How to have loving exchanges 4 – Cultivating intimacy

[Retreat at Sydney, Australia]

Video:

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
I will ask Radhika to give special instructions in terms of taking your roots and taking your So now we go ahead.
We come to our last session. So a quick recap of what we discussed in the morning session. The topic was what? Sensitivity.
Yeah. So I talked about three ways of speaking. What were they? Descriptive.
You should do this normative. This is right and descriptive. This is what I do and this is why I do it.
And then I talked about how by being sensitive, the idea is sensitivity is a balance between two things. What is that? Being sensible and being sentimental. So there are there are facts and there are feelings.
So if you are only sensible, you look only at the facts. If you are only sentimental, you look only at the feelings and not look at the facts. But we are aware of other people’s feelings and we are also aware of the facts.
That is being sensible. And then that is being sensitive. Then for being sensitive, I talked about some ways which we could do it, that focus on the commonalities, begin with the commonality rather than the difference, even if we have differences.
And then we talked about how we can in general look at the good in others, at least begin by looking at good in others. Even if we have rather than making negative resolutions, I will not become angry. We can make a positive resolution.
I will respect everyone’s right to be to be spoken to politely. And then we did this exercise. So the last part I am going to talk about is intimacy.
So can you move ahead? Yeah. So intimacy is not about dissolving our individuality. Often when we talk about being sensitive, being empathic, one question is, what about me? If I am so attuned to other people’s feelings, what about my own feelings? What about my, if I am very sensitive to the other person, but other person is not sensitive to me at all, then what do I do? So the idea is, when we want to come close to each other, it is we come closer to each other when we have some cause bigger to work for.
So it is not about giving up our individuality, but we find some, some commonality that is higher than our individuality. See our very nature is such that we need some object of consciousness other than ourselves. If you’re always thinking about ourselves, we will never be satisfied.
If you look back at all the happiest times in our lives, it is not really the times when we are thinking about ourselves and how great I am. It is when we’re doing something wonderful. Yes, we were able to do it wonderfully.
But the most satisfying times are when we are absorbed in something bigger than ourselves. Now, this kind of, we could use the word, forgetting ourselves can happen in Tamoguna, in Rajoguna, in Satvoguna, and in Shuddhasatva. That in Tamoguna, somebody might just drink and I feel so good when I drink.
We feel good, but then you come crashing down and feel worse afterwards. But in general, you know, if you’re always thinking about ourselves, we can never be happy. We have to think of something other than ourselves.
So people, if they love sports, they either play sports or watch sports and they think this is so exciting. So they forget themselves. Entertainment is basically a way to forget ourselves.
But what do we forget ourselves in? Some people might be into nationalism or social service and then they forget themselves in that. So as devotees, we try to forget ourselves in Krishna. The point is that we have to, as long as I’m thinking about myself alone, I can never be satisfied.
And if I’m thinking only about the other person, then also I cannot be always, then also I’ll feel that my individuality is being choked. But it is rather than thinking about ourselves or the other person, we have some higher cause for which we are working. And that cause, ultimately there can be many different causes, but it is the service of Krishna that is the cause.
And even in the spiritual world, there is individuality. In fact, there are right-wing Gopis and left-wing Gopis. So that right-wing and left-wing has got nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing politics in this world.
That’s very different. So there the idea is, there are some Gopis, Rupa Goswami has written Bhakti Rasam Sindhu and an advanced analysis of the various rasas of bhakti have been given in the next book called the Ujjwal Neelamani. And in Ujjwal Neelamani, he describes various Gopis and their moods.
So he says, all the Gopis are always loving Krishna. But while loving Krishna, the way they love him is different. So he says, among the right-wing Gopis, the left-wing Gopis, the leader of one wing of Gopis is Radharani.
The leader of the other Gopis is Chandravali. And what is the difference between these two Gopis primarily in their moods? Now this that both the Gopis love Krishna and both the Gopis, both the groups of Gopis, they all want to please Krishna. But the way they please Krishna is different.
Radharani, she demands from Krishna. And she gets angry with Krishna. And Krishna runs to pacify her.
Whereas Chandravali, she’s always very accommodating. Whatever Krishna wants, you want this? Okay, you want this? You want this? Now both their love is very pleasing to Krishna. But Rupa Goswami gives the example that say, if there is, he uses the word that if there is food that is cooked in ghee, that is very sweet, that is very opulent.
It is rich food. And then he says, he says, madhu prema and grita prema. So he says that the love of Chandravali is like food cooked in ghee.
It’s rich, it’s opulent. Whereas Radharani’s love for Krishna is like food, is like some special delicacies cooked in honey, madhu, madhu prema. So he says that it is filled with sweetness.
So one is filled with richness, the other is filled with sweetness. And both please Krishna. So he gives the example that if there is one he elephant and then there are two she elephants.
So Chandravali is like the she elephant who is running after Krishna, who is the he elephant. But Krishna is the he elephant who is running after another she elephant. And that is Radharani.
So the idea is that Krishna goes out of his way to try to please Radharani. And Chandravali goes out of his way, out of her way to please Krishna. And both of them, they often, it seems, find faults with each other.
That, that in fact, there is a past time when Raghunatha was Swami, once he was, he would eat very little. And once he was given some curd, he would take very little curd, that’s all he would eat actually. He was given a little curd, he took a little, he smelled it, he said, where did you get it from? He said, we got, I got it from Sakhisthali.
And he said, Sakhisthali, that is the place of Chandravali. I cannot touch this. And he walked away from there.
He did not take any food. So we could say that there is difference among them also. But the idea is that sometimes Radharani, now he, Raghunatha Goswami is associate of the Sakhis who are serving Radharani.
He is a Manjuri. So they are always partial to Radharani. Now partial not in the sense of being biassed, but partial in the sense that they feel Radharani serves Krishna the best.
And when Chandravali serves Krishna nicely, Radharani wants to serve him even more nicely. Their moods are different. So Jiva Goswami, they are talking about their mood in the, Gopal Chamko says, that actually Radharani is, normally we think that the primary queen of Krishna in Dwarka is Rukmini.
So there is Rukmini and there is Radharani. Sorry, Rukmini, so we normally think Rukmini as the chief queen of Krishna. But he says that Rukmini’s mood is very submissive and gentle.
And we know that well-known story when Narada Muni got a Parijat flower for Krishna from the heavens and Krishna gave it to whom? No. He gave it to Rukmini. He gave it to Rukmini.
And then Satyabhama got upset. And she said, you know, you have given her, you have to give me also. And what did Krishna do? He did not just give her a tree, took her to heavens.
And then from there they got a tree, whole tree for her. Now after that Krishna expected that Rukmini will say something. He said, I want something.
But Rukmini did not say anything at all. And later on when Krishna and Rukmini are having a conversation, at that time Krishna says that by your non-demanding nature, you won my heart. So he says that Satyabhama is like, is fiery, she demands.
Whereas Rukmini accepts. And based on this, he says actually it is Radharani who manifests as Chandravali. Sorry, Radharani manifests as Satyabhama.
And Chandravali manifests as Rukmini. So in mood, Chandravali’s mood is demanding mood. And that is Satyabhama’s mood.
Sorry, I am getting confused. Chandravali’s mood is accommodating mood and that is Rukmini’s mood. And Radharani’s mood is of demanding.
So that is Satyabhama’s mood. So of course, all of them are serving Krishna in their own sweet way. And they all please Krishna.
But the point I am making is, individuality is irreducible. It is eternal. Even in the spiritual world, there is individuality.
And that individuality always goes on. And Krishna loves this individuality. In his Brahma Samhita commentary, Jiva Goswami says that, in the spiritual world, every soul is endowed with one, at least one unique quality, which flavours that soul’s relationship with Krishna in a unique way.
So Krishna has a personal relationship with everyone. Everybody has their individuality. But their individuality is not rejected or suppressed, but it is harmonised in their service to Krishna.
In their service to Krishna. So Prabhupada says in a letter that, you don’t expect utopia, that everybody will agree with everybody else. He says that when there are differences, that is simply because we are individuals.
But we need to focus on our purpose of serving Krishna. So can you go ahead? This brings us to a very important point. That pleasure is too fragile a purpose to sustain us through life’s troubles.
What do I mean? Normally we think we are all searching for happiness. We always say that the search for happiness is a common one time programme, topic we have, introductory programme. However, if we make the search for pleasure or search for happiness as the basis of our life, we can’t sustain it.
Because there are, we will go through times in our life, when there will be practically no pleasure available for us. Because pleasure itself is too fragile. It depends on so many things.
Our health should be good, our financial situation should be good, our relationships should be good. Even if you are practising bhakti, our service should be going on nicely, our programme should be going on well, Buddhist students should be going on well. If pleasure alone is the motive, then it’s not sustainable.
We need something bigger than pleasure. Now of course we want pleasure, no doubt. But that cannot be the purpose.
So another point I will make in this connection before I explain this point that even in general not only with respect to life but even with respect to relationships. If pleasure becomes the sole purpose of relationships, naturally when we have a relationship we want pleasure from it. But that becomes the sole purpose, then even relationships can’t be sustained.
This is just like say if somebody is studying, then that studying itself may not be pleasurable. The knowledge that we learn afterwards, that knowledge might be pleasurable. The marks that we get, the promotion that we get or if it’s spiritual knowledge, the way we can share that knowledge.
Everything that we do, actually it’s not that every moment of it will be pleasurable. In fact a lot may not be pleasurable at all. So it is just like if somebody is going to have a child, then they are going through pregnancy, the labour pain is not pleasurable.
Of course once you get a child it’s pleasurable. But in every activity if pleasure alone becomes a driving motive, we can’t sustain ourselves. This is the principle of 18.37, There will be pleasure.
But if pleasure alone becomes a motive, we can’t sustain it. So similarly with respect to relationships, there are many reasons why our modern society is experiencing a relationship crisis. Relationships are breaking down.
Many reasons are there, but one major reason is that there is a generational shift in attitude towards relationships. Generational shift means that in the past people understood more or less, let’s say somebody is getting married. Marriage is an obligation.
Of course everybody wants pleasure through it. But they understood marriage is a duty. And because pleasure was not the primary motive, so therefore even if some trouble came, people would go through it.
People would persevere through it. But now that whole idea of obligation is no longer there. So if any relationship is to form only for pleasure, and if pleasure stops, then why continue it? What is the point of continuing? Just let’s end it.
So if pleasure alone is the motive, then we can’t continue any relationships. Because what happens? When pleasure alone is the motive, it’s too fragile. Life in the world is too difficult to allow us to have pleasure all the time.
Definitely moments of pleasure will be there. So that’s why we see in general there is an aversion to commitment. So that aversion to commitment comes out especially in the western world where people do not even get married.
They either have live-in relationships or just have casual promiscuity. And also many people, especially in the western world, don’t want to have children. And if you have children, it becomes a commitment.
And they don’t want that commitment. So there is a joy in all of us. We have a need to nurture.
As we grow up to middle age, we have a need to nurture someone. In many American cities, I don’t know about Australia, but in many American cities, especially among the Caucasian population, the number of pets, pet dogs and cats is more than the number of children. I went once for a morning walk in LA.
I went to a park. It was an evening walk before I was going for a programme. And I saw, normally if you go to a park, you have some children playing and mothers are sitting nearby.
And this park was filled with dogs. I could practically see no children over there. So no children at all.
Sorry? Dog beaches, yeah. You know, there is something, there is a variant of yoga which is called Doga. So, Doga is what? Yoga exercises that you can do with your dog.
So, so that need to nurture is there. And then, you don’t want to have children, because children are very demanding at times. So then, just have dogs.
And, somewhere I was talking with a devotee psychologist, actually, for people, having dogs is good. Because, at least because they have a dog, to take the dog out for a walk, they go for a walk. So, in a sense, some ways it is good, but it is very sad.
I saw a car bumper sticker. It said that, the more I get to know people, the more I love my dog. So, what has happened? Because a dog will not be demanding.
And so people are sure that, when I come back from work, home, at least one member in the family will be happy to see me. So, the dog will wag its tail, bark and smile and lick my face. Oh, and I feel, my day is successful now.
So, now, all this, what does it indicate? The point I am making here is, that relationships, we may feel that I don’t have, that I don’t want to get into this trouble. Because I have to consider the other person’s perspective, keep that in mind and be sensitive, be all this. So, let me be alone.
But then they are not alone, they take care of someone else. I was talking about dogs in one class in America, and one devotee said, at least dogs are good. He said, my boss has got a pet lizard.
And actually, that boss, she had invited me to her home, and it’s like the master bedroom she has kept for a lizard. And the lizard sleeps on her bed, and she has so many things for a lizard. And she is very proud.
Just see, my lizard is so beautiful. Now, how do you see the beauty of a lizard? So, we direct our love somewhere else. So, we can’t live without relationships.
And of course, it is, at one level, sad that humans are not able to relate with each other. But at another level, we see that, that need for relationships is not going away. It is just being substituted.
So, we might get some reciprocation. And for somebody who has no reciprocation with humans for whatever reason, his reciprocation with pet might be okay. But if we can have reciprocation with human beings, that’s much, much better.
Because there is a much broader gamut of emotions and exchanges that we can have with human beings. So, if you see, in the modern or postmodern culture, there is a lot of public display of affection. And people will hug each other, kiss each other.
And I was at a programme in America, in my university. And this is a college programme. So, after that, when there was an American girl, she asked a question, Why do religions fight among each other? So, I answered.
I have a broad answer about three modes and inclusivist, exclusivist. It was an elaborate answer. She liked the answer very much.
And after that, she came and she was talking with me. And she said that, This question has been burdening me for a very long time. So, your answer has unburdened me.
I am so grateful. She said, Can I give you a hug? So, I was there with the devotee who conducts the programme there regularly. I just looked at him with my eyes.
I said, Help me. And then, he helped me. But in an entirely unexpected way.
He said, He is a monk. So, on his behalf, you can hug me. Then, his wife was there nearby.
She came forward and she said, I am his wife. On his behalf, you can hug me. The hug did happen.
So, People often, In traditional cultures, Hugging is not done publicly. Especially not between unrelated people. People are not related in the family.
But it is very common in the culture today. But still, There may be a public display of affection. But there is not much lasting relationships.
People may, When they have a relationship going on, It appears as if no one else in the world exists. And they will do anything and everything. But, when they quarrel also, It is as if no one else exists.
So, what happens is, That for relationships, How much affection is displayed Is not as important as How much there is a sharing of values and purposes. Unless there is something in common, Which is being pursued. Not just each other’s pleasure.
Each other’s pleasure is important. But in today’s world, For most people, there is no such higher purpose. Traditionally, There was a material purpose And a spiritual purpose.
Material purpose was that, Yes, we want to have a family, we want to have children, We want to take care of our children. So, that common purpose was there. And spiritually, if you understand, Can you move ahead? Can you move ahead, Prabhu? So, the purpose is not Material gratification, But spiritual evolution.
Spiritual evolution means that We are all souls on a journey Towards Krishna. And our consciousness is meant to evolve. Evolve means, currently our consciousness Is caught in small, small things.
We have various worldly attachments. But our consciousness is meant to evolve Towards Krishna. So, how does this consciousness evolve? Every Committed relationship Forces us to come out Of ourselves.
By nature, We may be very self-centred. I like this, so I’ll do it. I don’t like this, so I won’t do it.
So, We come out of ourselves When we have a relationship. So that, basically, our Centre of consciousness Expands From ourselves to include someone else. So, and that’s how, Say, when people get married, Then you have to think about the other person.
And then, when they have children, Then you have to think about the children. So, gradually, we start coming Out of ourselves, and start thinking Of something bigger than ourselves. In fact, there is growth, physical growth Happens naturally.
But actually, emotional and spiritual growth happens To the extent Someone else becomes more Important to us than We ourselves. Not that we become unimportant, but someone else Becomes more important to us than we Ourselves. And the culmination of This is when Krishna becomes The most important for us.
But it’s a progression. It’s a progression from self-consciousness To consciousness of those around us To ultimately consciousness of the One above us. It’s like, I am conscious of Myself, and then my consciousness Goes to those around me.
And those around me can be my relatives, Those around me can be other devotees. And then from the consciousness expanding To those around me, gradually the consciousness Expands to those above me. So, unless There is some shared Purpose.
Now, of course, As I said, we want pleasure. But pleasure or happiness, It is a by-product. It is never a product.
Product means, If we do something simply for Gaining pleasure, That pleasure doesn’t last For very long. Okay, I eat something, I go to watch Something, I touch something. There is some Pleasure in that, but that is short-lived pleasure.
But suppose, say, somebody Wants to learn music. Now, actually, if you want to learn music, The process Of learning music itself is Not very enjoyable. You learn something And then you make a mistake.
And then you learn something, Again you make a mistake. But When you go through that whole process, Eventually when you are able to produce, Produce good music, And you are able to relish good music, Then that is what is, that is Very fulfilling. So, it’s a, The joy is a by-product Of absorbing Oneself in learning music.
Similarly, Say, for me, my, one of my services is writing. So, writing itself, It is absorbing, But it is not always satisfying. It is, whenever I write, Oh, this is not, this sentence is not coming right, This sentence is not coming right, this is not properly said, I need a better word for this.
But at the end, when the writing is done, More than the joy that, Okay, these are particular pieces written, but the fact That I’ve been able to express my thoughts well, That is itself fulfilling. So, in general, Happiness, if I write For happiness, I will neither Write well, nor get any happiness. But if I write To express myself, to share Krishna’s message, Then, in that process, Happiness is a by-product That comes.
So, in a sense, it’s like, we can never Look at happiness directly. If we try to Look at happiness directly, happiness disappears. But if you are looking at something Bigger, something valuable, Then happiness just comes And stands in the picture, And stands there.
So, happiness is always a by-product. It’s never a product. And that’s why in a relationship, If we are constantly evaluating, Is interacting with this person making me happy or not? No, if we do something valuable, Something important, With someone, Then doing that Itself will bring satisfaction As a by-product.
Say, if now Janmashtami festival comes up, And we have to organise everything for that. Now, when we are going through it, We have to do this, we have to do this, We have to do this, It may not be very happy. We may not be jumping with happiness at that time.
We may be filled with anxiety also. This has to get done, this has to get done. But eventually, When we look back at our life, Oh, we did this service together, We made the garlands, we organised the festival, So many people came and participated.
That gives us fulfilment. So the fulfilment Is more a by-product rather than a product. And that’s why If we are forming relationship Only for gaining pleasure, Then that relationship Will not be sustainable.
So intimacy comes Not simply by seeking intimacy. Intimacy comes by Working on some deep purpose. Some purpose that is deeply meaningful For two people.
And in that, when the two people Join together, That is Where satisfaction Is experienced. All of us are very small beings. And none of us is so big That we can give Happiness to anyone else.
We can’t give happiness to ourselves. What can we give happiness to anyone else? Isn’t it? But we both can help each other In becoming absorbed in something Bigger than ourselves. And in that absorption, Both of us will get happiness.
So it is Spiritual evolution means The evolution of our consciousness. Let’s say sometimes other person may not agree with us. And other person may Differ from us and there might be a conflict.
But through it all, Through the whole process of Trying to understand other people’s perspective, Trying to become more sensitive Towards them, We are not just working For that relationship. Through it all, our consciousness is expanding. And when our consciousness Expands, then We will be able to connect with Krishna more.
And that Connection with Krishna Will give us a deeper satisfaction. Like earlier, I talked about the playing. I talked in the first session about Games.
If two rats are playing, A bigger rat can easily win. But the rat wants The game to go on. Similarly, for us, Each relationship is not itself The ultimate goal.
It’s an important goal. But through every relationship, Even if we don’t get immediate pleasure, But through that relationship, we can grow. And if you are growing through that relationship, Growing in maturity, Growing in tolerance, Growing in humility, Growing in sensitivity, Growing in responsibility, Then even if we don’t get satisfaction Through that relationship, But that expanded consciousness, That spiritually evolved self that emerges, That will be able to connect more with others, Connect better with Krishna, And satisfaction will come out.
So it’s like every relationship Or every interaction Is Not itself Necessarily pleasurable. But we will be moulded through that By which we will become More evolved, more Spiritually evolved. Can you go ahead? Now, Here, When I talked about the purpose is spiritual evolution, That Means sometimes Some relationships may not necessarily Give us pleasure, But We do them and we will evolve.
But here one important thing is that There are some interactions Which nourish us. And some interactions Which may not nourish us, They They actually purify us. Now, Nowadays the word purification has got a Negative context.
Purification normally means, Yes, we become free from last anger, greed, But purifying means It’s difficult. But we get purified, like we fast on Ekadashi. It’s not enjoyable, But it’s purifying.
So, If say we cook prasad for someone, And then we ask, How is the prasad? It’s purifying. What do you mean purifying? Did I not cook it well? Did you not like it? Prasad was purifying. That’s not the point.
All prasad is purifying. But, Some prasad, Maybe, say if we are Ekadashi, We are taking very simple food, Then that may not be very satisfying for us, But it’s always purifying. So the point I am making here is, That some interactions, They nourish us.
Ultimately, every interaction, every relationship Can help us grow, can help us evolve. But we can’t just focus only on the ultimate. Definitely we have to focus on the ultimate.
But what about now? So some relationships And some interactions nourish us. And some relationships and interactions, They drain us, They exhaust us. So we need a balance.
Just like, In a family, We may earn money, And then we may spend money. Now we are earning money also for the family, And we are spending money also for the family. But, overall, Although we are doing both for the family, If we spend more money Than what we are earning, we will get into trouble.
Similarly, If we get Into interactions, That drain us more, And we don’t have Enough interaction that nourishes more. Both may be connected with Krishna, Both may be for the service of Krishna. But eventually, we will break down.
Just like we have a financial breakdown, If we spend more than we earn, Even if we are spending for our family only. So similarly, when we are doing services, Sometimes, Say, If we have some managerial issues, Or some logistical issues, And that causes strain, that causes anxiety. Now, to some extent, Anxiety is inevitable in the world.
Any form of responsibility will bring anxiety with it. But we cannot take up so much anxiety, That we become Empty eventually. We also need to have some interactions Which nourish us.
So, we have to find out What nourishes us. So, for us, Worshipping the deity nourishes us. For us, talking with a particular devotee nourishes us.
Then, we need to Make time for that nourishment. So here, we are talking about Our ultimate need, As well as our immediate need. Ultimate need is, Even difficult relationships will purify us.
Even difficulties in relationships Will purify us. But right now also, We need to be emotionally nourished. Right now also, we need to be strong.
So, in our interactions, We can make out That some devotees, We look forward to being with them. And some devotees, This is serendipity. So, As it is said, Some people bring happiness Wherever they go.
And some people bring happiness Whenever they go. So, therefore, We all will have people like that. So, we need to make sure that We nourish ourselves also.
That we have interactions with those people Which nourish us. And sometimes, it is not just Interactions with a particular person. Even with that particular person, A particular kind of interaction might drain us.
And another kind of interaction may nourish us. Say for example, if we are discussing Logistics, do this, do that, That may not nourish us so much. But then, if we are sitting and discussing Krishna Katha, Something that inspired them, That may nourish us.
So, we all have to take responsibility To find out what nourishes us And do that. That’s how we will be able to Move forward in our life. So, this was One main theme in intimacy.
I’ll go to the next theme. But the main theme was that Pleasure is too trivial a purpose To help us find intimacy. It is a Shared value and shared purpose Working for something bigger than ourselves That will give us a close bond.
So, any reflections on this? Okay, where are the mics? One mic is… Okay, you have a mic? You want to speak something? Okay, you can speak till then. I was just saying that You mentioned pleasure as being a Spiritual element, but isn’t the ultimate Purpose also pleasure? What is the ultimate purpose of pleasure? It’s a good question. Isn’t the ultimate purpose of Spiritual life pleasure? Not exactly.
Say, when the gopis Are serving Krishna, they are not thinking About pleasure. They are thinking about serving Krishna. When Yashodhama is cooking for Krishna Or When Radharani is cooking for Krishna.
Let’s say that Radharani cooks Simultaneously 50 stoves for Krishna. She is just running from this item to this item To this item and every single item is perfectly Cooked. So, when she is cooking, She is in anxiety.
But It’s all centred on Krishna. So, there is Because there is remembrance of Krishna, there is The desire and the intention to Please Krishna. So, there is a connection Of consciousness with Krishna.
So, it is rather that It is the connection with Krishna That gives pleasure. So, a devotee is not concerned with pleasure. A devotee is concerned with serving Krishna.
And that service becomes A connection with Krishna. So, of course, We want pleasure, no doubt. But A devotee is not driven by Simply seeking pleasure.
A devotee is driven by Wanting to connect with Krishna. And when we connect with Krishna, we get pleasure. It’s a very interesting definition That Krishnadevaraya Goswami gives To differentiate between lust and love.
He says lust Is a desire to gratify one’s own senses. Whereas The aspiration to satisfy Krishna’s senses That is love. So, what does it mean? Krishna is a person, Krishna has senses.
And a devotee wants to Satisfy Krishna’s senses. So, the absorption in Krishna, the connection With Krishna is the source of Satisfaction. And when a devotee is Anxious and rather than anxious, how best Can cook for Krishna? Because she is remembering Krishna, So, even in that anxiety, there is Great satisfaction.
So, in the spiritual world, definitely It’s a place of happiness. But it’s not a place where everyone is Seeking happiness. Everyone is seeking Krishna and happiness Comes as a by-product.
So, for us, right now, When we have anxiety, When we are doing some responsible service, We have anxiety. So, what happens is Because our consciousness is not That attached to Krishna right now, So, the connection with Krishna is not There so much. And because the connection with Krishna is not there so much, So, we do not necessarily Experience that spiritual satisfaction right now.
We just experience the anxiety. But through that, Also, we are connecting with Krishna. And as the connection with Krishna will increase, The satisfaction will also increase Thereby.
Okay? Thank you. Yes, ma’am. Yes.
You can speak. Hmm. So, How, keeping away, how will we Miss out on? You are saying the same relationship That drains us also nourishes us? In general.
Okay. Yes. So, that’s a good question.
Sometimes, in order to not be drained, We lose the opportunity for being nourished also. Yeah. Then it becomes like, I said, Cynicism and naivety.
If you become cynical about relationships, Then we cannot bond with anyone. So, every relationship Will, in one sense, Make some demands. It’s always, see, every bond Comes with a boundary.
That is just the nature of relationship. Every bond comes with a boundary. Just like, say, Before marriage, a man and a woman Might be freely mixing with everyone.
But if they get married, there is a bond that is formed. But with that bond comes a boundary. Now, if you say, I want the bond, but I don’t want any boundary, Then you cannot have a relationship like that.
Every bond Will bring a boundary with it. And, to some extent, The stronger the bond, The more demarcated the boundary. It is not necessary that the smaller The circle, the circle can still be big.
But still, there will be a clearer boundary. When you bond with someone, You will think, okay, if I do this, this will displease this person. So, I should not do this.
This will please them, so I will do it. So, that is always going to be there. We cannot have any bond Which will come without a boundary.
That’s just not possible. Relationships don’t work like that at all. But the boundary means What pleases that person and what displeases that person.
We act accordingly. But, If we have had Negative experiences With, say, People letting us down, Betraying us or whatever, It is natural that we will be cautious. Eight, ten years ago, I had a fracture in my leg, The same leg which I had polio.
So, at that time, initially I was told, Completely keep your leg Immobile. Even if the plaster was removed, Don’t put any weight on the leg, don’t exercise any leg. So, initially, For recovery of the leg, What was needed was exercise.
And maybe it was for about one month, Something like that. And after that, I was told, now you have to move your leg. Although it was painful, Because the leg was Inactive and then some Inserts had been put in the leg, But now I said, if you want to recover, You have to move your leg.
And gradually by moving, Energy starts coming up. So, similarly, If we are emotionally wounded, Then there will be Naturally a time when we will need to withdraw. Just like If a hand is fractured, there is a time when Keep the hand inactive.
So, we will want to withdraw. I don’t want any more interactions. It’s too difficult.
It pains me too much. It’s understandable. But just as recovery requires At a physical level, rest sometime And exercise sometime.
Similarly, even emotional recovery Or relational recovery may require Withdrawal initially, But it also requires engagement eventually. So, Now, when exactly That withdrawal ends and engagement Begins, that will vary from person to person. And Some people may need it very less, Some people may need it more.
Say, if a loved one passes away. Then different people grieve differently. So, when people grieve, Grieving is a natural part of healing.
Grieving is not the same as Lamenting. Lamenting is where we are just constantly thinking about That loss and feeling sorry for ourselves. But grieving is where There is a person important in our lives And that person is gone.
There is emptiness in our life. And we have to come to terms with it. So, there is a time when Withdrawal might be required.
So, we need to give ourselves time for that withdrawal. But eventually we need to know Healing will also require engagement. So, both Are required.
So, when the transition will happen, We can see for ourselves. If we feel, okay, I don’t want to talk to people, I don’t want to engage, that’s fine. We can understand, we can empath, we can Be understanding towards ourselves.
But if that goes on for a long long time, Then we say, this is Not healthy. I need to engage with people also. And we try it out How it works.
Just like when you Put your foot a little bit and see How much pain is there. Okay, I can carry this much weight. Oh, this much weight you can’t carry.
Then we gradually learn to walk. So, like that, we take a few steps Forward and see how things move. And then gradually we re-engage ourselves.
Thank you. Take a I would say In this case, a step of faith. Not a leap of faith.
Leap will be too much here. Small steps of faith. Yeah.
Yes, sir. Pranubh, You said that Happiness is Just like that. I was just trying to Relate 266 Beautiful.
Happiness And peace. How can there be happiness without peace? So, one who is not connected With the screen can have Intelligence. Without which there is no possibility of peace.
Without peace. So, are we seeking happiness Or are we seeking peace Or both? And how is peace related to be a by-product Of doing something On a higher level? So, Bhagavad Gita 2.66 Says that How can you have happiness if there is no peace? So, are we looking for peace? Are we looking for happiness? Or are we looking for something higher? So, 2.66 Krishna says Yukta. Yukta means connected.
Connected spiritually. Connected with Krishna ultimately. So, without a spiritual connection We cannot have a clear mind.
We cannot have a clear intelligence. We cannot have peace. We cannot have happiness.
So, what Krishna is Telling here is that The connection with him A spiritual connection is the foundation for everything. So, let’s look at this particular point of Without peace, how can there be happiness? Here Krishna is talking That What he is talking Suppose If our mind is agitated Then Even if we are doing something enjoyable We will not be able to enjoy it. Suppose, say Somebody gives me a delicious feast But, say I am sitting on this chair And this chair is filled with thorns And I am eating delicious food.
How can I Enjoy that food? The food might be delicious But the food’s taste is intermittent Whereas thorns Thorns are continuous. So, like that Without peace, how can there be happiness? So, the mind is agitated Even if you are disturbed about something Even if Some pleasurable stimuli come up That will not Be able to enjoy it much. So, In that context Krishna is telling Arjun That You have to First connect with me.
So, are we looking for peace? Are we looking for happiness? Ultimately we are looking for a connection with Krishna. Because if we are looking Only for peace Then Often We are taking up any kind of responsibility Any kind of service Sometimes peace goes away because of that. If we wanted peace When When When A woman has a child Peace really goes away.
But there is something more That comes with it. So, when we are fed up with things We want peace. But peace is not what we want As the ultimate goal in our life.
So, peace We want as a way to happiness. So, for us Krishna is saying that Krishna is saying over here That if you connect with me In our life There will always be Some order And some chaos. Something which are going well and something which are We don’t know how they are going.
They are going badly or they are going unpredictably. We don’t know. So, for us The orderly part if it is stable Then The disorderly or unpredictable part We can deal with it.
So, if the orderly part Also becomes disorderly Then it becomes very difficult To deal with things. Say we might have some Some big crisis in our Job. But then if our family Is there and family support you Then that can help us to deal with the crisis.
But if that both are not there If you have family crisis or professional crisis It may become very difficult to deal with that. Then at least we need to have our spirituality. If Our spirituality is also not there Then if there is nothing Which is orderly for us There is too much complexity.
In fact, that is the next point I am going to speak about. Complexity. That we all Our lives are complex.
Even our minds are complex. So, chaos is there where there is complexity. And for us We can only manage a finite amount of complexity.
So, if things become too complicated Then we can’t deal with it. So, there will be Some complexity inevitably in life But there has to be some order in life also. So, when there is order That order becomes like a foundation And then we can deal with the chaos or the complexity That is there.
So, for us Krishna is saying that the connection With him will be what will bring Order to us. Whatever changes in my life The weather changes, my health changes My finances change But Krishna is still my lord. In remembering him, in serving him Still I can get strength.
Still I can get stability. So, when we have that spiritual connection Then other things we can pursue And get them in a meaningful way. Well, I think the first question How do we train our minds to be non-judgemental? It’s like after hearing a Ram Katha You are asking who is Sita? That’s what you have been discussing about throughout, isn’t it? That’s what you have been discussing about throughout, isn’t it? I asked that question And the reason I asked that is Everything is good in theory In the sense, we are talking about it all the time But it goes back to what Javad Maharaj asked yesterday That how can you be spontaneous? So, if I am thinking about All the time Compared to a question If I am thinking about Ram All the time About a frame of reference And trying to talk to someone Then it becomes very difficult So, it’s a question of How can we spontaneously Be non-judgemental? That’s what I was thinking How do we try to be applied on a daily basis In every conversation that we have? In a relaxed environment How can we spontaneously be non-judgemental? How can we spontaneously be non-judgemental? Don’t be unrealistic Even if we can become Conscientiously non-judgemental That is also good Leave alone spontaneously It’s almost impossible It’s our Our frame of mind Is often so deeply rooted with us Deeply connected with us That it’s very difficult to Become free from it But what we can do is We can become more aware of its presence So, it’s basically Whenever Rather than Becoming spontaneously Non-judgemental is almost impossible But what we could do is Whenever we start thinking negatively about some person That could be like an alarm Maybe I am being judgemental over here Not necessarily Sometimes our negative assessments May be based on reality also But at least whenever We are having a negative attitude Towards someone Negative emotions start coming up towards me That is the time when there can be like an alert Or maybe I am being non-judgemental over there Maybe I am being judgemental over here So, that could be one Like on the walk Or on the feet That can be like an alert for us And in general, apart from that We can look at our own lives And It’s I saw one A documentary Not a documentary, like a video clip It showed that this person He was watching a Like a video On which Pictures of different people were being shown And he was also being Videoed He did not know it was being videoed So, what was happening was He was looking And as he was looking at different people Sometimes a smile was coming Sometimes a frown was coming Sometimes a glare was coming So, it was almost so clear It was almost like the face Is a window to the mind So, maybe somebody whom you like you show Then you become very cheerful Somebody you don’t like You become annoyed Somebody you hate, you just become angry So, what was happening The idea of that video was that Actually, we can ourselves Maybe sometimes sit back and think Of the important people in our lives And just as we think about them What is the thought that comes in What is the kind of emotion that comes in our mind So, about those people whom we get negative emotion We could understand maybe these are the people With whom I tend to be judgemental And with these people I have to be more cautious So, one is directly when we feel negative The other is when by just by thinking About people we start feeling negative That is how we can understand that we have some Judgemental attitude And of course there can be the other side of judgmentality also If some people Whatever they do We are still happy with them That also means that Maybe our perception is skewed towards them In a Disproportionate way Like that is the attachment That also we can be aware of It is primary to self observation Thank you So, Yes ma’am You said that When we serve We serve for a higher purpose For the pleasure of Krishna And as devotees We are aware that You know whatever is So much you can copy For the pleasure of Krishna And to satisfy The sensitive Krishna And in the process We also become happy And we need to enjoy doing some Seva For example like singing Or giving a lecture We feel very happy doing that So, As we go on Are we doing that Seva Because we are feeling happy Or are we doing it Purely for Krishna’s pleasure How do we distinguish Between the two Or should we distinguish Or should we ignore And persevere Suppose if we are doing a particular service And we get happiness also in that service So are we doing it for Our own happiness or are we doing it for Krishna’s pleasure Suppose Somebody makes a joke in a class And then Instead of laughing we start thinking Am I laughing for my pleasure or Krishna’s pleasure The speaker will start crying So There is what is called Paralysis by analysis So we don’t have to overanalyze things If Like earlier I said Serving Krishna Is not about denying our individuality So when I say that I like doing something Now we could also go deep We could just say I am self centred so I like it But you could also say Generally when we like something It is because usually We are able to do it well And if we are able to do it well Then That means we are gifted in that way So who has given us that gift It is Krishna who has given us that gift So in a sense the gift that Krishna Has given us We are using it to serve Krishna And if in that we get happiness There is nothing wrong in it So it is not that we are Meant to be miserable And that is the test of the purity of our service No You know somebody like Sometimes some devotees are chanting And it appears as if They are doing weight lifting And this is Sometimes you have to exercise while chanting In a sense it is a mental exercise More than physical But bhakti it is not that The test of purity is not that it causes pain to us The test of purity is that We do it To serve Krishna So The way to go through this is If we consider some things which give us pleasure And some things which we know are Service to Krishna So if we situate ourselves In the intersection of the two That is the way To stably practise bhakti You see varanashram It is not just about dividing people into classes The principle of varanashram is That we use Our material nature To realise our spiritual nature A brahmana’s material nature Is to be intellectual What does it mean that somebody’s Material nature is Brahmana’s material nature is to be intellectual That means that guna karma Vibhagasha So guna karma in English The most accessible translation You can just use it as quality and activity But in more accessible terms The way I say it is that If we have the quality for doing something That means we are comfortable doing it And if we have the activity of doing it well That means we are competent at doing it So if there is something Doing which we are comfortable And which we are competent at Then that is broadly According to our nature And that is the traditional system Of how people can engage themselves Sustainably in bhakti So whatever is Our material nature We use it to realise our spiritual nature And that way When we practise bhakti We move forward steadily So if we get pleasure That is perfectly fine It is that it is not only For our pleasure we are doing it In general The nature of the world is That Even if we are doing something That we like to do We can’t do only that There are so many other things Which we have to do for that And all that we have to do associated with that That has its own anxiety That has its own drain That has its own responsibility And then we do that That gives us pleasure So there will always be a balance of the whole thing So Last time I had gone to On a world tour before I came to America Last time I had come to Australia I had also gone from Australia to America So I was almost like Five, five and a half months I was on a tour So in five and a half months I gave about Each day one class Some day two, some day no classes I spoke about 200 hours I must have spoken About 200 to 225 hours And then I calculated I just kept a track of All the logistics that I had to go through Planning which programme will be where Which dates to go where Always so many overlaps happen And you miss flight sometimes and sometimes visa doesn’t come So many things happen So I calculated actually I had to spend almost 200 hours arranging all the logistics Because if you are going to Almost 50, 55 places Then logistics It’s not just the travelling time, travelling time is different Just the logistics time Now that’s not something I like But if I want to travel And speak about Krishna this is what I have to do So if somebody Says okay I want to sing for Krishna But You know everybody else Should arrange the sound system, arrange the Mridanga, arrange the Kartal, I’ll only come and sit And I’ll give Kirtan Well that may not happen If I want to do Kirtan Then I may have to arrange the logistics for that I may have to arrange the forum for that You know if you want to form a Kirtan group So that we can have Kirtans Then we may have to take up the responsibility for doing that So even for doing what we like to do There will also be things which we don’t like to do Which we have to do To do that thing which we like to do So So One of the So what I tell myself is that We need to learn to like the things We need to do So that we can do the things we like to do Well I like to make sentences like this So we need to learn to Like the things we need to do So that we can do the things we like to do It doesn’t matter Ok Sorry Cycling Cycling Circular relationship Circular relationship That’s true Thank you Yes Yeah You can go ahead You said that we can work together So Based in Context of what you spoke yesterday about Friends What if One thinks differently and the other thinks differently Like for instance A woman My tendency is different My approach is different Hmm So if It’s a man and a woman are working together And You are not talking Are you talking about a family setting or a service setting Or Ok Anywhere we are doing services together It’s specifically male female Or yeah that’s just an example Yeah I think we answered this question in the second session which we had We talked about if the two frames of references are very different Then what to do You were there at that time But I can add a couple of points over there Into this See firstly If there are If there are differences If two people are very different It is just Natural that there will be some conflict So we should Expect that there will be no differences No conflict that’s just utopia We expect there will be differences but if we have Some reasonable mechanism for dealing with Difficulties then we can move forward Ok at this issue We will do your way or my way but later on we will discuss Why did we choose your way What was my thinking in doing this At the issue when something has to be done If we start having too big a quarrel It may not work out so well Let’s do some way right now but if something has to be done But later on have a mechanism Where we can discuss So that we can understand each other’s perspectives So if we are going to Work for a long time In a particular service together Then We need to treat Understanding each other also as a service We need to spend some time To understand each other If we don’t do that then we cannot Serve in a long term relationship If we work with we interact with so many people We can’t really spend time Understanding each person We don’t have that much time But if we are working for a long term relationship Then spending time to understand each other is important And Having some mechanism by which we can Connect and communicate that’s also helpful And one last thing could be That if There are It’s not that the conflicts come up Everywhere It is just that two people are different And for each person Certain things are very important So if say two people Are working together in A B C Now A is very important For the person 1 C is very important for person 2 Now if Person 2 allows A To do 1 in their way And person A allows C to be done in that way of 2 Things can work out So we need To not just understand Each other’s values It is a frame of reference It is important to understand The hierarchy of values also That what is most important for someone So it is very rare that For both people The same thing is supremely important It is just that Say something is very important And that person feels It is a great sacrifice Do it your way And the other person feels That was actually not very important for me This person feels I sacrificed so much And the other person feels What did you do? No big deal So that if we also communicate We understand to understand What is most important for me See more often That differences of opinion Are not as Troubling As differences About the importance of the differences What I am saying? See That this difference of opinion Is a minor difference This difference of opinion is a major difference So we will all have differences of opinion But minor differences Whether it goes my way or your way It does not matter But major differences of opinion The time needs to be spent on resolving them So which difference of opinion Is how important for the other person If you understand that Then we can know Where to do it our way Where to let it go So understanding Not just how other people think But within their thinking What is how important If you can do that Then it becomes easier to work with Different minded people also Not all the time It just requires some time to be spent Just with each other Understanding each other Definitely that much is required Yesterday I talked about Not just a transactional Relationship but also a transformational relationship So we need to spend some time To understand each other Not just as Like from a low resolution Just agents in doing the service But high resolution as Conscious beings So we need to spend some time At least for people with whom we work regularly … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … So what is the role of Our own intuition In understanding how we should Grow in our spiritual life Is it that we just follow instructions or is it that we try to, because we can understand ourselves the best.
So we understand ourselves and then we choose to grow in a particular way. There is essentially the understanding that the spiritual authorities and the devotees, they are both working cooperatively for the growth of the soul, growth of the devotee. Now, as I mentioned in the previous class, when our movement started, the devotees who came first to Krishna Consciousness, they had practically no awareness of anything.
So at that time, Prabhupada had to stress this point of, just defer to the authority of the spiritual master, just do what the spiritual master tells you to do. And that is important. But at the same time, we also see that, like I said, Krishna respects human intelligence.
Krishna tells Arjuna, deliberate and decide what you want to do. So as our movement has evolved now, we are no longer a temple-based movement. Earlier it was just a straight temple-based movement where everybody was living in the temple and everybody was directly in the institution, staying within the institution premises.
And practically we were like a cloistered organisation, set out from the world. But now most of us are congregation devotees. And we have our own families, our own careers, our own social lives.
So the extent to which the institution can either exercise control or even provide guidance, both ways, both have become significantly decreased. So to a large extent, for sustainability in spiritual life, individual responsibility is important. Now individual responsibility and individual initiative are not at the cost of submission.
It is not that we are to be defiant to the authority. It is not that we are to be rejecting the authorities. But it is rather that each of us has to find out how best we can work, work so that we grow in our spirituality.
So there are, you could say, there is freedom and there is facility. In general, in spiritual life, we won’t get both together. So freedom means, I want to start a programme, but you want to do this, this, this in the programme.
And I want to have the freedom to, I want to teach this or I want to do kirtans in this way, I want to do it in this way. Now if we want freedom, then we may not get the facility. Facility means the institution has some resources.
And the institution has its resources, those resources will be used, those facilities will be used according to the vision of the leaders of the institution, whoever is the leader. So now if we want freedom, we may not get facility. If we want facility, then we may not get that much freedom.
So if say we want to take a topic on, take a seminar on a particular topic, now generally in the temple if we have seminars, in the temple if we have Bhagavatam class or Sunday feast, those have to be directly shastra based classes. But if you want to attract new people and you want to take some direct self-help topic or something like that, you may say, okay, maybe temple hall is not the best place to take this kind of programme. You take it somewhere else.
Because the temple, the facility are meant primarily for a particular purpose. So much frustration comes in our life when we expect both together, freedom and facility. So in general, everything will come with its own, you could say, price.
So if we want freedom, then we shouldn’t expect so much facility. So I will give an example for this is that, say, I know two senior devotees. Both of them are very dedicated.
Both of them, they are very close to their spiritual master. And both of them, both of them are well-known leaders in our movement. Now one of them is working directly with the spiritual master.
So wherever the spiritual master travels, most of the places, this devotee is always with the spiritual master, is seen with him. And the spiritual master always calls this devotee and talks with this devotee and spends hours and hours with this devotee. The other devotee has his own project.
He is leading his own project. And maybe once in a few months, he meets the spiritual master, spends some time with him. So now, I talked with both of them.
And they said that, actually, this devotee who works with the spiritual master, he told me that, he was also very intelligent, both of them are very intelligent devotees, but he says, if I have to be this close and serve my spiritual master, I have to literally put my intelligence aside. And I have, the only intelligence I have to use is to fulfil the instruction of the spiritual master. So he was telling me, he said that, every time my spiritual master calls me, my heart starts beating.
Not out of excitement. What new services come up now, because the spiritual master also has great dreams for serving Krishna. So he said that, actually, I have to more or less give up my freedom, so that I have the facility of lot of association of my spiritual master.
And this other devotee, later to my talk, he said that, he is also very visionary, doing a lot of services. But he told me that, actually, I need my space. The spiritual master is happy with both of them.
Because both of them are doing phenomenal services. But this devotee, he makes his own plans, and he executes his plans, works very hard. But he doesn’t get that much association of the spiritual master.
So, if the spiritual master, now the spiritual master is happy that both of them are serving Krishna. But the spiritual master has a personal vision of what I want to contribute to Krishna’s mission. And if somebody is directly helping in that, then actually the spiritual master will give more time, more attention to that person.
But then that person will have to execute the spiritual master’s vision. Not one’s own vision. Now again, one’s own vision is not a wrong thing.
Because we can say that, Prabhupada has created like a big umbrella, within which all of us can have our own small small umbrellas. So, we can have our own vision also, nothing wrong in it. But then, we can’t be complaining, if we want our freedom, that we don’t have facility.
So, different devotees may have grown up in their spiritual life in different ways. So, some devotees who have grown up being nourished by getting the facility. So, here I use, the association of the spiritual master is also a facility.
The association of senior devotees also is a facility. So, then if they have grown up and nourished that way, they will tell, just put aside your own intelligence, just do whatever the spiritual master is telling you, and you will grow spiritually. And yes, we will grow that way.
But there are other devotees who have grown up in the other way also. Those who came to Srila Prabhupada’s movement in the 1960s, they got a lot of personal association with Srila Prabhupada. Those who came in the 70s, they got very little personal association with Srila Prabhupada.
So, and both the devotees, the pre-70 and the post-70 devotees, both of them have done a lot of service to Srila Prabhupada in their own ways. So, different devotees will have different models based on their own inspiration and their own experience. So, the only thing is, we can choose whichever way we want to grow in our spiritual life, as long as it is with the broad blessings or broad acceptance of the community or community leaders.
So, it is not necessary that everybody has to be doing exactly what the spiritual master is telling. Because the spiritual master may not even have the time to tell each disciple what to do. I was talking with one spiritual master, and he was telling me that he has many many disciples.
So, I asked him, how do you guide them? He says, I tell them basically three things. He says, be Krishna conscious, be happy and have good relationship with your local authorities. So, three things.
He says, within this, whatever you want, you can do. So, be Krishna conscious, be happy and have good relationship with your local authorities. So, how we can do it specifically, that will vary from person to person.
So, some devotees can work very closely with the authorities and they can grow in a wonderful way. Some devotees may not feel so inspired by a particular leader. Then they may have to take up more responsibility themselves, more initiative.
So, it is a balance between freedom and facility. Does that answer your question? Yes, something more in mind? My question was more from a personal point of view. But I think your answer, I think, adds to it.
Yeah. That’s also the same principle, I think. So, in our personal life, should we read more books or should we chant more rounds or should we worship the deities more? Should we do a particular seva more? That all is inspiration, it’s inspiration based.
Each one of us can choose what we want to do the most. So, say, if the temple’s mood is to study Shastra a lot and somebody says, I want to chant more rounds, that’s what gives me stress. It’s good, you can chant more rounds.
But then you can’t expect, you can’t demand that everybody else in the community also stop doing their other things and start chanting rounds with us. So, if the temple’s mood is doing a lot of kirtans, but we like to study Shastra, then we can’t demand, we can study Shastra and we can share it with others and we might also form a like-minded community, like-minded group around us. But it might be a small group.
So, we have to work according to our inspiration. Thank you. Yes.
Any other questions or comments? Where is it? Oh, okay. Okay, I saw that, yeah. So, if one person is ready to reconcile, but the other person is not.
So, I was at one mediation and one devotee came to the other devotee. He says, I know you are angry with me. He said, I am not angry with you.
This devotee thought, oh, not angry. I am not angry with you. Anger is an expensive emotion.
You are not worth it. So, sometimes it does happen that one devotee is holding on to the negativity for a long time. Then what can we do? We can try to express our desire to reconcile and we can try to make some gestures to try to reconcile.
But beyond that, there is not much we can do. Broadly speaking, I use this, I try to use this guideline of three A’s. Acknowledge, apologise and amend.
Acknowledge that this was, I should not have spoken like this. I should not have done like this. And then not just acknowledge the mistake, but also apologise.
There is a form of apology called apology non-apology. Apology non-apology means, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. That means not I am sorry I did something wrong.
If your feelings were hurt, I am sorry for that. When actually you are saying you are so sensitive that you got hurt and I am sorry about that. So, that is called apology non-apology.
That is not actually an apology. So, acknowledge that I made a mistake and then apologise for the mistake. And if something can be done to amend it, we do what we can to amend.
So, some practical actions we can do to amend. So, we can do that. But if some people are not ready to reconcile, then what can we do? Just have to maybe write our apology, write our feelings and just give it to them.
And if they do not want to talk with us also, then just we do it and we move on. It is ultimately we are trying to develop a relationship with Krishna. And we are trying to develop relationship with Krishna’s devotees also.
So, sometimes if a particular relationship does not work out well, we just move on. Because we cannot heal all relationships. See, love can be one way.
But a loving relationship cannot be one way. We might still want to reconcile. But if the other person does not want to reconcile, then we just have to move on in our lives.
So, that is what I can say. Can our eternal spiritual relationship be expressed through our material bodies? Let us say it is really very difficult to try to analyse the difference of material and spiritual like this. Because right now the only access to spirituality that we have is through our material body and material mind.
The soul, what exactly is the soul? We understand the soul is the source of consciousness. But beyond that we do not even know what the soul exactly is. What the soul’s characteristics are beyond Satchitananda.
So, that is why it is not very constructive to try to get into that zone. That whether what I am doing is just simply using my material body in Krishna’s service or expressing a spiritual quality. We just do what we can in our relationship with Krishna.
And if our attachment to Krishna grows, then naturally things will emerge in future. There was a disciple of Prabhupada who was attracted by some Radhakund Babaji. And then he left and he was sitting in a room and then Prabhupada sent one of his disciples to check out what he is doing and to call him back.
So, this devotee was just sitting in a room and for hours and hours. Just doing like that. And Krishna, Krishna, Krishna.
He said, what happened? What are you doing? He said, this is, actually my Guru has told me that I am a peacock in the spiritual world. And the peacock moves its neck and chants Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna. So, I am training to be a peacock in the spiritual world.
Now, when the devotee told Prabhupada that, Prabhupada tells, tell him to do something practical. So, actually, if we just serve Krishna, the foundation of everything in the spiritual world, whether it is Dasara, Shantara, Sakharas, Madhuras, whatever. The foundation of all that is service attitude.
All the devotees are serving Krishna. So, if we develop that service attitude and try to serve Krishna, whatever is at the spiritual level will manifest gradually. So, there is no need to bother too much about whether we are expressing our eternal spiritual nature or just utilising our conditioned nature.
The important thing is to connect with Krishna. Yes, madam. Just reflecting on the previous comment, what Shri Mataji was saying is peace and happiness.
And it is related to this point as well. I just want to get clarification from you that what I understood is peace and happiness is not in this material world. So, it is there in the eternal world.
Happiness is just coming, it is there, but it is not in the material world. The soul is eternal and it is always happy. But it lost happiness because of the punishment.
And what we need to do as a soul is always serve, rather than just looking for happiness and peace. Always serve Krishna and abhor the pleasure of Krishna. I want to say that extreme.
It is not that we should not consider happiness at all. It is just like I said, if I answer this question, if we get happiness doing some service. It is not that we stop doing it.
It is just that happiness should not be our primary motive in doing devotional service. While doing devotional service, if you find out, there are five different services. And this service, I get the most happiness in doing it.
Then doing that is perfectly fine. And especially, not only do we get more happiness doing it, we are also able to do it well. Then we can do that.
It is not that we run away from happiness. Nor is it that we run towards happiness. We want to move towards Krishna.
And we want to move towards Krishna in a way that is also in harmony with our body and mind. So, it should not be too much in disharmony with our body and mind. So, in one sense, you could say that to be in harmony with ourselves is Satva Guna.
To be in harmony with Krishna is Bhakti. Issue the Satva Guna. So, people in Satva Guna in this world are also relatively peaceful and joyful.
Somebody who likes to be an artist and they are artist. Even if they become famous or they don’t become famous, in the art itself they get joy. Because they are in harmony with themselves.
So, somebody is in harmony with Krishna, that is a much greater joy. So, it is not that we don’t run towards happiness. Nor do we run away from happiness.
We focus on moving towards Krishna. And while moving towards Krishna, we find that lane by which we can move more smoothly. Say there is a multi-lane expressway.
And say some is for a super fast car, some is for big vehicles, some is for two wheelers. And like that there are different lanes for different vehicles. And we find out on which lane our vehicle can move more smoothly.
So, that itself, moving in a lane on which we can move more smoothly, that itself is fulfilling. That there is happiness in that itself. So, we should definitely not be running away from happiness.
And not should be running wherever there is happiness seems to be there. We should be moving towards Krishna in a way that is also satisfying for us. Okay, does that make sense? Thank you.
Yeah, okay. Can you complete this first? We have few minutes Prabhu. I will try to do a rapid fire thing.
Okay, let me complete this. Okay. How can we encourage people to share their heart? It is not something which can be done artificially.
It is just that if people feel that, okay, is this way that what we speak about others speaks about us. That means that if I speak negatively about others, there is one devotee, you know, whatever you speak to him, I know one devotee in one place, whatever you speak to him privately, the next day it will come out in his class. He may not mention the name, but when he speaks it, everybody can understand what the context who is speaking about.
So, then devotee says, I cannot speak with this person. So, actually, if we want devotees to open their heart, then we have to make sure that we do not speak negatively about others. In front of them.
So, what we speak about others speaks about us. That means if I am speaking negatively about some devotee, you know what this devotee has done? You know what this devotee has done? That means it speaks about me that actually I like to gossip. I am not very trustworthy.
So, then that devotee will think, oh, if you can speak like that about that person, then you speak about me also tomorrow. So, therefore, if we can ourselves in general speak positively about devotees and if at all we have to speak negatively, we are very cautious. We frame it properly so that there is positive speech, then there is some negative speech, then there is a positive speech.
So, that overall we do not leave others with the negative perception of somebody. That if we are in general positive and appreciative of devotees, then people will see that we are not judgemental. We are not condemning and that will encourage them to open heart.
Just telling people open their hearts. It is not going to work much. People have to see how how those who are going through trouble, how they are dealt with, how much they are understood, how much they are cared for, how much their say their values, their feelings are cared for.
When that is seen through the conduct, then naturally people will become more ready to open up. Let me complete this first and you can see if you have time. Otherwise you can talk privately.
Sometimes being practical leads to stress as we discard the views of others. How do we deal with the stress on body and mind? That is why I said we need time to replenish ourselves. We cannot run from one tough service to another tough service to another tough service.
In general, there is a time for we could say there is a time for doing responsible services which may drain us. And then there has to be time for nourishing ourselves. So, we need to make that time.
If we don’t make that time, we will not be able to serve sustainably. So, we want to serve in such a way that two things should happen if we are serving. One is our desire for service should increase.
And secondly, our attraction to Krishna should increase. If these two are happening, then our service is on a nice track. But if we are just feeling drained and burdened, then it’s not a good thing.
So, we need to replenish ourselves. So, we are not infinite and we have to work within our capacities. Well, I cannot explain anything in detail right now.
But as far as prescriptive, descriptive and normative is concerned, in general, I would say that if devotees have written memoirs, like their own life stories, they are excellent examples of descriptive. So, if somebody is telling their life story, this happened and this is what I learnt from it. This happened and this is what I learnt from it.
Now, that is a very non-threatening way of sharing some values. So, if you want to learn more about the descriptive way of doing, you can read. Many devotees nowadays are writing their own memoirs.
I think the memory of Prabhupada is also good. But then it becomes more centred on how Prabhupada dealt with them. But if their own spiritual journey, if they write, if they have written, then reading about that helps a lot to learn how to do, how to share in a descriptive way.
In general, the most important thing is that we keep focused on thinking that if I were not in a position of authority, this is a very good, I will conclude, this answer I will conclude, say, I often tell that if you are speaking to someone over whom you have no authority, say, it is like your, maybe your older brother or older sister or somebody like a father figure or a mother figure, somebody like that, somebody with whom you have, over whom you have no authority, if you were to explain this to them, how would you explain to them? Then we would naturally not be instructing them. We would mostly be explaining ourselves to them. There are some devotees, when we come in front of them, it is like we have to justify our existence to them.
You know, what is the basis by which you are existing in Prabhupada’s moves? What are you doing? They are like ultra-judgemental. So, but the point is that if we have that attitude that if I were to explain this to someone over whom I had no authority, how would I explain this? And if we use that even to explain to people with whom we think we have authority, usually we think we have more authority over people than what we actually have. So, it is always better to have that attitude.
So, that is a good way to learn how best to speak. So, thank you very much.