How the ritual and the spiritual interrelate
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Disclaimer: This transcript was generated using AI and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies.
Om Jnanati Mirandasya, Jnananjana Shalakaya, Chakshuron Milatam Yena, Tasmai Shri Gurave Namaha. Nama Om Vishnu Padaya, Krishna Prashtaya Bhutale, Shreemad Bhakti Vedanta, Swami Iti Namine, Namaste Saraswati Deve, Gauravani Pracharine, Nirvishesha Shunyavadi, Vashcha Tyadesha Tarine, Vancha Kalpatarubhyascha, Kripa Sindhubhya Evacha, Patitanam Pavanebhyo, Vaishnavebhyo Namo Namaha, Jai Shri Krishna Chaitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Shri Advaita Gadadhara, Shri Vasadhi Gaurav Bhakta Vrinda, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. So I'm grateful to be here with all of you today and we're discussing on the Srimad Bhagavatam, Canto 8, Chapter 16, Texts 33 to 39.
So most of these verses don't have purports. So I'll read first some of the verses and then we can read the main verse. So text 33, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you who are situated as Hiranyagarbha, the source of life, the super soul of every living entity.
Your body is the source of the opulence of all mystic power. I offer my respectful obeisances unto you. Text 34, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you who are the original personality of Godhead, the witness in everyone's heart and the incarnation of Narayana Rishi in the form of a human being.
O personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you. Text 35, My Lord, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you who are dressed in yellow garments, whose bodily hue resembles the Markatha gem and who have full control over the goddess of fortune. O my Lord Keshava, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you.
Text 36, O most exalted and worshipable Lord, best of those who bestow benediction. You can fulfill the desires of everyone and therefore those who are sober for their own welfare worship the dust of your lotus feet. Text 37, all the demigods as well as the goddess of fortune engage in the service of his lotus feet.
Indeed, they respect the fragrance of those lotus feet. May the Supreme Personality of Godhead be pleased with me. Text 38, Kashyap Muni continued, by chanting all these mantras, welcoming the Supreme Personality of Godhead with faith and devotion and offering him items of worship such as padya and argya, one should worship Keshava, Rishikesh, Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Text 39, that's the verse we are discussing today. So, architva, worshipping in this way, gandha, malya, with incense, flower garlands, etc. payasa, with milk, snapayet, should bathe, vibhum, the Lord, vastra, dress, upavita, sacred thread, abharan, ornaments, padya, water for washing the lotus feet, upasparshanai, touching, tatha thereafter, gandha, fragrance, dhoop, incense, adibi, with all of these, cha and archet should worship, dvadash, akshar, vidyaya, with the mantra of 12 syllables.
Translation in purport by His Divine Grace, A. C. Bhaktivedanta, Swamishla Prabhupada. Translation, in the beginning, the devotee should chant the dvadash, akshar mantra and offer flower garlands, incense and so on. After worshipping the Lord in this way, one should bathe the Lord with milk and dress Him with proper garlands, a sacred thread and ornaments.
After offering water to wash the Lord's feet, one should again worship the Lord with fragrant flowers, incense and other paraphernalia. Purport, the dvadash, akshar mantra is om namo bhagvate vasudevaya. While worshipping the deity, one should ring a bell with his left hand and offer padya, argya, vastra, gandha, mala, abharan, bhushan and so on.
In this way, one should bathe the Lord with milk, dress Him and again worship Him with all paraphernalia. So, in this section, Kashyap Muni is responding to his wife's concern about how her children who have lost, who are being overpowered by the devatasuras, how they can gain back promise. And he's told him her to do a particular ceremony, a particular form of sacrifice, which is the essential description of this chapter.
And there are specific ways in which the worship is to be done. There are specific mantras to be chanted. So, based on that, the topic I'll be discussing today is how the ritual and the spiritual interrelate.
So, ritual refers here to the many specific practices that are described, chant this mantra, worship in this way. And we see even in our spiritual lives, we will see that there are many specific things we do in a very specific way. So, we chant particular mantras before we start the Bhagavatam class.
We are even more particular in chanting mantras when we do detourship, when we enter the temple hall and offer our respects, we chant certain mantras. So, there are lots of, what in normal parlance we called as rituals. So, how do these rituals relate with the spiritual? That will be the theme of our discussion.
I'll discuss three broad themes. Why the ritual matters? Second, why the spiritual matters the most? And third, how to give due attention to both? Now, usually the word ritual has a negative connotation. When we say it's just a ritual, you are doing it ritualistically.
What they do is filled with so many rituals. Usually when the word ritual is used, it has the negative connotation. However, it doesn't have to be negative.
So, what actually is being treated negative? What is it that is being treated negatively? That it's just mechanical or it's dysfunctional. Mechanical means it is done without any proper investment of thought, any proper emotion and dysfunctional means it doesn't, it's of no use at all. So, generally that's the negative connotation that is associated with the ritual.
When something is just a ritual, that means or just you do something for the sake of doing it. It doesn't serve any constructive purpose. Now, there's a difference between whether it doesn't serve any constructive purpose and it doesn't have any constructive purpose.
Maybe it has a purpose which is constructive, but that purpose is not being served now. So, usually when the word ritual is used, it is in the sense that it is not serving any purpose now. So, actually for thoughtful people, if they find rituals that don't make sense, then that can alienate them quite a bit and often those who are skeptics or atheists, they zero in on some of the most questionable or bizarre rituals and they just see how stupid these religious people are and often rituals can be an easy way to make a caricature and to ridicule certain aspects of a particular religious practice, of a particular tradition, even of a particular spiritual path.
So, often rituals become like quick targets. Oh, those people do so many things. They're all just rituals.
So, today we'll discuss why rituals matter. So, before we go into that, actually we understand that rituals are universal. It's generally the word rituals associated with religion and religious rituals.
But actually rituals are everywhere in every walk of life. When we meet people, we shake hands. Now, what is shaking hand? It's a ritual.
We say, no, no, it's not ritual. It's a form of greeting. Well, okay, it's a form of greeting.
But in different places, people may greet in different ways. In certain countries, people may bow down from their waist. In some places, people may rub their noses.
In some places, people may fold their hands. So, if you look at it, this is just one way of greeting and it's a ritual in that sense. Shaking hands, when you meet people, it's a ritual and for somebody who doesn't know, well, shaking hands might seem a lot like a stranger.
Now, if you consider, if it is a sports match or there is a speech or there's music, what do we do after that? We clap. Now, what is clapping? Clapping is a ritual. Blowing whistles is a ritual.
Sometimes some people may whistle, some people may rise and they make particular sounds. Now, when I say it's a ritual, the point I'm making is that there could be many different ways to appreciate. So, but clapping is in one way we appreciate that.
There could be, so there is something internal which is there and is expressed in a particular way and often that way becomes standardized and people don't even question it after that. Or we could say blowing candles on birthdays. Now, why blow candles of all things? At least we could say that, okay, shaking hands.
We could think of certain reasons. So, if in the past there was suspicion, two people are meeting, are they enemies, are they going to attack me from behind the back? You shake hands, you show that your hand is weaponless. You could, sociologists could think of some reason for those rituals.
Clapping is one way, if the audience is far away from the performer or who it is, then the universal language in which everybody could appreciate, that's one way is clapping. But what is blowing candles got to do with birthdays? Actually, this is a good example of a secular ritual that is rooted in superstition. So, now there are different words over here.
There are rituals, there are traditions and there are superstitions. Now, among all the words in today's language, tradition has a reasonably respectable connotation. Oh, this is what I do according to my tradition.
This is what my tradition says. In fact, in some ways the word tradition is more respected even than religion. So, if we had a pendulum, tradition would be more respected, then religion or rituals are less respected.
And if you say superstition, and that means there is a value judgment that this is irrational, this is pre-scientific, this is stupid. So, to call something as a superstition means to already prejudge and condemn it. But actually speaking, blowing candles is based on a superstition.
In the Scandinavian countries, in the medieval times, there was the idea that on the birthday of a person, especially a child, some evil spirits would enter into that person and possess that person. And as many evil spirits would enter as the age of that child. And one ritual for exorcism, exorcism is where ghosts are driven out and driven away.
So, one ritual for exorcism was at that time blowing out a candle. So, you have a candle lit and then blow it out. And as much as the age of the person, that many candles we blow it out.
And that was the way it was thought that those evil spirits who might possess the person could be driven out. Now, most people who celebrate birthdays by blowing candles, they don't know about this and they don't believe in it. If they ask, we don't believe in evil spirits.
We don't believe that blowing candles will drive away evil spirits. But still, it's a ritual that is going on. So, rituals in that sense are there in almost every walk of life.
And in fact, if we evaluate, now each ritual can be evaluated from different perspectives and some rituals will pass scrutiny according to certain standards, according to particular traditions. Some rituals may not pass standards. So, the point is that rituals are everywhere and to use, now we might have more positive words for it.
It is a custom or it's a form of greeting, it's an etiquette, it's manners, whatever words you might use, the different words have different connotations. But broadly speaking, what when we have certain standard practices that are done on certain standard occasions, what do they serve? So, basically, we could say rituals, they could do many things, but we could place them in two broad contexts. They provide structure for expressing emotions.
So, if we see someone and we want to smile at them, we want to, we're done well, we want to appreciate. So, how do I appreciate? So, clapping is one way to appreciate. So, emotions can be expressed in different ways by different people.
So, rituals give us a structure for expressing emotions so that people can understand what is being said or what is being done. Now, some people, for example, might express appreciation by clapping, by slapping, by patting somebody on the back, sometimes the pat might become like a slam. So, now that's one way somebody might do it, but it's a structure and along with that, it brings order, rituals, they bring order and predictability to interactions.
Okay, so when we meet, when you meet someone, what do you do at that time? If there were no standard rituals, okay, we meet each other, what do we do after that? We want to get on with business, but before that, there is some expression of cordiality, some expression of affection, of respect or greeting, whatever. So, how do you do that? There is some order, some predictability. Okay, this is what you do, that's culture, that's etiquette, that's good manners.
So, these are all, we could call them broadly in the frame of, within the term of rituals. So, that means what is inside, we express it and then people, when they are interacting, they can interact. So, these two things, for internal-external as well as for expressing the internal externally and for the other person to appreciate that.
Now, if you take this forward and look at religious rituals, what are religious rituals meant for? So, broadly we could say there are three purposes. It is to express devotion. So, when we come into the temple, we may fold our hands, we may bow down, that is what we are doing it to express our devotion.
We may raise our hands and sing to the Lord, sing His glories. So, that's the way we are expressing our devotion. Now, it's not just for expressing devotion, it's also for experiencing devotion.
Experiencing means that sometimes when we start doing the ritual, we may not feel devotional at that time. But if we start doing it, there is a way by which just the actions bring about the inner feelings. So, in that sense, like if I go back to the earlier point of birthdays, there is no intrinsic connection between a birthday celebration and candle, and blowing a candle.
But somehow culturally, historically, a connection has been forged. However, when we talk about the religious rituals, especially those have been given by the saints and the spiritual adepts, there is a significant level of depth to them. So, there is a way by which, this is the body, this is the mind and this is the soul.
So, what we do at the physical level can help us trigger the appropriate emotions at the psychological level and ultimately at the spiritual level. The emotions are connected with spiritual reality and they are also emotions at the spiritual level. Say for example, if I'm sitting right now, instead of that, say if I lean back and I raise my foot and I put my foot here on the table and then I say, I am feeling very humble right now.
Well, really, now maybe I might feel humble, but it's unlikely. What happens is that there are certain externals which are associated with certain internals. And adopting certain externals, at one level it expresses those internals, at another level it also cultivates those internals.
And in that way, there is a way to experience devotion also. So, when certain actions are prescribed, okay, you chant this mantra, you do this worship. So, in some ways, it is with, we have some devotion and we want to express it, but along with expressing the devotion, we'll also start experiencing more devotion as we continue doing it.
In this way, religious rituals, they serve to bring out, to manifest what is within outside, what is within without and also to get it to manifest within. Both things happen. And then there is, of course, another purpose that is to exhibit devotion.
Now, why does devotion need to be exhibited? It can be for various purposes. It can be for solidarity, it can be for a sense of community. Let's say, if there is a religious gathering and everybody raises their hands for praying or everybody raises their voices for singing, then it creates a community, we could say, energy of the community comes together and energy gets multiplied.
So, when we use the word express and exhibit, what is the difference? Generally, when we talk about express, it is for the direct object of devotion. When we are expressing it, it is for the Lord to see. But there are times when exhibiting means we are showing it to others so that others can also be attracted.
Say, for example, now we could do kirtans in our temples, in our small centers wherever we are and that's wonderful. The Lord is there and for his pleasure, in front of him, in his deity form, we dance and we sing. But we may go out and if we go out and sing and dance, what is happening at that time? That is for the world to see.
In fact, when Shri Prabhupada started kirtans for the first time, the kirtans were a big hit in the Lower East Side when he started them and people would love them and there are few people, actually nobody was really a devotee in the sense of the word in which we use the word devotee right now. But many were there and they were all practicing something and they slowly became more and more committed and then Prabhupada said, now we will go out and do kirtans. So then Prabhupada, he took the devotees out and the devotees were alarmed.
He was marching ahead confidently like a king and then the devotees were hesitantly following because he also told all of them, wear your dhoti kurtas, wear your traditional dress and they were carrying some musical instruments with them and they went to the kirtan and then, all of you in New York, all this happened there itself. Tompkins Square Park and other parks, there itself where the kirtans, now that was the first time when Prabhupada went outside and started doing, that was extraordinary. It was such an experience that it stunned everyone and when the devotion was exhibited, what happened was people started coming and what is this going on, people started coming and watching and then more and more people giving up, attracted by it.
So exhibit is not used here in sense of exhibitionism, where one wants to make a big show to others but exhibit is used in the sense of making something available for others so that they can inquire about it, they can participate in it. So it just extends the availability. So the idea is that those who are devotees, those who are on a journey towards transcendence, they don't just want to gross their devotion but they also want to inspire others to grow their devotion.
So that is where all these three, exhibiting the emotion is also important, exhibiting devotion is also important. Now when there is a negative connotation associated with rituals, when does that happen? That's when they become empty, as I said they become either mechanical or dysfunctional and when does that happen? When we are not interested in, all these three are there, but out of which one is not expressing devotion, one is not experiencing devotion, one is only exhibiting devotion. So if something is done only for show, then it becomes empty.
Then that means, okay why are you doing this? Okay because my parents told me to do it or because otherwise my family or my community will be upset if I don't do it. So I have no interest in it, but I am doing it or sometimes it may be just so that one can attract people and gain something from them, maybe they will give some donation, they will praise us. So in the Bhagavad Gita 16th chapter, Krishna talks about the demoniac nature and he says that yajante nama yagyaiste dambhena vidhi purvakam.
So yajante, Krishna uses two words over there to describe the demoniac, yajante and nama yagya. So we might think that they are referring to that they are doing nama yagya, that they are chanting the names of the Lord and the sacrifice of the chanting. But no, they are not doing yagya of naam, they are doing yagya for naam.
That means they are doing the sacrifice not of the holy name, but they are doing sacrifice to get name for themselves. Oh how pious I am, just see. So the demoniac people, they even when they want prestige, their greed for prestige is such that they will want not just a prestige that comes from wealth, the wealth that comes from power, from position, but they also want all the prestige that they can get.
So they also want the prestige that can come from piety. So they have no piety within them, but they want that prestige also. So it's like that desire for prestige is like a fire which consumes everything and that's why if they don't have piety, but they want the prestige that comes from piety, so what do they do? They put on a show of it.
They do yagya for naam. So they may not follow any rituals. It might be out of dambha, out of just a hypocritical show.
It is without any vidhis, without any following of any proper rules. So when this happens, this can often alienate people. So if there is an exhibition without expressing or without experiencing, then how can we make it out? Actually, we can very easily make out whether somebody is doing something, their heart is in it or at least they are trying to get their heart in it or they are just going through it without any interest.
So if you observe carefully, people can make out. After sometime we interact, we can make out. When George Harrison asked Prabhupada that how do we know who is a real spiritual teacher? So Prabhupada said that yes, Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita says that Krishna is the teacher of the Bhagavad Gita.
So anyone who accepts Krishna, he is a real teacher. Prabhupada said, George Harrison said yes. But how do we know if somebody is actually accepting Krishna or not? So Prabhupada then said, look at who is most addicted to Krishna.
That if somebody is really accepting Krishna as a lord, they are actually serving the lord, they should be talking about him constantly, chanting his name, worshipping him, glorifying him. So if somebody says I am following the Bhagavad Gita, I am following a spiritual path, but they are not showing any connection, any appreciation, any devotion for the purpose of that spiritual path, then that is simply exhibitionism. So, Satatam Kirtayantamam Yatantashchuddhudhavrataha.
So Satatam Kirtayantamam, constant glorification is there. So exhibition, when devotion is done only for exhibition, then it is done only at the time it can be exhibited. That means when people are watching me, there will be devotion.
But when nobody is watching me, then we may do all kinds of non-devotional or even anti-devotional things. That's when rituals become empty. So we discussed the first point now, why rituals matter.
Then we will discuss the second point now, why the spiritual matters the most. And the last, how to give attention to both. So now, what exactly is the relationship between ritual and spiritual? I talked about how rituals can express experience or exhibit devotion.
So we could say now, consciousness can be at the material level, consciousness can be at the spiritual level. Now, if we consider this to be like a building with say ground level and the top level, we need a pathway to take the consciousness from the ground level to the top level. And that pathway, it can be called as spiritual practices, it can be called as religious rituals.
So the names are different and sometimes we may use the name which are more acceptable. So for example, when we do our japa, is it a spiritual practice or is it religious ritual? As I said, both the word religion and ritual, they have negative connotations today. That's why we may not use that word.
But the point is, there are certain actions that are being done for expressing, experiencing, exhibiting devotion. And in that sense, they are rituals. So we may use the word spiritual practices for them.
When we are worshiping the deity in a particular way, we move the lamp a particular number of times, we may point the lamp to particular parts of the deity, we may offer the various items in a particular sequence. So these are all, we could call them as rituals. The name, we may choose a name that is more appealing.
But the point is, these are external that are done and the purpose is that we want to raise our consciousness to the spiritual level. So devotion, when it is expressed, experienced, exhibited, by this our consciousness rises upward to the spiritual level. And unless there is spiritualization of the consciousness, whatever we do, it will be superficial.
It can even be a waste of time. In the Bhagavatam, in the chapter of Divinity and Divine Service, it is said, that whatever practices one might be doing, there the specific is being referred to as Varanashram. If somebody is doing Varanashram, whatever it might be, whatever practices, duties, rituals one might be doing, if that doesn't increase our attraction to the Lord, then it is Shrama evahi kevalam.
So what we discussed earlier, it is dysfunctional, it is empty. So that's what happens with rituals, if they don't spiritualize our consciousness. Now when we talk about spirituality, what all is involved in it? So there is knowledge, there is practice and there is desire.
So we want to raise our consciousness to spiritual level. These three things are in general, by practice we can refer to some skills, the means of how we do it. Actually this is required in general, these three are required for doing any particular thing.
If you want to learn a particular skill, somebody wants to learn music, somebody wants to learn computer, somebody wants to learn a software language, somebody wants to learn to play a particular sports. They have to have the knowledge, okay, what exactly is the sport about, what are the rules, what exactly is involved in it. Then they have to develop the practical skills, okay, throw the ball like this, don't cross this line, don't do this.
If it's football, you know, can't touch the ball with the hands and then there's desire, I want to do it. So these are in one sense, if you want to learn anything, these three are there involved in it. So if you consider, the knowledge is what is provided by the philosophy.
Then the practices, what is it to be practiced, what is to be done, that is associated with the religion or the rituals. And then the desire is something which has to be present within the individual. Without the desire being present, nothing can be done.
You can provide knowledge, you can provide practice, but as I said that if the heart is not there, nothing is going to happen. So when will our consciousness rise to the spiritual level? When we know, oh, we have the knowledge that there is a higher level of consciousness and then we have some pathway, okay, this is the way to go there. I might see the 10-story building, oh, this building has a 10-level story also, okay, that's interesting and I want to go there, okay, I want to go there, that's the desire.
And how do I go there? I can't just jump up and like a superman or something go there. I need a stairs, I need an elevator, whatever. So there's knowledge, desire and practice.
It's how our consciousness will rise to the various levels of reality and the corresponding levels of consciousness. Religion will provide the pathways to go there and now the desire has to be in the individual. Quite often this desire is triggered by association.
So when one individual has that desire, by associating with that individual, the desire comes. So spirit plus ritual is equal to spiritual. When a ritual is done in the right spirit, then it becomes spiritual.
And when does this right spirit come up? What do we mean by the right spirit? There are two aspects to it. We could say the rational aspect and the emotional aspect. The rational aspect is that I know what I am doing.
That is the knowledge part. And the emotional aspect is I want to do it. I want to get to that level.
I want to achieve that level of consciousness. We see Krishna uses one phrase repeatedly in the Bhagavad Gita and that is, mai arpit mano buddhir, mam evaiśyasya saṁśayaḥ, mai arpit mano buddhir. So mind and intelligence.
So broadly we could say, this is referring to knowledge and desire. When I am offering my intelligence to Krishna, that means I know, I have knowledge of understanding that, I have the knowledge to understand that Krishna is the ultimate reality and I want to raise my consciousness to the level of Krishna consciousness. And arpit mano means the emotional aspect.
Yes, I love Krishna. I want to love Krishna. So the knowledge and the desire, when both of them come together, that's when our devotion becomes transformational.
So spirit plus ritual becomes spiritual. So when are the empty rituals? When the ritual is empty. Now we are talking more about religious rituals over here.
When there is no spirit, they become empty. Empty means they can be unproductive or they can even be counterproductive. So counterproductive, for example, we say that if somebody is chanting the holy names, but they are chanting with what could be called as, there is involuntary inattention and there is intentional inattention.
Involuntary inattention means that I am trying to focus, but I am not able to focus. My mind is wandering here and there. But intentional inattention means, say, we are deliberately maybe reading our whatsapp messages or maybe watching some news or watching something else, completely unconnected and we are just trying to finish off the team.
Then that could be offensive. So then the rituals become, they cannot just unproductive, they can even become counterproductive. So this is a four quadrant depiction of this.
We are talking about neither the spirit is there nor the rituals are there, then it's undesirable. The rituals are being done, but the spirit is not there, then it's superficial. Then superficial means it's just external.
And then if the spirit is there, but the ritual is not there, then it's insubstantial. Why? Because the spirit can't be sustained. Whenever there is anything internal, there has to be some amount of expression externally.
If we consider devotion to be like a relationship, then in every relationship, there has to be some expression of the emotion. If a baby is crying and then the mother says, I love the baby, or the baby is crying, the other family member, the baby is crying, I love my baby. If you love your baby, then go and pick up the baby and comfort the baby and make sure that she stops crying.
No, I love my baby. Well, yes, you may genuinely have love in the heart, but unless it is expressed tangibly, it's insubstantial. So actually when ritual and spirit both come together, that's when it becomes transformational.
So there is the internal, there is internal mood, there is internal understanding, internal desire both. And then there is the appropriate way of doing it, which is external. Then it becomes transformational.
So we discussed why the ritual matters, why the spiritual matters the most and how to give due attention to both. That's the last part we'll discuss now. So there could be varying rituals, but there could be one intent.
So rituals can vary depending on time, place, circumstance. So now we could take a very broad example that how the externals can vary if you consider driving. Now in driving, we have traffic rules.
Now the right side is actually the wrong side in India. Because if you're driving on the right side, that's the wrong side. You're driving on the left side.
But the right side is the right side. So we can use the word right in the geographical or the physical sense and we can use the word right in the legal sense. So the right side is not always the right side, they're everywhere.
So the rule, the purpose is the same to regulate traffic. But the method to do it is exactly opposite in the sense that the side of the road where we're traveling. So rituals can be different, so in different traditions.
So in our tradition, we may fold our hands and offer our prayers and supplication and devotion to the Lord. In some other traditions, they may raise their hands. In some other traditions, they may move their hands in a particular way.
All these are rituals. But they are meant to express the same internally. So if we just focus too much on the externals, then from the ritual, one can easily become fanatical.
Because if you're not doing this ritual, whatever you're doing is wrong and you're doomed. So but if we understand that there can be different rituals in different contexts, then we understand that we can appreciate different rituals and also focus on whatever is most appropriate for us. Now in our own tradition, we have there are different rituals at different ages.
So Krita Yadhyayato Vishnu, Treta Yadhyayato Yudho Makhe, Dwapara Paricharyaayam, Kaloutadhari Keerthanath. So according to time rituals can vary. The main process of spiritual realization was meditation in Satya Yuga, fire sacrifices in Treta Yuga, deity worship in Dwapar Yuga and in present age Kali Yuga it is Kirtan.
So broadly the variations can be because of Desha, Kaala and Patra. According to the place, according to the time and according to the candidate. So time, now when we talk about circumstance, circumstance also includes the candidate.
So Patra literally means the container, like we have a Patra for placing something. So the Patra can be the individual who is doing something or it can be the circumstance in which something is done. So both include the Patra.
So Desha, Kaala and Patra, all three are, they may vary and that may lead to variations. Now there is one significance about Bhakti rituals that actually in some ways the ritual and the spiritual are the same because the limbs of Bhakti are eternal. We glorify Krishna now and we will glorify Krishna eternally.
We chant the name of Krishna now, we will chant the name eternally. However, what happens is our realization and appreciation of them is progressive and we may chant the holy name, then very advanced devotees may chant the holy names, the advanced devotees will chant with greater appreciation, greater realization and the conclusion is that we respect the ritual and we pursue the spiritual. We don't necessarily, we don't disrespect the ritual nor do we reduce everything to the ritual because sometimes the same purpose may be pursued through some other ritual.
But our purpose is to pursue the spiritual. But we can't pursue the spiritual without a particular, some particular means. So, if we look at the particular descriptions that are described here in this section, it's not that we are going to chant the same mantras, Radha Chakshala Mantra is mentioned over there.
Om Namo Bhagvate Vasudevaya. So that is a particular mantra that was recommended to the Aditi at that time. That is not the mantra we will chant.
We will chant the Hare Krishna Mantra. We may chant the Gayatri Mantra if we are second initiated. But still we will continue, we will still try to express our devotion to the Lord.
So we accept that mantra, accept that as a valuable potent ritual, but we focus on whatever has been prescribed to us according to our time and circumstance by our teachers. So in this way, we can integrate the ritual and the spiritual in our devotional journey. So to summarize, we discussed today about, I'll quickly finish, now darshan has started.
I discussed these three broad points, why the ritual matters, why the spiritual matters the most and how to give your attention to both. So rituals have negative connotations when they are mechanical or dysfunctional. And we had discussed various rituals like shaking hands, clapping, blowing candles.
So rituals provide structure to our emotions and they give order and predictability to our interactions. Then we talked about what do the religious rituals do? Three things. They express devotion, they experience devotion, they exhibit devotion.
Then when do the rituals become empty? When there is no expression or experience, there is only exhibition of devotion. That's when they become empty. Then why the spiritual matters the most? Because there are levels of consciousness and we want pathways to rise from one level to another level.
So those can be called as religious rituals or spiritual practices. So then we discussed about how to develop the spiritual consciousness, that is knowledge, practice and desire. So the knowledge comes from the philosophy, the practice comes in the form of the rituals, the religion and the desire comes in the individual which we can do by association.
Then I talked about how rituals may become empty, that is unproductive or counterproductive. And then we had this diagram of how ritual and spiritual may interact. And then the last part I discussed is that rituals may vary.
We don't insist that everybody has to follow the same rituals everywhere. That might be fanatical. The rituals may vary according to age, it can vary broadly according to time, place, circumstance.
So if you respect the ritual and pursue the spiritual, then we all can elevate our consciousness and help others elevate their consciousness. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Okay, this is a very important question. So thank you Jhanvi Mataji for your question. That we say that we are non-sectarian, yet we have very specific rituals and prayers and dresses which seem that we are a sect and we belong to a specific culture.
Okay, I'll answer this in three broad ways. First is that there is this presumption that universality should mean non-specificity. But is that necessary? Is that a valid presumption? So in fact, if you consider it that way, this is one of the reasons why people say actually we should have an impersonal form of worship.
Because the impersonal will be universal. Because as soon as you worship a personal form, that itself makes it specific. So okay, you are worshipping Krishna.
Krishna is a particular God who is worshipped in a particular tradition, then you can go into historical analysis. Okay, this group of people started worshipping, now we may or may not agree with the specifics of historical scholars. But if we agree with the presumption that for something to be universal, it cannot be specific, then where does it stop? We could say Krishna itself is a particular, is God manifesting in a particular form.
He has particular preferences, he wears a peacock feather, he could wear any other ornament, he plays a flute, he could play any other instrument. He loves cows. Of course, he loves other animals also, but his personal preference is towards cows.
So just because something is universal, that doesn't mean it can't be nonspecific. It has to be nonspecific. So we need to challenge this conception, does the universal have to be nonspecific? Universal, we could say, it is in universal application.
So if we consider the law of gravity, the law of gravity is very specific. Say F is equal to g m1 m2 upon r square, the r is a square, it's not a cube, g is a specific value. So there are specifics in that law, but that specificity does not detract from its universality.
So we can say universal means it's applicable everywhere, true everywhere. So now how is, because gravity works everywhere, in that sense it's universal, although the figures within gravity may be specific. So similarly, what our understanding is that Krishna is the Lord of all living beings, not just all human beings, but all living beings.
So I am the parent of all living beings, all living beings are my parts. So in that sense, the scope of Krishna conscious philosophy as given by Krishna himself is universal. So just because something is specific doesn't necessarily mean it can't be universal.
It can be specific because the ultimate reality in the personal philosophy is specific. So that's first point and I appreciate that the thrust of the question is something different, but this is an unspoken presumption which we need to challenge, that we can have specifics and still be universal. Having said that, it is a complicated matter when that which is transcendental, so basically if we had like a y-axis, there is a y-axis, there is a zero point, this is the negative and it's a positive axis.
So the general idea is that there are different people, different cultures and they all have their specifics and then from those specifics, we want to extract something which is non-sectorial, which is universal. So in the material understanding, to come to the universal, we have to avoid the specifics so or we have to go beyond the specifics. Now that is okay, but then that brings us from the philosophical perspective, that brings only the zero level.
Now there is the spiritual level of reality and that is specific. So that specific spiritual level of reality is not at the material level. So in that sense, it's different, although it's specific.
So here in the material world, we can say specific could refer to sects, to particular groups and that can make us feel sectarian because it appears sectarian. But we have to understand that the ultimate reality in our vision is specific and although it's specific, it's non-sectarian. Now the question comes up, when the specific spiritual reality is to be accessed in this world.
So are there specific means for accessing it or can there be varying means for accessing it? And I think that is where the debate comes up seriously. So if we look at India itself, we have Krishna Bhakti which is practiced historically for many many millennia, for many centuries actually, even if we took a historical perspective, but many millennia also from the scriptural perspective and we do see the Krishna Bhakti also has its regional variations. The Krishna Bhakti in Bengal is different from Krishna Bhakti in Maharashtra or even Krishna Bhakti in Vrindavan or the Krishna Bhakti in South India.
So Krishna Bhakti has its regional expressions. When Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's followers went to Manipur and Manipur became the first Gaudiya Vaishnav state. Manipur is in the far east in India.
So now they did not expect or demand that the Manipuri devotees stop practicing their Manipuri culture. So within their Manipuri culture, Manipuri dress, Manipuri dance form, Manipuri musical forms within that became permeated with Krishna Bhakti and then later on when ISKCON went and became established in Manipur, then there were this Manipuri Gaudiya Vaishnavas who have been practicing since their birth for many generations. But they were having their own music, their own dance forms, their own dresses and our devotees said actually you are not a devotee till you adopt the way we are doing it.
That seemed quite presumptuous and initially devotees did that and eventually they realized no, we can't do this. So Bhaktiswaru Damodar Maharaj, he was quite prominent in pioneering preaching in Manipur and eventually he had Manipuri Kirtan groups coming to Mayapur and traveling across the world and they became a very beautiful feature of variety that could be there within Bhakti. So regional variations in the expression of devotion, in the way to reach Krishna, they have been an integral part of Krishna Bhakti.
That's how it is spread at a very basic level. The local languages when they were used, that's when things spread more and then with respect to food, dress and other things, there are variations of how they have been expressed. Now when we started the Krishna conscious movement all over the world, when Prabhupada started it, Prabhupada began at the time when the counterculture was quite prominent and in a sense, most of his early followers, they were disillusioned with the mainstream culture and Prabhupada presented Krishna consciousness in a way that appealed to them, wherein they already were disillusioned with their culture in many ways and Prabhupada presented them a whole new way of living and that was a part of the adventure of becoming Krishna conscious.
Now, when Prabhupada came to India, he met with many life members and many of these life members who were primarily cultivated by him during his stay in India, they all had their own cultural expressions. They had their own Deities at home. They were worshipping particular Devatas, they were following particular spiritual teachers.
Prabhupada did not disrupt them so much, Prabhupada engaged them in Bhakti and he elevated them from where they were. So now we could say that the life members never became serious devotees. So we can't take their example, but the point is that actually Prabhupada accommodated them.
So now if we consider three levels, the devotees who were like full-time living in the temples, dedicated their life to Prabhupada and the life members who were contributing in various ways to Prabhupada's mission, there are two levels. Today most of our movement is in between. We are congregation devotees, most of our congregation devotees are much more commitment in life members, but they are not full-time devotees who are living in the world, who are living in the temples with no connection with the world except to see it for missionary work.
So then in one sense, we as a movement, as a scone are in uncharted waters. So for devotees who were well-established in the community as a part of the congregation, how much of the externals are considered to be essential and how much are they are considered to be optional, this it is some people feel no, that is they take the model that how Prabhupada trained his disciples initially and this is what everyone should do and there can be quotes for substantiating that, but there are also quotes for the other way. Especially if you want to consider Western outreach, there is a very important conversation that Srila Prabhupada had with Allen Ginsberg and Allen Ginsberg had the same concern.
We look to Indian, to Hindu and there is a dress and there is the food and there are the mantras and Prabhupada has a long conversation with him and Prabhupada starts by saying actually you can chant any name of God, can wear any dress, you can offer any food to Krishna and gradually Prabhupada brings to what is essential. So that conversation can be a very good guidance for those of us who are trying to navigate this uncharted waters. So I would say this is something which different leaders in our movement are trying different things and in some cases the culture attracts, in some cases the cultural aspects attract, in some cases the cultural aspects alienate.
So as our movement diversifies, as our movement expands, I think overall we will have to, there will have to be some amount of autonomy for local devotees to adapt to their particular situations. So that's how organically the Bhakti tradition has spread and now how much can be adapted, how much has to be adopted, that means whatever in the past we continue that, how much has to be adapted means what we take in and adjust according time, place, circumstance, that will be a matter for discussion. Sometimes it can become a matter for acrobatic debates also which is unfortunate.
But in principle just to be universal or non-sectarian, we can't say the ultimate reality is non-specific. We have to emphasize the ultimate reality is still specific and still can be non-sectarian. Now to access that ultimate reality, are specific methods essential? Well historically the way we started, they were the markers of somebody becoming a devotee.
Now whether that is what has to be done now and forever, in the future, that is something which is open to discussion. So in general we need to, even if we have the externals, we don't have to present them as something which is they have, everybody has to adopt to become a devotee. So in general if we present, there is cultural curiosity and there is, I'll conclude with this point, it's a long answer, but there is cultural curiosity and there is cultural commitment.
So if there is an adequate bridge, adequate distance between the two, in the culture itself people are curious about it. Their multiculturalism is attractive value in today's world and say we have Indra Nandana Maharaj and others, they present the festival of India, where they present the culture. Now people can come and wear Indian dress, they can have Gopi dots and they can have these decorations and stuff like that and people like it.
So there is cultural curiosity that is there. So we don't have to conceal our culture completely thinking that it will alienate people because that also attracts people. There is cultural curiosity.
But what happens is from cultural curiosity to cultural commitment. Not just you explore this, but you have to do this if you want to become a devotee. So when we start doing that, that is where it becomes a problem.
So we have one school of thought which says there is no need to have any of the aspects of the culture. So they say that we just present everything in a way that is adapted to the local culture. The other says that everything has to be kept as it is.
So because these two are the extremes of pendulum. So certainly we cannot demand cultural commitment and cultural conformity from everyone. This is how you have to dress, this is how you have to become, just if you want to become a devotee.
But we don't have to remove the option that sometimes the culture itself may attract people also. So if you present the culture as an object of curiosity from which may begin some people's journey, but we don't demand cultural conformity, then it's possible that some people may be attracted to the culture. Some people may not be attracted to the specifics of the culture, but they may be attracted to the universal principles.
Now I was in Australia and there one of the Australian leaders, he was telling me for Western outreach, they're also in Australia, Western outreach says, one of the most important things we need is to teach people the difference between the essentials and the rituals. So he said that they had a program for Western people in the temple and then after that, an old lady came to me and says, you know, when you blow the conch, why does everyone kiss the floor? Why does everyone kiss the floor? Now her idea was, everyone is bowing down their head, she thought you're kissing the floor. So she says, do I also have to kiss the floor every day? So that is something which is completely alien for them.
So we don't have to overwhelm people by things like this. So I think if we can have that balance where we don't downplay or deny our culture, but we don't insist on cultural conformity, then the culture can be one way that may attract people to Krishna, but we don't have to reduce the path to Krishna to the culture alone. Okay, if you adopt this culture, that's wonderful.
If you don't want to adopt the culture, still there are, within your own culture also, you can find the appropriate ways to come to Krishna. So thank you very much Madanji for the thoughtful question. Hare Krishna.