How to see our past in a Krishna conscious way 2 – Dhruva pastime analysis

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This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
So today we continue our discussion on the theme of how do we look at our past from a spiritual perspective. So in this verse, Dhruva Maharaj is lamenting that anatmyam, that I was so soulless we could say or my knowledge was so bereaved, was so devoid of my spiritual self-understanding that I was obsessed with material benefits, although I approached the Lord who can give eternal benefit, but still I sought something temporary from Him. And in one sense, he is lamenting his past desires and Prabhupada talks about how as devotees, he is a strong word, we should have devotees prohibited to have material aspirations and he quotes anyabhilashita shunyam and then he also talks about how as devotees, we should try to focus on, otherwise we will have to lament like Dhruva Maharaj.
If we don’t learn to overcome, to become free from material desires. So I’ll talk about this theme. Yesterday I talked about when we look at our past, there are two ways of looking at it.
One is just a waste of time and I wish I had come to bhakti earlier. The other is my past prepared me for my Krishna Consciousness and we discussed multiple reasons why we can look at the past from that perspective. Because if we are ordained to see Krishna everywhere and the potential for Krishna even in new people who are coming to Krishna’s lotus feet, then why not see the potential for Krishna in our own lives in the way we actually came to Krishna.
And second is that our past has still informed us. That means our desires may have changed and also our foundational values in terms of where we want to go and who we are, that may have changed. But our functional values are still the same, we still have the same bodily car and largely function the way it is according to its psychophysical nature.
So we do bring a lot of, lot from our past into our Krishna Conscious understanding and practises. So to understand that is always helpful. And then thirdly, it is not only we want to see how our past is colouring our understanding and practise of Krishna Consciousness, but also how our past can be a resource in our practise of Krishna Consciousness.
So then we can build on the past that we have. In some ways we obviously do, if we have certain language skills, if we have certain technical skills or certain, we use them in Krishna’s service. But also in terms of our nature, our virtues, we could use whatever we have in Krishna’s service.
And we concluded by talking about, the second part was about how we need humility but not self-pity. The self-pity means we feel, we keep feeling sorry for ourselves because we think in this context, my past was so terrible, I still have so many conditions. What is the hope for me? But humility means that my past was terrible.
But if Krishna lifted me even from that past, then Krishna will not abandon me now. So self-pity is centred on the self, whereas humility is centred on some reality bigger than the self. And in that sense, humility is conducive for Krishna Consciousness.
So today, I’ll focus on the topic over here of desires, that how do we deal with the desires from our past. And at one level, as Prabhupada says over here that as devotees, we shouldn’t have worldly desires, which is true. But how do worldly desires come from and where, what can we do? How much can we control that? So let’s look at this.
There is sustainable renunciation. So for renunciation to be sustainable, so we know there is one way is we hear about the futility of worldly desires and we develop renunciation by that. Oh, you know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to be involved in this world.
And another is we experience the sweetness of bhakti and after experiencing and the emptiness of worldly pleasures, we develop the renunciation. So when this happens, actually for us, this is what is sustainable. For many of us or for a few of us, when we hear the Krishna Consciousness philosophy itself is so powerful that that triggers some renunciation.
So we may want to reject the world and just completely embrace Krishna’s Lotus Feet and offer ourselves to Krishna. And that’s good at one level, but whether that can be sustained throughout our life, that is difficult. So traditionally, there are two kinds of renunciates, there is, there is naishtik and upakurvan.
Naishtik is the hearer and they renounce the world, upakurvan is the hearer, they understand to some extent, but they realise, they need to realise by actual experience. So in one sense, hearing and learning is the best. But just because something is better in principle, doesn’t mean it’s better for us in practise.
In principle, we could say hearing and learning about the nature of the world and renouncing the world is good. But for most of us, that is rare. So in one sense, all devotees develop renunciation.
Now without renunciation, we cannot follow the four regulative principles. Without renunciation, we cannot actually follow the daily discipline of sadhana. So in one sense, without certain basic level of renunciation, it will be very difficult to practise bhakti.
But what we’re talking about, what level of renunciation is possible for everyone. So we could talk at one level about the renounced order, or you could also talk about different levels of renunciation within the particular ashram we are in. So even if somebody takes up the brahmacharya ashram, it’s not that all brahmacharys are equally austere.
And when somebody is in grahastha life, not all grahasthas are equally lacking in austerity. Actually all ashrams require austerity. So the point is that even if we say a higher level of renunciation, say with respect to money or with respect to sensual pleasure or whatever, these things won’t give pleasure, just give it up.
So yes, that might be there. But in principle, it might be better in practise. We all have a past.
And in general, a high level of renunciation in terms of simply realising the futility of the world is not very easy. So in one sense, when did he realise this, if we go back at one level, he experienced the sweetness of bhakti, he experienced the sweetness of the Lord, he beheld the Lord in front of him. Before that, he had been chanting the Lord’s name, he had been remembering the Lord.
And now after that immense austerity, which all purified him, then he beheld the Lord and he realised how relishable he is and how empty and pale everything is in contrast with that. So now how does that experience come? Now, for many of us, it requires a sustained practise of bhakti. And when the sustained practise of bhakti is there, then as the higher taste develops, so as we just go through life, both things happen.
We realise the sweetness of, if you’re practising bhakti, you realise the sweetness of bhakti. And if you’re going through life, and if we are even a little bit introspective and thoughtful, we slowly start thinking, you know, what more is there to life? Generally, many people, unless they are like obsessed with their profession, by the time they come to 40, 45, 50, maybe 55, they start thinking there should be more to my life than just earning money and winning bigger contracts or getting bigger positions. What’s more than life? So to some extent that comes naturally.
And just because we have heard some Krishna conscious philosophy doesn’t mean we can artificially accelerate this process. So, I talked about this yesterday. So, if we find that, okay, I’ve heard the philosophy, but still I’ve not been able to overcome the desires.
So, what do we do? Either we can fall into self-pity, that, oh, you know, that devotee is so renounced, that devotee is so pure, I am so fallen. And that way, we may think it’s humility. But if it is discouraging us in our bhakti.
Now, from a spiritual perspective, so I talked about, yesterday, it is differentiated between bhakti and, sorry, humility and self-pity in many ways. But let me talk about in one way, how to differentiate between humility and self-pity. So, humility strengthens our devotional practises, our bhakti practises, whereas self-pity weakens our devotional practises.
So, when we have self-pity, we start thinking, oh, you know, even if, say, I can’t wake up at, if I can wake up only at, say, four o’clock, and some other devotee is waking up at three o’clock. And I start thinking, oh, that devotee is so renounced, I am not so renounced. And then, we may start becoming so disheartened that we may start, not even lose the will to wake up at four o’clock also.
So, what we can do by thinking, oh, what I am doing is not good enough. And how do we decide what is good enough? By comparing with someone else. So, self-pity weakens our bhakti practises.
On the other hand, humility strengthens our bhakti practises. So, what is the attitude of self-pity? You could say, if I can’t practise like so and so, and what’s the use? What is the use? In general, this question, as soon as it comes in, in our thought process, what is the use? What is the use of doing what I am doing? Especially if we are doing something worthwhile in our life, then the question, what is the use, is an indication that we are going to be in the zone of self-pity. On the other hand, humility is, as I said, Krishna-centred.
Even if I can’t practise, like Krishna has still accepted me. Krishna has still accepted me. So, rather than what is the use, what is next? That is the key question that humility has.
Okay, this is where I am. From here, how can I move ahead? So, what is the use is a question which leads us towards futility. It paralyses us.
But what is next? Okay, this is where I am. Krishna has still accepted me. Krishna is allowing me to practise bhakti.
Krishna is letting me live in the association of devotees. So, from here, how can I move ahead? So, what is next? And as soon as that, what is next? Okay, if I am here, maybe I can move till here. Maybe waking up in the morning is difficult for me.
But there are other areas in which I can serve. And maybe I can take up more responsibility over there. Maybe I can do some more austerity in some other areas.
I don’t have to do in this. So, in this way, as devotees, we can move ahead. So, for us, the key is that, yes, we want to aspire towards pure devotion.
We want to move towards freedom from worldly desires. But how will that come? So, here, if you consider, there is a difference between… So, we talk about self-acceptance. So, self-acceptance means sometimes we may say that, Oh, I don’t have this ability and I don’t have that ability.
If you just live in the association of devotees, you will see so many different devotees have different abilities. So, we say, I can’t sing like that devotee. I can’t speak like that devotee.
I can’t analyse philosophy like that devotee. I can’t manage that devotee. So, in one sense, self-acceptance with respect to abilities is easier.
And it’s undeniable. It just stares straight in the face. No matter what I do, I can’t memorise verses like that person.
No matter what I do, I just can’t speak like that person, analyse that person. So, we just have to accept self-acceptance with respect to abilities. I mean, we could say, we could put it in abilities.
The ability we don’t have, there’s no problem with accepting the abilities that we have. But the abilities we don’t have. So, self-acceptance with respect to that is, it’s required, it’s unavoidable.
But self-acceptance also means self-respectance with respect to desires. So, we may have a certain kind of desires which come in. Okay, I get this kind of desires at this sense.
So, just because we have desires, doesn’t mean that we have to act on all those desires. Krishna talks about this difference between in 5.23 in the Gita. So, he says that there are many desires.
He says that, So, what he says in that is, we could put it this way, that tolerance is the break between temptation and transgression. So, temptation is, we get desires. And transgression is, we act on desires.
So, there are many desires which just come in our consciousness. And we can’t avoid those desires. We can’t deny that those desires are coming in our mind.
But we human beings have the capacity to resist many desires which come inside us. Nobody, not to speak of us devotees, even ordinary people who may have no spiritual principles, even they cannot act on all the desires that they get. Because our mind gets so many desires and just to live a civilised life, just to avoid a law-breaking life, we need to learn some level of discipline.
And we all do that. So, there are some desires which will come within us, but we can avoid acting on them. And that is where the key of tolerance comes in.
And of course, some desires may come from our past and they may be very strong. So, we could say the desires from our past can fall in various categories, some which you can tolerate them. They come, they stay there for some time and they go away.
And some when they come, they are so strong that we have to act on them. So, there are three things over here. There is the presence of desires.
There is the indulgence in desires. And there is the tolerance of desires. So, we could say, I had talked about this in one of our earlier sessions also, about what working, dealing with desires.
So, their presence, tolerance and indulgence. So, presence comes from past condition. I’ll talk about this a little bit more.
Based on the way we have grown up in our previous lives and in our pre-devotional lives. Certain desires, they will be present within us. Now, tolerance, possible for many desires.
So, as far as indulgence is concerned, may be necessary in a regulated form for some desires. We’ll talk about this a little bit later. But broadly, there is the presence of desires.
So, we can’t do much about this. Desires will be present. And now, when the desires come, can we tolerate them? Can we say no to them? Yes, we can for many desires.
So, Prabhupada gives the example for this, that if a human being is going through a market and say, a donkey is going through a market. A donkey sees a vegetable, the donkey will just put his mouth in the vegetable stall and take the vegetable and eat it. But a human being won’t do that.
Human being may be hungry, human being may want that vegetable. But they won’t do that. Why? Because we have intelligence, we have some culture.
And even if we have the desire, we can tolerate it. So, tolerance is possible for everyone for many desires, not all desires. And as far as indulgence is concerned, may be necessary in a regulated form for some desires.
We’ll come to that. So, we can see that Dhruv Maharaj didn’t go into, so we can differentiate say indulgence from, we could say, demoniac indulgence. So, where there is no regulation in indulgence, no regulation or even no regard to virtue, no regard for virtue.
No regard for virtue means what? So, that means, for example, Ravana, when he wanted, he was so lusty that he was attracted to someone, he just forcibly abducted that person or forced himself on that person. He abducted Sita, he forced himself on Rambha. So, there is no regulation in that, there is no regard for virtue.
But in the Vedic culture, there are many cases where say characters and scriptures get attracted to each other. Say a king may get attracted, a prince may get attracted to a princess, but then there is a whole dharmic way in which they get married. So, we have, say for example, in the Bhagavatam itself, Arjuna getting attracted to Subhadra.
So, when Arjuna was attracted to Subhadra, Subhadra was also attracted to Arjuna. But even then Krishna, Arjuna did not act first without Krishna sanction and also without Yudhishthira sanction. He sent Yudhishthira a message that I am planning to abduct Subhadra and Yudhishthira said, yes, if you have Krishna’s blessings, you can go ahead.
And Krishna also was acting not only for simply their desires, mutual desires. Krishna also wanted to strengthen the Pandavas and the Yadu dynasty was very powerful. So, whichever dynasty the Yadu princess married, whichever side of the Kuru dynasty she married, that side would become powerful.
So, if she married Duryodhana’s side, Duryodhana’s side would become powerful. If she married on the Pandava’s side, the Pandavas would become powerful. So, Krishna had multiple purposes over there.
But the point is, although there was abduction, it was not whimsical. There was regulation even over that. So, the indulgence itself is not always bad.
From a pure devotional perspective, yes, it may not be the pure devotional level. But there are various levels in which we can consider the manifestation of desires inside us and outside us in terms of actions. So, now I talked about the presence of desires.
Let’s look at that. So, how do desires arise? The desires arise, they are propositions arising from the impressions inside us that we have formed by our past actions in this or previous lives. So, every action that we do, it creates an impression and that impression leads to a proposition.
So, for example, if somebody drinks alcohol once, then what happens is they get the urge to drink again and then again and then again. So, every indulgence, it creates an impression within us and that impression leads to a proposition. So, desires arise from the impressions that are already formed in our consciousness.
And now the important thing is to understand. So, we all have acted in many different ways in our lives. Say, if I was talking before the pandemic when I spent time in America, so I spent a lot of time in Florida.
There are many senior Prabhupada disciples over there. And they talked about their lives sometimes in detail. So, they said that sometimes when they joined, there was great enthusiasm.
Prabhupada was there and there was this furoor that within a few months, devotees are going to take over the world. And within a few years, they’re going to get purified. And then soon we’ll get liberated and go back to Godhead.
So, that was enthusiasm. And then after that, they realised that things were not that fast. So, they couldn’t sustain at that level.
So, then some of them changed their ashram. Some of them left the temple and tried to look for other careers. Some of them for some time went back into material life.
But the point over here is, this is why I’m talking about this. So, devotees who relapse into sensuality. So, what happens is, they, in one sense, so what the curious thing they told me, they don’t relapse into, they didn’t, so for example, if they came in the, they were introduced in the 60s.
So, who came in the 60s and say relapsed in the 80s. So, they were attracted not to the 80s, say for example, the 80s music or the 80s movies. They were attracted to the 60s music and the 60s movies.
Why is that? Because those impressions were there. So, our desires, now, of course, if somebody keeps indulging, then what will happen is, they may get attracted eventually, material indulgences grow, and they may get attracted to other things also. But the point is that our desires, they come based on impressions that are there in the past.
So, in one sense, say, if as devotees, we have not, say, watched sports or movies or anything like that for a long time, and then we are at, maybe we are at some place where there is nothing devotional to do. It’s not so easy to connect with which we have no impressions at all. So, our desires come from impressions that were there in the past and they become propositions.
So, what happens is, now, why do we need patience when we are trying to practise bhakti? Because the propositions just won’t go away just because our values or intentions have changed. So, what happens is, why will the proposition not go away? Because the impressions are still there. The impressions are still there and from those impressions, propositions will keep coming.
So, now, I don’t want to indulge. I don’t consider those sensual desires as sources of pleasure. So, my intentions have changed, my values have changed, but still, the impressions have not changed.
That’s why the propositions will come in. So, that’s why if we start judging ourselves too strongly based on the presence of desires within us, we will start thinking that, is bhakti working at all or not? So, in one sense, we need to see spiritual advancement more in terms of change of values and intentions, less in terms of change of desires. Because what happens, to some extent, desires are involuntary.
They are desires or psychological, you can say, reactions. They are propositions which come from beyond our control. So, values and intentions, what do I mean by that? So, if some proposition for sense gratification comes up, so let’s look at this first.
So, differences, discerning in our inner world. So, let’s consider these three things, desires, values, intentions. So, intentions broadly refers to what we consciously seek.
What we consciously, intelligently, deliberately seek, that is intention. So, now, in contrast, desires are what, in this context, you can say, what come up within us. We could say cravings that come up within us.
So, to understand, for example, if you consider Ajamil. Now, when Ajamil went to the forest, he had no intention to indulge in anything. He had gone simply for the purpose of getting some firewood for his father’s sacrifice.
So, he had gone with that intention. But at that time, what happened is, he saw that sight which agitated him. And that desire got triggered over here.
So, in one sense, the desires, so no intention yet desire. Now, of course, in his case, the desire became so strong that it overwhelmed him. So, values refers to what we consider as most important.
So, as devotees, we may still get desires for doing various worldly things. But our intention may be that I want to grow in Krishna Bhakti. I want to connect, I want to go deeper in my spirituality.
So, in one sense, we can say that what happens by our practise of Bhakti is that our desires may not change, but our values and our intentions do change. It’s what we consciously want to do and what we consider as important. So, for devotees, Krishna becomes more and more important.
And worldly cravings and the gratification that becomes over a period of time, it becomes less and less important. So, we can look at our values and intentions. So, we can see values, we can see in terms of, would we consciously give up Krishna Bhakti for worldly things? Circumstantially, unconsciously, we may fall for some temptations.
But consciously, we know Krishna conscious is important and we will not give it up very easy. So, in one sense, if you want to look at our spiritual advancements, desires are very fickle. Sometimes what happens is that for many years, we feel that I have become free from this desire.
I mean, I think I become purified. And then maybe after a decade of practise of Bhakti, suddenly that desire pops up. Then you start thinking, what’s happening over here? Is it that I am regressing in my spiritual life? Is it that, you know, I thought I was advancing, I had become free from this desire.
So, it’s not like that. So, let’s understand this point that, you know, why do desires resurface? So, what happens is that for us, the impressions that are there, as I said, broadly what happens is the impressions inside us lead to propositions. So, now, in one sense, for the impressions to change completely takes a long time.
But the force of the propositions varies over time. The force of the propositions varies over time. That means, sometimes we find that we get, say, for example, we may get a very strong craving.
I want to eat this food, I want to watch this, I want to be with this person or whatever. So, the force of the propositions, sometimes it’s strong, sometimes it’s weak. So, now, we usually, now what determines this force? By force, I mean, like the word we could use here, the vega, vega means urge.
See, the word urge is somewhat different from desire. Urge, you can say, you want to say, urge is an urgent desire. The very word urge is, it’s urgent.
We can’t say no to it when it comes up. So, urge is like an urgent desire and that’s what comes up over here. So, when you talk about what determines this force, in some ways, there are many factors which could determine this force, but one factor is also one’s past karma.
That means, the impressions are there within us from the past, but which impressions come up at what force, that can vary from person to person. And if this is not understood, we can often unnecessarily dishearten reactions. So, our past karma, if you consider the reactions that come, usually we think of those reactions may come in the form of distresses.
You know, we may get disease or we may have financial problems, we may have relational problems. So, various things can happen, relationship issues. We can say that past karmic things can come up because of the distresses, sorry, past karmic reactions can come in the form of distresses, but past karma reactions can also come in terms of desires.
That means, sometimes the resurgence may not be related with our present situation or present practises. It may just be because of our past karma. So, just like sometimes it happens that we can say we are in a relationship with somebody and sometimes, you know, we may have done nothing wrong, but suddenly the relationship starts going down.
Maybe they misunderstand one thing and they misunderstand another thing or say we are in a reasonably comfortable financial position and suddenly things start going wrong. Maybe the global economy goes into recession or maybe the place where we invested money, that bank gets bankrupt, the shares go down. So, when these sudden unpredictable problems come up, so then what happens is we understand this is because of past karma.
So, often we don’t think of desires as distress, but desires also can be a form of distress. The resurgence of desires can also be a way in which our past karma comes upon us. So, if this happens, now this doesn’t mean that devotees’ spiritual practises are being deficient.
It could be. We can’t always say that if a devotee is having problems, it’s only because of past karma. If a devotee has been reckless in, say, dallying with temptations, if a devotee has been lax in the practises of bhakti, that can also make one weak.
But if a devotee has not been doing that in a serious way, but still the reactions, still the desires start coming, then what do we need to do? At that time, we can’t condemn ourselves or we don’t want to live in a community where everybody condemns a person for whatever situation they are going through right now. Because who knows, we might go through a similar phase in the future. So, we don’t know what past karma stockpile we have and how that karma may manifest.
Sometimes it may manifest in the resurgence of desires. So, sometimes our devotees look back and they say, I don’t know why I did this. I don’t know what possessed me.
But to some extent, it might not have been their control. I’m not saying that every fall of a devotee or every deviation of a devotee can be conveniently ascribed to past karma. But that is a possibility that needs to be considered.
So, we know authenticity is required for us. It’s a foundation for our spirituality. We need to authentically realise who we are.
I’m a soul. I’m a part of Krishna. But then to authentically realise who we are, we need to authentically assess where we are presently.
Where am I right now? Where am I right now? At what level of practise I am? How are my desires wavering? How are they going up and down? So, as devotees, we certainly want to grow spiritually. We certainly want to attain Krishna. And unfortunately, we just presume that the practise of Krishna consciousness, sorry, the practise of Krishna consciousness will automatically linearly lead to the decline and disappearance of all worldly desires.
If that happens, that’s wonderful. But if that doesn’t happen, we need to accept that. And okay, this is where I’m at right now.
This is the level of desires I am getting. And these are not something which I can resist. Okay, then what is the way in which I can engage in those desires without giving up my bhakti practises completely? Of course, there are many times if we try diligently, we may even be able to tolerate those desires.
But the presence of those desires itself is not a sign of absence of devotion. So, now we talk about, I said the inner impressions are there. How do we become purified? So, there is a change in inner propositions.
Inner propositions means, say, whenever we pass by a hotel, we think, oh, I want to eat food over here. Maybe we used to eat certain foods in the past. And then most of us, we have lost taste for those kinds of foods.
But still some foods we may still be attracted to. So, purification essentially means, not just that we give up externally the indulgence, but the inner propositions change, the inner propositions stop. That means, as devotees, purification means that whenever, say, a craving for pleasure arises, a devotee may not think about sense gratification.
A devotee may think about maybe studying Shastra, chanting the holy names, and absorbing oneself therein and getting pleasure thereby. So, how will this change in inner propositions happen? At one level, we resist unhealthy propositions as much as we can. That is functionally required for us.
And that is where discipline and willpower and all this is important. But that alone is not enough. We need to cultivate healthy impressions.
And how do we cultivate healthy impressions? By embracing healthy propositions. That’s why if we are in the association of devotees, and whenever we have the opportunity to practise bhakti, we do kirtans, we come to the classes, we study scriptures, we do our puja. By all this, what is happening? We are actually creating healthy impressions within us.
And so, now when I am talking about healthy propositions, those healthy propositions can be both external and internal. So, in our condition stage, internally healthy propositions may not come very often. See, sometimes we may complete our japa.
And how often do we feel, I have completed my 16 rounds, let me chant 16 more. Well, sometimes it may happen, but it may not happen very often. But if you are studying Shastra, and we sometimes feel like studying, sometimes we don’t feel like studying.
But there are some other devotees who are studying with enthusiasm, you get a possibility to study with them. Oh, this is good, I can learn more. So, that’s how, wherever the propositions come from externally or internally, we embrace those propositions.
And this is one of the big benefits of having devotee association. Because what happens is, sorry, devotee association ensures that we keep getting healthy propositions. You can say it’s an enduring source of healthy propositions.
Of course, sometimes we feel these propositions are too many. I can’t do so much. I cannot attend so many programmes.
I cannot do so many sevas. That is fine. We have to balance from a realistic perspective.
But the problem is, but the important thing is, that if there is no devotee association, then the only source, then the only external propositions we are going to get are largely unhealthy. And then what happens is, the only source of healthy propositions for us is internal. And that is not easy.
That means, there is nobody around us telling us study Shastra, chant the holy names, worship the deities. Then how long can we continue that? That is difficult. So, devotee association is quite important.
Anyway, we will go ahead. So, I conclude this class now with two main points. That, see, at one level, we have Dhruva is being hard with himself.
Why did I have those material desires? But Narada Muni didn’t condemn him because of having material desires. He didn’t reject Dhruva. He didn’t make him feel bad.
But he engaged and encouraged him to rise from where he was. So, in one sense, if Narada Muni had not been compassionate, if Narada Muni had been judgemental, that he has so many material desires. So, then Dhruva would never have practised Bhakti and he would never have got the darshan of the Lord.
He would never have got the higher taste. So, now what we can say is, that compassion is needed not just at the start of Bhakti, but also throughout Bhakti. That means that, yes, now in one sense, if somebody is coming new to the practise of Bhakti and they are eating all kinds of food, they are watching all kinds of mundane things, we understand that’s where they are coming from.
So, we understand that we naturally be compassionate towards those devotees. But we need to be compassionate even for devotees throughout the practise of Bhakti. That doesn’t mean we become nonchalant about any kinds of indulgences in life.
But it just means we need to understand where somebody is coming from. So, compassion doesn’t mean that, okay, whatever you are doing, everything is all right. No.
Okay, what are you doing? Okay, if you need to do it, how can you regulate it? How can you continue your practise of Bhakti in spite of this? So, that compassion, how it is to be expressed can vary from person to person. But without that kind of compassion, what will happen is Bhakti will become very very rigid, very depersonalised. If you do this, as long as you do this, you are inside.
If you stop doing this, get out. And you are a fallen devotee. You are deviant.
You are degraded. No. You know, whatever somebody is at present or is going through in the present, we need to know that they have practised Bhakti for long.
And it’s not that just because of one lapse, because of one indulgence, Krishna stops caring for them. Krishna always cares for them. So, we also need to care for them in the appropriate way.
So, this is a concluding point. Expertise in guidance means that we don’t just glamorise the ideal. But we respect or recognise the practical.
Recognise the practical in the sense of what is practical for this person at this level and offer a path from the practical to the ideal. So, when we say recognise the practical, it doesn’t mean that, oh, this is where you are, that’s where you can stay. No, naturally, we want devotees to rise from where they are.
But offer a path from the practical to the ideal. And in one sense, we do this when we are practising, when we start, when we introduce somebody to the practise of Bhakti. Yes, we know where they are and from there we say, okay, you start with one round, then you do this many rounds.
We give them a practical to the ideal. But in one sense, after we start practising Bhakti, then if somebody has problems with worldly desires, then rather than understanding them, we start judging and condemning them. But we don’t know what issues they are going through.
Again, the point of this is not to rationalise wrongdoing. It is not to justify any kind of laxity or lapses. But when something like that happens, then, okay, this is where you are at right now.
This is what you got into somehow. And you need to deal with this. But how can you continue the practise of Bhakti? So Prabhupada was so expert.
No, Prabhupada, we can say, engaged even those who left sannyas vows. Now Prabhupada in scripture was very categorical about the exalted level of expected of a sannyasi. But if some sannyasi was not able to continue, that is certainly at one level a regrettable thing.
And of course, now in our movement, sannyas is much more regulated and it’s not so easy to get. But the point was Prabhupada did not reject such devotees. Prabhupada accommodated them, Prabhupada engaged them.
During one Mayapur festival in the late 70s, there was one prominent leader of Shilpa Prabhupada’s movement who had problems with sannyas vows. And that person wrote a letter to Prabhupada. And he in one sense sent his sannyas danda back to Prabhupada by post, by parcel.
And Prabhupada would not directly read his letters. Prabhupada’s servant or secretary would read the letters. And in this case, this servant read this and before he could tell Prabhupada, he had already read the letter.
And he told it to many many devotees in the community. And it was not just Mayapur community, it was an international festival. So, so many devotees came to know about it.
And when Prabhupada came to know about it, he was very upset. He said, you have made it so difficult for that devotee to come back to Krishna Bhakti. See, a devotee may act in a dishonourable way, but that doesn’t mean we have to humiliate that devotee.
That doesn’t mean we have to specifically go about humiliating that devotee. So, Prabhupada was expert. He did give the ideal, but when devotees fell from the standards, then from wherever they were, he engaged them so that they could again come back in the practise of bhakti and progress toward the ideal.
So, Prabhupada was strict in terms of giving the standards. In describing the ideals, but Prabhupada was also very compassionate and considerate when it came to accommodating devotees who were not able to stick to the standards. And that is the mood of compassion that we also need.
So, when we are looking at our past, so our topic was how to look at our past from a spiritual perspective. So, to a large extent, I discussed that in yesterday’s class. In today’s class, the idea was that sometimes from our past, propositions may keep coming periodically.
And sometimes those propositions may resurge in ways that can be bewildering and disruptive for our present life. But we need to see that also within the ambit of our philosophy. And when that is within the ambit of how that can be accommodated, so that can be understood with our philosophy, the resurgence of our desires suddenly.
And how to accommodate such devotees or such resurgence of desires that requires expertise in understanding and guiding so that those devotees can go through those phases of resurgence and then again become re-stabilised in the practise of bhakti. So, to summarise, today we talked the second session of, so the second session of how to see our past spiritually. And I talked about broadly three themes in this session that first was when we start practising bhakti, how do we deal with the desires that are present within us? So, desires, how do they arise? So, in one sense, or how do we deal with the desires? One sense is renunciation means we hear about the futility and we give it up.
Although that may be considered better, it may be better in principle but not be better in practise for us. For most of us, we have to realise the sweetness of bhakti, we have to experience the sweetness of bhakti, we have to experience the emptiness of worldly desires and then we can go beyond them. And that may require time.
So, all devotees have certain level of renunciation to be able to do the basic practise of bhakti. But what level of renunciation may be suitable, it will vary. So, if we go into self-acceptance with respect to our lack of abilities is very easy to, is relatively easy and unavoidable.
But self-respect with respect to our lack of purity, with respect to the presence of our impure desires, that may require more time. But if you don’t have a self-acceptance, then we’ll go into self-pity. And the difference between self-pity and humility from a functional perspective is self-pity de-energises in our bhakti practises.
What is the use? I have been doing so much chanting, but still the worldly desires are coming. So, what is the use of practising bhakti? But humility is, okay, I have so many conditionings, but in spite of that, Krishna has accepted me in the circle of devotees. Krishna has given me an opportunity to practise bhakti.
So, not what is the use, but what is next. So, humility encourages us to practise bhakti. And then we went deeper to understand, in principle, as devotees, we want to transcend worldly desires, but we look at where do desires come from.
So, we differentiate between three things, desires, values and intentions. So, our primary spiritual seriousness and spiritual advancement has to be seen in terms of what do we consciously seek, what are intentions, and what do we consider as important, that is our values. But desires may keep wavering.
So, desires arise as propositions from the impressions that we have in our lives from the past. So, that’s why devotees relapse. Often they relapse not to the contemporary forms of maya, but to the forms of maya they were indulging in before they came to bhakti.
And then we talk further about when the propositions come, there are three levels. There is presence of desires, then there is tolerance of desires, which is possible to a large extent by seriousness and bhakti. But sometimes there will be indulgence, which is in a regulated way.
And what is condemned is the unregulated indulgence, demonic indulgence like Ravana’s was. So, we talk about Arjuna getting attracted to Subhadra, that was very much within the purview of dharma. And Krishna used this ultimately for his purpose of strengthening the Pandavas.
So, now, if there is a sudden resurgence in worldly desires for a devotee, that could be because they are reckless in engaging with world temptations, or they are lax in their devotional practises. But it can also be because of past karma. Past karma doesn’t come in terms of, say, financial problems or health problems.
It can also come in the form of distressing desires, desires that are distressful, that torment us. So, when that happens, we need to be compassionate to, we need to be kind to ourselves and others, we need to cultivate kindness to others who are going through those phases. So, we talked about how does purification happen? So, just because our values and intentions are changed doesn’t mean the propositions stop coming.
So, purification essentially means the propositions change. So, that happens, first is, we consciously say no to those propositions whenever they come up. That means tolerate them.
And second is, we create new impressions. And for that, and we embrace healthy propositions. That healthy propositions may come internally from our own intelligence and intentions, or they can come externally from the association of devotees.
That’s why association is very valuable because then the propositions for devotion, new practises keep coming. And that’s why practising without association is difficult because there will be lots of worldly propositions coming from the culture around us. And the only devotional propositions will have to come from inside us, which is not so easy.
So then, when we are going through those phases when there are difficulties, so just as Dhruva is hard with him, and we all want to aspire to go towards purity, but Narada Muni was not judgemental in condemning him for mental desires. He engaged him from where he was. And that Narada Muni’s compassion is required, not just at the start of the practise of bhakti, but it may be required in the intermediate stages during the practise of bhakti also when the desires may start resurging.
So we saw how Prabhupada was compassionate even to sannyasis who had relapses. So we can’t glamorise the ideal so much that we condemn those who don’t meet the ideal. Rather, we accept wherever people are at the practical level, and then we help them find a path from the practical progressively toward the ideal.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So are there any reflections or questions? Thank you, Chaitanya Charan Prabhu.
Hare Krishna Prabhu. Beautiful, beautiful class. So insightful.
And it’s one that I’ll be going through a few times. I just was reflecting on one thing. And as far as something that I was having realisation from your classes, I could see in my youth before I took to ashram life, there was definitely a lot of sporting and various activities.
You could say some were more going towards degradation, and some would be considered healthy. Like I played a lot of soccer, I would surf in the ocean, do a lot of hiking. And then there’s other activities, which I won’t mention, that probably weren’t so favourable as far as the four regulative principles.
And so now it’s interesting, in the beginning, there was a certain intensity of renunciation. And very interesting how you said, the contemporary modality of enjoyment, there’s not so much interest, but it’s the past things. So one thing I’m experiencing is, in the association of devotees who are dedicated sadhakas, they’re rising early, chanting japa, hearing shastra daily, quite absorbed.
I find that when I associate with them, and either if I do some balanced recreation on my own or even with them, it seems to be healthy, at least my experience. For example, we have one devotee here, and we do some archery. Or sometimes we get together and we play some soccer at the park.
Or I had some past years of martial arts, from five years old to 17, 12 years of like three times a week. So I see that if I engage in those kind of activities, which are kind of a little physically challenging, it seems to then support me from considering doing things that will be more, as you said, like Ravana, illicit and degrading. And of course, I’m not going to start playing soccer.
I’m going to try out for a club team and break my knees. But meaning just go to the park with a few devotees, especially if they’re sadhakas, and we go for half an hour, one hour. We do a little recreation, just kind of like what you were saying.
It’s like these past impressions, but kind of going through it in a healthy way, where it doesn’t go towards degradation. And then we come back, we read Bhagavatam for an hour, we get ready for rest and then we see each other for Mangal Aarti. So I was really appreciating such a comprehensive class and you touched on some very crucial points, especially for ourselves who are in the Bhajana Kriya, Anartha Nivritti stage.
I think what you shared is very, very supportive and insightful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing this.
You know, this is very striking point what you made that after a particular period of time, we also develop the discernment to understand what are you could say anti-devotional desires and what are, because they’re non-devotional, but they are not anti-devotional. And in one sense, some ways, some form of exercise, they’re also good for the body. So I know one devotee who used to be passionate about chess and he told me that whenever he would try to study Bhagavatam, now again, I’m not recommending this for everyone, but whenever he would try to study Bhagavatam, he would just feel so tired and sleepy.
So he said that now, if I have one hour for studying Bhagavatam, I play a timed chess match for 10 minutes and that just stimulates my intelligence so much that the 50 minutes I study Bhagavatam afterward, it’s actually of a better quality. Now, most devotees basically actually are going to Maya. Now, he’s a devotee who has been practising for 20-25 years and he’s a very earnest devotee.
Now, I trust him that he understands. It’s better to be say 50 minutes sharp in studying the Bhagavatam than to be sleepy and bored while studying for 60 minutes. In one sense, sometimes certain activities which we like to do by our psychophysical nature, they may stimulate and energise us.
And if we are stimulated and energised, not stimulated and sensually stimulated, but just like our consciousness becomes sharpened, then we may be able to do devotional activities also better. So again, this is not a recommendation, but what you’re saying, I just echoed that from a different perspective also. So there could be physical exercises and there could be intellectual exercises also.
So it’s playing chess not just for gratification, or say you’re playing sports not just for gratification, but there’s also certain amount of activation of the body and that may actually keep us healthier and sharper for doing our devotional activities also. Thank you. Thank you Prabhu.
You unpack that on points. Thank you. Hare Krishna.
So I think Nandashila Prabhu might have had a question. Yeah, there is a comment. Okay, Nandashila Prabhu, yes.
Hare Krishna Prabhu. Hare Krishna. Nice to see you.
Nice to see you also. How are you doing? I’m doing pretty well. Thank you.
Thank you. I wanted to ask a question, Prabhu. Okay, so you’re talking about Srila Prabhupada and his compassion while not compromising any philosophical points that we hear in the Bhagavatam.
So my question is sometimes, actually, it feels like the Bhagavatam doesn’t have that compassionate side. So if we still have material desires, you know, going towards the grounds of the ashram, like in my case, the Bhagavatam can sometimes be kind of painful because of the confrontation with that high standard because the Bhagavatam doesn’t really give a lower standard. So I wanted to ask if you have any insights on how to read the Bhagavatam in my position.
Does the Bhagavatam not have lower levels of lower standards? I’m not sure about that because the Bhagavatam… Okay, I’ll explain two ways. One is the Bhagavatam is focused in one sense on specifically guiding Parishit Maharaj when he’s about to die. So all the stories are told from that perspective, that focus.
So at that point, everything apart from Bhakti is actually an interruption, is actually a deviation, a distraction, you could say. And it can be a dangerous distraction also because death is so close by. But the Bhagavatam does have many cases, say for example, where people perform austerities and then they engage in worldly life.
So we have the Prachetas perform austerities and then after that they get the darshan of the Lord and then they engage in the royal responsibilities of cosmic administration. And we have most of the examples are of kings who do engage in the royal responsibility. We have Prithu Maharaj himself and of course we have Dhruv Maharaj.
He laments over here, but he does engage in the household responsibilities quite diligently. And Parishit Maharaj also before his renunciation, he was quite responsible. He was searching around in the kingdom to detect signs of Kali and to counter them.
So the Bhagavatam’s thrust definitely is to prepare us for the moment of death. That is very clearly the purpose of the Bhagavatam. At the same time, the Bhagavatam doesn’t deny the fact that although we all may die at any moment, we can die at the next moment, but in the normal course of life, there is a structure.
There is a flow from one ashram to another ashram. And the Bhagavatam doesn’t acknowledge the existence of the ashram. But the Bhagavatam says that even to prepare for the ashram, there is a foundation of discipline and austerity that is required.
But having done that, the Bhagavatam does include quite a broad purview of who all can practise bhakti and in fact who all can go on to exalted levels of devotion after the practise of bhakti. So even if we say somebody like Priyavrat, he enters into Brahasthashram and now the Bhagavatam is a little ambiguous whether he actually becomes entangled or out of his humility. He thinks that I have become entangled.
But either way, he does become disentangled. And even when the Bhagavatam, even when he is in householder life, the Bhagavatam is not simply like in a Bono track condemning him for having got entangled. The Bhagavatam praises in quite glowing terms all that he does during his reign as a king.
So he is an illustrious king. So yes, the overall mood of the bhakti tradition is very inclusive. And the Bhagavatam is a bhakti text.
So we see in Chaitanya Charita Amrut, although the devotees are very exalted, but at the same time, many of the prominent associates, in fact we could say most of the prominent associates of Lord Chaitanya are householders. So and overall also as our movement is moving forward, as we especially get into second generation, we are also becoming a more congregational based movement. So in one sense, we could say that the emphasis on the renounced order, if you consider the broad Vedic tradition as it existed in India for thousands of years, if you look at most of the sages in the Ramayana or in the Mahabharata, even the sages are married, even if they are living in say forest in a cottage.
So they are married. So there is no condemnation of Grahasthala Ashram as such. So in one sense, we could say that the way our movement started, that was an emergency and the situation was extraordinary.
So there was a counterculture where people, most of people had already rejected the normal way of living. So then a wholehearted practise of bhakti was natural for them. But in one sense, as we are moving toward becoming a more and more congregational based movement, community based movement where more and more congregation devotees are there, in one sense, we are returning to what was the norm in the broad Vedic culture itself, including in the bhakti culture.
So we need to zero in on those sections in the Bhagavatam which display this inclusiveness vision. And especially we are associated with mature devotees who have been in Grahastha life for a substantial amount of time. Then we will understand how there also bhakti can be practised and we can grow in whichever ashram we are.
So thank you Dara for your comment about how we need to cultivate compassion when it is difficult. So both to our new devotees, yes, nice way of putting it, they are trying to wrap their brains around the philosophy. And the old devotees, we may get puffed up, but we have to remember that.
So Krishna cares even for devotees who fall away or who are temporarily fallen. Yes. So we have to in one sense, if we are servants of Krishna, that means we have to act on behalf of Krishna.
And then we need to sometimes reflect the care that Krishna has for those devotees. Thank you. Are there any other reflections or questions? Shall we stop here? Very good.
Please accept my humble obeisances. Good to see you. How are you keeping? I’m keeping well and you? Krishna’s mercy.
Thank you. I did have a question because I did miss a little bit of the end of what you said in a service I was doing. But you were talking about samskaras and I was just reflecting the other day about how you spend so many years in the movement, living at temples, devotional service, chanting, reading.
And you feel that you have processed or like moved beyond some of these samskaras. And then, you know, they all of a sudden they’re like popping up in you and you’re like, wait, where did this come from? I thought like I was, you know, past that. So I know that you had had like a finality of what you were saying, but I couldn’t be present for what you said.
So I just wonder if you could elaborate a little bit more about that for me. So essentially what I said was that sometimes the samskaras, the impressions that are there, they are more or less steady. They are from the past.
They are there in our lives. And we may not do anything during our current practises of bhakti to further escalate them. But from those impressions, propositions arise.
And the strength of those propositions, the force of those propositions. So basically, we all have desires, but sometimes those desires become urges. Urges means they become very forceful, they become very urgent.
So when that happens, why does that happen? So that may even happen sometimes because of our past karma. So past karma can lead to distress. But distress doesn’t simply have to come in terms of financial or relational or health difficulties.
Distress can come in the form of distress causing desires. So if that is happening, then we just see just like physical distress may come, financial distress may come. And we understand this is a phase.
Let me use my intelligence and let me best navigate my way through it. The same principle we may have to adopt for managing the resurgence of our worldly desires also, if they sometimes happen. That’s excellent.
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you for giving class too. Happy to be of service. It’s wonderful to be with all of you digitally, even if I can’t be there physically.
We hope to see you here soon. Yes, I’d love to be there. Thank you.
Hare Krishna. So thank you very much. Tushita Prabhu, thank you, Prindamata ji.
And thank you to everyone. Thank you, Chaitanya Chakrababu. Really appreciate you carving out time every month.
And I know it’s late for you there. Really grateful for your insights and sharing your realisations and elaboration on Shastra. Invaluable, what you’re giving to the Sangha of Vaishnavas.
Thank you. Happy to be of service.