How to have loving exchanges 2 – Cultivating non-judgmentality

[Retreat at Sydney, Australia]

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Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
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So that therein at least both sides are given a fair hearing. So similarly, if there is at least there is a trust that, okay I won’t be judged without being heard properly. So non-judgmentality is actually the basic level for some trust to develop.
Otherwise there might be trust about other aspects, but not in terms of opening our heart. You may trust that this person is not going to embezzle any money, this person is not going to do this or that, but whether we can open our heart to some person, we don’t know about that. So trust has many different aspects, but this is important because we have to see that we all have certain emotions and those emotions cannot be wished upon.
If you feel in a particular way, therefore different feelings are also of different kind. Sometimes a feeling just comes for a few minutes and just goes off. But sometimes some feelings stay for a significant amount of time.
So when a feeling stays for a significant amount of time, say we are feeling very angry about someone, we are feeling very wild about something that has happened. Now if that has been there for a long time, then we can’t wish it away. Somebody else might say it is a small thing, why are you making it big? But for us, it may not be a small thing.
This is where, last year I think when I had a seminar, we had talked about the mind and the mind is a level of reality in its own, just like there is the body, there is the mind and there is the soul. So the mind is a level of reality in its own means that when the mind, when a particular mind feels in a particular way, we can’t just wish it away. It’s a simple example.
Some people are very prone to cold. So as soon as the temperature drops a little, they start shivering and they have to wear a lot of warm clothes and they are very cold sensitive. Now if somebody is shivering, somebody is feeling very cold and we tell them, don’t feel cold.
What do you mean, don’t feel cold? That’s not a matter of choice for me. I am feeling cold. Now you may say, okay, although I am feeling cold, I will not just stay under a comforter in my bed.
I will still wear some warm clothes and go out. I can’t control how my body reacts to a particular situation. I may still persevere in my duty, but I can’t control that physical response to a particular stimulus.
So similarly, each of our minds are also different. And just as cold is a physical reaction to a life change or a life event, so a certain event has happened and there is a physical reaction that you feel cold and you start shivering. So similarly, our one important part of non-judgmentality is to see emotions simply as psychological reactions to life events.
See emotions as psychological reactions to life events that just as it’s not right, there is no right or wrong about feeling cold. Yes, I am feeling cold now. So similarly, if somebody feels angry, somebody feels hurt, somebody feels upset.
So it’s not right or wrong that somebody is feeling depressed. Now if somebody is feeling depressed, in many traditional societies, sometimes any mental health issue is seen like a character flaw. Why are you feeling so depressed? Don’t be weak like that.
No, it may not be a matter of character flaw. So, our emotions are simply psychological reactions to life events. Now, we could consider later whether it is a healthy reaction or unhealthy reaction.
But when the reaction is there, it is there. And there is no point in trying to deny or suppress it or even judge it at that time. First, being non-judgemental means just accepting that, okay, this is the reaction that I am having.
Now, I was with one devotee in America and this devotee, his child had got some sickness and child had passed away when he was very small. So, this devotee came and told me, I want to talk with you. So, he said yes.
He was initially talking many things but there was nothing specific that was coming. I told him, don’t worry, whatever you want to speak, you can speak that. He said, I don’t know, but I am feeling very angry with Krishna.
I said, are we allowed to feel angry with Krishna? So, I told him that actually it is not a matter of being allowed or not allowed. Now, Krishna is big enough that he can accommodate even our anger. If Krishna is big enough, then we can accommodate our anger also.
So, when Draupadi was attempted to be dishonoured and at that time when she was saved, the endless rope came over there, but nobody saw Krishna over there. And then later on, when they were in the forest, Krishna came over there. And when Krishna came to meet, at that time, she broke down.
She said, Krishna, I prayed to you. I am your friend, I am your relative, I am your devotee. I deserve your protection.
Why did you come to help me? Now, Krishna doesn’t say over there, how dare you doubt my perfect plan. Krishna doesn’t speak like that at all over there. Krishna simply says at that point, O Panchali, I did not know.
I had gone to Dwarka and a demon attacked Dwarka. And Shalva, who had been attacking Dwarka, I was busy defending. As soon as I came to know, I immediately came over there.
He says, those who have dishonoured you, they will have to bear the fruit of their evil actions. O Panchali, even through such a terrible adversity, you stayed fixed in Dharma. You remained the beacon of Dharma where everybody else was falling towards Adharma.
And that is your glory. Your glory will be established in the world. So, he did not judge her for her anger.
Similarly, when Abhimanyu was killed, at that time, Arjuna was shattered. And after that, he turned around and he lashed out at his brothers. He said, all of you, are all your weapons just bangles? You couldn’t protect my son? And he lashed out at them.
And then he turned around and he said to Krishna, Krishna, you must have known what happened. Why didn’t you tell me? And he was just crying and lashing out. And again, Krishna did not judge him at that time.
Krishna simply hugged him and he said, O Partha, just see, all your brothers are as grief-struck as you are. O Partha, do not increase their pain by your words. Great people, in times of adversity, act to decrease others’ pain, not increase their pain.
So, Krishna does not judge him for his emotions. So, sometimes, in particular situations, certain emotions may come up. And we don’t have to judge ourselves for those emotions.
So, I was telling this devotee that if you feel angry toward Krishna, that is also because you have a relationship with Krishna. You could have that anger toward Krishna could even have led to atheism directly. I reject God.
I don’t believe that God exists. But, now Krishna is big enough to even accommodate our anger. And that devotee told me he had gone and told some other devotee and he said, No, you are already suffering because of your bad karma.
Now you are getting angry toward Krishna, that is terrible bad karma. You will suffer even more. Now, Krishna is not a judgemental God who is waiting to catch us do wrong.
Hey, you did that wrong thing. I am going to punish. Now take this karma.
Krishna is not there to catch us when we do wrong. Krishna is there to catch us when we fall. Krishna is like a mother.
When a baby, when a small child is learning to walk, the child is learning to walk and the child falls down. The mother then gleefully starts clapping, Hey, you fell down. The mother runs there and catches the child.
The mother wants the child to learn to walk, but the mother is there to catch the child. So similarly, with respect to us, as devotees when we are dealing with each other, that we are here to catch each other when we fall, not to catch each other when we do wrong. Hey, you did this wrong thing, you did this wrong thing.
We all of us will go through difficult situations. And those people who are right now high and mighty thinking, Oh, this is the way you should be as a devotee and this is how you should not be as a devotee. Now, how a life of devotion will manifest in the world, we don’t know that.
Each of us has our own individual emotions. And only when we are non-judgemental, a devotee shouldn’t think like this, a devotee shouldn’t feel like this. We can’t legislate our feelings.
We do need to regulate our actions. We need to regulate our actions. But we can’t legislate our emotions and say, I shouldn’t feel like this.
Well, I am feeling like this, what do I do next? I want to process that emotion. So, we could say that anger towards Krishna is, somebody might say it’s not a right thing. It’s not a matter of right or wrong.
Okay, if I’m feeling angry right now, okay, I’m feeling angry. What do I do with it? I deal with it. We can vent out our anger, write out our anger.
And then we see how there have been great devotees who have gone through great difficulties. And then how Krishna has brought good even out of the bad in future. So, when we say that we should see everything as Krishna’s mercy, actually, that’s very, very difficult.
And I’m not sure whether any, at least I’m not sure, I’m very sure, nobody told Draupadi to see her Vastraharan as Krishna’s mercy. Nobody told Sita to see her abduction as the Lord’s mercy. There are situations which you can see.
We cannot see everything as Krishna’s mercy, but we can see Krishna’s mercy in everything. The two are different things. We cannot see everything as Krishna’s mercy, but we can see Krishna’s mercy in everything.
That means that this terrible thing has happened. Say, a loved one gets an accident or somebody we are close to passes away. Then, okay, we don’t know why that has happened.
But we can see Krishna’s mercy in the fact that at least we have spiritual knowledge, we know their souls, they’ve gone somewhere else. And if we chant for them, we pray for them, we do the bhakti for them, offer to them, spiritually we can offer them some fruits of what we have done. So, we can see Krishna’s mercy in that situation.
In this situation also, I have some resources by which I can try to cope with the situation. I can deal with the situation. So, that is seeing Krishna’s mercy in situations.
We can’t see all situations as Krishna’s mercy. Sometimes bad things do happen in life. And when those bad things happen, some good may come out of the bad.
But that doesn’t mean that bad itself is good. The bad things are bad things. But good can come out of it.
So, being non-judgemental, the important part of it is that we don’t reduce bhakti to certain stereotypes. This is how bhakti has to be. This is how a devotee has to be.
No, bhakti is much bigger. And in different situations, different things need to be done. When Srila Prabhupada was as a grihasta, he was running his pharmacy business.
He was trying various ways to earn money. So, some of his godbrothers, they told him, or they told Bhakti Sahasra Thakur, and they told him also, why are you so caught in this household affairs? You know philosophy. You can play nice spadanga.
You can give nice classes. You are good in English. Just join us.
And when Prabhupada resisted, they felt that he was attached. Now, Bhakti Sahasra Thakur saw the big picture. He said, in due course, he will do everything.
In due course, he will do everything. And then, so Prabhupada, at a particular phase in his life, he had to do particular things. So, we don’t really know how Krishna is dealing with people at different times.
That’s why, rather than reducing Bhakti to certain stereotypes, if you are a devotee, you have to think like this, you have to feel like this. But, okay, if I am thinking differently, I am feeling differently. So, rather thinking of Krishna conscious like one box in which you have to fit in, we have to see that this Krishna conscious is extendable.
And there are many different situations in which you can be Krishna conscious in different ways. So, the point which I am driving towards here is that all of us, when we go through life in this world, at that time, we have to see that we will all go through various kinds of situations and various kinds of emotions associated with that. So, rather than being judged, we need to be understood at that time.
And for us, we need to try to understand others when they are opening their hearts. That’s why trust is very important. So, that’s again, when a person is coming from a frame of reference, they are feeling so bereaved, so upset, so angered by a particular loss.
And that anger is going toward Krishna also. Now, philosophically speaking, Krishna is not responsible for what happens in the world. Krishna is the ultimate cause.
Now, the immediate cause can be various circumstances, our own past karma. It can be very complicated. But the point is, we don’t have to judge or condemn people for their emotions.
Accept it and then see how to move forward. So, any reflections, any questions about this at this stage? Yes, ma’am. Ok, yeah.
So, some people are not comfortable showing their vulnerability. I don’t think anyone is comfortable showing their vulnerability. Except for, there are hypochondriacs, people who pretend to be sick so that they can get attention and affection.
So, like that, there are people who we could say are mental hypochondriacs. That means, when they are in distress, they broadcast their distress to the whole world so that somebody will pay them some attention. One devotee recently told me, one counsellor, as devotees, when we write a message to each other, say, please accept my humble obeisances.
So, this devotee said, I got a message from one devotee, please accept my final obeisances. So, the idea was that he, this implication was, I am going to commit suicide, you give me some time now. So, sometimes some people, they just, they exhibit their emotions so that they can draw some attention to themselves.
But nobody in general likes, those are exceptions, nobody in general likes to be vulnerable. So, it is always a challenge to lower our guard and share our vulnerability. But it is up to us to find out whether by not showing that vulnerability, is it going to go away.
It is like say, there are some wounds, which are minor wounds. If we just slipped and fell down, there was a small scratch, it will heal on its own. But there are some wounds, which are major wounds.
Now, unless we get them treated, they will worsen. So, if we have a wound near a private part or something, still if we have to go to a doctor, we cannot have shyness at that time. We have to actually go to a proper doctor and get it treated.
So, if there are minor issues, which with time they can be healed, that is good. But if they are not getting healed, then with the right person, that is why there is a courage to trust. Not naivety, not cynicism.
So, here naivety would be that, it is all right, nothing, there is no problem at all. But if it is not healing, if that particular feeling is staying on for a long time, it is draining us, it is burning us, then it says that the wound denied is a wound deepened. When a wound is denied, all that happens is it gets deepened, it gets worsened.
So, sometimes revealing our vulnerability is the way to emotional healing. Otherwise, the emotional wound will stay on and it will worsen. Now, moving on to the next point here, I will talk about the in non-judgmentality.
We have two parts. Till now, I talked about the trust part. But if there is trust, what does it mean? Can you go ahead? Yeah.
So, we start observing and hearing to understand, not to confirm our understanding. That means we have a particular understanding and then we just look at that and just reinforce that. So, often we look at things in a particular way, we just see things from only one frame of reference.
And so, we want to look so that we can confirm, not that we confirm our understanding, this is how you are. What are you, what are you up to really? How are you thinking? How are you feeling? Let us try to understand that. So, if you have to be non-judgemental, then we observe things or observe people as they are.
In science, it is said that theories that a scientist likes, theories, they call them facts. And the facts they do not like, they call them theories. So, there is always that bias which comes up.
And that comes up in our relationships also. Now, if we see somebody eating a lot and if we do not like that person, we will say, such a glutton, such a glutton. And if you like that person and that person is eating a lot, you say, must have been very hungry.
And now, the action is the same. But based on our preconceptions, you know, whatever action we see, we will let it reinforce our, reinforce our understanding. But actually, sometimes our understanding need, does not need to be reinforced, it needs to be reexamined.
So, now we cannot operate without, without having some, some frames of reference. The frames of reference are not bad. We do need frames of reference.
But if the reality is something different from our frame of reference, then we need to let reality process, let reality cause us to reexamine our frame of reference. Let us look at some points from this perspective. If we consider in the Chaitanya Charita Amrit, there are, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he had multiple followers, somewhere more or less equal, somewhere is older to him, somewhere equal to him and somewhere like his disciples.
So, the Goswamis were among his disciples. And even from a historical perspective, the Goswamis are very fascinating characters. They were born in Brahmin families, but then they were forced by the Nawab at that time to convert to Islam because they were so competent that he wanted them to work for him.
And because they were not ready to work, he told them that I will, I will torture and desecrate, torture the Vaishnavas and I will desecrate all the Vaishnava places unless you work for me. It is interesting. Is there a switch on or something over there? Maybe you could just switch that off.
It is just moving without moving. So, now when Shravan Goswami and Rupa Goswami, they were brothers and because at that time, you see, especially Bengal was a very prosperous place. And most of the Islamic invaders came from the west.
And many of them, they could not really reach to the south of, southern part of India was protected. But they went across the Indian heartland and they conquered Bengal. And it was not just one invader came.
If you see among the, there were the Lodhis and there were the Mughals and there were the Turks and so many other people were coming. So, when Bengal was ruled by the Muslim king Nawab Hussain Shah, so at that time Rupa and Shravan Goswami, they became like a buffer between him and the Hindu population over there. So, because they were working for him and he also needed them because they were so competent.
So, as more extreme intolerant tendencies, they would cushion. So, they externally became Muslims, although they internally had their own devotional practises going on. So, while they were living like this, they heard about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and then they wrote letters to him.
And they longing to meet Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, finally after a long long time, they met him in Ramakiri. And they expressed their desire that we want to surrender to him. And Rupa Goswami was the first person who managed to surrender.
He left everything and because Sanatana Goswami was still there, so the king allowed him to go, Nawab allowed him to go. But then when Sanatana Goswami also wanted to go, Nawab became angry and he put him in jail. And somehow Sanatana Goswami escaped from the jail.
And then he came on a long adventurous journey. At one particular point, he might have been murdered because his servant had kept some gold coins. He just gave those gold coins.
And finally from Bengal, they went all the way to Varanasi. Now it was a very unpredictable journey. Because first of all, he was a fugitive escaping from the state.
He could get caught. Even when he escaped, at that time, he didn’t have any means to know where Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was exactly. Now if you want to meet somebody, if you want to ask where are you, send me your WhatsApp location.
I’ll come there. There was nothing like that. He was going to one place and he was not even sure whether Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would be there or not.
But finally, he went to North India and then to Allahabad. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu met both the brothers. He was sometime in Varanasi and he met Rupa and Sanatana Goswami separately.
Because Rupa Goswami had left much earlier. And Sanatana Goswami had to flee from the jail. Now when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was staying in Varanasi, at that time, there were two primary associates of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu over there.
One was Tapana Mishra and the other was Chandrashekharacharya. So now what happened was that although both of them were great devotees, Varanasi was a place which was filled with Mayavadi sannyasis. Prabhupada said Varanasi is like the Vrindavan of the Mayavadis.
That is the place where Mayavadis delight in being there. And many of them were very strict, ritualistic. So they were already judging Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
Why is the sannyasi not coming and discussing Vedanta with us? He is just chanting and dancing like a sentimentalist. Now what had happened, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he kept his, you could say, identity somewhat ambiguous. That means, identity means what? He took initiation from a Mayavadi sampradaya.
So his sannyasa guru was previously, his guru Ishwarapuri was clearly a Vaishnava. Now Madhavendra Puri was also a great Vaishnava. But when, that was his diksha.
But when he took his sannyasa diksha, he took from a guru who is in the Mayavadi sampradaya. And the whole idea was at that time, Mayavadi sampradaya was what was respected very much. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took sannyasa from there.
And so that’s why when he came there, the Mayavadis thought that actually he is also one among us. The Advaitins thought that he is also one among us. He is one among us.
He got sannyasa from one of our schools. Why is he not coming and associating with us? And the Advaitins, they also accept the path of bhakti. But their idea is bhakti is a way to mukti.
They say, okay, people who are not that intelligent, for a little more sentiment, they practise bhakti. Those who are very intelligent, they come and they analyse Vedanta. So to think that bhakti is for less intelligent is less intelligent.
Bhakti is not a mundane emotion. It is a spiritual emotion that directly connects the soul with Krishna. But anyway, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was staying there, he was very conscientious of right behaviour.
So Tapana Mishra was from a Brahmin family. Chandrasekhar Acharya was not from a Brahmin family. So what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would do is, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to grace both the devotees.
But even when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the lord, he has also come in a particular social context. He has appeared in a particular culture. So you cannot change the existing culture drastically.
There is a certain amount of deference, respect that has been offered to the contemporary culture. So what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would do is, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would stay at the house of Chandrasekhar Acharya but he would go for prasad at the house of Tapana Mishra. And that’s how, so the idea is that you will stay wherever you want but Sanyasi should take food only from a Brahmana’s house.
That was the expectation of the Mayavadi Sanyasi. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went along with that. And then once when he was at the house of Tapana Mishra, he told Tapana Mishra, I think there is a Vaishnava outside, just go and see.
And when he went out and he saw, there is no Vaishnava out there. He came out, there is no Vaishnava. Is there anyone there? Oh yes, he said there is a, there is a, there is a fakir over there.
So bring him in. He was a little surprised. And he came in and as soon as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu saw him, he ran and hugged him.
Now Sanatana Goswami, he, because he had been a Muslim earlier, so he had a Muslim beard and he was dressed like a fakir. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went and hugged him. Tapana Mishra was astounded.
He says, what is going on? Who is this? Because a Sanyasi would normally try to maintain certain levels of purity but to speak of hugging someone like that. And then, seeing Tapana Mishra looking puzzled, now Sanatana Goswami was also conscious of this. He said, oh my dear Lord, I am very fond of you.
Please don’t touch me. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said that you are such an exalted pure devotee that by touching you, I will get purified. Now, Sanatana Goswami, he has come after a long, long troubled journey where he has risked his life.
And when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he comes in the presence of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Now he is outside the house and because he is dressed like a Muslim, he doesn’t directly want to go into somebody’s house also. He is waiting outside.
But Chaitanya Mahaprabhu takes, somebody is there. And then as soon as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, there is no hesitation. Now he meets Sanatana Goswami inside the house of Tapana Mishra.
So that general public will not see over there. But then, there in an unreserved way, he hugs him. He transcends all, you could say, cultural barriers over there.
So although he was so conscientious of the cultural barrier that he should eat only at a Brahmana’s house. But when his devotee came, he just ran and hugged him. There is a book by Niranjan Maharaj, Caring for Krishna’s Devotees.
It is about how we should have devotee care system, the council system. The cover of that book is this picture of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu hugging Sanatana Goswami. And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu tells him that, he says that Krishna has been very merciful.
It’s very interesting that whole that conversation goes. He says that, I met Rupa Goswami and Rupa Goswami told me that you had been jailed. He says, why that? I escaped and came here.
He says, Krishna is very merciful to you. That although you were in great opulence, you were in great opulence, but the Supersoul from within your heart has given you detachment from it all. Now it’s interesting the way he is appreciating.
First he says you are so pure that I get purified by hugging you. But the next moment he is saying that the Supersoul has given you detachment. So what does this mean? It means something very deep.
See there is, all of us we have certain attachments, we want to give them up. And we try to give them up. It’s important that we try.
But for us, with our intelligence we understand this is right and that is wrong. But our mind keeps proposing, do it, do it. We know I don’t want to get angry but I still feel anger.
So as long as the mind is proposing something and we are saying no to it. That is the stage when there is resistance. And we are trying to fight despite the resistance.
But eventually when the mind itself becomes purified, then there is no more temptation. That is the stage of transcendence. So Krishna’s mercy may come first, with at least our intelligence we understand this is not good, I should not do this.
But after that Krishna’s mercy comes and the mind itself becomes purified. Then the desire itself stops coming. That is a specially advanced stage.
So here what has happened? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is telling that by the grace of the Supersoul, you have become detached. And then Narada Goswami says, I do not know who Krishna is. It is only by your mercy that I have been able to come and surrender to you.
So here what we see, Narada Goswami is not saying you are Krishna. He is saying it is only by your mercy that I have been able to come and surrender. So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is glorifying Narada Goswami.
At the same time he is educating Narada Goswami. Don’t become proud of your renunciation. It is by the grace of Krishna it is happening.
And Narada Goswami is saying, actually I don’t know who is Krishna. He is expressing his humility. It is only because of you, O Lord, that I have been able to come and surrender to your lotus feet.
And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu tells him that I am going for prasad. You can come with me. You can bathe and come to me.
Then he changes his dress. He starts dressing like a Vaishnava, like a Vaishnava sannyasi. And then when he goes to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he says, you take prasadam, I will take later.
He takes the remnants of Lord Chaitanya. And then after that, wherever Chaitanya Mahaprabhu goes, Sadhana Goswami goes with him. But he stays behind him.
And he takes his remnants. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is always inviting him, come and be with me. But Sadhana Goswami says, no, I will be behind.
And eventually Sadhana Goswami has, when he is coming on the way, he had a relative, Srikanth. And that relative, he was very wealthy. And Sadhana Goswami had also been very wealthy.
So when he saw Sadhana Goswami, almost like in a bedraggled condition, he said, what happened? And Sadhana Goswami told him everything. He said, you come and stay with me. I will provide you everything.
I left. That, of course, I want to go to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Then his relative thought, let me give you something.
So he gave him a blanket. Now that was a very costly blanket. So actually, Srikanth was a wealthy person.
So his blanket was also wealthy. It’s cold. So Sadhana Goswami still had that blanket.
So then what happens, while Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is talking to Sadhana Goswami, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is repeatedly glancing at the blanket. And then he is repeatedly glancing at the blanket. And then Sadhana Goswami, he notices it.
See what has happened, Sadhana Goswami is in such ecstasy. He doesn’t even notice that, okay, I’m carrying this blanket. His thoughts are completely focused on meeting the Lord and being with the Lord.
And see what happens, when for all of us, according to our past, certain things are normal and certain things are not normal. So for somebody who is very poor, something which is very wealthy, which is very expensive, that is out of the place. Somebody is very wealthy, for that person, something very torn and tattered is out of place.
So because he had been wealthy, he had that blanket, and he was so much in ecstasy seeing the Lord, that he was not even conscious that, oh, I’m having this expensive blanket. But at that point, it was like a dress rasabhas. Dress rasabhas means, you know, he had worn the dress of a mendicant, and of a sanyasi and all that.
He had like this very expensive blanket which would be worn by kings or ministers like that. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is repeatedly glancing at him. And just by those repeated glances, Sadhana Goswami and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, they are so attuned to each other.
Just by repeated glances, he understands. Now, Sadhana Goswami doesn’t think, if he is repeatedly glancing at my blanket, maybe he wants this blanket for himself. He doesn’t think like that.
You know, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is completely renounced. So he understands that, this blanket, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu thinks this is not appropriate for me. So then, even without Chaitanya Mahaprabhu speaking one word, Sadhana Goswami understands.
Some people, as you say, akalmand ko ishara hi kaafi hota hai. But some people, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu just glanced at him, and just that gentle gesture itself is enough. So, but, you know, there are some people who, laato ke bhoot baato se nahi maanta hai.
Some people, you have to actually, not just signal, you have to speak, you know, stamp and beat a particular point into them. Even then they don’t understand. So, but, because both of them were so attuned, Sadhana Goswami was so eager to please Lord Chaitanya.
When he saw, he immediately said, okay. Then he went to a nearby ghat, and there was a mendicant over there, and he said, you know, he had an old tattered cloth with an oven. So he said, you take this blanket and give that to me.
And that man said, you know, why are you making fun of me like this? He said, why would you give your expensive blanket and take this? He said, no, no, I’m not making fun, I’m serious. Serious. He didn’t really believe it.
So he just gave him his blanket, took his blanket, and he came back. And when he came back in front of Sadhana Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu saw that, he became very pleased. So, here, what is happening is that, because Sadhana Goswami and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu shared such a sweet bond that, although the Lord did not speak anything, since Sadhana Goswami understood.
So, this is, I’m talking of third level, that’s intimacy. Intimacy where two people are very close to each other, even without speaking, just by glancing, can convey the import to each other. And then, Sadhana Goswami Chaitanya Mahaprabhu sent him to Jagannath Puri.
And when he went to Puri, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, I’ll be coming there soon. So, he sent him to Vrindavan, sorry. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu went to Puri, and then Sadhana Goswami also came to Puri afterwards.
So, first Rupa Goswami came, and then Sadhana Goswami came. Now, when Sadhana Goswami came to Puri, along the way, at those times, you know, travelling was just by foot, and then when you travel through the foot, there is no… It’s not that when we travel, we pack prasad and carry with us. I was once going from here, Australia, Perth to America, and what happened, I was supposed to take prasad, and there was some kind of miscommunication, and three groups of devotees brought prasad for me.
So, it happened that actually, I had my laptop bag, and the prasad bag was bigger than my laptop bag. So, there, initially, I didn’t want to say… All the three devotees had brought prasad, so I didn’t want to say no to them. So, I said, okay, I’ll carry it.
But then, when I was going there, they said that, okay, you can put one bag in check-in, and one bag you can take with you. So, actually, I said that this is my food bag. He says, are you going to Mount Everest? So, at that time, I had been reading this past of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
So, I said, I was thinking, how different! At that time, when they would travel, they had no idea where they would get their next meal. It is said in the 11th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam that a sannyasi should carry only one food bag, and that is their stomach. They should carry only what food they can carry in their stomach.
So, many of the things that are talked about in Shastra are very difficult to practise today. But when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was travelling along, at that time, Sanatana Goswami was travelling, he didn’t know where he would get food, where he would get water. So, now, you are travelling through the jungle, and you are thirsty, and you find some water.
Now, you cannot have, first, an aqua guard over there to filter the water and take the water. So, then, Sanatana Goswami drank some water, and that water was infected. So, his body started getting various swellings, and some pus started coming out of that.
And Sanatana Goswami started thinking, that, you know, my body is so dirty, it is swelling, he says, how can I go to Jagannath Puri? But then he thought, now I have come all the way from Vrindavan, let me go to Puri, and there, in Puri, I will have darshan of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and after that, I will give up this sinful body in front of Lord Jagannath. So, I will just throw myself in front of Jagannath’s cart, and I will end my life over there. So, when Sanatana Goswami was thinking like this, at that time, his heart was, actually, there is the body and there is the soul.
So, the soul is longing to be with Krishna, longing to serve Krishna, beyond the constraints of the body. But, at that time, he was in that body, and that body was limiting him in various ways. So, there is, when people become frustrated, when they want to commit suicide, it is not because they are so spiritually advanced, it’s rather, the body is obstructing them in their material enjoyment.
And if there is no way I can enjoy, so what is the use of my life? But for him, his consciousness was different. He says, I can’t serve Krishna with this body, so why continue to maintain this body? In fact, he was thinking, if I go and associate with devotees, they will have to tolerate this body. Why should I tolerate this body? Why should they have to tolerate this deceased body? So, let me give up.
There was one of our sannyasis, he got Alzheimer’s, no, he got Parkinson’s, and then he decided to do prayavrata. Prayavrata is the vow of fasting to death. So, when many other senior devotees went and told him, there is no need to do this, you can take it.
He was staying in Vrindavan. And his reply was that, he said that this body is meant to serve Krishna. Now, if this body can’t serve Krishna, why should I serve this body by maintaining it? So, it’s not that he was frustrated with Parkinson’s.
He said, why should I maintain this body if this body can’t be used to serve Krishna? So, sometimes the external action might seem in a particular way, but the consciousness can be very different. So, he was not like a mundane frustration, it was a transcendental frustration. But anyway, then he went there.
So, he went and met Haridas Thakur, and he was feeling so bad because he was having this disease in the body. Then Haridas Thakur was delighted to see him. And a Rath Yatra was going to come.
And Sanatana Goswami was thinking, I’ll have darshan of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and then I will end my life in front of Jagannath’s car. I’ll end my life in the presence of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came to Suddha Bakul, where Sanatana Goswami was with Haridas Thakur.
And then as soon as Sanatana Goswami, he came forward to embrace him. He said, oh my dear Lord, please don’t embrace me, my body is sick. And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu embraced him.
And Sanatana Goswami felt so bad because his body was diseased. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu hugged him very tightly. Sanatana Goswami, I’ll get purified by hugging you, by touching you.
Again he said the same thing. And then Sanatana Goswami felt extremely bad because of that. He felt that the Lord has to touch his body.
He said, no, I’m going to end my body. His resolve became stronger after that. But the next day, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu met him.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said to him, oh Sanatana, when you surrendered to me, your body also became my property. Since I have plans to do great things with your body, and what you have surrendered to Krishna, how can you destroy Krishna’s property? So when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu spoke this, Sanatana Goswami, first of all, was taken aback. Of course, at one level he knew Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the Lord, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supersoul, he knows.
But when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu directly spoke that, he was taken aback. And then he said that this body is Krishna’s property. What right do we have to destroy Krishna’s property? And then Chaitanya Mahaprabhu told him that if by dying before Jagannath, love for Krishna could be attained, then I would have died hundreds of times for Jagannath.
He said that, oh Sanatana Goswami, I have great plans for you through this body. And then he ran towards him and he hugged him tightly. And this time when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu hugged Sanatana Goswami, what happened? Just miraculously, the whole disease disappeared.
The whole disease just disappeared, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s grace, Sanatana Goswami internally and externally became permeated with Krishna Shakti. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu blessed Sanatana Goswami. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said that this is actually Krishna’s pastime.
So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said this is Krishna’s pastime that you drank that water, you became sick, so that I as a sanyasi would not discriminate based on the body. That I could see your soul and I could appreciate a soul beyond the body. But now, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not say I blessed you, Krishna has healed you.
So here, what we see is, in this whole pastime, Sanatana Goswami and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, their hearts are so intimately tied to each other. What is going on in Sanatana Goswami’s heart, it is not just that Krishna is a super soul, he knows everything. But Krishna as a super soul knows everything, but Krishna as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is also responding personally, specifically to every single, to the nuance of emotions that he is going through.
So when this kind of understanding is there, just by these actions, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu understands Sanatana Goswami and accepts Sanatana Goswami and heals Sanatana Goswami through all of this, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is entering deeper and deeper into Sanatana Goswami’s heart. And thus, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu conquers Sanatana Goswami’s heart. And thereafter, Sanatana Goswami became one of the foremost followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
So the idea, this whole pastime, is that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was very conscientiously sensitive to both appreciate Sanatana Goswami as well as to educate Sanatana Goswami. In every relationship, both these are required. To appreciate the other person’s emotions, at the same time to educate the other person.
So Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appreciates his devotional sentiment. He did not say, you are doing a sinful activity, you are thinking of committing suicide. He said that you want to attain love for Krishna.
But love for Krishna will be attained by serving Krishna. Not by just giving up one’s life. And you think this body is sinful? He said, I have great plans for this body.
So from both perspectives, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu responds, he reveals that he fully understands what Sanatana Goswami is going through. He appreciates Sanatana Goswami’s condition, but he also educates him to a higher level of consciousness. So that is the consciousness of Sanatana Goswami.
Now here, to move on to this point that, So we are talking about non-judgmentality. When Sanatana Goswami, he had this plan, he wanted to commit suicide. But when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu educated him, he accepted it.
The proving that we are right is not as important as probing if we are wrong. Because ultimately we want to learn how to understand each other better, how to grow better. So many times our focus is, I want to prove that I am right.
So yes, we might prove that we are right, but that will not help us grow. But if, okay, I am coming from a particular perspective, Sanatana Goswami came from a perspective, this body is useless and if the soul dies in front, if the soul leaves the body in front of Jagannath, in front of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, love for Krishna will be there. But Chaitanya Mahaprabhu told him, this body is not useless, I have great plans for this body.
And the soul cannot attain love for Krishna simply by dying in front of the Lord. You have to serve the Lord. So Sanatana Goswami immediately accepted it.
And he became an empowered soul, taking Lord Chaitanya’s mission far and wide into future generations. So this is about non-judgmentality. And by non-judgmentality, we lower the guard, by which we can help each other understand the right situation, help each other to open our hearts.
Any questions or comments till now? So, have any of you seen this video of the gorilla experiment? Okay. So that is, that is going to be related to my next point. So I will just send you a link.
You can, you are having YouTube link? So basically, the point of this, the whole point which we are talking about till now is, that we have to see things in the, not impose our frame of reference. Shri Krishna, I sent to you. You got it? Yeah.
We can’t talk to that level, actually, as a, you know, a very minor soul. What I’m trying to understand is, whether in that case, whether our karma plays the role for someone to judge us, or it’s just like a mercy and then we have to improve, we have to come to that judgemental situation. So what works? The karma works or what plays the role? Krishna’s mercy or the karma? Sometimes we want to say that, you know, because we have got big reactions and we are suffering this, and someone is judging on us.
This is what we are going to become. I know that Krishna doesn’t interfere with the karma. We have to go the road.
But we are going, which we are not there. We are not at that stage. So how can you draw a line between those two situations or those two circumstances? So if we are being judged, you know, is it because of our own karma that is happening or does Krishna intervene or how can we come to the level of pure devotion by which Krishna will intervene? That’s your question? Yeah.
In that case, you said it was Krishna’s mercy. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said it was Krishna’s mercy. That’s why you got that message.
Yes. So in our situation, it’s very completely different. Yeah, that’s true.
OK. So now here, the principle I was talking about primarily was that there is a… Don’t start right now, please. OK.
No, don’t keep that screen also. It will distract from the answer. We’ll come to that in a few minutes.
So again, two things are there. See, first is that when we are facing a particular situation, we have to find the most effective way ahead. If thinking about karma or taking the past life’s karma analysis into consideration helps us to move forward, then that is good.
If that doesn’t, then we don’t have to necessarily take that into consideration. Say, as I said, when Abhimanyu was killed, Arjuna did not consider, was it Abhimanyu’s past karma because of which he was killed? He saw from that situation, Jaidrath had very malevolently intercepted and prevented the Pandavas from going to help him. So he considered Jaidrath responsible for that action and he took action over there.
So we have to find the most constructive way to move forward. If we are facing a particular relationship or a particular situation where we are being judged, now is it because of a past karma, is it because of… why? We have to see what is the best way to move ahead. It’s like, suppose somebody, say, on a cold night, eats 10 ice creams.
And the next morning, throat… it’s horrible, they can’t even speak. Now if their throat is in big trouble, is that because of past karma? Yeah, past night’s karma, isn’t it? So now if you want to fix it, you don’t have to go to past karma. So it’s only when… like we talk about multiple frames of reference.
So if something can be settled within the immediate frame of reference, there is no need to go to a bigger frame of reference. But with the immediate frame of reference, it doesn’t make sense. Say, I did not eat anything wrong and still suddenly I got this terrible cough, terrible sore throat or whatever.
Why? Well, if I can’t find any immediate cause, then I can go back to some remote cause. So if we find that we are being repeatedly judged and we are being repeatedly misunderstood, then we have to see, is it that this person is judgemental repeatedly? And then if that is the case, then it’s not just with us, but that person may be judgemental with others also. I was at a temple and I was talking with some devotees and they were all having trouble with one leader over there.
Since he was very rude with us, very arrogant, very condescending, very domineering. So when I told that to the devotees, he said, actually, if people would do what I was telling them to do, I wouldn’t have to yell at them. So they should just start doing what I’m telling them, then I won’t yell at them.
So what happened was, he was not ready to take responsibility at all. That he was doing something, even if devotees listen to us or not, yelling at them may not be the right thing to do. So it was just his nature.
So we might be just unfortunate at that time that we are serving in that particular situation. So whether it’s our past karma or not, I think that analysis, only if it is helpful, we can take it forward. So yes, if we are in a particular situation, we have to work with a particular person.
And there are some difficulties in that. And there is nothing that we have done immediately to provoke that person, but still they are like that. Then we say, OK, maybe it’s the past karma.
So the purpose of talking about past karma, earlier I talked about passive, aggressive and assertive. Passive means, oh, it’s all my past karma, let that person keep doing whatever they are doing. And I’ll keep getting walked over.
That’s not the attitude. The only purpose of talking about past karma is that we don’t become aggressive and vindictive. And you did this to me, so I’ll do that to you.
So that can lead to horrible things. Sometimes there are caste wars or dynastic wars that happen. You know, in Dynasty A, somebody kills one person in Dynasty B. And in Dynasty B, they kill five people in this Dynasty A. And then they kill 50 people in the Dynasty A. And then they kill 500 people in the Dynasty B. And then they blow up the whole kingdom.
It just becomes worse. So the idea is, when you talk about past karma, don’t become aggressive and vindictive. But we have to be assertive.
Assertive means, okay, in this situation, the way this person is acting, it’s troubling me very much. And I want to move forward. I want to maintain my basic emotional health, my basic spiritual health.
And I want to move on in my life. How can I move on? So whatever actions we need to take for that, we should take. So the main purpose of karma we are talking about is to not get into a zone where we try to hit back at other person and lead them to do further bad karma.
But we don’t want to get to further bad karma, but we have to do our dharma. If suppose, say, we are sitting and chanting in the temple, say, and we are sitting next to somebody who is like some people, they have a natural loudspeaker in their throat itself. So that person is chanting so loudly that we are sitting to chant, but we only hear their japa.
We don’t hear our japa at all. So now, should we think at that time, oh, it’s by my past karma that I’m sitting next to this person? No. Now, OK, why that person came and sat next to you, or why we sat over there and that person came, we don’t know.
But now we don’t have to go and yell at that person, why are you chanting so loudly? But we have to do our dharma. Our dharma is that I need to chant. I need to hear my chanting.
So then either I walk up and go somewhere else, or I get some earplugs, or I gently tell that other person that, can you chant a little softly, or whatever. We have to, we have to do our dharma. So being passive would mean, oh, OK, this person is chanting so loudly, I can’t hear my japa.
OK, I won’t hear my japa. I’ll let my mind wander everywhere, and say, OK, it’s because of past karma, it happened. I remember once what happened, it was so funny.
This one devotee was chanting very loudly. And then this other devotee was, what happens sometimes some devotees, they chant loudly, and they’re not even aware they’re chanting loudly. So his eyes closed, he’s chanting, and this other devotee was signalling to him, slow down, slow down, he’s not paying attention.
So the second devotee also started chanting very loudly. So it was like the chanting became a shouting match. So now, that is useless, isn’t it? That’s not the point.
So we have to do our dharma. And if sometimes a particular situation comes in a way that stops us from doing our dharma, then we have to work to change that situation. But if somebody is troubling us, then we have to create some space for ourselves so that we can do our dharma.
But we shouldn’t just get back against that person and hit back at that person and forget our dharma. So both ways, because of that person, we stop doing our dharma and say, I can’t, I’m helpless, I can’t do anything. Or because that person has done something, I get busy hitting back at that person.
And again, then also I forget my dharma. So the whole point of talking about past life karma is to stay fixed in our dharma. So in Arjuna’s case, anyway he was fighting against the Kauravas and he had to bring down the Kauravas.
So when one particular Kaurava commander very brutally was responsible for his son’s death, then Arjuna intensified his dharma by getting back at Jayadruth on that day. So we have to be more dharma centred than karma centred. Dharma centred is what is my dharma in the situation? And how can I best do my dharma? So if you become too karma centred, it can become, we might become too passive.
Actually, where do you stop the karma centredness? That, say, if a small baby is crying, should the mother think that the baby is crying because of past karma? Let the baby cry. That’s ridiculous, isn’t it? The baby is crying. Why the baby is crying, I don’t know, but what’s my dharma right now? My dharma is to comfort the baby.
So just the whole idea, sometimes we might offer all the comfort, we might give the medicine, still the baby cries. Then we understand maybe there’s something which is past karma because of some diseases there, something is wrong, we’re not able to find out. We might accept it for the time being while something is found and cured.
So we have to be dharma centred, not karma centred. So does it address your question? So can you play this now? For those of you, if any of you have seen this video, please don’t tell anyone else what the video is about. Play it, play it.
Not playing? Let’s try without full screen. The sound is coming or no? Even the sound is not there. So this is the count how many times the players wearing white pass the ball.
Wait a minute. How many of you spotted the gorilla? Go ahead. Look at it carefully.
So that’s okay. So did you notice the second time, did you notice the curtain changing in the background? No. No? I only saw the gorilla.
Okay. Yeah. The curtain changed to golden almost.
So and also one of the players just walked out of there. So basically what happens that when we are looking for one thing, our vision focusses on one thing and then some other big thing may have come up. But we just don’t notice it.
Now, even a gorilla or a person dressed like a gorilla coming in is a big event. But when we are focused on seeing one thing and then we could say this is concentration. It is good.
Yes, at one level to focus on one thing is good. But to miss out on important other details is not good. It’s like if you are driving, we have to focus on what is happening right in front of us.
But at the same time, if some other car is suddenly zooming in from the other side or way ahead, there is a traffic jam that is happening. We have to also be aware of the bigger picture that we can slow down the car. So similarly, for many of us, the idea is that when we have a particular opinion about a particular person, it’s like we are looking only at that perspective.
And even the person has a hundred other good things, but still we just don’t notice that. Let’s focus on that one thing alone. So, experiments like these basically what they remind us is that there might be many big things which we are missing out because of our preconceptions.
So, for us to go out of our preconceptions, we need to become a little more open minded. Can you just go ahead? Can you go ahead one more? I will come back to this later. This is the old version.
Did you not download the slides? Can you go ahead? No, it’s the old one. So, here what I was saying is, let’s go back, no need for this right now. So, humility, one functional definition of humility is, humility means to understand the complexity of reality.
Humility means to understand the complexity of reality. That is, in this particular gorilla experiment, we record only, ok, how many times did the white people pass the ball. That’s all we are looking at.
But there are so many other things happening over there. So, when people also, we are interacting with people, people are not just unidimensional creatures. Oh, you are irresponsible, you are forgetful, you are this, you are that.
That might be one feature of people, but there are many other features of them also. So, the complexity of reality means people are also very complex. And rather than reducing them to one particular perspective, you are like this, we try to expand our perspective.
So, one aspect of non-judgmentality or one very useful foundation for non-judgmentality is humility. In humility, in terms of relationship, does not just mean folding hands or bowing down, that is good. But humility means the willingness to try to understand other person’s perspective.
That is humility in terms of conversation. It’s one of the most difficult things to do, especially when we are upset with someone, we are angry with someone, is to let the other person speak without interrupting. It’s like there are psychologists found that in general, most people do not let the other people speak for more than 17 to 25 words.
You speak and interrupt, speak and interrupt, speak and interrupt. And even if we let them speak, what happens? We hear one sentence and then we are planning how to refute that sentence. And everything else that is spoken, it is not even heard also.
Leave it unregistered. So, humility means, okay, I do not just zero in on the things that confirm my understanding, but adhere to understand. Reality is much more complex.
People are much more complex than what I think. So, it said that even when you give a class, at best, people remember only 20% of what the speaker spoke. And God knows which 20% it will be.
So, the same way, actually, we just choose some things from what people speak and we highlight them. So, we need to develop this humility that actually, let me understand people as they are. Then I can move forward.
So, I talked today about judgmentality and I will quickly summarise what I spoke. And then we can have some question answers. I spoke broadly on the theme of nonjudgmentality in terms of two main things.
One is that nonjudgmental means that we hear to understand the other person. Not just to confirm our understanding. And that I elaborate, talk about Sanatana Goswami’s pastime.
And I talked about how broadly speaking, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu understood Sanatana Goswami so intimately. And he entered into his heart through loving exchanges. And eventually, Sanatana Goswami wanted to end his life.
At that time, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appreciated his condition but also educated him. So, he appreciated his condition means the sickness which you had was because Lord Krishna wanted to test me. And if you think this body you want to give it up, but I have big plans for the body.
If you think you want to attain love for Krishna, you cannot attain it just by dying. It is you have to live for Krishna, serve Krishna. So, appreciate the other person and then educate the other person.
That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did. And then you talk about his gorilla experiment and then humility means to understand the complexity of reality. If you understand it this way, then we can move forward progressively in having deeper connections here.
So, does anyone have any questions or otherwise we can go to the slide of questions. Yes ma’am. You can also open the slide.
It is good that I am here in front of you. Sometimes you might make us feel a little bit defensive because that is our first reaction when you speak in person. So, you have this vision.
How can we try to embody that quality that Krishna has for being compassionate with someone who is displaying anger? So, how can we become big enough to say accommodate other people’s anger? When say they are hurt, it is often because they are hurt that is why they are expressing their anger. But we take it personally and become defensive. At one level, it is just natural when somebody is angry, we feel threatened.
So, the scientists have done some studies about how much our reflexes are under our control. So, there was an experiment where they had a cage with a snake inside it, completely a glass cage, unbreakable. And there was this experimenter who would stand right near the cage.
So, the snake would come and, the snake was venomous and snake would hit at the glass cage from inside. Now this person knows consciously that the snake cannot touch me. But as soon as the snake would come near, the eyes would close.
It tried laboriously to ensure that the eyes wouldn’t close. But it just can’t do it. No matter how much they tried, because it is like an instinct within us.
It is a defensive instinct. The snake is coming, the eyes will close. So, for us, we are also concerned about our own survival.
What applies at the physical level also applies at the emotional level. So, when we feel threatened, our first response would be that we want to defend ourselves. And that’s why we have to consider our Adhikar also.
If somebody is going through some difficulty, whether we have the maturity, have the spiritual strength, or even emotional resilience to help them. We want to help, but we have to check whether we have that kind of resilience ourselves. Say somebody is drowning and we ourselves don’t know swimming very well.
If we jump in, the only thing that will happen will be two corpses instead of one. Isn’t it? So, at that time, maybe the best thing we can do is just run and call someone else who can dive in and save them. So, we have to check first of all whether we have that capacity.
If somebody’s anger makes us very insecure and defensive or makes us counterattack, then maybe we are not the best person to help them process their anger. And that’s the first thing if you have to consider Adhikar. Secondly, if we do feel that yes, we can help them.
See, Krishna is big enough to handle others. Krishna doesn’t become insecure, but we all become insecure at times. But if we do feel that we can have that maturity, then the important thing is to always shift things back to them.
It’s not in the sense of blaming them, but understand that it’s not about us. It’s about that person. So, basically in everybody’s head, a movie is going on.
And that movie, they are the star performer. And everybody else is like an extra. This is not to minimise or demean any important relationships.
We can also be very committed in our close relationship. But still, the way we function is that we see things first and foremost from our perspective. So, sometimes what happens is this is the physical reality.
This is the mind. This is the body. This is the mind.
This is the soul. So, for the soul, the mind and the mental reality is closer than the physical reality. So, we don’t experience the physical world as much as we experience the mental world.
Now, of course, the physical and the mental are connected. But sometimes the connection becomes tenuous between the two. It becomes like a weak connection.
Say, like sometimes now this Cricket World Cup is coming up. So, sometimes there is cricket mania that comes up. And especially in India, you see on the streets, young men walking on the road and suddenly they start doing bowling action.
Or they start batting. There is no ball. There is no bat.
So, now what has happened? In their mind, they are the next Sachin Tendulkar or Virat Kohli or whatever. And in their mind, a movie is going on and they are star cricketer in that. So, and that movie is going on so much that actually a physical transformation is happening at that point.
So, in that case, there is no cricket field anywhere outside. But they are not only so caught in the mind that they are responding to the mind. But that response to the mind is also manifesting at the physical level.
So, similarly for us, for some people, when they are angry, they get angry. They get so caught inside their head in the movie that is going on there that they respond at a physical level also. They act at a physical level.
But what is happening at the physical level, they may not even be aware of that. They are just so caught in their own head. They may be angry, but their anger is not directed towards us primarily, although we may be targeted at that time by it.
So, at that time, the best thing to do is to help them get out of their head. Now, how do we help them to get out of their head? That will depend on situation to situation, person to person. But it’s like the chain of thoughts is going on inside the head.
You have to get them out. Sometimes in mental asylum, when people go mad, they give them sedatives. Because why sedatives? You put them to sleep.
The movie that is going on in their head, you stop it. That is, of course, extreme. We don’t want to do that, certainly.
But the point is that when a person’s consciousness is caught in the level of the mind, then at the mind, they are just seeing things and responding to them. Incidentally, something is happening at the body level. So, we have to get them out of the mind to the body.
So, it could be by talking about something else, which is important for them. So, we see that in a different sense. But Chaitanya Mahaprabhu once, when he was in Jagannath Puri, he was a nyasi.
And he heard somebody singing Geet Govinda. And Geet Govinda was a beautiful song glorifying Krishna’s past and his Adhan. He was so delighted to hear that Geet Govinda being sung, that he started running towards that person to embrace that person.
Oh, you are singing so sweetly. You are reminding me of Krishna. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s servant was running with him.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was so absorbed at a transcendental level, that he was just remembering Krishna. And he was not even remembering that, actually I am a sanyasi right now. He was thinking, oh, this devotee is glorifying Krishna so nicely.
But it was actually a female devotee. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was running straight to embrace. And at that time, Geet Govinda just loudly called out to him.
Oh my lord, she is a woman. And then, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, what? Oh, you saved my life. A sanyasi, if I had agadar, I would have had to give up my body.
So, what happened? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, of course, was transcendent. But the principle of the saint is caught so much at a spiritual level, but that sudden jolt brought him out. So, we have to somehow get their consciousness out of the mind to the physical level.
So, how it can be done, that will depend on person to person. And once they get out of that train of thoughts, get out of that mental movie, hey, what is this? I don’t want to do this. And then they realise it.
So, if that person has also developed some spiritual habits or developed some habits by which you can get out of the head. Say for example, just deep breathe. Breathe in, breathe out.
Deep breathe. So, now at that time, whether that person will agree to deep breathe or not, we don’t know. But the point is that you have to find out what works.
So, that person has developed that habit of breathing deep when they get angry. Then at that time, they just need a reminder. Yes, just breathe deep.
Yes, breathe deep. So, if it’s like a teamwork, that they already have planned that in advance. Yes, I too tend to go overboard at times.
And that happens, this is what I need to do. Then they just need a reminder. Then it’s more easily possible.
So, we have to see what will work with particular stream. But the whole idea is generally you have to get them out of the head at that time. Thank you.
Let’s go to some other questions. You have questions? Sir, two questions. The first one is, what to do if one frame of reference is negative to other frame of reference and both are correct to each other? Yes.
So, if two frames of reference are both correct, but they are very different. Yes, then that is a recipe for a very exciting relationship. Now, some people may feel, I have too much excitement in this relationship.
See, what happens in relationships, for relationships to stay dynamic, there has to be a blend of predictability and unpredictability. There has to be a blend of predictability and unpredictability. We have to be able to predict to some extent.
If I do this, this person is going to think like this, this person is going to act like this, this person is going to feel like this. So, some amount of predictability has to be there. But if there is complete predictability, then it becomes almost like interacting with a computer programme.
I speak this, this person is going to speak this. If I do this, this person is going to do this. If I am doing this, this person is going to do this.
So, what happens then? Then it becomes very monotonous because there is almost nothing unexpected in that relationship. So, when two people’s frame of reference are very different, that means the unpredictability in that relationship is going to be very high. And because we just, this comes as a different frame of reference that it just becomes difficult to compute.
Why are you thinking like this? So, for us to understand, it can become, it requires time to understand what the other person is coming from. So, if we have to work together, if somehow that relationship is there and we have to work together, then we have to understand that this relationship will require me to be much more prepared for the unexpected. So, I will do this and something else might happen.
So, it is like, with some people we know, we more or less can predict what is going to do. Say sometimes we are walking on solid ground and sometimes we are walking through landmines. You put one step and an explosion occurs over there.
Now, nobody would want to normally walk through a landmine, but sometimes some people have to walk through landmines. Maybe if you have to go through a particular area, if you have to go to an enemy territory and conquer that territory, if it is booby trapped, you have to go through that landmines. So, then if we are more prepared, we can deal with it more better.
So, it is just that there will be much more unpredictability and you can see it as exciting or you can see it as insecurity inducing. So, if we have to do it, then it is better to see it as exciting and then we can learn a lot. Why do you think like this? What makes you think like this? Not in a judgemental way, but in an objective way.
Then if both people at least understand that their frames of reference are very different, then they can appreciate that the other person is going to have a different opinion and then they decide with respect to these areas, we will do it your way. With respect to this area, I will do it my way. So, then there has to be at least some framework of how to resolve disagreements.
See, in the Kurukshetra war, the warriors are fighting against each other, but still there was an agreed code of conduct that if the sun sets, you will not fight. You are going to fight, but during the daytime only. Of course, after Bhishma fell and Drona came, then Drona was much more manipulable by Duryodhana.
So, then they were fighting at night also sometimes. But overall, although there was a disagreement, there was some broad structure of agreement within which the war was taking place. So, if there is no code of agreement at all, then it just cannot function.
It’s like say, you are playing a cricket match and the batsman hits a ball and the ball goes high up and the wicket-keeper is coming in to catch. And just before the ball comes in, the batsman comes and smacks the wicket-keeper on the head. Now then, you can’t have a cricket match.
After the ball has been hit, the batsman cannot come and interfere with the catch. That’s the rule. So, there have to be some rules, otherwise nothing can function.
And in a sense, life is not as unpredictable as we think. Say right now, all of you are 100% confident that the person next to you is not going to turn and slap you. So, we do have a certain basic level of understanding, certain level of expectation and we cooperate with that.
So, sometimes when people come from very radically different frame of references, then there has to be at least some understanding that if things go wrong, we will have some channel of communication, we will try to communicate and then we will resolve. So, it makes for very exciting and very educating relationships. But sometimes it can become too much for some people.
So, it becomes too much, then they may have to keep a little bit of a distance. But we can learn a lot from those relationships in which people come from very different perspectives from ours. Yeah.
I saw that. We saw that. I read this.
Yeah. I think we have to answer this question, isn’t it, by the way? I saw Krishna’s mercy. We can’t see everything as Krishna’s mercy, but we can see Krishna’s mercy in everything.
See some way in which we can deal with the situation as Krishna’s mercy. Yeah. But at the same time, we feel the pain of the bad situation.
Same. Last one. If it is okay to feel the pain, then should… Yeah, I think it is the same question.
Was anything remaining in that question? Did I answer that more or less? I think the second part. The pain one? Okay. So, if we are in pain and we try to see the Krishna’s mercy, but still the pain remains, what do we do at that time? See, we may have to live with pain, but we don’t have to live in pain.
Live with pain means the pain is a part of our life, but we are not just thinking only about it and feeling bad about it or feeling sorry for ourselves. Let us say this is a part of my life and this is a painful part of my life. But there are many other things in my life.
So, we look at the other things that are good in our life and try to cultivate some positive emotions, some gratitude toward that. And then we move on from there. So, I have a whole seminar on this on cultivating gratitude.
I will just talk of three points. I use the word, the acronym ACE. ACE means what? When some bad thing has happened, look for the good around the bad.
Okay, this terrible thing has happened in my life. I got this sickness. I lost my job.
This relationship is broken down. Whatever bad thing has happened. So, our mind is like iron filing that goes to the magnet.
It keeps obsessing over that. Why did this bad thing happen? Why did this bad thing happen? But look for the good around the bad. Does this bad thing happen to me? But this is good in my life.
This is good in my life. Okay, I got this terrible sickness. But overall I have a healthy body.
I have health insurance. I have a supportive community. I have friends, whatever.
Look for the good around the bad. Then C is look for the good that helps us to combat the bad. There may be 10 good things in my life.
But 2-3 things which are good that can help me to combat this particular bad thing. Okay, I lost my job. Okay, but still I have health.
I have experience. I have contacts. And okay, with my contacts let me try to work and get some job.
This contacts is something which I can combat this. So, what happens is we don’t feel helpless. See, it’s one thing to be in pain.
It’s another thing to feel helpless while being in pain. So, when we see there are good things in my life. And there are good things with which I can combat these bad things.
So, then that helps us feel a little more secure, little more equipped. And then E is emerge. That we look for the good that may emerge from the bad.
This is bad right now. But many times in future some good may come out of it. So, when we look for Krishna’s mercy, it is not that the pain will automatically disappear.
But by connecting with Krishna, by praying to Krishna, it’s like our consciousness will expand. So, that the pain will be a component in our consciousness. Pain won’t be the container of our consciousness.
It will be one part, not the whole. So, why are these tips so difficult to understand? Yeah. So, these tips are difficult to apply.
Yes, that’s why when we have to apply, it’s always helpful to do things. To reduce things in terms of specifics and in terms of time. And decide that one principle I will apply for say one week or one month.
If we try to apply ten things, we will end up applying nothing. I have to do this also, I have to do this also, I have to do this also. And nothing works out.
Just one principle, one practise which inspires us very much. Just decide for a finite, take that one thing up and apply it for a finite time. One week, one month, fortnight, two months, whatever.
Just do like that. And when we do like that, what will happen? We will feel some benefit by it. And then after one week or one month, after that finite time duration, then evaluate.
How much is this benefit? Do I want to continue this? Or in that time you might hear some other class, some other point. That will inspire to apply that. See, our mind also needs some change.
The same rule and discipline if you have to apply in an insistent way constantly, it’s not easy. So, we could also change. Maybe you can decide, in the last one year I have learnt these six points.
I want to apply them. So, one point I will apply for two months. So, one month I am going to focus on my relationships.
One month I am going to focus on my chanting. One month I will focus on my reading Bhagavatam or whatever. Like that you can decide what you want to improve.
And just take one thing and then work on improving that. So, that way if we do, we will be able to do things tangibly. And if we have, if we do some substantial amount of times like one month, two months, then our thinking will also develop.
Oh, this is what I could have done. This is what I should not have done. And we will also become more self-observant by that.
When you become self-observant, then even when we change over to something else, some learning will carry over and the other principle also will apply a little bit. Not with that focus, but at least a little bit. And that is how we can grow.
Thank you. Do you have a question? Yes. Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Yes.
Why is this Niranjan Puri’s question? Yesterday I had asked the same question. Is it Niranjan’s question? No, no. If you do not mind, who had asked this question, they can raise their hand.
Okay, fine. So, is every reaction in this life, the karmic reaction of either past life or this life itself? It is an unpredictable combination of both. So, it is an unpredictable combination of both means that life is always a state of dynamic flux.
I will give you an example. Say three people are going for a walk and some, there is some water which has slipped, water has spilled over the road and neither of them notice it and all of them slip on the water. Now, the first person they slip, but as they are slipping, now there is some branch overhead or some, they catch it and they steady themselves.
The second person slips and falls and behind there is a puddle and they just fall into that puddle and their whole cloth gets soiled. Now, nothing is hurt except their pride, big time. The third person falls and there is a sharp rock over there.
That rock hits him on the head and the person gets a brain haemorrhage. Now, you can say that all three, there was a mistake. They were not attentive, they were not looking where they were walking, but the three people got a reaction that was different.
So, why the difference? So, this is where when we get, we all will see the situation when we make a small mistake and we get into huge trouble. How many of you have this experience? Small mistake, big trouble. You know, I have had this experience sometimes, I am giving a class and I speak one point in passing and somebody in the audience takes on that point, how can you make this point? That was not the point of my class, but how can you make this point? And then 15 minutes they are just going on that point only.
And I have spoken that, I have not even spent 15 seconds on that point, but they just go on with it. So, sometimes what happens? Small thing can lead to a big issue. Now, often we very naturally remember that, but if you are honest, you can also think that sometimes you make a big mistake and then you do not get into any trouble out of it or very little trouble.
There is one devotee who told me that he had decided that he wanted to go for Mangal Aarti and he was very tired previous night. So, he slept. Somehow he woke up and said I am going to go to Mangal Aarti.
And he woke up somehow, took a fresh Muruga bath and he got into the car and started going. And he got into the car and he went to sleep in the car. And then somehow from his home, because it is early morning, it is a clear traffic and he came right to the temple.
And then he woke up and he saw he is near the temple. So, throughout he was sleeping, but he got there safely. So, in a sense you could say it is Krishna’s mercy.
So, I told him do not expect Krishna’s mercy next time like this. So, we have to sometimes we might make a serious mistake, but no result may come also. So, basically we often think that the law of karma means action A leads to reaction B. But it is not that simple.
It is action A along with and some combination of past karma combined together leads to reaction B. So, reaction B is not a simple cause of a connection. There is a cause of a connection, but it is not always a simple cause of a connection. Now, if it is a simple cause of a connection, we accept it.
But if it is not a simple cause of a connection, we understand that there is sometimes some past karma also. Say it is like I think I gave this example last time also that normally if some people normally if we eat too much we gain weight. But in some people they are genetically predisposed towards becoming obese or some people may have some thyroid issue or whatever.
So, even a little imbalance in their diet and their body balloons out. And there are some people who treat their tongue like a conveyor belt and nothing happens to them. They stay slim and fit.
So, now what is happening over here? That means some people by their past karma were meant to have a sickly body and a small imbalance in the diet is a big problem for them. On the other hand, somebody by past karma is meant to have a healthy body. So, even if there is a big imbalance in the diet, nothing happens to them.
So, it is a whatever situation comes in our life, it is a result of an unpredictable combination of present karma and past karma. So, we do not know what the past karma is. So, we try to look at the present karma and address it or correct it as much as we can.
But sometimes we cannot, then we accept it as destiny and move on with life, ok. Thank you. So, can we stop here? So, tomorrow we will continue with, we have two sessions.
I will talk about sensitivity and then I will talk about intimacy tomorrow. So, if you have any further questions, you can note them down here in slido and we will take them probably in the second session tomorrow. Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna.