How to see God in this world

[Talk to IIT Kharagpur students at Kharagpur, India]

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Hare Krishna.
Today, I will talk on the topic of how the world points to God. I will take the 10th chapter, section from the Bhagavad Gita to direct this contemplation. Now, broadly speaking, in the world itself, wherever there is the conception of God and the idea of approaching God, it is understood that God is beyond the world.
So, there are two aspects to God. There is His emanence and there is His transcendence. Emanence means that God manifests in this world, that God exists within nature.
Transcendence means God exists beyond nature. Now, actual reality is a balance of both. If God were only transcendent, if God existed only beyond this world, our consciousness can’t conceive of anything beyond this world.
So, then He would not be reachable for us. So, when Krishna manifests as a Deity, He is still transcendental. Still, He is manifested in a manifestation of this world.
So, the transcendence actually preserves God’s purity. It maintains that He is not affected by any of the contaminations that characterise this world. The transcendence maintains God’s purity.
His emanence maintains His accessibility. So, if God would be only transcendental, He would not be accessible to us. Now, Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita that just think about it.
Now, how do we think about Krishna? One way is we can behold the form of Krishna. For Arjuna, Krishna is right in front of him. We can think about how Krishna performs pastime in the spiritual world.
And that way we can think of Him. So, Krishna talks about how, in the 10th chapter, it is called as Vibhuti Yoga. Vibhuti Yoga is the, Prabhupada translates that as the opulence of the absolute.
And in that chapter, 10.8 to 11, is the Chatur Shloki Gita. In the Chatur Shloki Gita, Krishna talks about how those who are transcendentalists, they are devoted to Him, they are absorbed in Him. He says that, you think about me.
Krishna Prabhupada is so poetic. He translates Machitta, not just that you think about me. He translates that as their thoughts reside in me.
Just like we reside in some place. If we have a home where we stay, we can go to 100 other places. But as soon as the work is done, we come back home.
Like that, devotees, they also by functioning in this world, they have to think of 100 other things. But as soon as the thinking is done, they come back to Krishna. Their thoughts reside in Krishna.
So, Machitta, Maggata, Prana, their life is devoted to Him. And, Bodhayantah Parasparam, they enlighten each other. And in this way, Kathyantash Chaman Nityam.
This way, always talk about me. Tushyanti Charananti Charan. In this way, they delight and they rejoice.
So, this is the description. It’s very significant here. Krishna says that Bodhayantah, Bodha means to explain or to enlighten.
In the previous word, this is 10.9, in 10.8, Krishna has said that these devotees, they are Budha. aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate iti matvam vijen demam budhah bhavah samanvitah He has already said that they are Budha. They are enlightened.
The word Budha is cognate with the word Buddha. Buddha can refer to a specific person, but it can also refer generically to an enlightened one. So, they are enlightened.
So, if they are already enlightened, what is Bodhayantah? So, actually, even Shri Raghupati explains that because Krishna is unlimited, a devotee can keep unlimitedly discussing about Krishna. So, I see Krishna from my perspective. You see Krishna from your perspective.
And because I am seeing Krishna, I am enlightened. Because you are seeing Krishna, you are enlightened. But both of us are seeing from different perspectives.
And when we discuss, we enlighten each other more and more about Krishna’s glory. So, Krishna’s glory is enlightened, even the enlightened. That is the ecstasy of devotional enlightenment.
The ecstasy of devotional enlightenment is that it is not a state, it is a process. That devotee is keen getting enlightened on and on and on till infinity. Always relishing Krishna’s glory.
Now, after hearing this, Arjuna reiterates, Yes, Krishna, what you are saying is true, I accept it. Then, he, actually at this point, is there an echo? Are you able to hear properly? So, at this point, the Acharyas explain that, in a sense, Arjuna’s doubts are over. He has accepted.
He says, Param brahma param dhama, Pavitram param mam bhavan, Purusham shashtam divyam, Adi devam ajam vidhum, Ahus tvam vishayam sarve, Devar shivnath rastakham, Asito devanoh yasa, Swayam chaiva brahise mayam. In 10.12 and 13, he says, Krishna, you are the supreme. I accept that fully.
And all of you are saying, the great sages have also said it. And he says, sarvam etna dhritam manye, Enmaam buddhsi keshava. Actually, everything that you say is true about your position.
And now, after this, you will see, whether it is the 10th chapter, or the 11th chapter, or the 12th chapter, or the 13th chapter, or even the 17th chapter, Krishna, Arjuna is asking questions. And those questions, if you try to trace, it is not very easy to immediately see what is the correlation with what came before that. Just like, say, if a class is over.
And after the class is over, then the question and answer start. Now, different people will ask questions. And it is not necessary that one question and second question are to be related in general.
Even if one person is asking questions, it is not necessary that that person, each question they ask will be successively related. Now, we can find a correlation. That’s not a problem.
But, essentially, at this point, Arjuna is enlightened. Arjuna has accepted Krishna’s supremacy. Now, after this, whatever questions Arjuna asks is for loka-dhita-muna.
It is for the benefit of people in general. So, he asks about various concepts which are known in that time. But, their exact connection with Krishna, their integration within a devotional worldview is not known.
Sometimes, we may have a very… very impersonal conception of the past. What do I mean by impersonal conception? In the past also, people were persons. And people are persons, they all have their own ideas.
So, it is not that in the past, everybody was a devotee or a pure devotee. In the past also, there was diversity of beliefs, diversity of practises. There are the six systems of philosophy in Indian thought.
Sankhya, Yoga, Mimamsa, Vaisheshika, Vedanta, Jnaya. So, and these are the Astik, these are the theistic systems of thought. Then there is Buddhism, Jainism and there is Charvakism, which are considered to be Gnastik, which are considered to be non-theistic.
Here, theism is based not so much on whether they accept God or not. It is based on whether they accept Vedas or not. But, either way, the point I am making is there are many different systems of thought prevalent in that time.
So, then Arjuna asks Krishna, he has heard various terms. So, how do these terms make sense within a devotional worldview? That’s why at the start of the 13th chapter when he says, suddenly he is asking, प्रकृतिन्पुष्यम्जईवच्छेत्रक्षेत्रघ्यन्हेवच्यम् एतद्वेरितुनिच्छावि ज्यानन्ययं जुगेशवा Just please tell me about these six things. प्रकृतिन्पुष्यम्जईवच्छेत्रक्षेत्रघ्यन्हेवच्यम् एतद्वेरितुनिच्छावि ज्यानन्ययं जुगेशवा Knowledge is not just about gaining information.
It is also about making connections. Achieving integration. That means we may know a lot of things.
But they may just be disjointed items of information. But then we can integrate them into a proper worldview. Then that is something which actually uplifts us.
That connection and integration. This fact is here. How did you connect? This is the pattern.
So Krishna is not just giving Arjuna information. Krishna is actually helping him to achieve integration. Integration of the many facts that he does know.
It’s not that Arjuna did not know that we are all souls. In the first chapter itself he says that नरके इन्यु तम् वासो भवति इत्यनिशु शुरुमा I have heard that a person who commits sinful activity of destroying one’s dynasty that person will stay in hell forever. In 1.44-1.45 he talks about this.
Now obviously the body is going to die. So he is going to go to hell. There is something which will go to hell.
So that there is something non-physical which survives death. That is something which Arjuna also knows. But that is not the focus.
He is not connected to that. So there can be a conception of a soul or something which survives. But that may not be the focus.
See somebody can believe in a soul and still have a bodily conception of life. How is that possible? That is, yesterday I explained that how Christians have the idea that heaven is like a perpetual family reunion for them. You were there yesterday.
I spoke to all of you. Perpetual family reunion. So what is happening there? Oh our grandfather, grandmother, this sister, that cousin who died.
We will all meet them again. And they will all be in the same bodily forms. So in Bollywood also, tomorrow I will speak about reincarnation.
I will speak more about it at that time. In Bollywood also they often depict movies. Say hero and heroine are not able to meet and they die.
And next life they unite. And next life they are both looking exactly identical. So the hero looks the same, the heroine looks the same.
So basically there are double role of the hero and double role of the heroine. So this is simply a bodily conception of life extended to the next life. It is, you accept that there is something reincarnates, but they think the body is coming back.
So Arjuna, he had the idea that something lives on. But he had not connected the dots. The stress on the spiritual concept of life was not there.
So we can have a material conception of even the soul. When we think that the soul is simply like a add-on to the body. Like in some browser we have add-on.
Just put it on. That the soul is add-on to the body. I am the body and I have something called the soul.
So one devotee was giving a class in Russia. I said you are not your body. It was emphasised.
And one person asked a question. If I am not my body, then whose body am I? So the idea is I am the body. Obviously I am the body.
What else can I be? So if I am not my body, then whose body am I? So this is actually the bodily conception of life which is dragged into the spiritual realm also. So the point which I am giving this example for is that often spiritual understanding is not just a matter of gaining more information. It is often spiritual understanding is not so much matter of gaining more information.
It is about getting a better integration of what we do. So Arjuna wants to get this integrated worldview. And that’s why he asks, okay I have heard this term Kshetra Kshetra Jnana.
How do they make sense? Similarly, if we move forwards, in the 14th chapter, before that in the 12th chapter, suddenly he asks about impersonal impersonal. Which is better? There is nothing directly about personal impersonal going on over there. So now let’s come to our main thrust over here.
In the 10th chapter, after Arjuna accepts this conclusion, then he asks that katham vidyam aham yogis tam sada parichitayam keshu-keshu chabhaveshu chintyosi bhagavanmaya So, my dear lord, you have told that I should always think of you. The seeker should always think of you. katham vidyam How is it possible? What knowledge can we have by which we can always think of you? aham yogis tam sada parichitayam How can we always think of you? keshu-keshu chabhaveshu In what bhava? Bhava, the word is multivalent.
It’s like the word atma in the Bhagavad Gita, it can refer to the mind, it can refer to the intelligence, it can refer to the soul, it can refer to God. It is multivalent. So, in English, there are many words that are multivalent.
I gave a class in in Grand Rapids, one university in America. It was in Boston. And then after that one devotee came and told me, you killed it.
What did I kill? Actually, in the western terminology, you killed it is a way of saying you did very well. So, there are many words which are conventionally considered negative, they have not got a positive connotation. So, you killed it, that means suppose you go on a hunting match and you kill someone, as you hit the target, so you did very well.
So, another devotee, that was such a wicked class. Sir, what do you mean wicked class? So, the word wicked actually has a positive connotation. Wicked means very good.
So, not only that, there are many words which change their meanings. I was on a flight and somebody was, I was just reading a news, somebody was having newspaper. And it was, so it was, the headline was, now Virat Kohli’s lusty blows sealed the deal.
What do you mean lusty blows? No, so the word lusty is used for energetic. So, the idea is he hit lusty shots, he hit a lot of boundaries, lot of sixes and he won the match. So, now normally we think of lusty as a social sexual desire, but the idea is somebody lusty, that person is very energetic.
And that is the primary meaning. So, why I am giving all these three examples of killed it, wicked and lusty, to illustrate the point that words are multivalent. Words don’t always have the same meanings.
In different contexts, the words have different meanings. And that is why we cannot understand scripture simply by having a dictionary. Hey, somebody will say, I will just study Sanskrit, I will have a Sanskrit dictionary and understand scripture.
Yes, Sanskrit dictionary is helpful, but we have to understand the context in which the word is spoken. Somebody hears a news, killed it. Hey, you are a murderer.
Isn’t it? No, it’s a different context. So, like that the word bhava, Narayan has asked, keshu keshu cha bhava meshu chintyosi bhagavayimaya. So, bhava means that the word bhava can refer to bhavana, disposition or emotion.
But bhava can also refer to nature. And bhava here refers to, in this context, material nature. sadatat bhava bhavitaha, that nature one will attain based on one’s disposition.
bhava bhavitaha, whatever is one’s disposition will become one’s destination. That is what Krishna says there. So, now here Arjuna is asking Krishna the question, you said always think of you, but how can we think of you in this world? In what manifestations can we think of you? Most of us, we are going to, most of our life we are interacting with objects in this world.
We may have some times of withdrawal. Say for example when we are chanting, when we are worshipping the deities, even when we are say studying scripture or hearing scripture, at that time we can say that we are withdrawing our thoughts from the world and focussing them on directly on Krishna. But such times are going to be limited.
Most of the times we are going to interact with the world at a functional level. So, if we are to think of Krishna constantly, is it that we have to withdraw our thoughts from this world and think of Krishna? When Krishna says always think of me, what does it mean? Is it like Krishna is asking us to sort of split our consciousness? Half of your consciousness you think of your job, other half you think of me. In psychology this is considered like a split personality disorder.
It’s like a schizophrenia. You know the person is involved in two realities at the same time. The functional realities are out there and their own imaginary conception of what things are.
So, what is Krishna telling when he says always think of him? So, actually one is of course we withdraw our consciousness from the world and focus it directly on Krishna through devotional activities. Through directly devotional activities. But Krishna knows or Arjuna knows that he is going to function in the world as a warrior.
Most of the time he is going to function in the world at a practical level. So, how do we think of him at that time? That is the question. In what manifestations O Lord can we think of him? Keshu, Keshu, Chapaveshu, Chintyosi Bhagavanmaya.
O Lord, in what manifestations can I think of him? So, then Krishna talks about the whole list starting from 10.20 to around 10.38. But Krishna gives various items. aham atma gudakesha sarva-bhutasya yastatam amadhisya madhyam ca bhutanam andha eva ca He says, I am the indwelling supersoul in the hearts of all living beings. I am the beginning, the middle and end of all things.
And he says, bhruganam ca bhrugendroham I am among the animals. I am the king of the animals. bhrugendroham, I am the lion.
I am among the birds. I am the eagle. Among the mountains, I am Meru.
Among immobile objects, I am the Himalayas. Among the aquatics, I am the Jasara, Makaras, Charasmi. I am the shark.
Now, Krishna gives many examples of how he can be seen in this world. Now, what does this actually mean? So, is this an absolute literal equalisation? That those things are Krishna? Let’s look at it. 10.37-38 Krishna is listing various things.
At that time, he says, vishninaam vasudevasmi paandavaanam aham dhananjaya So, he says, among the Pandavas, I am Arjuna. Actually, at this point, the Acharyas explain that Krishna thinks, Arjuna thinks that among Pandavas, Krishna will say, I am Yudhishthir. Yudhishthir is the eldest.
Yudhishthir is Dharmaraj. Yes, he is Dharmaraj. But among all of them, Arjuna is the most devoted.
So, there is virtue or dharma and there is devotion or bhakti. So, dharma culminates in bhakti. So, Yudhishthir is dharmic and he is also a bhakta.
But he is focused on dharma which culminates in bhakti. Arjuna is simply a bhakta. So, in that sense, it’s a whole different subject, but at this stage, So, he says, paandavaanam aham dhananjaya Arjuna is surprised.
Krishna is saying, among the Pandavas, I am Arjuna. Now, Arjuna doesn’t say at this time, Krishna, we two are one. Shut up now.
No need to speak the Bhagavad Gita. I am also enlightened. He doesn’t say that.
Why not? Because he is understanding this is not an absolute equalisation. If Krishna and Arjuna were absolutely equated, then there is no need for Arjuna to be hearing from Krishna. Because whatever Krishna is speaking, Arjuna should already be knowing that.
So, this is meant to be not absolute equalisation. The vibhutis that are described in the chapter, they are not meant for absolute equalisation. They are actually meant for contextual redirection of consciousness.
Contextual redirection means that in every context, in every culture, there are certain things which people are attracted to. So, what Krishna is saying here is that whatever it is that you are attracted to, Krishna talks about this principle later. He says, naanthosati mamadivyanam Vibhuti naam parantapa Eshdesha dharmlok Actually, I am just speaking as a sample to you.
There is no end to my glories. Somebody may say, my God, you know, what ego? You say somebody is giving a class and somebody says, somebody is introducing a speaker. Actually, there is no end to my introduction.
What is this? What ego is this? So, you may feel, what is Krishna doing here? There is no end to my glories. Is he actually being egoistic? No, not at all. No.
If we feel that Krishna is being egoistic and saying that there is no end to my glories, before looking at his words, we can simply look at his actions. That same Krishna is taking the role of a chariot here. That’s the role of a chauffeur basically.
So, if Krishna had been filled with his own ego, his own arrogance, why would he take such a menial position? So, actually, what Krishna is telling over here is something much more significant. He is telling that the list of glories that he is giving over there, that is indicative, that is not exhaustive. That is indicative, it is not exhaustive.
So, that means that in different cultural contexts, there may be different people or different things that people may be attracted to. When I was in Canada, the devotees took me to the Niagara Falls. So, I gave a brief talk, video talk over there about how you can see Niagara Falls spiritually.
So, now when I was there, at that time literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people come from all over the world to see this Niagara Falls. Naturally, what is it? It is a waterfall, you know. But why is it that people are attracted? So, that attraction of that particular manifestation nature, that is also a manifestation of Krishna’s own efforts.
So, whatever it is that attracts us, its attractional potency manifests a spark of Krishna’s splendour. It manifests a spark of Krishna’s splendour. So, it may be say in India, cricket is immensely popular.
Some cricketers are worshipped almost as if they are gods. There is a West Indian cricketer, Bevan Richards, he says, if reincarnation is true, I would like to reincarnate as an Indian cricketer. Why? Because Indians worship their cricketers.
So, the thing is that in India there is so much captivation with cricket and cricketers. Now, why is that? Because those cricketers and that game of cricket, for Indians it is manifesting a spark of Krishna’s splendour. So, when we see this list, it’s not an exhaustive list, it’s an indicative list which describes that whatever is attractive in this world, that attractive object manifests a spark of Krishna’s own attractiveness.
So, in this way, while we are functioning in this world, we are naturally going to see things and while seeing things, there are certain things which are going to attract us. Some people may be very brilliant. Now, initially we start practising bhakti, we differentiate.
This person is a devotee, this person is a non-devotee. And sometimes we may demonise non-devotees. All non-devotees are fools and rascals.
Now, we have to understand carefully what is happening. Now, sometimes we have to, yes, those who are non-devoted to Krishna, those who are not spiritually minded, they are in a sense, unintelligent from the ultimate perspective. That they are not thinking about life’s ultimate purpose and whatever they are pursuing, that is going to be stripped away at the time of death for them or even before.
But that does not mean that they are not intelligent. In this world’s perspective, that doesn’t mean that they are not dedicated. That does not mean that they have no talents or good qualities.
They have it, but it is ultimately not of much use. So, when we see some unintelligent people having some good qualities, we see that, oh, this is also a manifestation of Krishna. That this person, say, that may be a very good, a very brilliant author, a very eloquent speaker.
They might be a very resourceful, very creative actor. Now, all these people, they have talent, they had commitment by which they became such established figures. Now, we appreciate that whatever is attractive, they are attracting millions of people.
How are they attracting? Because Krishna is manifesting a spark of His all-interactiveness through them. To the extent we understand this, that whatever is attractive in this world, it is manifesting a spark of Krishna’s splendour. To that extent, we start gaining an integrated vision of Krishna’s glory.
Not a segregated vision. Segregated vision means this whole world is bad and Krishna is good and I have to go to Krishna. Yes, that is true.
Ultimately, we want to attain Krishna’s glory. But Krishna’s glory is not just manifested in spiritual world. It is manifested in this world also.
So, we want an integrated appreciation of Krishna’s glory. Not just a segregated appreciation. That means that when, say, for example, we study a particular subject.
When we study science, say, I am an author, I study language. Now, in language, even in English language, there is so much beauty, there is so much art. If you go into science, if you study physics, if you actually associate with people who are studying physics very deeply, not just as a profession, but that is their life’s calling, then they have so much appreciation for it.
Now, they may be able to see, this is like this, this is like this, this is so much like this. So, now they are actually seeing, seeing a manifestation of God only. They may not know that what they are being attracted to is God, is a spark of God’s attractiveness.
But we can make that connection. Now, here there is an important thing to be cautious about. That everything attractive manifests a spark of Krishna’s splendour.
Actually, Prabhupada, in his book, On the Way to Krishna, says that all knowledge comes from Krishna, but knowledge doesn’t begin with Krishna. What does it mean, knowledge doesn’t begin with Krishna? It’s not that suddenly one day a person wakes up and I want to know God. Some people might have that kind of spiritual awakening.
But most of us, we think about the things around us. This big sky, these vast stars, this beautiful firmament, sky, stars and moon and everything. Where did this come from? So, we look at the world and then we think about its source, its sustenance.
That’s where our thoughts go towards God. So, now, we, at one level by sadhana bhakti, we try to think of Krishna directly. But most of the time we want to think about the world.
When we are thinking about the world, there are many attractive manifestations in this world. And not everything attractive in this world will direct our consciousness towards Krishna. Although, in principle, everything attractive comes from Krishna.
But everything attractive may not take us to Krishna. So, we have to be careful which manifestations of Krishna we focus on. So, an atheist may also be brilliant at writing, may also be good at logic.
And an atheist may make such arguments that if we hear those arguments, this person is so clever. And if this person doesn’t believe in God, what am I doing believing in God? But what happens is ultimately logic is a skill. So, just like say sword fighting is a skill.
Somebody is very good at sword fighting, that person may be a criminal. And somebody may be a police or a law protector. If the criminal is better at sword fighting than the law protector, the criminal may attack and wound and defeat the law protectors.
So, sword fighting is a skill. And that skill, it’s not necessary that those who are virtuous will necessarily have that skill better than those who are vicious. Similarly, logic and logical argumentation is a skill.
So, sometimes some atheists may be better at logical argumentation than some people who are theists. Now, what we need is, if somebody is a champion sword fighter, then an ordinary lay soldier should not be fighting with them. There should be another champion sword fighter who fights with them.
So, if we hear atheist arguments and we get bewildered, we should not think that oh atheism is right and I am wrong. We actually need to associate with devotees who are also skilled at logic. And not all devotees will be skilled at logic because it’s a skill.
Some will have it, some won’t have it. So, now the atheist logical skill also comes from Krishna. And the theist logical skill also comes from Krishna.
But seeing an exhibition of the atheist logical skill will make us shaken in our faith to God. Hearing the devotee logical skill will help us become strengthened in our faith to God. Faith of God.
So, when it is said, when Arjuna asks Krishna, how can I see you in the manifestations of this world? Now, the point is not that we go around and look at all the manifestations and think how can I see Krishna. No, we are focused on our service to Krishna. But while serving Krishna, we will interact with many things in this world, many people, we will see many things.
And then we have to intelligently decide how can we connect those manifestations to Krishna. So, the beauty of the sense objects also comes from Krishna. But that beauty, if we meditate on that, it won’t take us closer to Krishna.
It will take us away from Krishna. Therefore, we are cautious. We are cautious not in a judgemental sense thinking that the sense objects are bad.
No, it is we who have a contamination because of which we get overwhelmed. Now, Krishna is very clear in the Bhagavad Gita when Arjuna is discussing about kama, about lust. From 3.36 to 3.43 in the Gita.
So, there he talks about where lust is situated. And he says, Indriyanimano buddhir asyadishthanam uchyate. It is situated in the senses, in the mind and in the inner beings.
He does not say that the lust is situated in the sense objects. So, the sense objects may be the triggers of lust. They are not the causes of lust.
That means we see some image, we see some movie, we see some person. We may get sexually agitated by seeing that. But that is a trigger, that’s not a cause.
What is the difference between a trigger and a cause? In a gun, when the trigger is pressed, the bullet shoots out and may attack or kill a person. But the trigger alone will not, pressing the trigger will not kill the person, will not wound anyone unless there is a bullet inside. So, the cause of the death of the person is not the trigger, it is the bullet.
And the trigger pressing actually wounded the person because there is a bullet inside. So, like that we all may find that we are triggered by certain things. And we have to be careful that when certain things trigger us, then we have to be cautious and keep a distance from them.
But we can’t blame those things, we can’t blame them. So, the point which I am making is that sense of this beauty also comes from Krishna. But that will not take us towards Krishna.
So, then we understand intellectually that this also comes from Krishna. But if we try to perceive it, we will get injured. Therefore, we have to be careful, we have to be selective.
Which manifestations in this world can help me direct my consciousness towards Krishna? So, in Bhakti, Bhakti Yoga is not just an isolated practise. It is an integrated culture. So, Bhakti Yoga is not just an isolated practise.
This child Hare Krishna. No, it’s an integrated culture. Integrated culture means in this culture there is music, there is art, there are a whole variety of things which we can do.
So, for example, if somebody likes to sing, then instead of going to a non-devotee to learn how to sing, if there are devotees who are expert at singing and we learn from them, then what happens? We appreciate their singing but they are appreciating Krishna. By our appreciation of them, we get connected more with Krishna. So, eventually as the Bhakti wisdom, as the Bhakti culture expands, what should happen is that whatever is attractive in this world, whatever people are attracted to, we should have those manifestations within the scope of Bhakti.
That means people like to see big buildings. And say if in a city the biggest building is a temple, then people come there not to see Krishna, they come to see the building. But in being attracted to the building, what happens to this building? Who is staying here? God.
God must be a really big person. Let me know who God is. So, that way as devotees what we try to do is that which is attractive in this world, we try to offer it to Krishna.
So, we try to offer it to Krishna, we try to glorify Krishna in that. So, in Indian history this Alankar, Alankar is ornaments, literally ornaments. They are so beautifully used for glorifying Krishna.
And there is a book, you know, in English there is a word called Palindrome. Palindrome is basically if you read the word the other way, it was sort of the same. So, Napoleon Bonaparte when he was imprisoned in Elba, Elba was an island and he was imprisoned.
So, he said, Able was I, ere I saw Elba. So, now if you turn this word around, it means the same thing. Able was I, ere I saw Elba.
So, Elba the opposite of that is Able. Saw the opposite, if you read it reverse, it is was. And ere, if you read it reverse, it is again erode.
So, this is a palindrome. So, now this is for people who are a little more literary orientated, this kind of figures of speech are very beautiful. So, there is a poet who has written the whole Ramayana in such a way that if you read it from front to back, it is Ramayana.
If you read it from back to front, it is Mahabharata. It is superb, you know. To just make one sentence palindrome is difficult.
You have to make a whole book which is a palindrome. It is incredible. So, what have they done over there? They have actually used the artistic creativity in devotional service.
So, there are many manifestations like this. So, the idea is as devotees, we do not have to reject the attractive things in this world. First, if we can, we see their connection with Krishna and we deepen our attraction to Krishna.
If this is so attractive, how much more Krishna can be attractive. And then knowing that people are going to be attracted to these things, we try to offer the most attractive things to Krishna. So, whether it is art, whether it is music, whether it is architecture, whether it is literature, whatever it is that is attractive, we use the most attractive things and offer them to Krishna.
And that way we can move closer and closer to Krishna and inspire others to move closer and closer to Krishna. So, Krishna is God who exists beyond this world. But Krishna is God who manifests himself even in this world.
And that is the essential principle of the Lord’s manifestation and their deep meaning. I will conclude with this. The deity is called as Archa Avataar, Archa Vigraha or Archa Avataar.
Avataar means one who descends. So, Krishna is transcendental. He cannot be perceived with our senses.
Naaham prakashya sarvasya. Yogamaya samavrta muroyam naabhijanati lokomam ajamoham. In 7.18, Krishna says, I cannot be perceived by anyone.
But that same Krishna, he very mercifully manifests as a deity. So, I have written the book, Idol Worship or Ideal Worship. So, there are people who are the Abrahamic religions, why do you worship the stone images? So, actually we are not worshipping stone.
We are actually worshipping God who is chosen to mercifully manifest in stone. So, one of the prominent Acharyas in the Shri Sampradaya is a descendant of Ramanujacharya. And he gives the example, Pilailokacharya.
He gives the example of a small child is walking on the street. And that child sees an elephant. This child has a desire, I want to touch the elephant’s head.
A child is so small, elephant is so big. How can the child touch the elephant’s head? But if that elephant sits down and moves his head down. Then the child can touch the elephant’s head.
So, like that he says, this Jeeva is finite and the Lord is infinite. Ishwara is infinite. So, how can the Jeeva know the Ishwara? How can the Jeeva touch the Ishwara? How can the Jeeva connect to the Ishwara? So, the Ishwara who is like the elephant sits down.
That means he comes down to our level, manifestly. So, the infinite becomes finite. Just so that the finite soul can access the infinite.
So, even when he is finite, he is in finite seeming form, he is still infinite. He still has infinite potency. Krishna was sitting on the lap of mother Yashoda.
She asked him to open his mouth. And she saw the whole universe in his mouth. So, even when Krishna is within the universe, the universe is within Krishna.
That is the omnipotence of God. Even when he seems to be one small thing in the universe, actually universe is one small thing within him. That is the omnipotence of Krishna.
So, it is not that Krishna is limited or we are ascribing a limited being as, we are thinking that a limited being is God. No. That unlimited being God manifests in a limited seeming form to help us limited beings access him.
So, the whole principle of Krishna’s mercifulness manifests as his eminent accessibility. So, he makes himself accessible to us so that we can connect with him. So that we can relish the joy of remembering him.
And by relishing that higher taste, he can break free from the lower tastes that captivate us in this world. I will summarise. I spoke on theme of how to see God in this world.
And one way of seeing God is that we just withdraw from the world and discuss about his glories. Krishna says that his glories are so relishable that they can enlighten even the enlightened. That’s 10.9. Now, at this point in Chatushloka Gita gets over.
Arjuna has become enlightened. His doubts, personal doubts are resolved. He has accepted Krishna as his guru.
After that the questions that he asks are for people in general to understand. That’s why we may not always be able to trace a specific question with connection between one question and the next question. Because Arjuna is taking the various concepts that were known at that time in different schools of thought.
And Arjuna is asking Krishna to show them all in an integrated devotional worldview. So, gaining spiritual knowledge is not just about gaining new information. It is about getting better integration of what we know.
It’s like some people may have the idea of a soul but they may just think of the soul as an add-on to the body. And they think that when in reincarnation means come back in the same body again. The same relationships.
So, that is a material conception of the soul. So, it’s not an integrated worldview. So, integration means in this context Arjuna asks how can I think of you in this world? In that connection for the word bhava, I explain it as multivalent.
It can refer to emotion. It can also refer to nature. So, I discuss various words like atma is multivalent in the Bhagavad Gita.
In today’s context, the words kill it, wicked, lusty, they have acquired. Secondary meaning which have become primary among some sermons. So, now Arjuna asks Krishna how can I think of you in this world? Krishna says whatever the attractor in this world, see that as a manifestation of, as a spark of maya that attracts.
And that means that different people in different cultural context will find different things attractive. Whatever it is that they find attractive, whether it is a scenic beautiful place like Niagara Falls or whether it is a sport that triggers immense passion in people like cricket, we see that attractiveness of that comes from Krishna. So, when Krishna says that my glories are unlimited, he is not saying that in an egoistic sense.
He is simply saying that the list he has given is not exhaustive, it is integrated. When Krishna says I am, I am loin amongst animals or I am the, I am Mount Meru among mountains, he is not talking about absolute monuments. He is talking about, about redirection, about identification by which you can do redirection.
That’s why when Krishna says I am Pandavas, I am Arjuna. Arjuna doesn’t say we two are one. He is saying that he is talking in principle of making the connection between the attractive and the all attractive.
And so, now intellectually we understand that different people will have different attractive things. Some people may be brilliant logicians. So, those who are not spiritually minded, they are ultimately may not be intelligent.
But intermediately by functioning in this world, they may have skills, they may have intelligence. They may have some manifestation, some spark of Krishna’s all attractiveness. So, we appreciate that.
We don’t deny that. But at the same time, we have to select whether exposing ourselves to that, that spark of Krishna will take us towards Krishna or will take us away from Krishna. So, an atheist’s logical expertise may take us away from Krishna.
A devotee’s logical expertise will take us towards Krishna. So, we don’t go about in this world looking at various attractive manifestations to see how they can connect with Krishna. Rather we focus on our service to Krishna.
But while serving Krishna, we will naturally look at various things in the world. We encounter various things. So, we can try to see the connection of those attractive things with Krishna.
And that way we can be Krishna conscious even while we are functioning in this world. So, being Krishna conscious does not mean having like a schizophrenia with half brain thinking of Krishna, half brain thinking of worldly things. Now, while functioning in this world, we see the world’s connection with Krishna.
So, Krishna’s transcendence is what ensures his purity. Krishna’s immanence is what ensures his accessibility. And the various manifestations of Krishna including the Deity manifestation, they ensure that he is eminently accessible.
This is an elephant, sits down so that a child can touch. Similarly, the unlimited Lord manifests in a limited form so that he can access it. And the more we can see Krishna as the source of everything attractive and remember him thus, the more we can relish the higher taste of absorption in him.
And we can become free from the lower taste of being captivated by the objects of this world thinking of them not as independent sources of pleasure but seeing them as pointers to Krishna. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Are there any questions or comments? Yes. What is the difficulty? What is the question exactly? How can we say that everything attractive is coming from Krishna? We can simply ask where does this attractiveness come from? Somebody is brilliant, is it? Intellectually brilliant. Somebody is physically attractive.
In the Ramayana, when Ravana approaches Sita, he thinks of this as a typical sexual conquest. So, normally when a boy wants to approach a girl, what does he do? You know, he tries to praise that girl’s beauty. Then he tries to talk about how wealthy I am.
And then he derides his competitors. So, Ramayana tries to do the same three things. He starts speaking of Sita’s beauty.
Now, when he says that, one interesting point he says is Oh Sita, you are so beautiful that I think after the creator made you, he must have retired. He must have retired. When I read that long ago, when I was 25-30 years ago, I had seen some Hindi movie or Hindi movie song.
What is that? Tarif karu kya uski jisne tumhe banaya. So, what is happening over here? One is saying that okay, this person is so beautiful. Now, that person, they may have done some facial makeup or things like that.
But you know, some people are just born beautiful. That’s not something which they have done. It’s a gift given to them.
So, what is happening with Ravana? He is acknowledging that this beauty is actually not made by me. It’s not even made by me. It’s made by the creator.
He is thinking the creator has made this for my enjoyment. So, he is not seeing the connection with the creator. He is seeing it only for his gratification.
So, when somebody is very beautiful, when somebody is very clever, somebody is very strong, somebody is very skilled, we understand that all those attractive features are gifts given by Krishna to those people. Why are they given? It’s based on their past karma. Now, it depends on them how they are going to use it now.
So, they may use it positively, they may use it negatively. But when we see that those attractive things are coming from Krishna in the sense that those are gifts given to them by Krishna. Just like if somebody sings very well.
Now, if we did a microscopic study of their voice box, it’s not that their voice cords are differently constructed entirely. It’s not that they made some special element. They are made of the same component as our voice cords are made.
But they have that ability. They sing so nicely. So, how do they do that? They have trained their voice cords, that’s true.
They are practising. But still, there is some innate gift that is there. So, where exactly is that gift coming from? We might find some material mechanism to correlate that.
But ultimately, when they were in their mother’s womb, they were not adjusting their throat cords to make it better. Isn’t it? So, it’s a gift. So, whatever is attractive that we have, we may have trained and worked to develop it.
But we also are given it. And that gift is what is coming from Krishna. That’s how we can see attractive objects and having their attractiveness coming from Krishna.
Any other questions? Yes. Yeah, correct. So, how is Prahlad Maharaj seeing Krishna? Yes, he is seeing Vishnu.
He is seeing him directly. Because for him, his heart is filled with Vishnu. And he says, Krishna maya jagat.
Everywhere he sees Krishna. That’s why he says, in this pillar there is Krishna. Is there Vishnu in this pillar? Yes, he is there.
So, it’s not just a conceptual understanding that he has. Vishnu is there. Actually, he is able to see him.
So, that is a very high level of manifestation. Now, we cannot prematurely think of it like that. We have to function at our level.
So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also says, तावर जंगं ना देखी, ना देखी दार्यमूर्ति सर्वत्र होई, जिज़ा इश्ट देवस पूर्ति But wherever he saw, he did not see objects. He saw manifestations of Krishna. He would say, wherever he would see a river, he would think this is Yamuna.
Wherever he would see a forest, he would think this is Vrindavan. Wherever he would see a hill, he would think this is Govardhan. But this is, because his consciousness is permeated with Krishna, he is able to see Krishna everywhere.
See, things connect with Krishna everywhere. So, now, even Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, was he seeing Krishna directly everywhere? Not necessarily. Sometimes, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would be talking with someone, and suddenly, the devotee says, he has disappeared.
Where has he gone? They see him running far away, running in that direction. They go mad. They go there.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu screams. I saw Krishna behind this tree. He was playing a flute and he was calling me.
And I ran to him, but he disappeared. So, even for him, although he is always thinking of Krishna, sometimes when he sees Krishna directly, sometimes he is just absorbed in thoughts of Krishna. So, Krishna consciousness is not a monolithic thing.
Krishna consciousness does not have to have only one form. It is not necessary also that thinking about Krishna in his personal form is necessarily higher than seeing Krishna in nature. It can be higher, but the important thing is not how we are seeing Krishna, the important thing is how we are serving Krishna.
So, Prabhupada, the hero could have been in Vrindavan, and he could have been just chanting Radhe Radhe Shyam Shyam, and he could have been absorbed in pure thoughts about Krishna, his pastimes and all. But Prabhupada left Vrindavan and travelled all over the world. And he had to interact with so many things in this world.
No, he had to interact with people who were completely materialistic. When Prabhupada met the hippies, their only regulative principle was to break all regulative principles. He had to interact with people like that.
Somehow he had to see the spark of interest for Krishna in that, in those people and span that spark. So, the important thing is not so much that we visualise Krishna’s personal tribhanga form. If we can, that’s fine, but the important thing is how are we serving Krishna.
And whichever vision is most suited for serving Krishna, that is what we adopt. So, if our service is to cook for Krishna, then we see the kitchen as a manifested Radharani’s kitchen. We see ourselves as servants of Radharani.
And we try to see Krishna in the precision with which we cook. If my service is to write for Krishna, then I see Krishna in the way I can use words to glorify Krishna, to beautify Krishna. Just as say, this is the pujari on the altar, may decorate the deities with beautiful flowers.
So, a devotee writer tries to use words in a way a pujari uses flowers. We try to speak Krishna’s glories using the precise words that reveal his glory in a most beautiful, artistic, appealing way. So, we focus not so much on seeing Krishna in his personal form directly.
We focus on seeing Krishna in a way that enhances our service to Krishna. Any other questions? That Lord Ram, how is Lord Ram’s treating of Mother Sita justified? The whole mood of the Ramayana is a mood of sacrificing one’s own pleasure for a higher cause. So, Ram himself manifests that mood where he does not demand his right.
I should have the kingdom. I am the eldest son. What wrong have I done? Why are you sending me to the forest? Ram’s mood is sacrifice.
Sacrifice of one’s rights for a higher cause. The ashram, he also sacrifices. It’s not that he is eager to send Ram away.
Because he has given his word, he is obliged to do that. So, he sacrifices the pleasure of having his beloved son with him so that he could honour the word that he has given to him. So, the whole epic has that mood of sacrificing one’s own pleasure for a higher cause.
And in that mood of sacrifice, the emphasis is not on rights. The emphasis is not on rights. This is my right and I will get it.
That’s not the mood. The mood is what will serve a higher cause. And willingness to sacrifice one’s rights for a higher cause.
And eventually when Sita comes back with Ram and there are some people who accuse her. Now she is innocent and she has already proved her innocence through the Agni Pariksha. So, it’s not a question of rights at all.
It’s not a question of what is right or wrong. So, Ram is not at all happy. He is distressed, he is devastated with what he has to do.
Now why does he have to do that? There are conflicting duties. We all have our dharmas but sometimes we have different dharmas, different duties based on different situations. So, Dashrath for him, his dharma as a pita, as a father and his dharma as a husband, they conflicted with each other.
And in that particular situation he felt honouring his word to Kaikeyi was more important than giving the keeram to Ram. So, when two duties collide, that is an ethical conflict. Moral conflict means one option is moral, the other is immoral.
Ethical conflict means there are two options, both of them are moral. But which is the higher morality? So, in this case when Sita was being accused, it was not just that she was accused of unjustity. Ram was being accused of being attached to a woman who is unjust and that attachment, that attachment was something which would have decreased his citizen’s capacity to respect him and to follow him.
So, Ram had his duty towards his wife to protect him. And he had his duty to his citizen to live in exemplary way. Now, so he at that time was conflicted.
Which dharma to follow? So, now because it’s a very different cultural context. So, we may not understand what is wrong with standing by your wife if she is being accused. But in that context, the point was the more he would have defended Sita, the more he would have appeared attached.
So, Ram was concerned about his duty as a king. His raj dharma and his pati dharma, the two came in conflict. And he had to choose his raj dharma.
But he did not abandon his pati dharma entirely. He did not abandon his duty as a husband. Because although in a sense Sita was banished, but it was not exactly banishment of the same kind which Ram himself had abandoned.
When Ram had been banished, he had been outside the kingdom, in the forest, with the animals. With no home, with no protection. Sita was still in Ram’s kingdom.
She was taken by Lakshman to the outskirts of Valmiki Dashram. And she was told, you can go and stay there. Sita was shattered.
But even Sita understood what Ram is doing. She was devastated, that’s natural. But at the same time, she did not blame Ram.
She said, this is what you feel is the best thing to do in an institution, I accept it. So, it is not allowed. We can see that for Ram himself, he was not just being opportunistic.
Sometimes, you know, you say, some people may just want to get rid of a wife so that they can marry again. But Ram, he refused. He refused to marry again.
Even the Brahmins told him, you have to do Yajnas, you have to have a wife with you. Yajman is a Surya Grastha. Grastha means the husband and wife are together.
So, Ram, he actually made an effigy, a deity of Sita. And placed that next to her, next to him by performing ablutions. This means that he personally did not reject Sita or even consider Sita to be contaminated with anything.
In Yajna sacrifices, actually, everything is meant to be very pure. So, if Sita were unchaste or even he had considered Sita unchaste, he would not have put her effigy over there. The fact that he put her image over there and performed sacrifice with her indicated that he was still devoted to her.
So, it was only circumstance that forced him to make that choice. So, if we make this, if what is essentially a sacrifice, we make it into an issue of justice. That means, Ram was so unjust to Sita and in Indian culture women are always treated unfairly.
He is completely missing out on the mood of the epic. The mood of the epic is a mood of voluntary sacrifice. It is not a mood of imposed injustice and forced fighting for one’s rights in the midst of injustice.
So, Sita’s, Lord Ram sending Sita away is the culmination of the mood of sacrifice in the Ramayana. The whole Ramayana, the major fight is to bring Ram and Sita together. And their time together would have been the time of the greatest celebration.
But Ram demonstrates the ultimate sacrifice and so does Sita. So, it’s not a matter of fairness or unfairness. It’s a matter of sacrificing what is one’s right for a higher cause.
And both Ram and Sita voluntarily do the sacrifice. So, instead of seeing Ram as a victimiser and Sita as a victim, Ram was so unfair to Sita. We need to see, actually if you want to compare Ram to anyone, the best person to compare Ram to is Dashrath.
When Dashrath sent Ram to the forest and when Ram sent Sita to the forest, both of them are in a similar situation. They didn’t want to do it. They would have tried their best to avoid it.
But they were compelled to do it because of a higher, because of a dharma. Because of devotion to a higher dharma. So, we don’t see Dashrath as a victimiser and Ram as a victim.
We see Dashrath and Ram both as gallantly sticking to the call of duty even when it calls for an immense sacrifice. Similarly, Ram and Sita, they stick to the call of duty even when it calls for an immense sacrifice. So, both of them are sacrificers.
It’s not that Ram is a victimiser and Sita is a victim. Both of them are voluntarily sacrificing for a higher cause. And it is not that this is a standard by which any man can reject any woman.
Not at all. That same Ram comes as Krishna. And when he comes as Krishna, at that time, there is a demon Bhaumasur.
And this Bhaumasur, he has abducted many princesses. And he is planning to ravish them. He is waiting for an astrologically auspicious moment to commit this inauspicious activity of ravishing.
So, that is his perverse mentality. And then Krishna goes and rescues them. And then he releases them.
And then they say that we have been abducted by him. We will be accused of being fallen women because we have stayed in another man’s house. So, he asks Krishna, what do you want? Please accept us.
And Krishna accepts them not just as maid servants who are to be accommodated in some corner of his house. He makes them all his queens. So, Ram is demonstrating the ethos of sacrifice.
The principle of sacrifice. And that same lord as Krishna is demonstrating the ethos, the virtue of compassion. Of inclusion.
Of social inclusion. But people, women who are considered fallen, he includes them, not only includes them, he gives them extremely respectable position of being the queens of one of the most powerful kings of that time. So, that’s why we can’t stereotype or make any blanket value judgement based on one incident of how Ram deals with Sita.
It’s a profound example of selfless sacrifice for higher cause. So, there is a whole article on my website, thespiritualscientist.com, why did Ram abandon Sita? In case you want to share with your friends or whatever, article is available. By doing our surveys, is it necessary to always see everything in connection with Krishna? Or should we just do the surveys like other people? There is a, you know, Krishna consciousness is not like digital logic, one or zero.
It is analogue. Our consciousness of Krishna becomes more and more as we progress more and more in bhakti. So, initially when we are practising bhakti, so, Krishna is in the background of our consciousness.
And we ourselves are at the foreground. I am doing this. So, first time say, first time I gave class, maybe 20 years ago or something.
So, I was very conscious, I am speaking in class, how is my tilak, what are people thinking about me, am I pronouncing it properly? All these externals are very important. But as we keep serving Krishna, what happens is the world and the specific thing that we are doing in the world, we are aware of them. But they start going to the background.
And Krishna starts coming to the foreground. So, eventually, you know, who I am speaking to or the fact that I am doing public speaking is not as important that I am speaking to Krishna. So, for Srila Prabhupada, this is for, Harisharikrao writes that whether Prabhupada was speaking to two or four people during a private darshan or whether he was speaking to thousand people in a bandhal programme, Prabhupada would speak with the same enthusiasm, same energy because he was speaking about Krishna for Krishna’s pleasure.
So, similarly, the more we start practising bhakti, the externals don’t matter so much. So, whether I am speaking, whether a person is speaking in Kharagpur or Mumbai or London or Canada or wherever, we are speaking about Krishna. What we are speaking about is more important than where we are speaking.
Whether we are travelling by a bullock cart or by a aeroplane, that doesn’t matter as much as why we are travelling. So, like that, gradually as we keep practising bhakti, the externals we are aware but they go in the background. And the purpose of why we are doing it, that comes more and more in the foreground.
So, it is not necessary that in every activity that we are doing, we have to consciously strive to think about Krishna. It was not that when Arjuna was fighting the Kurukshetra war, he was, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. He was not shooting arrows and saying Hare Krishna.
He was completely focused on how to fight, how to shoot the arrows, how to kill the enemies. But, so what was the Krishna connection at that time? Krishna connection was an intention. He was fighting the war for Krishna’s sake.
So, say if we are discussing some scientific arguments on reincarnation, existence of God or science and spirituality, then it is not necessary that throughout we are always thinking about Krishna. We may be deep in the science of that subject. But our intention is to help share Krishna’s glory instead.
Having said that, so that the first level of connection is primarily with intention. Having said that, if we are regularly encountering certain manifestations, if we are regularly doing a particular activity, then it is worthwhile to take some time out to acquire a more spiritual vision of that activity. So, for example, if you are dealing with money a lot, then it is worthwhile to take some time out to read about Lakshmi Devi and how Lakshmi Devi manifests as money.
How money can be used in Krishna’s service. So, if you are doing a specific service on a regular basis, spending some time to spiritualise our vision of that service is very helpful. Say for example, when I am writing, then I am, when I am writing, I am writing about Krishna, but I am not really thinking about Krishna.
So, I am thinking, is this punctuation right? Is this the word right word? Is this too long? Is this too short? Is this an easy enough word? Is this a tough enough word? I am to some extent thinking about the technicalities of writing. But then, if I associate with other devotees also who are writers, and they have been practising bhakti for many years, they have been writing for Krishna for decades, then I see how they see that kind of Krishna. They say, whenever I get an idea, for me that was an idea, I want to write an article about it.
But then, whenever one devotee writes an article, whenever I get an idea, the first thing I do, I thank Krishna. So, for me when the idea comes, the first thing is, I will tap the idea and write. But then, the Krishna connection which I got by associating with devotees, all this idea, where did it come from? It just came.
It’s ultimately coming from Krishna. So, remember Krishna, thank Krishna for that. So, like that, if you are doing a specific service on a regular basis, associating with those who have been doing it in a devotional mood for a long time can help us to see Krishna more in that sense.
Because when you keep doing something regularly, there is a tendency to become mechanical in it. So, reading about how that service is spiritual, associating with those who are seeing it spiritually, that helps us to infuse spiritual consciousness into that service. But we don’t have to stop the service till we get spiritual consciousness.
We continue the service and try to infuse it with spiritual intentions and with spiritual connections as much as possible. Our primary purpose is to do the service. And devotional service, devotion is the adjective, service is the noun.
Means we want to do service and we want to be devotional. But even if we can’t be devotional, just do the service. Gradually the devotional intention will come as we keep doing.
Okay. So, can non-living things be delivered? Now, we have to see what was the exact context. As far as I know, that comes in Harinam Chintamani, the conversation between Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his associates.
So, it can come in other places also. But the point is, he is not talking about non-living things. He is talking about non-moving things.
There are two categories of existence. Thavara and Jangama. The non-moving and the moving.
So, those who are moving beings, you know, human beings have come to temple. Even there are cows and dogs. They can also be, they may also be able to… Because they are moving, they may come somewhere and they may get some connection to Krishna.
What about non-moving things? Some grass somewhere, there is some tree, some forest, some shrubs. So, at that time it is said, they cannot come to where Krishna is manifesting. But the response that is given is, when the devotees go out on Tirthankara, they chant the holy names.
Then those sacred sound vibrations go and touch and transform and elevate even the non-moving living beings. So, when the non-moving living beings by their karma cannot come to Krishna, then Krishna through his devotees goes to them and especially the holy name is the most portable manifestation of Krishna. The most like a portable laptop, easily carry.
Holy name, deities we can’t very easily carry. But the holy name is the most portable manifestation of Krishna. We can carry the holy name anywhere and manifest Krishna there and whoever is in the vicinity will be benefited by it.
This is the last question. So, if the Guruji’s parampara is always present, then how could monism become so influential? Did Shakaracharya encounter any Vaishnavas also? Krishna usually acts in this world through his representatives. And the manifestation of Krishna in every age is based on the calibre of his representatives.
So, when Sri Prabhupada was asked, how much would the Krishna consciousness movement spread? He gave different answer at different time. One time it depends on the devotees. How much they spread it, they took the responsibility to spread that much.
Now, even in the bhakti tradition, what is why I go to Shankaracharya. Even after Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared, there were some successors of his, Krishnaji, Prakul, Baldevudiya, Bhushan. But after that there was Dharma Sivlani.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s teachings of pure spiritual love for Krishna were obscured. And then there was Appasampradaya, Sahajiyas and others who distorted the meaning of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. So much so that when Bhaktivinoda Thakur wanted to understand Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s teachings, culturally he never knew about Gaurachandra because that was then Bengali.
But he wanted to know about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s teachings, he wanted to read Chaitanya Charitambud. He had to search for years to find a copy of Chaitanya Charitambud. So what does that mean? That means that at that time, whoever devotees were there, they were not so prominent.
So that’s why other forces became prominent. So similarly, at certain times, it may be that certain schools of thought, its proponents may be more charismatic, may be more influential, may have far greater appeal. So just the prevalence of a philosophy does not prove its validity.
Just because it’s widespread, that does not mean it is true. It simply indicates that its propagators are vigorous. So even among the bhakti tradition, there have been times when the bhakti saints have been prominent and there are other times when they are not such prominent saints.
Now why that happened? It’s not for us to judge that at that time the devotees were not so dedicated. We see it that this is the nature of the material world. Sometimes there is dharmasya glani, that sometimes the truth is lost.
And then rather than thinking that oh those devotees were not good enough, that’s why the truth got lost. We see, we focus on those devotees who actually rejuvenate the tradition, who again re-establish the pure teaching and we appreciate their sacrifice in doing so. So Krishna sometimes allows such things to happen so that those devotees who restore the tradition, their glory is established.
So, if Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur’s mission had spread far and wide and had continued after his departure also, at one level it would have been wonderful. Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur’s legacy would have continued and so many people would have benefited. But then for whatever reason, we don’t judge his disciples.
We just understand that it didn’t spread. And then Srila Prabhupada had to practically start from scratch. And started from scratch and he was phenomenally successful.
With starting from utterly obscure background and that’s how Krishna glorifies him. So, we see always from a devotional perspective that the nature of the world, sometimes pure knowledge can be lost. And rather than blaming those people during whose existence the knowledge got lost, we focus on the glory of those who restore that knowledge.
Thank you very much. Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai. Srimad Bhagavad Gita Ki Jai.
Jai Gaur Premanandai.