that somebody can transcend.
And there are glorious examples. Another way to say it is that there are Uttam Adhikaris who are at such a level that they see everyone as a devotee. What do they need to preach? Some people are serving Krishna directly.
Some people are serving Krishna through Maya. Prabhupada tells in Krishna’s book that everybody is dancing in Ras Tilda. Some people are dancing under Yoga Maya.
And some people are dancing under Maha Maya. So there is a pure male-female attraction. There is a perverted male-female attraction.
Everybody is dancing. But the Uttam Adhikari, the topmost devotee, cannot reach. Uttam Adhikari sees everybody as a devotee.
So even if somebody is a Uttama, they come down to the level of Madhyama. They come down to the middle level where they see differences. This is a devotee.
This is a seeker. This is an envious person. And they have to follow.
So yes, somebody can be at a transcendental level. But functioning in the world, you have to function at a level of which is effective in this world also. Okay.
And last question. Questioner asks a question inaudible. Questioner asks a question inaudible.
Okay. How does one get rid of this bone of no faith and no strength? It’s basically… Is that a subtle indication that I should end the class? Is that it? So, it’s tough. Sometimes it’s karma by which our strengths are taken away from us.
We have certain abilities, we might lose our wealth, people may turn against us. But along with that, it could be our own, not just past karma, but it could be our present mistakes also. Sometimes when we get strength, we might just become so arrogant that we alienate everyone else.
And then, when our strengths go away, we have driven everyone else away already. And we are just powerless and frameless at that time. So, we have to… that’s why when we are successful also, we need to respect others.
And the answer is When we are successful, it is very difficult to not become proud. But the easiest way to stay humble is by offering respect to others. Yes, I may be more successful than you, but you are also part of Krishna, you are also doing what you can, and I respect you for that.
So, if we respect and appreciate people, even when we are successful, even when we have strengths, when the strengths go away, those people will be there for us. In today’s society, it’s extremely isolated. At one level, it’s just because of the kind of jobs and structure that we have, the corporate… Post-industrialised society basically ripped people out of their communities and took them far and wide across to work for earning.
And then now with you and me, both members of the family, my dad is working, the people whom their families will spend so much time together. So, it’s like the social boundary is also not there. And on top of that, our culture has also become very individualistic.
At one level, economically, the social economy forces itself, pulls apart. And the ethos has also become very individualistic. I am great, I will do it myself.
So, because of all those factors, when difficulties come, when the strengths go away, nowadays more and more people in social sociology are talking about not only economic capital, but also social capital. Social capital is the kind of connections you have with yourself. And if people don’t have enough social capital, then their quality of life goes down enormously.
So, that’s also something we have to consider. We have to maintain our strengths. If we alienate everyone else, thinking that everyone needs me, I don’t need anyone.
When we look down upon them, then we have a problem. Another thing could be that when we go through those difficulties, whenever we have some abilities, it is not just our ability, it is Krishna’s 15 out of 11 abilities. If we are grateful when ability manifests through us, then we can be graceful when ability doesn’t manifest through us.
It is not our ability, it is Krishna’s manifestation. So, if I am grateful when it happens, then, okay, 11 out of 10, I don’t feel it’s the end of my life. I don’t feel graceful.
I had no strengths, it came to Krishna. I don’t have no strengths, but still I have Krishna. So, it’s important that when we are in a relatively situation of having material strengths, we conceive of those strengths coming from Krishna.
I just wrote an Italian article today before I came here, that’s why I got late. It’s like we are all birds on branches. Now, a bird doesn’t live here when the branches may break.
Because branches, all the time it breaks. But, if the bird’s wings, if the wings are not developed, then if the branch falls, then we crash. So, we are, our wings, we are like birds, our wings are our attraction position, our evasion position.
So, right now, we are sheltered in the branches, and we know to leave those branches. But, we can’t let these branches become our permanent shelter. We have to see these branches, whatever it is, may be our financial situation, our social situation, our health situation, if it is good, we see that it’s a shelter for me, and I need it, but it is not for settling down comfortably into material.
It is for preparing myself for spiritual growth. So that, eventually, when the branch breaks, we fly at least to the next branch. Then again to the next, to the next branch.
Eventually, I fly into the sky position. So, when we are in the position of strength, at that time, we need to value people around us, and we need to value Krishna. Then we can protect ourselves.
We’ll talk one day. Yeah? We’ll talk one to one. Don’t worry.
Thank you. Thank you very much.