How to understand Krsna is non-different from His Name?

From: Chandra

How to understand Krsna is non-different from His Name? Any example?

Answer Highlights:

1. Difference between Varnavada and Sphotavada

2. Difference between svara and shabda

3. Difference between Varnavada and Bhakti

Transcript

This is an AI-generated transcript and may contain some errors.
Question by Chandra.
How can we understand that Krishna is not different from His name? Any examples? I will give a straightforward answer and then I will give an intricate philosophical answer to this question. At a straightforward level, we understand that Krishna being God is supreme. And being supreme means that He can do whatever He wants.
And He has told us in the scriptures that there is no difference between the name and the named. This is a verse which comes in the Padma Purana. So the name and the named as far as it refers to the Lord are non-different.
And how is this non-difference possible? Because Krishna is God, He can make that happen by His potency. And that’s the straightforward answer. Now at a more intricate level, we will discuss a little bit about the concept of language and sound and meaning and power within the sound as explained in the Vedic wisdom tradition.
And we will compare it with some understandings from our modern scientific context. So traditionally in the Vedic school of thought or the Indian school of thought, the power of language or the power of words was understood in two ways. There were two theories to explain that.
One was called Varnavad and the other was Potavad. So the theory of Varnavad was primarily used by the Mimamsakas. Mimamsakas are those who follow the philosophy of Mimamsa.
In the Vedic wisdom tradition, there are six systems of philosophy. One of them is Mimamsa. The concluding was of course Vedanta.
And Vedanta evolved to become theistic rationalism later on. Evolved not in the time sense but in the maturity of understanding sense as revealed in the subsequent scriptures. So in the Mimamsaka school of thought that is propagated by Jaimini and other sages, which is called as Varnavad with respect to sound and its power.
Varna means letters or syllables. So the idea is that the power of sound is in its individual letters and syllables. And this understanding is the basic conception of mantra.
Now in contrast to that is Spotavad. In other words, Spota, we often know of it in terms of explosion. So there is a big accuracy to that imagery.
In the sense that according to Spotavad, it is not the individual syllables that contain the meaning and the power of language. But it is their overall meaning. When we hear a sentence, at one particular moment in our consciousness, the meaning of the sentence, if it is cleverly worded or humorously phrased, it goes off.
It sort of explodes. And then if it is a joke, we laugh. If it is a very profoundly wise statement, then we are impressed.
But that happens not just by the utterance of the word, by the syllables that constitute the sentence, but by the complete sentence. And if the sentence were spoken half, the meaning would not be clear and the impact would not be there. So Spotavad holds that the power of the sound is in the meaning.
And this was propagated by Bhartarahari and other sages following him and also preceding him. So now Spotavad holds that potentially all language can have extraordinary power. Because whenever language is comprised of words that are written in a meaningful way, and the meaning is sufficiently evocative or powerful, then that explosion within our consciousness can occur.
In contrast to that, Varnamad holds that it is only the Vedic sound, the sound that is given in the Vedic literature, that has divine power and divine potency. And it is the recitation of that Vedic sound that enables us to access a higher power. And when he is talking about sound, he is not talking about complete sentences with coherent meanings, but it is talking about syllables and letters.
Traditionally, Rig Veda was recited with meticulous carefulness. And it was considered that if there was anything that went wrong in the pronunciation, then not only would the result not come, the result would be counterproductive. And even by the time, say 5th century, 10th century, when there were Rig Vedic commentators like Yashka and Shayana, at that time they say that there are many Brahmins who recite the Rig Veda perfectly.
Not one intonation or emphasis or pronunciation is wrong in the recitation. But they do know the meanings of many of the sections of the Rig Veda. And even in 17th century, when the European colonists started studying India, they found that the Hindus could recite the Rig Veda so perfectly.
But many of them were completely blank about the meaning. So now we can say that this is laziness, this is ritualisticness, whatever. But there is a logic for that also.
According to the Varnavat school of thought, the power is in the pronunciation of the syllables precisely. And therefore the meaning doesn’t matter. This is Varnavat.
Now to understand it from our current scientific context, sometimes when we have to solve a scientific problem that involves mathematics, and now if we know the formula, say E is equal to MC square, now somebody who knows how to use the formula can use it and solve the problem and get the result, but that person may not know any of the theory behind it. Of course some little awareness of basic knowledge of the theory has to be there, but how matter and energy are interconvertible is a complex subject. And the person may not understand it all.
So in the formula, the effectiveness of the formula does not depend on complete awareness of the theory that underlies that formula. If one just knows the formula and one knows how to apply the formula, then one can get the result. So Varnavat holds that basically the Vedic mantras are like formulas.
And whether one knows the meaning or not, if one does it properly, one will get the result. And if one does it improperly, one will get a wrong result. Say instead of E is equal to MC cube, I will get a completely different and wrong result.
So like that, Varnavat holds that the power of sound is in its proper enunciation or pronunciation, with all the syllables being spoken and uttered perfectly. Now in the scientific context also, for explaining E is equal to MC square, I might have a full book. And if I want to understand the theoretical basis, then I have to read the full book.
And when I read the book and I understand the meaning, that meaning explodes in my consciousness. Oh, this is how the whole thing is understood. So we see in science there are formulas and there are theories to explain the formulas.
And the formulas are roughly analogous to Varnavat. And the theoretical explanation which depends on understanding properly, not just on precise manipulation, but on precise understanding, that is analogous roughly to Spotaval. Now I am saying the analogy is rough, because there are many subtleties involved in Vedic linguistics, which are not relatable or explainable in terms of modern science.
But still, it gives us a general understanding. So naturally, when we talk about the names of the Lord, so Jiva Goswami and before him, Shri Padramacharya, Shri Madhavacharya, Shri Dharaswami, all of them, they explain the power of the mantras with Varnavat. So that’s why Srila Prabhupada also says, you don’t have to understand the language, you don’t have to do any intellectual speculation, you don’t have to have any mental adjustment.
Just chant the mantra and you will experience the ecstasy. So how does one experience that? That is because the power is in the sound. It is not in the meaning of the sound, but it is in the sound itself.
Now in music, the sound itself is of two types in broad categories. There is Shabda and there is Swara. Now Shabda means sound with semantic value, sound with meaning.
And Swara is sound which may not have semantic meaning, but it has musical appeal. So when Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni Sa, one sings the Swaras, now in and of themselves, the Swaras don’t have any meaning. But still they have appeal because there is a musical charm to them.
So Shabda and Swara, these are from our normal understanding. There is something which has meaning for us and that’s why it has value. And there is something which has a non-semantic, which is non-meaningful, but it still has a value to us.
That is music, that is Swara. So this is another example from our normal context as well as the Vedic context to illustrate the point that, so in music, what evokes the feeling is not necessarily the meaning of the music. If you have some verbal speech associated with it, then if there is a song along with it, if there is accompaniment with music, then the song may also have its meaning.
But music itself comprises of sound vibrations. And those sound vibrations in themselves don’t have meaning. If a person is playing a harmonium or a Kartal or a Mridanga, then the sound vibration that comes from there is to some extent like a Swara.
So in and of itself it does not have much meaning, but still that doesn’t mean it is valueless. So it has value because of its musical and aesthetic charm. So sound, on the other hand, has its value because of its meaningful and analytical charm.
So Varnavad is like music and Sphotavad is something like normal language. So now, as I said, Jiva Goswami and our Acharyas, Vishnu Acharyas before him, have all said that we understand the power of the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra and similar names of God through Varnavad. The power is in the sound itself.
If we chant Ram, we chant Krishna, even if people don’t understand it, they can experience the joy, they can experience the happiness. At the same time, the Vaishnava understanding of the power of the Holy Name has a significant difference from Varnavad. What is that difference? The philosophy of Mimamsa, or Karma Mimamsa propagated by Germany, holds that actually it is not that the Devatas or God is supreme, they consider that the law of Karma is supreme.
And there is a system of order in this world, and the system of order is supreme. So those who follow that system of order, they get power. And those who defy that system of order, they lose power.
So their idea is that the Devatas have become Devatas because they chanted the mantras properly, because they did the yagyas properly. And you tapped the power of sound and ritual, and that power made them powerful. So from the Mimamsa point of view, even the power of the Devatas depends on the proper recitation of mantras and the proper performance of yagya.
And there is some truth to this understanding. If we see in the 7th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, when Hiranyakashyapu wants to attack the demigods, first thing he does is, he tells his demons, go to the earth and destroy the sacrifices that have been performed over there. Stop the chant, recitation of the Vedas.
So when this religious activity is stopped, the demigods will become weakened by that. So the idea of Varanavada is that even the Devatas get their power by the recitation of mantras. And by the recitation of proper mantras, even the Devatas can be brought down.
So the son of Parikshit Maharaj, Janmejay, gets very angry when he finds that his father Parikshit Maharaj has been killed by a snake, who is now being sheltered by Indra. So then he orders mantras to be chanted, by which he requests the Brahmanas to chant mantras. And Jayamini starts chanting the mantras, and it says that Indra actually starts falling from the throne, and coming under the sacrificial fire to get burnt.
And then immediately Brahmaji appears over there and tells him, don’t disrupt the order of the universe, because Indra is the demigod who is in charge of the heavens, and he needs to be kept alive and safe. So then at the request of Brahmaji, Jayamini stops the chanting of the mantras. So the idea is that the mantras give power to Indra, and the mantras can even drag Indra down.
So in the Mimamsik understanding of Varnavad, the supreme power in oneself is in the sound itself. And if by the recitation of sound one can gain power, one can destroy others’ power. And because of the power in the sound, if one does it wrong, then one has to bear the consequences.
Nobody can help one in that. So that’s why we have Tvashta chanting one slight syllable wrong in his mantra, Indra, Indrachatra ho, Indrachatra ho. So the one who will be the enemy of Indra, and one for whom Indra will be the enemy.
So they have two different meanings. And one may say somebody performs a huge ritual, and just one thing wrong and that person gets the opposite result. So Tvashta sang Ritrasura.
That yajna was performed with the intention that so the one who is the enemy of Indra means this person will kill Indra. And one whose enemy is Indra means Indra will kill him. So Tvashta got the exact opposite result because of one small mispronunciation.
Now we may say this is so heartless. Everything is done right, but one small thing is done wrong, and everything is lost. It seems heartless, but we see this sometimes even in our academic education.
A student has learned everything very properly, but in one formula he just does something wrong, a silly mistake. And the whole sum which may be worth 20 marks, 25 marks or whatever, everything he just gets a zero over there. So the Vaishnava understanding of the power of the holy name is something more than Varnaval.
The power of the holy name is there in the holy name by the grace of the person named by the holy name. So that means that what is important is not just the utterance of the sound, but the pleasure of the person who is being invoked by the sound. That’s why there are verses in the Puranas which say that मुर्खो वदति विष्णायः धिरो वदति विष्णवे उभयोसु समंपुण्यः भावग्राहि जनार्धन। So it says that somebody who doesn’t know the rules of Sanskrit grammar may refer to the Supreme Lord as Vishnaya.
Like we have Krishnaaya, so he makes Vishnu into Vishnaya. But actually the proper form of Vishnu while invoking is Vishnave. Om Krishnaaya Namaha and Om Vishnave Namaha.
So if somebody instead of chanting Vishnave chants Vishnaya, so the Puranas say that उभयोस्तु समंपुण्यः In both cases one will get the same pious crates. Here पुण्य refers not just to mundane pious crates, but spiritual pious crates. One gets the same pious crates because भावग्राहि जनार्धन। The Lord sees the emotion in the heart.
So therefore, in the Vaishnava understanding of the power of sound, the वर्णवाद is accepted, but it is also transcended. The power of the sound is not just intrinsic and automatic to the sound. The power of the sound is dependent on the mercy of the Lord.
So, in one absolute sense, अभिन्नत्वं नाम नामिन्ह। The holy name and the Lord are non-different. At the same level, there is a difference, because we have Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakur explaining the three stages of chanting of the holy name in his Harinam Chintamani and other books. He derives his understanding from the Vedic scriptures.
He says there is अपरादनाम, that is नाम अभहास, and there is शुद्धनाम. So, अपरादनाम is offensive name. नाम अभहास is the clearing stage.
So, the name is just like the rising moon. We see the reflection of the name. So, the offensive stage, the reflective stage, and शुद्धनाम, the pure stage of chanting of the holy names.
Now, it is interesting that although Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakur accepts the point that the holy name is non-different from Krishna, but still he says that chanting can be at different levels. Now, what is the difference in all these levels? The person who is chanting in अपरादनाम and the person who is chanting in शुद्धनाम, both are actually chanting the same Hare Krishna Mahamantra. And Hare Krishna Mahamantra, we hear from scripture, is non-different from Krishna.
Then why are these different people at different levels? It is because although the Hare Krishna Mahamantra is non-different from Krishna, that non-difference is not automatically perceived by us. That non-difference is perceived by us depending on our level of attentiveness and our level of devotion. So, Krishna is non-different from His holy name, but for us to perceive that non-difference requires us to be at an attentive and devotional level of consciousness.
And, of course, even if somebody is not at an attentive and devotional level of consciousness, still, because that sound vibration is representing, in one way, Lord Krishna, is in one sense non-different from Lord Krishna, so it still has more power than any ordinary sound vibration. So, even if one does not have a devotional attitude, chanting Hare Krishna Mahamantra is better than chanting Abracadabra, or some other sound vibration, arbitrarily like that. So here, the idea is not that one needs to know the meaning, but more that one needs to have the bhava, bhava grahi janardana.
So when the bhava is not there, that non-difference is not fully manifested, it is not even partially manifested, it is fractionally manifested to us. Even that fractional manifestation has remarkable power. And all of us have experienced both the peace and the joy that comes by chanting, and how that can free us from lower drives, towards immoral pleasures.
So, we all have experienced the power of the Holy Name, and we will experience it more as we develop a devotional attitude more and more. So for us, the important thing is to recognise that we have to develop the right bhava. And the right bhava is developed not just by chanting attentively, but also by rendering seva, by assisting the Vaishnavas in the mission of Lord Krishna.
Because Krishna is a person, and as a person, we want to develop a relationship with Him. And when He is pleased with us, then He manifests as the Holy Name fully. And when He manifests Himself fully, then we experience the full power of the Holy Name.
At that time, even one utterance of the Holy Name. There are statements in the scriptures, like in the Puranas, it is said that नाम्नोहि आवताशक्ति पापं निर्हरणं हरे तावत कर्तों नशक्नोति पातकं पातकी नरहा That, नाम्नोहि आवती शक्ति That, in the Name there is so much power, that, पातकं पातकी नरहा That, even the most sinful of all sinful persons, तावत कर्तों नशक्नोति, he cannot do so much sins, as one utterance of the Holy Name can remove. Now, we may say that, I have uttered the Holy Name so many times, but still, I am not yet free from sin.
I am not free from the sinful reactions, nor am I free from the sinful mentality. That is because, not because the scriptural statement is wrong, or not even because the scriptural statement is an exaggeration. The scriptural statement is true, but there is a consciousness, there is a भाव, with which the Holy Name needs to be chanted, for us to experience the reality of this scriptural statement.
So, yes, I started off this explanation by saying that, God is absolute, and He has said something in the scripture, that I am non-different from the Holy Name, and He can make it happen. So, we accept at that simple level, and that is true, and I am coming to that conclusion now. But we have discussed elaborate philosophy about whether the power of sound is in the individual syllables, वर्णवात, or whether the power of sound is in the overall meaning, स्पोर्टवात.
So, we discussed स्वर and नाद, as examples for this, in the sound that is produced, or in the meaning that is understood, or we discussed about scientific formula, and scientific theoretical understanding, and we also differentiated between the concept of the sound itself being the supreme power beyond the gods. Now, this is true for the Devatas, but this is not true for the Supreme Lord. For the Supreme Lord, nothing is superior to Him.
Even sound is not superior to Him. Even the sound of His own holy names. So, the sound of His holy names is non-different from Him by His grace.
And when we invoke His grace by our devotional attitude and our devotional service, then we experience the non-difference of the holy name from Krishna, and we experience the full power of the holy name. That’s why, in our sadhana, we strive at two levels. At one level, we try to chant as attentively as possible, as strictly as possible.
And at another level, we also try to serve the devotees and develop a service attitude. And now, to some extent, the Vaishnava philosophy, which is the conclusion of the Vedic literature, incorporates all the various aspects of the Vedic teachings in their proper context, at the proper levels. So, Sphotavada, which indicates the power in the meaning, is also not rejected entirely.
Yes, Sphotavada cannot explain why the Hare Krishna Mahavantra is so powerful. But, we have the Srimad Bhagavatam, we have the Bhagavad Gita, and they are all filled with question answers. And the question answers indicate that yes, Parikshit Maharaj was hearing the Srimad Bhagavatam, because it was a purifying thing to do, and just the sound vibration would purify.
But still, he was attentively hearing the subject, and he was trying to comprehend the subject, and whenever things were not clear to him, he was asking questions. So, we have the precedent from Parikshit Maharaj in the Srimad Bhagavatam, from Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, that the Vedic message is not just to be heard for purification, it is also to be heard for understanding. Of course, we may not understand completely, but we try to understand to the best of our capacity.
And when we understand in this way, that deepens our conviction. So, just like, if I know the theory, then I can use the formula better. So, what we discuss now, of course, would be an example of Sphotavada.
So, Sphotavada is not wrong, it is also valid in our experience, and even within the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness at a particular level. But, Sphotavada does not explain the power of the Holy Name. Sphotavada helps us to understand the power of the Holy Name.
Srila Prabhupada wanted devotees to be philosophically sound, and solidly grounded intellectually in their understanding of the glory of the presence of Bhakti. That’s why he wrote so many books, and our previous Acharyas have written so many books. So, we accept the point that these books also have to be studied and understood properly.
And that also has its level. But, love is beyond understanding, love is beyond comprehension. Love for Krishna depends on our devotional attitude, and our being able to invoke Krishna’s pleasure and presence in our hearts and lives.
And in Hare Krishna Mahamantra, we can gain conviction by reading the books about it. So, that would be tapping into Sphotavada. Then, we can recite the Hare Krishna Mahamantra, whether we have the bhava or not, that would be tapping into the power of Varanavada, because the mantra itself has the power.
But beyond that, as we try to cultivate the bhava while chanting the Holy Names, then we will be experiencing Krishna’s presence, and the full glory and power of the Holy Name. And that will purify our hearts and help us develop an even more advanced and refined stage of love for Krishna.